[06:02] <doctormo> Heh XKCD t-shirt on QI this week :-)
[06:07] <paultag> jussi, are you here, perchance?
[06:07] <paultag> jussi, I could use an IRC Council Member, right quick
[06:08] <paultag> I know nhandler is asleep
[06:10] <paultag> Grr. Well, jussi, nhandler -- #ubuntu-california is having trouble with their IRC logs being public ( as seen in their /topic: PLEASE NOTE: contrary to prior policy, logs of this channel will soon be kept and made available publically and permanently. ) -- can one of you set them straight?
[08:06] <kim0> morning o/
[08:06] <dpm> good morning everyone!
[08:06] <dpm> hey kim0 :)
[08:08] <kim0> dpm: howdy :)
[08:09] <dpm> only 6 days to release!
[08:09] <dpm> \o/
[08:10] <kim0> indeed yaay
[08:31] <czajkowski> aloha
[08:33] <dpm> morning czajkowski
[08:34] <dpm> hey czajkowski, when do you start your new job? Or have you already?
[08:35] <czajkowski> novemmber when I come back from UDS
[08:35] <czajkowski> I move over to the UK then
[08:36] <dpm> wow
[08:36] <dpm> anyway, congrats!
[08:36] <czajkowski> thanks
[08:36] <czajkowski> looking forward to it
[08:37] <dpm> :)
[08:38] <jussi> paultag: 2 things. first, you dont have a logbot, therefore you dont have public logs. :)
[08:39] <czajkowski> jussi: oh you missed the all out crazyness
[08:39] <czajkowski> jussi: let me invite you to the channel
[08:39] <czajkowski> *sigh*I went to bed at 4am and woke up to crazy shite
[08:39] <czajkowski> grrrrrrr
[08:40] <jussi> paultag: second, #ubuntu-california should be #ubuntu-us-ca (as per https://wiki.ubuntu.com/IRC/ChannelNaming )- perhaps consider forwarding to this.
[08:40] <dholbach> good morning
[08:40] <czajkowski> jussi: that is the least of our problems with that team
[08:40] <dpm> morning dholbach!
[08:40] <czajkowski> dholbach: aloha
[08:40] <jussi> czajkowski: no reason why we shouldnt fix it though :)
[08:41] <dholbach> hey dpm, hey czajkowski
[08:42] <czajkowski> jussi: I'd rather se some of the other stuff done first
[08:42] <czajkowski> they're recluctant to change
[10:03] <dholbach> hola randa
[10:03] <randa> hi dholbach
[10:03] <nigelb> morning folks
[11:23] <duanedesign> morning all
[11:40] <AlanBell> anyone running lucid with an american keyboard layout?
[11:40] <popey> heh
[11:40] <popey> I know where this is going
[11:40] <AlanBell> indeed :)
[11:40]  * popey pokes jcastro with a stick
[11:43] <jussi> not I says the jussi
[11:43] <jussi> oh and Hai AlanBell!
[11:43] <popey> actually, jussi you might be useful
[11:43] <popey> you using KDE and a .fi kb layout?
[11:43] <jussi> oh dear
[11:43] <jussi> yes
[11:43] <popey> do you have a combined PrtSc and SysRq key on your keyboard?
[11:43] <jussi> yes
[11:43] <popey> great!
[11:43] <duanedesign> hey jussi. get your netbook image downloaded?
[11:44] <jussi> duanedesign: no
[11:44] <popey> what does KDE do if you just press PrtSc on its own?
[11:44] <jussi> popey: brings up ksnapshot
[11:44] <popey> great!
[11:44] <popey> last question..
[11:44] <popey> What does ALT+PrScr do?
[11:44] <popey> (lies about last question)
[11:45] <AlanBell> jussi: this on Lucid?
[11:45] <jussi> alt+prtscr = nothing, altgr + prtscr = ksnapshot. yes, lucid
[11:45] <popey> in the maze of kde config screens is there an option to set that (stupid question, of course there is)
[11:45] <popey> ?
[11:46] <jussi> maze? lol, but yes, Im sure there is... let me look
[11:46] <popey> Time passes..
[11:47] <popey> You have been eaten by a cashew!
[11:47] <jussi> yep
[11:47] <jussi> there is, I was going to get a scrreenie, but you got impatient
[11:47] <popey> when you do altgr + prtscr do you get a full desktop screenshot?
[11:47] <popey> or just a window?
[11:48] <jussi> full desktop
[11:48] <popey> ok, thanks
[11:48] <popey> end of test
[11:48] <popey> You have passed!
[11:48] <jussi> wait a sec
[11:48] <popey> Congratulations, you are a KDE user.
[11:48] <jussi> 1 more peice of useful info
[11:48] <AlanBell> still want alt+prtscr on an American Gnome Lucid
[11:49] <jussi> Im using the backported packages with same kde as maverick
[11:49] <popey> AlanBell: live cd?
[11:49] <popey> ah
[11:49] <AlanBell> popey: this is going to end up being "it works on Windows . . ."
[11:49] <popey> it worked for years on gnome too
[11:49] <popey> only now I stupidly filed a bug about it, is it going to get broken
[11:49] <AlanBell> indeed
[11:49] <jussi> what is "it"?
[11:50] <popey> bug 642792
[11:50] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 642792 in metacity (Ubuntu Maverick) (and 2 other projects) "ALT+PrtSc not recognised: breaks built-in screenshot function (affects: 10) (dups: 2) (heat: 64)" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/642792
[11:50] <AlanBell> alt+prtscr *always* did a screen capture of the currenly active window
[11:50] <AlanBell> does it on windows and works exactly the same on Ubuntu
[11:51] <AlanBell> in Maverick it got broken
[11:52] <AlanBell> "If Alt+PrintScreen triggers a screenshot, that's indeed a bug." is the last comment on the bug
[11:53] <jussi> hehe
[11:53] <jussi> I just tried to make a shortcut to do it, got: "The key you just pressed is not supported by Qt" - perhaps its got to do with reisub ?
[12:01] <AlanBell> well yes, but it always used to work
[12:04] <jussi> AlanBell: popey. ok. let me know if you need me to test something else
[12:04] <popey> thanks!
[13:22] <jussi> popey: jfyi, Im currently working on that wbchat bug - looking at a way of doing it without the second channel.
[13:23] <jussi> Makes it hugely more user friendly.
[13:23] <jussi> popey: BTW, did you actually file the bug?
[13:44] <popey> jussi: no!
[13:45] <czajkowski> popey: has a very long to do list
[13:45] <popey> i cant even remember what the bug was now
[13:45] <popey> oh, i got dumped in the proxy channel with odd instructins wasnt it?
[13:48] <czajkowski> really wish linkedin requests fro ubuntu folks came with a irc nick
[13:48] <czajkowski> otherwise I've no flipping idea who they are :(
[13:53] <jussi> popey: yeah that one. Im on it in anycase
[13:53] <popey> cool
[13:54] <popey> czajkowski: i generally reject most linkedin requests from ubuntu people because I haven't worked with them
[13:54] <czajkowski> smart
[13:54] <jussi> popey: me also
[14:00]  * popey farts on webupd8.org
[14:00] <popey> the people who run that are clearly imbeciles
[14:00] <popey> http://www.webupd8.org/2010/05/how-to-upgrade-to-ubuntu-1010-maverick.html  is mental
[14:01] <czajkowski> grin
[14:01] <popey> seriously
[14:02] <czajkowski> oh I don't doubt you, I am grinning at the way you sum it up so perfectly
[14:02] <popey> it recommands a search/replace of sources.list, then a dist-upgrade, _then_ (for good measure) an update-manager -d
[14:02] <popey> crackpots, utter crackpots
[14:02] <czajkowski> and someone will read that
[14:02] <czajkowski> and think it's true
[14:02] <jcastro> popey: looking for me?
[14:03] <popey> uhm, ooh, yes!
[14:03] <popey> jcastro: do you have a USA layout keyboard, running Ubuntu 10.04 perchance?
[14:05] <vish> hrm, whats that smell!
[14:06] <popey> Prunes!
[14:07] <paultag> jussi, can you please say that to them?
[14:07] <paultag> jussi, those are the two things czajkowski and I ( and the loco council ) are trying to change
[14:08] <czajkowski> paultag: invite jussi to channel
[14:08] <paultag> czajkowski, yes ma'am :)
[14:09] <jcastro> popey: not handy
[14:09] <jcastro> upstairs I do
[14:10] <vish> popey: USA layout here..
[14:11] <popey> vish: 10.04?
[14:11] <popey> jcastro: its a very quick and easy test
[14:11] <vish> popey: oh gah! missed that part :s  nope 10.10
[14:12] <popey> basically can someone running 10.04 with USA keyboard layout please check that their PrtScrn key is also their SysRq key, and _if_ it is, logon to 10.04 GNOME based Ubuntu and press Alt+PrtScrn and tell us what happens.
[14:12] <nigelb> hrm, no sysRq on this keyboard
[14:12] <popey> nigelb: USA Keyboard layout?
[14:12] <nigelb> but al+Prnt screen gives me screenshot :p
[14:12] <vish> popey: it used to work on 10.04 i know for sure, since i used it :)
[14:12] <nigelb> popey: supposed to be
[14:12] <popey> nigelb: 10.04?
[14:12] <nigelb> yup!
[14:13] <popey> Great!
[14:13] <popey> so it's not specific to GB keyboard layout
[14:13] <popey> bug 642792
[14:13] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 642792 in metacity (Ubuntu Maverick) (and 2 other projects) "ALT+PrtSc not recognised: breaks built-in screenshot function (affects: 13) (dups: 2) (heat: 78)" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/642792
[14:13] <nigelb> \o/
[14:13] <popey> ah, one minute
[14:14] <popey> nigelb: do you get a full desktop screenshot or window?
[14:14] <nigelb> Window
[14:14] <popey> WIN!
[14:14] <vish> oh! i have the earlier lucid kernel too..
[14:14] <nigelb> I just installed chromium.  It feels dirty and *too much* space!
[14:14] <popey> if you woudln't mind leaving a comment that you're on 10.04, USA keyboard layout and Alt+PrScr does indeed take a screenshot, so this is not limited to GB keyboard layout as suggested by martin pitt in comment #16
[14:14] <nigelb> will do :)
[14:15] <duanedesign> popey: i remember nhandler complaining of this bug the other day
[14:15] <vish> doctormo: not cool!
[14:17] <AlanBell> excellent, I feared that alt+prtscr was going to be a regression for en_GB only
[14:17] <nigelb> wait, isn't it?
[14:17] <nigelb> I mean, it works okay on usa keyboards (as it just did for me)
[14:17] <nigelb> popey: ^^
[14:17] <AlanBell> yeah, works on GB keyboards in *lucid*
[14:17] <nigelb> oh, not in mav?
[14:18] <nigelb> Ah!
[14:18] <AlanBell> broken in maverick
[14:18] <popey> feel free to test in maverick :)
[14:18] <vish> nigelb: maverick bug
[14:18]  * nigelb comments
[14:18] <nigelb> ok, so I have to say it was tested in lucid
[14:18]  * nigelb clisks
[14:18] <nigelb> *clicks* GOSH
[14:18] <nigelb> popey: done
[14:19]  * JFo gives nigelb some coffee
[14:19] <vish> nigelb: yea you say that and i say.. it doesnt work for me on USA layout on maverick ;)
[14:19] <nigelb> vish: win! :)
[14:19] <JFo> sad part is, from the kernel side, it is behaving as we expect
[14:19] <vish> nigelb: we need to tag team to rustle JFo into giving us a win ;p
[14:19] <JFo> :-/
[14:19]  * nigelb hugs JFo 
[14:19]  * JFo hugs nige
[14:20] <JFo> sigh
[14:20] <nigelb> vish: weren't you planning on locking JFo in a room till he fixed your kernel
[14:20] <JFo> tab fail
[14:20]  * nigelb hads JFo half the coffee :p
[14:20] <JFo> lol
[14:20] <JFo> thx :-)
[14:20] <nigelb> looks like you need it more than me
[14:20]  * nigelb is just fidgety at end of day
[14:21] <nigelb> also, rain experiment success today
[14:21] <nigelb> I wore shoes and it rains.  Sigh.
[14:27] <AlanBell> argh, it was a totally intentional breakage (or fixage depending on point of view) in the kernel
[14:27] <AlanBell> we have been using a leaking scancode
[14:28] <nigelb> JFo: ^^ so that's what behaving as we expect means :D
[14:28] <AlanBell> http://kernel.ubuntu.com/git?p=ubuntu/ubuntu-maverick.git;a=commitdiff;h=97f5f0cd8cd0a05449cbb77d1e6f02e026875802
[14:28] <AlanBell> as per the comments on the git commit
[14:28] <nigelb> Right.  Now we know.
[14:29] <nigelb> :/
[14:29] <nigelb> Do you have proof (or a patch) which would actually identify this as a
[14:29] <nigelb> kernel change? That would be helpful to actually understand what's
[14:29] <nigelb> going on here.
[14:29] <nigelb> NOW WE DO! :p
[14:30] <AlanBell> what harm were the leaky sysrq scancodes doing!
[14:30] <nigelb> lol
[14:32] <popey> a bad analogy is like a leaky scancode
[14:33] <nigelb> hahaha
[14:33] <JFo> AlanBell, no, we expect something else to trap Alt-PrtScr
[14:33] <JFo> what we look for is SysRq
[14:34] <JFo> but that is normally a Fn-SysRq
[14:34] <JFo> at least that is what I am told
[14:34] <nigelb> exactly!
[14:34] <JFo> shrug*
[14:34] <popey> well, might be on laptops
[14:34] <popey> not on desktops
[14:34] <JFo> yes, but we expect them to come different ways
[14:34] <AlanBell> I always thought ctrl+alt+prtscr was sysrq
[14:34] <JFo> it won't always be Alt for example
[14:35] <JFo> AlanBell, not always
[14:35] <popey> ahh
[14:35]  * JFo digs for some reference...
[14:36] <AlanBell> JFo: is there a reason from the kernel point of view that alt+prtscr shouldn't be passed through to userspace?
[14:37] <JFo> yes, kernel doesn't handle printscreen to my knowledge... again, we are relying on my memory of what was discussed about this bug the other day :)
[14:37] <JFo> and I had a massive headache at the time
[14:37] <JFo> but if I remember
[14:37] <JFo> there isn't really a reason for us to look for it
[14:38] <JFo> as printscreen is a userspace (usually) command
[14:38] <JFo> but I could just be misrepresenting what was said
[14:38] <JFo> so don't take me as definitive
[14:38] <AlanBell> was it discussed in -kernel?
[14:38]  * JFo continues digging for the reference
[14:39] <JFo> AlanBell, I believe so, yes
[14:39] <AlanBell> any idea what day?
[14:39] <JFo> would have been last week right popey?
[14:39] <JFo> hmmm, not sure. My headache lasted from Wednesday to Sunday
[14:39] <popey> :)
[14:39] <JFo> so things are a blur
[14:39] <popey> yeah
[14:40] <AlanBell> http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2010/09/21/%23ubuntu-kernel.html#t18:54
[14:41] <AlanBell> http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2010/09/29/%23ubuntu-kernel.html#t14:27
[14:41] <AlanBell> actual discussion
[14:41] <nigelb> AlanBell: poke? could you provide a bit of moderator assistance with something?
[14:42] <AlanBell> possibly
[14:42]  * nigelb pms
[14:42] <JFo> yep, told you I was probably misrepresenting the conversation :)
[14:42] <JFo> so now that I read that, I rememer
[14:43] <JFo> remember*
[14:43]  * popey hugs jcastro 
[14:43] <jcastro> jaaaaaaaaaaayyyyyyyy ffffffffffoooooooooooooooooo
[14:43]  * JFo hides
[14:43] <jcastro> I saw a guy on TV that looks like jfo
[14:43] <JFo> hah, really?
[14:43] <jcastro> and I was like "man, JFo"
[14:43] <jcastro> yeah
[14:44] <JFo> ruggedly handsome... nice hair
[14:44] <JFo> fat
[14:44] <jcastro> ever watch deadwood?
[14:44] <JFo> just sayin'
[14:44] <JFo> jcastro, yep
[14:44] <jcastro> the bouncer on deadwood
[14:44] <JFo> Al Swearingen is my hero ;-)
[14:44] <popey> JFo: dude, you're not fat!
[14:44] <popey> you're "festively plump"
[14:44] <JFo> ah, yeah! I remember him
[14:44] <jcastro> haha yeah, I haven't seen it in a while, I watched the first part of one
[14:44] <JFo> popey, I'm right jolly
[14:45] <popey> someone uploaded a video of me filmed in 16:9 then accidentially squashed to 4:3. It makes me look much thinner.
[14:45] <jcastro> hahaha
[14:45] <JFo> oooh, now there's an idea
[14:45]  * JFo has all of his 'historical footage' changed
[14:48] <popey> anyone here use gwibber?
[14:50] <czajkowski> yes
[14:50] <czajkowski> me
[14:50]  * popey adds czajkowski to his list
[14:51]  * akgraner <3's gwibber
[14:51] <JFo> akgraner == crackhead
[14:51] <czajkowski> popey: is this a good list or a bad list...
[14:52] <akgraner> JFo, :-P
[14:52] <JFo> :)
[14:52]  * JFo tests out his Lil Jon loops
[14:52] <akgraner> JFo, I hate you!!!
[14:53] <JFo> dude, these are cool
[14:53] <akgraner> (but in the best way possible!)
[14:53] <JFo> WHAT?!
[14:53] <JFo> YEAH!!
[14:53] <akgraner> Just when I thought that stupid song would be forgotten Pete set is as his ring tone
[14:53] <JFo> hahahahahaha
[14:53] <JFo> that is awesome
[14:53] <akgraner> no it's not
[14:54] <JFo> I just bought 68 Lil Jon vocal samples
[14:54] <JFo> I can make any song a Lil Jon remix
[14:54]  * akgraner rolls my eyes
[14:59] <nigelb> akgraner: heh
[15:03] <AlanBell> on my laptop fn+prtscr doesn't do sysrq
[15:03] <AlanBell> it just picks it up as prtscr and does a full screen screenshot
[15:04] <highvoltage> AlanBell: :(
[15:12] <akgraner> czajkowski, I was editing the wiki when you saved it - did it not tell you I was in it - the UDS-N one?
[15:12] <czajkowski> nope
[15:12] <akgraner> grrrrr
[15:13] <czajkowski> perhaps you were editing it when I was :)
[15:13] <akgraner> It didn't tell me anyone was in it either
[15:13] <Pendulum> maybe you both hit edit at the same time?
[15:14] <akgraner> no worries - just was wondering  - I'm in there now
[15:14] <JFo> you both suck equally
[15:14] <JFo> :-D
[15:14] <JFo> just sayin'
[15:14]  * nigelb ^ 5 JFo 
[15:16] <czajkowski> JFo: I will smack you :)
[15:17] <JFo> I ain't skeered
[15:17] <nigelb> that is one fight I'd like to see :p
[15:17] <nigelb> czajkowski vs JFo :p
[15:17]  * JFo wins because I would cry
[15:17] <czajkowski> lol
[15:17] <JFo> :)
[15:18] <nigelb> she might smash you to pulp too :D
[15:18] <JFo> :-(
[15:18] <czajkowski> nigelb: oi oi I'm not that violent
[15:18]  * nigelb notes the *that* modifier :p
[15:18] <dholbach> james_w, thanks
[15:18] <nigelb> LOL
[15:18] <czajkowski> plus JFo doesn't fill my ibox up with emails
[15:18] <czajkowski> always a bonus
[15:18] <james_w> dholbach: np
[15:18] <nigelb> czajkowski: valid point indeed.
[15:18] <JFo> that is because you aren't subscribed to kernel bugs
[15:19] <JFo> otherwise I'd be dead already
[15:19] <czajkowski> and clearly Ted gould isn't up yet my inbox hasn't been hammered by him today
[15:21] <dholbach> hey jono, hey jcastro
[15:22] <jcastro> hi dholbach
[15:23] <jcastro> ok, can I get a hand finding people for openweek?
[15:23] <akgraner> jcastro, there are still 10 slots open for open week -
[15:23] <jcastro> people are being lame
[15:23] <jcastro> yes, I was just going to bring that up.
[15:23] <jcastro> let me reping devel
[15:23] <akgraner> I haven't back form the managers I sent the email to last week
[15:24] <jcastro> well
[15:24] <jcastro> I was hoping for more non-developer participation
[15:25] <akgraner> I know but I thought that could volunteer someone from their teams for QA's if nothing else
[15:25] <nigelb> akgraner: lets give it a more thorough look
[15:25] <nigelb> I'm sure we can bag more people
[15:25] <nigelb> work has finally released that rope they had around my neck
[15:25] <jcastro> I will send a plea to the lists now.
[15:26] <jcastro> then I will kill people
[15:26] <jcastro> (with love I mean)
[15:26] <nigelb> right, we know.
[15:26] <akgraner> jcastro, hehe
[15:28] <duanedesign> jcastro: i am trying to settle on a topic. would a session on screencast and the screencast team be appropriate?
[15:28] <nigelb> duanedesign: You can start off on how to use it, and then say how people can help
[15:29] <Technoviking> jcastro: Supermirco has (or use to) a home raid enclousure with 5 drive bays and a mini ATX motherboard with Linux supported raid
[15:29] <jcastro> duanedesign: that would be awesome
[15:29] <jcastro> just a general "how to do screencasts"
[15:29] <Technoviking> jcastro: can't remember the model off the top of my head
[15:30] <duanedesign> nigelb: jcastro sounds good
[15:31] <Technoviking> jcastro: But I would just buy a drobo, unless you want to build one, the drobo is not as Linux friendly, but is more spouce safe if it has problems
[15:31]  * popey stabs his drobo
[15:31] <popey> frequently
[15:31] <jcastro> I wanted to get a drobo
[15:31] <popey> dont
[15:31] <jcastro> but they appear to be slow
[15:31] <jcastro> right
[15:31] <popey> they are
[15:31] <jcastro> every drobo owner is like "don't"
[15:31] <popey> the _single_ thing that drobo has for it is that it automagically expands/contracts when disks are inserted
[15:32] <popey> i have actually shrunk mine down by yanking one disk out at a time
[15:32] <popey> its down to two x 500GB disks now
[15:32] <jcastro> to make it faster?
[15:32] <popey> nah, to make me use it less
[15:32] <popey> i dont trust it
[15:32] <jcastro> hah
[15:32] <jcastro> nice
[15:33] <popey> and i wanted the 500G disks out of it
[15:35] <JFo> I have 4 2Tb disks in my desktop now
[15:35] <Technoviking> Here is the Supermicro in the mini-tower http://www.supermicro.com/products/system/tower/5035/SYS-5035L-I.cfm, Can only handle four drive so only RAID 0,1,5 no 6 or 10
[15:38] <akgraner> jcastro, priceless - "the overwhelming goodness of the community" :-)
[15:38] <jcastro> what I really want to say is "why does everyone suck!"
[15:38] <jcastro> but I put that part of my personality away, hahah
[15:38] <jcastro> j/k
[15:38] <duanedesign> :D
[15:39] <JFo> never hide who you are jcastro :)
[15:39] <jcastro> I feel like daniel today
[15:39] <jcastro> either hugging something to death or being angry
[15:39] <jcastro> :p
[15:39] <nigelb> jcastro: dholbach syndrome?
[15:40] <jcastro> symptoms include: desire to hug inanimate objects
[15:40] <Technoviking> popey: been resisting the urge to say the some articles on omgubuntu can also be crackful and dangerous also :)
[15:40] <popey> heh
[15:40] <jcastro> random vegetarianism
[15:40]  * popey resists the urge to mention the forums ;)
[15:40] <nigelb> jcastro: and taking vactions to places starting with "I"
[15:40] <Technoviking> popey: sorry, that horse is dead:)
[15:40] <popey> heh
[15:41]  * popey puts the elephant gun away
[15:41] <jussi> jcastro: go hug a tree :D
[15:42] <Technoviking> I have decided what make the forums great compared to the wiki or stackexchange is that Google (and the other search)  have an easy time index it
[15:44] <Technoviking> I would really like to see the wiki or stackexchange show up higher (or it all) in Google searches
[16:01] <jono> kim0, can you give me a min, and then lets do the call?
[16:01] <kim0> jono: tyt
[16:05] <czajkowski> Technoviking: valid point
[16:06] <jcastro> Technoviking: it will once the proper domain is in place, SE has sick google juice
[16:07] <jcastro> though, 6 years vs. 60 days of indexed content
[16:09] <Technoviking> jcastro: the forum will probably have to restart with a new index after we upgrade to vB4.
[16:09] <Technoviking> anyone else getting a flood of messages from ubuntu-devel?
[16:10] <jcastro> Technoviking: that would be good I think
[16:10] <popey> yeah, approvals Technoviking
[16:10] <popey> sorry, moderated messages I mean
[16:10] <jcastro> sometimes I find an old thread in google that should be buried
[16:17] <nigelb> popey: I love your reply to the ubuntu fonts ffe :)
[16:18] <Technoviking> we will hopeful be adding an "Helpful Answer" plugin, to help rate forum posts in vB4
[16:19] <nigelb> and someday we'll put 301 redirect to stackexchange.
[16:19]  * nigelb runs.  Fast.
[16:20] <nigelb> j/k :)
[16:20] <Technoviking> nigelb: sigh
[16:20]  * nigelb hugs Technoviking :)
[16:22] <Technoviking> nigelb: stackexchange is new and shiny, and a great tool, but don't throw away the forums just yet;)
[16:23] <czajkowski> jcastro: has it ever been brought up that having open week the week after release is just not a good time ? Many people are shattered after the previous few weeks of work and that is their unwind sleep week ?
[16:23] <JFo> heh, I seem to recall asking that same question
[16:23] <nigelb> Technoviking: I was kidding.  I don't like either.
[16:23] <akgraner> czajkowski, yep several times
[16:23] <jcastro> czajkowski: we put it there on purpose to get the buzz for release
[16:23] <nigelb> but open week isn't for developers
[16:24] <jcastro> ^^^
[16:24] <nigelb> its more for newcomers
[16:24] <paultag> hey doctormo, wake up :)
[16:24] <Pendulum> nigelb: yeah, but it makes it harder to find people to teach
[16:24] <nigelb> and the presentations are supposed to turn the release interest into contribution interest
[16:24] <nigelb> (that's how I started contributing to Ubuntu :D)
[16:24] <paultag> nigelb, OI! You started with the UBT and don't forget it
[16:24] <czajkowski> nigelb: true, but you neeed non newbiews to give the talks
[16:25] <paultag> Be back in a sec
[16:25] <jcastro> Pendulum: we can't find contributors because people are being lazy, not because of the time. :p
[16:25] <nigelb> paultag: yes, but to the wider community, after an UOW
[16:25] <czajkowski> jcastro: but how does that get buzz for the release? it happens after the release or am I being thick and missing something
[16:25] <jcastro> ok lazy is a strong word
[16:25] <akgraner> So what about "so you want to contribute - how to find your place in the community"
[16:25] <paultag> doctormo, pop by ubuntustudio-devel, I'm talking with scott-work about the ubuntu studio website. I've just volunteered you
[16:25] <paultag> doctormo, <1
[16:25] <paultag> <3 *
[16:25] <nigelb> czajkowski: non newbies yes, and not necessarily devs either)
[16:25] <paultag> nigelb, brb :)
[16:25] <jcastro> the idea is "ooh I got a shiny new OS, what can I do with it? Oh, a week of sessions? Awesome!"
[16:25] <nigelb> exactly!
[16:26] <nigelb> akgraner: good one!
[16:26] <czajkowski> jcastro: I think in the first week a newbie isn't going to be going onto IRC is my issue
[16:26] <nigelb> paultag / duanedesign: somone should talk about bt
[16:26] <czajkowski> at least that's how I see it
[16:26] <Pendulum> akgraner: I like it
[16:26] <nigelb> but there are people who do
[16:26] <czajkowski> I don't think open week hapening when it currently is is benefitting to the community.
[16:26] <nigelb> I've seen lots of people from my loco coming into UOW
[16:27] <akgraner> Ok who wants to teach it?
[16:27]  * nigelb suggests akgraner or jcastro :p
[16:27]  * Pendulum suggests czajkowski 
[16:27] <akgraner> highvoltage, don't you all want to do an Edubuntu one?
[16:28] <jcastro> yeah but we're /always/ running sessions
[16:28] <jcastro> I was hoping for other people to pile in
[16:28] <jcastro> get new blood, etc.
[16:28] <akgraner> czajkowski, you're doing the LoCo one right?
[16:28] <Pendulum> I'd offer, but I'm not around most of the week :-/
[16:28] <czajkowski> akgraner: I am but can do 2 if you need
[16:28] <sense> good afternoon
[16:28] <nigelb> jcastro: ack, agreed
[16:29] <czajkowski> akgraner: am free all next week when not showing pleia2 around Dublin
[16:29]  * nigelb goes looking for new blood
[16:29] <akgraner> cool
[16:29] <czajkowski> akgraner: if you want slot me in for a thursday session
[16:29] <nigelb> jletbeter needs convincing, so anyone upto it, feel free to help her put something together :)
[16:29] <akgraner> czajkowski, ok - thanks :-)
[16:30] <jcastro> I have no doubt we could fill it up with people in this room in no time, but like, I want to give other people the chance to be awesome
[16:30] <akgraner> czajkowski, is today your birthday?
[16:30] <JFo> jcastro, am I wrong in my thinking that UOW is supposed to be geared toward a "What's cool in the release" sort of deal?
[16:30] <czajkowski> akgraner: yesterday
[16:30] <czajkowski> :)
[16:30] <akgraner> ahh - I wasn't online yesterday - so happy belated birthday!!
[16:30] <nigelb> czajkowski: HAPPY BIRTHDAY! (BELATED)
[16:30] <czajkowski> Thanks  :)
[16:31]  * nigelb demands photos of the party or the bottle :p
[16:31] <jcastro> JFo: it used to be more dev related, but I'm trying to make it more useful for end users
[16:31] <akgraner> JFo, that and now that you are a user here's how and where you can contribute
[16:31] <jcastro> so yeah, if you want to do "awesome new bling in your kernel" you can do that
[16:31] <JFo> cool
[16:31] <JFo> I was making sure
[16:31] <czajkowski> jcastro: how about your mini triage summit
[16:31] <czajkowski> like how to log a bug
[16:31] <JFo> me brain don't want to remember things like it used to
[16:31] <AlanBell> if anyone uses wiki.ubuntu.com you might want to go to your user preferences and change the theme to "light"
[16:31] <czajkowski> as week 1 of any release there are gonna be bugs or issues and folks may need to report them
[16:32] <nigelb> JFo: "What to do when that $foo doesn't work on Ubuntu"
[16:32] <AlanBell> then file bugs against it tagged with light-wiki https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu-website/+bugs?field.tag=light-wiki
[16:32] <AlanBell> because on October 13th that theme is going live
[16:32] <Pendulum> JFo: jcastro: I think there needs to be a session called "Awesome New Bling in your Kernel" ;-)
[16:32] <czajkowski> oh the loco council images are evil in light :(
[16:32] <JFo> Pendulum, :)
[16:32] <czajkowski> we need some sort of image...
[16:32] <jcastro> Pendulum: I know right!
[16:33] <jcastro> AlanBell: that looks great!
[16:33] <jcastro> I wish the wiki was faster. :(
[16:33] <akgraner> JFo, what day can I add you?
[16:33] <JFo> the team would want to call it, "Stuff we wish folks didn't know about yet" :-D
[16:33] <AlanBell> new kernel, now with added sysrq awesomeness \o/
[16:33] <JFo> AlanBell, heh
[16:33] <jcastro> "we now have a direct SMS link from your sysrq key to JFo"
[16:34] <JFo> gah!
[16:34] <nigelb> lol
[16:34]  * JFo bribes ogasawara to disable
[16:34] <AlanBell> jcastro: I am working on being allowed to help make the wiki faster
[16:34] <jcastro> dang, we'll have to redo our headers to match the new theme
[16:34] <AlanBell> fixed width wiki ftl in my opinion
[16:34] <jcastro> but it looks ssoooooooooo nice
[16:35] <jcastro> I agree
[16:35] <jcastro> but whatever
[16:35] <jcastro> anything is better than what we have now
[16:35] <AlanBell> and table borders are so last week it seems
[16:36] <Pendulum> AlanBell: I agree about fixed width :-/
[16:37] <AlanBell> https://lists.canonical.com/archives/ubuntu-website/2010-October/thread.html
[16:39] <nigelb> fixed widths are evil though pretty
[16:39] <sense> OMG! With that new theme we know have to redo all the table headers and backgrounds on the wiki! We should have had options to theme this using the wiki theme right from the start, this is going to be a lot of work!
[16:40] <AlanBell> sense: it has been there for quite some time
[16:40] <czajkowski> aye
[16:41] <AlanBell> but yes, there are issues with it, hence me asking for people to test it and file bugs, read the thread
[16:41]  * sense reads the thread
[16:43] <sense> Lets see what will happen after 13 October!
[16:44] <jcastro> man
[16:44] <jcastro> mpt made my Monday
[16:44] <jcastro> is 16518 words long.
[16:44] <jcastro> Even the "Basic Packaging" section alone is longer than the US
[16:44] <jcastro> Declaration of Independence, and the original US Constitution, combined
[16:44] <AlanBell> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuAppDeveloperWeek think that looks better without borders?
[16:46] <sense> AlanBell: Doesn't look too bad.
[16:47] <sense> It looks clean and is still understandable.
[16:51] <czajkowski> AlanBell: see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LoCoCouncil/ in light theme
[16:51] <akgraner> no borders looks weird to me
[16:51] <czajkowski> all or the borders are broken
[16:51] <czajkowski> looks awful
[16:53] <doctormo> akgraner: Did you want someone to do a "How to make posters in inkscape" for open week?
[16:53] <akgraner> I did
[16:53] <akgraner> are you up for it?
[16:53] <doctormo> akgraner: yes
[16:55] <akgraner> what is a good time and day? - https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuOpenWeek
[16:57] <doctormo> akgraner: I think Tues 16:00 UTC?
[16:58] <akgraner> ok thanks!
[17:01] <AlanBell> czajkowski: yeah, got it, broken images
[17:02] <AlanBell> pretty rubbish images in the standard theme tbh
[17:03] <czajkowski> true
[17:03] <czajkowski> we need an image
[17:03] <AlanBell> however that one is important as it gets used for  {*} https://wiki.ubuntu.com/htdocs/ubuntu/img/star_on.png
[17:03] <czajkowski> but I've no clue after that
[17:04] <AlanBell> don't quite get the point of those attachment icons
[17:05] <czajkowski> AlanBell: I think they were just copied in from elsewhere when it was created
[17:07] <AlanBell> aah, I see, they are missing attachments
[17:18] <AlanBell> fixed, kinda
[17:18] <AlanBell> and filed a bug for the circle of friends icon missin
[17:18] <akgraner> UGH - UWN doesn't look so good with the new theme
[17:19] <akgraner> is it just me or is it hard to read - https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuWeeklyNewsletter/Issue212
[17:23] <akgraner> when does this them go live - the 12th?
[17:23] <akgraner> theme even
[17:23] <AlanBell> 13th
[17:23] <AlanBell> unlucky for some
[17:23] <jussi> I get a nice kubuntu theme :D
[17:30] <AlanBell> the kubuntu theme is OK and is somewhat resizeable even though it has a fixed maximum width
[17:42] <dholbach> bye everyone - see you tomorrow
[17:42] <dholbach> have a great rest of your day
[17:46] <AlanBell> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu-website/+bugs?field.tag=light-wiki if anyone is in a bug confirming mood it would be nice if you could go through this lot
[18:14] <czajkowski> pleia2: you rock
[18:14] <czajkowski> oh no jono
[18:14] <czajkowski> hmm
[18:15] <jussi> popey: about?
[18:17] <czajkowski> he's travelling home
[18:18] <jussi> k
[18:18] <czajkowski> AlanBell: in the light theme, where is the preferences gone ?
[18:19] <highvoltage> akgraner: for when would that be? my schedule is really packed for the foreseeable future, but since it's just an hour I could probably do it if nothing else happens at the same time that can't be moved out
[18:20] <highvoltage> (I hope that makes sense I have to leave now for an exam)
[18:20] <dpm> czajkowski, it's at the top, next to the "Ubuntu Wiki" link, at the same level as the Search box
[18:21] <czajkowski> dpm: ahhhhh where my name is
[18:21] <czajkowski> dpm: thank you
[18:21] <popey> jussi: ya
[18:21] <dpm> yep (took me some time too :)
[18:22] <czajkowski> dpm: because under the default theme it says preferences...
[18:22] <czajkowski> so that's confusing and annoying
[18:22]  * czajkowski hugs dpm 
[18:22]  * dpm hugs czajkowski :) 
[18:23] <dpm> In general, I like the new theme, but I find a couple of things very difficult to get used to: bullet points + indents gone on lists, borders gone on tables, markup gone on {{{ }}} enclosed text
[18:24] <czajkowski> boarders on tables is a big issue I find
[18:24] <czajkowski> making it really hard to read the pages.
[18:24]  * popey hugs jussi 
[18:24] <dpm> *nod*
[18:24]  * jussi hugs popey back and reminds him to thank ljl for his hard work actually implementing it
[18:24] <AlanBell> all the wiki issues are fixable, just a bit concerned about whether they will all end up as wontfix
[18:55]  * dpm hugs akgraner :)
[18:56] <akgraner> dpm, thanks - I can't believe I forgot to post that...  DOH!
[18:57] <dpm> no worries, thanks for the great work on the interviews!
[19:55] <jcastro> hey dpm
[19:55] <jcastro> are we supposed to be making blueprints?
[19:55] <jcastro> I am confused on our track
[19:56] <dpm> jcastro, yes, I have an action from jono on our last call to start on the bp, but I haven't done it yet. I'll start tomorrow before our next call
[19:56] <jcastro> I am confused on what the bp's are supposed to be about
[19:56] <jcastro> is it situation normal and they just go in the project track?
[19:57] <jcastro> or are we supposed to participate in other tracks?
[19:57] <dpm> jcastro, oh, I see, we no longer have tracks but projects (or was it themes?) now, do we?
[19:57] <dpm> my action was:
[19:57] <czajkowski> jcastro: dpm is jono about ?
[19:58] <jcastro> no he's on london time now
[19:58] <dpm> * Create blueprints for all the objectives and target them at uds-n.
[19:58] <czajkowski> jcastro: ahh ok thanks
[19:59] <dpm> jcastro, but I don't know anything about where to schedule the sessions for them
[19:59] <jcastro> yeah
[19:59] <jcastro> no worries
[19:59] <jcastro> ok
[19:59] <dpm> k
[19:59] <jcastro> we're certainly not naming the bp's "ubuntutheproject-n-blah"
[19:59] <jcastro> so I was thinking
[19:59] <jcastro> project-n-foo
[20:02] <dpm> yeah, so the question is what $trackname in our old $trackname-n-$title naming scheme is now. I can ask jono in our call tomorrow, or I can ping him in the morning if he's about
[20:02] <jcastro> it will be a theme
[20:02] <jcastro> I sent a mail to -devel about it
[20:04] <jcastro> and yet
[20:04] <jcastro> foundations is going
[20:04] <jcastro> foundations-n-
[20:04] <jcastro> ok whatever, let's do community-n
[20:05] <sense> By the way, what happened to the Sound Theme contest? I thought there was supposed to be one for Maverick, I've even seen some entries!
[20:06] <jcastro> dunno
[20:06] <sense> Would be a bit painful if it was forgotten twice.
[20:16] <czajkowski> dpm: you're online late
[20:16] <akgraner> cool I can put lines back under my sections in UWN :-)  whew
[20:17] <dpm> czajkowski, yeah, dealing with some "I-really-really-had-to-answer-this-e-mail-long-ago" mail :)
[20:17] <jcastro> dpm: we need some translation love for openweek
[20:18] <sense> Teach people about the native-English-speaker-privilege!
[20:19] <dpm> jcastro, in terms of more sessions, or translated sessions? I've added one, I can ask translators if they'd like to schedule some. If not, I'll add another one myself
[20:21] <jcastro> dpm: sure, whatever you think is best
[20:22] <jcastro> I wouldn't worry about the translated sessions, those seem to happen on their own
[20:22] <jcastro> dpm: are we still doomed wrt. chromium translations?
[20:25] <dpm> jcastro, ok, added another translations session: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuOpenWeek/Timetable
[20:25] <dpm> jcastro: wrt chromium translations we are a little less doomed, but it still does not change the fact that translations cannot be included in language packs. fta has been doing some rocking work in making chromium translatable in LP, and upstream might even consider using that (for chromium, not for chrome).
[20:25] <dpm>    https://translations.edge.launchpad.net/chromium-browser/translations
[20:26] <dpm> The problem is that chromium use their own format for translations, and LP supports only gettext
[20:26] <jcastro> why would someone invent their own?
[20:26] <jcastro> you know what, don't answer that
[20:26] <jcastro> I know better
[20:26] <jcastro> heh
[20:26] <paultag> platform independent...
[20:26] <paultag> oh wait
[20:26] <paultag> :P
[20:27] <dpm> I know, I know...
[20:27] <jcastro> what we need is to rewrite init
[20:27] <paultag> jcastro, don't say that too loud
[20:34] <doctormo> I've never seen such depth of discussion in the mailing lists about the UDS tracks before.
[20:36]  * vish pokes doctormo , one last attempt.. ;p
[20:36] <vish> doctormo: let me view your site..! :-D
[20:37] <vish> gah.. they should have the discussion on -devel instead of all the moderation lags o.0
[20:38] <vish> i mean, devel-discuss!
[20:40] <jcastro> vish: we'd likely get demolished with noise
[20:40] <vish> heh.. ;)
[20:41] <vish> jcastro: i think you are happy since you are whitelisted now! ;p
[20:41] <jcastro> I only post on that list when I have to
[20:41] <jcastro> I'm basically finished now
[20:42] <jcastro> except for my announcement on plenaries coming up
[20:43] <vish> seems the weekend lags might be the major ones, mods seem quite fast at it during workdays..
[20:59] <doctormo> vish: which site?
[20:59] <vish> doctormo: doctormo.org .. i dont know what else you have stashed .. ;)
[21:02] <doctormo> jcastro: Were you in charge of the free culture showcase prior to the design team?
[21:05] <jcastro> yes
[21:06] <vish> \o/
[21:06]  * vish was right!
[21:07] <doctormo> jcastro: Do you have a list of people who helped you and were contacts for various parts or was it all hands on?
[21:08] <jcastro> there was a wiki page
[21:08] <jcastro> and people added what they wanted
[21:08] <jcastro> then the judges decided and made a short list for the CC to decide upon
[21:10] <doctormo> jcastro: OK so it never included flickr before?
[21:10] <sense> I'm off, sleep well everyone! :)
[21:13] <jcastro> doctormo: no that was the wallpaper contest
[21:13] <doctormo> jcastro: Was that the wallpaper contest this time too?
[21:13] <jcastro> yes
[21:15] <doctormo> jcastro: from this cycle it looks like http://www.flickr.com/groups/ubuntu-artwork/ was used for photographic entries to the showcase.
[21:15] <jcastro> they've always done that
[21:15] <doctormo> Was there some cross between the free culture showcase and the wallpaper context?
[21:16] <jcastro> the FCS was an audio and video version of the wallpaper thing basically
[21:16] <jcastro> they used other sites though
[21:16] <jcastro> it's in the bp
[21:16] <vish> http://design.canonical.com/2010/06/art-in-the-open/
[21:17] <vish> http://design.canonical.com/2010/08/ubuntu-needs-a-new-sound-theme/
[21:17] <jcastro> https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/design-m-wallpaper-competition
[21:18] <vish> there are a few issues here, mainly is the lack of communication.. again ;)
[21:19] <jcastro> what's the issue?
[21:20] <vish> seems doctormo is trying to make the FCS and related more streamlined..
[21:21] <doctormo> jcastro: The wiki page for the free culture showcase made it seem like the wallpapers, video and audio were all in the same boat. Same competition etc.
[21:21] <vish>  Bug #643250
[21:21] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 643250 in ubuntu-community "Ubuntu Free Culture Showcase Coimmunication problem (affects: 1) (heat: 9)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/643250
[21:21] <jcastro> I thought they were, audio on soundcloud, video on vimeo, and the usual flickr one right?
[21:21] <doctormo> This perhaps explains why the flickr results went off to the wallpaper package, the video and audio went off to the fcs and the deviantArt results got left in the lurch.
[21:22] <jcastro> I didn't know there was a deviant art thing
[21:22] <vish> jcastro: the deviant-art was for FCS
[21:23] <vish> flickr for wallpaper
[21:23] <jcastro> I don't recall that from the session?
[21:23] <doctormo> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuFreeCultureShowcase <- see illustrative wallpaper.
[21:23] <jcastro> I see that now
[21:24] <jcastro> how did that get missed until now? they put the winners in like weeks ago didn't they?
[21:24] <vish>  yeah, two FCS items were updated but nothing seems to have been officially announced..
[21:25] <vish> doctormo: Michael worked on the sound one.. , the video ,i guess, had no other choices ;p
[21:25] <jcastro> likely it was on ken's plate but he left the company
[21:26] <doctormo> jcastro: I never knew it was separated out or that this new organisation wasn't more well known. :-/
[21:26] <jcastro> ? It was in the session?
[21:27] <vish> yup..
[21:27] <vish> it was mostly ken's absence which hurt FCS this time..
[21:27] <jcastro> yeah
[21:27] <doctormo> The deviantArt -> ubuntu-artists group was ad-hoc, I can't say if the original plan included deviantArt, Ian made a new group and I moved in to suggest reducing duplication and took over that part of things from there.
[21:27] <jcastro> we were behind on the wallpaper rotation thing too from the session, but other-ken bailed  us out on that one
[21:28] <jcastro> https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/design-m-wallpaper-competition
[21:28] <jcastro> there's a deviant art link in the spec
[21:28] <jcastro> but it appears to be different
[21:29] <jcastro>  - sound theme will run a separate timeline
[21:29] <doctormo> Yes, that's the duplicate group.
[21:29] <jcastro> ^^^ that seems to be the biggest problem
[21:29] <vish> jcastro: yea, doctormo merged it into his group
[21:29] <vish> the deviant art grp
[21:29] <doctormo> 500 members almost ^-^
[21:32] <doctormo> http://ubuntu-artists.deviantart.com/gallery/25667683
[21:34] <doctormo> jcastro and vish: thanks for your info, I have a much clearer idea of what happened and why it failed to go right.
[21:34] <jcastro> it failed because the person responsible went away
[21:34] <vish> hehe!
[21:34] <jcastro> is my conclusion
[21:34] <jcastro> because we talked about all this at the session
[21:34] <jcastro> and it was "going to be awesome"
[21:40] <jcastro> vish: did we talk about an illustrative wallpaper?
[21:40] <jcastro> I don't remember that at all
[21:41] <vish> well very briefly, it was mostly to be based on those themes..
[21:41] <vish> but the idea kept dripting away since we were having too much fun in the session ;p
[21:43] <jcastro> I admit, I had one goal, get the FCS off our plate.
[21:43] <jcastro> though I wasn't expecting the plate to get dropped at the end
[21:44] <vish>  we were playing pass the ball, but the person having the ball dropped it and left ;p
[21:45] <jcastro> yes
[21:45] <jcastro> being clear that we passed the ball and he was in possession for quite some time
[21:45] <jcastro> so like, it was a totally great pass and reception
[21:51] <akgraner> dpm, Ubuntu Brazilian Portuguese Translation Team Interview sent..
[21:51] <dpm> akgraner, awesome, thanks!
[21:55] <jcastro> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuOpenWeek_ES/
[21:55] <jcastro> YEAH!
[21:57] <akgraner> sweet!
[22:34] <AlanBell> popey: do you have a key with pause and break on it?
[22:37] <popey> not on this particular machine
[22:37] <popey> pause is on F12
[22:38] <czajkowski> AlanBell: I do
[22:38] <AlanBell> I do
[22:38] <czajkowski> is right beside my PRTSC SYSRQ
[22:38] <AlanBell> if I want to press pause I just press the button
[22:38] <AlanBell> if I want to press break I do ctrl+break
[22:38] <AlanBell> not alt+break
[22:39] <AlanBell> thus to press alt+sysrq I would do ctrl+(prtscr/sysrq key)+alt
[22:41] <AlanBell> I am a bit puzzled by reports from kernel people that they have been pressing alt+that key to get sysrq for the last 15 years
[22:42] <czajkowski> nn folks
[22:42] <AlanBell> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magic_SysRq_key#Magic_commands
[22:43] <AlanBell> nn czajkowski
[22:44] <popey> i have pasted that url and indeed the bit about gnome in the bug report
[22:45] <AlanBell> so you have