=== Ursinha is now known as Ursinha-afk === Ursinha-afk is now known as Ursinha === slangase` is now known as slangasek === jjohansen is now known as jj-afk === Destine is now known as ofaron === ubott2 is now known as ubottu === bilalakhtar_ is now known as bilalakhtar [21:00] #startmeeting [21:00] Meeting started at 15:00. The chair is nhandler. [21:00] Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE] [21:00] Who is here for the IRCC meeting? [21:00] o/ [21:00] o/ [21:00] o/ [21:00] o/ [21:00] we have quorum! [21:00] o/ (kinda) [21:01] [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/IRC/IrcCouncil/MeetingAgenda [21:01] LINK received: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/IRC/IrcCouncil/MeetingAgenda [21:01] [TOPIC] -offtopic 'support' discussion policy [21:01] New Topic: -offtopic 'support' discussion policy [21:01] Pici: You around? [21:02] -20:01:55- [freenode] ~s~ idle : 0 days 18 hours 42 mins 48 secs signon: Sun Oct 3 22:00:19 2010 [21:02] Yeah, I just noticed that Seeker` [21:02] Does anyone know enough about what he wanted to talk about for us to discuss this? [21:02] If not, we can hold off on this until the next meeting [21:02] not I [21:02] lets do that. [21:02] or reopen later in this one if he appears late [21:03] [AGREED] Defer discussion about -offtopic 'support' discussion policy until next meeting [21:03] AGREED received: Defer discussion about -offtopic 'support' discussion policy until next meeting [21:03] [TOPIC] All core channel ops should have +o in -ops [21:03] New Topic: All core channel ops should have +o in -ops [21:03] Seeker`: Care to introduce this topic? [21:03] ok [21:03] basically, as it stands, the people that have +o in -ops is pretty arbitrary [21:04] there isn't a good coverage of all timezones at present, I've had occasion myself to call !ops in -ops and the call has gone unanswered [21:04] leaving 2 or 3 ops sitting in -ops not being able to do anything about a troll sitting there taunting us [21:05] My view is that we need to get the core ops thing up and running, and then the core ops will be given +o in -ops. (as planned) [21:06] The way I see it, if someone is trusted enough to have +o in one or more core channels, they should be trusted enough to have +o in -ops. I understand that the rules in -ops are a bit different to core channels, so perhaps a delay between becoming +o in a core channel and -ops may be appropriate, until individuals understand howt he channel works better [21:06] -done- [21:07] personally, I'm more inclined to give people +o before we get the core ops thing sorted [21:07] it is, after all, the ops channel [21:07] question is, to who? (: [21:08] for the moment, I'm all for giving the operators in core channels +o [21:08] My biggest issue is that the channel has always been treated as an exception. ~ubuntu-core-irc-channels is a subteam of it on LP (which implies it is a core channel), but we've never really applied the OP application process to it [21:08] it should only take the modification of a template [21:09] isn't everybody in -ops an op in one or more core channels? [21:09] topyli: nope, for legacy reasons [21:09] topyli: not necessarily. Popey isn't [21:09] topyli: Besides freenode staff, they should be (including the core devel ops) [21:09] I think we give a few ops in the correct timzones +o, as per the need, recruit the same as any other channel [21:10] Seeker`: He is an #ubuntu-meeting op [21:10] tsimpson: who falls under legacy reasons? as I understood it, those people got asked not to idle a while back [21:10] nhandler: my mistake, he said he wasn't a core channels op earlier :P [21:11] rww_: ops become inactive or leave, but the access list is not updated [21:11] oh, okay, I misunderstood. thanks [21:11] jussi: any good reasons for only appointing a few people? [21:11] I really strongly think that in the meantime, before the core ops thing is implemented, we treat it like any other channel [21:11] jussi: I would be in favor of that. [21:11] I really hate exceptions ;) [21:12] i think this is a normal situation of a channel needing a few more ops [21:12] much like jussi said [21:12] jussi: surely it is more important to get the right people, rather than just giving it to people because they occupy the right timezone [21:12] Seeker`: Which is why interested people would apply and get chosen by the IRCC (just like people interested in being an #ubuntu op have to do) [21:13] We aren't just going to let some unqualified person be an OP (in any core channel) [21:13] Seeker`: timezone is one of the qualities that makes a person "right" [21:14] But not the only one ;) [21:14] certainly not :) [21:14] ok, so which time zones do we feel are lacking? [21:15] just checking :) jussi's statement implied that timezone is the deciding factor [21:15] err, mainly from about midnight to 9am UK time is when I've seen the most incidents [21:16] to be honest, I don't think there is a blank spot, it's hit and miss and luck of the draw [21:16] jussi, topyli, tsimpson: Are we basically in agreement that we will treat #ubuntu-ops like any other core channel in need of more OPs at least until we get the core-ops set up? [21:16] Im usually around on most days UK 7-9 [21:17] nhandler: as it is a core channel, yes [21:17] nhandler: i would agree [21:17] nhandler: make it a vote, but yes === Ursinha is now known as Ursinha-afk [21:17] jussi: Fine. Not much point in a vote when there is clear agreement, but for formalities sake... [21:17] I don't think we need to vote, it's listed as core anyway [21:17] ikonia: agreed. At the moment half of the -ops access list is inactive, and it is pretty much dependant on who is online when [21:17] ikonia: I don't really agree. This is the third time I think that timeslot's been mentioned as not having enough ops in the past year.. [21:17] ikonia: but out of all time periods, I think that is the worst [21:17] [VOTE] Treat #ubuntu-ops like other core channels in need of more OPs at least until core-ops are setup [21:17] Please vote on: Treat #ubuntu-ops like other core channels in need of more OPs at least until core-ops are setup. [21:17] Public votes can be registered by saying +1/-1/+0 in the channel, private votes by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0 to MootBot [21:17] E.g. /msg MootBot +1 #ubuntu-meeting [21:18] +1 [21:18] +1 received from topyli. 1 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 1 [21:18] +1 [21:18] +1 received from jussi. 2 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 2 [21:18] +1 [21:18] +1 received from tsimpson. 3 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 3 [21:18] rww_: sorry, I'm sure there are blank spots, but not ones that suffer over others [21:18] +1 [21:18] +1 received from nhandler. 4 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 4 [21:18] awesome [21:18] [ENDVOTE] [21:18] Final result is 4 for, 0 against. 0 abstained. Total: 4 [21:18] so, we start the process to assign new ops for TZs we need [21:18] also, let's recruit some ops there :) [21:18] [AGREED] Treat #ubuntu-ops like other core channels in need of more OPs at least until core-ops are setup [21:18] AGREED received: Treat #ubuntu-ops like other core channels in need of more OPs at least until core-ops are setup [21:19] tsimpson: What timezones should that be? midnight to 9am UK time ? [21:19] we should note when announcing, that it will (unlike other core channels) be restricted to core channel ops only [21:19] i wouldn't think it will be difficult to get ops for -ops, as we have very good op candidates on the channel :) [21:19] topyli: +1 [21:20] tsimpson: Agreed. As only core channel ops can be in there, other users would not be qualified [21:20] but yeah, that tz sounds about right tio me [21:20] [IDEA] Recruit OPs for midnight to 9am UK time [21:20] IDEA received: Recruit OPs for midnight to 9am UK time [21:20] nhandler: I think US and AU (maybe Asia) would fall into those times [21:20] What is UK time? UTC+1 ? [21:20] it's quite a large gap [21:21] currently +1, as it's summer-time [21:21] Well, the early portion of that range could definitely work for people in the US. But 9am UK would be pretty early for most people [21:21] well, apart from aus [21:21] 9am UK is good for Euro [21:22] generally i think we should take good care that someone always has access in -ops because that's where we forward our problems [21:22] its the euro early morning that is the most issue [21:22] well not our problems but you know, problems [21:22] Does someone want to volunteer to send out an email about this? If not, I think I could handle the action [21:23] nhandler: I think tsimpson is planning one about the core ops, but there needs to be one about the op recruitment [21:23] jussi: He sent that out earlier today [21:23] go ahead. we don't need to advertise this more publically since the email list should reach all eligible candidates [21:24] oh, havent looked at mail recently :D [21:24] [ACTION] nhandler to send out email about recruiting OPs for #ubuntu-ops [21:24] ACTION received: nhandler to send out email about recruiting OPs for #ubuntu-ops [21:24] [TOPIC] Any other business? [21:24] New Topic: Any other business? [21:25] Any idea when you're going to be asking for more #ubuntu operator applications? [21:25] do you think more are needed? [21:25] rww_: we were planning on it soon [21:25] we did have a discussion about it [21:26] who is this "we" you keep going on about? ;p [21:26] the voices in jussi's head [21:26] :) [21:26] Don't know if more are needed but I for one am +1 for rww being a #ubuntu op [21:26] tsimpson: people who werent absent for ages :P [21:26] also, perhaps we should quickly breach the topic of copying the access list of #u to #u+1? [21:27] oh, yes we should [21:27] [TOPIC] Copying access list of #ubuntu to #ubuntu+1 [21:27] New Topic: Copying access list of #ubuntu to #ubuntu+1 [21:27] tsimpson: yes, I think #ubuntu has a similar timezone coverage issue to -ops. The other day, I think the ops factoid got called two or three times before someone showed up, for example, and it's not an isolated thing. [21:27] jussi: Care to breifly summarize this for everyone else? [21:27] rww_: looks like it'll happen soon anyway [21:27] * rww_ nods [21:27] simply that we copy the access list across to +1 as there isnt much difference between them [21:28] and, imo, +1 is understaffed [21:28] yes, that too [21:28] agreed [21:28] it's a simple and good solution [21:29] i'm not sure if it's enough though, not all #u ops are automatically active in +1 [21:29] topyli: true, but we can then add more if needed. [21:29] topyli: true, but it can only help that [21:29] If we were to do this, would it be a one time copy? Or would we basically say "If you become a #u op you also become a +1 op"? [21:29] a few are, and we can send out a mail requesting people to idle there [21:29] +1 goes up/down in activity [21:30] nhandler: i would make it permanent [21:30] and it's normally quite a well behaved channel [21:30] they don't need to be especially active in there, just watch it [21:30] nhandler: I think the latter [21:30] and be able to respond to ops calls [21:30] and even if everybody doesn't join +1, it's still an improvement [21:30] as +1 is a support channel, it makes sense for #u ops to be ops there [21:30] I have no objections as long as we document this on the wiki somewhere [21:31] Shall we vote? [21:31] yes [21:31] basically that we unify and keep unified the #u and #u+1 lists [21:31] IMHO [21:32] jussi: Well, it isn't really unifying, as there will be some OPs in +1 that aren't in #u [21:32] But all #u ops will be ops in +1 [21:32] I suppose [21:32] [VOTE] Make being an #ubuntu operator also grant operator access in #ubuntu+1 [21:32] Please vote on: Make being an #ubuntu operator also grant operator access in #ubuntu+1. [21:32] Public votes can be registered by saying +1/-1/+0 in the channel, private votes by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0 to MootBot [21:32] E.g. /msg MootBot +1 #ubuntu-meeting [21:32] +1 [21:32] +1 received from topyli. 1 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 1 [21:32] until we (probably I) get the access list stuff sorted, we can live with keeping existing ops for +1 around [21:33] +1 [21:33] +1 received from tsimpson. 2 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 2 [21:33] +1 [21:33] +1 received from nhandler. 3 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 3 [21:33] +1 [21:33] +1 received from jussi. 4 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 4 [21:33] [ENDVOTE] [21:33] Final result is 4 for, 0 against. 0 abstained. Total: 4 [21:33] [AGREED] Make being an #ubuntu operator also grant operator access in #ubuntu+1 [21:33] AGREED received: Make being an #ubuntu operator also grant operator access in #ubuntu+1 [21:33] Would someone like to document this on the wiki, send out an email to the ML, and update the access lists? [21:33] tsimpson: +1 is not going to be very busy for a while now, so there is time to fix this [21:34] topyli: if you know python, you can help :) [21:34] * tsimpson starts begging [21:34] yes i've heard of python [21:35] We also need to update LP to reflect this [21:35] once you know python, you can corrupt that knowledge with supybot [21:35] tsimpson: Would you like this action? [21:36] where will we note it? [21:36] tsimpson: Maybe on the OP application page [21:36] ah, we already have a "Notes" section, it will fit well there [21:36] tsimpson: So are you fine with this action? [21:37] nhandler: ok, I'll do that [21:37] [ACTION] tsimpson to document change on the OP application wiki page, send email to ML, update access lists, and update teams on LP [21:37] ACTION received: tsimpson to document change on the OP application wiki page, send email to ML, update access lists, and update teams on LP [21:37] [TOPIC] Any more business? [21:37] New Topic: Any more business? [21:38] jussi, tsimpson, topyli: Anything else? [21:38] nothing from me [21:38] nope [21:40] In that case, any volunteers to do the post-meeting tasks? If not, I'll do them. [21:43] apparently not [21:44] [ACTION] nhandler to do post-meeting tasks [21:44] ACTION received: nhandler to do post-meeting tasks [21:44] Great meeting everyone [21:44] #endmeeting [21:44] Meeting finished at 15:44. [21:45] thanks guys === ian_brasil_ is now known as ian_brasil === yofel_ is now known as yofel === IdleOne is now known as MaverickOne