[00:05] <ScottL> frewsxcv, well, it really wasn't a joke
[00:06] <ScottL> frewsxcv, but we would really appreciate any suggestions or examples you can provide
[00:06] <ScottL> paultag, that's cool, hopefully you can smooth some things over
[00:06] <paultag> ScottL, is it being considered for submission to Debian?
[00:07] <ScottL> paultag, as far as i know, no one is working on it for debian, but i don't keep up that much with debian to be honest
[00:07] <paultag> ScottL, it looks to be stupid stuff like sanity checking 
[00:07] <paultag> ScottL, I've not seen an RFS for it, and I keep an eye out for cool stuff like this
[00:08] <paultag> ScottL, I might try and fork it and send the git repo to the author and see if he might consider sending to Debian
[00:08] <paultag> ScottL, it's pretty cool ( but he has some basic errors with his packaging, I might try and fix that up while I'm at it )
[00:08] <ScottL> frewsxcv, and please feel free to point out any wrong with the mock-up, i don't claim to be a website designer but i would enjoy learning more
[00:08] <ScottL> paultag, sweet :)
[00:09] <paultag> ScottL, have you tried it out?
[00:09] <ScottL> i just ran across this while reading Linux Format magazine, not sure how many people actually know about it
[00:09] <paultag> ScottL, it's actually really really cool, I love it. It helped hugely this afternoon
[00:09] <ScottL> paultag, negative, been working on too many other things, even to the exclusion of my own music that i should have finished a month ago ;)
[00:09] <paultag> ScottL, I nailed a good bit of a song I was struggling with
[00:09] <paultag> ScottL, I know that feeling :)
[00:13] <frewsxcv> ScottL, firs thing i notice in the site. it's a bunch of text. not organizational flow whatsoever
[00:13] <frewsxcv> it's like someone went in the gimp and just placed textboxes everywhere
[00:18] <paultag> ScottL, Oh man, I just read the readme. Apparently  stretchplayer is GPL-Jesus-Christ-v3
[00:18] <paultag> ScottL, http://github.com/paultag/stretchplayer/raw/master//README.txt <-- Check this out
[00:18] <ScottL> frewsxcv, well, it was inkscape, but fair enough :)   go on, please
[00:19] <paultag> Right under "ABOUT STRETCHPLAYER"
[00:19] <ScottL> paultag, written to glorify god....hmmm, interesting
[00:19] <frewsxcv> ScottL, coutn how many different fonts are apparent on the website. a site should never have more than 2
[00:21] <ScottL> paultag, lol @ "gpl-jesus-christ-v3"
[00:21] <paultag> ScottL, not often you see that in a README
[00:22] <paultag> :P
[00:22] <frewsxcv> ScottL, what is the player in the top left?
[00:22] <frewsxcv> ScottL, also embedding flash on the front page?
[00:23] <frewsxcv> ScottL, and the colors on the top right, of the social network icons, do not fit in the page
[00:28] <ScottL> frewsxcv, the player in the top left was to play user submitted music, to showcase ubuntu studio user work
[00:29] <ScottL> frewsxcv, "flash on front page", i thought that having some media very accessible (espeically the youtube videos that everyone likes to watch) would help new people see what it is about and how good it can be
[00:29] <frewsxcv> ScottL, that can be a good idea, though 1) make sure it doesn't play by default 2) make sure it doesn't use flash 3) don't position it on the top left of the page
[00:29] <ScottL> frewsxcv, i agree with the colors, i had considered making them grayscale
[00:30] <frewsxcv> ScottL, having media on the front page can be fine. just flash is looked down upon, especially in the FOSS community. theora/webm would be a nice choice. though 2 videos on the front page can be a bit overwhelming
[00:30] <frewsxcv> ScottL, i'm not sure how it'd look but, maybe on hover over, the icons can turn their respective color
[00:31] <ScottL> frewsxcv, keep in mind, that really isn't a flash player there, it's just a screen shot that i stole to use as a prop, it could be any type of video
[00:32] <ScottL> frewsxcv, do you have interests in actively helping redo the ubuntustudio.org website?
[00:32] <ScottL> people keep saying they want to and then doing nothing or proposing questionable ideas/work
[00:33] <frewsxcv> ScottL, i can help out a bit here and there, though being a full time student and work i don't really have enough time to commit to anything
[00:33] <paultag> ScottL, I can help. I used to be employed as a web designer and I just offloaded helping with the loco-directory project
[00:33] <frewsxcv> ScottL, i did a lot of the coding on the current site
[00:33] <ScottL> paultag, that would be sweet :)
[00:34] <paultag> ScottL, roger doger. I'll see if I can't mock something up when I have a few hours 
[00:34] <ScottL> frewsxcv, oh really?  i believe cory mentions you often when we talk about the website
[00:34] <ScottL> paultag, awesome!
[00:34] <frewsxcv> ScottL, is he still _MMA_?
[00:34] <ScottL> frewsxcv, no, he goes by ckontros now
[00:35] <ScottL> he doesn't get in this channel too often, but you can pm him quite often
[00:35] <ScottL> frewsxcv, the current website has some things fallen into disrepair and we thought it would be nice to update the whole site since it hasn't been touched in a while
[00:36] <ScottL> paultag, ^^^ i goes you should know that too
[00:36] <frewsxcv> ScottL, i completely agree. and if it were me, i would move away from drupal
[00:36] <paultag> yeah for sure
[00:36] <ScottL> the trouble has been finding someone with drupal experience to fix or replace it
[00:36] <frewsxcv> but that really depends on your coding ability
[00:36] <paultag> ScottL, I'll see if I can mock something up. It won't be hard to replace it with a from scratch site.
[00:36] <ScottL> frewsxcv, well, detrate` offered to do it in wordpress but there's a story about that
[00:36] <frewsxcv> meh it's mostly css work. i'm pretty sure i sent cory a patch a year ago
[00:37] <frewsxcv> it really depends on how complex the site is if you need a whole framework
[00:37] <ScottL> detrate`, had started working something up and stochastic (who doesn't hang around often anymore) popped in and told me and tyler that wordpress is verboten to canonical due to security
[00:38] <ScottL> so, all of detrate`s work got stalled, so we pushed on trying to get drupal help
[00:38] <frewsxcv> i mean, if it's just a few pages, just a small python script would be fine to generate the rss and news page
[00:39] <ScottL> but now i hear that wordpress is allowed (or actually see it, www.uds.ubuntu.com) so i'm going to file an RT to make sure
[00:39] <ScottL> frewsxcv, well, i would like to make the website a little more functional than what it currently is, hopefully make it a portal for new users and a nexus for user activity (hopefully)
[00:39] <frewsxcv> ScottL, like...
[00:39] <ScottL> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuStudio/TaskWebRevamp
[00:40] <ScottL> some of the main things mentioned are the feature walkthrough (not walkway, language from work creeping in) to explain to people unfamiliar with ubuntu studio
[00:40] <ScottL> also go over some of the intricacies, like kernels, to further explain to people who are somewhat familiar
[00:41] <ScottL> places to host user created content
[00:41] <ScottL> how cool would it be for a user to have their stuff playing or showing on the front page? (just an idea)
[00:41] <ScottL> links to tutorials
[00:41] <frewsxcv> ScottL, you don't need a web framework to put an audio player on the front page
[00:41] <frewsxcv> and make sure the audio player is not flash
[00:42] <frewsxcv> libre.fm player is a good example
[00:42] <ScottL> a really good video showcasing ubuntu studio's features would be effective
[00:42] <ScottL> frewsxcv, lol, i was just reading about libre.fm (and jokosher) in Linux Format magazine
[00:42] <frewsxcv> ScottL, again, videos don't require wordpress
[00:44] <ScottL> frewsxcv, my understanding is that canonical requires the framework, but i could be really, really wrong
[00:49] <ScottL> frewsxcv, paultag: to be honest, i care less for "no framework, which framework", whichever methodology works doesn't matter to me, just providing the functionality is what i am concerned with
[00:50] <frewsxcv> ScottL, i agree. for now, focus on functionality/design to the site. then worry about how it works
[00:50] <paultag> ScottL, I'm with you man.
[00:50] <paultag> Well, I'll be off fixing stretchplayer in another workspace. Let me know if this goes anywhere interesting
[00:51] <ScottL> paultag, i don't know if you saw this before - https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuStudio/TaskWebRevamp
[00:51] <paultag> ScottL, aye, I poped that up when you pasted it above :)
[01:07] <paultag> Woo. Got the DSC lintain clean. Huzzah.
[01:37] <ScottL> paultag, :)
[02:55] <ScottL> paultag, i have an idea for the website i'd like to bounce off of you
[02:57] <ScottL> i tend to think about things, perhaps overthink them, but i try to think about it from lots of perspectives
[02:58] <ScottL> their not always good ideas, mind you, but i try to get "outside" box sometimes
[02:58] <ScottL> hi troy_s 
[02:58] <ScottL> paultag, what if the first page was like http://www.kubuntu.org/ 
[02:58] <troy_s> ScottL: How goes the fight?
[02:58] <troy_s> ScottL: That site is for whom?
[02:58] <troy_s> ScottL: More of the same wank.
[02:59] <ScottL> paultag, but very, very clean, just focusing on the features of ubuntu studio, with a link to a more explanatory video or to go on to the main site
[02:59] <ScottL> troy_s,  1) still developing, exploring, looking at it
[02:59] <ScottL> troy_s,  2) ubuntu studio
[02:59] <ScottL> troy_s,  3) yes :P
[03:01] <troy_s> ScottL: (I was referring to that Kubuntu site)
[03:02] <ScottL> troy_s, oh, sorry about that then :)
[03:02] <troy_s> ScottL: Looking for a link.
[03:02] <ScottL> troy_s, http://www.kubuntu.org/
[03:03] <troy_s> ScottL: Yes. Weak. Big bunch of data.
[03:03] <troy_s> ScottL: No spirit. No voice. 
[03:03] <ScottL> troy_s, yes, but this was mine http://www.fossmusicproject.org/public/images/website-mockup-3.png
[03:03] <troy_s> http://www.uie.com/brainsparks/2010/08/16/are-we-measuring-the-wrong-assumptions/
[03:03] <ScottL> some liked it, others did not
[03:04] <troy_s> ScottL: Yikes @ me on there.
[03:04] <troy_s> anyways
[03:04] <ScottL> i realize that my mockup is trying to do WAY to much, and therefore not effectively doing anything
[03:04] <troy_s> ScottL: Still no voice. All of the aesthetic cues are really a moot point. In fact, dare I say that you maybe should simply start black and white with a generic typeface etc. A 'pencil outline' if you will.
[03:04] <troy_s> ScottL: Start with a voice. Then let the voice (and the who) drive the aesthetic.
[03:05] <troy_s> ScottL: And yes, an astute observation really.
[03:06] <ScottL> troy_s,  this is what inspired my mockup  http://cms.template-help.com/wordpress_30641/
[03:07] <ScottL> troy_s, and you can see that i completely lost the simplicity it had
[03:08] <ScottL> troy_s, my first one was much simpler, but certainly not as elegant as the example
[03:08] <ScottL> troy_s, the second lost its focus, and the third took it to the extreme
[03:08] <paultag> ScottL, sure
[03:08] <ScottL> paultag, keep in mind, i'm not dictating anything, just bouncing ideas
[03:08] <troy_s> ScottL: Yep. Sure did.
[03:09] <paultag> ScottL, yessir
[03:09] <ScottL> paultag, feel free to tell me i'm full of feces ;)
[03:09] <paultag> ScottL, naw, I'm with you. I love the Kubuntu site
[03:09] <paultag> ScottL, I'll tell you if I disagree ;)
[03:09] <ScottL> as i said, i tend to work my way around something, and i don't always walk in the right direction
[03:10] <troy_s> ScottL: Two big things to do perhaps. Or at least try. 1) Ask a question. Don't blow your wad. Let curiosity in. 2) Get that damn voice. Who? Goal? Download the ISO isn't enough. That's certainly a potential goal for certain audiences, but not an end unto itself. What is the end?
[03:10] <troy_s> ScottL: For an extremely good example of 'ask a question', the iPod packaging featuring the black and white musical artists and nothing more did a terrific job at that. Enough visual cues to lead the audience in the right direction, but not enough to give them the answer as it were.
[03:11] <troy_s> ScottL: Again, read http://www.uie.com/brainsparks/2010/08/16/are-we-measuring-the-wrong-assumptions/ for a perfectly good example of what we are discussing really. Figure out the who and speak to them. Ignore everyone else.
[03:12] <ScottL> troy_s, i'm not terribly intuitive on such things, i will need to read it several times and reflect on it and how it applies
[03:12] <ScottL> troy_s, but read it i will (sorry for yoda voice)
[03:13] <ScottL> troy_s, but this aligns with what i was suggesting to paultag and the example link (the inspirational one), keeping it simple and direct
[03:14] <ScottL> troy_s, i think the audience should be people not familiar with ubuntu studio, the goal to give them some ideas about it without going to technical
[03:28] <ScottL> troy_s, i wasn't trying to sound flippant about the "wrong assumptions" link you gave, i realized it sounded that way when i reread what i typed
[03:30] <ScottL> part of my problem is that i like to explain everything to make sure everyone understand everything :P
[04:02] <troy_s> ScottL: Let's hope you make progress.
[04:03] <troy_s> ScottL: It might be difficult with a lack of unionized core. Getting the core force on the same page is not going to be simple I believe.
[07:30] <abogani> ScottL: About http://www.fossmusicproject.org/public/images/website-mockup-3.png It is really really cool!
[12:20] <ScottL> abogani, thank you :)
[12:20] <ScottL> although two others crucified me about it LOL
[12:20] <ScottL> they didn't like it so much ;)
[13:20] <astraljava> Wow. I am fond of that style very much, so no idea what's going on there. :)
[13:27] <scott-work> i was hoping that providing a mockup to the mailing list it might inspire someone else to prepare a mockup as well
[13:28] <scott-work> maybe go in a different direction, something different
[13:28] <scott-work> paultag said he would work something up as well though :)
[13:28] <scott-work> i look forward to seeing what he has
[14:08] <paultag> :)
[14:08] <paultag> I was dealing with #ubuntu-california last night ( what  a headache ). hopefully I'll have time tonight :)
[15:19] <jussi> scott-work: nice mock up, but IM not a bg fan of the "set your creativity free" font
[15:19] <scott-work> jussi: LOL, many feel that way :)
[15:30] <scott-work> jussi: but also, in some cases, people have greatly disliked the overall design
[15:30] <jussi> scott-work: theres always people who just dont like it
[15:33] <abogani> scott-work: You should reply: "I'm sure that we can do better. Could you provide a draft of your idea?". If they don't reply please ignore them.
[15:44] <scott-work> abogani: funny you should say that because i did ;)
[15:45] <scott-work> one of the persons who did not like my mockup was the person who made the current website
[15:45] <abogani> :)
[15:45] <scott-work> when i queried him about problems and change he did point of some very constructive points :)
[15:46] <scott-work> s/change/changes he would make
[15:47] <scott-work> i wonder if we might also use a "landing page", a page the people googling (therefore newbies) would see
[15:47] <scott-work> perhaps something like these:  http://aerfoto.net/
[15:47] <scott-work> just very basic, but highlighting some features
[15:48] <scott-work> with a link at the bottom to take them to the main website, which could be more like the mockup
[15:48] <scott-work> .
[15:48] <scott-work> these are just thoughts, just exploring the possibilities
[16:05] <jussi> scott-work: landing pages work :D
[16:05] <paultag> +
[16:05] <paultag> +1 *
[16:05] <paultag> jussi, thanks for helping this morning again, btw :)
[16:06] <paultag> My website is just a big landing page :)
[16:06] <jussi> no no no...
[16:06] <jussi> I meant to write they dont work ... I hate them. but still..
[16:06] <jussi> :(
[16:07] <paultag> jussi, >:(
[16:07] <paultag> jussi, http://pault.ag/ <-- this is a landing page, really
[16:07] <scott-work> LOL
[16:07] <jussi> more clicks = bad. 
[16:07] <paultag> jussi, you don't click on mine, so neener neener
[16:07] <scott-work> I was LOL at jussi's comments, not you paultag 
[16:07] <paultag> scott-work, I figured ;)
[16:16] <scott-work> jussi, paultag:  after talking to troy_s and some people at work, i'm really less worried about how the website "looks" than how "functional" it is
[16:16] <scott-work> i think the current website doesn't look bad, but really isn't that functional
[16:16] <scott-work> s/look bad/look that bad
[16:17] <scott-work> i would rather have a website that is basic (like google, youtube, et al) but really, really functional and direct
[16:17] <paultag> scott-work, if we could find a django whiz, this could be in top-notch shape in no time. Just fork the loco-directory, it has a ton of code that could help
[16:17] <paultag> scott-work, yeah, I don't disagree at all
[16:17] <scott-work> i think doctormo knows django
[16:19] <paultag> scott-work, I think he does, he gave code to the LD at one point and time :)
[17:16] <scott-work> paultag: i guess doctormo either hasn't had his morning coffee or isn't interested :P
[17:56] <scott-work> abogani: in reference to your email about kernels and help, i would be happy to help wherever you need it, including packaging and relations
[17:56] <scott-work> i'll respond to the email later today though
[17:59] <holstein> abogani: AH, i didnt realize you were in the channel :)
[17:59] <holstein> yeah, i think we can get a little RT team together to help maintain those kernels
[18:00] <jussi> holstein: scott-work, excellent to see people able to help with RT!
[18:00] <holstein> jussi: :)
[18:05] <scott-work> jussi: the -rt kernel is terribly important for several reasons and deserves this support
[18:05] <jussi> scott-work: Im well aware ;)
[18:05] <scott-work> 1) latptop users with firewire audio interfaces need to set the irq priorities which requires the -rt kernel (as is my understanding)
[18:05] <scott-work> 2) some people require the performance that the -rt kernel provides
[18:06] <scott-work> jussi: i'm sure you do, but i just really wanted to post that in the irc channel for recrod really
[18:06] <scott-work> record even ;)
[18:06] <jussi> :D
[18:17] <paultag> scott-work, haha aye
[18:18]  * paultag hugs jussi 
[18:18] <jussi> paultag: !
[18:19] <paultag> jussi, thanks for your work with california, everyone's real stressed over it lately ( it's been going on for a while now ) :)
[18:41] <scott-work> i think some of the education and information sharing in the mailing list regarding the kernels is awesome!
[18:41] <scott-work> it's great to see the community coming together like that :)