ogra_cmpcevil udev :(00:01
Chipzzogra_cmpc: I guess the experiment failed?00:04
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ogra_cmpcChipzz, no, i didnt start it yet00:05
ogra_cmpci cant get wlan to work on the device i want to try it00:06
ogra_cmpcand the kernel is to old for newer udev00:06
ogra_cmpci'll try it as soon as i can00:06
SpamapSdebconf: DbDriver "config": /var/cache/debconf/config.dat is locked by another process: Resource temporarily unavailable00:07
ogra_cmpcbut udev and upstart are the ones that prevent me from using maverick on that machine00:07
SpamapSI have seen this in several bug reports over the past 2 months00:07
cjwatsonSpamapS: "some other package manager is running"00:08
cjwatsonplease don't reassign such bugs to debconf in any event.  I can't do anything with them there00:10
highvoltagecjwatson: regarding the installer name rename, I understand and agree :)00:12
ogra_cmpccjwatson, well, you could dump the processlist somewhere from debconf with that error :)00:12
highvoltageelmo: are there any actual real differences (from an ubuntu perspective) between amd64 and em64t?00:13
SpamapScjwatson: yes I think its doing its job.00:14
SpamapScjwatson: I just wonder if we shouldn't add a feature to *list* the lock holder.00:14
SpamapScjwatson: my guess is somebody is running apt-get while update manager is running in the background already.00:15
SpamapSbtw, the latest i386 mini.iso works great. ;)00:18
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highvoltagepitti: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ubuntu-font-family-sources/+bug/65072901:04
ubottuLaunchpad bug 650729 in ubuntu-font-family-sources (Ubuntu) "Ubuntu Font should support (at least some) Klingon" [Wishlist,New]01:04
RAOFHas lifeless been at the ubuntu-font bugtracker? :)01:12
lifelessRAOF: no01:40
lifelessRAOF: I added klingon for pitti/keybuk etc.01:40
lifelessRAOF: I don't speak/read it at all01:40
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lifelessRAOF: I just happen to be (sadly) familiar with the black hole that is i18n01:44
lifelesshaving found the skeletons01:44
wgrantWhy does the source package have '-sources' on the end?01:46
IDWMasterI'm working on porting some networking stuff for my business from windows to Ubuntu. It was originally written in .NET, so I was considering MonoDevelop; then I heard of KDevelop (C++), which also worked amazingly well. So I was wondering if anything is 'better' about using KDevelop or MonoDevelop as an IDE.02:15
IDWMasterIs there anything better about one or the other?02:17
psusiis there a channel specific to theme issues?  the new default theme in maverick apparently uses a dark color for the default window foreground color.... the gnome cpu frequency monitor applet seems to use this for its font when displaying on the pannel, which also has a dark background, making it impossible to read.  Is the applet using the wrong theme attribute, or is the theme broken?03:25
maxbHi, for a new upstream version update, if there are no Ubuntu specific changes, and it would normally be a Debian sync, except Debian's frozen, is it still appropriate to use -0ubuntu1 ?03:34
maxbOr, is this a case where it's reasonable to use -0build1, so the autosync happens automatically in natty?03:34
micahgmaxb: can it go into experimental?03:35
micahgyou can sync from there03:35
Sarvattmaxb: we just stick that stuff in experimental and sync from that for X stuff03:35
maxbexperimental is already occupied with an upstream beta03:35
Sarvatttoo slow! :)03:35
maxbpackage is bzr, ftr03:35
* micahg would think to use -0ubuntu1 and then file a sync bug when natty opens or the first version becomes available03:37
micahgmaxb: sid and squeeze have different versions, you can't upload to sid?03:42
RAOFNo.  Sid's reserved for things which should end up in Squeeze, and that's frozen.03:43
micahgRAOF: well, the package isn't migrating anyways and the versions are different03:43
maxbJelmer says sid and squeeze only have different versions because of a particularly unfortunate freeze timing, and doesn't want to compound the difference03:43
micahgsid has 2.2.0-1 and squeeze had 2.1.2-103:43
* micahg doesn't see the difference between 2.2.0 and 2.2.1 in sid at this point...03:44
hagabakaanyone op in #ubuntu? why am I banned?04:28
TheMusohagabaka: You should ask your questino in #ubuntu-ops I think.04:32
ScottKmaxb: Use -0ubuntu1 if it's not in Debian yet.04:34
pathogenhello, is anyone awake?05:25
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pathogenWell, I guess I'll wait until later05:26
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micahg!ask | pathogen05:44
ubottupathogen: Please don't ask to ask a question, simply ask the question (all on ONE line and in the channel, so that others can read and follow it easily). If anyone knows the answer they will most likely reply. :-)05:44
pathogenI'm just curious, but how will client side window handling affect things like kwin window tabbing?06:05
RAOFThey won't, unless kwin claims to support CSD.06:07
pathogenSo, what's the benefit of client side windows then? Other than being bale to skin themselves06:08
pathogen*being able06:09
RAOFYou mean “client side *decorations* ”, here.06:09
RAOFBoth GTK and Qt use client-side-windows already :)06:09
pathogenYes, so what's the benefit of using a client handled window decoration?06:09
RAOFOne benefit is that apps can skin themselves *consistently*06:10
pathogenit'll make window management a mess...06:10
RAOFApps are already able to skin themselves.  It's just a lot of effort to both skin yourself *and* be consistent with the rest of the desktop.06:10
pathogenWell, you say that apps will be able to skin themselves consistently, but in turn, there won't be a consistent theme of window decoration for all apps06:10
RAOFWhy not?06:11
RAOFApps can do this *right now* - Chromium does it, for example.06:11
pathogenIf you use emerald for example to skin your windows, the client side skinned ones will stand out06:11
pathogenmy point exactly06:11
pathogenchromium sticks out like a sore thumb06:11
RAOFSo, emerald doesn't set the “I support CSD” bit, and nothing uses it.06:11
RAOF(One of) the idea(s) of CSD is to allow apps to do something like Chromium but *without* sticking out like a sore thumb.06:12
pathogenSo, if using a window manager without the CSD bit, the application will still have full functionality?06:13
pathogenor will that be the app's developer's choice?06:13
RAOFPart of the app developer's choice.06:13
RAOFIt will mean that the *toolkit* (ie: GTK and Qt) won't draw the decorations.06:14
pathogenIs CSD being developed in qt right now?06:15
pathogenor is it just a gtk thing for the most part?06:15
RAOFI believe that Qt's been able to draw its own decorations forever.06:16
pathogenI see06:16
pathogenI guess there's not much of hope of consistency between qt's window drawing style and gtk's window drawing style06:17
RAOFActually, probably more so if GTK goes CSD - after all, Qt currently sets a QtGtkStyle, so GTK apps fit in nicely.06:19
pathogenI've tested that out for a while on my machine, but it was a bit buggy at times06:20
pathogenI've had a lot of success with qtcurve themes though06:20
hyperairthose are themes designed to look the same06:20
hyperairas in reimplemented using different engines06:20
pathogenbut it works very well06:21
hyperairof course it does.06:21
hyperairif you wish to reimplement every nice looking theme you have in both gtk+ and qt, i think you'll find that they all will work very well too.06:21
hyperairwhat's needed is the reverse of the gtk style in qt06:22
hyperairwhich makes qt apps look at home in GNOME.06:22
hyperairafaik there was an engine for gtk that rendered using qt306:22
hyperairand it worked pretty good06:22
pathogenah I see what you mean06:22
hyperairthen qt4 arrived, and the reverse happened06:22
pathogenFor a second I thought you were talking about making qt4 look like gtk06:23
hyperairnot that i'm complaining though, i'm a GNOME user.06:23
pathogeninstead of gtk look like qt406:23
pathogenI agree completely06:23
hyperairqt4 already looks like gtk with that engine =)06:23
hyperairnow gtk needs to look like at4.06:23
pathogenI have a lot of qt apps, more than gtk06:23
hyperairi have a lot of gtk apps, more than qt.06:24
pathogenmy gtk ones always look out of place06:24
hyperairit annoys me that kde themes are completely different, though06:24
hyperairas in i can't use KDE applications without some kind of hack to make them use the gtk theme06:24
pathogenYeah, I wish there was a universal theme engine06:24
* hyperair nods06:24
pathogenThe closest I can get so far is qtcurve06:25
hyperaireither way i've tried switching to KDE a few times in the past, and could never figure out where all the settings were06:25
hyperairat least GNOME's settings are in intuitive places06:25
pathogenall in one place06:25
hyperaireven if they're missing.06:25
pathogensystemsettigns in the terminal will give you all of the settings for kde06:26
hyperairyes i know06:26
hyperairthe problem is hunting for the setting you want *inside* systemsettings06:26
hyperairthey're all over the place06:26
pathogenHave you used any of the more recent kde builds?06:26
hyperairin fact, i haven't been able to find the kwin settings for ages06:26
hyperairno, i don't think so06:26
hyperairi use what's in lucid06:26
hyperairwhen maverick arrives i might give it another go06:27
pathogenThey've cleaned it up a LOT in the newest 4.5 release06:27
hyperairbut i hate amarok.06:27
hyperairamarok 1.4 was good06:27
hyperairamarok 2 was ¬_¬06:27
pathogen^ this06:27
pathogenYeah, I disliked amarok 2 for a long time06:27
hyperairbut banshee 1.x beats amarok 1.4 flat =p06:27
pathogenI still thing it has far too much bloat06:27
hyperairthe interface is weird.06:27
pathogennever used banshee06:27
hyperairyou should give it a go.06:28
hyperairit's a GNOME app though06:28
pathogenyou should try out clementine06:28
hyperairdoesn't look like it's in the ubuntu repository06:28
micahgdebian 57985906:29
ubottuDebian bug 579859 in wnpp "ITP: clementine -- Music player and library organizer" [Wishlist,Open] http://bugs.debian.org/57985906:29
pathogenI think it's already got debian packages ready to roll06:29
pathogenIt's basically a clone of amarok 1.4 written for qt406:30
hyperairi see06:30
pathogenit's not up to feature parity yet, but it's still pretty nice06:30
pathogenvery light, integrated with the new projectM, and quick database searches06:31
hyperairnow here's one thing i really don't like about amarok 1.4: there isn't really a specific playlists view06:31
hyperairi mean there isn't any proper separation between "entire library" and "playlist"06:31
hyperairso i had to maintain them separately06:31
pathogenwhat do you mean?06:32
hyperairand every time i changed the playlist, it took a long time to repopulate.06:32
hyperairtry using banshee, you'll get what i mean.06:32
pathogenWait, I think I know what you mean06:32
hyperairapart from that, amarok's searching was #1 at that time.06:32
pathogenI never really had a problem with that06:33
hyperairuntil banshee appeared06:33
pathogenYeah, I'm not wuite sure what the amarok devs were thinking when they made amarok 206:33
pathogenPretty much everyone aknowledged that amarok 1.x was the best linux music player06:34
hyperairuntil banshee 1.x came along06:34
hyperairi jumped ship at 0.98.106:34
pathogenwell, just installed it and it froze...06:34
hyperairbanshee 0.1x was nowhere near amarok 1.4, but banshee 1.x is great06:35
hyperairwhich version?06:35
hyperairfroze, i mean.06:35
hyperairright, that one has a bug regarding a race condition with dbus06:35
hyperairbetween some dbus and network thing06:35
hyperair1.7.5 is fine06:35
hyperairand 1.8.0 will be fine.06:35
hyperairin fact, 1.8.0 is due today06:36
pathogenwell, I'm running updates now so it should get fixed (I hope)06:36
pathogenhave you tried clementine yet?06:37
hyperairi might give it a go the next time i try kde406:37
hyperairwhich will be when i upgrade to maverick.06:37
pathogendo you not have any qt dependancies installed or something?06:37
hyperairi have.06:38
hyperairbut none of the -dev06:38
hyperairand i'm lazy to get those at the moment.06:38
pathogenyou don't have to build it06:38
pathogenit's already pre-built06:38
pathogeneven in a .deb06:38
hyperairbesieds, i have to get to packaging pdfmod, followed by libgpod and then banshee.06:38
hyperairit's more of a time constraints thing06:39
hyperairi've got a crapton of things to do, or i'll be spending time trying out compiz++ and posting backtraces06:39
pathogenI thought you really liked banshee?06:39
hyperairyes, i'm banshee's maintainer.06:39
pathogenwhy wouldn't you have it already XD06:40
hyperairbecause 1.8.0 hasn't been released?06:40
hyperairand it's due for release today?06:40
hyperairi think i mentioned this earlier ¬_¬06:40
pathogenI see06:40
hyperairbanshee 1.8.0 will require libgpod from git.06:41
hyperairbut libgpod is also getting released today06:41
pathogenon git?06:41
hyperairso i'll have to wait for that first06:41
hyperairno, it'll be released, as in 0.7.9506:41
pathogenoh I see06:41
pathogenSo is maintaining banshee something you do as a hobby, or is it your job?06:42
pathogenI'm just curious because I've always wanted to get involved in the FOSS scene, but didn't see how I could06:43
hyperairit's a hobby06:43
hyperairand also my starting point towards becoming an ubuntu developer06:44
pathogenSo, what does maintaining a project like banshee entail?06:45
TheMusohyperair: I assume at this point banshee 1.8 is not going into maverick, given main frozen, libgpod in main, etc.06:45
hyperairmore like maintaining the package.06:45
hyperairTheMuso: err oh crap, i forgot that.06:46
micahghyperair: banshee is still in universe06:46
pathogenSo you download the releases, compile them for various architectures, and then submit them to the repository?06:46
hyperairmicahg: but libgpod needs tobe updated.06:46
hyperairpathogen: no, i download the release, prepare the source package, and upload to ubuntu. it gets built for different architectures there06:46
pathogenOh, I see06:46
pathogenWhat usually has to be done to prepare the source?06:47
hyperairTheMuso: could we get a freeze exception for that, i wonder.06:47
TheMusohyperair: Given libgpod is on the Ubuntu CD, and given we are frozen for RC, and given that the absolute minimum amount of changes are generally made between RC and final, doubtful.06:48
TheMusoI could be wrong though.06:48
RAOFAnother option would be to 0-day SRU it.06:48
* hyperair sighs. it's always a rush during finalfreeze06:48
TheMusoYeah there is that...06:49
pathogenwhat is a 0-day SRU?06:49
RAOFAn update that's ready to go on release day.06:49
pathogenOh, I see06:49
RAOFBecause respinning/retesting the CDs is a significant effort.06:49
hyperairmaybe i could take that path.06:50
pathogenSo instead of adding it to the cd, you just make it a zero day update06:50
hyperairLaney, directhex: what do you think?06:50
* RAOF wishes mesa also had a “absolute minimum changes after RC” policy.06:50
TheMusoRAOF: heh06:50
ajmitchRAOF: that takes all the fun out of life06:50
RAOFIt was looking so good, too!06:50
RAOFThere were just a couple of commits since our very-nearly-RC1 snapshot.06:51
TheMusoRAOF: But is mesa on a timed release schedule?06:51
RAOFIt's expected to release on December 4.06:51
RAOF*October* 406:52
ajmitchI was going to say... :)06:52
pathogenmesa is a graphics library for X?06:52
hyperairit's where all our 3d drivers are06:52
RAOFAnd, of course, the best thing to do post RC1 is to pull in the Sandybridge driver.06:52
pathogenI see06:53
TheMusoahem, lovely.06:53
RAOFBecause practically *nobody* has hardware driven by i965_dri.so :(06:54
ajmitchnew driver, or major changes to the existing driver?06:54
pathogenI do06:54
RAOFChanges to the existing driver.06:54
micahgo/ as well06:54
ajmitchRAOF: that don't sound very RC-worthy :P06:55
hyperairRAOF: what! i do!06:55
TheMusoI can't stop laughing about it hear actually, its certainly not RC worthy in my book.06:55
pathogenbasically everyone here has that hardware06:55
RAOFmicahg, ajmitch: Hush.  Everyone knows that intel's GPUs are only aimed at a tiny niche audience :06:55
hyperairthose who want battery life?06:55
pathogenI can feel the sarcasm oozing from your text06:55
ajmitchof course, I don't have any current hardware with intel drivers, so they can't be that important :)06:56
TheMusoAfaik sandybridge is not really out in the wild yet.06:56
RAOFIndeed it is not.06:56
TheMusoSo it could have waited.06:56
ajmitchbut in 6 months time it may be06:56
StevenKThose who only want static images on their screens. :-P06:56
pathogenBeleive it or not, my intel architecture and gpu has lasted very well through the years06:56
ajmitchi915 is a little underpowered for gaming though :)06:57
pathogenWill a little elbow grease, I can make it play even the newest games06:57
* micahg is guessing the new GPU support is making Flash better on Maverick even in powersave mode06:57
pathogenat fairly acceptable framerates too :D06:57
hyperairajmitch: hey i play games with my intel chip.06:57
StevenKpathogen: No fair if you're doing the GL transforms on paper06:57
ajmitchhyperair: nethack doesn't count06:57
TheMusoto both comments06:57
hyperairajmitch: lol. i play touhou =p06:57
hyperairajmitch: but my intel chip has a tendency to send my machine into spurious hangs that eventually result in hanging the ethernet chip06:58
hyperairi have no idea what connection there is between a graphics and ethernet chip, but somehow it succeeds.06:58
hyperairrmmod and modprobe again won't work. the only thing that works is suspending and resuming06:58
* ajmitch has the joys of using fglrx still06:58
hyperairor of course, a complete shutdown06:58
StevenKajmitch: Ewwww06:58
TheMusohyperair: I am surprised even that works.06:59
pathogenusing the compiz cube would randomly lock up my desktop 3 years ago06:59
hyperairTheMuso: which one?06:59
* StevenK hugs his GeForce, and then treats the burn06:59
ajmitchStevenK: yeah, it's not exactly easy to figure out why resuming often makes everything dog slow :)06:59
TheMusoSuspending and resuming.06:59
RAOFStevenK: Sizzle!06:59
hyperairTheMuso: yeah i was pretty surprised too.06:59
* TheMuso thought a shutdown would be the only way to clear it.06:59
* hyperair shrugs06:59
hyperairif i suspend and resume, then wait, say 15 minutes, i can game for another hour06:59
RAOFThe GPU does get fully shut down on suspend then reinitialised on resume, so it's possible.07:00
pathogenHas anyone got a compaq presario cq60 laptop?07:00
TheMusoRAOF: ah ok, makes more sense.07:00
RAOFPerhaps more surprising is that you can actually suspend at all ;)07:00
* micahg is guessing that's why apport shows 127 apport GPU crashes on resume :)07:00
hyperairRAOF: but what about the ethernet chip?07:00
pathogenThe laptop always hangs when suspending to the hard drive...07:00
RAOFhyperair: The GPU can scribble on arbitrary memory!07:00
hyperairRAOF: ...oh crap.07:01
hyperairpathogen: that's a feature.07:01
RAOFDoesn't _that_ make you feel safer with WebGL? :)07:01
pathogenhyperair: riiiiiiiight....07:01
hyperairRAOF: wtf is webgl? D=07:02
ajmitchRAOF: who needs their data anyway?07:02
pathogenwebgl is fairly cool07:02
ajmitchhyperair: the ability to play quake in the browser07:02
pathogenit allows a webpage to run script in opengl using your gpu07:02
RAOFhyperair: Pretty much what it says on the box: OpenGL for web clients.07:02
hyperairpathogen: yep, it's meant to spread the word that suspend-to-disk is a dumb concept and people should focus their efforts on making suspend-to-ram better.07:02
hyperairRAOF: heh lol =p07:02
pathogenMy old acer sapire could run for days while suspended07:03
hyperairso if the gpu can scribble on arbitrary memory, how come my apps aren't segfaulting?07:03
pathogenI was inpressed07:03
hyperairand only the transmission portion of my tg3 card hangs?07:03
hyperairreceiving still works07:03
RAOFhyperair: Probably because that's not the issue.  Or because your GPU has a bug which deterministically scribbles on a specific part of your ethernet card's MMIO space?07:04
* hyperair groans07:04
hyperairthen shouldn't rmmod and modprobe reinitialize the card?07:04
RAOFNot if the state is broken.07:05
pathogenthey reinitialize the kernel drivers07:05
RAOFI guess it could be possible for the GPU to be in a state the driver doesn't know how to recover from, but doesn't break suspend.07:05
pathogenbut, the problem prolly exists on the hardware level07:05
pathogenin that case, power cycling fixes it07:06
hyperairor suspend/resume =p07:06
pathogenperhaps, perhaps depending on the architecture of the computer07:07
hyperairin my case, graphics works, it's just the ethernet portion that hangs07:07
pathogenpretty strange07:07
pathogenWell, I'm off to bed07:07
hyperairhappy sleeping07:07
pathogenI shall!07:08
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pittiGood morning07:45
pittihighvoltage: heh07:45
TheMusoMorning pitti.07:47
pittihey TheMuso07:48
RAOFHowdie pitti.07:56
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dholbachgood morning08:43
=== spike_ is now known as spikeWRK
pooliepitti: i'm seeking your further advice on bug 63693009:09
ubottuLaunchpad bug 636930 in Launchpad Bazaar Integration "Upgrading a repository fails with 'Inter1and2Helper' object has no attribute 'source_repo'" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/63693009:09
pooliecan we kick off an SRU from the 2.2.1 microrelease there?09:09
pittipoolie: we can, yes09:09
pittipoolie: a few days ago we were still open for last-minute changes, but now it needs to become an SRU, I'm afraid09:09
pooliethat's ok09:10
pooliewill it be on hold until after 10/10, or can that happen in parallel with the release?09:11
pittipoolie: it can be uploaded before09:12
pittipoolie: the queue is open, but we won't accept it until very near the release09:12
pooliebit of a shame we didn't hit that, but it's better not to rush09:13
poolieso what do we need to do now to get it into that queue?09:13
pittipoolie: just uploading it, with making sure that the changelog refers to all bugs, etc.09:15
pittittx: wrt bug 650893, I suppose you don't have dbus installed on server, right?09:19
ubottuLaunchpad bug 650893 in cups (Ubuntu Maverick) "[maverick] cups does not start at boot time" [High,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/65089309:19
pittiso I guess I'll again hit the wall of how to specify weak dependencies in "start on" clauses09:20
pittislangasek: would something like this work for "start after dbus if present"?09:22
pitti... and (started dbus or runlevel [2345]) and ..09:22
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smbcjwatson, Its not really a big issue but has the option to set an apt proxy at installation time to be used for the downloads been dropped consciously or was it more a side effect. Or should I have read some installation notes which would have explained it to me where things have gone?09:25
seb128bdrung_, hi09:25
pittittx: I sent a proposed upstart script to the bug, would be awesome if you could test it09:25
seb128bdrung_, why did you start the discussion about the sponsoring process on -discuss? It's probably a list that most concerned people don't read if they are busy09:26
ttxpitti: I'll reinstall one "print server" now09:31
bdrung_seb128: because 'discuss' was in the name. where should i have send the mail?09:33
=== doko_ is now known as doko
pooliepitti: i'm not sure if maxb can upload it to proposed(?), could you do it if he can't?09:35
seb128bdrung_, not sure, it might be right for getting opinions but u-d might be better to get the process changed or replies from people doing sponsoring09:36
pittipoolie: upload permissions aren't pocket specific; so anyone who can upload to devel can upload to proposed as well09:36
bdrung_seb128: or ubuntu-motu?09:38
seb128bdrung_, it's likely not everybody is reading the motu list09:39
seb128bdrung_, I guess busy people only read u-d, not sure if you want feedback from everybody though09:39
persiabdrung_, u-d is likely best.  u-m is mostly interesting only when there's something that only affects MOTU.  u-d-d is for coordination between developers and users (this would be mostly between developers)09:40
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sorenWow. Looking at https://edge.launchpad.net/builders makes me feel like uploading something :)09:45
pittibefore they get too bored09:45
pittiopen natty! open natty!09:46
Hobbsee"is natty open yet?"09:46
persiaSo, I know we have a more streamlined process, but I believe we still have to complete each release before we can open the next one.09:47
StevenKIt was going to be opened in 2 hours, but now that you've asked, it's 3.09:47
\shsed -i "s/maverick/natty/" /etc/apt/sources.list ; apt-get update ; apt-get dist-upgrade09:47
persiaBut there's lots of other stuff that needs building.  Anyone run `apt-cache -i unmet` recently?09:47
persiaStevenK, You already fixed Soyuz so we can start asking this early, and only pay a 1-hour delay?09:48
\shpersia: and as scottk proposed: http://qa.ubuntuwire.com/bugs/rcbugs/09:48
pittiStevenK: oh, I thought it wouldn't even be possible as long as maverick is still open?09:48
StevenKpersia: No, I was trying to make a joke that references the releaseparty deley09:48
persiaStevenK, It was a good joke.  Please fix Soyuz so that you can tease us like that.09:49
Hobbseehah.  now you've been told!09:49
* StevenK goes back to writing bugs09:50
\shpersia: and not forgetting the list of FTBFS packages...still in bad shape09:51
cjwatsonsmb: text or graphical installer?09:52
smbcjwatson, Personally I only saw the Kubuntu graphical and the alternate text installer, but cking said he did not remember seeing that option in the Ubuntu graphical installer either.09:53
cjwatsonsmb: I was kind of hoping for a single answer09:54
smbcjwatson, "all" ?09:54
=== oSoMoN_ is now known as oSoMoN
ttxpitti: tested, works, commented on the bug09:54
* ttx is about to leave to catch a train09:55
pittittx: yippie09:55
* pitti commits09:55
cjwatsonsmb: nothing has changed regarding the proxy option in the text installer, as far as I know09:55
cjwatsonsmb: for the graphical installer, you would have to ask ev09:55
ttxpitti: for post-RC, or do you think we should trigger a respin for that ?09:56
ttxDaviey: about to leave, any question ?09:56
pittittx: that's a question for you really, but my gut feeling is that post RC is sufficient, with a  release note09:56
ttxpitti: that's my feeling too.09:56
smbcjwatson, ok, let me pay closer attention on it for the text installer, maybe I just missed it. Will have a look at the graphical again as well and talk to ev09:56
evsmb: it's not exposed in the UI anymore.09:57
evfor the graphical installer09:57
ttxif anything else comes up that warrants a respin, then we can catch that one in it09:57
smbev, Ah ok, so its a grub commandline I could test?09:57
ttxDaviey ^09:57
smbttx, sorry09:57
cjwatsoncan't possibly be a grub command line09:57
cjwatsongiven that the live CD doesn't boot using grub09:57
evI think he means kernel command line preseeding09:58
smbright, just that grub happens the place you enter it most of the time.09:58
cjwatsonindeed, I'm just nitpicking :)09:58
evsmb: mirror/http/proxy=true09:58
evshould do it09:58
cjwatsonoh, yes, indeed :)09:59
evclearly not enough coffee in my et09:59
cjwatsonnot that form though09:59
cjwatson The proxy information should be given in the standard form of09:59
cjwatson "http://[[user][:pass]@]host[:port]/".09:59
smbsimple and clear. :-P09:59
Davieyttx: nope!10:00
Davieyttx: Have fun :)10:00
smbev, Do we mention option in the release notes? (asked by the person notoriously forgetting to read them)10:02
ttxDaviey: ok, back in ~4hours10:02
evsmb: yeah, definitely10:04
=== diwic is now known as diwic_afk
bdrung_dholbach: you are back?10:18
dholbachbdrung_, yes10:19
dholbachbdrung_, got back yesterday afternoon10:19
bdrung_welcome back dholbach10:19
dholbachthanks bdrung_10:19
corecodehow do i use bzr correctly with the packages?10:21
corecodeshould i always commit before i build?10:21
corecodebecause now i have a lot of changes that were caused by debuild10:22
cjwatsonif you have a package that applies patches during the build, you can always 'debuild clean' before committing10:29
cjwatsonwhether to commit before building is mostly a matter of taste - it does mean that you're committing something you haven't tested yet10:30
tumbleweedbut you can always uncommit. I've run into some issues where if you don't commit, bzr bd builds with files that should have been deleted (bzr rm)10:31
cjwatsonthat's only bzr bd10:33
cjwatson(and should be filed as a bug on bzr-builddeb, IMO)10:33
=== diwic_afk is now known as diwic
tumbleweedcjwatson: yeah, I need to do that10:35
YokoZarmicahg: were you able to do anything with Profile-Guided Firefox this cycle?10:58
chrisccoulsonYokoZar, no, but i'm working on that for next cycle11:00
YokoZarchrisccoulson: does firefox build with a .mozconfig yet or is it still a bunch of command switches in the build script?11:01
YokoZarchrisccoulson: sorry for not doing it myself this cycle I know I hinted I would at UDS11:01
chrisccoulsonYokoZar, no mozconfig11:01
YokoZarchrisccoulson: That should be the path forward then, as once you use the mozconfig file building with PGO is a switch11:02
chrisccoulsonYokoZar, yeah, i know ;)11:02
chrisccoulsonbut it's not just a straight switch to a mozconfig, as we have lots of logic to determine our build flags11:03
* YokoZar is a bit amazed Firefox performance wasn't a major priority for us years ago...11:03
YokoZarchrisccoulson: Yeah, I got about half way going into UDS-maverick before I got distracted with real life ;)11:03
chrisccoulsonwell, mozilla are working hard to make PGO work, but it's not straightforward.11:03
chrisccoulsonit doesn't work well at all with GCC < 4.511:03
YokoZarFair enough11:03
chrisccoulsonso, unless we use that version next cycle, PGO is a non-starter ;)11:04
YokoZarWell we ship GCC 4.5 in maverick, nothing wrong with building Firefox against it ;)11:04
chrisccoulsonwell, the version we ship will be using the standard toolchain ;)11:04
pittichrisccoulson: I don't see anything wrong with building with 4.5?11:05
chrisccoulsonpitti - oh, well, if that's the case ;)11:05
pitti... in natty (not proposing to switch now in maverick :) )11:05
chrisccoulsonpitti - anyway, there are some bugs in GCC4.5 which break optimisation in firefox11:05
chrisccoulsoneg http://gcc.gnu.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=4562311:06
ubottugcc.gnu.org bug 45623 in tree-optimization "[4.5 Regression] GCC 4.5.[01] breaks our ffi on Linux64. ABI break?" [Normal,Resolved: fixed]11:06
YokoZarchrisccoulson: you mean fixed in 4.5 yes?11:07
chrisccoulsoni don't think it's fixed in the version we have, but i'd need to check11:07
chrisccoulsonseeing as it was only fixed a few days ago11:07
YokoZaroh so a newer point release of 4.511:08
chrisccoulsoni really need another machine to do builds on :(11:09
=== diwic is now known as diwic_afk
davmor2mvo, pitti:  I'm using Hardware Drivers to install the B43 Driver and I got SystemError: installArchives() failed.11:24
mvodavmor2: anything that looks like a error  in /var/log/apt/term.log  (the last few lines)?11:25
davmor2pitti: also the STA driver seems to of mysteriously stopped connecting on maverick but lucids does connect correctly :(11:25
davmor2mvo: all I got is Log started: date time and Log ended: Date time11:28
pittidavmor2: anything in /var/log/jockey.log?11:30
pittidavmor2: I just installed UNE on my mini 10, which auto-installed wl11:30
pitti(which works fine)11:30
davmor2pitti: mine is a compaq mini 110 and on network-manager said there were no firmware drivers.  I installed the STA like I normally do and it sees the router it just won't connect.11:32
davmor2pitti: apport has just woken up and given me an error so I'll send that report11:34
davmor2pitti: bug 65101011:40
ubottuLaunchpad bug 651010 in b43-fwcutter (Ubuntu) "package firmware-b43-installer failed to install/upgrade: subprocess installed post-installation script returned error exit status 1" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/65101011:40
pittidavmor2: hm, what an useless dpkg log :( http://launchpadlibrarian.net/56733878/DpkgTerminalLog.txt11:41
pittidavmor2: if you do sudo dpkg --configure -a, what do you see?11:41
davmor2pitti: Not support low-power chip with PCI id 14e3:4315!   that could be the clincher :)11:43
pittihm, and yet the modalias claims to support it? bad b4311:44
pittiI seriously consider to just drop the b43 handler for good11:44
pittiit seems to cause nothing but trouble, and STA is generally better11:44
davmor2pitti: I've added the full info to the bug.   I'll try the sta driver again is there anyway I can get the debug info from N-M to get some decent info for you guys?11:47
pittiprobably a quetion for Mathieu11:49
pittidavmor2: but /var/log/daemon.log should already get quite far11:49
davmor2pitti: thanks :)11:49
dpmhey pitti. Do we have to discuss when the final full language export should be requested in LP? Arne tended to do it around 22:00 UTC on the day of the translation deadline, so I was thinking of just doing that.11:55
pittidpm: I already requested the full export; it shoudl be produced today, right?11:55
pittidpm: I'd like to prepare and test them tomorrow, so that they can build right after RC11:55
dpmpitti, no, the translations deadline is tomorrow11:55
pittidpm: but then the next export would only be on Sunday11:56
\shhmmm...a question to our famous gtk specialist: should libgdk-pixbuf-2.0 ship an .la file or not?11:56
dpmpitti, I guess we should have discussed that before. Translators look at the schedule and think they can still translate until tomorrow11:57
\sh(which should normally be in the -dev package of the lib)11:57
pittidpm: "until today" would be better, I think, otherwise we have zero margin for a rebuild11:57
pitti\sh: we try to get rid of those beasties as much as we can11:58
\shpitti: so I have to further patch ginspector to not use it11:58
pitti\sh: how does it use a .la file?11:59
dpmpitti, ok, that would be a good compromise, but next cycle we should look at putting the LanguagePackDeadline on the schedule on a day we can actually request the export with enough time11:59
pittidpm: *nod*; on a Wed or Sun would make sense, to align with the days when the exports actually happen11:59
pitti\sh: but usually the .la files need to be cleaned up from top to bottom, i. e. I'd expect GTK to be one of the last packages to drop it12:00
\shpitti: I just wonder, because libgtk2.0-dev ships as well an .la12:00
pittitop/bottom in the dependency tree, I mea12:00
* pitti defers to seb12812:01
\shpitti: I'm just trying to fight the ftbfs of ginspector...12:01
=== diwic_afk is now known as diwic
dpmpitti, ah, just a question. Why is it a problem that the next export is on Sunday? When requesting a full export, the export is produced straight away, isn't it? (well, not straight away, but just the time it takes to create the tarball)12:02
dpmso that does not have anything to do with the Sunday's export12:02
pittidpm: oh, I understood that differently12:03
pittidpm: I thought marking this checkbox means "the next time you create a langapck", not "do an extracurricular export NOW NOW NOW"12:04
pittiI flipped it on two days ago, and https://translations.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/maverick/+language-packs has a full export from today12:04
pittiso I guess the export starts very early on Wed/Sun, not late12:04
pittiand the langpacks are then built late in a day, to allow some slack12:04
dpmpitti, let me check with danilo12:05
ScottKdpm: If you look at http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/testing/maverick_probs.html there are a number of -kde- language packs listed as uninstallable.  I checked and they are all missing updates to the underlying language-pack-foo  in the last export.  Are those going to be OK this last time around?12:17
=== cking is now known as cking-afk
cjwatsonScottK: yes12:18
ScottKcjwatson: Thanks.12:19
cjwatson(checked this a few days ago)12:19
=== tkamppeter_ is now known as tkamppeter
=== badipod is now known as ldunn
=== MacSlow is now known as MacSlow|lunch
cjwatsonlool: qemu-kvm is currently listed in Packages-arch-specific as amd64 and i386 only.  Apparently nobody noticed since it built fine on armel and powerpc in lucid.  A test-build on kakadu shows that it currently fails to build on armel (http://paste.ubuntu.com/502586/).  Do you care?12:42
cjwatsonogra: ^- ditto12:43
cjwatsonthat failure is apparently in arm-specific assembly code12:44
ogracjwatson, well, no clue if it runs, feel free to remove it from PAS12:47
ograthen we could actually try :)12:47
cjwatsonwell, as I say it certainly doesn't build12:47
cjwatsonbuild on powerpc is still going but looking healthier12:48
ograoh, sorry i misread12:48
* ogra is in 10 conversations simultaneously12:48
ograthen better leave it in PAS until natty :) unless linaro wants to do some last minute debugging here12:49
cjwatsonwell, it's NBS.  If I leave it in P-a-s, then I have to remove the stale binary since there's no matching source for it12:51
* cjwatson grabs a vaguely current ARM ARM to see what the constraints on rndd and friends should be12:57
loolcjwatson: I did bring this up with the server team a while ago; Debian has qemu / qemu-kvm and added qemu-kvm to Pas recently13:02
loolcjwatson: I do care just a bit, but it's not terribly important really13:03
loolI just hate that we have no qemu builds on armel, while Debian builds "qemu" on all arches13:03
cjwatsonwhat would the consequences of removing the arm binaries be?13:03
cjwatsonit might not be that hard to fix this code ..13:03
loolcjwatson: Pretty much no consequence I would think13:03
cjwatsonI guess I'm worried about lurking build-deps and the like13:04
loolI really can't think of any, but I didn't grep13:04
loolIn the future, kvm will be used on armel, but that's still far off13:04
seb128does anybody know what translation file has the ubiquity string "retrieving files n of n (<time> remaining)"13:04
cjwatsonthere are several deps/build-deps13:04
cjwatsoneven on armel13:05
cjwatsonthey might not work - I guess I'm reluctant to make those uninstallable at this point13:05
cjwatsonseb128: apt13:06
seb128cjwatson, thanks13:06
cjwatsonmsgid "Retrieving file %li of %li (%s remaining)"13:06
cjwatsonmsgstr "Téléchargement du fichier %li sur %li (%s restant)"13:06
seb128I'm wondering why the RC image doesn't have those in french13:06
cjwatsonif you're not seeing it translated, I don't know why ...13:06
seb128well the french langpacks are not on the iso13:07
cjwatsonlocale not copied to target at the point when it's running or something?13:07
cjwatsonlangpack shouldn't matter13:07
cjwatsonapt is excluded from langpacks since it's needed before they're installed13:07
loolcjwatson: I poked the rdepends of qemu, kvm, and qemu-kvm, and I see nothing critical for armel in there; most of the time, the packages are used on x86 desktops13:07
loolhmm grub build-deps on qemu13:07
cjwatsonlool: right, but since my aim is archive consistency I'm a bit scared of something that would make things worse in some sense13:07
cjwatsongrub doesn't build on armel13:08
cjwatsonwell, I'll look into this constraints error and see if it's easy to fix13:08
cjwatsonif it is then I'll just fix it13:08
cjwatsonif it isn't, I'll drop the binaries13:08
loolcjwatson: I tihkn I remember this13:09
loolcjwatson: It's very old code13:09
loolcjwatson: I think this is for an older FPU than VFP13:09
cjwatsonit's particularly odd since I don't see the code in upstream git13:09
loolcjwatson: I definitely remember patching out this code in the past already13:09
cjwatsonassuming I'm using the right git repository since there are millions of the things13:10
cjwatson"rndd" is not mentioned in the current ARM ARM13:10
dpmseb128, this seems to have been fixed in bug 644736 (see the strings in the duplicate). Perhaps the translations have not yet been exported from LP?13:10
ubottuLaunchpad bug 644736 in Ubuntu Translations "Untranslatable messages in the installer (dup-of: 646109)" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/64473613:10
ubottuLaunchpad bug 646109 in Ubuntu Translations "Translations not loaded for some messages during installation in Ubiquity" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/64610913:10
loolshit, the fact that the fpu is called maverick doesn't help google it13:10
Riddelldholbach: steven kelly moved his slot from friday to tomorrow in https://wiki.kubuntu.org/UbuntuAppDeveloperWeek13:10
dholbachakgraner, ^13:11
loolcjwatson: But if you just patch out the arm specific code, that part will definitely build with the C implementation13:11
cjwatsonqemu-kvm builds fine on powerpc, so we can deal with that at least13:11
dholbachthanks Riddell13:11
cjwatsonlool: ok, I'll give it a try, thanks13:11
akgranerdholbach, Riddell I'll make that change - thanks for the heads up :-)13:11
seb128dpm, I doubt those translations are new they should be in the current export13:12
cjwatsonlool: would anyone be able to test that it's not completely broken if I did this?13:12
seb128dpm, apt didn't get an upload for a week13:12
seb128dpm, did you notice the same issue in spanish?13:13
bilalakhtardholbach: Welcome back!13:13
jibeldpm, seb128, I'm testing a wubi upgrade from 10.04.1 and the problem also exists during installation of 10.04.113:13
dpmseb128, I use Catalan, but yes, I noticed it too :). If they come from apt, could it be that they need to be exported and put in the package?13:14
dpmduring install translations are not in language packs13:14
seb128dpm, cf what cjwatson said before, apt is not in langpacks because it's used before those are installed13:15
seb128in fact apt-all.mo is in langpacks13:15
seb128but the string is translated in the mo according to msgunfmt13:15
dpmseb128, does the string come perhaps from somewhere else? libapt-pkg or such?13:16
seb128dpm, it's in apt-all.mo on the disk and translated13:16
cjwatsonthe whole apt source package is supposed to be blacklisted from langpack stripping13:17
cjwatsonI think it's more likely that the locale isn't set up properly ...13:18
cjwatson(could be wrong, it would just be my first hypothesis)13:18
ftapitti, what makes apport create a crash file or not? i just had milter-greylist crashing in all my ubuntu boxes at the same time, but no crash file in any of them :(13:19
seb128dpm, I guess it's worth reopening that ubiquity bug or opening a new one13:19
seb128cjwatson, thanks13:19
loolcjwatson: qemu-kvm 0.12.3-0ubuntu2:13:22
lool  * New patch, arm-host-fix-compiler-warning, drops __arm__ specific code13:22
lool    which was probably FPA specific (certainly not ARM/VFP) and was dropped13:22
lool    upstream in bc4347b883e8175dadef77ed9e02ccaa5e8eba94; helps build on13:22
lool    armel.13:22
YokoZarAnyone with main upload rights feel like sponsoring a pretty trivial change?13:34
ubottuLaunchpad bug 351429 in file-roller (Ubuntu) "file-roller associates itself with windows executables that it can't handle" [Low,Triaged]13:35
dpmseb128, ok, I've unduplicated bug 644736 and added a comment.13:35
ubottuLaunchpad bug 644736 in Ubuntu Translations "Untranslatable messages in the installer" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/64473613:35
seb128dpm, thanks13:35
cjwatsonlool: aha!  thanks, will resurrect13:36
cjwatsonjust waiting for the testbuild13:36
hyperairis it possible to ship in a new upstream release of libgpod at this point?13:38
hyperairseb128: ^13:38
seb128not really13:39
seb128depends of the change I guess, if that's a one liner fix for a blocker issue13:39
hyperairunfortunately it's a lot more than a one-liner13:39
seb128otherwise better to SRU it13:39
seb128no way for that diffstat13:39
seb128it will be a SRU in best case for this cycle13:40
hyperairhas ubuntu-sru opened up for SRU applications yet?13:40
seb128usually uploads work already yes13:41
seb128but nothing stop you to do the update and the bug work, add the debdiff etc13:41
seb128then try to upload and if that doesn't work just keep the update to upload later13:41
hyperairoh okay13:41
loolcjwatson: I was expecting to find the problematic code in qemu-kvm.git, at least in the 0.12 branch, but I did not; not sure why really13:41
hyperairseb128: don't SRUs need to be already fixed in ubuntu+1, though?13:42
seb128hyperair, no13:43
hyperairokay then.13:43
* hyperair remembers reading something of taht sort in a wiki page13:43
seb128when the version are the same the sru is pocket copied13:43
hyperairah okay.13:43
seb128well sometime it help to have testing on the unstable version13:43
seb128but you should rather make sure it lands in the next unstable as well13:43
seb128in practice when the version didn't change yet we pocket copy the sru to it13:43
seb128it's less work for everybody13:44
dpmpitti, re: when the full export happens you were right - ticking the box in LP marks them to be exported on the next scheduled day13:54
dpmI've updated the exports schedule to include info on when the language pack builds happen:13:54
dpm    https://dev.launchpad.net/Translations/LanguagePackSchedule13:54
=== MacSlow|lunch is now known as MacSlow
pittidpm: nice, thank you13:55
dpmnp :)13:55
dpmpitti, Considering that RCs are on Thursdays (the other milestones I guess are not that critical for language packs), I think the schedule is ok -> language pack exports on Tuesdays (and ready on Wed)13:55
dpmI think the only thing that we should consider next cycle is to move the LanguagePackDeadline 2 days before to match the exports schedule.13:55
dpmWhat do you think?13:55
pittidpm: so I'm currently considering using today's export (0929) for the final langpacks13:56
pittinext Sunday gets pretty tight13:56
pittiif they will work well, we have enough time, but if they fail, we are screwed13:57
dpmpitti, yeah, that's fine. I understand that there is no other way for this cycle13:57
dpmI'll let translators know.13:57
pittidpm: as usual we can do a first SRU a few weeks after release, whenever it's suitable13:58
dpmpitti, sure, that sounds good, my question is also what you think about moving the LanguagePackDeadline day in future releases to an earlier date ^13:58
pittidpm: I agree; Tuesday before the RC sounds appropriate13:59
dpmok thanks pitti13:59
pittithanks dpm!13:59
pittidpm: I'll start the langpack builds now14:01
Riddellpitti: why can't an export be done tomorrow?14:02
pittiRiddell: because the Great Gods of Launchpad's third commandment says "Maverick language packs are creates on Tuesdays and Saturdays"14:02
pittiRiddell: well, it can probably be done, but with some extra manual effort14:03
Riddellwell seems the extra effort, launchpad are ment to do what we need them to do after all14:03
pittiRiddell: we can locally build the Saturday export and use it if they work, but I'd like to have today's export as a fallback at least14:04
Riddellas it is the translations I imported today because I was following the schedule won't get in and that'll annoy upstream lots14:04
pittidpm: do you know if/how it's possible to schedule an exra run?14:05
Riddellakgraner: are there any edited logs for app developer week?14:05
JFoasac, mind taking a look at https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/649357 ?14:09
ubottuLaunchpad bug 649357 in network-manager (Ubuntu) "network-manager on une will not connect" [Undecided,New]14:09
dpmpitti, it's a cron job in LP, so I can ask the LP devs to ask LOSAs to schedule a one-off run I guess. Let me ask danilo. I'll be back in a few mins14:11
dpmRiddell, ^14:11
asacJFo: not time this week. talk to cyphermox or ask seb128 who is looking into those this cycle14:12
dpmpitti, Riddell, if that were possible, when should this next one-off export be started?14:12
pittidpm: from my POV, tonight would be good14:12
Riddelldpm: whenever you told the translators the deadline was14:13
cyphermoxJFo, already noticed it this morning; I was hoping to get my hands on a similar system to test it (I definitely didn't see this on my netbook)14:13
pittithat was today, no?14:13
Riddelldpm: but mostly after the .pos I uploaded are imported :)14:13
cyphermoxasac, ^^14:13
asaccyphermox: what chipset?14:16
JFocyphermox, cool14:20
=== zyga is now known as zyga-cold
cjwatsonlool: qemu> apparently applied upstream as bc4347b883e8175dadef77ed9e02ccaa5e8eba94.  no idea why it's not in our package.14:25
cyphermoxasac: may be specific to Broadcom, or even STA :/14:25
cjwatson(test-build still running but looks a lot better)14:25
cyphermoxasac, mine is an aspire one ZG5, so atheros, iirc.14:26
persiacjwatson, Dunno about armel, but I have an interest in KVM/powerpc (and have added a few patches here and there for it), so I'd rather it wasn't P-a-s'd14:27
cjwatsonpersia: right, I'll definitely be un-P-a-s-ing it on powerpc at least14:29
persiaThanks.  Still a little shaky in maverick, but I'm fairly confident we'll have everything but the bootloader working in natty (still need to find a way around not being able to build arch:all packages on powerpc)14:30
cjwatsonyou could use grub214:31
cjwatsonit probably needs minor fixes but we'd welcome them14:32
persiaheh.  I'll take a look.  If that's easier than convincing Soyuz to build openfirmware, it may be the way to go.14:32
cjwatsonI have heard that it works on Debian, modulo some glitches with prefix (http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=597538)14:33
ubottuDebian bug 597538 in grub-ieee1275 "grub-ieee1275: grub-install needs to pass a --prefix option to grub-mkimage" [Important,Open]14:33
cjwatsonand grub-installer would need to be taught about it14:34
slangasekpitti: why would you OR the dbus with 'runlevel'?  dbus is not guaranteed to be started before entering the runlevel, it races in parallel14:34
cjwatsonbut those are relatively superficial things14:34
persiaThat's very promising.  I'll definitely take a deeper look at that, rather than fussing with openfirmware (especially since dropping sparc means there is only one package left that would need the Soyuz hack)14:35
asaccyphermox: ok... bc is still painful i guess :/14:35
loolcjwatson: It's simply not fixed in the stable-0.12 branch; only in qemu-kvm master14:36
pittislangasek: I understood that "runlevel 2345" is started later in the game, so to push it out a little bit14:36
cjwatsonpersia: why was openfirmware needed anyway?  I don't remember that being needed for yaboot14:36
cjwatsonpersia: which powerpc subarch are we talking about here?14:36
cjwatsonlool: ah, ok14:37
lool(I was looking at the wrong file when I checked stable-0.12 earlier; I checked softfloat.c instead of softfloat-native.c)14:37
slangasekpitti: a) it's racy, b) you've or'ed it so the only effect it could have is to start your job sooner rather than later...?14:37
pittislangasek: but I'm open to other suggestions; just the smbd story has taught me that weak dependencies aren't really working with current upstart methods14:37
loolcjwatson: Were you able to build with that bugfix alone?14:37
cjwatsonlool: I'll tell you when kakadu finishes with it ...14:37
cjwatsonit's certainly got well past that failure14:37
pittislangasek: the effect is to start it at all on servers14:37
loolPoor kakadu14:37
pittislangasek: since we don't have dbus on servers14:38
dpmRiddell, pitti. I've just spoken to danilo. A one-off full langpack export can be arranged, we just have to decide on the date, which should probably be today or tomorrow. I'd be up for tomorrow, as that was the date on the maverick schedule, but you guys know best if that would be too tight or not. Riddell, as per checking whether the files you uploaded have been imported, you can do it here: https://translations.edge.launchpad.net/~jr/+imports?field.f14:38
dpmilter_status=all&field.filter_extension=po - they don't seem to have been yet. So what date should I tell danilo to start the export?14:38
cjwatsonpersia: (oh, wait, is openfirmware not a package name?  I mean I know it's what the firmware implementation is called, but I don't know quite which particular Soyuz hack you mean ...)14:38
slangasekpitti: er, if it starts fine w/o dbus, why 'start on dbus' at all then?14:38
pittislangasek: well, it starts without dbus, but then jobs aren't broadcast14:38
pittislangasek: i. e. if dbus is installed, I want cups to start after it14:39
cjwatsonso do the same thing as with samba?14:39
pittiso the "or runlevel" was the best hack I could come up with14:39
cjwatsonSIGHUP dbus, or whatever makes it deal14:39
pitticjwatson: that would mean to sighup cups when dbus starts14:39
slangasekpitti: it's not a very reliable hack14:39
pittislangasek: I know14:39
cjwatsonok, the other way round.  isn't that fine too?14:39
cjwatsonconditional start is not something you can do in upstart14:40
cjwatsonall the available hacks, as far as I know, make things worse14:40
cjwatsonsending signals doesn't generally make things worse, if it's supported14:40
pittibut at least not worse than in lucid14:40
pittiinit.d scripts were also started on runlevel [2345] in essence14:40
cjwatsonif we're changing it in maverick then IMO we should do it right14:40
cjwatsonwe're just storing up future really really confusing bugs for ourselves otherwise14:41
pitticjwatson: right, but so far I don't know what "right" is14:41
persiacjwatson, last I looked, we had OF implementations for both PPC and Sparc, but they have to be built on their target architectures, and the binaries are arch:all (for use with qemu), so...14:41
pittiwe need a weak dependency like "should-start:" or "on starting" (which doesn't work for practical scenarios)14:41
cjwatsonpersia: oh, I thought you were still talking about the boot loader14:41
cjwatsonpitti: what's wrong with notifying cups when dbus starts?14:42
persiaSoyuz hack would be to add some way to hint to Soyuz that a certain source needs to be built on a certain arch, and still allow it to produce arch:all binaries.14:42
cjwatsonpersia: right, I just wasn't sure of the particular package name.  now I know that you're talking about qemu not about the boot loader, it makes more sense14:42
pitticjwatson: telling dbus about all services that can support dbus and should be restarted doesn't sound like the "right" solution to me14:42
persiaOF *is* a bootloader (among other things).  As you indicate, switching to grub2 would make everything easier.14:42
pittithat's just backwards14:42
cjwatsongrub2 on powerpc needs open firmware14:43
persiacjwatson, I'm talking about a bootloader to use with qemu :)14:43
cjwatsonpitti: well, you *don't have* weak dependencies14:43
persiaOh :(14:43
cjwatsonlooking for them is going to make things worse14:43
persiaSo for KVM, I still need a first-stage bootloader (as grub2 will only handle second stage).  Well, might be natty.  might be natty+1.  Anyway, the binaries from Debian work.14:43
persiaCurrent source packages seem to be "openbios-sparc" and "openbios-ppc" ("openhackware" was an old one, as well as some using "openfirmware" in their names)14:44
cjwatsonI'd still like to switch to grub2 for actual powerpc installations14:44
cjwatsonbut not having a working powerpc right now makes it hard to drive that14:44
YokoZarcjwatson: new icoutils uploaded (in queue atm)14:45
cjwatsonok, thanks14:45
persiacjwatson, Would you find yourself more productive with a working powerpc?14:46
pitticjwatson: we can certainly formulate the conditions in a strong dependency, but then we need an additional state property "service foo exists"14:47
cjwatsonpitti: this is all a next-version-of-upstart thing14:47
pitticjwatson: oh, good to hear14:47
cjwatsonbut right now, you don't have it14:47
pittiso, "dbus or runlevel" should be what we had in lucid14:47
cjwatsonpersia: differently productive.  I would probably get less of the work I'm supposed to do done ...14:47
pittiand we hacked around the problem with cups and smbd, so for maverick it should be okay14:48
persiacjwatson, heh.  OK.  I'll keep that in mind :)14:48
cjwatsonmvo: is bug 650525 happening due to the RT ticket you filed?15:02
ubottuLaunchpad bug 650525 in ubuntu-extras-keyring (Ubuntu) "Failed to fetch http://extras.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/dists/maverick/Release ; missing key" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/65052515:02
cjwatsonmvo: I thought we shipped the key text so that we didn't have to rely on fetching the key from the network, though, so not quite getting it15:03
mvocjwatson: the RT is for the software-center, this one is different, let me look15:03
YokoZarmvo: btw, now that software center does its initial apt-get update on first open, the number of incidences of valid apt:// links not working due to "package not found" should reduce (though still possible if someone clicks an apturl link before opening software center or running update manager on a fresh install)15:05
mvoYokoZar: yep15:06
YokoZarmvo: I have a suspicion gnome-codec-install might be affected similarly (I think it breaks when no apt-get update was yet run)15:06
YokoZarhopefully someone runs software center before they poke around their movie files or look up howtos ;)15:07
YokoZarpart of me wonders if it would be reasonable to ship a (even slightly out of date) universe packages list on the install15:08
mvoYokoZar: there is a open bug about it iirc, but the additional disk space on the live cd has been a problem15:10
mvoYokoZar: the first apt-get update cron job will heal it15:10
mvoYokoZar: in the case of gnome-codec-install I vaguely remember there was code that detects misisng universe and offers to update, but I may mis remember15:11
persiaIsn't there some stuff that gnome-codec-install requests that isn't suitable for being on images?15:11
YokoZarmvo: missing universe is different from never having run update (I think that code is way back when universe was unticked by default)15:11
YokoZarpersia: err yeah I guess multiverse package list too15:11
YokoZarpersia: but a package list is different from a package ;)15:12
persiaAh, true.  Although I still have reservations about multiverse :)15:12
mvoYokoZar: right, I just tested and its clever enough to notice that there is stuff in sources.list but the data in /var/lib/apt/liss is not there15:16
mvoYokoZar: I vaguely remember I added that code at some point15:16
YokoZarso maybe it's just apt-url that's the problem then15:16
mvovery possible15:17
james_wjibel: very useful, thanks15:44
james_wjibel: I now have a much better idea of where the problem is, but no idea for a fix yet15:44
jibeljames_w, you're welcome. If you had an idea for the fix but no idea where the problem is, that would be a problem.15:45
james_wjibel: well, that's what I was trying before :-)15:46
jibeljames_w, don't hesitate if you need to try something else.15:47
micahgYokoZar: no, but it's scheduled for next cycle15:47
dpm[15:38] <dpm> Riddell, pitti. I've just spoken to danilo. A one-off full langpack export can be arranged, we just have to decide on the date, which should probably be today or tomorrow. I'd be up for tomorrow, as that was the date on the maverick schedule, but you guys know best if that would be too tight or not. Riddell, as per checking whether the files you uploaded have been imported, you can do it here: https://translations.edge.launchpad.net/~jr/+i15:51
dpm ilter_status=all&field.filter_extension=po - they don't seem to have been yet. So what date should I tell danilo to start the export?15:51
dpmRiddell, pitti, in case you haven't seen the question earlier on: if you could look at the question whenever you've got time, I can then ask Danilo to schedule the export ^^15:51
pittidpm: whenever the KDE translations are finished, I guess15:52
dpmpitti, but in case they take really long to import and we cannot wait for them to finish, what would be the latest date for the full export request and to make sure there is room for a rebuild if there are any issues with the langpacks. Tomorrow?15:56
pittidpm: tomorrow evening, I think15:57
pittithe buildds will be crammed with "OMGrightafterRC" builds, put the langpacks on top of that, and we'll have a large enough backlog already15:58
dpmpitti, ok thanks. I'll watch the KDE translations and make the request for tomorrow evening the latest if they are not imported yet - Riddell it would really help me if you could tell me which translations you uploaded, or if you could keep an eye on them yourself as well16:00
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Riddelldpm: I uploaded the ones I e-mailed you about last night16:25
ogragrrr upstart16:26
Guest23154hi all im probably in the wrong channel but i guessed someone in here would be bale to tell me whats needed to build 32 efls for linux on a 64 bit ubuntu. thanks16:32
cjwatsonmvo: the timestamp on /etc/apt/trusted.gpg is the time when ubuntu-keyring was installed (11:01) rather than the time when ubuntu-extras-keyring was installed (11:11)16:32
cjwatsonsuggests that the ubuntu-extras-keyring package isn't doing what it claims to do16:33
cjwatsonno obvious reason why it shouldn't, though, from looking at apt-key16:35
james_wjibel: http://paste.ubuntu.com/502692/ is my latest guess, I've just pushed it to my PPA. If you could test that would be great16:36
jibeljames_w, this test machine is currently ... testing isos. I'll be able to try that this evening or tomorrow morning.16:38
james_wjibel: ok, thanks16:38
james_wif anyone else sees the bug where the policykit password dialog loses the textbox and then hangs, I would appreciate your feedback16:39
james_wbug 649939 has the details16:39
ubottuLaunchpad bug 649939 in software-center (Ubuntu) "authentication popup does nothing when installating new software" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/64993916:39
mvocjwatson: indeed, what is odd is that the "OK" comes from apt-key, I will see if I can run the build livefs image script and reproduce it wit hthat16:40
cjwatsonmvo: I'm trying that now16:41
cjwatsonI have a local mirror so it shouldn't take forever16:42
cjwatsonmvo: (I'm shoving 'set -x' into apt-key after debootstrap)16:48
mvoexcellent, that should solve the puzzle16:50
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jjardonHello, is there any possiblity to ship pygobject 2.26 in maverick? It's the only supported python bindings supported upstream17:57
jjardonPyGTK apps are recommended to switch to PyGObject18:00
SpamapSshould iso's from 20100928 still say "development branch" in the issue/motd/etc ?18:20
persiaSpamapS, Most certainly.18:22
SpamapSjust verifying that while doing iso testing.18:22
persiaThat usually changes just before the final candidates, when the name is removed, and the number added.18:23
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dokobdrung_: ping19:00
bdrung_doko: pong19:01
dokoa lot of the audacious plugins fail to build19:01
dokohmm, no all that I did give back19:02
dokoaudacious-dumb g15daemon-audacious imms upse xmp19:03
bdrung_not again...19:03
bdrung_i start disliking audacious...19:04
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dokobdrung_: all but one is missing/moved header file19:05
keesbarry: can I pick your brain (or other python superstars) on a quick "how to I make this shorter?" puzzle: http://paste.ubuntu.com/502757/19:06
keesif it we C I'd use an inline conditional19:07
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kklimondakees: http://paste.ubuntu.com/502763/ - you save over 20 characters! ;)19:15
kklimondaalmost 30.. ;)19:15
keesoh, I didn't know you could do a conditional like that. nice!19:16
mterryjcastro, is there some wiki documentation on how to run a good ubuntu-classroom session?  Like how to use ClassBot, how to get Lernid to see a session's slides(?), that sort of thing.19:57
mterryjcastro, ah, just found it.  Classroom on the wiki19:58
jcastroI find that reading logs of other people's sessions are useful19:58
jcastrohttps://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuOpenWeek <-- top right there are years of session logs19:59
uni4dfxcan someone patch the Radiance theme? there's a very simple mistake in metacity-theme-1.xml20:02
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uni4dfxanyone? it's a 1-character mistake20:07
mterryuni4dfx, file a bug?  "ubuntu-bug light-themes"20:10
uni4dfxmterry you know nothing is going to happen if i file a bug20:11
uni4dfxthey're gonna dump the theme before they get to it20:11
uni4dfxand it's 3 seconds of work to fix it20:11
uni4dfxeven if i submit a patch, they won't even look at it20:12
mterryuni4dfx, that's a depressing attitude.  :)  Bugs are how ubuntu developers track and fix things, even trivial ones.  Doesn't mean it will get fixed faster, but it helps it get fixed at all20:12
micahguni4dfx: we have a patch review team now that tries to get to the patches20:12
uni4dfxSo if I submit a patch can it be applied before Maverick is out?20:13
mterryuni4dfx, it's pretty tight schedule wise.  depends on how severe the bug is.  If it doesn't make it, it can be released as an update20:13
uni4dfxmterry it's a bug that can be fixed by changing 1 character in an xml file20:14
mterryuni4dfx, right, but that doesn't mean it's a severe bug.  Like a bug that crashes everyone's desktop will probably be squeezed in, but a bug that just means the wrong color of purple was used somewhere will probably just be released as an update20:15
micahgthe why examples are appropriate now as well: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/StableReleaseUpdates#Why20:16
uni4dfxwell that's like saying we're going to spend 6 months fixing 2 bugs and screw the rest that actually have patches committed20:17
dokosiretart: ping20:17
siretartdoko: hi20:18
dokosiretart: https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/odin/1.8.1-2build1/+build/192159720:18
dokois ffmpeg/altivec built with -fPIC?20:19
dokoI love builds which don't show compiler flags ...20:19
mterryuni4dfx, my advice is still to file a bug with the patch20:20
siretartdoes powerpc accept shared library builds without -fPIC at all?20:20
uni4dfxmterry on it20:21
siretartoh, yeah, I see what you mean20:22
siretartdoko: I'm pretty sure that it is, and I need to switch off this obfuscation for natty, right20:22
dokosiretart: how do you turn it on? VERBOSE=1 doesn't work too well20:41
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lex79slangasek: can you look at this bug 262679 please? it's there since jaunty21:20
ubottuLaunchpad bug 262679 in EasyPeasy Overview "eeepc-acpi-scripts is not installable" [Low,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/26267921:21
lex79basically eeepc-acpi-scripts depends on acpi-support-base which is not in archive21:21
pntanyone running 10.04 that can help me confirm a bug in scanf?21:22
persiapnt, We typically coordinate that sort of thing on #ubuntu-bugs21:22
* ogra_ac found the right kernel tree for the ac100 to build modules \o/21:24
ogra_acand its still usable even with running make -j2 in the background21:25
izzytempWhere is the information stored in the panel. When it becomes customized, where do the customizations go?21:27
izzytempI put some stuff there and I would like to be able to transfer it to other machines21:28
slangaseklex79: frankly, that package needs a lot more help to be properly integrated in Ubuntu than just fixing a dependency21:30
lex79slangasek: but that package shouldn't be in archive imho21:31
lex79for now I mean21:31
slangasekwell, we can remove it and blacklist it from being synced from Debian, sure21:31
lex79it just make confusion on users21:31
slangaseklex79: subscribed ubuntu-archive to bug #328989; I don't have time to process it just this moment21:33
ubottuLaunchpad bug 328989 in eeepc-acpi-scripts (Ubuntu) "eeepc-acpi-scripts package should be removed" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/32898921:33
lex79slangasek: ok21:33
yofelpitti: can you merge https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~yofel/apport/lp-590521/+merge/37069 ? typo fix22:27
ogra_acdoes anyone else have a weird experience going to people.c.c ?22:47
ogra_aci get an advertisement22:48
ogra_acThis domain may be for sale. Buy this Domain22:48
* ajmitch doesn't22:48
ajmitchnice typo? :)22:48
ogra_aci should learn to type22:48
asacbug 642792 feels really nasty. anyone knows if there was an explicit decision made this cycle to change that?22:53
ubottuLaunchpad bug 642792 in metacity (Ubuntu) "ALT+PrtSc not recognised" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/64279222:53
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persiaasac, That's an extra-hard one: it's about contention between kernel and GNOME.22:58
asacpersia: what i want to understand where the change resulting in this regression was decided ;)22:59
asacand ensure that that discussion involved all the right parties22:59
persiaI don't believe there was such an explicit decision.23:00
asacthen it needs to be changed back23:00
asacor fixed23:00
asacalt-print cannot be changed without an explicit decision imo ... at least not from the kernel side23:01
persiaasac, So, which bit needs to be "changed back"?  the kernel, or GNOME?23:07
asacpersia: i assume the kernel changed this cycle23:08
asacgnome didnt change23:08
asacwhatever changed this cycle needs to be changed back ;) ... at least the default setting of gnome was not touched23:08
ogra_acasac, just use your digital camera23:15
hallyncjwatson: kirkland suggested i should be talking to you...  i've got two cases where lucid will do the right thing with external disks, and maverick won't (last tested last weekend).  the first, using cryptsetup, i opened a bug for a long time ago23:17
asacogra_ac: actually i tried changing it to something else in keybindings preference and now i cannot change it back because its not recognized as any key-combo at all; in short: i am all set :-P23:17
hallyncjwatson: the other, is an iomega drive, not encrypted, 1 partition, which automounts under lucid, but (same laptop) in maverick fdisk -l says something about bogus sectors23:17
hallyncjwatson: alas the drives and laptop are at home, and i'm out for the week, so i can't give details right now23:17
asacogra_ac: so according to that bug if you disable sysrq the key combo is recognized as "Alt-SysRq" rather than "Alt-Print" in gnome23:18
asacogra_ac: what do you think changed that would cause this?23:19
persiaDepends on the keyboard, really.23:19
asackernel? gtk? keymaps?23:19
ogra_ackernely or keymaps i'd say23:19
asacpersia: does it work for you? ;)23:19
persiaasac, "work" how?23:19
asacpersia: press alt+print ... and see if you get a screenshot of current window23:20
persiaThe answer is "sometimes".23:20
asacare you running maverick?23:20
persiaDepends whether I use my German or Japanese keyboard (both are connected)23:20
asacso its german keyboard only?23:20
persiaGerman keyboard works.  Japanese keyboard works only if I press Alt+SysRq twice in a row quickly enough23:21
hallynjjohansen: kees: cjwatson: btw, bug #622762 was the one i originally openedd for the first issue23:21
ubottuLaunchpad bug 622762 in cryptsetup "encrypted partition works in lucid, not maverick" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/62276223:21
asachmm. my german keyboard does not work23:21
persia(where "works" means I get the screenshot popup)23:21
asacpersia: and a screenshot of window rather than full root window?23:21
asacogra_ac: does it work for you?23:21
persiaasac, I don't think it's the layout of the keyboards, but rather how they encode SysRq.  the Japanese keyboard is Logitech and the German keyboard is Cherry23:22
ogra_acasac, i cant find the print key23:22
asacomg :-P23:22
asacogra_ac: its often somewhere at the top ;)23:23
ogra_aci know :P23:23
ogra_acthis thing has an android adjusted kbd23:23
persiaasac, Strangely, when I tried to reproduce, I ended up with a stuck ALT key until reseting *both* keyboards simultaneously (plug events)23:24
* persia concludes Alt*SysRq behaviour is determinisitic in far too complicated a manner23:25
ogra_acasac, i dont use an ubuntu kernel, but nothing happens if i hit alt+print23:25
ogra_ac(german keymap though)23:25
ogra_acprint alone gets me a desktop shot23:25
asacdoes not really help us much ;)23:27
* asac out23:30

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