[00:14] <armenb> hello...I just installed 10.04.1 LTS Desktop.  How do I get access to libglib2.0-dev through the package system?  I seem to have access to it on my Ubuntu 10.04 server box...
[00:19] <RAOF> That's probably a better question for #ubuntu, but the libglib2.0-dev package should be available.
[07:47] <pitti> Good morning
[07:51] <cdbs> Good morning pitti !
[07:51] <pitti> hey cdbs
[08:17] <mvo> hey glatzor!
[08:19] <didrocks> good morning
[08:28] <duanedesign> morning didrocks
[08:33] <didrocks> hey duanedesign, how are you?
[08:36] <glatzor> hey mvo!
[08:37] <cdbs> hey didrocks ! Howz quickly?
[08:38] <didrocks> hey cdbs ;) quite busy with other things like CD testing, just released Quickly 0.6.1 yesterday :)
[08:59] <didrocks> RAOF: thanks for confirming bug #656037 is also on desktop iso too :)
[08:59] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 656037 in ubiquity (Ubuntu Maverick) (and 1 other project) "Software sources not selected (affects: 2) (heat: 14)" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/656037
[09:00] <didrocks> mvo: hey, I think it's for you ^^
[09:00] <RAOF> didrocks: Hey, if it's not broken, that means you haven't hit it hard enough yet :)
[09:01] <didrocks> RAOF: heh :-)
[09:02] <RAOF> Oooh, 7pm.  That probably makes it Civ V time!
[09:05] <mvo> didrocks: thanks, I check it out
[09:05] <didrocks> RAOF: enjoy :)
[09:09] <mvo> hm, launchpad down,  I should do the same
[09:09] <mvo> (not that I have civ V, but … )
[09:10] <pitti> argh, that explains a lot
[09:10] <pitti> mvo: Dr. House episodes? :-)
[09:10] <pitti> hey, it's 10:10
[09:11] <mvo> haha
[09:12] <mvo> release!
[09:12] <mvo> oh, wait …
[09:12] <didrocks> hey pitti
[09:12] <didrocks> mvo: well, I don't know… get some tea :-)
[09:12]  * didrocks knew he should have checkout his branch before
[09:22] <seb128> hey
[09:27] <didrocks> salut seb128
[09:28] <seb128> lut didrocks
[09:28] <seb128> ca va ?
[09:28] <didrocks> ça va bien, du mal à m'endormir hier soir (3h du mat), je sais pas pourquoi… mais la forme tout de même !
[09:28] <didrocks> et toi ?
[09:28] <seb128> lol
[09:28] <seb128> ca va bien, j'ai trainé un peu hier résultat je me suis rendormis ce matin ... ;-)
[09:29] <seb128> mvo, hey
[09:30] <seb128> mvo, did you send your gconf fix to debian? if not do you want me to do it?
[09:30] <didrocks> seb128: ah ben bravo! :-)
[09:37] <pitti> bonjour seb128
[09:37] <seb128> hey pitti
[09:37] <seb128> how are you?
[09:38] <pitti> I'm great, thanks!
[09:38] <pitti> just crossed the 600 mark :)
[09:38] <seb128> you will be done before UDS if you keep it this way ;-)
[09:38] <pitti> that's my plan
[09:41] <mvo> seb128: not yet, I can do it now
[09:43] <seb128> mvo, thanks
[09:43] <seb128> do we have isos to test today?
[09:43] <seb128> let's rsync
[09:45] <seb128> rickspencer3, hey
[09:45] <rickspencer3> hi seb128
[09:46] <seb128> rickspencer3, while you are around, what is the word for blueprints?
[09:46] <seb128> should we register some?
[09:46] <rickspencer3> seb128, yes please
[09:46] <mvo> seb128: send
[09:46] <didrocks> hey rickspencer3
[09:48] <rickspencer3> hi didrocks
[09:48] <chrisccoulson> hi rickspencer3
[09:48] <chrisccoulson> i see you registered appselection-n-thunderbird-on-ubuntu
[09:48] <chrisccoulson> what is the scope of this blueprint?
[09:49] <chrisccoulson> i was wondering if there is any point in me having a separate one for the messaging indicator?
[09:49] <chrisccoulson> (currently other-desktop-n-thunderbird-messaging-indicator)
[09:53] <rickspencer3> chrisccoulson, a separate blueprint would be fine
[09:54] <rickspencer3> the t-bird blueprint is basically, the t-bird team wants to be default mail client
[09:54] <rickspencer3> so they're coming to discuss that
[09:55] <chrisccoulson> rickspencer3, oh, i didn't know that people working on thunderbird were coming along
[09:56] <rickspencer3> chrisccoulson, yeah, I logged the blueprint for them
[09:58] <chrisccoulson> ah, ok
[09:58] <chrisccoulson> thanks!
[09:58] <chrisccoulson> i see from the list of people subscribed now ;)
[10:09] <TheMuso> Right away that raises a11y concerns. I'll dig up the blueprint tomorrow, and subscribe.
[11:19] <pitti> bilalakhtar: oh, that was _you_; I didn't recognize you as "cdbs" :)
[11:19] <bilalakhtar> pitti: :)
[11:19] <bilalakhtar> pitti: some find this nick of mine to be too long
[11:20] <pitti> *shrug* tab completion
[11:20] <pitti> it's shorter than chrisccoulson
[11:20] <pitti> (who currently determines the width of the nick column here)
[11:20] <bilalakhtar> yes
[11:20] <bilalakhtar> in the other channels its cody-somerville who does that
[11:21] <pitti> but I actually prefer real names over unintelligible acronyms/pseudonyms
[11:21] <pitti> much easier to keep track of whom you are talking to
[11:21] <bilalakhtar> And its a plus point if your nick and LP ids match :)
[11:23] <didrocks> pitti: heh, same here, all the interface is reshaped at first chrisccoulson's sentence :)
[11:48] <seb128> hum, the software center selected lines without focus are not really readable with the default theme
[11:48] <seb128> white text on light grey background...
[11:49] <seb128> the totem bbc option seems broken, it's not listed
[11:57] <seb128> hum
[11:58] <seb128> seems the default webbrowser in GNOME is set to custom with an empty value there
[11:58] <seb128> chrisccoulson, ^ did you notice that before?
[11:58] <seb128> in fact
[11:58] <seb128> 10_libgnomevfs2-common:/desktop/gnome/url-handlers/http/command	"sensible-browser %s"
[11:59] <seb128> has that always been the case? or did we set firefox as default in the past?
[11:59] <seb128> let's start a lucid iso
[11:59] <Laney> sensible-browser is right, surely — it should launch firefox
[11:59] <Laney> and does here
[11:59] <seb128> I doubt it's right
[12:00] <seb128> it makes the GNOME capplet shows "custom" with a weird icon
[12:00] <seb128> users will probably be confused to not have firefox set
[12:01] <seb128> rodrigo_, hey
[12:01] <rodrigo_> hi seb128
[12:01] <seb128> 10_rhythmbox-ubuntuone-music-store is buggy
[12:01] <rodrigo_> hmm
[12:01]  * rodrigo_ looks
[12:01] <seb128> /desktop/gnome/url_handlers/xu1ms/command	rhythmbox "%s"
[12:01] <seb128> should be a "-"
[12:01] <seb128> url-handlers
[12:01] <seb128> "/desktop/gnome/url-handlers/xu1ms/enabled	true" is correct
[12:02] <seb128> rodrigo_, do you want a bug report about that?
[12:02] <rodrigo_> seb128, as you like, would a change to the package be accepted without a bug #?
[12:02] <rodrigo_> fixing it now, so yeah, file a bug and I'll include it in the package update
[12:03] <seb128> rodrigo_, it will next cycle, maverick will not get new updates now
[12:03] <rodrigo_> seb128, ah, so?
[12:03] <seb128> it will be accepted without a bug # I mean
[12:03] <rodrigo_> do I submit it still?
[12:03] <seb128> rodrigo_, well commit it to your vcs
[12:03] <seb128> it will be in the next upload
[12:03] <rodrigo_> ok
[12:03] <seb128> no need to do an upload for that now since maverick is frozen
[12:03] <seb128> rodrigo_, thanks
[12:05] <rodrigo_> hmm, also, it's u1ms, not xu1ms, I think
[12:05] <rodrigo_> I thought kenvandine had fixed that
[12:05] <seb128> seems he didn't
[12:06] <rodrigo_> I'll check with him
[12:06] <seb128> rodrigo_, ok, I will open a bug for tracking
[12:07] <rodrigo_> seb128, ok, assign it to me, please
[12:08] <seb128> rodrigo_, bug #641050 should be easy to fix as well
[12:08] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 641050 in rhythmbox-ubuntuone-music-store (Ubuntu) "Missing dependency on aptdaemon (affects: 1) (heat: 246)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/641050
[12:08] <rodrigo_> seb128, yeah
[12:18] <seb128> rodrigo_, bug #656248
[12:18] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 656248 in rhythmbox-ubuntuone-music-store (Ubuntu) "incorrect u1ms handlers (affects: 1) (heat: 6)" [Low,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/656248
[12:30] <seb128> ok, the default browser not being set is due to pitti merge, he dropped the diff we had to set firefox by default in ubuntu
[12:30] <seb128> gnome-vfs one
[12:30] <pitti> ?
[12:31] <seb128> though ideally we should probably set those keys in ubuntu-artwork
[12:31] <seb128> pitti, bzr diff -c 10 libgnomevfs2-common.gconf-defaults
[12:31] <seb128> in gnome-vfs
[12:31] <pitti> gnome-vfs! ugh, what's still using that?
[12:31] <seb128> not a lot but it's the source owning the gconf keys
[12:31] <seb128> those keys are using in the gvfs world as well
[12:32] <pitti> so what's wrong with sensible-browser?
[12:32] <seb128> not a lot, it just makes the GNOME capplet be set on "custom command"
[12:32] <seb128> which is less nice for users than having it set on firefox with a proper firefox icon
[12:33] <seb128> gnome-default-applications-properties
[12:34] <didrocks> the good patch seems to set sensible-browser and retrieve which navigator is pointed at, looking for the icon and such… ok, a little bit late for that ;)
[12:35] <seb128> it's mostly a small ui glitch so let's not bother yes
[12:35] <chrisccoulson> hi seb128 - sorry, had to pop out to the garage
[12:35] <seb128> chrisccoulson, no worry
[12:35] <chrisccoulson> no, i didn't notice that before though. is that on a default install?
[12:36] <seb128> yes
[12:36] <seb128> but read the 15 lines before your hi
[12:36] <chrisccoulson> ah, ok. thanks
[13:08] <cyphermox> good morning!
[13:12] <mvo> good morning cyphermox
[13:12] <didrocks> hey cyphermox
[13:13] <cyphermox> mvo: can I remind you about vte? or is it too late now and it should go as SRU?
[13:15] <didrocks> cyphermox: do you know if there is any vpn issue with NM in maverick?
[13:15] <mvo> cyphermox: uploaded as a SRU already
[13:15] <mvo> cyphermox: too late for mav-final :/
[13:15] <cyphermox> didrocks, just saw something about vpnc if set as "available to all users"
[13:15] <cyphermox> mvo: ok
[13:15] <mvo> cyphermox: but it will be a 0-day SRU
[13:16] <didrocks> cyphermox: so, it can be related to bug #655124 ?
[13:16] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 655124 in network-manager-openvpn (Ubuntu) "Network-manager-openvpn connects but can not be used (affects: 2) (heat: 10)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/655124
[13:16] <cyphermox> didrocks, looking now... but there's too little info.
[13:17] <cyphermox> fwiw I tried pptp again yesterday and didn't notice issues, but I'll check both again
[13:17] <didrocks> cyphermox: yeah, I just read that this morning, I think you can ask the reporter some info :)
[13:18] <cyphermox> well, I'll still give it a quick shot first, in case it's really broken :/
[13:18] <didrocks> cyphermox: he is responsive normally
[13:18] <didrocks> great :)
[13:19] <cyphermox> brb, I'll likely lose IRC access
[14:11] <cyphermox> didrocks, looking at that report I don't think it's a bug, just that people generally don't know about the concept of split-tunelling
[14:12] <didrocks> cyphermox: well, I can't blame him, I don't know either (but that can be a good documentation to read) :-) does it mean you can only have one part of your connection through the vpn?
[14:12] <cyphermox> it may be an indication that having split-tunnelling enabled by default would be a good change, but then you'll still have reports from those who expect it not to happen calling this a security issue ;)
[14:13] <cyphermox> didrocks, I'm not blaming anyone, just saying there are two ways to bring up the VPN, and either will have people send bug reports :)
[14:14] <cyphermox> what it means is essentially that when you bring up a VPN, the point is often security and in that case you'll want all traffic to go through it.
[14:14] <didrocks> cyphermox: good to know, to do you have a documentation on that? (just googing will do it maybe in fact) and tell that on the bug report?
[14:14] <didrocks> that sounds right, yeah
[14:14] <cyphermox> however, those who use VPNs to connect to work expect to retain access to the rest of what they had access without VPN, this mode is possible and is called split-tunelling
[14:15] <cyphermox> didrocks, I'll update the bug report after making sure this is really the issue, that will depend on what he responds his routes are
[14:15] <didrocks> oh, you mean then that he can't access to the web, because its destination point doesn't have (like firewill on port 80), right?
[14:15] <didrocks> firewall*
[14:16] <cyphermox> well, it means he can't access the web because his web traffic probably goes through the VPN, and then the VPN box is missing routes to send the traffic to the internet (or it's just not allowed, etc)
[14:17] <cyphermox> huh, right, I misread what you wrote ;)
[14:17] <didrocks> cyphermox: that sounds more than logical. I'm surprized users doesn't see vpn as a huge tube where all your traffic goes
[14:17] <didrocks> don't*
[14:18] <didrocks> and then, you depend on what the end point has access too :)
[14:18] <didrocks> to*
[14:18] <didrocks> grrr :-)
[14:19] <cyphermox> well, people rather see it as some sort of layer that gives them access to work email, put simply
[14:20] <didrocks> ok, weird. thanks for the info cyphermox :-)
[14:20] <didrocks> and you are telling than we can have partial vpn access with NM?
[14:20] <didrocks> like, you define the port(s) you want to go through your VPN access
[14:22] <cyphermox> yes.. there is a checkbox called "Use this connection only for resources on its network" under IPv4, Routes.. and you don't define specific ports but networks through routes if you want to get really specific things
[14:23] <didrocks> cyphermox: good to know, thanks for clearing that up :-)
[14:24] <cyphermox> didrocks, np :)
[14:25] <cyphermox> I was  a network admin in a former life so that's what I was doing for a living :)
[14:26] <rodrigo_> kenvandine, ping
[14:26] <kenvandine> rodrigo_, pong
[14:39] <seb128> rodrigo_, I've assigned you bug #656304
[14:39] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 656304 in libubuntuone (Ubuntu) (and 1 other project) "should build without GTK deprecations (affects: 1) (heat: 6)" [Low,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/656304
[14:39] <seb128> rodrigo_, let me know if it should rather be assigned to somebody else
[14:43] <rodrigo_> seb128, no, I'll fix it
[14:43] <seb128> rodrigo_, sorry I screwed between builds, it was ubuntuone-client which failed
[14:44] <seb128> rodrigo_, so I guess it's rather for dobey
[14:44] <rodrigo_> kenvandine, didn't you fix the xu1ms -> u1ms gconf entries in the rb u1 plugin package?
[14:44] <seb128> rodrigo_, or do you do ubuntuone-client as well?
[14:44] <rodrigo_> seb128, no, that part is my code, so fixing it in asecond
[14:44] <seb128> rodrigo_, ok great
[14:44] <rodrigo_> kenvandine, so, I have a doubt right now, we said the correct one is u1ms, not xu1ms, right?
[14:45] <seb128> rodrigo_, also do you need the dbus gir?
[14:45] <seb128> rodrigo_, it seems to build fine without it and we would like to stop using gir-repository
[14:45] <rodrigo_> seb128, no, it shouldn't need it, there's a bug about it, but not sure why there's that
[14:45] <dobey> humm?
[14:46] <kenvandine> rodrigo_, it is u1ms
[14:46] <rodrigo_> kenvandine, ok, submitting a fixed package then
[14:46] <kenvandine> rodrigo_, is it broken again?
[14:46] <seb128> kenvandine, "still" ;-)
[14:46] <seb128> not "again"
[14:46] <kenvandine> i had tested the fix...
[14:47] <kenvandine> never uploaded?
[14:47]  * kenvandine is confused
[14:47] <rodrigo_> kenvandine, the package has xu1ms, that's why I asked you, I thought you fixed it
[14:47] <seb128> dobey, ignore the ping, rodrigo_ is taking care of that (updating ubuntuone-client to build with current gtk without deprecation)
[14:47] <rodrigo_> well, the ~ubuntu-desktop branch
[14:47] <seb128> kenvandine, the gconf default is buggy
[14:47]  * rodrigo_ checks the ubuntu branch
[14:47] <seb128> kenvandine, you tested the code fix?
[14:47] <kenvandine> gconf default
[14:48] <kenvandine> but i thought rodrigo_ had uploaded it...
[14:48] <dobey> huh
[14:48] <rodrigo_> kenvandine, hmm, ok, I thought you were going to upload it, so that's why it didn't get fixed :)
[14:48] <rodrigo_> kenvandine, proposing my branch now
[14:48] <kenvandine> oh...
[14:48] <dobey> ok
[14:49] <seb128> kenvandine, https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-branches/ubuntu/maverick/rhythmbox-ubuntuone-music-store/maverick
[14:49] <rodrigo_> seb128, well, I have permissions for rb u1 plugin, should I upload the package?
[14:49] <seb128> kenvandine, no fix in there
[14:49] <seb128> rodrigo_, you need to do a sru now
[14:49] <seb128> ie upload to maverick-proposed
[14:50] <rodrigo_> seb128, so, just a merge proposal?
[14:50] <kenvandine> the changelog says it was fixed
[14:50] <kenvandine> * debian/rhythmbox-ubuntuone-music-store.gconf-defaults:
[14:50] <kenvandine>   - Set default values for u1ms:// URL handlers (LP: #643638)
[14:50] <kenvandine> in rev 51
[14:50] <rodrigo_> seb128, or dput to maverick-proposed?
[14:51] <kenvandine> oh... that was the first time it was fixed :)
[14:51] <kenvandine> adding the xu1ms
[14:51] <seb128> rodrigo_, check with kenvandine
[14:51] <seb128> rodrigo_, I would commit it in the vcs as unreleased
[14:51] <rodrigo_> kenvandine, yes
[14:51] <seb128> you can maybe combine with some other fixes and do a sru next week
[14:51] <seb128> if you think you will have other fixes to upload
[14:52] <rodrigo_> seb128, I have a couple of fixes in this branch, and a bug in upstream rb plugin, so yeah, I'll do a SRU next week
[14:52] <seb128> ok great
[14:52] <kenvandine> great, thx rodrigo_
[15:24] <rodrigo_> seb128, https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~rodrigo-moya/ubuntuone-client/dont-use-dialog-vbox/+merge/37852
[15:25] <rodrigo_> seb128, no need for you to review, just letting you know the fixes are on their way :)
[15:25] <seb128> rodrigo_, great ;-)
[15:50] <seb128> https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bugs?field.tag=gnome3-gsettings
[15:51] <seb128> new tasks for those who want
[15:52] <rodrigo_> seb128, oh, working on gsettings migration for g-s-d, g-c-c, so having a look...
[15:52] <seb128> not sure how practical it is yet for python users though
[15:53] <seb128> rodrigo_, ^ do you know?
[15:53] <rodrigo_> seb128, btw, did you see the ' Moduleset Reorganization -- Take two' thread in d-d-l
[15:53] <rodrigo_> seb128, hmm, not sure, let me look
[15:53] <seb128> is there a python gsettings api? or do we need gir and newer pygobject?
[15:53] <seb128> rodrigo_, yes
[15:53] <rodrigo_> I guess it is via gir bindings, yes
[15:54] <rodrigo_> I assume they are available, since the whole of glib is bound, let me check
[16:00] <seb128> rodrigo_, this list is mostly easy code to port btw so feel free to start by helping GNOME migrating to gsettings
[16:01] <seb128> rodrigo_, btw do you know what will happen for things like http proxy?
[16:01] <seb128> we will probably not port all the software reading that key in one cycle
[16:01] <rodrigo_> seb128, yeah, I'll start probably tomorrow on that list when idle
[16:01] <seb128> will g-c-c 2.91 still write in gconf?
[16:02] <rodrigo_> seb128, not sure yet, we're still going over all the settings and see what to use instead
[16:02] <rodrigo_> seb128, no, g-s-d now writes all its own settings in gsettings
[16:02] <seb128> rodrigo_, btw do you have other pointers than http://library.gnome.org/devel/gio/unstable/migrating.html and the api?
[16:02] <seb128> rodrigo_, just trying to figure what infos would be useful in those bug reports
[16:02] <rodrigo_> seb128, changing g-c-c now, and the last phase is going over all gconf entries and migrate/replace
[16:03] <rodrigo_> seb128, hmm, no
[16:03] <seb128> rodrigo_, I think we need some code to still write some keys in gconf as well than gsettings
[16:03] <rodrigo_> seb128, in fact, I had to look at other modules' code to see how to write the conversion script, for instance
[16:03] <rodrigo_> seb128, or a gconf-gsettings bridge?
[16:03] <seb128> rodrigo_, http://library.gnome.org/devel/gio/unstable/ch27s07.html
[16:03] <seb128> ?
[16:04] <seb128> rodrigo_, yeah, or something watching one side and updating the other side
[16:04] <rodrigo_> seb128, since we have the keys relation, it shouldn't be hard to do
[16:04] <rodrigo_> we offer a gconf API, and that translates to gsettings API and keys
[16:04] <rodrigo_> it should be easy
[16:05] <rodrigo_> seb128, ah, didn't see that page, cool
[16:07] <rodrigo_> seb128, hmm, in fact, I guess desrt has thought already about that
[16:07] <rodrigo_> desrt, ?
[16:17] <seb128> rodrigo_, is this one for you?
[16:17] <seb128> bug #656342
[16:17] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 656342 in libubuntuone (Ubuntu) "should not require gconf to build (affects: 1) (heat: 6)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/656342
[16:18] <rodrigo_> seb128, yes
[16:18] <seb128> rodrigo_, ;-)
[16:19] <rodrigo_> :)
[16:20] <seb128> rodrigo_, those are nothing you need to fix now btw, I'm just building a todolist for next cycle
[16:22] <rodrigo_> seb128, they are easy to fix, so just fixing them as you pass them to me :-)
[16:22] <rodrigo_> keep sending easy to fix bugs, no problem
[16:22] <desrt> rodrigo_: hi
[16:22] <seb128> :-)
[16:23] <rodrigo_> if they are harder, just don't let me know :)
[16:23] <rodrigo_> hey desrt
[16:23] <seb128> lol
[16:23] <rodrigo_> desrt, seb128 and I were talking about proxy settings in gconf, which are used by lots of apps
[16:23] <seb128> hey desrt
[16:23] <desrt> rodrigo_: gsettings desktop schemas
[16:24] <rodrigo_> desrt, I wonder if there are plans to have a gconf API that writes to gsettings and translates the key paths?
[16:24] <rodrigo_> desrt, yes, no problem with porting core apps to gsettings
[16:24] <desrt> gsettings-data-convert
[16:24] <seb128> that's not dynamic
[16:24] <seb128> ie imagine firefox is still watching the gconf key
[16:24] <rodrigo_> desrt, yes, but I mean the 3rd party apps that use gconf to read that
[16:24] <desrt> ah.
[16:24]  * chrisccoulson hides
[16:24] <seb128> while g-c-c writes the new values in gsettings
[16:25] <rodrigo_> ideally all will be ported, but there are too many
[16:25] <desrt> the idea was that g-c-c was supposed to write the values to both places
[16:25] <seb128> ideally and real world are different ;-)
[16:25] <chrisccoulson> porting firefox to gsettings is on my todo list if nobody beats me to it
[16:25] <rodrigo_> desrt, oh? really? I'm already porting it to gsettings and removing all gconf usage
[16:25] <seb128> chrisccoulson, do you think upstream would agree with it or with us distro patching it next cycle if it doesn't land in their trunk?
[16:25] <desrt> rodrigo_: my understanding was that for a cycle or two, control-centre was supposed to update the gconf settings as well
[16:26] <seb128> rodrigo_, that's sort what we said would make sense at the last UDS
[16:26] <chrisccoulson> seb128 - probably, it shouldn't be too difficult
[16:26] <chrisccoulson> it's only using gconf for the URI handlers and default browser setting
[16:26] <rodrigo_> desrt, seb128: I missed that part, and anyway, it would complicate the code a lot, I think
[16:26] <seb128> chrisccoulson, I though it would rather be political issues, like they would not want to update their glib requirement yet and not want us to distro patch things they want in their trunk
[16:26] <desrt> rodrigo_: the other option is that we have a daemon that makes gconf a slave to gsettings
[16:26] <desrt> part of gnome-settings-daemon, i guess
[16:26] <rodrigo_> I think it would be easier to provide libgconf doing the internal conversion
[16:27] <rodrigo_> desrt, or that, yes
[16:27] <desrt> monitors dconf keys for changes and pushes them into gconf
[16:27] <rodrigo_> desrt, ok, that sounds good also
[16:27] <seb128> would work for me
[16:27] <rodrigo_> desrt, libgconf is not being removed from GNOME 3 modulesets?
[16:27] <desrt> who cares?
[16:27] <desrt> everyone will ship it anyway :)
[16:27] <rodrigo_> heh, right :-)
[16:28] <chrisccoulson> seb128 - we can make it optional. the GIO support in ff-4.0 is already optional
[16:28] <desrt> if you upstream this 'feature' for gnome-settings-daemon it can be conditionally enabled
[16:28] <seb128> desrt, well you sort of care if you want gnome-settings-daemon writting in gconf
[16:28] <seb128> right
[16:28] <seb128> chrisccoulson, ok, great
[16:28] <rodrigo_> desrt, yeah, sounds good, and much better than having g-c-c writing to both places
[16:29] <desrt> rodrigo_: be careful though
[16:29] <rodrigo_> also, it would work for all settings
[16:29] <desrt> rodrigo_: you don't want the pushing of data from dconf to gconf to interfere with the one-time gconf to dconf migration scripts
[16:29] <rodrigo_> I guess it should check the *.convert scripts and just listen to changes on those
[16:29] <desrt> could have a nasty race there resulting in mass "forgetting" of all the user's preferences
[16:29] <rodrigo_> yeah
[16:31] <desrt> btw: i think you're right about the control center using only dconf
[16:31] <desrt> binding UI to settings is bad enough.  doing it twice to the same UI is just gross
[16:32] <rodrigo_> desrt, yes
[16:43]  * desrt steps out
[17:13] <glatzor> evening mvo
[17:14] <glatzor> mvo, I added an apt configuration file writting mechanism to aptdaemon today. Would be nice if you could have a look at it (perhaps after the release :)
[18:00] <devildante> mvo: around?
[18:12] <seb128> https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bugs?field.searchtext=&field.tag=gnome3-gtk3+gnome3-gsettings+gnome3-gtkbuilder&field.tags_combinator=ANY
[18:12] <seb128> gnome3 cleaning tasks
[18:15] <seb128> ok, I'm away for sport and dinner
[18:15] <seb128> bbl
[18:15] <fagan> rickspencer3: can you schedule this https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/appdevs-desktop-n-encouraging-game-development there seems to be a good amount of interest
[18:15] <fagan> seb128: good luck
[18:16] <rickspencer3> fagan, will do, but prolly next week
[18:16] <rickspencer3> don't worry
[18:16] <fagan> kk
[18:16] <fagan> no problem
[18:16] <rickspencer3> and we'll put it in the last session so you can be there
[18:17] <fagan> awesome
[18:17] <fagan> I think I can catch about half the sessions in the days anyway
[18:20] <fagan> florida is like 5 hours behind so I think ill only miss 1 session with my college times
[18:22] <fagan> the only thing ill find really interesting is running a session from Ireland :P
[18:25] <kklimonda> sounds like fun :)
[18:27] <fagan> kklimonda: well ill probably ask someone to gmail me into the room beforehand
[18:27] <fagan> so I can be (almost) live
[18:27] <kklimonda> skype! ;)
[18:27] <kklimonda> what session do you have?
[18:28] <fagan> kklimonda: https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/appdevs-desktop-n-encouraging-game-development
[18:31] <kklimonda> fagan: heh, it's a great thing to discuss but, imo, the only real problem is not enough users for companies to port games to Ubuntu. an opt-out canonical-census would be useful. But it's not a discussion for now, I'm subscribing myself :)
[18:32] <fagan> kklimonda: well the entire idea I think is something we can build up and go oh by the way if you port your game you can use all of this cool stuff already made.
[18:32] <kklimonda> count me and my pessimizm in ;)
[18:33] <fagan> And maybe some open source games should push to the trophy system to get it started to show it off
[18:33] <fagan> its really about giving the area something to build on
[18:34] <kklimonda> fagan: the problem is how can we become better than Steam at this? Because, if everything goes as planned, they are going to port Steam to Linux. And Steam SDK (the part given to developers so they can integrate steam with their games) is fairly complex.
[18:35] <fagan> yeah well we can better steam just by making it usable with any language id say by making most of it dbus accessable
[18:35] <kklimonda> fagan: 99.5% of games is written in C++ anyway.
[18:36] <fagan> so the idea could be done and integrated in with like a few lines of code for everything id say
[18:36] <fagan> but the win for those few lines is a lot
[18:37] <fagan> so even syncing save games, steam does it and we have our u1 sync so we just need to advertise that more
[18:37] <kklimonda> sure
[18:37] <fagan> the biggest change is the software center things
[18:37]  * kklimonda is just saying that it's a terribly huge and complicated matter
[18:37] <fagan> but that even shouldnt be (too) complex
[18:37] <fagan> yeah
[18:38] <fagan> it is fairly huge
[18:38] <fagan> kklimonda: if you think about it by the next LTS everything that I have in the wiki page could be done with time to spare i think
[18:38] <kklimonda> first thing we should do is talk to indie developers who has used steam works - what did they like, what didn't etc.
[18:39] <fagan> well I talked with a few game devs that i know about it
[18:39] <kklimonda> we won't be able to implement anti-cheat or drm probably but the rest of APIs is doable if we have enough resources.
[18:40] <fagan> and they thought the ideas were sound enough
[18:40] <fagan> well anti-cheat could be done
[18:40] <fagan> but drm hell no
[18:40] <kklimonda> fagan: but was it because there is no such service for ubuntu or because it may be up to par with Steam?
[18:40] <fagan> but still auth services instead of drm would be nice
[18:40] <kklimonda> fagan: well, if we are interested in games we need some sort of drm
[18:40] <fagan> well steam doesnt use drm
[18:40] <kklimonda> it does
[18:40] <kklimonda> it's just well done
[18:41] <fagan> at least in the traditional sense
[18:41] <kklimonda> sure - I'm not talking about securom or similar measures that take away fun.
[18:41] <fagan> well personally anti-cheat stuff is up to the developer
[18:42] <kklimonda> but it's something Valve provides with Steam - another thing developers don't have to write themselves.
[18:42] <fagan> the content distribution if they are using the software center would just need auth services instead of drm
[18:42] <fagan> hmmmm
[18:42] <fagan> interesting point
[18:42] <kklimonda> there are two or three anti-cheat systems I'm aware of
[18:43] <kklimonda> because it's a hard task to get it right - Blizzard can do it themselves for WoW (and then reuse it)
[18:43] <kklimonda> but afair most games use some ready framework for that.
[18:43] <kklimonda> also, the whole idea is good only if we get a lot of support from Canonical.
[18:44] <fagan> so the two main things that steam make ish are http://www.steampowered.com/steamworks/publishingservices.php http://www.steampowered.com/steamworks/developmenttools.php
[18:44] <Laney> i can just patch anything out
[18:44] <fagan> yeah it would need a lot of help from canonical because it centers around the marketplace and thats run by them too
[18:44] <fagan> so it would need full support from them
[18:45] <kklimonda> aroung marketplace, around ubuntu one, around deep system internals.
[18:45] <fagan> well it doesnt go too far deep into the system I dont think
[18:45] <fagan> the deepest it goes is the software center
[18:45] <kklimonda> is it even possible to create a DRM system, even such as present in Steam, with open technologies?
[18:46] <fagan> well content distribution protection is tricky
[18:46] <kklimonda> even if the system part is open source then people can just recompile it to disable drm and then distribute games
[18:46] <fagan> but anything is possable with time
[18:46] <kklimonda> sure, but it's much more tricky with Linux because so much is open
[18:46] <kklimonda> sure, every drm scheme can (and usually is) cracked in a matter of weeks, if not daysa
[18:47] <kklimonda> but actually every day and week matters because most games have a huge surge of sales just after release and then its dropping fast
[18:47] <fagan> the easiest way to do it id say is make a new user on the system for the software center and give it rwx and disable rwx for everything else except the binary but they can still get at from root
[18:48] <fagan> but since most people wouldnt know about that id expect it would take a while for some people
[18:49] <fagan> and if there was a auth service too it would make it harder again
[18:49] <kklimonda> fagan: all you need is one person who knows how to bypass drm and it's done.
[18:49] <fagan> yeah
[18:50] <kklimonda> fagan: it also takes some knowledge to crack windows/mac os x games but then they are distributed with crack over p2p
[18:50] <fagan> well if its a C binary with auth protection it would be a lot lot harder
[18:50] <fagan> id say
[18:50] <fagan> or C++
[18:51] <kklimonda> fagan: at the beginning, before some "professional" cracking group decides its worth their time to work on it.
[18:51] <fagan> well I havent seen any of that for linux yet
[18:51] <kklimonda> fagan: I have
[18:51] <fagan> so we can work on that over time anyway if its needed
[18:52] <kklimonda> fagan: there weren't many Linux games with DRM to begin with
[18:52] <kklimonda> fagan: but it's possible to download X3 from LGP
[18:52] <kklimonda> it has a drm system but there is a crack (or maybe it's already cracked executable)
[18:52] <bcurtiswx_> Hey all, for those who use the weather part of the calendar panel app.  Does it work (because mine isn't)
[18:53] <bcurtiswx_> i have a location set and the checkbox next to "show weather" checked
[18:53] <fagan> bcurtiswx_: the weather part was removed from the new clock
[18:53] <fagan> i think
[18:53] <fagan> because it made no sense there
[18:53] <bcurtiswx_> fagan, well then there probably shouldn't be an option to use it...
[18:53] <fagan> there is a clock applet
[18:53] <kklimonda> bcurtiswx_: well, it works for me
[18:53] <kklimonda> bcurtiswx_: in the old clock applet (i.e. not the one from indicator-date)
[18:54] <bcurtiswx_> kklimonda, so i'd have to rid of indicator-date ?
[18:54] <bcurtiswx_> or mess with the old clock applet to only show weather?
[18:54] <fagan> or install the applet
[18:55] <kklimonda> bcurtiswx_: no idea if you can show only weather with the old applet
[18:55] <kklimonda> lets see
[18:55] <bcurtiswx_> fagan, OK. IIRC someone's working on a weather applet.. not sure though
[18:56] <bcurtiswx_> might be joey from OMGUbuntu.
[18:56] <jcastro> it's on launchpad
[18:56] <bcurtiswx_> libgweather?
[18:56] <jcastro> https://launchpad.net/weather-indicator
[18:56]  * fagan was searching for the link 
[18:56] <fagan> thanks jcastro
[18:57] <jcastro> looks like it could use some help
[18:57] <bcurtiswx_> jcastro, ah.  thanks jcastro
[18:57] <bcurtiswx_> lol, extreme short term memory loss
[18:58]  * fagan has that all the time anyway 
[19:00] <chrisccoulson> seb128 - gnome bug 626966 is the firefox crash btw
[19:00] <ubot2> Gnome bug 626966 in general "SIGFPE _hb_sanitize_array" [Normal,Resolved: fixed] http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=626966
[19:00] <chrisccoulson> we should probably get that fix in as a SRU
[19:02] <chrisccoulson> dear launchpad, please stop logging me out, thank you
[19:03] <devildante> chrisccoulson: I get that too
[19:05] <fagan> chrisccoulson: seb128 is out
[19:05] <chrisccoulson> fagan, yeah, but he will see the scrollback later ;)
[19:05] <fagan> ah
[20:28] <seb128> chrisccoulson, is that one of the commit from .2?
[20:28] <seb128> chrisccoulson, yes, we should sru it, I planned to sru the update
[21:10] <chrisccoulson> seb128 - yeah, that commit is for .2 i think
[21:19] <devildante> mvo: ping
[21:29] <mvo> hey devildante
[21:29] <devildante> mvo: I saw there is mime support in software-center now
[21:30] <mvo> devildante: yeah, its relatively basic currently, but I think quite nice
[21:30] <mvo> devildante: it opens up new zeitgeist possibilities as well
[21:30] <devildante> mvo: I'd be interested to implement support for it across the desktop, so we can replace gnome-codec-install and others :)
[21:30] <mvo> devildante: coooool
[21:30] <mvo> devildante: you are welcome to do that :)
[21:31] <mvo> devildante: for the codecs its a litle bit more complicated because they are not just mime types
[21:31] <mvo> devildante: but it would be great if s-c could handle the "missing mimetype" that nautilus can send out
[21:32] <devildante> mvo: I remember when I installed debian for the first time, I was amazed at how nautilus offers to install missing programs for a mimetype via synaptic
[21:33] <fagan> that sounds awesome mvo
[21:33] <fagan> can that be done for things like wine and all too?
[21:34] <fagan> so if someone runs a .exe it installs wine
[21:34] <mvo> fagan: for missing binaries? yeah, I think so
[21:34] <fagan> that sounds cool
[21:34] <mvo> :)
[21:34]  * mvo likes it as well
[21:34] <devildante> I already have some ideas for wine + usc
[21:35] <fagan> damn mouse
[21:35] <fagan> :/
[21:35] <mvo> devildante: go wild :) I will work tomorrow on the reviews branch I think, so the rest is free to grab/improve
[21:36] <devildante> mvo: we could support some specific windows programs, so that when - for example - user decides to install msoffice 2003, usc opens and offers to configure everything
[21:36] <mvo> devildante: i was plying with caching for the history reading to avoid parsing the full history over and over again, but then I got distracted :/
[21:36] <devildante> I'll handle it! :)
[21:36] <mvo> devildante: I'm sure YokoZar likes to hear about those ideas, he is the wine guru
[21:37] <mvo> devildante: he had this idea about a plugin so that we can display installed windows apps in the "installed software" section too
[21:37] <mvo> devildante: cool, please :) my appraoch was a simple "cPickle" in SOFTWARE_CENTER_CACHE_DIR
[21:37] <mvo> devildante: if you can expand that, that would rock, alternative solutions than the pickle are fine as well of course
[21:37] <devildante> what's that "cPickle"?
[21:38]  * devildante is not that fluent in Python
[21:38] <mvo> devildante: its basicly a way to write objects to disk
[21:38] <devildante> mvo: like, you write a temporary file containing the history?
[21:39] <mvo> devildante: so AptHistory.transactions is a list currently that we can cPickle.dump(self.transactions, open("cachefile","w")
[21:39] <mvo> then on the next startup it can self.transactions = cPickle.load(open("cachefile"))
[21:39] <mvo> devildante: now the tricky part is to skip the files/entries in the apthistory that we loaded this way
[21:39] <devildante> mvo: is cPicke in the python stdlib?
[21:40] <mvo> devildante: yeah
[21:40] <devildante> 'kay, great :)
[21:40]  * devildante goes toward docs.python.org
[21:40] <mvo>  pydoc cPickle (but not as nice as docs.python.org :)
[21:41] <devildante> cool! :)
[21:49] <devildante> mvo: "devildante: now the tricky part is to skip the files/entries in the apthistory that we loaded this way" What do you mean by "skip"? like "not load it"?
[21:52] <mvo> devildante: yeah, like not read it. i.e. if /var/log/apt/history.1.gz was read already then we don't need to re-read it on next startup, we have it in the cache. unfortuantely the log rotation will move history.1.gz to history.2.gz at some point
[21:52] <mvo> devildante: so a bit more cleverness will be needed
[21:53] <devildante> maybe cache all of the history.*.gz files?
[21:53] <mvo> devildante: indeed, but when the history file changes, we need to re-read the new entries
[21:54] <mvo> devildante: thats what I meant with tricky, probably not super-hard, but needs a little bit of thought
[21:55] <devildante> mvo: so we have to detect when the history.*.gz is changed, if yes, read the entries, if not, read the cache?
[21:56] <mvo> devildante: yes, I think that is it. and ideally (because the files only "grow") we should be able to re-use the cache and read only until we are at the point that we have in the cache already (I hope this makes sense, I have to admit that I'm a bit tired already)
[21:57] <devildante> yeah, that makes sense :)
[21:57] <mvo> great :)
[21:57] <devildante> now the application might not be that clear :p
[21:57] <mvo> hehehe
[21:57] <mvo> there is no rush, just play with it, I'm sure you will come up with some good ideas :)
[21:58] <devildante> hehe, thanks :)
[21:58] <devildante> mvo: so you said you'll play with ratings/reviews tomorrow? client-side or server-side?
[22:00] <mvo> devildante: just client side, I pushed lp:~mvo/software-center/reviews that contains some ugly UI
[22:01] <mvo> devildante: but its working :) against a simple server and with SOFTWARE_CENTER_IPSUM_REVIEWS=1 in the environment it will just generate random reivews
[22:01] <devildante> great :)
[22:01] <mvo> devildante: but ubuntu single-sign-on integration is missing currently for a start, so that is probably my next target
[22:21] <mvo> devildante: have a good evening, I need to go to bed now
[22:21] <devildante> bye :)
[23:33]  * cyphermox -> beer
[23:38] <RAOF> Surely that should be cyphermox ← beer :)
[23:39] <TheMuso> lol
[23:50] <jcastro> hey RAOF, any idea what we can do for bug #636311?
[23:50] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 636311 in xserver-xorg-input-evdev (Ubuntu) (and 1 other project) "Keyboard special keys interfere with mouse (affects: 11) (dups: 1) (heat: 64)" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/636311
[23:50] <jcastro> A friend of mine ran into it and it's pretty brutal, I've proposed it for at least release notes
[23:53] <RAOF> Pray harder to the dark gods of chaos?
[23:53] <RAOF> Looking.
[23:56] <jcastro> All I have is a goat's head
[23:58] <RAOF> Could you perhaps graft it to a sheep to create an abomination unto nature?  That might help. ;)
[23:58] <TheMuso> lol