| euxneks | dang, now my server is hanging on "modprobe: FATAL: error inserting padlock_sha" | 00:03 |
|---|---|---|
| euxneks | nevermind, found a thread with a solution: http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1521336 | 00:04 |
| uvirtbot | New bug: #644009 in nagios3 (main) "package nagios3-common 3.0.6-2ubuntu1.1 failed to install/upgrade: subprocess post-installation script returned error exit status 1" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/644009 | 00:07 |
| sorush20 | hi | 00:14 |
| sorush20 | I'm installing joomla, I need to know how to install ftp.. | 00:16 |
| demonspork | sorush20, best is to use sftp | 00:17 |
| demonspork | it might already be there unless I missed something when I was installing my server | 00:18 |
| demonspork | I never installed it but I use it all the time | 00:18 |
| === ivoks is now known as ivoks-afk | ||
| === jjohansen is now known as jj-afk | ||
| uvirtbot | New bug: #647600 in mysql-dfsg-5.0 (universe) "package mysql-server-5.0 (not installed) failed to install/upgrade: subprocess new pre-installation script returned error exit status 1" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/647600 | 00:48 |
| qman__ | demonspork, sftp is part of openssh | 00:56 |
| qman__ | it is not installed by default | 00:56 |
| demonspork | ah, I guess I did set up openssh-server | 00:56 |
| demonspork | I didn't think of that | 00:57 |
| demonspork | in the meantime, I am trying like 5 different monitoring and graphing solutions and I have been dissappointed by all of them thus far | 00:57 |
| demonspork | I Can't even get munin to work~~` | 00:57 |
| qman__ | in any case, FTP is always a bad idea | 00:58 |
| qman__ | see: http://mywiki.wooledge.org/FtpMustDie | 00:58 |
| qman__ | just so you know, SNMP is not secure and should only be used on physically secured networks | 00:59 |
| qman__ | it doesn't open any holes by itself, but it gives an attacker every bit of information it gives you | 01:00 |
| qman__ | basically, SNMP shouldn't leave the server room, and definitely shouldn't be used on the same network as any wireless access points | 01:02 |
| qman__ | as far as suggestions for software to use, I don't use any on my network, but I've used nagios in the past to decent effect | 01:03 |
| qman__ | I wasn't impressed with cacti | 01:04 |
| demonspork | yeah, it is implemented on localhost | 01:06 |
| demonspork | see, my issue is that I am on a single server that I simply would like to monitor the local network port usage, generate some simple graphs about it and generate some graphs of CPU usage | 01:11 |
| demonspork | all of these monitoring systems are like YEAH WE CAN TALK WITH LIKE 200 DIFFERENT SERVERS AT ONCE AND SEE WHAT IS GOING ON BETWEEN THEM AND YOU CAN HOOK ME UP TO YOUR REFRIGERATOR AND GRAPH THE TEMPERATURE | 01:12 |
| demonspork | NO | 01:12 |
| demonspork | DO NOT WANT | 01:12 |
| qman__ | well, that's what they're for | 01:12 |
| qman__ | aggregate statistics | 01:12 |
| qman__ | you just want to monitor one server | 01:12 |
| demonspork | yeah | 01:12 |
| qman__ | for network usage, I use vnstat with the php frontend | 01:12 |
| demonspork | can that differentiate between usage on connections on different IP addresses on the same physical adapter? | 01:13 |
| qman__ | no, vnstat is for total bandwidth used | 01:13 |
| qman__ | there are other softwares though for per-IP usage | 01:14 |
| qman__ | trying to think of one in particular | 01:14 |
| demonspork | so I just spent like 2 days looking at stuff that is waaay more powerful than what I need, but at least the exposure could be useful in a year or 2 | 01:15 |
| demonspork | damnit, I just found an article with a list of what I need | 01:20 |
| demonspork | now I at least know the stuff to stay away from | 01:20 |
| demonspork | how do I gather data about how bad my host's static DNS is? | 01:26 |
| demonspork | hmm, nvm | 01:30 |
| demonspork | it looks like they may have actually fixed it | 01:30 |
| demonspork | when I first installed this server, I set up their static DNS, supposedly on site servar, for lookups. The lookups took 4-5 seconds to complete, especially reverse lookups, so a lot of things that use reverse lookups would just time out during login | 01:31 |
| demonspork | I quickly changed to 8.8.8.8 and 8.8.4.8, google's servars | 01:31 |
| demonspork | just because they was easy to remember | 01:31 |
| demonspork | and now I am testing them out, and their servers seem to be responding quickly now, within 0.016 seconds per lookup | 01:32 |
| demonspork | with the known previous issue, should I probably just stick with the google DNS or should I switch back to the on site and just write a script that checks the response time every 10 minutes and switches back to the google DNS if it takes too long for response? | 01:33 |
| demonspork | is the extra .05ms worth it? | 01:34 |
| uvirtbot | New bug: #653357 in samba (main) "package samba-common-bin 2:3.4.7~dfsg-1ubuntu3.2 failed to install/upgrade: subprocess installed post-installation script returned error exit status 2" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/653357 | 01:41 |
| Dravekx | I chrooted my users in their home directories. why would that cause php to stop working? | 01:42 |
| uvirtbot | New bug: #653362 in dovecot (main) "package mail-stack-delivery 1:1.2.12-1ubuntu7 failed to install/upgrade: subprocess new pre-installation script returned error exit status 1" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/653362 | 02:01 |
| SpamapS | seems like dovecot has a ton of bugs lately | 02:04 |
| Patrickdk | heh, googles dns servers cache the crap out of things, way more than I think they should | 02:11 |
| SpamapS | Patrickdk: they're pre-caching | 02:11 |
| Patrickdk | SpamapS, what version of dovcot? | 02:11 |
| SpamapS | Patrickdk: they've publicly stated lately that they are trying to cache nearly the entire DNS map. | 02:11 |
| Patrickdk | oh, 1.2.12 | 02:11 |
| Patrickdk | SpamapS, ya, I'm always getting stale as crap responses from google dns | 02:12 |
| demonspork | Dravekx, because the PHP binaries and all of the dependencies of such must be inside the chroot, there is no way for the user to use them unless they can see the binaries | 02:12 |
| Patrickdk | so I don't use them anymore | 02:12 |
| SpamapS | Patrickdk: stale? they're not stale if they're inside the TTL | 02:12 |
| SpamapS | wtf.. AT&T isn't letting my tethered android t-mobile phone connect on port 443. How lame. | 02:15 |
| * SpamapS is so happy they allow port 22 | 02:15 | |
| RoAkSoAx | kirkland: ping? | 02:22 |
| uvirtbot | New bug: #653370 in mysql-dfsg-5.1 (main) "package mysql-server-5.1 5.1.41-3ubuntu12.3 failed to install/upgrade:" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/653370 | 02:36 |
| RoyK | imho there is one reason not to use ubuntu - zfs | 02:37 |
| zanthir | Hello? | 02:50 |
| zanthir | I screwed up my OpenSSH-server install and would like to start over. Is there a command for that? Something like 'sudo aptitude uninstall openssh-server' or something? | 02:51 |
| RoyK | apt-get remove --purge ssh | 02:52 |
| zanthir | sweet | 02:52 |
| zanthir | You're my hero royk! | 02:52 |
| RoyK | then just rm -rf /etc/ssh just to make sure it's gone | 02:53 |
| zanthir | sure | 02:53 |
| zanthir | what does the -rf argument mean? | 02:53 |
| RoyK | man rm | 02:53 |
| zanthir | oh, right. | 02:53 |
| zanthir | huh? | 02:54 |
| RoyK | -r == recursive, -f == force | 02:54 |
| RoyK | apt-get install ssh will recreate that part | 02:54 |
| zanthir | should I do that, or open ssh? | 02:54 |
| RoyK | if you don't want to remove it, move it somewhere else | 02:55 |
| RoyK | if you're on a remote site, be careful | 02:55 |
| zanthir | I'm not. I'm at home. | 02:55 |
| RoyK | if you have local accesss to the box, no probs | 02:56 |
| zanthir | Right. That's the case. | 02:56 |
| * RoyK rarely tells people to do destructive things | 02:57 | |
| zanthir | *shrug* | 02:57 |
| zanthir | Worst case, I start over from scratch. I haven't set anything up successfully yet. Lol. | 02:57 |
| RoyK | dpkg/apt can be picky sometimes | 02:58 |
| zanthir | I'm using openssh-server instaed of ssh. You meant that though, right? | 02:58 |
| RoyK | anyway - if apt dosn't generate new ssh keys, you can do it yourself | 02:58 |
| RoyK | ssh is an alias | 02:58 |
| zanthir | oh. | 02:58 |
| zanthir | so either would have worked, even for the dir? | 02:59 |
| RoyK | just remember --purge to remove the old bits | 02:59 |
| zanthir | right, did it. Seems to have worked. | 02:59 |
| zanthir | testing now. | 02:59 |
| zanthir | hey, it worked! | 03:01 |
| RoyK | :) | 03:01 |
| zanthir | I mean, it would have worked the first time if I wasn't trying so hard, lol. I was following some guide and went in and was changing settings around, which I later found out is unnecessary, that it just works out of the box. | 03:01 |
| zanthir | Yup, totally works. Thanks again. | 03:12 |
| RoyK | np | 03:17 |
| Dravekx | when I have package updates and security updates, which is recommended: aptitude or apt-get? | 03:20 |
| qman__ | either is fine, the recommendation is to pick one and stick with it for everything | 03:21 |
| qman__ | most people here use and will supply help using apt-get | 03:21 |
| demonspork | woo, I just install the hp utilities for monitoring my ProLiant server | 03:21 |
| knolls | i'm installing ubuntuserver right now, i selected to install security updates automatically.. anyone think that might be a problem? | 03:21 |
| demonspork | I CAN FINALLY SEE TEMPERATURE INFO | 03:21 |
| demonspork | knolls, I usually don't simply to keep kernel updates out until I am ready for some downtime for restarts, I don't know for certain but I am pretty sure it is not a good idea to install a kernel update and then not restart the computer with the new kernel for a year | 03:23 |
| Dravekx | knolls, i always use manual. Someone once told me it wasn't wise to auto install updates. I'm not sure if that is correct, but manual works for me. | 03:23 |
| qman__ | demonspork, it has no effect | 03:23 |
| qman__ | newly installed kernels simply won't be used until reboot | 03:23 |
| knolls | demonspork: Dravekx: manually doing it works for me too, i thought that 'security updates' would never include anything that makes me reboot | 03:24 |
| qman__ | it isn't wise to auto install updates if you're in an environment where downtime is not an option | 03:24 |
| demonspork | yeah, but what about the kernel headers, when you build stuff against the kernel can it cause issues when the new headers are already installed but the new kernel isn't in place | 03:24 |
| qman__ | however, for me, automatic updates are the better choice | 03:24 |
| qman__ | because doing it manually, I tend to be lazy and forget to do it | 03:24 |
| knolls | downtime isn't a problem, as long as it's back up without any issues that i need to spend time sorting out | 03:25 |
| qman__ | demonspork, you shouldn't be building stuff on a production server anyway | 03:25 |
| demonspork | good point | 03:25 |
| demonspork | how much of a performance hit is a pae kernel instead of generic or something? | 03:25 |
| qman__ | significant for high performance computing, such as gaming or crunching numbers | 03:26 |
| qman__ | but for most uses the extra RAM is worth the hit | 03:26 |
| demonspork | well, I have 3GB of ram and the installer automatically gave me a PAE kernel | 03:26 |
| demonspork | I didn't even think about it | 03:27 |
| demonspork | ~~` | 03:27 |
| qman__ | it does on all systems by default now | 03:27 |
| demonspork | k | 03:27 |
| Dravekx | I found this: aptitude will automatically install "recommended" packages, while apt-get only installs "depended" packages. So with aptitude you might get a bit more bulk/features. | 03:28 |
| qman__ | at least every system I've tried, regardless of how much RAM is available or can be installed | 03:28 |
| qman__ | Dravekx, that's an option for both | 03:28 |
| demonspork | I run a minecraft server and then a multithreading cartographer image generator that takes 5 hours to run with 3 threads. The minecraft server can only run a single thread, so would moving away from a PAE kernel help me when the minecraft server is at 100% | 03:28 |
| qman__ | apt-get --no-install-recommends | 03:28 |
| Dravekx | ahh. thx | 03:29 |
| qman__ | I think -R is synonymous, but double check | 03:29 |
| qman__ | it's also configurable in /etc/apt | 03:29 |
| demonspork | because I can't get more than the 3GB in this server | 03:29 |
| qman__ | demonspork, you'll probably see a minor performance gain with non-PAE, but you'd have to measure to check | 03:30 |
| qman__ | worth trying in my opinion | 03:30 |
| demonspork | so how do I measure? | 03:30 |
| qman__ | choose a given task that takes considerable, consistent time to do | 03:30 |
| qman__ | time it with the time command | 03:30 |
| demonspork | the next image generation starts in 4.5 hours | 03:30 |
| qman__ | install the other kernel, boot from it, repeat | 03:30 |
| demonspork | oh, consistent time | 03:30 |
| demonspork | darn | 03:31 |
| demonspork | do you have any good examples of tasks | 03:31 |
| qman__ | that would be the only way to get accurate results | 03:31 |
| qman__ | you could just switch and see anecdotally if it helps | 03:31 |
| qman__ | you can always switch back | 03:31 |
| demonspork | yeah, but it is unlikely that anything will break? | 03:31 |
| qman__ | yeah, you only have 3GB of RAM anyway | 03:32 |
| demonspork | ok, so I am going to include that in my downtime soon | 03:32 |
| qman__ | unless you have some other device that requires significant address space | 03:32 |
| qman__ | if you had exactly 4GB, you'd lose some | 03:32 |
| qman__ | but not with 3GB | 03:33 |
| demonspork | k | 03:33 |
| qman__ | the way it works is, you only have 4GB of addressable space, so that includes RAM and all other devices that need to be addressed like memory | 03:34 |
| qman__ | some applications have a lot more than RAM, but typical PCs don't have more than 512MB of 'other' stuff | 03:34 |
| demonspork | well, now that I am monitoring my total bandwidth usage I can figure out if I am safe moving to the faster, metered port for my server | 03:35 |
| demonspork | :) | 03:36 |
| demonspork | I can also tell the temperature of my server | 03:36 |
| demonspork | but I can't get the HP management interface to work | 03:36 |
| demonspork | I don't even know where any config files are for it | 03:36 |
| demonspork | the hpsmh thing | 03:38 |
| demonspork | I don't know where to find documentation on running it | 03:38 |
| qman__ | yeah, I've got a compaq proliant, never figured out how to really do anything with the tools beyond installing them | 03:38 |
| qman__ | it quieted the fans down, good enough for me | 03:38 |
| demonspork | oh shiii, would it | 03:39 |
| demonspork | damnit | 03:39 |
| qman__ | went from hearing damage to vacuum cleaner | 03:39 |
| demonspork | I could have put this server in a closet on a T1 --- for free --- if it had been quiet enough | 03:39 |
| qman__ | still not something you want to sit next to for extended periods | 03:39 |
| demonspork | when I had it sitting in my basement while I was configuring it I wore noise cancelling headphones when it was on | 03:39 |
| demonspork | ahaha | 03:40 |
| demonspork | RED, the movie, looks awesome | 03:40 |
| uvirtbot | New bug: #653405 in rabbitmq-server (main) "package rabbitmq-server 1.7.2-1ubuntu1 failed to install/upgrade: subprocess installed post-installation script returned error exit status 1" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/653405 | 04:06 |
| tacomaster | can you point a dns server to its self as a nameserver? | 04:17 |
| qman__ | yes | 04:18 |
| tacomaster | ok ty | 04:18 |
| Dravekx | anyway to jail users with access to php so chroot is their userdir public_html? | 04:29 |
| Dravekx | I can jai them sftp, but then php access is denied. | 04:30 |
| Dravekx | jail* | 04:30 |
| qman__ | that's because php runs as www-data | 04:32 |
| qman__ | I'd suggest jailing them to their home directory, and having them cd into public_html | 04:33 |
| Dravekx | qman__, I have them jailed at the moment, but they can cd all around the system. | 04:33 |
| qman__ | then they're not jailed | 04:34 |
| Dravekx | maybe not 'jailed' | 04:34 |
| Dravekx | yeah. hmm. | 04:34 |
| Dravekx | qman__, should I use jailkit? Im looking for a good secure way to accomplish this. | 04:36 |
| qman__ | no, it's overcomplicated now that ssh has it built in | 04:36 |
| Dravekx | ok | 04:37 |
| === rgreening_ is now known as rgreening | ||
| Dravekx | qman__, what do I set the user's shell to? it says /bin/false... but that isnt right. | 04:50 |
| qman__ | that won't work with ssh, you need /usr/sbin/nologin | 04:52 |
| Dravekx | ah | 04:52 |
| Dravekx | almost.. getting the BASH error again. | 04:54 |
| qman__ | did you change the 'subsystem' line to internal-sftp? | 04:56 |
| Dravekx | lol no. | 04:57 |
| qman__ | #Subsystem sftp /usr/lib/openssh/sftp-server | 05:05 |
| qman__ | Subsystem sftp internal-sftp | 05:05 |
| _Techie_ | when recreating the grub.cfg, is the command sudo update-grub2 ? | 05:09 |
| qman__ | IIRC sudo update-grub | 05:10 |
| Dravekx | qman__, yeah.. got it. :) nice! it works. | 05:10 |
| Dravekx | php is working too, which is odd. It wasnt before. | 05:10 |
| demonspork | woo, final setup that does everything I want (except temperatures, because custom HP softwares) is Splunk for monitoring logs, events, processes, netstat and stuff, and BandwidthD for reporting on bandwidth usage on a per IP basis | 05:16 |
| demonspork | now I just need to write some codes that will generate reports that Splunk can use or monitor | 05:17 |
| Dravekx | I've heard good things about Splunk. | 05:18 |
| Dravekx | I love the tagline too. lol | 05:18 |
| Dravekx | "Finding your faults just like mom." | 05:18 |
| demonspork | yeah, I was warned ahead of time that they won't stop trying to contact you when you sign up to download | 05:19 |
| demonspork | like call the number you are required to give | 05:19 |
| demonspork | and they have already sent like 3 emails to the account I signed up with | 05:19 |
| === _hasan-H is now known as hasan-H | ||
| demonspork | now I need to find out what options get disabled when switched to the free | 05:19 |
| Dravekx | sounds like Microsoft when you download any of their trials. | 05:20 |
| demonspork | so, how do I make it so that not just anyone can connect to my splunk once the enterprise trial runs out? | 05:48 |
| uvirtbot | New bug: #653424 in rabbitmq-server (main) "apport bug reports for rabbitmq should include /var/log/rabbitmq/startup_log" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/653424 | 06:06 |
| qman__ | good question | 06:16 |
| qman__ | since it doesn't use apache (I'm guessing?) I'd resort to a firewall rule only allowing connections from your computer | 06:16 |
| qman__ | if that's not acceptable you could install a proxy, and only allow connections from that, and use htpasswd authentication on the proxy | 06:17 |
| qman__ | or you could make it only allow connections from localhost, then use an ssh tunnel | 06:18 |
| demonspork | qman__, the ssh tunnel is the one I hadn't thought of yet, thank you | 06:26 |
| demonspork | GAH, COMPUTERS: HOW DO THEY WORK | 06:27 |
| Dravekx | demonspork, you start,it works for a while (if you make it that far), it fails, and you start over. welcome to computers. :) | 06:32 |
| Dravekx | the thing I hate, is when you read and follow something, then it fails because the 'information' was invalid... so then you are stuck with garbage all over your server. LOL | 06:35 |
| demonspork | lol | 06:37 |
| toolbox | hi i am having some problems with fetchmail daemon can anyone advise? | 08:51 |
| knolls | when a particular domain name is sent to my hosting server, is there a way to open the site in a particular folder inside of /var/www instead of going directly to /var/www? | 09:46 |
| knolls | i'm using ubuntu-server with apache2 php5 sql-server and webmin is installed and working too | 09:47 |
| === AntORG_ is now known as AntORG | ||
| === [1]iclebyte is now known as iclebyte | ||
| qman__ | knolls, that's done with your virtualhost configuration | 10:21 |
| qman__ | to have a site show up based on domain name, use <Virtualhost www.example.com:80> | 10:22 |
| qman__ | also | 10:22 |
| qman__ | !webmin | 10:22 |
| ubottu | webmin is no longer supported in Debian and Ubuntu. It is not compatible with the way that Ubuntu packages handle configuration files, and is likely to cause unexpected issues with your system. See !ebox instead. | 10:22 |
| _Techie_ | if you however do still choose to use webmin | 10:23 |
| _Techie_ | never cloes the window while installing updates | 10:23 |
| _Techie_ | close* | 10:24 |
| knolls | tyvm qman__ & _Techie_ | 10:45 |
| uvirtbot | New bug: #653499 in lm-sensors (universe) "sensors report temperature of only one core" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/653499 | 11:06 |
| === [1]iclebyte is now known as iclebyte | ||
| === Mak_ is now known as MakX | ||
| === _Techie_ is now known as _TechAway_ | ||
| kinygos | hi..i wonder if anyone could spare a few moments...i've been trying to install RAID on my remote server which has no access to external media, but came with a 2nd physical disk in the box (not partitioned or mounted)...i've partitioned the second disk to match the first, configured degraded raid partitions on in, mounted each partition and copied all data across...i'm now struggling to install grub with Error 15 | 13:31 |
| kinygos | i'm at a loss as to where to turn...the / partition on my raid image contains /boot/grub/stage1...but clearly grub cannot see it...am i trying to install grub at the wrong time? | 13:33 |
| qman__ | I'm not sure with grub2, but with grub1 you had to change the config to match the new disk configuration | 13:35 |
| kinygos | i've pasted output from mount, fdisk -l, and the errors i get with grub to http://dpaste.com/251965/ | 13:35 |
| kinygos | qman__: it is grub 1 i'm trying to use....do you mean the grub config? | 13:36 |
| qman__ | grub2 is the default since karmic | 13:36 |
| qman__ | not a big fan myself, but that's beside the point | 13:36 |
| qman__ | pretty sure grub needs to know your new root disk in the config | 13:37 |
| qman__ | the UUID | 13:37 |
| kinygos | grub-install -v tells me i'm running version 0.97 :( | 13:38 |
| kinygos | so legacy grub | 13:38 |
| qman__ | ah | 13:38 |
| qman__ | well then, you need to change the root= in /boot/grub/menu.lst to your raid device | 13:38 |
| qman__ | it's (presumably) set to the UUID of /dev/sda right now | 13:38 |
| qman__ | then sudo update-grub, and reinstall it to the mbr | 13:39 |
| kinygos | qman__: thank you very much :) i'm looking at menu.lst now... | 13:39 |
| qman__ | it's a risky move without physical access though | 13:40 |
| qman__ | if it doesn't work you'll have to have them fix it for you | 13:40 |
| kinygos | i have a lights out box with remote access...i won't touch the file on sda, only the one on my raid | 13:41 |
| qman__ | ah, should be fine then | 13:42 |
| qman__ | you can always manually edit the menu for one-time boot to recover | 13:42 |
| RoyK | kinygos: still fighting, are you? :) | 13:48 |
| RoyK | kinygos: tried chrooting into /raid yet before installing grub? | 13:48 |
| kinygos | RoyK: i am indeed :( i did...but when i do that, it says it doesn't invalid device request | 13:50 |
| kinygos | RoyK: sorry, it says the Selected Disk does not exist when i try to root (hd1) | 13:50 |
| RoyK | is /proc mounted in the chroot? | 13:52 |
| RoyK | chroot /raid; mount /proc; grub-install .... | 13:52 |
| kinygos | it is, but it's empty!! | 13:52 |
| RoyK | then it's not mounted | 13:52 |
| kinygos | lol | 13:52 |
| RoyK | mount /proc and try again | 13:53 |
| kinygos | woah.... | 13:54 |
| kinygos | that's a new one on me...didn't know i had to do that...it's not got lots of stuff in it :) brb | 13:54 |
| * RoyK shrugs | 13:55 | |
| kinygos | same issue :( root (hd1,5), Error 21: selected disk does not exist | 13:55 |
| RoyK | kinygos: pastebin cat /proc/partitions | 13:55 |
| kinygos | RoyK: http://dpaste.com/251977/ | 13:56 |
| RoyK | kinygos: what is the grub-install commandline you're using? | 14:00 |
| kinygos | i wasn't using grub-install...i was entering grub to get a grub prompt, then entering 'root (hd1,5) | 14:01 |
| RoyK | use grub-install /dev/sdb | 14:01 |
| kinygos | ok | 14:01 |
| kinygos | brb | 14:01 |
| kinygos | /dev/sdb: Not found or not a block device | 14:02 |
| RoyK | /etc/init.d/udev start | 14:02 |
| kinygos | same error on grub-install | 14:02 |
| RoyK | or just install it from outside the chroot | 14:02 |
| RoyK | it shouldn't be a problem | 14:03 |
| kinygos | ok...one sec | 14:03 |
| RoyK | /dev/sdb is in /proc/partitions, so it should be there indeed | 14:03 |
| kinygos | ok, no error reported, and confirmation that (hd1) is /dev/sdb... | 14:03 |
| kinygos | i'll try and boot off that disk | 14:04 |
| kinygos | :( | 14:13 |
| RoyK | didn't work? | 14:14 |
| kinygos | i don't think so, now | 14:14 |
| kinygos | *no | 14:14 |
| RoyK | can't you just go there and insert an ubuntu CD yourself? | 14:14 |
| kinygos | on boot up, grub listed the uuid of for hd0 | 14:14 |
| RoyK | change the uuid to the device name (/dev/mdsomething) | 14:15 |
| kinygos | RoyK: unfortunately not :( i've asked if they can just keep a disk in there for me with the cd on lowest boot priority | 14:15 |
| RoyK | the uuid will be different on a new filesystem | 14:15 |
| kinygos | i did that on the menu.lst in the raid partition | 14:15 |
| RoyK | add a new entry on the current grub install with the mdsomething partition | 14:16 |
| kinygos | ok | 14:16 |
| kinygos | and select it from the grub boot menu...ok | 14:16 |
| kinygos | bizarre, my raid partitions are not mounted...they were when i previously connected | 14:17 |
| kinygos | cd .. | 14:17 |
| kinygos | (lol..oops) | 14:17 |
| RoyK | kinygos: you have rebooted .... if they aren't in /etc/fstab, they won't be mounted automatically | 14:17 |
| * RoyK sends kinygos to a linux newbies course | 14:18 | |
| kinygos | RoyK: ah, rebooted...lol, i only logged out last night :) | 14:18 |
| RoyK | kinygos: no, you just tried to reboot the host where you're trying to make this raid thing | 14:19 |
| kinygos | RoyK: my raid partitions have been renamed...now they're /dev/md_d5 instead of /dev/md5... | 14:21 |
| kinygos | RoyK: does that suggest that i've made a blunder somewhere? | 14:22 |
| RoyK | do you have /etc/mdadm.conf in there? | 14:22 |
| RoyK | IIRC that's deprecated | 14:22 |
| kinygos | i have /etc/mdadm/mdadm.conf... http://dpaste.com/251986/ | 14:23 |
| RoyK | wierd | 14:24 |
| RoyK | I've seen that come up earlier, though | 14:24 |
| kinygos | /dev/md5 is mysteriously missing from there, but they are all called /dev/md_d6 according to fdisk -l | 14:24 |
| RoyK | try changing the grub config to use those UUIDs | 14:24 |
| RoyK | never mind the device names | 14:25 |
| kinygos | ok | 14:25 |
| kinygos | hmm, those uuid's have a different format to those in /boot/grub/menu.lst | 14:27 |
| RoyK | try it anyway | 14:27 |
| RoyK | or perhaps try to remove the :'s | 14:27 |
| kinygos | menu.lst has 51a0c59f-d9bf-4728-bfa3-eb5edaadc93c, mdadm.conf has 890e84df:49191669:92060f38:876c2921 | 14:27 |
| RoyK | iirc the uuid is just a string | 14:27 |
| RoyK | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uuid | 14:28 |
| kinygos | rebooting now | 14:29 |
| kinygos | ok, selected the entry i created, it says file not found :( | 14:30 |
| kinygos | there should have been an entry in mdadm.conf for /dev/md5 | 14:30 |
| kinygos | that's the /boot partition in the raid | 14:30 |
| kinygos | sorry...that's the partition that was mounted on /boot in the raid | 14:31 |
| RoyK | sorry, I don't think I can be of much more help..... | 14:31 |
| kinygos | RoyK: you've been very helpful though...i have learnt a few things...i really appreciate your help and efforts | 14:32 |
| RoyK | :) | 14:32 |
| RoyK | kinygos: my advice is to go to the datacentre and install the box with 10.04 by hand | 14:33 |
| RoyK | kinygos: you've spent days trying to figure out this, and may possibly spend more days without much success | 14:33 |
| kinygos | RoyK: indeed, and leave the cd in the drive for future use :) | 14:34 |
| RoyK | indeed | 14:34 |
| RoyK | they probably won't charge you much as long as you do the work yourself | 14:34 |
| RoyK | but then, they might tell you 'it's not supported by them', but screw that | 14:35 |
| kinygos | indeed...although i have a long way to go before the server is ready for my application, and i may need a rebuild....i mean, i have to create users, install and configure apache, install and configure postgresql... | 14:35 |
| RoyK | There are two types of sysadmins, one that wants everything supported so that (s)he can blame someone when something goes wrong, and the other, that just sets up systems that don't fail that easily, and that knows what to do when they fail | 14:36 |
| kinygos | i don't like logging into the server with root | 14:36 |
| RoyK | kinygos: just learn as you go | 14:36 |
| kinygos | RoyK: i've learnt so much in the last week, really good stuff, and the people in this channel are awesome :) | 14:37 |
| RoyK | :) | 14:37 |
| RoyK | also, read through the bits you need in the ubuntu server guide | 14:38 |
| RoyK | it's quite good | 14:38 |
| kinygos | i'm totally on my own here with the technology in the business...and i'm a developer at heart | 14:38 |
| kinygos | omg...i didn't realise that was available online !! | 14:39 |
| RoyK | well, unix (or linux) may seem hard from someone that doesn't understand it, I know that, but once you understand how it works, it's quite nice to work with | 14:39 |
| RoyK | hehe | 14:39 |
| kinygos | i've already seen that (even though i've not had so much success with raid) | 14:40 |
| RoyK | everything is online these days :D | 14:40 |
| * RoyK installed his first linux box back in 1994 and most stuff wasn't very online at that time.. | 14:40 | |
| kinygos | anyways, RoyK, i've taken too much of your time today, i'm going to try a few more things and probably be back here tonight again | 14:41 |
| kinygos | i installed my first one around then too, on a sun box, was challenging...compiling the kernel to get apache in there...blimey | 14:42 |
| RoyK | kinygos: if you can take a few hours free monday, got to the datacentre and install the box from scratch. it will save you a lot of headache | 14:42 |
| kinygos | indeed...i do feel like i'm close though... | 14:43 |
| kinygos | and will be so gratifying if i manage it :) | 14:43 |
| RoyK | I've seen that md device naming problem somewhere before | 14:44 |
| RoyK | google for it | 14:44 |
| kinygos | i will indeed | 14:44 |
| kinygos | RoyK: lol..it gets better...i have a sneaking suspicion that the server doesn't have a cd-rom drive...i'll need to use a usb memory stick!! | 14:53 |
| RoyK | kirkland: you can probably use an usb cdrom | 14:54 |
| RoyK | or even burn the iso to a stick | 14:55 |
| pankaj_sharma | anyone here | 15:07 |
| RoyK | 15:09 | |
| pankaj_sharma | can anyone give me the link for how to setup mailserver | 15:12 |
| RoyK | !guide | 15:13 |
| RoyK | pankaj_sharma: the ubuntu server guide has a few things about that | 15:13 |
| pankaj_sharma | telnet smtp.google.com 25 why doesnt this work? | 15:22 |
| lnsk | hi,i had setup a djbdns resolver in my machine. how can i add some static entries to the dnscache ? | 15:48 |
| c3l | If I want to run ubuntu on my server. is it smarter to go with the 10.04 LTS, than the newer 10.10 soon released? Im probably not going to reinstall it frequently, so having lts is nice, but do I still get all software updates etc.? | 16:55 |
| ScottK | c3l: You will get security updates and important bug fixes on 10.04, but that's it. | 16:56 |
| ScottK | The point of having a release is to give people a stable system to use, so we don't generally update it. | 16:56 |
| ScottK | There are sometimes new versions of packages available in backports. | 16:56 |
| incorrect | best dynamic dns service for a server? | 16:56 |
| ScottK | !backports | 16:56 |
| ubottu | If new updated Ubuntu packages are built for an application, then they may go into Ubuntu Backports. See https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuBackports - See also !packaging | 16:56 |
| ScottK | incorrect: Really no such thing. Best not to need dynamic DNS for a server. | 16:57 |
| c3l | ah, so no newer versions of software, only bug and security fixes? | 16:57 |
| incorrect | ScottK, true, however i am being a cheap stake and moving to a broadband service with no static ips | 16:57 |
| ScottK | Yes. | 16:57 |
| ScottK | incorrect: No idea then. Dynamic DNS can never get but so good. | 16:58 |
| incorrect | well there have been plenty of services that have worked | 16:58 |
| ScottK | c3l: Except for backports (and a very few more general exceptions for bug fix updates), no. | 16:58 |
| incorrect | just some work better than others | 16:59 |
| incorrect | i just want to find my server easily to vpn back home | 16:59 |
| c3l | ScottK: okay, thanks. what's recommended to run on my server, the latest lts or the latest stable? | 17:00 |
| ScottK | c3l: The same will be true for 10.10 once it's released. The big difference is that you can stick with 10.04 for longer without upgrading it. | 17:00 |
| ScottK | c3l: It really depends. Unless you really need functionality from newer releases, most people use the LTS for servers. | 17:00 |
| RoyK | c3l: run an LTS release for a server - 10.04 is the latest - 8.04 also works well if you're worried about stability | 17:00 |
| amarcolino | hi anyone can direct me, got two machines that I want to turn into a load balancing cluster, on them will run vm images hosting low traffic websites, any information that can be provided on how to achieve this and keep them in sync? | 17:01 |
| amarcolino | hi anyone can direct me, got two machines that I want to turn into a load balancing cluster, on them will run vm images hosting low traffic websites, any information that can be provided on how to achieve this and keep them in sync? | 17:01 |
| amarcolino | sorry for that | 17:01 |
| RoyK | ScottK: security updates and bugfixes for 10.04.1, yes, but you can update to 10.04.2 with slightly more recent versions when that comes | 17:02 |
| c3l | maybe I should look into debian too. what is your, ubuntu folks, arguments for using ubuntu rather than its parent debian? | 17:02 |
| ScottK | RoyK: All 10.04.2 will be is the bug fix and security updates already released for 10.04.1. | 17:03 |
| _aegis | c3l: more frequent updates | 17:03 |
| RoyK | c3l: ubuntu and debian is basically the same, but some newer stuff are in ubuntu | 17:03 |
| ScottK | c3l: Ubuntu is also better at proactive security changes. | 17:03 |
| c3l | but if im going for long term stability, the more frequent dist updates wont affect me | 17:04 |
| c3l | ooh | 17:04 |
| RoyK | ScottK: not really - 10.04.1 will be supported, but only for bugfixes, whereas 10.04.2 will contain slightly newer code with potentially new functionality, albeit no psql9 or so | 17:04 |
| ScottK | RoyK: No. | 17:04 |
| ScottK | The point releases are just redone ISOs to make it possible to install without having to do a bazillion updates after install | 17:05 |
| RoyK | ScottK: and saying that ubuntu is more proactive on bugfixes is a bold statement | 17:05 |
| ScottK | There is no difference between (for example) a 10.04 install with all updates applied and 10.04.1 with all updates applied. | 17:05 |
| ScottK | RoyK: That isn't what I said. | 17:05 |
| RoyK | c3l: if in doubt, run 8.04, it works | 17:05 |
| ScottK | If you look at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Security/Features and then look at Debian you'll find that Ubuntu is far ahead on security features. | 17:06 |
| c3l | RoyK: or debian :) | 17:06 |
| ScottK | Also 10.04 is far ahead of 8.04 in terms of security features too. | 17:06 |
| RoyK | indeed | 17:06 |
| RoyK | c3l: I prefer ubunt myself, 8.04 on servers that I need to trust | 17:06 |
| ScottK | So unless there is a specific issue that someone is having with 10.04, I wouldn't recommend 8.04 anymore either. | 17:06 |
| RoyK | it's well tested - it works | 17:07 |
| c3l | RoyK: out of curiousity, why? (inputs and thoughts from different people is always nice) | 17:07 |
| c3l | so is debian, afaik its considered the most stable distro out there | 17:08 |
| RoyK | c3l: 8.04 is very well tested, 10.04 has only been around for half a year | 17:08 |
| amarcolino | anyone here can provide me information on how to approach my problem | 17:08 |
| RoyK | debian can be a little troublesome if you need new software | 17:08 |
| c3l | RoyK: how would you get new software on lets say 8.04? | 17:09 |
| ScottK | For pure stability, I would agree that Debian is very good. I wouldn't argue Ubuntu is better, but the combination of better security features and newer releases make Ubuntu a better server platform for me. | 17:09 |
| _aegis | my 8.04 LTS system got destroyed through the upgrade to 10.04... | 17:09 |
| ScottK | _aegis: Did you file bugs about it? | 17:09 |
| c3l | _aegis: never do dist upgrades ;) backup and reinstall | 17:09 |
| * ScottK has done several 8.04 -> 10.04 upgrades without issue. | 17:09 | |
| RoyK | c3l: you don't, but it's easier to ugrade to a new release than with debian, which releases a new version quite rarely | 17:09 |
| c3l | yeah, thier release cycle is really long | 17:10 |
| _aegis | ScottK: Didn't have a system to do that on (nor the time when I had to spend days trying to recover data)... I did see that the problems were well documented on launchpad... | 17:10 |
| ScottK | c3l: Why do you recommend reinstalling? Personally the only time I've ever had problems upgrading servers is when I knew I was doing something risky. | 17:10 |
| RoyK | just to clarify: I use 8.04 for things that needs to work and where old software works well, say dhcp or dns servers. I use 10.04 for everything else | 17:10 |
| ScottK | _aegis: OK. It's good you checked. | 17:10 |
| c3l | ScottK: youre basically the first one ive talked to that have not had trouble with dist upgrades :) | 17:11 |
| ScottK | Interesting. | 17:11 |
| RoyK | we have 20ish servers on 10.04 - the only problem I've seen so far is that it doesn't have g77 | 17:11 |
| ScottK | My test server is running 10.10 already (upgraded from 10.04 without issue) | 17:12 |
| c3l | oh, cool | 17:12 |
| RoyK | I was talking about production servers, not test boxes | 17:12 |
| ScottK | Sure. My production systems are 10.04 all upgraded from 8.04 without trouble. | 17:12 |
| RoyK | same here except for that little issue with g77 not being around anymore | 17:13 |
| RoyK | but then, that's not an ubuntu thing | 17:13 |
| RoyK | linux should have had zfs | 17:14 |
| RoyK | or perhaps the btrfs folks should have done a little better job | 17:14 |
| ScottK | Do we know how good a job they did yet? | 17:15 |
| ScottK | Seems it's still a bit work in progress. | 17:15 |
| RoyK | has been for a couple of years, yes | 17:15 |
| RoyK | no working raid[56] | 17:15 |
| RoyK | and the current code will rely on md for that part | 17:16 |
| RoyK | meaning no checksumming on the device level | 17:16 |
| arrrghhh | anyone stream video to a PS3 with their server...? I've been doing it for a while, but I'm having issues transcoding stuff on the fly so the PS3 can play it... | 17:42 |
| twister004 | hi guys.... im using racoon, setkey and shorewall to establish VPN tunnels with my ubuntu-server.... how can i enter a DNS name for the remote VPN gateway instead of an IP? | 18:02 |
| twister004 | for instance.... in racoon.conf, 'remote <ip address> {'.... is used to define remote location | 18:03 |
| twister004 | phase 1.... is it valid to replace the ip adress with DNS?> | 18:03 |
| twister004 | please advise | 18:03 |
| SpamapS | twister004: did you try putting the hostname in there? | 18:16 |
| twister004 | no...dont wana mess-up anything | 18:17 |
| twister004 | for racoon.conf... i can add it as remoteanonymous | 18:17 |
| guntbert | installing with a preseed file: most settings are followed by the installer - exception: the keyboard layout , where might be the error? preseed.cfg: http://pastebin.com/5yVvy84R | 18:20 |
| === twister004_ is now known as twister004 | ||
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| === MenZa is now known as lhavelund | ||
| derknecht | i need a robust open source groupware solution and need a recommendation. Has someone tried simply and can tell me if it is working well? | 18:34 |
| === twister004_ is now known as twister004 | ||
| RoyK | derknecht: zimbra | 18:36 |
| RoyK | it's not open in all ways, but it works well | 18:37 |
| guntbert | installing with a preseed file: most settings are followed by the installer - exception: the keyboard layout , where might be the error? preseed.cfg: http://pastebin.com/5yVvy84R | 18:38 |
| pankaj_sharma | someone tell me .. how to install courier-imap in ubuntu? | 18:49 |
| guntbert | pankaj_sharma: for dovecot there is help in the !serverguide | 18:51 |
| pankaj_sharma | guntbert: courier is not good for imap? | 18:51 |
| guntbert | pankaj_sharma: I didn't say that, but if you just need any imap server why not take the easy way and follow the serverguide? | 18:52 |
| pankaj_sharma | guntbert: ok | 18:53 |
| pankaj_sharma | !serverguide | 18:53 |
| ubottu | The Ubuntu server guide may be found at http://help.ubuntu.com/10.04/serverguide/C/ | 18:53 |
| === harrisonk_away is now known as harrisonk | ||
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| jforman | i am trying to figure out that while editing /etc/defaults/libvirt-binand adding an option to libvirtd_opts in that file, it is not taking affect. adding the "--listen" option doesnt seem to be working. i am runing 10.04 LTS | 19:34 |
| derknecht | hi there. i need a groupware solution which also do the mailbox and domain configuration (like zimbra does) but will prefere a open source solution. Any suggestions? Thanks | 20:15 |
| guntbert | installing with a preseed file: most settings are followed by the installer - exception: the keyboard layout , where might be the error? preseed.cfg: http://pastebin.com/5yVvy84R | 20:19 |
| vsMS | Hi. I will setup luzid on my Server. I Plan to install a softraid 1. I Found some hints tha this will be a Problem. Is it really so? | 20:20 |
| vsMS | Nobody? | 20:23 |
| ntenisOT | hello guys anyone with experience with eucalyptus to ask a question ? | 20:27 |
| ntenisOT | anyone? | 20:30 |
| uvirtbot | New bug: #653738 in clamav (main) "Microversion update SRU for clamav in Lucid" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/653738 | 20:41 |
| === _TechAway_ is now known as _Techie_ | ||
| uvirtbot | New bug: #653775 in samba (main) "other computers can't find my shared files" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/653775 | 21:56 |
| * RoyK is impressed | 22:10 | |
| RoyK | with the drives in lucid for paravirtualizating under hyper-v, ubuntu runs very well | 22:11 |
| ruben23 | hi guys any idea about this----> http://pastebin.com/RqEN6aRu | 22:30 |
| ruben23 | now i get this error after several of testing, please anyone--------> http://pastebin.com/Cs8SdTJ6 | 22:33 |
| Datz | has anyone read this? http://www.serverwatch.com/tutorials/article.php/3715071/Ubuntu-Server--Kernel-Configuration-Considerations.htm | 22:41 |
| Datz | if so, is it pretty accurate? | 22:41 |
| arrrghhh | can anyone help me out with a simple init script? i have it added, i can see it... permissions look right, everything is good but when i try to run it, ubuntu says "No such file or directory" - but i'm autocompleting it with tab so i KNOW it's there.... | 22:42 |
| ScottK | arrrghhh: Always use the full path in an init script. | 22:48 |
| arrrghhh | i was using the full path ScottK | 22:49 |
| ScottK | OK. That's the usual cause of such problems. | 22:49 |
| ScottK | And the path has a leading "/"? | 22:49 |
| arrrghhh | yep | 22:49 |
| arrrghhh | i'm just trying to call it manually | 22:49 |
| arrrghhh | let alone get it integrated with update-rc.d | 22:50 |
| arrrghhh | hrm | 22:51 |
| arrrghhh | when i try to run it with ./ I get a really odd error. | 22:51 |
| ScottK | Those are my usual 2 mistakes. | 22:51 |
| arrrghhh | hrm | 22:52 |
| arrrghhh | i opened the file with notepad++ on my windows box | 22:52 |
| arrrghhh | i wonder if that screwed it up | 22:52 |
| lifeless | yes | 22:52 |
| arrrghhh | i thought notepad++ would handle the file properly? | 22:53 |
| lifeless | did you save from it ? | 22:53 |
| arrrghhh | i know regular notepad will screw it up | 22:53 |
| arrrghhh | lifeless, no but i copied from it | 22:53 |
| lifeless | if it didn't write to it, it shouldn't affect it | 22:53 |
| arrrghhh | hrm | 22:53 |
| arrrghhh | yea i modified the file slightly with notepad++, then copied from it into nano in a ssh session... | 22:54 |
| ruben23 | hi how do i cehck the version of my ubuntu server..? | 22:56 |
| arrrghhh | when i do 'sudo ./pms-linux status' i get the same "No such file or directory" error. | 22:56 |
| arrrghhh | ruben23, well uname -r tells you kernel | 22:56 |
| ghaleb | hello, I'm looking for a solution I can create Diskless windows systems booted from linux servers, I have a preinstalled softwares that I don't want to redeploy each time PCs crashed and want applications to run using local diskless machines hardware resources. is it possible ? | 23:00 |
| arrrghhh | ghaleb, with LTSP yes, but this would boot Linux systems on the thin clients, not windows... | 23:01 |
| ghaleb | arrrghhh: I know LTSP but it's not what I want, I want to boot Windows to hosts and applications to be running on hosts hardware | 23:02 |
| arrrghhh | ruben23, there it is. lsb_release -a | 23:03 |
| arrrghhh | ruben23, check out this page - https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UsingTheTerminal | 23:03 |
| arrrghhh | ghaleb, not sure that's possible... we used to use novell to drop windows images to clients, but that was just an image server like clonezilla... was NOT a thin-client solution. | 23:04 |
| ghaleb | arrrghhh: yea I don't want a thin-client solution, I want to drop windows image, but not for installation, for desktop usage , | 23:05 |
| arrrghhh | ghaleb, not sure what you mean by that then... sounds like you do want a thin-client solution. clonezilla will drop images... | 23:06 |
| arrrghhh | lifeless, ScottK any other ideas? I'm at a loss here. | 23:07 |
| ghaleb | arrrghhh: I want users to connect their laptops and get his desktop booted from network, not from his drive | 23:07 |
| ScottK | arrrghhh: Not really. Sorry. | 23:08 |
| arrrghhh | weird | 23:08 |
| arrrghhh | ghaleb, so you do want them to work like thin-clients... | 23:09 |
| ghaleb | arrrghhh: yeah 'like' but as I know thin-clients will perform application at application server and get back results, I don't want that, I want to use clients hardware resources | 23:10 |
| ghaleb | arrrghhh: it's like LTSP in PXE | 23:10 |
| arrrghhh | ghaleb, sorry if it's possible i have no clue how. | 23:10 |
| ghaleb | arrrghhh: okay thank you very much, I saw it on youtube but don't know how do they pefrom | 23:11 |
| arrrghhh | ghaleb, interesting. i'd like to know how that's done, sounds like it'd be useful at work. | 23:12 |
| qman__ | Datz, 7.10 is horribly outdated, but the process used there would work with any version | 23:13 |
| ghaleb | arrrghhh: very much, you can get rid of re-installation of windows pain :) | 23:13 |
| arrrghhh | ghaleb, yea currently we use vmview... it's not bad but i think it's quite pricey. | 23:14 |
| ghaleb | arrrghhh: ah I see. save money in FOS :) | 23:14 |
| arrrghhh | yea, depending on the product money is no object to my company. which has its perks. | 23:15 |
| ghaleb | arrrghhh: I would be happy if I can boot linux for users it's totally possible , but I will get into applications support pain : | 23:15 |
| arrrghhh | yea, probably. | 23:15 |
| ruben23 | hi si tehre any package for eaccelerator on ubuntu server lucid...? | 23:23 |
| uvirtbot | New bug: #653828 in samba (main) "windows computers can't resolve samba share names in 10.04" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/653828 | 23:31 |
| _Techie_ | congratulations *buntu users, another PC shop has decided to offer boxes with *buntu pre installed | 23:59 |
| _Techie_ | http://www.modster-pc.co.nz/shop/ | 23:59 |
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