[00:11] Hi. I'm trying to get nmbd/smbd to restart properly when I make changes, but I wind up having to kill them because upstart wants me to use "service smbd restart" or "service smbd stop" and then says "restart/stop: unknown instance" [00:12] how can I get smbd/nmbd to restart properly without resorting to kil? [00:16] hello...what's the fundamental difference between ubuntu-server and ubuntu-desktop? [00:16] err, desktop and server versions of ubuntu [00:17] server is stripped down, no X interface [00:17] I'm trying to install a *-dev package in Desktop, and it can't find it [00:17] whereas my server instance can... [00:17] is there something I'm missing? [00:17] check to see if they're using the same sources in apt-get? [00:19] they're largely identical, afaik. So they should be able to find and install the same packages. Be careful that you're not committing yourself to loading x11 if you use aptitude, though, as it tries to resolve dependencies [00:19] ubuntu server and desktop use the same apt repositories, so you have one enabled on your server that is not enabled on your desktop [00:20] the biggest difference is the default package set [00:20] the kernels are slightly different too [00:20] but they're the same core OS, and everything from one can be installed on the other [00:21] The_Paco, you're looking for "service samba restart" [00:22] gah, lame. I needed to apt-get update first. [00:22] or maybe not [00:22] that's what it is on karmic [00:23] on lucid both smbd and nmbd exist [00:24] ah [00:24] well [00:24] a whole lot of names changed in lucid, very frustrating [00:24] ... no, says unrecognized service [00:25] but anyway, that error means that upstart is attempting to stop a PID that doesn't exist [00:25] is there some kind of better place for learning about upstart than that anemic wiki of theirs? [00:25] I'm feeling that the community has yet to get behind it, despite it now almost completely replacing init for us [00:26] it completely replaced init a long time ago [00:26] ubuntu's been using it in sysv compatibility mode since, I want to say, 6.10 [00:26] it's only just now to the point where a lot of services have native upstart scripts [00:27] fun [00:27] where are the upstart scripts held, then? [00:27] I'm really not a fan of upstart [00:27] /etc/init/ [00:27] I'm starting to understand that mindset [00:28] okay, so same place [00:28] no [00:28] sysv scritpts are/were in /etc/init.d/ [00:28] oh yeah that's right [00:28] in my opinion upstart overcomplicates things [00:28] not that it's a bad idea at its core [00:30] if you're interested in some reading, I found this idea to be brilliant http://0pointer.de/blog/projects/systemd.html [00:30] it's fighting with itself [00:31] yeah, I'll read it [00:32] I've got to learn how to manage these things properly. Init.d was annoying but at least by the time I was slightly familiar with it it was consistent. Trying to run the smbd upstart script puts me in an endless loop admonishing me to use certain commands while ignoring the ones I give and spawning more smbd's [00:32] yeah [00:33] somehow, your smbd is running outside of upstart [00:33] a reboot would probably fix it, though you should be able to just kill it and start a new one [00:33] if it's not working, something else is getting in the way [00:36] it's been a while since a reboot, what could it hurt. Few mins. [00:40] huh, actually seems to be behaving now, funny that [00:40] just goes to show that even with linux, the first troubleshooting step is always to restart and see if that fixes it [00:41] well, that's the easy way [00:41] but it's also almost never actually necessary [00:41] question is, is it worth the time to figure it out [00:41] I'm extraordinarily good at breaking things [00:41] New bug: #656048 in amavisd-new (main) "package amavisd-new-postfix (not installed) failed to install/upgrade: subprocess installed post-installation script returned error exit status 1" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/656048 [00:42] couldn't hurt, wave of the future and all that. Thanks. Later [01:48] * freeflying [01:51] Is this a good place to ask a beginner question about postfix? [01:52] Reasonably ok, paul_whipp. [01:52] thanks Amgine - it looked a bit quiet; [01:53] It's quite quiet, but you'll never know unless you ask your question. [01:53] I am a web developer and I've been using ssmtp but I need to change it to postfix. I can probably deal with the installation and configuration once I understand what it means by hostname - does this need to be a known domain for the mail server? [01:55] the hostname it asks for in the debconf menu is the domain you want that server to receive mail for [01:55] http://www.postfix.org/VIRTUAL_README.html#canonical [01:55] I want it to receive email for lots of domains though [01:55] then think of it as the primary domain [01:56] you can add more though additional configuration [01:56] ok, thx [01:56] [01:56] painful, but you should be able to work through it. [01:57] it is - I just want it to send the mail for each domain (and not route it through gmail like I had ssmtp doing) [01:58] mail is a lot of work [01:59] local mail is no big deal, but mail on the internet has to be done right, otherwise your messages will just get marked as spam [01:59] and you don't want to get your IP blacklisted [02:00] Yes - I've been dragged into this by clients sticking around on my 'test' server in the cloud. Their email forms all come from 'me' as the gmail sender. [02:01] I guess I'm just going to have to plough through it. === ivoks is now known as ivoks-afk [02:04] Is there any reason I can't try postfix out by installing it on my desktop machine (it has a static IP)? [02:10] no [02:10] thanks qman, I'll try it there first. [02:10] I actually run postfix in a smarthost configuration on mine to forward SMART messages and such [02:11] I've been using ssmtp there too but I can afford to break it [02:11] pumped to my main server, which sends them through a gmail account to me [02:11] I know postfix is overkill for that use, but it's what I know [02:11] * ScottK has postfix on ~every computer he owns down to and including his netbook. [02:11] yep [02:12] Wow. OK - I think I'll have more questions soon. I'm going to work through the installation and configuration locally now. [02:12] that extra few K of RAM is insignificant compared to the hundreds of megs web browsers leak [02:13] ssmtp has served me well for forwarding to my gmail account for system stuff and it only took a few minutes to install and set up. I'm going to miss it. [02:14] postfix is easy to set up that way for the clients, just pick smarthost and point to your server [02:14] Postfix is at least as easy to install for a relay (as qman__ says) [02:14] the server took a little more time to set up, but not more than a couple hours [02:15] google time included [02:15] Longest it ever took me to set up a Postfix server was about 3 hours. [02:15] And that was starting from boxes of parts on a table. [02:16] it only gets complicated with a 'real' server on the internet [02:16] Hmm... I will need a 'real' server for the clients although it only needs to send mail so far. [02:16] yeah [02:17] but you still need to get it right, because fishy headers equal spam, and that means blacklist [02:17] [02:17] Is there an easy way to 'know' I've got it right (no fishy headers or open relay)? [02:19] open relay is easy to test [02:19] and sending test mail to your own personal accounts, and checking the headers should factor in the anti-spam measures [02:20] qman: thx, how do I test open relay? [02:20] telnet in on 25 and attempt to send mail without authenticating [02:20] qman: thx. I can do that. [02:21] by default, I'm pretty sure it allows open relay on the local subnet [02:21] so you'd have to change that [02:21] ok. I'm going to try installing it and see if I can put some of this into practice. [02:22] <_Techie_> how to disable TLS in postfix? [02:22] It's not enabled by default. [02:22] paul_whipp: By default, Postfix is not an open relay, so you don't need to worry about that much unless you edit configuration files. [02:23] thx ScottK [02:27] Did ubuntu cut out the adaptec driver from the kernel? [02:27] in 10.04 [02:28] all the things I'm reading on adaptec's Linux blog seem to indicate (for previous ubuntu versions) that the code is already included... [02:28] but it doesn't appear to be for 10.04? [02:42] electrofreak: "the adaptec driver" ? [02:43] aacraid [02:44] SpamapS, ^^ [02:45] linux-image-2.6.35-22-generic: /lib/modules/2.6.35-22-generic/kernel/drivers/scsi/aacraid/aacraid.ko [02:45] its in maverick [02:45] is maverick 10.10? (I don't keep up with these silly names) [02:45] electrofreak: yes, 10.10 [02:45] which is out in 4 days ;) [02:46] wait a second... I have it in my libs, too... [02:46] why isn't my card being seen? [02:47] lspci sees it... but I'm not getting any /devs for my array [02:47] electrofreak: I'm always fuxzy on how initrd's work .. but maybe its not in there? [02:47] electrofreak: lsmod | grep aacraid [02:48] well, I just modprobed it... and it inserted... [02:48] what would the devs come up as? [02:49] I forget [02:49] wait... there it is [02:49] I'm so sorry... this appears to have been a retard moment, brought to you by electrofreak. everything is working.... [02:50] it is /dev/sda... so it must have been there at boot. [02:50] :-D [02:50] actually [02:50] the modprobe would have created it [02:50] SpamapS, nothing printed out recently in dmesg.... [02:51] and now that I look more closely at dmesg, I do see it initializing... about 2.2 seconds after kernel started timing. [02:51] so, my bad. [02:52] * SpamapS drums fingers waiting for AT&T EDGE speeds.. [02:52] now what we need is ASM/arcconf in apt... [02:53] adaptec is working on improving support for debian based distros... [02:53] so I was able to get it setup from a build they mentioned in their blog. [02:53] now I need to reboot though. flashed new firmware to my card. Thanks SpamapS! [03:08] more postfix questions: I installed it fine on my local machine and I set it up to relay to gmail but how do I specify the port? [03:16] postfix trouble: I just tried using smtp.gmail.com:587 but then I get a certificate failure message in the log. Don't really want a certificate. How do I get relay to gmail to work? [03:22] apt-get install ca-certificates [03:22] that cert's in the default list [03:23] twb: why do I need a cert? [03:23] YOU don't [03:24] But postfix needs to be told to trust the cert that smtp.gmail.com is using [03:25] If ca-certificates is installed and you haven't unchecked any options in the low-priority debconf prompts, that SHOULD be the default behaviour (unless postfix is very weird). [03:25] I already have it installed [03:25] I have no idea about prompts so I guess I did not uncheck any [03:25] Then pastebin the full transcript and/or talk to #postfix about it [03:25] ok, thx [03:29] http://paste.debian.net/94002/ <-- you should have something like this [03:38] thanks twb. It actually sent the mails in the end - it seems the certificate line was just a warning. [03:38] I have a working postfix server :-D [03:38] Whatever [03:39] Now I just need to work out how "not to relay" [03:40] That should also be the default behaviour [03:42] twb: I hope so, I'm going to comment out the gmail relay configuration and give it a go. [03:42] Anyone have a fix for this error? status: Unable to connect to system bus: Failed to connect to socket /var/run/dbus/system_bus_socket: No such file or directory [03:42] it happens when I try to check status on a service [03:43] Dravekx: are you checking in a login shell? [03:43] paul_whipp, no. checking samba status. but it gives me the error no matter what service status I check via SSH. [03:43] or lol. that's what you asked. [03:44] Somewhere in postconf there are options on which domains you accept mail for [03:44] any idea on a fix? [03:45] Dravekx: dbus is a pain. If you google you'll find some variables you need to set up for it to work. [03:46] twb: Luckily I only want to send mail to begin with [03:46] If your 25 and 587 are closed, then you aren't an open relay [03:46] Cool. I can fix that easily in the firewall to be certain. [03:47] Except potentially in the more general sense, like having a "send this page to a friend!" feature on your website [03:47] Dravekx: Hang on... I'll dig something up [03:48] paul_whipp, Ahhhh... nvm... I got it. I wasnt using root. [03:48] it's a samba issue now. [03:49] Dravekx: ok cool. [03:49] Hello, does anyone know how to add groups to groups? [03:50] I'm running xfce on my ubuntu-server, and the groups for services (such as www-data) are well *ahem* groups, not users. [03:51] On my Ubuntu (not server) machine, these users are users, not groups (www-data for example). [03:51] zanthir, they are groups _and_ users [03:51] zanthir, do they exists in /etc/passwd [03:53] demonspork, I don't have an /etc/passwd... [03:54] zanthir, then you are not usin Linux [03:54] "cat /etc/passwd" [03:55] twb: I think send it to a friend would still work. Having removed the relay I'm seeing the connection attempts time out e.g. "connect to gmail-smtp-in.l.google.com[74.125.155.27]:25: Connection timed out" for an email to my own gmail address [03:55] should give you a list of users [03:55] demonspork, I installed Ubuntu Server 10.04. I believe I am using Linux. [03:55] zanthir, then there is a 100% chance that the file "/etc/passwd" exists [03:56] You have an email? You can SSH in and look for yourself. Not there. Sorry... [03:56] demonspork: it is theoretically possible to have a working system that doesn't use "files" or "compat" for name resolution. [03:56] yeah, that is possible [03:57] but only theoretically [03:57] I didn't even bother mentioning it though [03:57] Indeed, when I try it about four packages fail their postinsts [03:57] Though those are bugs [03:57] zanthir, do you have a terminal window open? [03:57] type "cat /etc/passwd" [03:58] Certainly *UBUNTU* is required by specification to have a specific set of users and groups present in /etc/passwd and /etc/groups [03:58] or even just "stat /etc/passwd" [03:58] oh, taht last one worked! [03:58] zanthir: if /etc/passwd doesn't exist then your system is broken [03:59] So, it's probably just hidden? [03:59] zanthir: if you're using a GUI, I cannot comment on its behaviour. [04:00] cat says "No such file or dir..." but stat finds it... [04:00] That shouldn't happen. [04:00] err... sry, I cat-ed for /etc/group, not passwd... Sorry. [04:00] Right, ok. Cat finds everything. [04:01] For some reason though, they only show up as groups in my users and groups GUI... [04:02] Should I probably ignore that and just try adding them to groups as if they were users from the cmd line? [04:03] Mm. Ok. Thanks twb. [04:03] (about GUI) [04:15] Thank you too demonspork. [04:49] OK, so my server runs approx package caching, if I copy the contents of /var/cache/approx to another drive and then reinstall, will I be able to restore the cache by simply copying it back (along with the appropriate configuration)? [05:02] IIRC, yes [05:02] But I am emphatically NOT a fan of those apt cachers, they've caused me far more problems than they've solved. [05:03] Nowadays I simply run debmirror, which consumes on average maybe 128MB a week to keep a complete mirror of lucid and hardy. [05:06] squid-deb-proxy my friends [05:06] squid ftw [05:07] I've had problems with "optimized" squid cachers, too [05:07] booo [05:07] In particular, when they decide to cache Packages.bz2 (which is big) but not Release (which is small) [05:08] So you get checksum errors [05:08] dear friends i am try to create a name based virtual host in my local machine, but it is not working, [05:09] I add the following lines in the configuration file [05:09] [05:09] ServerName www1.example.com [05:09] ServerAlias kevin [05:09] DocumentRoot /test [05:09] [05:09] Options Indexes FollowSymLinks [05:09] AllowOverride None [05:09] Order allow,deny [05:09] Allow from all [05:09] !paste [05:09] [05:09] For posting multi-line texts into the channel, please use http://paste.ubuntu.com | To post !screenshots use http://tinyurl.com/imagebin | !pastebinit to paste directly from command line | Make sure you give us the URL for your paste - see also the channel topic. [05:09] [05:10] flock_: are you testing it with netcat? [05:10] i am using unutu 10.04 [05:11] and using apache2 [05:11] That was not my question. [05:11] I think I'll just reinstall from a disc [05:12] which no longer fits properly on a CD-R [05:12] (I have to use a DVD-R now) [05:13] I use squid [05:13] it's not perfect but it's effective when all my servers update at the same time [05:14] I blacklisted Packages.bz2 and Release and such from being cached [05:17] qman__: in theory, I just have my servers point to the local quaternary mirror [05:18] That hasn't actually happened yet because the debmirror is on a fucking 10baseT hub or something, so it's actually slower than the ISP's tertiary mirror... [05:21] I'm backing stuff up right now, what else should I back up besides /etc ? [05:21] (on my server) [05:21] I know definitely userdirs [05:21] what service are your providing from your server? [05:23] Samba shares (from folders on a separate drive mounted to /srv), Web serving (also from the separate drive mounted to /srv), PXE Ubuntu installation, approx package caching, DNS, DHCP, and printing services [05:25] and /srv are on their own drives [05:25] any custom scripts that you may have put in /usr/bin or /usr/sbin [05:25] any mysql databases [05:25] /dev/sdb1 is attached to /srv [05:25] I haven't made any scripts [05:26] and I did back up the MySQL DB [05:26] I decided just to copy /etc wholesale [05:26] yeah....any programs in /opt [05:27] that weren't installed from apt [05:27] nothing in /opt [05:27] that's probably good enough [05:27] then I would just be concerned with the /etc directory [05:28] hm, my backup drive is ntfs though :( [05:28] what are you using for back up software? [05:28] just cp -a [05:29] you may want to look at rsync [05:29] (to preserve the files as they are, but I just realized that ntfs won't save permissions [05:29] lot better solution in the long run [05:29] no it won't [05:29] I need to format the backup drive as ext3 or something [05:30] probably be the best way to go unless your zip or gun-zip the back-up first and then copy that to the ntfs partition [05:32] using ntfs is a bad idea anyway [05:32] so you could cp the entire etc directory into a backup directory and then gzip the directory and move it to your backup partition [05:32] the odds are one in a million, but you don't want it to be your partition that blows up [05:32] agreed [05:32] I'm setting the backup drive up with ext3 [05:33] qman__: an you think of any other important directories other than the obvious? [05:33] might want to take an ls of /var/cache/apt/archives, so you can look back at what packages were installed [05:34] or dpkg -l or whatever [05:34] I thought about that one [05:34] I'm just reinstalling only what this server needs [05:34] have a look through /var to see if there's anything in there you need and missed [05:35] and your home directories [05:35] RudyValencia: you said you were using Samba are you also using LDAP [05:35] everything else important would be in /etc [05:35] no, just workgroup mode [05:36] log files might also be good if you are worried about retention [05:37] nah, this is my private server in my residence [05:38] etc it is then [05:40] I guess just /etc, /var/lib/tftpboot, /var/cache/approx, and the MySQL dump [05:40] (and possibly /srv for good measure, just in case something goes horribly wrong_ [05:46] A backup should include all of /etc and /var, and if used /opt and /srv [05:56] ah [05:56] ok [05:57] will be backing up /etc and /var after /srv copies [06:01] If I were you, I'd backup the whole filesystem [06:05] I have a new working postfix install on a web server running a number of sites. The sites use forms that access sendmail via PHP (Joomla) and send emails to site staff etc. from the public. The PHP code changes the from email address so that the staff can reply directly to the person that sent them the mail if they choose to. Unfortunately, this results in the emails being put into the SPAM folder because "this message was likely forged and did not [06:06] have you tried whitelisting the From address? [06:07] No. [06:07] Is that something that has to be done on a per recipient basis? [06:07] yes and or per sender basis [06:08] Per sender would be impossible because they are members of the public filling in a form [06:08] are you using spamassasin? [06:08] I'll try the 'real' sender [06:08] No === _Techie_ is now known as _TechAway_ [06:08] so what program is picking it up as SPAM? [06:09] gmail [06:09] hmmmmm [06:09] is this a public facing server? [06:09] Yes. [06:10] Probably your MTA is misconfigured [06:10] Whitelisting the real sender does not help [06:10] e.g. it's HELO'ing with a hostname that doesn't resolve. [06:10] that was what I was going to ask next [06:10] twb: very possibly since I barely know what I am doing [06:10] yep [06:10] what MTA are you using [06:10] You mentioned sendmail. Do you mean /usr/sbin/sendmail, or sendmail-the-MTA? [06:10] You should be using postfix, not sendmail, as the MTA. [06:11] concur [06:11] the mta is postfix I just installed isn't it? [06:11] nope sure isn't [06:11] goto http://www.howtoforge.com [06:11] then the MTA is google gmail - its an online reader [06:11] paul_whipp: wrong. [06:12] so what is the MTA? [06:12] they have great tutorials on setting up postfix so that is secure and compiant [06:12] smtp.gmail.com operates and MTA, but it is not YOUR MTA. [06:12] his MTA is postfix, he mentioned it in his original question [06:12] MTA stands for Mail Transport Agent it is the program that sends and receives mail [06:13] Your MTA is a daemon running on your server. Its job is to 1) receive mail from local users and send it to local/remote receipients; and/or 2) to receive mail from remote recipients for local users. [06:13] Sorry - I'm filling in a form on a website that has my newly installed postfix sending the mail for it (via the sendmail php interface). When I receive the email as an end user via an online google gmail account it appears as spam. === _TechAway_ is now known as _Techie_ [06:13] My postfix is not receiving any email - it doesn't need to. [06:13] what is your server hostname? [06:14] gravity1187: tell him how to get the information, otherwise he'll give you the wrong datum [06:14] How do I check the hostname? I think I entered samfordwebsites.com. [06:14] paul_whipp: what does "cat /etc/mailname" return? [06:14] paul_whipp: pastebin the output of "postconf" [06:15] samfordwebsites.com.au (I was close ;)) [06:15] paul_whipp: pastebin the output of "ip addr" [06:16] pastebin... [06:16] !paste [06:16] For posting multi-line texts into the channel, please use http://paste.ubuntu.com | To post !screenshots use http://tinyurl.com/imagebin | !pastebinit to paste directly from command line | Make sure you give us the URL for your paste - see also the channel topic. [06:17] Ah - whitelisting 3 times in google seems to have worked for the gmail account (guess they are using a heuristic) [06:17] !paste [06:17] For posting multi-line texts into the channel, please use http://paste.ubuntu.com | To post !screenshots use http://tinyurl.com/imagebin | !pastebinit to paste directly from command line | Make sure you give us the URL for your paste - see also the channel topic. [06:18] paul_whipp: Part of the problem is your server is blacklisted http://mxtoolbox.com/SuperTool.aspx?action=blacklist%3a174.129.39.156 [06:18] you can use any pastebin you like, that's just one of them [06:18] http://paste.ubuntu.com/507784/ for postconf [06:19] http://paste.ubuntu.com/507785/ for ip addr [06:20] At least I have a workaround by whitelisting the sender. I can tell my various clients that they have to do this so that the messages don't end up in their spam folders. [06:21] what is the public addy of this server? [06:22] It does not have one. [06:22] gravity1187: look at the ip a result [06:22] I've always just used the IP [06:22] paul_whipp: that doesn't help. [06:22] Your network's mail gateway should have a public IP. [06:22] twb: I did not responding to ping and the domain ip is different [06:23] and that is probably y you got black listed [06:23] It should also have valid A and PTR and MX records and your /etc/maildomain should correspond to them. [06:24] I'm out of my depth here - Its just a machine in the cloud running a number of websites via apache. I DNS to the IP fine and everything (including ssmtp) worked fine. [06:25] I do own the samfordwebsites.com.au domain but its just one (not set up) site on the server that happens to be mine. [06:25] black listing seems strange since until now its only sent a few emails via my gmail account. [06:25] paul_whipp: that you know about [06:26] twb: fair point. I do look at the logs though. [06:26] It's entirely possible that your PHP crap is allowing anyone to send mails to anyone, i.e. it is an open relay [06:26] [06:27] Scary thought - Its Joomla (latest version) so quite popular. [06:27] I don't think that is possible though unless it can be hacked to change the recipient somehow. [06:28] Yeah, well. IME PHP hackers tend to excel at including that kind of feature in their code. [06:28] twb: possibly, but Joomla seems pretty sound and being Open I haven't seen any sign of issues. Most security problems come from people leaving the doors open with it. [06:29] "seems pretty sound" in what way? Suddenly you're a security analyst? [06:29] twb: No but I can read code and the mail part is pretty small. As for the rest I am dependent on the Joomla updates and feedback. [06:31] As ssmtp has never had any kind of related records (not sure how it could) might the blacklisting be more to do with the IP range - its an amazon elastic IP [06:32] Hmm, the latest relevant one I can see is [06:32] CVE-2008-4103 The mailto (aka com_mailto) component in Joomla! 1.5 before 1.5.7 sends e-mail messages without validating the URL, which allows remote attackers to transmit spam. [06:32] twb: The mailto (aka com_mailto) component in Joomla! 1.5 before 1.5.7 sends e-mail messages without validating the URL, which allows remote attackers to transmit spam. (http://cve.mitre.org/cgi-bin/cvename.cgi?name=CVE-2008-4103) [06:32] yes - I keep the updates going. 1.5.20 now. [06:32] Most of the other vulnerabilites are SQL injection or information disclosure [06:33] paul_whipp: you're using ssmtp as your MTA? [06:33] I was until now. [06:33] I only needed to send emails from the sites when user forms etc. are filled in. [06:33] Last time I looked, that did the Wrong Thing when you tried to point it at the real world. [06:34] Worked fine relaying through gmail. Its been running for a couple of years like that until now. Trouble was that with more client sites the recipients of the form emails would just click reply - sending an email back to me rather than to the user who filled in the form. [06:34] Particularly when on a NATted box where dnsdomain and maildomain and friends don't match up with the smarthost's view of the world [06:35] paul_whipp: that's what ssmtp is supposed to do [06:35] twb: look at private [06:36] sorry - private? [06:36] I sent a private message to twb [06:36] ok - I can't see that then. [06:37] nope sure can't [06:37] me and twb are having a sidebar [06:37] np [06:38] paul_whipp: what is the from address that you are using [06:39] I've been entering different ones on the forms - here is a form: http://174.129.39.156/~samford_state_school/index.php?option=com_contact&view=contact&id=1%3Apaul-whipp&catid=8%3Aadministration&Itemid=29 [06:41] That one sends emails to me (obviously) but they want to add lots more contacts on this and on one other Joomla site hosted on the same server. [06:41] if the messages you're sending aren't from a domain that points back to your mail server, they will get marked as spam [06:41] sooner or later [06:41] because that's how spammers work [06:42]