[01:10] <LaserJock> ok, so does anybody know if it's possible to remove packages (at least binaries) from stable releases?
[01:11] <jpds> I doubt it personally.
[01:11] <jpds> wgrant: ↑
[01:11] <LaserJock> back in the day it was not possible, but I wondered if in the age of soyuzy scripty goodies it was maybe possible
[01:12] <jpds> I wouldn't want something that is technically frozen to start changing.
[01:12] <ScottK> LaserJock: I think the best practice where that's advisable for other than legal reasons is to SRU an empty package.
[01:14] <LaserJock> ScottK: k, that's what I was thinking, but I thought I'd check
[01:14] <ajmitch> that should at least effectively get rid of the package on users' systems as long as they have updates enabled (who doesn't?)
[01:15] <LaserJock> this is my (in)famous Multiverse package, that the company finally wants to get rid of
[01:15] <ScottK> If they don't, they've earned whatever they get.
[01:15] <LaserJock> they don't mind an empty package, I just thought it'd be easier if there was a button to push :-)
[01:15] <persia> That's probably best practice even when it's for legal reasons.
[01:15] <persia> (although there might be an interim chmod 0 whilst the update is pending)
[01:16] <LaserJock> wow, must be good time of the night, I got ajmitch, ScottK, and persia
[01:16] <persia> LaserJock, Issue with button-push is that you break every single Packages file for every single user.  Remember that people never expect to redownload the base set (only -updates, -security, etc.)
[01:17] <persia> If the user counts expressed are correct, that ends up being something like 40 petabytes of load on the Canonical DC.
[01:17] <ajmitch> LaserJock: it's because of daylight saving time :)
[01:17] <persia> (for removal of a universe package: make your own estimates and math for other Packages*)
[01:18] <LaserJock> ohhh, right, because you'd have to change the main archive packages, good point
[01:18] <ajmitch> uploading a package that overrides it is the only way I know of to be sure you'll get rid of the package on systems where it's already installed
[01:19] <persia> That doesn't make sure, for the -security, -updates, etc. users anyway.
[01:19] <persia> But it does mean most folk won't have it.
[01:20] <persia> chmod +0 is the other alternative (when there are very strong reasons to stop distribution), which just causes 403 errors.
[01:20] <LaserJock> hmm
[01:20] <LaserJock> if somebody does an upgrade will they get -updates?
[01:20] <persia> LaserJock, chmod+0 requires invocation of about 15 people to approve it, and *lots* of paperwork.
[01:21] <ajmitch> updates has been enabled by default for quite awhile
[01:21] <LaserJock> k
[01:21] <persia> Depends on how one upgrades.  upgrade-manager will enable -updates, update everything, and then switch sources.list.  Other ways are more likely to vary based on user behaviour.
[01:21] <LaserJock> I think the major reason for removal is that the package tends to break upgrades
[01:22] <LaserJock> so obviously an empty package is only going to help people who upgrade with -updates
[01:22]  * ScottK just downloaded updated chromium-browser debs of chromium-browser.  It feels almost cannabilistic.
[01:22] <LaserJock> lol
[01:26] <ScottK> fta: Works great.  Please upload.
[01:31] <ajmitch> LaserJock: have you got the package removed from maverick yet?
[01:31]  * ajmitch can't remember if it was in there or not
[01:35] <LaserJock> ajmitch: yep, Riddell got rid of it for me
[01:35] <LaserJock> so that's good
[01:35] <LaserJock> now I'm trying to advise upstream
[01:35] <LaserJock> they decided to put an empty .deb up in the bug report this evening
[01:35] <LaserJock> so I may need to get my hands dirty :/
[01:35] <ajmitch> heh
[04:15] <wgrant> LP will refuse to update the release pocket Packages files.
[04:16] <wgrant> There are about a dozen guards at various levels to stop it from making changes to the Release pocket.
[04:22] <persia> This is a vastly good thing.
[04:24] <wgrant> Indeed.
[04:24] <wgrant> Since bugs have let some publications through a couple of those layers...
[04:25] <persia> Oh my.  That must have been exciting.
[04:26] <persia> Would it actually saturate the DC for a week to update the universe Packages file, or would there be a way to restore it if it ever happened?
[04:27] <wgrant> Backups are good.
[04:27] <ajmitch> it'd depend on how often people would run apt-get update
[04:27] <persia> Oh, heh, I meant from LP, but yeah, I suppose that would work (and might get applied quickly)
[04:28] <persia> ajmitch, By default, every install runs once a week or so.  Given bandwidth rumours that happen around release times, and rumours of user numbers, I'm not sure that even with a perfectly flat distribution there wouldn't be issues.
[04:28] <wgrant> persia: Once a week? Isn't it daily?
[04:28] <persia> Mind you, it's just the once that the update would have to be pulled, but...
[04:29] <wgrant> Non-security updates are only installed once a week.
[04:29] <wgrant> But indices are updated daily, AIUI.
[04:29] <ajmitch> persia: & how many use mirrors?
[04:30] <ajmitch> I'm sure dapper-updates's Packages file is only a fraction of the size, but it'd be interesting to see the bandwidth usage from something like that
[04:30] <persia> dail;y means nobody would ever finish, even at >85% mirror usage (assuming my wild guesses have any relation to reality)
[04:32] <ajmitch> as a comparison, hardy-updates'
[04:32] <ajmitch> hardy-updates's Packazges.gz for main is 625kB
[04:33] <wgrant> persia: The default is daily.
[04:33] <persia> ajmitch, maverick/universe is 28MB
[04:34] <persia> Since my wild guess was 2MB, only one tenth the users need to try to break things, or the DC can have ten times the bandwidth I assumed.
[04:34] <persia> So, yeah.  Bad.
[04:34] <ajmitch> persia: that must be uncompressed, I'm looking at the .gz file
[04:35] <ajmitch> so hardy-updates for main is about 10% of the size of lucid universe's Packages.gz
[04:35] <wgrant> And what about bz2?
[04:35] <ajmitch> not much different
[04:35] <wgrant> :(
[04:35] <ajmitch> 486k compared to 625k
[04:36] <wgrant> In my optimised publisher, bzip2 compression takes most of the time.
[04:36] <ajmitch> enough to matter, but that could still be a fair bit of data being downloaded each day
[04:36] <persia> Packages.bz2 : 5.5M Packages.gz: 7.1M so I still didn't guess high enough, but at least within the correct order of magnitude.
[04:36] <persia> (assuming base-10, etc.)
[04:36] <ajmitch> wgrant: you're saving about 20% with bzip2 by the look of things
[06:12] <AnAnt> Hello, what is the process to backport a package to Lucid ?
[06:26] <RAOF> !backports | AnAnt
[06:29] <AnAnt> RAOF: thanks, the package is actually foo2zjs, the maverick package adds support for printers that weren't supported into lucid. So now my question will be: should I try to get that into -updates or -backports ?
[06:30] <RAOF> If it's possible to get into -updates, that's where it should go.
[06:30] <RAOF> Whether it's possible to get there depends on how alarming the changes required are.
[06:33] <AnAnt> it's a new upstream release
[06:34] <RAOF> For which the answer is *generally* “no”, but is not necessarily so.
[06:39] <persia> AnAnt, If you haven't yet, you might want to coordinate with tkamppeter
[06:40] <AnAnt> persia: is that a package or a person ?
[06:42] <nigelb> that's probably a person :)
[06:42] <persia> AnAnt, person.  Tends to do most of the printer package management.
[06:42] <AnAnt> ok
[06:42] <AnAnt> thanks
[06:43] <AnAnt> persia: btw, still no hope that this OpenJDK sound problem be fixed in maverick ?
[06:43] <persia> AnAnt, I don't know of anyone working on it.  Do you?
[06:43] <AnAnt> no
[06:44] <persia> Well, it's unlikely to get fixed unless someone works on it :)
[07:39] <dholbach> good morning
[07:39] <ajmitch> morning dholbach
[07:39] <AnAnt> dholbach: welcome back
[07:39] <nigelb> 2
[07:40] <dholbach> hey ajmitch, hey AnAnt
[14:26] <ari-tczew> dholbach: ping
[14:28] <dholbach> ari-tczew, pong
[14:29] <ari-tczew> dholbach: what do you think about split components on sponsoring overview? bug 629210
[14:29] <dholbach> ari-tczew, you can sort by component already
[14:29] <dholbach> ari-tczew, but I'm not opposed if somebody writes a patch
[14:29] <dholbach> I'm too busy to do it myself right now
[14:30] <dholbach> Harvest will make this easier once it's deployed
[14:30] <ari-tczew> dholbach: how can I sort?
[14:31] <dholbach> click on the top of the table
[14:31] <ari-tczew> bdrung_: maybe you can patch it? ^^
[14:31] <dholbach> ok, I need to go for a bit
[14:31] <dholbach> bbl
[14:31] <dholbach> sorry, not component, packageset
[14:31] <dholbach> in any case bbl
[14:32] <bdrung_> ari-tczew: do you want a column component?
[14:32] <bdrung_> ari-tczew: gimme 10 mins ;)
[14:32] <Laney> what you really want is "stuff I can upload"
[14:32] <ari-tczew> bdrung_: thanks :)
[14:33] <bdrung_> Laney: this is not easy to implement with a static page
[14:34] <Laney> sure
[14:38] <bdrung_> ari-tczew: changes made. now i have to test if it works.
[14:39] <bdrung_> ari-tczew: 5 mins to make the change, 10 mins to run the script * number of bugs introduces
[14:47] <ari-tczew> bdrung_: ok :) awesome
[14:51] <ari-tczew> bdrung_: what do you think about separate a table: main and second table: universe
[14:52] <bdrung_> ari-tczew: do we really need that? why not sort the table?
[14:52] <ari-tczew> bdrung_: for looking better. it's only my suggestion :)
[14:53] <tumbleweed> random thoughts: we already have a few too many columns. I was thinking having different row background colours or something, but one can't sort on that
[14:54] <ari-tczew> tumbleweed: then I suggest to replace current 'Origin' column with 'Component'
[14:55] <tumbleweed> ari-tczew: that's probably useful to MOTUs but not to Desktop / server / xubuntu etc team members
[14:55] <ari-tczew> and what about columns 'Status' and 'Importance'? necessary?
[14:56] <tumbleweed> personally I don't find them that necessary, but I'm sure busy core-devs do (how else do they pick one to sponsor). Lots of columns could be reduced to a single character, though (debbugs style)
[14:57] <bdrung_> my idea was to split the script into two parts: one to fetch the data (needs ~10 mins) and the second part that generates the web page. the multiple pages: one with all, one for every team, ...
[14:57] <tumbleweed> bdrung_: works for me :)
[14:58] <tumbleweed> (I don't know how anyone does any development on that script, given the long runtime and sensitivity to network stability)
[14:58] <ari-tczew> merge-o-matic needs some love btw :)
[15:05] <bilalakhtar> Where can I find the M-o-M source?
[15:07] <paissad_> hi all
[15:08] <bilalakhtar> ah, got it
[15:09] <paissad_> which of the chans is for packages developing support ? here or #ubuntu-devel ?
[15:10] <bilalakhtar> paissad_: both, and #ubuntu-packaging as well
[15:10] <paissad_> ok thanks
[15:10] <paissad_> well, i have this warning during packaging --> out-of-date-standards-version 3.8.4 (current is 3.9.1)
[15:11] <ScottK> paissad_: Don't worry about it.
[15:11] <paissad_> "apt-cache policy debian-policy" shows me 3.8.4 at most !
[15:11] <paissad_> ScottK, i prefer avoid warnings as much as i can ^^
[15:11] <paissad_> we never know
[15:12] <ScottK> paissad_: Then you could change the standards version in debian/control, but also check debian policy to make sure you make other needed changes to the package.  Generally if a package is also in Debian, we don't change the standards version.
[15:14] <ScottK> paissad_: 3.9.1 is in Maverick, not Lucid.
[15:14] <paissad_> oh i see
[15:15] <paissad_> so i should upgrade to Maverick beta 1st .. but i'm scared
[15:17] <ScottK> No, you can also read the current debian policy on the debian web site.
[15:17] <ari-tczew> bilalakhtar: http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-core-dev/merge-o-matic/trunk/changes
[15:18] <bilalakhtar> ari-tczew: I got it
[15:55] <bdrung_> ari-tczew: http://people.ubuntu.com/~bdrung/sponsoring/
[15:58] <ari-tczew> bdrung_: Nothing new here. Go to http://reports.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/sponsoring/  instead.
[15:58] <bdrung_> ari-tczew: refresh the page. i just updated it.
[16:00] <ari-tczew> bdrung_: nice! thanks. I'm still convinced to remove 'Origin' column.
[16:02] <Laney> shouldn't the summary be more important (left) than that?
[16:03] <ari-tczew> Laney: summary?
[16:03] <Laney> the right most column
[16:03] <bdrung_> Laney: please suggest an order
[16:04] <ari-tczew> I'm abstained for this.
[16:04] <Laney> next to the bug number I guess
[16:04] <Laney> you could maybe even merge the two
[16:04] <Laney> summary text (bug number)
[16:05] <Laney> It's just that on my monitor which has a reasonably low resoltion this column is off the side
[16:06] <bdrung_> Laney: next to the 'item' column?
[16:06] <Laney> bdrung_: yes
[16:10] <ari-tczew> bdrung_: do you have a permissions to uploading m-o-m branch?
[16:10] <bdrung_> ari-tczew: dunno
[16:10] <bdrung_> ari-tczew: where is the branch?
[16:10] <ari-tczew> bdrung_: ubuntu-core-dev
[16:11] <bdrung_> ari-tczew: then i have
[16:12] <ari-tczew> bdrung_: are you interested in tweaking m-o-m?
[16:12] <ari-tczew> there are some patches proposed
[16:12] <bdrung_> ari-tczew: give me the links, i may look at them (if i find the time for it)
[16:13] <ari-tczew> bdrung_: https://code.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-core-dev/merge-o-matic/trunk
[16:14] <ari-tczew> bdrung_: I'm very interested to test RainCT changes. how can I run it using ftp @ people.ubuntu.com like you with sponsoring overview?
[16:14] <bdrung_> ari-tczew: did you get it working locally?
[16:15] <bdrung_> Laney: file:///home/skipper/devel/sponsoring/index.html ?
[16:16] <Laney> bdrung_: ??????
[16:17] <bdrung_> Laney: wrong link. --> http://people.ubuntu.com/~bdrung/sponsoring/
[16:18] <Laney> bdrung_: cool, that's better — thanks
[16:20] <ari-tczew> bdrung_: how can I check it? download branch to public_html ?
[16:20] <bdrung_> ari-tczew: download the branch and look at the documentation how to use it.
[16:33] <ari-tczew> bdrung_: could you show me your lintian command which you use for REVU?
[16:34] <Laney> lintian -iIE --pedantic
[16:46] <bdrung_> ari-tczew: ^
[16:47] <bdrung_> ari-tczew: on the changes files from the binary build
[16:53] <bilalakhtar> bdrung_: BTW, Why do you have a _ at the end of your nick? Why not bdrung?
[16:53] <bilalakhtar> this is there since you have come back from vacation
[16:54] <bilalakhtar> oh
[16:54] <bdrung> bilalakhtar: that's due to reconnects
[16:54] <bilalakhtar> bdrung: http://blog.expatsinksa.com/?p=43
[16:54] <bilalakhtar> See this ^^
[16:55] <bilalakhtar> But works only on Irssi
[16:55] <bdrung> bilalakhtar: i am using znc + xchat
[16:55] <bilalakhtar> oh
[16:55] <bilalakhtar> but this thing works for me
[16:56] <bilalakhtar> now I don't care about reconnects
[16:56] <bilalakhtar> its all automated
[16:56] <bilalakhtar> my nick gets ghosted, and my nick then gets changed back automatically
[16:57] <kklimonda> does it really matter? bdrung is bdrung even with a bar
[16:58] <bilalakhtar> kklimonda: I am curious about even the smallest of things
[16:58] <bdrung> bilalakhtar: my new ISP doesn't have a 24 h reconnect. i don't know how often i will get a new ip.
[18:02] <ari-tczew> bdrung: we got a problem. from sponsoring overview:  universe git-core ; but git-core is in main
[18:08] <bdrung> ari-tczew: file a bug. that's probably because git-core isn't in maverick any more.
[18:16] <geser> git-core the source package got renames to git
[18:16] <geser> but there is still a git-core binary package (build from git)
[18:17] <geser> for transition
[18:19] <ari-tczew> geser: ok, but why universe?
[18:25] <geser> ari-tczew: without to much digging into the code I assume it's because git-core isn't in maverick anymore and universe is used as default/fallback
[18:39] <ari-tczew> how can I set my @ubuntu.com alias to use it in evolution when I send a message?
[18:41] <ari-tczew> bdrung:  I have updated clementine. It's available @REVU for review. :)
[18:45] <kklimonda> ari-tczew: create a new account and don't set any server for receiving emails.
[19:05] <bdrung> ari-tczew: that doesn't look good: http://paste.debian.net/92600/
[19:05] <bdrung> (wrong idention)
[19:07] <ari-tczew> bdrung: I think that upstream author has added this change due to hosting clementine on google code. I'll talk to him.
[19:08] <bdrung> ari-tczew: 2.) three spaces as indention for the bullet point in long description?
[19:09] <bdrung> ari-tczew: what does that have to do with upstream? just change the indention: http://paste.debian.net/92601/
[19:10] <ari-tczew> bdrung: ah, I thought that this license is not good
[19:11] <ari-tczew> bdrung: well, how many spaces I need to delete? There are 5
[19:12] <bdrung> ari-tczew: the license is fine. only ISC is better than BSD.
[19:12] <bdrung> ari-tczew: four. "<space>*<space>"
[19:13] <bdrung> ari-tczew: and use three spaces for the indented next line
[19:14] <ari-tczew> what a odd rules
[19:14]  * ari-tczew is preparing a fix
[19:15] <bdrung> ari-tczew: i don't know if that is a rule.
[19:17] <bdrung> ari-tczew: http://www.debian.org/doc/debian-policy/ch-controlfields.html#s-f-Description
[19:19] <bdrung> ari-tczew: i have to change my previous comments. always use only one leading space. two or more spaces indicates a verbatim copy, which is not our intention.
[19:20] <bdrung> http://paste.debian.net/92603/
[19:26] <ari-tczew> bdrung: now is it okay? https://code.launchpad.net/~ari-tczew/clementine/REVU
[19:29] <bdrung> ari-tczew: point 1 yes, point 2 (long description) still open
[19:29] <ari-tczew> btw, what do you think about support bzr for revu?>
[19:30] <bdrung> ari-tczew: that would be nice
[19:30] <ari-tczew> wgrant: I guess that you are a master in these cases :D ^^
[19:32] <ari-tczew> bdrung: ok, there are 3 spaces. how many I have to remove? 2 spaces?
[19:32] <bdrung> yes
[19:36] <ari-tczew> bdrung: http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ari-tczew/clementine/REVU/revision/17
[19:36] <kklimonda> which reminds me - tumbleweed: wrt to me using UNRELEASED in debdiff - when you use dch --release or even sponsor-patch it shouldn't really change the maintainer line of changelog so it's not 10 second work for sponsors (yeah, I realize that the comment you made were few days ago but I've just recalled it ;) )
[19:38] <ari-tczew> kklimonda: I don't understand where are you going to?
[19:40] <kklimonda> ari-tczew: tumbleweed has commented on one of my bugs saying that changing UNRELEASED to the pocket you are interested in makes a work for sponsors easier - I don't see how when sponsor-patch should take care of changing it for sponsors.
[19:40] <ck2010> where do I start to become a motu after reading MOTU/GettingStarted?
[19:42] <ari-tczew> kklimonda: I think that it's not related to sponsor-patch. Changing manually target from UNRELEASED to maverick (example) taking 10 seconds of sponsors life.
[19:42] <kklimonda> ari-tczew: then don't change it manually, use available tools
[19:43] <ari-tczew> ck2010: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment
[19:43] <bdrung> ck2010: to become a MOTU you need to contribute to ubuntu through an sponsor before (point 9)
[19:44] <kklimonda> ari-tczew: dch --release -m -D lucid-proposed doesn't take additional 10 seconds
[19:44] <ari-tczew> kklimonda: wait, I'll check it with stoper. :D
[19:45] <bdrung> kklimonda: if you want that sponsor-patch checks or sets the target, please file a bug report.
[19:45] <ari-tczew> kklimonda: huh, 7,7 seconds!
[19:45] <kklimonda> bdrung: I can even prepare a patch ;)
[19:45] <kklimonda> ari-tczew: and that's without any aliases :)
[19:45] <bdrung> kklimonda: i'll review it
[19:46] <kklimonda> k
[19:48] <bdrung> ari-tczew: remove README.source
[19:49] <bdrung> ari-tczew: "override_dh_auto_test: ;" should work too (one liner)
[19:51] <tsmithe> hey; i don't really have enough knowledge of the translation system to understand the origin of this bug - https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/musescore/+bug/633501
[19:51] <tsmithe> (i posted in -translations, but it's a bit quiet)
[20:08] <ari-tczew> bdrung: README.source is already removed in REVU, but I didn't remove it @bzr.
[20:08]  * ari-tczew is merging both sources.
[20:18] <ari-tczew> bdrung: http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ari-tczew/clementine/REVU/revision/18
[20:47] <ari-tczew> bdrung: any issues yet?
[20:49] <bdrung> ari-tczew: no. it's fine from the technical point. things needed to be done: license check and install & using test
[20:51] <bilalakhtar> ari-tczew: Aiming for natty, I hope
[20:52] <ari-tczew> bdrung: are you going to do it?
[20:52] <ari-tczew> bilalakhtar: I'd get it into maverick...
[20:53] <bilalakhtar> ari-tczew: THIS late?
[20:53] <ari-tczew> bilalakhtar: I want to give 10.10 users a good music player.
[20:54] <bilalakhtar> ari-tczew: Did you get an FFe?
[20:54] <bilalakhtar> You will break so many freezes!
[20:54] <kklimonda> it's a ne package, targeted for universe so it's not that bad if he got a FFe
[20:55] <kklimonda> bilalakhtar: remember that the freezez for unseeded packages aren't that strict as for seeded ones
[20:55] <bdrung> ari-tczew: do you have a FFe?
[20:55] <kklimonda> freezes* (is it even a word? ;) )
[20:56]  * sebner is wondering if we don't have good music players already ;-)
[20:56] <ari-tczew> bdrung: no, because I'm waiting for REVU ACK.
[20:56] <kklimonda> sebner: only about around dozen or so ;)
[20:56] <iulian> sebner: Heh.
[20:56] <bilalakhtar> kklimonda: That doesn't mean that you go ahead and upload a new upstream version of linux an hour before release
[20:56] <bdrung> ari-tczew: use xmms2 :P
[20:56] <sebner> bdrung: audacious ftw! :P
[20:57] <kklimonda> bilalakhtar: I don't see a problem *if* he gets a FFe for it.
[20:57]  * iulian goes back in his cave now.
[20:57] <sebner> iulian: ^
[20:57] <ari-tczew> bdrung: no ;) I like amarok 1.4, so clementine is a placeholder
[20:57] <bdrung> sebner: you like audacious? do you volunteer to make audacious the best player?
[20:57] <bilalakhtar> kklimonda: So getting a person to ACK your FFe is not all, you _NEED_ to be responsible
[20:57] <sebner> bdrung: nah, the best player (which I use 99% of time) is banshee :P
[20:58] <kklimonda> bdrung: oh, you are no longer interested in audacious? how's that? I thought you were really close to its upstream developer :)
[20:58] <bdrung> ari-tczew: upload your latest revision to revu and i will comment it
[20:58] <ari-tczew> in Poland, we have a phrase: tastes is not discussed
[20:58] <kklimonda> bilalakhtar: do you suggest that ari-tczew isn't responsible and the package is going to bitrot in archive?
[20:58] <bilalakhtar> kklimonda: You meant that getting an FFe is all one needs
[20:59] <bilalakhtar> You are breaking a freeze and you need to be responsible
[20:59] <bilalakhtar> I know ari-tczew will be responsible, for sure
[20:59] <bilalakhtar> but your approach is 'Get an FFe and just upload without caring about anything else'
[20:59] <ari-tczew> bilalakhtar: it's not a library, so nothing will be broken. :)
[21:00] <ari-tczew> and I use this package, so I'm sure, that it works fine.
[21:00] <bilalakhtar> ari-tczew: hmm, yes
[21:00] <bilalakhtar> The case with clementine is different, though
[21:00] <bdrung> kklimonda: i'm in the multimedia team and touch many sound apps (audacity, audacious, xmms2 + ~5 clients). if there is someone else who wants to maintain audacious, i will give it right away.
[21:01] <bilalakhtar> bdrung: You maintain audacious?
[21:01] <bdrung> bilalakhtar: yes (for a half year)
[21:02] <bilalakhtar> bdrung: ah, did I tell you I became MOTU?
[21:02] <ari-tczew> bdrung: do you will give an ACK?
[21:02] <bilalakhtar> do you will give ^^ :D
[21:02] <bilalakhtar> bigon: Stop reconnecting!
[21:02] <ari-tczew> bilalakhtar: ?
[21:03] <bilalakhtar> ari-tczew: nothing, just a grammatical error
[21:03] <ari-tczew> bilalakhtar: btw. turn off showing who log-in or log-out.
[21:03] <kklimonda> bilalakhtar: my approach is "if you get a FFe you are all set" and that does not include any work you are supposed to do before or after getting FFe - I assume that package that gets a FFe is ready to be uploaded and that person responsible for it is going to be responsible.
[21:03] <ari-tczew> bilalakhtar: sorry, I'm not a perfect person, like other.
[21:03] <ari-tczew> s/like/than
[21:03] <bilalakhtar> 'kay
[21:03] <bigon> mmm some trouble with my ipv6 connexion
[21:03] <bdrung> bilalakhtar: yes. i did read the dmb meeting log. did i welcome you in the team?
[21:04] <bilalakhtar> I have gone to poland, and I can see that ari-tczew knows much better english that other pols!
[21:04] <ari-tczew> I remember that bdrung sent congrats to bilalakhtar.
[21:04] <bilalakhtar> bdrung: no, but you just did
[21:04]  * bilalakhtar re-checks the log
[21:05] <ari-tczew> bilalakhtar: do you planning visit our country?
[21:05] <bilalakhtar> bdrung: hmm, nope, probably I was away at that time, but thanks a lot anyway
[21:05] <bdrung> bilalakhtar: ok, then this got lost in the big backlog after my holydays
[21:05] <bilalakhtar> ari-tczew: I visited in 2007
[21:05] <bdrung> bilalakhtar: where do you come from?
[21:06] <bilalakhtar> bdrung: Indian by origin, living in Saudi Arabia
[21:06] <bdrung> wow
[21:07] <bdrung> bilalakhtar: you want to maintain audacious?
[21:07] <bilalakhtar> bdrung: will answer that tomorrow :) I will definitely
[21:07] <ajmitch> you're brave
[21:07] <bilalakhtar> bdrung: haven't looked at the code yet, but I will be happy to
[21:08]  * ajmitch stabs nz2.a.u.c again
[21:08] <kklimonda> bdrung: you should tell anyone that they are going to have to work with an.. opinionated upstream developer
[21:08] <bilalakhtar> bdrung: I have always wanted to maintain packages in Debian, and am currently talking to pkg-grass-devel about transferring 2 packages to me
[21:08] <bdrung> bilalakhtar: i must warn you. there are upstream guys that violate our CoC in every conversation.
[21:08]  * bilalakhtar is strict on the CoC
[21:09] <bilalakhtar> bdrung: really? Well, that shouldn't be a showstopper bug :D
[21:09] <bdrung> bilalakhtar: you can only "enforce" the CoC in our channels and in Launchpad
[21:09] <bilalakhtar> bdrung: In know that
[21:09] <bilalakhtar> *I
[21:10] <bdrung> bilalakhtar: for example bug #647859 or this commit: http://hg.atheme.org/release/audacious-plugins-2.4.x/release/audacious-plugins-2.4.x/rev/6a8df459ccce
[21:10] <kklimonda> bilalakhtar: well, if you are being called names for patching software to conform to debian policy it may get a little tedious to work on it
[21:10] <bilalakhtar> 'I am strict' means I somehow get other guys to follow CoCs. Just ask the people on #omg!ubuntu! how I got a CoC in effect
[21:10] <ajmitch> kklimonda: like the recent rant about ruby that's come up?
[21:11] <Nafallo> haha. srsly. LOL in the bug title?
[21:11] <bilalakhtar> Thi is hell
[21:11] <bilalakhtar> *this
[21:11] <kklimonda> ajmitch: heh, or the one about ion3 in debian..
[21:11] <bilalakhtar> bdrung: Is this the reason why you want to give up? :D
[21:11] <ajmitch> kklimonda: ah yes, the joerg schilling award for free software :)
[21:12] <bilalakhtar> bdrung: That commit is so bad!
[21:12] <bilalakhtar> bdrung: I have to sleep now, will tell tomorrow
[21:12] <bilalakhtar> bye guys
[21:12] <bdrung> bilalakhtar: it's sometimes hard to stay calm. one tip: get the patches upstream first and then cherry-pick them from their VCS. then they can't complain about the patches.
[21:12] <kklimonda> ajmitch: yeah - the award for FLOSS project managment.. ;)
[21:13]  * ajmitch thinks today is a good day to upload packages to debian
[21:13] <bdrung> upstream is not the reason for giving the package away. i maintain too many packages and that consumes too much time.
[21:13] <directhex> could be worse
[21:13] <directhex> let me find the bug number
[21:13] <ajmitch> directhex: it could be evil tainted mono stuff?
[21:13] <kklimonda> :D
[21:13] <directhex> bug 220907
[21:14] <ajmitch> directhex: was that the one where it insulted slomo directly?
[21:14] <ajmitch> ah yes, it is
[21:14] <directhex> ajmitch: mais oui!
[21:15] <kklimonda> directhex: nice one :)
[21:20] <ari-tczew> bdrung: clementine uploaded. when you will give an ACK, then I'll sign my comment as 2nd ACK. then I'm going to open FFe request.
[21:20] <ari-tczew> iulian: what do you think about it? ^^
[21:22] <kklimonda> ari-tczew: can MOTU ack his own uploads? Isn't it the same as confirming own bugs?
[21:22] <bdrung> kklimonda: for new package this is allowed.
[21:22] <sebner> ari-tczew: I think the point is that at this time of the cycle people tend to fix stuff instead of introduce new packages, especially since we have tons of good players already but if you are happy with it and it gets accepted .. fine
[21:23] <ari-tczew> sebner: I am stubborn.
[21:23] <sebner> heh
[21:24] <ajmitch> we've noticed that :)
[21:25] <bdrung> ari-tczew: comment given
[21:26]  * ajmitch had taken a look at clementine but no indepth review
[21:26] <ari-tczew> what is hard with approve new package? I'll give buildlog, installog and feedback from using.
[21:27] <ari-tczew> and it's target to universe.
[21:27] <kklimonda> we are talking here and I've missed the premiere of Sintel :/
[21:27] <ajmitch> the tedious parts are usually things like the license check
[21:27] <bdrung> ari-tczew: find a motu who has the time for a full license check.
[21:27] <kklimonda> yeah, the life of ftp master is a boring one ;)
[21:28] <ari-tczew> who is a mastermind in licenses? :)
[21:29] <ajmitch> you'd also have to hope that there'll be an archive admin with time to process a new package in the next week or so
[21:30] <bdrung> sintel has a strange resolution (2048 x 872)
[21:30] <ari-tczew> ajmitch: would you like to check license for clementine? ;)
[21:30] <ari-tczew> bdrung: (not advocating) :(
[21:30] <bdrung> ari-tczew: it's just the missing license check. otherwise you have my advocation.
[21:30] <kklimonda> bdrung: yeah, 720p isn't yet ready
[21:32] <ajmitch> ari-tczew: at the moment, no, since I'm at work (yay for timezones)
[21:33] <ari-tczew> ajmitch: later?
[21:33] <ajmitch> possibly
[21:33] <ajmitch> I see that debian/copyright looks fairly complicated
[21:35] <ari-tczew> :(
[21:38] <ari-tczew> ajmitch: so I'm counting on you. if you will process it, you have beer from me. I'll start FFe tomorrow.
[21:38] <ajmitch> don't count on me, I had about 4 hours sleep :P
[21:38]  * ari-tczew is going to prepare a raport about stock management.
[21:38] <ajmitch> sounds really exciting
[21:38] <ajmitch> almost as exciting as my evening updating data due to tax changes here
[21:39] <ari-tczew> heh :P
[21:39] <ari-tczew> see you later
[21:43] <kklimonda> bah, way too short :/
[22:30] <lfaraone> ScottK: can you ACK bug 649994? chrisccoulson from mozillateam okayed as not needing trademark approval, and I'm keen to have this in the release.
[22:31] <ScottK> lfaraone: If it's a sync from Debian, I'm ok with it.
[22:31] <ScottK> (feel free to copy/paste that in the bug)
[22:31] <lfaraone> ScottK: it's a new package, you can't have packages in Debian with the word 'firefox' in them :)
[22:32] <lfaraone> ScottK: I'll post a deb in a few minutes, it's soooo trivial anybody should be able to follow the code.
[22:32] <ScottK> lfaraone: Then alternately find another archive admin who can review it for New as I don't have time to look at it from scratch.
[22:33] <lfaraone> ScottK: okay, I'll get that. But don't I need a FFe first?
[22:33] <ScottK> lfaraone: I'll give you the FFe conditional on an archive admin to review it.
[22:33] <ScottK> (Close enough)