| alkisg | Good morning | 08:03 |
|---|---|---|
| freedom | does edubuntu builtin dhcp server? | 11:51 |
| freedom | how do i run ltsp after install? | 11:52 |
| === nixternal is now known as Guest8628 | ||
| === nixternal_ is now known as nixternal | ||
| kidar | hi alksig | 16:09 |
| kidar | hope u remember me. have a problem in the classroom that i set up | 16:10 |
| kidar | the pcs that have win98 have only 24mb ram. server has 3gig | 16:21 |
| kidar | is there a way of setting up server to give more mem | 16:22 |
| alkisg | To use 24MB PCs as ltsp clients? It's too little RAM, they won't boot with that | 16:28 |
| alkisg | 64MB is the lowest minimum for 10.04, and even then it won't work out of the box, but a few manual changes are needed in some startup scripts | 16:29 |
| alkisg | About 80MB is the "out of the box" minimum | 16:29 |
| kidar | how about booting straight from network card with these pc, is there anyway i can configure ltsp server to give sufficient ram to the stations | 16:54 |
| alkisg | kidar: there's no way to boot any recent linux version with those stations | 17:21 |
| alkisg | The only way to make them useful with linux would be to either use the ancient LTSP 4, which noone uses anymore, or use some ancient distro like Deli-linux, and then do remote X to the ltsp server | 17:22 |
| alkisg | (that's not LTSP anymore though) | 17:22 |
| kidar | or alternatively get more mem | 17:29 |
| kidar | in the system i also 3 pcs which have 128mb and xp. managed to get them to boot using the onboard nic but it is very slow | 17:31 |
| alkisg | Did you try LDM_DIRECTX=True? It gives speed at a security cost. | 17:32 |
| alkisg | Also, if you don't have gigabit network, it'd help to upgrade it, at least from the server to the switch. | 17:33 |
| kidar | server is gigabit rest 10/100 | 17:40 |
| kidar | regarding ldm no i did not try. where/ how to? also the school does not have internet so a solution for that too pls or alt i can bring it home again | 17:42 |
| kidar | by the way did not get ur name the last time :) | 17:42 |
| alkisg | The proper channel for ltsp questions is #ltsp, there's a link to the ltsp docs there | 17:51 |
| alkisg | Also the man page has some info about it: http://manpages.ubuntu.com/lts.conf | 17:51 |
| alkisg | Btw, for the gigabit server<=>switch connection to work, you'd need to disable flow control, otherwise it's 10 times slower: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP/FlowControl | 18:06 |
| highvoltage | alkisg: hey there, how are you doing? | 20:51 |
| alkisg | Hi highvoltage | 20:51 |
| * alkisg is watching a video about some new ministry plans *not* to have computer lessons in high schools in Greece..!!! | 20:52 | |
| mhall119 | that's sad to hear | 20:54 |
| mhall119 | what was the rationale? | 20:54 |
| alkisg | mhall119: are there computer lessons in secondary education in your country? | 20:54 |
| mhall119 | alkisg: not much, mostly tough typing when I went through school | 20:55 |
| alkisg | No idea about the rationale, the plans are not official yet - but I really wonder why they'd do that | 20:55 |
| mhall119 | I don't think it's any more indepthy now | 20:55 |
| highvoltage | alkisg: what? how's that possible!? | 20:55 |
| alkisg | Ugh. Here we even had some programming lessons in high schools (17 y.o.) | 20:55 |
| highvoltage | alkisg: I guess there'll probably be some objections :) | 20:55 |
| alkisg | I hope so... :) | 20:55 |
| mhall119 | I wish programming was a required topic for all high schools | 20:56 |
| mhall119 | in the near future, everybody is going to need to understand at least some of it | 20:56 |
| highvoltage | alkisg: I've been tasked to test NBD this week and look at its current status | 20:56 |
| alkisg | Now they say they won't have any computer lessons at all, not even optional ones, for students wanting to go to universities that involve programming... | 20:56 |
| alkisg | highvoltage: and? | 20:56 |
| highvoltage | alkisg: stgraber told me that you had some problems before in your implementations, I just wanted to check if there's something not already in the bug lists and if there's something else I should also note :) | 20:57 |
| alkisg | nbd-proxy is causing problems to lots of people, I'm not sure if the bug reports reflect that well enough, | 20:58 |
| alkisg | and there are some upstart problems which I worked around in a recent commit (trying up to 10 times - some clients make it on the 8th try!), | 20:58 |
| alkisg | other than those, nbd works well | 20:59 |
| highvoltage | ouch | 21:00 |
| alkisg | If I had to give an estimate, I'd say that about 5-10% of ltsp clients don't boot without those nbd-proxy/upstart-or-udev workarounds... :( | 21:01 |
| alkisg | About nbd-proxy, I think it'd be good if stgraber only used that for cluster installations by default, | 21:02 |
| highvoltage | oops, I see I just said nbd earlier, I meand nbd-proxy :) | 21:02 |
| alkisg | and for a proper solution to the udev problem, a more experienced hacker than me would be needed - I tried udevadm settle but it didn't work for me | 21:02 |
| highvoltage | *meant | 21:02 |
| highvoltage | (ugh Mondays) | 21:02 |
| alkisg | Also the "disabling compression by default" too would be better if it was only enabled for ltsp cluster, as it's causing a lot of slowdown | 21:04 |
| stgraber | hmm, maybe you're lucky not to go through the case where having compression causes kernel panic but it was really easy to reproduce with ltsp-live back in lucid | 21:06 |
| stgraber | no compression turned the kernel panic issue down to 0 so it was prefered to do it this way and let people re-compresss (at their own risk) than the other way around | 21:06 |
| alkisg | stgraber: I've reenabled compression for all schools here in greece, so I can report for about 1000 clients that they work OK | 21:07 |
| alkisg | Wasn't it working OK previously in 8.04-9.10? | 21:07 |
| stgraber | it was yes, something in the kernel made it break after that | 21:07 |
| stgraber | we still run with compression on for 8.04 and 9.10 (though we try to get rid of these ;)) | 21:08 |
| alkisg | stgraber: without compression it's much slower, e.g. fat clients need twice the time to boot | 21:08 |
| alkisg | In any case it's been working ok in all installations here | 21:08 |
| alkisg | (with compression on) | 21:09 |
| alkisg | Maybe those people that you refer to had networking problems, and compression == off just means that they'll get periodic crashes instead of nbd "notifying" them with kernel panics? | 21:10 |
| stgraber | I'll be re-testing with Natty but at least on lucid I could get kernel panics almost 50% of the time with two machines on a gigabit network, one being a regular core2 laptop as a server and the other an asus EEE as a client | 21:10 |
| * alkisg has seen that and it was solved when the people fixed their network sockets... | 21:10 | |
| stgraber | they were connected through two cat6 network cables (tested for gigabit without any issue) and didn't go through any router | 21:11 |
| stgraber | these issues seem to happen more often when the network speed was great | 21:11 |
| alkisg | Any realtek cards there? Maybe it was a driver issue.... | 21:11 |
| stgraber | intel e1000 both sides IIRC | 21:11 |
| alkisg | Hmmm weird that I never saw that problem... I've personally tested on gigabit networks too | 21:12 |
| stgraber | it was so reproducable that I couldn't even get my lucid benchmarks right just because it'd freeze half of the time ;) | 21:12 |
| alkisg | omg :) | 21:12 |
| stgraber | I tried with every single mksquashfs parameters to improve the situation and the only way I found that would restore stability to 100% was to turn off compression | 21:13 |
| alkisg | stgraber: ah, were you using nbd-proxy? | 21:13 |
| stgraber | then I managed to do over 2000 reboots in a row without any crash | 21:13 |
| alkisg | I've seen it fail many times, I'm not using it on greece at all | 21:13 |
| alkisg | So maybe it's a nbd-proxy/nbd compression combination problem | 21:13 |
| alkisg | If you could test without nbd-proxy on that environment where you were seeing the problem, that'd help... | 21:14 |
| stgraber | nbd-proxy was doing what it was supposed to in these cases. So running it would freeze in these cases and without it it wouldn't freeze immediately but doing a "find /" after boot would return I/O errors | 21:14 |
| alkisg | Except for clients not booting at all with nbd-proxy, I've also seen it have "negotiation problems" and "unexpected header in nbd reply" and stuff like that | 21:15 |
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