/srv/irclogs.ubuntu.com/2010/10/01/#bzr.txt

FryGuy_whoops wrong button00:00
FryGuy_i'm not used to using trillian for irc00:00
FryGuy_also, is the person that made the bzr-tfs plugin here?00:05
jelmerFryGuy_: I don't think John is here at the moment00:06
mgzokay, it's just past midnight, and I have an installer built00:07
mgzthe actual fix will now take me, I think, five minutes.00:07
GaryvdMmgz: Wow. I tried for days, and did not succeed. Well done.00:09
pooliewell done!00:09
mgzI chopped nearly everything out of it, so it's a sort-of cheat00:10
mgzhm, and hook_debugger_to_signal is borked, but otherwise it seems to be working00:11
pooliemgz, you're talking about trying to get a 2.3 win32 installer?00:13
poolieor one that works on windows 7?00:13
mgzI'm trying to fix the manifest thing, as it *does* apparently break the installer for people00:13
mgzI'm just leaving a trail of smooth yaks behind me00:14
poolie:)00:14
mgzokay, weirdness to work out later... signal.signal is raising "ValueError: invalid signal value" with signal.SIGBREAK00:18
mgzbut otherwise that installer works, but links the wrong dll00:18
mgznow, to do the change, and confirm it then links the right one00:18
mgznew installer built...00:23
mgzwhoops, forgot one bit.00:25
mgzokay, works.00:36
mgztooo late, bed bed bed.01:26
poolienight mgz01:59
mgzsadly I am not yet in fact in bed, I have just fixed the python trunk bug that was breaking hook_debugger_to_signal though, just need to post it02:00
jbowtieHopefully that will really fix bug 59623902:26
ubot5`Launchpad bug 596239 in Bazaar "Bazaar supports https! Update documentation (affected: 1, heat: 6)" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/59623902:26
jbowtieAt least while we still can't have Sphinx features.02:27
jbowtieWhere do ghost revisions come from?  Uncommits?02:28
dashjbowtie: developers of christmas past02:28
maxbbzr-svn, afaik, only02:29
mkanatjbowtie: I had the same question when I was reading that code.02:29
mkanatjbowtie: But I don't remember the answer.02:29
maxbA ghost is when you know a revision was merged, but you don't know anything else about the merged revision besides its id02:30
jbowtieIt's just one of those things mentioned in the docs, but never defined.02:30
jbowtieSo we should either remove it from the docs, or explain what they are and why we care about them.02:31
jbowtieIf they're not really visible outside the code I'd vote for removing mentions of it.02:32
* jbowtie is looking at bug 40545202:32
ubot5`Launchpad bug 405452 in Bazaar "document the term "ghost" (affected: 1, heat: 0)" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/40545202:32
pooliei think they should be perhaps in a faq or something similar02:32
poolienot normally something users should need to know about but the term might come up and then it's useful if there's a definition02:32
jbowtieI was thinking of adding a glossary to the user guide.02:33
poolieother than that i'd agree with removing confusing references02:33
pooliethat would be great02:33
jbowtieYes, it would, but I'm not doing it until we switch to Sphinx so I can use glossary and term directives.02:34
jbowtieWhich in practice means until PQM gets updated.02:35
jbowtieNoticed on python-diversity people asking about female-friendly FLOSS projects, do we have any women on the core team?02:44
pooliei don't think so02:46
jbowtiepoolie: Maybe you should point that out to HR when they send over the next stack of CVs.02:46
poolieoh, my02:47
pooliewhat would you like HR to do with that information?02:47
jbowtieMaybe we should explicitly reach out?  I can put the word out on python-diversity and geekfeminism if we have some bandwidth to mentor new people.02:47
pooliethere are female committers on other canonical-related projects, including launchpad02:48
pooliei hope they find it a good place to work02:48
poolieor good projects to work on, as appropriate02:48
pooliewe have at least one female applicant for the currently-open bzr job02:49
pooliesuggesting we should positively tilt things towards them is a difficult topic02:49
jbowtieThat's great.02:49
jbowtieNo, I just want to make sure we're not accidentally doing things that discourage women.  :)02:50
pooliei would be very happy to see more technical women here02:50
poolieand, right, if we are doing anything that discourages them either applying or working here, that's a serious bug and we should fix it02:50
pooliei'm probably not best qualified to know if that's true02:51
jbowtieSo if you mention to HR maybe they could shake the resume tree a little harder.02:51
jbowtieI only think of it because where I work now we have had no female applicants to the IT team for 5 years.02:52
pooliewell,02:52
jbowtieAnd I'm pretty sure it's cultural or unconscious bias on the part of management.02:52
pooliewe're working on a project to better expose and propagate the job openings we do have02:53
mwhudsonjbowtie: canonical recruits pretty heavily from open source communities, and women are even less well represented there than in the it industry as a whole02:53
mwhudsonwhy that is is an interesting topic, but perhaps not one for this channel :)02:53
roryyfrom my perspective as an outsider, the bzr dev is handled professionally; i can't see anything that would be particularly offputting for women, or anyone02:54
pooliei think we have pretty good diversity on other axes02:54
poolierace, religion, sexuality, veterans, disablity02:54
jbowtieSo if I go back to python-diversity and say we're a female-friendly project, y'all are not going to make a liar out of me?  :)02:54
poolie:) i hope not02:55
pooliei would be delighted if it's true02:55
poolieand if there are bugs, i would like to see them pointed out and fixed02:55
poolieyou could ask maritza and emmajane how they found it02:55
poolieor ursinha in #launchpad02:56
pooliei guess you know our ceo is a woman, but perhaps that's a different situation to being directly in a technical team02:57
jbowtieThanks, I will do.02:57
jbowtieYes, it's a little different. But I know the Ubuntu community as a whole is pretty progressive compared to open source generally.02:58
mkanatI think most FOSS projects are pretty friendly toward people of any sort.03:13
mkanatI've never encountered one where there was any sort of prejudice, except perhaps against Windows users. :-)03:13
peitschiehi every1 :)03:14
exarkunmkanat: not to say anything against the bzr community, but if you think you've never encountered any prejudice, then probably that's a failure of observation.03:14
mkanatexarkun: No, I don't think so. I probably just haven't worked with projects where there is any sort of gender or racial bias.03:15
mkanatexarkun: Most of the male FOSS developers that I know bemoan the fact that it's such a male-dominated profession.03:15
mkanatThe only thing that I can't explain about software development is why ANY human being would want to spend 10 hours a day in front of a computer, except for the fact that I do it. :-)03:16
* exarkun shrugs03:17
exarkunas you like03:17
jeremywexarkun: Prejudice about what?03:17
jeremywI mean, a project member would of course be a little biased for their project.03:18
mkanatjeremyw: Sure, *technical* prejudice, I see all the time. :-)03:18
jeremywBut, truth be told, I'm a Subversion committer and I have no bias toward it.  It's great for some things but I don't use it much these days.03:18
pooliewell, there are some projects that have a more, say, aggressive or confrontational style03:18
mkanatThat's practically the whole driving force behind the software industry--technical prejudice. :-D03:18
jeremywLike the Git folks.  ;)03:18
mkanatpoolie: Ah, yeah, that's true.03:18
poolieyou said it not me :)03:18
mkanatlol03:18
* mkanat can think of a few other projects of a similar stripe.03:19
pooliebut, that is sometimes said to be offputting to female contributors03:19
jeremywThe Git people are like little mini Linuses.  If it ain't Git, it sucks and should be wiped off the record.03:19
mkanatpoolie: Sure, I can imagine that. It's offputting to me, too.03:19
pooliesvn went very far in the other direction to be friendly, was my impression03:19
jeremywYou get my drift.  I happen to be open to whatever works.03:19
pooliepeitschie: hi, there, thanks for your summary mail03:19
jeremywpoolie: Subversion people are very nice if you ask me.  I spend a lot of time in #svn answering a lot of help.  I'm nice.  ;)03:19
dashwell the svn guys _did_ do a whole google talk on how to deal with people messing up your project's community  :)03:20
mkanatpoolie: Yeah, my experience is that unless somebody around is putting a specific effort into making a community friendly, then it tends to devolve into unpleasantness.03:20
pooliei don't have any particular renspose other than that we should/will fix those bugs03:20
poolieit's interesting that i'd say most of them, like the ghosts things, do come from bzr-svn03:20
jeremywdash: Well, the idea was more geared towards project governance.  ;)03:20
pooliewhich is a great feature, but also kind of inherently more difficult03:20
pooliemm03:20
pooliei agree03:20
peitschiepoolie: i definitely wasn't expecting much more :).  I know a lot of them are being worked on.. just hoped the overall experience story might be interesting :)03:20
pooliei think the biggest problems we've had are in code reviews and that's probably now a positive overall03:21
pooliebut again of course i may be biased03:21
mkanatpoolie: Yeah, we had that problem as well, with code reviews.03:21
mkanatpoolie: Because their purpose is to criticize.03:21
jeremywI've pretty much learned that the VCS I used is more geared toward what my employer uses or what the open source project I'm contributing to uses.  Sure, I have my personal preference for private stuff but...03:21
pooliesee also jml's talk "your code sucks and i hate you"03:21
mkanatpoolie: lol03:21
jeremywhaha03:22
mkanatpoolie: That's an excellent talk name.03:22
mkanatjeremyw: Same here, although I have a strange tendency to cause projects to switch to bzr. :-)03:22
pooliei was saying to robert the other day i think the point of code reviews is to improve the people and the relationship and only secondarily the code03:22
mkanatpoolie: I like that view, because ultimately it's the people who write the code.03:22
pooliehopefully to make them more knowledgeable, also more excited, and to know of easier ways to do things next time03:22
peitschiepoolie: the bzr-svn stuff is also a little disappointing because i've been noticing the latest releases really starting to shine.  I kinda feel like I was a little early with letting this into the company unfortunately :(03:22
pooliealso, the amoutn of code under review at any time is probably a small fraction of the total that person will ever write03:23
mkanatpoolie: Yeah, that's a good point.03:24
mkanatpoolie: That's kind of in line with the community research I did on the Bugzilla Project, that I wrote up here: http://groups.google.com/group/mozilla.dev.apps.bugzilla/browse_thread/thread/520f5aa32917a517/bb7c1a42bcc400d903:24
pooliewow, that's good03:25
peitschiemkanat: thats a very interesting writeup :)03:25
mkanatpoolie: Thanks!03:25
mkanatpeitschie: Thanks! :-)03:25
pooliei strongly agree about freezes03:26
mkanatpoolie: Yeah, and that one had unarguable corroborating data.03:26
mkanatpoolie: You can draw a vertical line on the graph of the number of contributors at the freeze dates and see the graph crash from there.03:26
jbowtieHmm... grep shows ghosts only being mentioned in the developer documentation, so I'm off to the next bug.03:28
jbowtiemkanat: Yes, that is a great writeup.03:29
mkanatjbowtie: Thank you!03:29
dmuirdoing a first time contrib, so just wanting to make sure I'm doing it right04:01
dmuirdo I simply commit to my local branch, then push to bzr.dev?04:01
dmuirah, oop, looking at the docs... I push to my branch on launchpad, then send a merge request04:02
dmuiris that right?04:04
roryydmuir: i'm going through the process myself for the first time, and that sounds like what i did04:05
dmuirnow I just need to figure out how to push to launchpad.... :-)04:06
roryyit was in one of the docs -- there's an example of how to tweak bazaar.conf to make it fairly easy04:07
dmuirI'm looking at the contribution-quickstart article which suggests putting some stuff in locations.conf04:08
dmuirwhich i'm trying now04:08
pooliebranching is fine but setting things up so changes _must_ stall is poor04:13
jbowtiedmuir: Generally I use bzr push lp:~jbowtie/bzr/branch-name  (of course substitute your own launchpad id)04:15
jbowtiedmuir: Followed by bzr lp-propose-merge04:15
dmuirah, that's what I was looking for, the docs say to use `bzr propose-merge`, which I guess is wrong.04:16
dmuirhmm, bzr crashed04:21
dmuirbzr: ERROR: lazr.restfulclient.errors.HTTPError: HTTP Error 401: Unauthorized04:21
dmuirodd, since I logged in fine04:22
roryyyou can propose a merge using launchpad04:22
dmuirI think I got it working now04:24
jbowtiedmuir: Thanks for pointing out the bug in the docs, I've proposed a merge to fix it.04:27
dmuirthanks, was about to do it myself after submitting my current proposal04:28
dmuirseems that I got it all working. bzr got all confused because launchpad didn't take me to the screen to authorise access from bzr. When I tried a second time it worked. But then it got all confused about the merge description.04:30
dmuirso I updated that... except maybe it should have been the commit message?04:31
pooliedmuir: are you ok now?04:35
dmuirjust wondering if I should update the commit message? I set a description, but then noticed after that there's no commit message.04:36
poolieyou can set both04:36
dmuirok04:36
pooliethe commit message will go into the history, and the description can have more text just for the reviewers04:36
dmuirah, ok04:37
dmuirdone04:38
dmuiryay, my first contribution to bzr!04:39
poolie:)04:39
dmuirminor doc fix, but figured I'd start small :-)04:39
dmuirso if I fix more things, do I push them to the same branch and create a new proposal? Or do I put that into a new branch, and propose that instead?04:42
poolieif they're related and should land together, put them in the same branch and just push04:43
poolieif you're doing a series of small doc fixes, put them togethr04:43
poolieif you're going to also fix a bug, i'd do it separately04:43
jbowtieI normally do a branch for each bug personally.04:43
jbowtieWhich reminds me, I can't figure out how to use bzr-colo.04:44
dmuirok, thanks!04:44
jbowtieI got the idea it's good for managing lots of little branches like my workflow creates, but I can't figure out how to get started with it.04:45
pooliejbowtie: so what i did is04:48
pooliebzr colo-init ~/bzr/work04:48
poolie(i'm going to use that as my colo workspace)04:48
pooliecd ~/bzr/work04:48
poolienow it'll be on trunk by default, and have an empty repo04:48
poolieso then04:48
pooliebzr pull lp:bzr04:48
poolienow to start something else04:48
pooliebzr colo-branch 189757-stacking04:49
poolieand then you have the same tree, on that new branche04:49
thumperpoolie: got a minute?05:27
pooliethumper: hi05:30
thumperpoolie: skype?05:31
poolieok, give me a sec05:33
vilahi all !07:23
* fullermd quickly hands vila a parrot, a half gallon of milk, and 3 bags of sand, tells him to look natural, and runs the other way.07:29
roryyfor bug 335577, I'm thinking of parsing the text of the global options text (effectively bzrlib.help_topics._global_options, but obtained via method call).  The idea is to look for lines starting with "--" and treat those as options, an insert the appropriate magic-man-macros.  Does that seem OK?  Alternatively I could just create the man text from that text by hand.07:29
ubot5`Launchpad bug 335577 in Bazaar "bzr global options should be added to man page (affected: 0, heat: 5)" [Low,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/33557707:29
pooliehi there vila07:31
pooliewow, the early comments on that bug are pretty weird07:32
roryyand the last one is *cough* wrong07:32
vilafullermd: not sure about what I should reply there.... What's up doc ?07:32
poolieroryy: so they want to be examined in tools/generate_man_page, i think it's called07:33
roryyi've ended up in doc_generate.autodoc_man07:34
poolieroryy: it would be a good start to just make sure the global options help topic appears as a heading in the man page07:34
pooliethat sounds right07:34
pooliethat's not quite idiomatic but it'd be close07:34
vilamkanat: wow, there are gems in this mail, you should turn it into a blog07:34
fullermdvila: I dunno.  I just started typing...07:34
poolieyou know as a followon it could be good to generate separate bzr-$command man pages07:35
vilafullermd: ha, ok, I wasn't sure, I appreciate the intent ;)07:35
vilanah, intent much appreciated sounds more like it07:35
roryypoolie: i.e., just a static section 'GLOBAL OPTIONS See "bzr help global-options" ' ?07:35
pooliewell, ideally wit would have the actual text of it there07:36
roryyi've kind of gotten that07:36
roryybut the man formatting looks horrible07:36
roryyhence the parsing07:36
roryyor i could manually put in the man macros, which would be dead easy07:37
poolieah, i see07:38
pooliehm07:39
poolieit would be better not to have to manually maintain the manpage07:39
mgzmorning all.07:41
roryyok, i'll have a bash at generating the man source from that text.  shouldn't be hard07:41
mgzcan't you assign a man to manually manage the manpage?07:41
poolieroryy: i think really it would be cleaner to generate it from the option objects07:41
pooliemgz :)07:41
fullermdMan, you gotta be joking.07:41
pooliein both cases07:41
roryypoolie: fair enough07:42
pooliei guess you'd need to somehow mesh it with the explanatory text07:42
pooliei don't think we need to point to the profiling options here07:42
pooliethat kind of belongs in developer docs07:42
roryyif i read commands.py correctly, '--no-plugins' is checked in run_bzr() -- i'm not following what an option object is07:44
mgzpoolie, as you marked roryy's mp approved you think it's good to go? will go ahead and land that and andrej's changes now if so.07:44
vilamgz: wow already up ! You did manage to build an installer finally ?07:44
pooliemgz is that the meliae one?07:44
mgzI built enough of it to write the fix.07:45
mgzpoolie, no, the --show-base one07:45
vilamgz: I *am* very interested tracking changes you had to do to get there, I hope you will submit some mps soon while it's fresh...07:45
poolieroryy: hm, some of them, including no-plugins, are handled a bit specially07:45
vila*interested in07:45
poolieok, i'll change that advice to say it would be nice to turn them into objects then format the objects for both cases07:46
roryyheh07:46
roryyok07:46
pooliehowever if you want to just quote the text so that it formats properly, i think that would be a step forward07:46
vilapoolie: Do we have graphs of downloads somewhere and do we have them for ppas too ?07:46
pooliei don't think so07:49
pooliemgz, re --show-base, it's not the ideal implementation but i think it's reasonable07:51
mgzhm, yeah, you mentioned a config thing, have we got a bug on what you were intending?07:52
poolienot sure07:52
* poolie looks07:53
pooliewhat i had in mind is that if there was a per-process configuration,07:53
pooliehigher level things could map --show-base into setting merge.show_base = True07:53
pooliefor the duration of the command07:53
pooliethat would avoid the proliferation of things being passed down07:53
poolieit would also let people set it permanently if they wanted07:53
vilabzrlib.merge.show_base could be a config option whose value can be overridden from the command line07:55
poolieexactly07:57
* vila rejoices :)07:58
roryythat setting of that option (bzrlib.merge.show_base) would still be set in the appropriate commands? (pull, merge, update) ?07:59
vilaand no spurious failure on babune today !07:59
roryyalso, would it become --show-base=yes|no if it's an overrideable config option?07:59
vilaby the way, maverick is back as a regular slave with a single failure, guess which one...08:00
vilabzrlib.tests.test_transport.TestSSHConnections.test_bzr_connect_to_bzr_ssh08:00
mgzparamiko thing?08:01
vilamgz: yup08:03
vilaI asked spiv for a maverick version of its package that I use on lucid08:03
pooliewhy spiv?08:05
vilabecause he did: https://edge.launchpad.net/~spiv/+archive/packaging-test08:05
vilaand I use this ppa for the babune lucid slave08:05
vilathe problem wasn't apparent before because the maverick slave was using python2.7 and paramiko wasn't packaged at all08:06
vilabut since I switch back to 2.6 to debug the ca.crt thing, I left it at 2.608:07
GaryvdMHi all.08:14
mgzmorning Gary.08:16
mgzI put up an installers mp that should sort out the manifest thing.08:16
=== ddaa1 is now known as ddaa
GaryvdMmgz: Cool. would you like me to build a full installer with it.08:22
mgzWe probably want to before 2.2.2 but don't rush.08:23
GaryvdMok08:23
vilapoolie: you really want to separate show-config and set-config ? I thought bzr config name=value was more... natural ?08:30
vilapoolie: it's true that at the implementation level this would be almost completely separated though (with a bit of overlap nevertheless since setting applies to a subset of what is shown)08:31
=== spike_ is now known as spikeWRK
twbWhat's the equivalent of "hg out", i.e. a dry-run push?10:26
vilabzr missing --mine-only ?10:26
twbArgh, the server's behind a bloody pptp server, so I have to bounce back into a ppp-enabled kernel to try it :-/10:29
mkanatvila: Thanks!!10:38
mkanatvila: I was actually just thinking about making it into a blog.10:38
vilamkanat: :)10:38
vilaI believe in many of the points you raised, it's nice to see you backed them with data10:39
twbbzr missing was the Right Thing.11:01
twbUnfortunately there are merge conflicts with upstream, and my patch is trivial, and I don't feel like learning how to resolve conflicts in bzr at 8PM on a Friday, so I'm just going to bzr log -c | ssh foo patch, resolve the conflict by hand, then commit it as a fresh change11:02
GaryvdMmgz: I tried to build with your patch. I got this error again: "*** finding dlls needed *** \n error: MSVCP90.dll: No such file or directory"11:26
mkanatvila: Thanks. :-)11:28
GaryvdMmgz: last time I got that error, I copied msvc*.dll to some where py2exe could find it. The build host has been rolled back, so this is no longer in place.11:30
GaryvdMI could do that again, but it did not feel right.11:31
GaryvdMI was hopping your patch would fix this with needing to copy the dll's11:32
GaryvdMmgz: what do you recommend I do?11:32
* GaryvdM reads the py2exe doc again11:34
mgzGaryvdM: okay, that wasn't what I was trying to fix so it's not suprising it's still happening11:38
mgzif you copied the dlls last time to make it work, do it again11:38
mgzbut tell me where you're copying them to, and I'll look at fixing that as well11:39
GaryvdMok - I see you used self.msvc_redist_dir, and I'm just looking where that comes from.11:40
mgzwhat I changed is all post-py2exe, it's a different issue11:41
GaryvdMoh11:41
mgzhttps://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/bazaar/2010q3/070252.html <- what that branch is aimed at11:42
mandelhello, I've been trying to use bzr-pqm in an recently updated maverick machine and I get the following error: http://paste.ubuntu.com/503808/11:43
mgzsomething that breaks then installer for users, not the process of building the installer11:44
mgzmandel: that's actually (mostly) harmless, but is fixed in the upcoming 2.311:44
GaryvdMmgz: ok - I'm with you11:44
mandelmgz, ok, sweet, I was talking with the canonical losas and we had no bloody clue about that, I'll update our wiki so that people know about it11:45
mandelmgz, thx a lot!11:45
mgzI'll give you a bug number ina sec11:45
mandelmgz that would be superb!11:45
mgz...I think Andrew filed a bug rather than just putting up an mp11:45
* mgz goes for qlog rather than launchpad bug search anyway just in case11:46
mgzbug 633745 is what I was thinking of, but I'm not completely sure that's the right thing11:48
ubot5`Launchpad bug 633745 in Bazaar 2.2 "bzr+ssh to pre-1.6 server fails with AttributeError: 'NoneType' object has no attribute 'close' in close_ssh_proc (affected: 1, heat: 11)" [Critical,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/63374511:48
mandelmgz, does look like the same one.. I'll just update the wiki so that is someone finds the issue does not have to worry about it, thx a lot for the help!11:50
mgzif it is that, 2.2.1 will fix it, file a bug if it doesn't.11:52
GaryvdMmgz: Ah, we have a dll exclude for MSVCP60.dll, but not for MSVCP90.dll - Maybe we should add that?12:06
GaryvdMin setup.exe line 69112:07
mgzif that turns out to help, go for it, but I think we played around with this a week ago and didn't get that far12:07
mgzit doesn't really matter if we end up copying it in the script to make py2exe happy because we can seperately just not ship it12:08
GaryvdMmgz: ok12:08
GaryvdMmgz: https://dl.dropbox.com/u/4494367/bzr-2.2.1-setup-manifest.exe12:38
mgzgetting, thanks Gary.12:39
GaryvdMI've not tested myself yet.12:40
mgzit's a bit of a pain to do unless you have a clean vm somewhere12:41
mgzah, uh, er... was just about to declare victory, but everything qt is broken12:46
GaryvdMmgz: that may not be due to your patch12:47
mgzI'm going to try copying the cpp runtime library in to see if it's that12:48
GaryvdMI had to reinstall pyqt oh build the host :-/12:48
GaryvdM*on12:48
mgznope.12:48
mgzmeh, pants12:56
mgzit the cpp runtime, wonder what the best way to fix this is12:57
mgzthe only thing it's actually in there for:12:57
mgz    MSVCP90.dll12:57
mgz                 BE4   ?uncaught_exception@std@@YA_NXZ12:57
mgzalso, but unrelated, the crypto compiled bits seem to be missing12:59
mgz...I'm failing to think of a non-ridiculous way of handling this13:02
mgzpython26.dll has to be in the base dir, and needs the runtime next to it, qt dlls need to be in the lib dir, and have the runtime next to it13:02
mgzlinking two different copies is asking for pain.13:03
mgzokay, that'd work. scrap the lib dir entirely and put *everything* in library.zip in the root folder13:23
mgzor install to SxS system dir13:26
mgzah, or maybe just update the python? I'll read through all of <http://bugs.python.org/issue4120> but that's pretty much the issue.13:32
mgznope, not relevent.13:40
vilameh, what's the python equivalent for C __FILE__ __LINE__  ?14:15
vila__file__ for __FILE__ but __LINE__ ?14:16
Glenjamini think __line__ works14:16
KinnisonOr you might just use the inspect module?14:16
Kinnison(in the callee)14:16
vilaKinnison: :-) I am the callee, I want to know my line number14:17
Kinnisonhmm14:18
Kinnisonfrom inspect import currentframe14:18
Kinnisonthen use currentframe().f_lineno and currentframe().f_code.co_filename14:18
Kinnison?14:18
Kinnison(untested)14:18
vilaKinnison: works, thanks14:20
* vila was stupid to try it under pdb just to get '1' as a result14:21
Kinnisonnote: probably not terribly efficient14:21
Kinnisonif __file__ works, then use that instead of the latter14:21
vilaKinnison: I did14:21
Kinnison:-)14:22
vilaefficiency is not a concern, it's to report an error to the user14:22
Glenjaminhttp://code.activestate.com/recipes/145297-grabbing-the-current-line-number-easily/14:22
Glenjaminseems like inspect is the only way, __line__ would be too magic for python i guess :)14:22
vilayeah, I think I was climbing the wrong tree, python is an interpreter not a preprocessor, doesn't really make sense to bind a symbol with that (unlike __file__)14:23
vilaGlenjamin: thanks for the additional bit of info (I will need f_back :-)14:24
vilayoo14:24
vilatoo14:24
vilaha typos....14:24
GaryvdMmgz: I don't have any qt issues with that installer - on a fresh win 7 vm15:16
GaryvdMeverything just works15:17
GaryvdMWhat error to you get?15:18
GaryvdM*do15:18
mgzwell, I don't think I've made anything worse, but I've probably not fixed anything15:18
mgzI suspect windows 7 (and possibly vista) has the vc9 runtime in a shared location anyway15:19
GaryvdMI'll try reproduce in a xp vm, with an old installer15:20
mgzdoes your vm have %WINDIR%WinSxS\x86_Microsoft.VC90.CRT_<morestuff>?15:20
* GaryvdM checks15:20
mgzI mean, the good news is this shouldn't really affect many people as various other bits of software will stick the dlls we need were they'll get found anyway, but I think this is kinda borked15:21
mgzI've just been looking at mercurial's new msi installer with some envy, the config is horrid but being native it handles these dumb windows 'innovations'15:22
GaryvdMmgz: does have %WINDIR%WinSxS\x86_Microsoft.VC90.CRT15:23
mgzyeah, so that's good and bad. good in that for people with win7 bazaar will just work15:24
GaryvdMmgz: You said qt stuff was broken?15:24
mgzbad in that we can't actually test to see if the installer's borked on that vm15:24
mgzyeah, basically everything in the subdir that /1) links a vc 9 runtime/ and /2) bundles a manifest/ is borked15:25
* GaryvdM starts installing a xp vm...15:25
mgzincluding pywintypes (which doesn't actually matter as ctypes works)15:25
mgzanyway, this is where I'm happy I'm not a build engineer, at least with coding you create stuff rather than just trying to keep it unbroken15:26
vilamgz: I think you're over-optimistic :)15:52
vilamgz: your last sentence could be reversed and still holds true for some people :)15:52
GaryvdMwoot: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tMdE4GmFaDQ15:52
GaryvdM Excremental Bazaar qlog selection behaviour.   ^^^^15:54
Glenjaminwhat key's are you pressing there?15:54
Glenjamini was trying to figure out if it was a bug report or a feature demo15:54
GaryvdMAll mouse draging15:55
Glenjaminoh15:55
Glenjaminoh i see, it only selects items in the history of the first selection15:55
GaryvdMYes15:55
vilaexcuse my poor english, but... excremental ?15:57
vilaex == not in ?15:58
GaryvdMexperimental15:58
Glenjaminthats my interpretation, i'm not convinced it's a real word15:58
Glenjaminexcremental actually means "pertaining to excrement"15:59
vilaweird freudian slip :)15:59
GaryvdMI can't spell..15:59
vilame neither :)16:01
=== deryck is now known as deryck[lunch]
mgzokay, written up the pain I experienced earlier today so I can forget about it this evening and do something fun instead16:29
jam1mgz: you can never forget :)16:38
mgzif I dream about being attacked by dlls tonight it's all bzr's fault16:39
awilkinsAh, dll hell16:40
* awilkins has repressed memories16:41
=== jam1 is now known as jam
=== Ursinha is now known as Ursinha-lunch
=== deryck[lunch] is now known as deryck
=== Ursinha-lunch is now known as Ursinha
GaryvdMWhats a good name for something that loads data, does some processing on that, and caches it in memory?17:42
Glenjaminload?17:43
GaryvdMIt's a object17:43
GaryvdMloader...17:43
GlenjaminLoader i guess, to me loading is going from source to somethig usable17:43
vilaloader and cache17:46
GaryvdMMaybe model?17:46
vilawhether the cache is embedded in the loader or in the caller...17:46
GaryvdMOn would init it, call .load(), and keep it as a cache17:47
GaryvdMalmost like a dom17:48
Glenjamindoes the fact that it's cached need to affect the naming?17:49
vilaCan it be created without loading ?17:50
GaryvdM(I'm trying so come up with a better name for LogGraphProvider17:50
Glenjaminah17:50
Glenjaminit's a black-box which provides a log graph, no?17:50
vilaOr can load be a from_something() class/static method ?17:50
GaryvdMvila: no17:51
vilaGaryvdM: It can't be updated either ?17:51
GaryvdMgp = LogGraphProvider([branches])17:51
GaryvdMgp.load()17:51
Glenjaminany reason load isn't implicit?17:52
vilagp hints at removing Log ;)17:52
vilaGaryvdM: on a totally different topic, what's up with the installers ?17:53
GaryvdMvila: it can be filterer, but not modified.17:53
mgzthat was a nice turn around, python issue 10003 fix committed already17:55
GaryvdMvila: we have a regression, caused by py2.6, that only affects some: bug 63246517:55
ubot5`Launchpad bug 632465 in Bazaar Windows Installers "bzr.exe tried to use the system msvcrt90.dll from system32, not the bundled one (affected: 2, heat: 16)" [Critical,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/63246517:55
GaryvdMbut otherwise good.17:56
mgzyeah, ideas welcome on that if you have any vila, I posted a summary in the mp17:56
vilaGaryvdM: so you plan to release a 2.2.1-2 and 2.3b1-2 ?17:56
mgzwe need a proper fix first unfortunately17:56
GaryvdMvila: yes, if we can fix..17:57
vilamgz: build on windows95 and let microsoft handle the compatibility with higher versions ? :-D17:57
mgzseriously, I build with a version of VC from the last millenium still by preference17:57
mgzbut we're pretty much stuck with this unless we want to go back to 2.5, and for various reasons (eg, the cert validation thing that just came up) we really want to be on 2.617:58
mgzI think rearranging the layout will probably do it, but it's quite a big change and risks breaking things for people who have the runtimes installed anyway and see no ill effects17:59
vilayes, keeping 2.6 is the way to go (sry alex), now will flattening lib into root be required for people running qbzr from sources ?18:00
vilais it a regression from 2.2.0 ?18:00
GaryvdMno, but from 2.118:00
vilameh18:00
vilahow was the 2.2.0 built and what broke the 2.2.1 ?18:01
mgz2.2.0 was also broken, but only a subset of users see it.18:01
GaryvdMGlenjamin: any reason load isn't implicit? - there was, but they have gone away.18:01
vilamgz: then don't fix it for 2.2.1, target 2.3b118:02
vilaor even 2.3b218:02
GaryvdM6m is a long time...18:02
vilawhat were the affected users doing so far ?18:02
GaryvdMmanually install the sdk18:03
mgzbut it's not obvious that that's the fix18:03
vilagreat, they still have the option to upgrade to 2.3b1 when we officially release it (which I'll do as soon as we have a working installer)18:04
mgzwe've had two reports of borkedness, but the thing I worry about it is the people most likely to hit it are non-developers (who won't have visual studio installed) and won't have any idea what the issue is beyond bzr apparently sucking18:04
mgzthe good bit being win 7 at least doesn't have the problem, and probably not vista either18:05
vilamgz: let's fix it on 2.3b1 for people more able to provide feedback *then* we can either release a 2.2.1-2 *or* 2.2.2 depending on how long it takes and how many people are affected18:06
mgzI don't have much to base an estimate of how many potential users will be affected though18:06
vilaGaryvdM: ^ sorry, didn't intend to exclude you18:06
vilaindeed, but not the majority right ?18:06
GaryvdMvila: np - was reading any way...18:07
mgzpretty sure not, and I'm happy with that as Gary showed it all worked in his VM18:07
vilaI think my point is: releasing is not the time to fix bugs, this should as light a process as possible (which it will never be anyway), so we shouldn't add to it18:08
vilaadd a 'be' where missing18:08
vilabecause if we delay releases *all* users are affected18:08
GaryvdMI'm going to try reproduce in a xp vm, but not tonight.18:09
vilaI know this is a hard time for windows installers and I fully appreciate the work you're doing though (and I strongly hope we will be able to replicate the build environment from that)18:10
GaryvdMvila: agree, thats why beta installers are important (and nightly builds would be better)18:10
vilaGaryvdM: see ? That's why we need to replicate :)18:11
vilaIdeally, releasing should just take the last nightly, rename it and be done.18:12
GaryvdMvila: but if we have a fix, then it should be included in the stable update.18:12
vilaGaryvdM: no, it depends on the fix18:13
vilaotherwise, you never release because there is always one more bug18:13
GaryvdMsure - and that comes down to judgement..18:13
vilasure18:14
vila698 people already downloaded bzr-2.2.1-setup.exe anyway18:15
GaryvdM:-018:16
vilaand 729 downloaded the source... who ? Tell me who ? gentoo ? Really ? They don't have their own repos with their patches ? Or do they keep them separate ?18:17
GaryvdMMay I revert the topic :-p  It can only be created with a load, and it cant be modified. hence it should be called ...?18:18
GlenjaminLogGraphLoader?18:19
mgzFooView18:19
GlenjaminLogGraphProvider().load() => LogGraph()18:19
GaryvdMOk - I think I'm going to go with : graph_viz = GraphVizLoader()18:21
GaryvdMcomputed = graph_viz.compute_lines(state)18:23
GaryvdMAnd once thats done, I'm going so move to bzrlib \o/18:24
GaryvdMAnd make a bunch of methods and attrs _18:27
* awilkins downloads the sources18:29
awilkinsSometimes18:29
awilkinsThere's a CentOS server I can't be bothered to mess about with packages for so I install from sources18:30
=== ubot5` is now known as ubot5
=== You're now known as ubuntulog
bialixhi, I need some help with English text for Bazaar Explorer23:17
fullermdbialix: Make sure you include the phrase "aluminum siding".23:19
* bialix notes23:19
bialixthanks fullermd23:19
* fullermd is helpful. Sorta.23:19
bialixsorta23:20

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