[09:00] <pitti> YokoZar: dropping older wine1.2 upload, since the patch also seems to be present in the newer one
[09:01] <pitti> doko__: rejecting libapache2-mod-python, it doesn't have a bug reference
[09:45] <sabdfl> hello hello
[09:46] <wgrant> Morning.
[09:46] <pitti> hey sabdfl
[09:46]  * pitti pats the Meerkat
[09:47] <ion> o hai
[09:49] <sabdfl> he
[09:49] <sabdfl> magic maverick turned out nicely
[09:51] <pitti> sabdfl: magic maverick?
[09:51] <pitti> OMG!
[09:51] <pitti> we are doing the wrong release!
[09:51] <sabdfl> :)
[09:51] <pitti> "Mark Shuttleworth stops the 10.10 presses due to major misunderstanding"
[09:52] <sabdfl> file it under "Headlines we do not want"
[11:16] <Riddell> someone may want to update the topic :)
[11:16] <Riddell> congratulations all the sleepy ubuntu devs
[11:16] <pitti> skaet: may you have the honor?
[11:18] <pitti> what did you change?
[11:19] <ogra_ac> heh
[11:19] <fagan> pitti: you have a meerkat I got to get the plane to germany so I can see it :)
[11:19] <yofel> pitti: about apports --save - it only fails if you use --save=~/... and expanduser shouldn't mess with the path if home is already expanded
[11:19] <pitti> yofel: aah, good point
[11:20] <pitti> yofel: can you please follow up to the bug with that, for the record? I'm about to go offline now
[11:21] <yofel> sure, I'll change it back to triaged then too
[11:22] <persia> So, when does natty open?
[11:27] <fagan> persia: I thought it was open a few days ago
[11:27] <nigelb> no, it takes a few days
[11:27] <wgrant> It can't be initialised until after release.
[11:27] <wgrant> ... and after we sacrifice some goats to Soyuz.
[11:28] <persia> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/natty/+queue doesn't seem to show it open (and it is usually initialised frozen for toolchain folks)
[11:28] <persia> wgrant, Haven't you managed to downgrade the sacrifices to chickens yet?
[11:28] <nigelb> wgrant: ah, at least you got it down from the bulls.
[11:29] <fagan> and the whales before that
[11:29] <persia> But it's been goats for at least since karmic.
[11:29] <persia> (unless cprov was issuing forward looking statements at the time)
[11:32] <wgrant> fagan: Maybe we should try whales again this time. They are more relevant to the release.
[11:32] <fagan> hah
[11:33] <fagan> and the gods would find them more pleasing since they are bigger
[11:33] <nigelb> LOL
[11:33] <nigelb> unicorns?
[11:34] <fagan> nigelb: if you can find them and feed them to the whales the gods would be very pleased
[11:35] <nigelb> fagan: at the risk of all the little girls cursing me.
[11:35] <fagan> hehe it would be worth it
[11:36] <persia> The larger-creatures-developed-by-several-subcreatures-eating-each-other hypothesis has been deprecated for a couple millenia now: let's not revive it.
[11:37] <nigelb> Heh.
[11:37] <nigelb> oh, sabdfl tweeted.  It is indeed an auspicious day :p
[11:37] <nigelb> and stack exchnage looks gorgeous today
[11:38] <fagan> nigelb: yeah I was supprised too
[11:38] <fagan> about sabdfl tweeting
[11:38] <fagan> and yeah the stackexchange looks great
[11:38] <sabdfl> stack exchange looks fantastic
[11:39] <fagan> it would be nice now to have answers.launchpad.net/ubuntu to redirect to there
[11:40] <nigelb> lol
[11:41] <nigelb> haha, this rocks: http://design.canonical.com/wp-content/themes/canonical-design/42day/
[11:41] <nigelb> design team ftw
[11:42] <fagan> that banner on there is awesome
[11:44] <nigelb> whoa => < rickspencer3> elmo just opened Natty :)
[11:46] <nigelb> persia, fagan, and wgrant ^^
[11:46] <wgrant> Well, FSVO opened.
[11:46] <wgrant> It exists.
[11:46] <nigelb> looks like they had the goats ready
[11:46] <wgrant> But none of the Soyuz sacrifice is done yet.
[11:46] <nigelb> Ah
[11:46] <fagan> someone must have found a cat
[11:47] <persia> a cat just isn't sufficient
[11:47] <fagan> cats are magical creatures they are worth 2 goats
[12:07] <highvoltage> when does natty open!? it feels weird and uncomfortable being on a stable release!!!
[12:07] <persia> highvoltage, Next week, likely.
[12:07] <Riddell> 11:35 < rickspencer3> elmo just opened Natty :)
[12:07] <nigelb> highvoltage: when we offer a few sacrificial goats to soyez; see discussion above :)
[12:08] <Riddell> but presumably we should wait for the toolchain first
[12:09] <fagan> highvoltage: I agree being on a stable release is annoying /me quickly installs debian unstable
[12:09] <persia> We can dist-upgrade whilst waiting for the toolchain, just can't upload anything.  Mind you, this may result in a need to reinstall, but ...
[12:09] <fagan> (kidding)
[12:09] <highvoltage> Riddell: :)
[12:13] <nigelb> \p/ spiffy new fridge http://ubuntu-news.org/
[12:14] <persia> nigelb, So, for folks subscribed to the RSS feed, are you doing something nifty to inform the readers of the new feed subscription?
[12:16] <nigelb> persia: I think there will be an announcement on the old feed (fi there isn't one already)
[12:17] <nigelb> persia: there is one already: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/node/2141
[12:18] <fagan> all we need is a new planet.ubuntu.com and we have the set of updated sites
[12:18] <persia> nigelb, Sure, but no automation to help clients resubscribe.  One has to open a browser, investigate the website, select the new feed, etc.
[12:21] <persia> highvoltage, "flavours" :p
[12:25] <highvoltage> persia: I'm just being consistant with how it's being called everywhere else atm :)
[12:26] <persia> Where else?  Who else do I have to complain at?
[12:26]  * persia sees a *huge* difference between flavours, participating as part of Ubuntu, and derivatives, who use the results of a release to build something else.
[12:26] <highvoltage> persia: http://www.ubuntu.com/project/derivatives
[12:27] <persia> Ugh.  That wasn't there before.
[12:27] <highvoltage> persia: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DerivativeTeam/Derivatives
[12:27]  * persia files yet another website bug
[12:27] <persia> That one is hard to change for annoying historical reasons, sadly
[12:30] <highvoltage> persia: the top results for searching ubuntu flavours results in pages that refer to what you would call derivatives as flavours:
[12:30] <highvoltage> http://www.lczajkowski.com/2010/01/23/new-flavours-of-ubuntu-being-developed-in-ireland/
[12:30] <highvoltage> http://ubuntulinuxhelp.com/ubuntu-based-linux-32-flavours-and-then-some/
[12:31] <highvoltage> persia: It would be nice to have it defined properly somewhere and have that definition updated everywhere so that there could be better consensus and better use of these terms
[12:33] <persia> highvoltage, I know.  I've been hunting for slibs cogent distinction between "remix" and "flavour" for a while, and can't find it (which annoys me).  I fear that page may have been a victim of the "Ubuntu Netbook Remix" nomenclature discussions, and then the wiki history was lost in a site update.
[12:33] <persia> The nice guide to when one had to use "remix" to be within the trademark guidelines has also gone missing (and finding good language for these is currently blocking me from some tasks).
[12:34] <persia> But I think there is a vast difference in each class of Flavour (e.g. Edubuntu), Remix (e.g. Ubuntu Japanese Remix), and Derivative (e.g. gNewSense)
[12:35] <highvoltage> persia: *nod*
[12:36] <persia> Anyway, thanks for being the target of my rant about this :)  Please help rant at folk in the future to preserve the useful semantic distinctions, and maintain our reputation for quality for all flavours.
[12:49] <highvoltage> persia: will do
[12:49] <persia> Thanks :)
[13:28] <real_ate> hi all... I'm having a bit of trouble working out to build someting I get from apt-get source
[13:28] <real_ate> I want to find the right way, so I can build a package and install it instead of just using make install
[13:29] <persia> real_ate, You're looking to fix a bug in Ubuntu, or package something separately?
[13:29] <real_ate> persia: fix a bug
[13:29] <persia> Excellent.  Just wanted to make sure we'd be on-topic :)
[13:29] <real_ate> cool cool
[13:30] <real_ate> I know there was some command to run in the same folder as you run apt-get source... i did it before but I can't remember
[13:30] <real_ate> It packaged up the deb and applied any patches if there were any
[13:31] <persia> Maybe `debuild -S -us -uc -i -I`?
[13:31] <real_ate> ooo... that sounds familliar!
[13:31]  * real_ate goes googling
[13:31] <persia> That should convert an unpacked source, post modification, into a new source package.
[13:32] <persia> It's a good idea to make sure you've used `dch -i` to get a new changelog entry, so you can be sure you end up with the right newer version when you make the new source.
[13:33] <real_ate> hmm interesting... these are all part of the devscripts package then?
[13:33]  * real_ate is not used to working like this
[13:33] <persia> I think so.
[13:33] <persia> Yep.
[13:34] <persia> Now, to convert the now updated source package with the patch to fix the bug into a binary package there are three common techniques.
[13:34] <persia> Most of us use pbuilder or sbuild
[13:35] <persia> You can also use `debuild -b` but this may not result in the same thing as you'd get if your patch was uploaded, so isn't the best test.
[13:35] <persia> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Bugs/HowToFix#The%20traditional%20process is a sensible place to start digging around on the wiki
[13:38] <shadeslayer> pitti: regarding bug 654236, i dont think a backport would be possible, since alot of work had to be done to port choqok to OAuth, ill contact upstream and see if its realistically possible tho
[13:39] <real_ate> persia: thanks for all the help! that page is exactly what I was looking for but wansn't quite able to find :)
[13:39] <real_ate> persia: hopefully you've helped me fix a rather annoying bug! cheers!
[13:39] <persia> real_ate, Which bug?
[13:39] <real_ate> i'm working on KDE gdm integration
[13:40] <shadeslayer> oooh ^
[13:40] <persia> Oh my :)  If you get it sorted, please remember to try to get it into Ubuntu, so we all have it fixed.  I think three are links to the sponsoring processes from that page.
[13:40] <real_ate> persia: i'm usually an upstream developer but I want to see if I can do this the right way and get a patch into LTS
[13:41] <real_ate> persia: thats the plan
[13:41] <real_ate> :)
[13:41] <persia> Excellent.
[13:41] <Riddell> real_ate: what needs done with KDE gdm integration?
[13:42] <real_ate> Riddell: it wasn't updated since the gdm protocol was updated
[13:42] <real_ate> so things like... you can't shutdown in KDE when you have gdm enabled
[13:42] <real_ate> selecting "switch user" actually just locks the screen
[13:42] <real_ate> etc.
[13:43] <mindentropy> Hi. When I am trying to upload my ssh key to launchpad it says invalid key. Do I need to upload everything in the id_rsa.pub file i.e. the last username@hostname too?
[13:44] <persia> mindentropy, I'd recommend asking in #launchpad: they likely know better than us.
[13:45] <wgrant> mindentropy: Yes.
[13:45] <Riddell> real_ate: ah right, would be good to have that fixed, sounds like a patch for kdebase-workspace somewhere
[13:45] <wgrant> I believe you need the comment too.
[13:46] <real_ate> Riddell: well i've got a fedora patch to use as a starting point
[13:46] <Riddell> real_ate: ah hah, so worth checking if the patch is in upstream KDE or not
[13:46] <real_ate> first point of call is to try that and see if it works, then get out my bug investigation hat!
[13:46] <real_ate> Riddell: its not
[13:47] <real_ate> Riddell: that is why i'm doing this... i'm trying to get this done
[13:51] <real_ate> persia: that page you sent me is suggesting that i work off the bzr repo... should i do it that way or can I just work off the apt-get source ?
[13:53] <persia> I just work off apt-get source myself.  Saves fussing with bzr.  There's all sorts of fancy infrastructure that handles commiting my uploads into bzr without me needing to think about it at all.
[13:55] <BUGabundo> tsimpson: pong :P
[13:56] <BUGabundo> topic needs to be updated for karmic :)
[14:01] <Jarvis> BTW, according to do-release-upgrade maverick is still classed as a development release, is that correct?
[14:01] <Jarvis> or are you waiting for the servers to calm down a bit first :p
[14:03]  * real_ate imagines the servers seeing red and going a little bit green and "hulky"
[14:03] <Jarvis> hehe :p
[14:03] <BUGabundo> Jarvis: it should work
[14:04] <BUGabundo> but -d will take care of it
[14:05] <Jarvis> yea thats what i've had to do, unfortunately if your using karmic, it only offers lucid , unless you do -d ... and if your on lucid, you get 'No new release found' unless you use -d
[14:05] <Jarvis> upgrade-manager (not sure if that uses do-release-upgrade or not) is the same . it doesn't see maverick
[14:07] <BUGabundo> Jarvis: are you set to long term (aka LTS) or normal releases?
[14:08] <Jarvis> i've not set anything, neither has my friend
[14:08] <Jarvis> so its whatever the defaults are
[14:09] <BUGabundo> please check the release target
[14:11] <Jarvis> BUGabundo: its set to lts .. and it seems thats the default :(
[14:12] <BUGabundo> yes
[14:12] <BUGabundo> so change to normal
[14:15] <Jarvis> cheers BUGabundo
[14:15] <BUGabundo> np
[15:18] <real_ate> wow! this debuild stuff is COOL! :D
[15:21] <real_ate> one question though... first i ran debuild -S and it generated the source package but it said that it was building too
[15:22] <real_ate> does it build a binary package with debuild -S ?
[15:23] <real_ate> grr... and now i've run debuild -S -us -uc but where does it build the deb package? :/
[15:31] <persia> real_ate, To convert a source package to a binary package, you likely want sbuild or pbuilder.  You can use `debuild -b` but it's not recommended.
[15:31] <persia> !sbuild
[15:31] <persia> !pbuilder
[15:31] <persia> `mk-sbuild` or `pbuilder-dist` from the ubuntu-dev-tools package will likely make it much easier to set up either one.
[15:32] <real_ate> i take it that those convienience scripts are detailed on those how-to pages?
[15:32] <nigelb> is Lubuntu an official derivative yet (I think no, but I'd like to confirm)?
[15:35] <gilir> nigelb, no, it's not on the Ubuntu release announcement
[15:35] <padhu> Not yet
[15:35] <nigelb> Thank you :)
[15:36] <persia> lubuntu *is* a fine derivative.  it's 99% of the way to being a flavour (but not there yet)
[15:37] <Tm_T> it needs a bit more sugar to have correctt flavour (:)
[15:37] <persia> No.  Needs someone (me) to publish clear documentation on how to become a flavour, and someone (else) to stamp it as the official procedure.
[15:38] <real_ate> wow! pbuilder is even cooler than debuild! :D he he he
[15:38] <persia> Sugar is a different proto-flavour
[15:39] <persia> And I hear that there may be discussion of spice at UDS, although I'm not yet convinced I understand it entirely.
[15:40] <penguin42> the remote video thing?
[15:44] <persia> No, nor the circuit simulator thing.  something related to flavours, but I'm waiting for a spec to be drafted.
[15:45] <real_ate> grrr! damn you release! pbulder can't rectrieve its packages cos I assume the servers are busy! oh what a world! ;)
[15:47] <pitti> shadeslayer: fair enough
[15:47] <persia> real_ate, The couple days after release are the least convenient for doing Ubuntu development (unless you happen to live near a mirror that doesn't have many users).
[15:48] <padhu> real_ate: +1
[15:48] <real_ate> persia: :D what is the process of mirroring? lol
[15:52] <persia> real_ate, You don't want to start now :)  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Mirrors
[15:52] <real_ate> lol
[15:54] <real_ate> it would be done in 2 days time and by then i could just develop normally :D
[15:56] <persia> real_ate, I doubt that.  When there's no current release, setting up a mirror usually takes a week or two (for sites with lots of bandwidth).
[16:09] <real_ate> well things are starting to pick up now! I just wonder what it will do when it comes to the end... "sorry all that time is wasted 'cos we couldn't get these packages: {blah}" ;)
[16:10] <real_ate> interestingly they were only warnings and not errors :s
[16:11] <persia> I think it retries until it succeeds.  I don't use pbuilder, but for sbuild I always pass debootstrap-mirror= to point at a local mirror.
[16:11] <persia> I seem to remember pbuilder-dist having some code that tried to automate that, but I'm unsure how well it works.
[16:12] <real_ate> persia: well i was having trouble with the UK mirror so I changed my sources to the main server... but this pbuilder is still using the local mirror
[16:13] <real_ate> so it must be doing something intilligent!
[16:41] <real_ate> nope!
[16:41] <real_ate> it just died
[16:41] <real_ate> have to start from the begining again ! :(
[16:58] <diogorcorreia> hey guys, what i might to do to become a ubuntu tester?
[16:59] <BUGabundo_movies> diogorcorreia: you join #ubuntu+1 once it opens again
[17:00] <BUGabundo_movies> after tool chain opens
[17:00] <asac> congrats for release!
[17:00] <BUGabundo_movies> and you run a disposable system or VM
[17:00] <BUGabundo_movies> ehy asac
[17:00] <asac> hell BUGabundo_movies
[17:00] <asac> hello ;)
[17:00] <asac> funny typo
[17:00] <BUGabundo_movies> diogorcorreia: reporting bugs to launchpad, following devel and devel-discuss MLs
[17:01]  * BUGabundo_movies slaps asac
[17:01] <asac> hehe
[17:02] <diogorcorreia> BUGabundo_movies: once it opens again?
[17:02] <diogorcorreia> BUGabundo_movies: is it closed for now?
[17:02] <BUGabundo_movies> yes
[17:02] <BUGabundo_movies> till tool chain
[17:03] <diogorcorreia> ok, so i must download some tools before start?
[17:03] <BUGabundo_movies> not really
[17:04] <BUGabundo_movies> set up a vm, and install maverick, ready to upgrade to 11.04 devel
[17:06] <yofel> diogorcorreia: see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment/UsingDevelopmentReleases for this, also see http://qa.ubuntu.com/testing/
[17:08] <diogorcorreia> Ok, Thanks for the support!
[17:08] <diogorcorreia> btw, anyone from Portugal here?
[17:18] <BUGabundo_movies> diogorcorreia: #ubuntu-pt
[17:22] <jackyalcine> hello?
[17:22] <micahg> !ask | jackyalcine
[17:23] <jackyalcine> okay
[17:23] <jackyalcine> soo ive been looking at IDEs
[17:23] <jackyalcine> and im accustomed to Visual Studio.
[17:23] <jackyalcine> of course this doesnt work on Ubuntu
[17:24] <jackyalcine> but i want to use GTK
[17:24] <jackyalcine> soo ?
[17:24] <jackyalcine> good ideas?
[17:29] <jackyalcine> ?
[17:30] <huntz0r> jackyalcine, try mono-develop
[17:31] <jackyalcine> i have.
[17:31] <jackyalcine> it wasn't to my taste, though.
[17:31] <jackyalcine> not a fully extensible system.
[17:31] <huntz0r> what language do you wnt to use?  Yeah, wasn't to mine either tbh, but its as good as it gets AFAIK for .net dev under linux
[17:34] <jackyalcine> C++
[17:34] <jackyalcine> or C
[17:34] <jackyalcine> so far, the Qt framework's awesome.
[17:34] <jackyalcine> i'm working on making a more efficient GUI for the AirCrack software.
[17:37] <huntz0r> jackyalcine, sounds cool!  I'm not a c/cpp programmer so I don't think I'll be of too much use, have you tried out ajanta?  I mean if you use that in conjunction with glade, you might be onto a winner
[17:38] <huntz0r> other than that, eclipse or netbeans might be a better option, I've only used those for java development, but they do support c/c++
[17:49] <huntz0r> jackyalcine, just tried out anjuta, seems to do what you need it to do.  In my opinion, the gui builder is not quite as simple to use as the visual studio one, but may be good enough for what you need.
[17:49] <jackyalcine> ajunta was okayy!
[17:49] <jackyalcine> but i need a GUI with forms intergration.. saves time.
[17:49] <jackyalcine> and eclipse has a plugin for Qt, it's okay, but Eclipse feels bloated.
[17:49] <jackyalcine> and Netbeans... >_< not a fan of Oracle.
[17:51] <kklimonda> have you tried QtCreator?
[17:51] <kklimonda> oh, you want to use Gtk+
[17:54] <huntz0r> jackyalcine, if you double click the .ui file in the src folder of your new gtk+ project it comes up with a form builder thing, is that what you're after?
[17:54] <jackyalcine> yess, huntz0r
[17:55] <jackyalcine> im in for RAD for C/C++
[18:14] <penguin42> valac seems an interesting approach
[18:15] <jackyalcine> valac?
[18:15] <penguin42> http://live.gnome.org/Vala
[18:15] <penguin42> jackyalcine: It's an object based C varient where gobject's are 1st class parts of the language
[18:15] <penguin42> shotwell is written in it
[18:16] <jackyalcine> interesting.
[18:59] <YokoZar> pitti: Yes although my hope is that wine 1.2.1 can go through like today
[19:11] <sladen> keybuk: there's a question about yer MoM on the end of https://bugs.launchpad.net/indicator-application/+bug/625793
[19:12] <sladen> keybuk: wondering how to extract just a portion of a patch
[19:23] <shadeslayer> pitti: 1) Upstream says its not possible to backport and 2) upstream says we need to ship choqok 0.9.90 and qoauth 1.01
[19:23] <shadeslayer> um
[19:24] <shadeslayer> 1.0.1
[19:35] <Chipzz> sladen: the thing that popped to mind when I read that was: queue the "Yo Momma" jokes ;P
[19:39] <slangasek> pitti: ping
[19:54] <ari-tczew> slangasek: did you know this bug? bug 653274
[19:56] <persia> ari-tczew, Do you know if it is fixable?  I thought that required KMS support for the relevant DRI.
[19:57] <ari-tczew> persia: I don't know. I think that I'm also affected by this bug and now I'm attaching a photo to this bug.
[19:58] <persia> ari-tczew, I'd encourage you not to highlight folk about bugs unless you happen to have some ideas about them to help fix them.  Especially not in this channel.
[19:58] <ari-tczew> persia: I don;t mind.
[19:59] <persia> Sure, but the folk you highlight might :)
[20:01] <ari-tczew> persia: I saw that slangasek is involved in plymouth, so I wanted ask him whether he knows this bug. that's all.
[20:01] <ari-tczew> and making too much policy in communicator making me upset (and I think that not only me)
[20:01] <ari-tczew> we are not robot to talking in procedures
[20:02] <persia> I'm not trying to set policy.  I just think that this channel works better when people use it to collaborate to solve issues, rather than asking about the many bugs.
[20:02] <persia> Entirely my opinion, really.
[20:03] <ari-tczew> persia: it's just release day, I think it doesn't matter which channel is excellent. natty is not open yet.
[20:04] <persia> So?  Here's a list of a good bundle of issues probably not in the bug tracker that are probably release-critical and need immediate SRU: http://qa.ubuntuwire.com/bugs/rcbugs/
[20:05] <ari-tczew> persia: OK, I won't investigate in bugs.
[20:05] <ari-tczew> you did this one. I'm discouraged.
[20:05] <persia> Feel free to investigate anything you like.
[20:06] <ari-tczew> persia: take your policy communication and destroy ubuntu contribution. ban me if I couldn't ask here for bugs in fresh release.
[20:07] <owen1> is this the final/offical xubuntu - http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/xubuntu/releases/10.10/release/
[20:07] <persia> Like I said before, I'm only expressing my opinion.  I am not telling you about policy.  I'm not currently someone who even could ban from this channel.
[20:07] <owen1> why it's not part of xubuntu's site?
[20:07] <persia> owen1, yes.  Dunno.  Maybe the xubuntu guys didn't update their site yet.
[20:08] <ari-tczew> persia: I think that we can close this discussion at this moment.
[20:14] <owen1> persia: do they have an irc channel? we should tell them there is a new release...
[20:15] <persia> owen1, I suspect they know, but you might try #xubuntu or #xubuntu-devel
[20:15] <persia> The trick is that there might be a gap between the folk who know about the release and the folk who know how to update the website to talk about the release.
[20:25] <spy6> hi there
[20:25] <spy6> anybody seen problems on upgrading from 10.04 to 10.10 via "do-release-upgrade -d" like http://pastebin.ca/1958814
[20:25] <spy6> without glibc systems are not so comfortable :)
[20:27] <persia> spy6, That's definitely unexpected.  Please file a bug.  I suspect it's specific to your system (but have no idea why)
[20:27] <spy6> persia: any suggestions which package?
[20:28] <spy6> anyways .. even debugging is not so easy without glibc
[20:28] <persia> I'd file against update-manager to start.
[20:29] <spy6> any ideas if that problem maybe recoverable? i guess without glibc i need to reinstall
[20:29] <persia> If you can get to IRC, you can probably grab the .deb from somewhere, adn dpkg -i install it.
[20:29] <persia> Reinstallation might be easier.
[20:29] <persia> But if you reinstall, you'll havea  hard time recreating the environment that exposes the bug.
[20:29] <spy6> persia: dpkg -i /var/cache/apt/archives/libc6_2.12.1-0ubuntu6_i386.deb
[20:29] <spy6> dpkg: /lib/tls/libc.so.6: version `GLIBC_2.4' not found (required by dpkg)
[20:30] <persia> Oh, heh.
[20:30] <spy6> persia: i'm online from a different system
[20:30] <spy6> even dpkg needs glibc
[20:30] <persia> Yeah, recovery from that might be highly awkward.
[20:31] <ebroder> It...seems wrong that dpkg will let you remove dependencies of essential packages without extensive whining and screaming
[20:31] <ion> Boot with a live CD and unpack the deb to the root partition manually
[20:31] <spy6> ebroder: yeah, thought so
[20:31] <persia> ebroder, libc6-i686 oughtn't be essential, because there's libc6 (but something is odd)
[20:31] <spy6> ion: eh! nice idea ;)
[20:32] <spy6> will try that tomorrow, when i have physical access to the system
[20:51] <slangasek> ari-tczew: I've not been involved in plymouth maintenance this cycle; and I don't have any hardware that uses the proprietary drivers, so it's hard for me to debug such things
[21:12] <GPenguin> whats a good alternative for #ubuntu?
[21:17] <slangasek> what do you mean, "alternative"?
[21:18] <GPenguin> slangasek: a smaller and more lively place maybe, where people discuss Ubuntu related topics
[21:20] <micahg> GPenguin: #ubuntuforums?
[21:20] <GPenguin> micahg: ah, thats a good one. i keep forgetting about it
[21:22] <highvoltage> sabdfl: ubuntu is 6 years old with this release right? if you add the numbers of 42 (4+2) you get 6.
[21:24] <ion> I’m sure there are about a million ways to get a random number related to Ubuntu from another set of numbers related to Ubuntu. ;-)
[21:24] <GPenguin> highvoltage: the real magic number for (german) hackers is 23 tho
[21:25] <GPenguin> cause Robert A. Wilson said so
[21:25] <GPenguin> and i am not saying sabdfl is involved in that conspiracy :-P
[21:25] <GPenguin> 23, 2+3 - 5, Ubuntu 5 was the first release. RIGHT?!
[21:29] <ari-tczew> GPenguin: The first release of Ubuntu was 4.10 Warty Warthog.
[21:29] <GPenguin> oh, bummer
[21:30] <ari-tczew> when natty will be open?
[21:31] <micahg> ari-tczew: asking multiple times won't help, the answer is when it's ready :)
[21:32] <ari-tczew> micahg: I know, but the sooner is the better
[21:33] <stgraber> ari-tczew: anyway, you want to have the toolchain uploaded and some of the most common packages to be updated before uploading anything to a new release.
[21:34] <stgraber> ari-tczew: also, it's usually a good idea to wait for UDS so at least you know what's the focus for the next release and what you should be focusing on.
[21:34] <ari-tczew> stgraber: ok I understand and I remember, that it's related to gcc updates.
[21:35] <ari-tczew> stgraber: heh, I work there where I want to work.
[21:36] <GPenguin> !
[21:36] <GPenguin> ari-tczew: but what if the entire team works against you then?
[21:37] <GPenguin> knowing what the team plans to do can really help
[21:37] <stgraber> ari-tczew: yes, gcc is one of the packages that's part of the toolchain indeed. So is binutils and the libc. Any major change of these might require rebuild of everything else that was uploaded.
[21:38] <ari-tczew> GPenguin: there are a lot of things to do - merges, security updates, rc bugs, ftbfs, SRUs. I'm not a Canonical employee and I won't work with UDS objectives. I could, but I don't need.
[21:41] <GPenguin> speaking of security updates, i am wondering what the status is regarding apparmor. it seems to disappear from novell/suse sites since quite a while. and the ubuntu community does not really reflect on it either
[21:41] <GPenguin> is a proper selinux integration maybe more desireable?
[21:42] <micahg> GPenguin: apparmor is actively used in Ubuntu and has been accepted as part of the linux mainline kernel
[21:43] <GPenguin> micahg: how do you know its actively used when i may ask so directly?
[21:44] <micahg> GPenguin: it's installed by default
[21:44] <GPenguin> tomoyo e.g. is also accepted upstream btw
[21:45] <micahg> GPenguin: https://launchpad.net/apparmor
[21:45] <GPenguin> yeah, its installed by default like many other things. but it does not mean many people make use of it
[21:45] <micahg> GPenguin: it works behind the scenes in most cases to enhance security
[21:46] <ari-tczew> GPenguin: advanced questions about security are welcome on #ubuntu-hardened
[21:48] <GPenguin> i am asking cause ... the only documentation is the release notes. the ubuntu wiki points to a suse wiki that does not exist, etc.
[21:49] <GPenguin> that leaves a lot of mystery to the average users
[21:52] <jdstrand> GPenguin: what page has the link to suse?
[21:52] <jdstrand> GPenguin: apparmor is primarily maintained by Canonical these days
[21:52] <GPenguin> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/AppArmor
[21:53] <GPenguin> in the resources section
[21:53] <jdstrand> ok. I'll adjust
[21:53] <GPenguin> thats where it _would_ get interesting actually. there it stops :-)))
[21:53] <jdstrand> GPenguin: there is also https://wiki.ubuntu.com/AppArmor
[21:54] <GPenguin> checking it out, thanks
[21:55] <GPenguin> ah, and there is a *-doc package which i missed
[21:55] <GPenguin> lets see
[21:59] <GPenguin> thats it, exactly what i was looking for: /usr/share/doc/apparmor-docs/techdoc.pdf
[22:01] <jdstrand> GPenguin: ok, the community page has been edited. you might also be interested in https://apparmor.wiki.kernel.org/index.php/Documentation
[22:01] <jdstrand> (I also added that to the wiki)
[22:01]  * jdstrand wanders off
[22:03] <GPenguin> hang on, why does that page look a lot different from the other kernel.org resource, hmmm
[22:03] <jdstrand> GPenguin: it is a wiki page. projects in the kernel can ask for a wiki and they can do with it what they want
[22:04] <GPenguin> yeah, somebody should re-work https://apparmor.wiki.kernel.org/index.php/Main_Page maybe
[22:04] <jdstrand> GPenguin: it isn't 'official kernel documentation' -- but AppArmor is in the kernel so it is eligible to have a wiki hosted in the kernel.org namespace
[22:04] <GPenguin> problem is, that i dont understand enough yet to be of any help
[22:04] <jdstrand> GPenguin: the apparmor wiki is a work in progress
[22:05] <jdstrand> there is a lot to do...
[22:05] <GPenguin> but its good to know that Canonical took over from Novell
[22:05] <GPenguin> so its no dead investment to learn more about it
[22:06] <jdstrand> GPenguin: hardly! it is now in the official upstream kernel :)
[22:06] <GPenguin> :-)
[22:08] <jdstrand> GPenguin: we (Canonical and AppArmor upstream) are actively working on it for maintenance and features. you can expect more distributions besides Ubuntu and Suse (et al) to have it now that it is official (eg Debian)
[22:09] <GPenguin> while redhat is more into expanding selinux support so it feels
[22:09]  * jdstrand nods
[22:10] <jdstrand> Ubuntu also has selinux available too, but it isn't the best fit for Ubuntu
[22:10] <jdstrand> that is oversimplified
[22:11] <jdstrand> AppArmor is a better default choice for Ubuntu
[22:11] <GPenguin> for a desktop that changes often it requires too much work
[22:11]  * jdstrand notes that Ubuntu is much, much more than a desktop OS
[22:11] <GPenguin> e.g. with browsers like chromium
[22:12] <jdstrand> than 'just' a desktop OS :)
[22:12] <GPenguin> well! :-)
[22:12] <spy6> okay ... i recovered vrom brocken libc
[22:12] <GPenguin> the whole cloud computing stuff has yet to be defined
[22:13] <jdstrand> (we've had a server install for years)
[22:13] <jdstrand> and it is quite good, imnsho
[22:13] <spy6> anybody a guess, why upgrading to 10.10 result into http://pastebin.ca/1958827?
[22:14] <spy6> why is removing libc6-i686 so bad?
[22:14] <spy6> there is no install candidat for it in 10.10
[22:15]  * jdstrand really leaves
[22:15] <micahg> spy6: you might want to try #ubuntu
[22:19] <jibel> spy6, can you file a bug against update-manager, describe what you did and attach the files in /var/log/dist-upgrade/ . Thanks.
[22:20] <spy6> jussi: thanks, I'll do
[23:19] <BUGabundo> just made such a nice /etc/grub.d/40_custom that it should be default :P
[23:19] <BUGabundo> boots from desktop livecd, netboot (that doesn't work cause of GPU driver), netboot.me and mini.iso
[23:19] <BUGabundo> had to hack a bit of netboot, cause my grub2 is on 64bits, and netboot is 32
[23:20] <BUGabundo> linux16 to the rescue
[23:20] <persia> Why ought that be default?  I'd think it would confuse lots of folks.
[23:20] <BUGabundo> $ pastebinit /etc/grub.d/40_custom   http://paste.ubuntu.com/510426/
[23:20] <BUGabundo> persia: great rescue system :D
[23:21] <GPenguin> a rescue system that depends on a working grub2 :-)
[23:21] <BUGabundo> eheh
[23:21] <BUGabundo> true
[23:22] <BUGabundo> its also great to test daily isos
[23:22] <GPenguin> for that its great, yeah
[23:24] <superm1> BUGabundo, curious, when the system is mounted like that, does that partition containing the ISO still get a mount point by default?
[23:24] <BUGabundo> superm1: I have /boot on a partition
[23:24] <BUGabundo> cause my / is on btrfs
[23:25] <superm1> ah
[23:25] <BUGabundo> but yeah, on a non mounted system, you would need to adapt it
[23:25] <BUGabundo> and change the hdroot
[23:26] <superm1> BUGabundo, well if it can be adapted well to work with casper, it could make for a nice solution for usb-creator installs when switching to grub. usb-creator would just need to copy the .iso to the stick rather than extracting it
[23:26] <BUGabundo> yeah, thinking about it
[23:26] <BUGabundo> let me get you a stock set
[23:27] <BUGabundo> superm1: http://www.panticz.de/MultiBootUSB
[23:27] <BUGabundo> there's a stock boot from usb containing an ISO
[23:29] <BUGabundo> my guess, have casper look for iso on mounte usb devices
[23:30] <persia> BUGabundo, The tricky bit is that casper is inside a squashfs on the ISO
[23:30] <persia> So the nifty config would be something that would work on the ISO, but when copied to USB/MMC/etc. would also work from that.
[23:31] <persia> (one assumes a first-stage bootloader capable of device selection for this purpose)
[23:31] <superm1> usb-creator can always write a custom config out too
[23:31] <superm1> think something that just loop mounts the iso, and chainloads into the grub on the ISO already
[23:31] <BUGabundo> persia: but casper _is_ capable of reading the ISO... that's what I did on 3 of those entries
[23:31] <BUGabundo> cause its mounted loop
[23:32] <persia> BUGabundo, Right.  I'm imagining that I have an Ubuntu install (which doesn't have casper) and I want to make a target to install for another device that has no optical drive.
[23:33] <BUGabundo> well, put grub on the usb :P
[23:33] <persia> superm1, I'm not a huge fan of usb-creator writing out configs, because it makes it harder to make it "just work" for armel/ppc (mind you, grub2/ppc needs more testing, and grub2/armel needs porting, so these aren't really first-class targets yet)
[23:34] <BUGabundo> isn't that what usb-creator fakes?
[23:34] <persia> Right.  Idea is to not fake it, but to have a configuration that allows one to just copy files from ISO to USB without anything else.
[23:35] <persia> That means one can more easily write USB creator for Windows/OS X/Android/etc.
[23:37] <BUGabundo> persia: then you need grub2 installed on a pendrive, and BIOS boot from it
[23:38] <BUGabundo> then, having usb-creator just create a grub.cfg to boot from an ISO, just like I did mine
[23:38] <persia> Precisely, and you have to do this in a way that lets you just copy the ISO rather than processing it.
[23:38] <BUGabundo> I'm lost
[23:38] <BUGabundo> what's hard about that?
[23:38] <BUGabundo> copy, install, create cfg
[23:38] <persia> Yep.  Not terribly difficult, but needs a bit of documentation, cleanup, and integration into existing systems.
[23:39] <BUGabundo> I know nothing about usb creator, so I may be wrong
[23:39] <persia> Oh, what's hard?  hard is making it just work for people who have never heard of "grub2" :)
[23:39] <BUGabundo> grub2 has pretty neat support for all of that
[23:39] <BUGabundo> ahhh
[23:39] <BUGabundo> LOL
[23:39] <BUGabundo> but all major distros are using grub2 for.... one or two cycles!
[23:40] <BUGabundo> even debian has it on testing
[23:40] <persia> Sure, but that means, given the market share numbers I'm making up right now, 95% of folks have never used it, and 99% of folks don't know they used it.
[23:41] <persia> Or maybe I made a mistake in math: the idea being that 80% of grub2 users don't know they use grub2
[23:41] <persia> And 95% of folks don't use any major distro (or any minor one, etc.)
[23:42] <BUGabundo> ok, lets back up a little here
[23:42] <BUGabundo> we are talking of improving usb-creator to boot from ISO instead of processing its content
[23:42] <BUGabundo> OR
[23:42] <BUGabundo> are we speaking of making a failsafe entrie in GRUB2 to allow remote/iso boot
[23:42] <BUGabundo> ?
[23:43] <persia> The former: so that the ISO can just be copied onto the USB stick, rather than needing to be unpacked, processed, etc.
[23:44] <persia> Should reduce usb-creator code size significantly, and, ideally, more closely align the install experience.
[23:44] <superm1> there would still need to be some processing done though to install grub to the stick
[23:44] <BUGabundo> I agree
[23:44] <superm1> which wouldn't necessarily making it any easier to implement on !linux systems
[23:44] <BUGabundo> superm1: yes, that would be one part of it
[23:44] <persia> Oh well.
[23:44] <BUGabundo> we have usb creator on NON linux systems?
[23:45] <superm1> well that was something persia mentioned above as being desirable
[23:45] <BUGabundo> ahh
[23:45] <persia> non-linux is definitely worth extra points.
[23:45] <BUGabundo> grub2dos ?
[23:46] <BUGabundo> the pen drive is already in fat32
[23:46]  * persia had a 48-hour sprint for jaunty release to end up with a Windows tool to turn .img files on releases.ubuntu.com into bootable USB drives.
[23:46] <superm1> the current way that usb-creator has grub code in place, when the ISOs are switched to booting with grub, dd is used to put the stages of grub in place
[23:46] <superm1> so that can be easily adapted on other OS's