[00:00] <Seeker`> !ops | Chaos2358
[00:00] <ikonia> there is the attitude
[00:00] <ikonia> bye
[00:00] <Chaos2358> you dont own this place you were given too much authority
[00:00] <ikonia> @mark #ubuntu-ops Chaos2358 abusive again and bad attitude again (3rd time in the channel at least) don't unban
[00:00] <Chaos2358> its bogus
[00:01] <Seeker`> "you don't own this place"?
[00:01] <niko> need help ?
[00:01] <Chaos2358> a guy harrassed me to the point i flipped out and now i cant even get support for my system
[00:01] <ikonia> Chaos2358: you've flipped out multiple occasions in this channel
[00:01] <ikonia> I mearly stated the history of events
[00:01] <Chaos2358> it's like dealing with spitefull children here
[00:02] <tsimpson> Chaos2358: I suggest you come back when you're calm
[00:02] <ikonia> instead of apologising for your behaviour and assuring us it won't happen again, you chose to be smart mouthed, again
[00:02] <IdleOne> Chaos2358: you have a sense of entitlement that is based on some impression that we owe you something no matter how badly you act.
[00:02] <Seeker`> niko: Chaos2358 doesn't seem to get the point that he isn't getting unbanned right now, and that carrying on like this isn 't helping him
[00:02] <niko> Chaos2358: is here the place to discuss your behaviour in #ubuntu* channels
[00:02] <IdleOne> I agree with ikonia that your ban should not be lifted.
[00:02] <Chaos2358> i dont feel that you are anyone else owe me but i also feel that you dont own me
[00:02] <bazhang> artarfon is lauterino?
[00:02] <Seeker`> niko: coupled with becoming quite abusive towards ikonia
[00:03] <Chaos2358> he's being a prick i apologized for my actions and am constantlly being told come back later come back later i'm trying to get my laptops set up i dont want or need to wait six weeks to do it
[00:04] <Seeker`> Chaos2358: we don't own you. We do have a responsibilty to keep that #ubuntu namespace at least vaguely calm and civilised
[00:04] <ikonia> I think we're done here (genuinly)
[00:04] <IdleOne> yup
[00:04] <ikonia> Chaos2358: if you come back with a fresh approach, we'd be genuinly happy to review the ban and look at removing it
[00:04] <bazhang> looks like its lauterino/turboz ; same "MS employees language (ban evading as well)
[00:04] <ikonia> don't know those nicks
[00:05] <ikonia> Chaos2358: apologies if you missed my last message
[00:05] <ikonia> Chaos2358: if you come back with a fresh approach, we'd be genuinly happy to review the ban and look at removing it
[00:05] <Chaos2358> I tried discussing the ban but ikonia only wanted to say he wouldnt remove the ban
[00:05] <tsimpson> Chaos2358: unless you are willing to discuss the ban, calmly, then you should not be here
[00:05] <Chaos2358> i tried discussing calmly but was told it would not be lifted
[00:05] <Chaos2358> i'm calm now
[00:05] <bazhang> seemed to think it was okay to be completely offtopic if he was nice, lots of odd comments of 'too many MS employees' in the channel
[00:06] <Seeker`> Chaos2358: you may have been calm, but the attitude was that you had a right to be in #ubuntu, and that we were committing some offense by not removing the ban
[00:06] <Chaos2358> i just want to set up my system and it would be alot better if i could get a lil support
[00:07] <Chaos2358> no it isn't that i believe i have some un specified right it is that i lost my temper. i cooled off and saw my errors. i apologized. yet still nothing
[00:07] <ikonia> you didn't apologise
[00:07] <ikonia> you said you shouldn't have done it "but he deserved it"
[00:07] <Chaos2358> ikonia coldly saying no ban will be lifted
[00:07] <ikonia> Chaos2358: I'm recapping a little here
[00:07] <ikonia> Chaos2358: you've been rude in the ubuntu channelks
[00:07] <ikonia> you came in here and was rude
[00:07] <IdleOne> bazhang: can you talk to artarfon I need to go afk for a few
[00:08] <ikonia> you stormed out saying you didn't want to use ubuntu
[00:08] <ikonia> you came back
[00:08] <ikonia> you where rude again
[00:08] <bazhang> IdleOne, got a PM window open, no response yet
[00:08] <Chaos2358> no i came in her bluntlly and to the point
[00:08] <ikonia> you stormed out saying you where going back to ubuntu and didn't give a "shit" if the ban was ever lifted
[00:08] <bazhang> IdleOne, thanks for the quiet
[00:08] <ikonia> you came in a 3rd time that I'm aware of today
[00:08] <ikonia> and your attitude is the same
[00:08] <Chaos2358> like i said i'm reminded of preschool;
[00:08] <ikonia> because you behave like you are in preschool
[00:08] <Chaos2358> no i came in today asking if a ban could be lifted and was told  no without any questions
[00:09] <ikonia> Chaos2358: you where told no because of your atttidue
[00:09] <ikonia> attitude
[00:09] <Chaos2358> what attitude?
[00:09] <ikonia> the one you are showing now
 hello Chaos2358
 hello
 Chaos2358: a few
 few or us are active
[00:10] <Chaos2358>  how can we help ?
 yes
[00:10] <Seeker`> Chaos2358: if you were banned because of your attitude, the ban won't be lifted instantly the next day, you generally have to demonstrate you are able to keep your cool for 10 minutes
 i need to get my ban lifted in #ubuntu
[00:10] <ikonia> I started to discuss the ban with you and you said you didn't want to talk and needed it lifted now
 there you go, 3 already
[00:10] <Chaos2358>  you said you didn't need to use the channel
[00:10] <ikonia> Chaos2358: we have logs
[00:10] <Chaos2358>  oh it's you again
[00:10] <Chaos2358>  called us names and left
 No HOO RAH is not a name
 ]I know what it means
[00:10] <Chaos2358>  but your attitude towards the operators in this channel stinks
[00:10] <ikonia> we have logs
[00:10] <Chaos2358>  you've come back under a differnt nickname and repeated the same attitude
[00:10] <Chaos2358>  both occasions saying you didn't want access again, and where going back to windows
[00:10] <Seeker`> Chaos2358: which you have consistently not been able to do
 i'm not trying to sit here and talk for four hours i need my ban lifted
 it's not going to happen
 yea i reinstalled windows on my other drive but still like ubuntu
[00:10] <Chaos2358>  how can you deny me access to support for something
 you are denied due to your attitude - it's that simple
[00:10] <Chaos2358>  that's how it can be done
 ok so you arent going to lift my ban?
[00:10] <Chaos2358> because i talked for a half hour yesterday
[00:10] <ikonia> Chaos2358: stop
[00:10] <ikonia> Chaos2358: please don't flood the channels
[00:11] <ikonia> we have logs
[00:11] <Chaos2358> i talked till i was blue in the face i dont come here to conversate and make friends i come here when i have a problem i cant figure out on my own i ask for help and if i see a question i can answer while im here i do so then i leave
[00:11] <Chaos2358> sorry
[00:11] <ikonia> that's ok
[00:12] <ikonia> Chaos2358: you end up talking for hours because the people who control the ban are not convinced you're going to be able to use #ubuntu without being an issue again
[00:12] <ikonia> Chaos2358: that's part of the reason I started talking through the ban with you because of your previous attitude in the channel
[00:12] <ikonia> you can't just have a fit if you don't get the answer you want
[00:13] <ikonia> and on both occasions you have
[00:13] <ikonia> and you did a third time
[00:13] <ikonia> that's one of the reasons that suggests you'll not be able to control yourself in the #ubuntu channel again
[00:13] <ikonia> (the initial reason you got banned)
[00:13] <ikonia> do you see where we are coming from ?
[00:13] <Chaos2358> i came in before with a problem i had been having and researching for hours and was absolutelly frustrated with and i asked for help properly and was repeatedly flagged i flipped out no it wasnt right. i was provoked but still it was not the correct course of actions i learn from my mistakes
[00:14] <Chaos2358> yes i see where you are coming from
[00:14] <ikonia> ok, so seriously, have a think about how you present yourself, come back tommorow, and we'll review the ban (now that you can see the position from where we sit)
[00:15] <ikonia> I don't want to block you getting help, but at the same time, people don't deserve the risk of you flipping out as you have done recently
[00:15] <ikonia> the same way you called me names as you didn't get the answer you want
[00:15] <ikonia> you seem to flip out and start name calling / being rude easy,
[00:15] <Chaos2358> ok see the problem from where i sit if you will. i use this computer for work related purposes. i've been with out the programs i need for going on three days this is taking food off my table. another day isn't going to give me some magic relevation that i havent already had
[00:16] <ikonia> be nice if we could have some confidence in your behaviour
[00:16] <ikonia> Chaos2358: I fully understnad your issue
[00:16] <ikonia> Chaos2358: if you need comercial support, canonical has paid for comercial support
[00:16] <ikonia> Chaos2358: if you are using this for work usage, comercial coverage/support is a good thing to consider
[00:16] <tsimpson> see http://www.ubuntu.com/support/community for other sources of support
[00:17] <ikonia> plus, I don't believe you about ubuntu being a work tool
[00:17] <Chaos2358> it isn't commercial support  it is support of the standard ubuntu software
[00:17] <ikonia> as on both occasions you've said you where never using it again
[00:17] <Chaos2358> no ubuntu is not a work tool my computer is the work tool
[00:17] <ikonia> Chaos2358: comercial support means the professional business that creates ubuntu
[00:17] <Chaos2358> fine
[00:18] <Chaos2358> have a nice day
[00:18] <ikonia> Chaos2358: ok, so the ubuntu is not the problem, therefore it's not taking food of your table as your computer still works
[00:18] <ikonia> thanks
[00:18] <ikonia> you too
[00:18] <ikonia> for the record, I don't believe a word of that
[00:19] <Seeker`> ikonia: not surprised
[00:22] <niko> ikonia: anyway, good handling
[00:23] <ikonia> not really, wasn't very patient, but at the same time the last two events with him doesn't make me want to cut him a lot of slack
[00:24] <Seeker`> when is the next IRCC meeting?
[00:24] <Seeker`> It is moronic that more of us don't have +o in here
[00:24] <ikonia> 22nd I think from memory
[00:25] <ikonia> 23rd
[00:26] <ikonia> ubottu is having a bad lag
[00:26] <ikonia> oh, it's woke up
[00:26] <Seeker`> any idea what time on the 23rd?
[00:27] <ikonia> I'm working from memory, so don't quote me, it's normally 8:00utc
[00:27] <Seeker`> 0800 or 2000?
[00:28] <ikonia> 2000
[00:28] <Seeker`> hmm, may be able to make that
[00:29] <bazhang> thought it was every 7 days
[00:33] <IdleOne> bazhang: I tried talking to him in PM also but got no response
[00:33] <bazhang> IdleOne, me neither/too
[00:34] <IdleOne> oh well.
[00:35] <bazhang> your suggested banmask on nogo/gobo/etc'o works nicely thanks (now in +1 as supremo) IdleOne
[00:36] <IdleOne> until he breaks rules in that channel we can't do anything. besides I don't have access there
[00:37] <bazhang> no, not suggesting we ban him there, just a thanks for the suggested ban mask
[00:37] <IdleOne> sure thing
[01:50] <bazhang> heads up on 'serit'
[02:10] <serit_> hey whats with the ban?
[02:11] <serit> I was only here 5mins ago
[02:26] <IdleOne> added serit_!*@* to +e
[02:41] <elky> um...
[03:04] <rww> Hi. As a result of the +b gateway/web/* being changed to a +q (see the ubuntu-irc list), webchat users are now forwarded to #ubuntu-unregged if the channel's +r. The bot detects them as cloaked (which I guess they technically are) and identified (which they aren't necessarily), and thus doesn't ask them a security question, and thus they can't get into #ubuntu.
[03:05] <rww> I don't know whether double redirects actually work, but if they do, I recommend setting +b gateway/web/*$#ubuntu-proxy-users in #ubuntu-unregged.
[03:07] <rww> ... and I just actually read my status window *facepalm*
[03:07] <rww> Alrighty, the message from FloodBots is wrong, but apparently webchat users get an invite anyway, so... ignore that I guess.
[03:08]  * rww stops playing "incorrectly interpret the magic", goes back to annoying #ubuntu-offtopic
[04:21] <Chaos2358> anyone here
[04:22] <Chaos2358> ikoania or something like that is who i'm looking for in particular
[04:22] <Chaos2358> cant remember the exact name
[04:26] <Chaos2358> hello
[04:29] <Chaos2358> are there any ops at all?
[04:30] <maco> nobody here but us chickens
[04:30] <maco> ikonia is here though
[04:30] <maco> you should see it in your client's nick list
[04:31] <Chaos2358> i dont know what a clients nick list is
[04:31] <IdleOne> Chaos2358: How can we help you?
[04:32] <Chaos2358> I talked to you earlier didnt i?
[04:32] <IdleOne> I was here yes
[04:32] <Chaos2358> i'm still trying to get this ban lifted and since ikonia is who i was talking to earlier i'm not going to anyone else
[04:33] <IdleOne> Well I can tell you that the ban won't be lifted tonight.
[04:34] <Chaos2358> can i ask what the big deal is? i screwed up yea. i realize and accept this. i've apologized for it. but still no help
[04:34] <IdleOne> Chaos2358: the big deal is that your attitude is combative and aggressive, you are not inspiring any confidence in us.
[04:35] <IdleOne> I understand you are looking for help but our job as ops is to try an insure a positive atmosphere in #ubuntu
[04:35] <IdleOne> So, like I said the ban will not be lifted tonight.
[04:36] <Chaos2358> ok
[04:36] <elky> in the mean time there's ubuntuforums.org
[04:36] <Chaos2358> is it going to be like this everyday?
[04:36] <IdleOne> Chaos2358: as long as we feel you might be an issue, yes
[04:36] <elky> if you're combative and aggressive every day, then there's a chance.
[04:36] <Chaos2358> am i going to come in here and discuss the issue over and over again just to be told no?
[04:37] <Chaos2358> ok
[04:38] <Chaos2358> and just to clarify. the us government spent alot of time and effort to MAKE me combative and aggressive.
[04:38] <IdleOne> Chaos2358: this is war.
[04:38] <IdleOne> err
[04:38] <IdleOne> isn't
[04:39] <Chaos2358> I understand it isn't war but i'm just making a comment
[04:39] <elky> Chaos2358, then your government should be giving you assistance in readjusting to society and not treating everyone who disagrees as a combative agent. If this hasn't been provided for you then you should seek out your legal options with a lawyer.
[04:40] <IdleOne> I get what you are coming from but if every time someone says something you might not like and you go flying off the handle. We can't have that.
[04:41] <IdleOne> Anyway, politics is not the issue here.  I am trying to tell you how to handle this situation in the future, calmly with patience and understanding.
[04:42] <IdleOne> For tonight, the ban will stay.
[04:42] <Chaos2358> Haha you act like I shot a guy for cutting in front of me at a convienience store. the guy repeatedlly flagged me for no reason. thats not EVERY time. but okay good deal. it's all good. and for the record, I do not need to be "readjusted to society" i do perfectlly fine in "society" and to be perfectlly honest on an off topic issue people like you have people like me to thank for the "society" we have
[04:42] <Chaos2358> ok the ban stays i get it
[04:43] <maco> that might almost be true if elky were a us citizen ...
[04:43] <maco> or even resident
[04:43] <Chaos2358> touche
[04:43] <IdleOne> Chaos2358: Thank you for your service to your country. IRC is not the USA.
[04:44] <IdleOne> I hope you have a good night.
[04:44] <Chaos2358> you too
[04:45] <maco> elky: have you ever even visited the us before?
[04:45] <elky> maco, yes.
[04:46] <maco> oh so you know what you're in for on the next uds flight @_@
[04:46] <elky> By my recollections, it's much more fun getting back in to .au.
[04:48] <elky> I believe there was a zero tolerance on liquids-or-gels as I was flying out of the US last time. I had to throw out some fantastic lip gloss.
[04:59] <maco> was that 2006?
[05:31] <bazhang> was that 24hrs?
[05:31] <bazhang> am in a time warp!!!
[05:38] <rww> GuKK_devel could do with a banforward from #ubuntu to the fix-your-connection channel
[05:40] <nhandler> rww: Done
[05:40] <rww> nhandler: I think it might have fixed itself right before you did that, actually :(
[05:41]  * rww mutters things about computers playing mind games
[05:42] <nhandler> rww: We'll see. If it is fixed, he won't get forwarded and I'll remove it
[05:42] <rww> okays. Thanks :)
[06:40] <bazhang> weird. I got highlighted in +1, but have no access there
[06:40] <IdleOne> yeah same here
[06:41] <bazhang> he seems to have reined himself in , for the moment at least
[07:24] <wgrant> Has anyone talked to -release about the announcement?
[07:24] <wgrant> We have a new RM.
[08:29] <jussi> wgrant: Ive been in contact with robbiew
[08:29] <jussi> and skaet
[08:29] <jussi> but as its robbbies responsibility he will deal with it :)
[08:30] <wgrant> OK, great.
[08:31]  * elky watches #f and debates about grabbing some popcorn.
[11:54] <Monkey_Dust> hi, the Dutch channel #ubuntu-nl could use some technical bots, what to do to this end?
[11:55] <bazhang> Monkey_Dust, mind asking in #ubuntu-irc ? I think jpds may handle that
[11:55] <Monkey_Dust> awe rite
[12:48] <ikonia> whoa
[13:21] <bazhang> bihari attempting to get another cloak
[14:17] <ikonia> the_j0k3r = bihari in #ubuntu ban dodging again
[14:18] <bazhang> surprised he still has a cloak
[14:19] <ikonia> he had dropped his cloak to get around the ban
[14:19] <ikonia> done one on ident + partial ip
[15:26] <switchgirl> mahen23 is starting to offend people
[15:26] <switchgirl> in #ubuntu-offtopic
[15:26] <ikonia> it's been delt with
[15:26] <ikonia> thank you
[15:37] <ikonia> vipul again dodging
[15:38] <ikonia> vipual = bihari
[15:38] <ikonia> now claiming I'm exploiting him
[15:52] <jrib> I love that he pinged himself...
[15:54] <ikonia> idiot
[16:00] <ne0\penguin> hi i want resume of network engineer
[16:01] <ikonia> jungli, please leave
[16:01] <ne0\penguin> hey i realy want it
[16:01] <ne0\penguin> pllz any sample ?
[16:02] <ikonia> jungli, enough, please leave
[16:02] <ikonia> jungli, enough, you know this channel is nothing to do with network engineers
[16:02] <ne0\penguin> ok
[16:19] <Tm_T> ikonia: how suitable kick message
[16:19] <ikonia> I did think that
[16:20] <ikonia> oops
[18:09] <Chaos2358> ikonia??
[18:10] <Chaos2358> anyone in here?
[18:10] <Tm_T> hi Chaos2358, how can we help you?
[18:10] <Chaos2358> looking for ikonia
[18:11] <Tm_T> he seems to be inactive now over an hour
[18:11] <Chaos2358> i'm trying to get a ban lifted and ikonia is who i've been talking to for the last three days
[18:24] <Chaos2358> ikonia? you still afk?
[18:25] <Chaos2358> okay can any of the ops help me?
[18:50] <Seeker`> Chaos2358: you'll have to wait for ikonia
[18:50] <Seeker`> it seems you couldn't manage to come back a day later, and came back about 3 hours after you talked to ikonia again
[18:55] <Seeker`> Chaos2358: you got wound up *again* because you were told you weren't getting unbanned just now. Every time you do that, it means it will take longer for you to get back in to the channel. You need to demonstrate that you can actually follow the rules and not throw your toys out of the pram when you are told no 3 hours after you were told to "come back tomorrow"
[18:55] <Chaos2358> what are you talking about?
[18:55] <Chaos2358> i came back looking for ikonia
[18:56] <Chaos2358> i'm here waiting for ikonia i'm not going to let you draw into an arguement
[18:56] <Seeker`> -23:14:28- :ikonia+: ok, so seriously, have a think about how you present yourself, come back tommorow, and we'll review the ban (now that you can see the position from where we sit)
[18:56] <Seeker`> -03:21:23- ~s~ Chaos2358 (Mike Ellis) > (~mike@216.228.107.229) has joined #ubuntu-ops
[18:56] <Seeker`> -03:21:39- :Chaos2358 : anyone here
[18:56] <Seeker`> sorry, 4 hours later
[18:57] <Chaos2358> i dont need a transcript buddy
[18:57] <Chaos2358> i'm here waiting to speak with ikonia
[18:57] <popey> 18:25:49 < Chaos2358> okay can any of the ops help me?
[18:57] <Seeker`> my point is that you were told to come back tomorrow, and you couldn't even manage that
[18:57]  * popey points Chaos2358 to Seeker` 
[18:58] <Seeker`> you came back 4 hours later, and asked to be unbanned then
[18:58] <Chaos2358> yep good point youre right but i'm here waiting for ikonia
[18:58] <Chaos2358> have a wonerfuyl day thank you
[18:59] <Chaos2358> wonderful^
[19:00] <Seeker`> Chaos2358: please don't idle in here
[19:01] <jussi> Chaos2358: what do you need ikonia for?
[19:01] <Chaos2358> sure, no problem thank you
[19:01] <Seeker`> he is an ongoing troll
[19:01] <Seeker`> snapped at someone in #ubuntu for flagging what he was saying as offtopic I think
[19:01] <Seeker`> got banned from #u
[19:02] <Seeker`> has been back in here pretty much every 3-12 hours since demanding to be unbanned, being told "not yet", then exploding again
[19:02] <Seeker`> and quitting
[19:02] <Seeker`> then coming back, saying "I've calmed down" only to explode again when being told "not just yet"
[19:02] <Seeker`> repeat ad nauseum
[19:03] <jussi> heh
[19:03] <Seeker`> ikonia said to him last night to come back tomorrow
[19:03] <jussi> oh crud, we have meeting tonight
[19:03] <Seeker`> he came back 3 hours later
[19:03] <jussi> I should send an email reminder
[19:03] <Seeker`> what meeting?
[19:03] <jussi> ircc
[19:03] <Seeker`> when?
[19:03] <jussi> ~1 hour...
[19:03] <jussi> iirc
[19:03] <jussi> @now utc
[19:04] <jussi> 2 hours I think
[19:04] <Seeker`> can I ask that an issue be raised? Not sure if i@ll be able to be there
[19:04] <jussi> Seeker`: put it on the agenda
[19:04] <jussi> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/IRC/IrcCouncil/MeetingAgenda
[19:05] <tsimpson> if you can't be there, you can but more detail on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/IRC/IrcCouncil/IRCteamproposal
[19:05] <Seeker`> its a simple proposal
[19:05] <Seeker`> core channel ops get +o access in here
[19:05]  * tsimpson is assuming we'll have a quorum
[19:06] <tsimpson> and there is one issue with that, we have yet to define what a "core op" is exactly
[19:06] <tsimpson> unless you mean "operators in at least one core channel"
[19:06] <Seeker`> well, I though that was people with +v in her
[19:06] <Seeker`> *here
[19:07] <popey> not quite
[19:07] <tsimpson> "core ops" != "operators in core channels"
[19:07] <popey> I am +v and I'm not an op in any core channels
[19:07] <popey> not op in any useful channels AFAIAA
[19:07] <Seeker`> popey: yus, but you're speshul
[19:07] <Seeker`> :P
[19:07] <popey> heh
[19:08] <tsimpson> as you're here now, I'll say this now. there is only one issue I see with giving people +o in here, and that's the potential for abuse of it
[19:08] <tsimpson> which is why few people (now) have +o here
[19:08] <Seeker`> if someone is trusted enough to have +o in a core channel, they should be trusted enough to have it in here
[19:09] <jussi> the idea was core ops would get +o here as I remember. but we got to get the core ops sorted first
[19:09] <Seeker`> if you can't trust them not to abuse it in here, how can you trust them not to abuse it in core channels?
[19:09] <tsimpson> I mean both "play" abuse, ie ops kicking each other for giggles, and abuse when someone is requesting ban removal
[19:09] <Seeker`> tsimpson: I refer you to my previous statement
[19:10] <tsimpson> because the core channels have clearly defined rules/procedures as to what is a kick-able offence
[19:10] <tsimpson> -ops does not really have that
[19:10] <Tm_T> and shouldn't have, unless it's "has to be considered case to case" or similar
[19:10] <tsimpson> but, it's just a concern, I do agree that we need more +o in here
[19:11] <jussi> I dont, I think its fairly rare we have times when someone with +o is needed and no one around
[19:12] <Seeker`> it has happened
[19:12] <Seeker`> I've seen it myself
[19:12] <tsimpson> it's not as rare as it should be
[19:12] <tsimpson> quite a few of the +o in here are in europe-ish time zones
[19:13] <tsimpson> or at least the more active +o's
[19:13] <Seeker`> added some extra stuff to that other page
[19:14] <tsimpson> jussi: I think the real question is not "why should we add more +o", but "why should not core ops have +o in -ops"
[19:14] <jussi> I suppose we could do with some more, but I still dont advocate giving everyone +o.
[19:14] <tsimpson> this is "their" channel after all
[19:14] <Tm_T> I'm against giving "everyone" +o
[19:14] <jussi> I think "core ops" should have +o, but we need to define a way for core ops to be defined
[19:15] <Tm_T> that
[19:15] <tsimpson> jussi: define a way to define? :p
[19:15] <jussi> lol
[19:15] <jussi> you know what I meant
[19:15] <topyli> would be progress!
[19:16] <tsimpson> !countdown-#ubuntu-release-party is <reply> there is no countdown, now stop asking!
[19:16] <jussi> nice!
[19:17] <Seeker`> jussi: an op in a core channel? an op in a core channel that has been an op for at least X?
[19:17] <Chaos2358> is ikonia in here?
[19:17] <jussi> no
[19:17] <Seeker`> Chaos2358: /whois ikonia ikonia
[19:18] <tsimpson> Seeker`: a "core op" is supposed to be an operator who is granted +o in all core channels
[19:18] <Chaos2358> seeker thank you
[19:18] <Seeker`> tsimpson: how many of those are there currently?
[19:18] <tsimpson> 0, as we have yet to define how someone should be selected for core
[19:19] <tsimpson> technically, the IRCC would be core, but only because of the shared IRCC account
[19:20] <tsimpson> what we need, is some criteria for selecting a core op
[19:20] <Seeker`> well, that would suggest that at the moment only the IRCC should be able to +o in here, based on the shared account, which is clearly wrong
[19:20] <tsimpson> we already have "must already be an operator in at least one core channel"
[19:20] <jussi> Seeker`: we have left the people who had +o in here with it, as it makes no sense to take them away
[19:21] <tsimpson> Seeker`: that's why we can't say "core ops" should have +o, there aren't any atm
[19:21] <Seeker`> do half of the people with +o in here still even exist?
[19:22] <tsimpson> our access lists are a mess
[19:23] <jussi> we desparately need a more sane way of handling them
[19:23] <Seeker`> actively looking at them more than never would probably be a start :P
[19:24] <jussi> Seeker`: we have looked at them ;)
[19:24] <jussi> just we run screaming away :P
[19:25] <tsimpson> pruning the access lists, for just the core channels, would be an insanely laborious process and drive any sane person insane
[19:25] <tsimpson> and we have no sane people to spare
[19:26] <Seeker`> so if you start with an insane person you don't have to worry about them going insane :P
[19:27] <tsimpson> it'd make them super-insane, and they'd probably try to takeover the world or something :)
[19:27] <jussi> no, we are sane, but we cant spare one of us to be sacrificed :P
[19:27] <jussi> tsimpson: wait! Im doing that already!
[19:27] <Seeker`> not adding more +o to here because there isn't a definition of a core op, and then not moving towards actually defining a core op is a bit silly
[19:27] <jussi> Seeker`: we are moving towards it, its on the list of things for UDS
[19:27] <tsimpson> Seeker`: that's not what I'm saying, I'm saying that we can't just add "core ops"
[19:28] <Seeker`> why UDS?
[19:28] <tsimpson> we can still find another criteria to add some +o
[19:28] <jussi> and I do beleive tsimpson is working on an email for the irc list
[19:29] <switchgirl> mahen23 keeps pm'ing me asking for a hug
[19:29] <Seeker`> have you asked him not yo?
[19:29] <switchgirl> they and i share #ubuntu-offtopic
[19:29] <switchgirl> yes publiclly
[19:30] <jussi> switchgirl: Ill have a word.
[19:30] <jussi> switchgirl: when was the last time?
[19:30] <switchgirl> (19:27:29) mahen23: gimme a hug
[19:30] <switchgirl> (19:28:32) mahen23: i need a hug
[19:30] <switchgirl> i'm on gmt+1
[19:30] <jussi> like 5 mins ago?
[19:31] <switchgirl> yes
[19:31] <jussi> Ill have a word
[19:31] <Seeker`> jussi: why uds?
[19:31] <switchgirl> tak jussi
[19:33] <jussi> switchgirl: he has agreed to stop.
[19:34] <switchgirl> Tak
[19:34] <jussi> Im getting the "brother" excuse
[19:35] <jussi> Seeker`: because both Pici and I will be there and a lot of other people will participate
[19:35] <Seeker`> kinda precludes people that can't get a week off work from participating
[19:37] <jussi> Seeker`: Things get talked about at UDS, this doesnt preclude using other forms of messaging to gather additional opinions - as I mentioned, tsimpson is composing a mail for the list
[19:37] <Seeker`> I listend to a stream from UDS ont ime, and the people saying stuff on IRC were essentially ignored
[19:37] <Seeker`> because people can just talk over the top of them
[19:38] <jussi> Seeker`: I dont know how long ago that was, but last time we worked very hard to make sure they were not
[19:39] <Seeker`> just seems that waiting for a face to face meeting to do stuff about running irc is a bit, well, wrong
[19:40] <tsimpson> Seeker`: the good thing about a meeting for IRC issues, IRC is not ignored :)
[19:41] <tsimpson> and I'll be in the IRC channel anyway, and god help jussi if he ignores me :p
[19:42] <jussi> tsimpson: hehe
[19:43] <Seeker`> tsimpson: it may not be ignored, but it certainly makes it more difficult for the people that aren't there to get their point across
[19:43] <tsimpson> it worked out fine last time, jussi was at UDS and I was in the IRC channel
[19:43] <tsimpson> other than a bit of lag with the audio/irc, we managed to communicate properly
[19:44] <Seeker`> it also required people to be able to listen to the stream
[19:45] <Seeker`> if the meeting happens during UK work hours, I can just about manage to get on irc from my phone
[19:45] <Seeker`> I wouldn't be able to listen to an audio stream though
[19:55] <Tm_T> Seeker`: typically discussions begins before UDS session and continues after it in some common place, like ML
[20:23]  * tsimpson points everyone to the IRC ML
[20:28] <IdleOne> So a Core op would have +o in here, there is no process in place at the moment for who is/isn't a core op but that doesn't solve the issue of this channel needs more people with +o.
[20:29]  * IdleOne needs coffee
[20:34] <ikonia> I thought there was supposed to be an IRCC meeting today ?
[20:34] <tsimpson> in ~25 mins
[20:34] <ikonia> oh good
[20:35] <ikonia> got my time zones mixed up
[20:35] <tsimpson> I had to double check a while ago too
[20:37] <ikonia> I actually thought the next meeting was the 23rd anyway until jussi said
[20:42] <tsimpson> second Saturday of each month at 20:00 UTC and on the last Sunday of each month at 18:00 UTC
[21:03] <Chaos2358> ikonia
[21:03] <ikonia> yes ?
[21:03] <Chaos2358> whats going on?
[21:03] <ikonia> nothing,
[21:04] <Chaos2358> think i can get my ban lifted today?
[21:04] <ikonia> Chaos2358: I'll try to make this short and simple to not wind you up
[21:04] <ikonia> Chaos2358: I asked you to come back in 24 hours, and you've not done that as Seeker` pointed out
[21:04] <Chaos2358> look man work with me here
[21:04] <ikonia> I explained that you need to show you can fit in and follow/accept the rules
[21:05] <ikonia> Chaos2358: no, I won't work with you on this, I gave you a simple instruction.
[21:05] <Chaos2358> ok thank you
[21:05] <ikonia> no problem
[21:05] <ikonia> you're welcome to come back in another 24 hours and we'll look at it then
[21:05] <Chaos2358> actually are you ever going to lift the ban or am i just coming here for operator amusement?
[21:06] <ikonia> no
[21:06] <ikonia> and you're not following it
[21:06] <ikonia> I'm giving you clear instructions on how to resolve it
[21:06] <ikonia> what do you expect me to do when I've said you need to show we can trust you to behave, and you then don't follow the instructions
[21:07] <ikonia> Seeker` gave you advice earlier and you dismissed it and kept coming back
[21:07] <Chaos2358> fine, sure, ok, i'll be back tomorrow for my next dose of op thank you and have a good day
[21:07] <ikonia> you too
[21:07] <ikonia> @mark #ubuntu-ops Chaos2358 again told to come back in 24 hours to show he can follow instructions. More clam but still pushy
[21:12] <Chaos2358> how do i register a nickname i cant get into ##linux without it
[21:13] <tsimpson> for network support, ask in #freenode
[21:14] <ikonia> of course he's not going to go there
[21:15] <tsimpson> he is now
[21:16] <ikonia> I stand corrected
[22:56] <IdleOne> looks like Serialk is using some sort of router hack to disconnect users
[22:56] <IdleOne> in #u
[22:57] <ikonia> lets see
[22:57] <IdleOne> he just did it again. banned
[22:58] <IdleOne> asked him to join here
[22:58] <ikonia> me too
[22:58] <IdleOne> seems ï·’ is what causes the disconnect
[22:58] <ikonia> hopefully he will and it will just be a UTC thing (fingers crossed)
[22:58] <niko> hum
[22:58] <niko> i know him
[22:59] <ikonia> ahh niko the voice of experience
[22:59] <Seeker`> good know or bad?
[23:00] <niko> Seeker`: if i know him, that's not in good know :)
[23:00] <IdleOne> niko: you want to handle this?
[23:00] <IdleOne> hmm
[23:00] <niko> IdleOne: if he joins again yes
[23:00] <IdleOne> guess you scared him
[23:02] <IdleOne> well he is banned until he decides to come back here and discuss
[23:02]  * niko nods
[23:03] <Seeker`> know ordiclic?
[23:04] <niko> no
[23:21] <Seeker`> eugh, its started in earnest
[23:21] <ikonia> ?
[23:22] <Seeker`> the "is it out yet" every 0.5 seconds in every channel ever
[23:22] <nhandler> ikonia: -release-party
[23:22] <ikonia> as long as it's not release party and not #ubuntu
[23:27] <ikonia> why do people feel it's fun to misslead people
[23:27] <bazhang> its an insane channel, hence the insanity
[23:27] <ikonia> it shouldn't be
[23:27] <ikonia> I don't find giving miss-leading information funny
[23:27] <bazhang> it shouldn't exist then
[23:28] <ikonia> not when people are genuninly keen and excited
[23:28]  * nhandler is waiting for the rick roll links to start showing up
[23:28] <bazhang> the sane ones go to -release-announce
[23:28] <ikonia> if that starts, I'll mute the channel
[23:28] <ikonia> it's not funny
[23:32] <bazhang> I hope the sane channel is +m
[23:35] <ikonia> it's just sane
[23:35] <MaverickOne> bazhang: it is
[23:40] <bazhang> so artarfon is lauterino
[23:42] <Seeker`> that a problem?
[23:43] <bazhang> he was an issue before; seemed to think being egregiously offtopic was fine, as long as he was friendly