[05:05] <Mohan_chml> Hello people
[05:05] <Mohan_chml> We need anyone to ban a guy fron #ubuntu-beginners as the Opped peeps are not there. Anyone please come in
[06:14] <nhandler> Mohan_chml: Asking here is pretty useless for that channel. Your best bet if no OPs are around is to just stop by #ubuntu-beginners-council. Someone there can help (there is also the ! o p s bot trigger in emergencies)
[07:27] <Mohan_chml> nhandler: ty :)\
[18:48] <trijntje> Hi all, the dutch might want to have a translated ubottu in #ubuntu-nl, what would need to be done to get that?
[18:49] <erUSUL> trijntje: translated how? the factoids?
[18:49] <tsimpson> run through all the factoids and make channel-(language)-specific ones
[18:49] <trijntje> erUSUL, yes, the factoids translated
[18:50] <tsimpson> translation support in ubottu (and supybot) is poor or non-existent
[18:51] <erUSUL> trijntje: you have to translate them yourself.... or run a clone and build your own database ...
[18:51] <erUSUL> in #ubuntu-es m4v runs kubot we slowly build our own db and the bot falls back to the english db when needed
[18:51] <trijntje> so we'd need to translated some raw file, that's not too bad
[18:52] <trijntje> thats also what I was thinking, maybe just leave it blank and expand it as we go
[18:53] <erUSUL> when you have the bot you quickly see what factoids are more used and need translation
[18:54] <m4v> There's no easy way for translate factoids, other than adding them manually.
[18:54] <trijntje> and would the bot run from some server owned by ubuntu/sponsor or just from someones basement?
[18:54] <erUSUL> m4v: we can dup the db in a sql file? translate then load it again? with sqlite tools ?
[18:55] <erUSUL> wouldn't be possible to dump ... i meant
[18:55] <m4v> and kubot is the only bot with the "use local language if available or default to english" feature
[18:55] <m4v> erUSUL: yes. is posible-
[19:03] <trijntje> maybe it would be best just too see what factoids are used most and translated them, rather then translating them all at once
[19:05] <m4v> you can look the popular factoids in the web, and tell the new factoids to the bot
[19:06] <trijntje> If I understood the wiki correctly some people can be set as 'moderators' who can review suggestions done for factoids?
[19:07] <m4v> yeah, at least for ubottu clones.
[19:07] <trijntje> via IRC somehow or via the web?
[19:07] <m4v> irc only
[19:11] <trijntje> do all ubottu's run from some central server or just from peoples homes?
[19:11] <m4v> most are sponsored I think
[19:13] <trijntje> ubottu.com say's "The Rackspace Cloud", but I dont suppose I'd need to e-mail them I want a bot in #ubuntu-nl? :P
[19:13] <erUSUL> o.0!
[19:16] <m4v> I believe tsimpson or jussi can get you an ubottu clone in -nl
[19:19] <trijntje> m4v, thanks, lets see if they show up
[19:21] <jussi> does -nl not have a clone?
[19:22] <m4v> I don't see one..
[19:22] <jussi> wow
[19:22] <jussi> lubotu3: join #ubuntu-nl
[19:22] <jussi> there you are
[19:23] <jussi> trijntje:
[19:23] <trijntje> wicket
[19:24] <m4v> trijntje: you will have to endure with english factoids and suggest translated ones so them can be added later to the main database for some of the maintainers
[19:24] <trijntje> (The meeting for official approval of a bot in #ubuntu-nl is as we speak, lets hope they accept)
[19:25] <m4v> s/for some/by some/
[19:26] <trijntje> m4v, how will the maintainers know whether or not some dutch guy is trolling?
[19:44] <m4v> maybe there is somebody that knows dutch
[19:47] <m4v> lubotu3 uses the database from ubottu, adding factoids isn't so straightforward
[19:48] <Gotiniens> I think there is enough people willing too translate to dutch
[19:48] <trijntje> So it wouldnt be possible to rebin !hi to "Hallo, welkom in #ubuntu-nl" without modifying ubottu?
[19:49] <trijntje> Gotiniens, no, someone has to review the new dutch suggestions, but that someone has to know the dutch suggestions is appropriate/not trolling etc
[19:49] <m4v> no, ubottu doesn't have support for translations :/
[19:50] <Gotiniens> are we the first non english LoCo to request ubottu then?
[19:50] <Gotiniens> trijntje,  someone from our own translation team could do that
[19:51] <trijntje> so #ubuntu-es only uses !keywords that are not used in ubottu? In that case it might be easier to run an independent instance of ubottu?
[19:52] <trijntje> Gotiniens, yes, but that would require someone of the team to have acces to ubottu's brain. I'm not sure the owners/maintainers of ubottu want that
[19:52] <m4v> I can look into making something like I did in #ubuntu-es, or dropping kubot in -nl, technically it could work, but I never tried with a third language
[19:53] <persia> The code for ubottu is available: if someone wants to fork it and run a separate bot.
[19:53] <persia> Still needs approval to run the bot, but doesn't require the same bot wranglers in every case.
[19:54] <m4v> trijntje: you can use a independent instance of ubottu, the only drawback is that you won't get updates from ubottu
[19:54] <Gotiniens> that can be arranged manually I suppose?
[19:54] <persia> m4v, If there's lots of calls for localised bots, it might be worth making a brain-merge-maintenance tool...
[19:54] <Gotiniens> because they first have to be translated anyway
[19:54] <trijntje> m4v, are those only factoid updates or also other kind of updates?
[19:55] <m4v> factoids updates, yes, the code isn't updated that often
[19:55] <erUSUL> why not run a clone/separate instance of kubot that has support for the two db's -- localized and ubottu's ?
[19:55] <trijntje> so mostly updates for new release-names I would think?
[19:58] <m4v> any factoid that gets updated
[19:58] <persia> There's also new or changed factoids every once in a while.
[19:59] <persia> Especially over long time: things like "extras" and "ppa" and similar didn't exist when the bots started, because the things to which they refer didn't exist.
[20:03] <trijntje> yes, but those would probably get added anyway if there are a lot of questions in those area's
[20:40] <m4v> well, if you don't mind that, then you can setup your ubottu clone, the code is in https://code.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-bots/ubuntu-bots/devel (you need to install supybot) you can ask us in #ubuntu-bots-team if you run into trouble
[20:41] <m4v> I used to have a ubottu instance free to use but looks like it died
[20:46] <trijntje> m4v, I will ask the dutch IRC team which option they prefer, I personally think an own instance is easiest to maintain
[20:47] <m4v> kubot has a better factoid plugin but haven't written any documentation in english... and there's probably some spanish bits I haven't nailed down yet.
[20:52] <trijntje> I dont know if there are many spanish speakers on the dutch IRC team, but I think its up to them which bot they want to use
[20:57] <m4v> I was just saying, I don't think it can be used in its current state.
[22:08] <trijntje> m4v, sorry for the late response, I overlooked your last message. I will tell that to the dutch IRC-team
[22:10] <m4v> trijntje: It would be interesting to use kubot, is a sort of "prototype" for the nextgen factoid plugin, but I need to code some stuff first
[22:12] <m4v> so I'm not too eager to offer it right away for use it in u-nl :P
[22:12] <trijntje> jussi, The dutch IRC-team will deliberate about having a translated bot and how they will do that. Could you retract lubottu3 from #ubuntu-nl in the mean time, until its officially approved?
[22:14] <trijntje> m4v, I've looked into ubottu a bit on the wiki etc, but i know very little about it. What improvements would kubot have?
[22:19] <m4v> there's history tracking, you can undo/redo changes in a factoid, or see how a factoid looked previously.
[22:20] <nhandler> m4v: Wouldn't it be fairly trivial to store the factoid db in a vcs of some sort to allow us to roll back a factoid to prior versions?
[22:21] <m4v> when calling a factoid it will search first in the local language first and default to english if it wasn't trasnlated yet
[22:22] <trijntje> thats a nice trick, that would be handy
[22:23] <m4v> nhandler: I'm not sure how that it would work, you would revert changes to a certain date, but you wouldn't tell between the legit changes for the bad ones, since the db is mostly binary
[22:23] <persia> Be warned that some factoids (e.g. !nl) are best left intentionally untranslated.
[22:25] <m4v> you only translate the ones you want, you still can see the factoids of any db anyways, you can try "!hi" (spanish) or "!hi --db en" (english) with kubot
[22:25] <trijntje> persia, thats a good point
[22:28] <m4v> scratch my last statement, !hi doesn't exist for some reason...
[22:29] <nhandler> m4v: !hi was removed in the past few weeks iirc
[22:29] <m4v> works with !ubuntu
[22:29] <m4v> nhandler: ah..
[22:34] <m4v> we even have a fake language "offtopic" for -es-ot, so factoids created there doesn't show in u-es
[22:39] <trijntje> m4v, i'm off now, thanks for your help, ill come by again when there are more questions or when we have a bot running
[22:39] <m4v> uhmm, commands like "factoid is this" or "tell nick about this" can be localized, that's probably the main features.
[22:40] <m4v> the problem i see now is that most of the bot's replies are in spanish, I need to nail down that.
[22:40] <m4v> trijntje: bye
[22:40] <persia> Probably needs generalisation into the same language-selection system
[22:43] <trijntje> jussi, The dutch IRC-team will deliberate about having a translated bot and how they will do that. Could you retract lubottu3 from #ubuntu-nl in the mean time, until its officially approved? Thanks
[22:43] <m4v> yes, since the kubot wasn't used outside spanish channels I never gave it much priority
[22:43] <m4v> s/wasn't/isn't/
[22:45] <m4v> and lately I was only coding stuff for ubottu