[00:14] <BUGabundo> nite guys
[00:14] <BUGabundo> this was fun
[04:09] <JoeCoolNetbook1> Can I make a suggestion about the top panel's UI?
[04:10] <ion> Sure. Of course, if you make it here, it’ll get lost in the noise.
[04:11] <JoeCoolNetbook1> Where can I go so it'll actually get discussed on, etc, ion?
[04:11] <persia> That's tricky.
[04:11] <persia> brainstorm is probably best for discussion.
[04:11] <micahg> !brainstorm | JoeCoolNetbook1
[04:11] <persia> A bug with a technical solution is probably best for implementation.
[04:12] <JoeCoolNetbook1> It's pretty simple.  If you have Wireless and Bluetooth, to disable or enable the wireless radios, you have to right click on the icon, to disable or enable the bluetooh radios, you have to Left click on the icon.
[04:12] <JoeCoolNetbook1> It's inconsistent.
[04:13] <persia> Oh.  I think there's already a bug about that.
[04:13] <persia> Something about replacing nm-applet with something indicatory
[04:13] <RAOF> Yeah, that's nm-applet being a notification area icon, rather than an indicator.
[04:14] <persia> JoeCoolNetbook1, Currently, it's possible to make them consistent with right-click, but not in a harmonious colour scheme without extra work.
[04:15] <persia> But it's very likely to end up being consistent left-click for Ubuntu Desktop and Ubuntu Netbook.
[04:15] <JoeCoolNetbook1> Can I vote on it?
[04:16] <RAOF> By and large we don't really prioritise based on voting.
[04:16] <RAOF> I'd expect that to be done for Natty, though.
[04:16] <JoeCoolNetbook1> 11.04?
[04:17] <RAOF> Yeah.
[04:17] <persia> By and large?  Do we ever prioritise based on anything approaching voting?
[04:18] <RAOF> Bug heat is partially calculated based on voting, and has *some* impact :)
[04:18] <RAOF> Brainstorm has voting, and that has occasionally been referenced.
[04:18] <persia> Oh.  I didn't know any developers looked at that.  I suppose there is some means of populist feedback then :)
[04:19] <JoeCoolNetbook1> And another thing, In the Wireless Internet drop-down, there's "Connected" and "available".  There are (for me) two sections - Mobile BroadBand and Wireless Networks.
[04:19] <RAOF> _I_ generally don't look at brainstorm, but Jorge (at least) does, and that translates into UDS discussions sometimes :)
[04:19] <persia> Yeah, that's in dire need of an entire re-think, but it's *hard*
[04:19] <JoeCoolNetbook1> Those two are in Bold, and then there's a subsection of "available" networks, but it looks like a horizontal rule.
[04:20] <persia> RAOF, I considered that memetic drift, but yeah, I can see how it might have a vote-based component.
[04:20] <JoeCoolNetbook1> I think that should be switched to where "Mobile Broadband" and "Wireless Networks" are distinct sections with their own horizontal rules, and "avialable" a clear subset, in bold
[04:20] <JoeCoolNetbook1> With indentations of course
[04:21] <jcastro> iirc the techboard has a todo to look at as fa as looking at brainstorm proposals
[04:22] <persia> jcastro, Yes, but the TB is no longer in charge of setting the UDS agenda (unless I missed something)
[04:22] <RAOF> JoeCoolNetbook1: I suspect that we'll be discussing the indicatorfication of network manager at UDS, and that #ayatana (and the mailing list) would be the place to discuss mockups.  As persia said, it's hard UI design.
[04:23] <JoeCoolNetbook1>  Hard meaning difficult?
[04:23] <RAOF> Yeah.
[04:23]  * persia mumbles about wired modems, wireless ISDN, PANs, wired networks, packet radio, IrDA, and other means of moving bits)
[04:23] <RAOF> But also in the sense of serious, technical.
[04:24] <JoeCoolNetbook1> I don't know if it's really that difficult.
[04:24] <ajmitch> persia: you forgot pigeons
[04:25] <persia> Also in the sense of steady, unchangeable: there's huge semantic investment in the current model, which ends up either excluding a lot of use cases *or* becoming quickly unwieldy
[04:25] <JoeCoolNetbook1> It took me a week to figure out how it tried to display hierarchy.  Hierarchy should be very obvious and is pretty basic in UI design.
[04:25] <persia> ajmitch, I don't know of an implementation of RFC1149 that doesn't involve human operators and standard HID.
[04:26]  * persia looks more closely at RFC2549 to see if any new developments reduced the need for HID
[04:26] <RAOF> JoeCoolNetbook1: The difficult part is not so much in finding ways the current UI is sub-optimal; it's in actually finding a *good* UI :)
[04:27] <JoeCoolNetbook1> Anything is better than what it is now, though.
[04:27] <JoeCoolNetbook1> How are things decided on and implemented in Ubuntu?
[04:27] <RAOF> That's manifestly not true; that applet is an *improvement* on what came before.
[04:28] <RAOF> JoeCoolNetbook1: A small set of stuff is decided at UDS; mostly what gets implemented is what people care enough about to implement.
[04:28] <RAOF> (Like all open source)
[04:28] <persia> RAOF, I can't agree with that entirely.  For Studio it's not used because of the unexpected processor demand profile (although gnome-nettool is even more frightening as an interface)
[04:29] <JoeCoolNetbook1> RAOF, do you have a screenshot of how it was before?
[04:29] <persia> Even stuff that gets decided at UDS gets decided because people claim at UDS to care enough to implement it.
[04:30] <RAOF> JoeCoolNetbook1: Not off the top of my head, no.
[04:31] <RAOF> I'm tautologically surprised nm-applet has an unexpected CPU usage.
[04:32] <persia> heh.  Anyway, comes from unpredictable environment and failure-recovery modes.  gnome-nettool just fails dead until the user does something.
[04:34] <persia> Most folk much prefer http://xkcd.com/416/
[04:35]  * ajmitch still has a laptop that has wifi configured manually in /etc/network/interfaces
[04:35] <micahg> wow, I didn''t know Ubuntu made it into xkcd
[04:36] <ajmitch> micahg: ubuntu & debian have been mentioned a few times
[04:36] <ajmitch> http://xkcd.com/797/ being a nice example :)
[04:37] <JoeCoolNetbook1> I don't think Ubuntu is this niche distro anymore.
[04:37] <micahg> ajmitch: heh, yeah, I noticed that one recently
[04:38] <JoeCoolNetbook1> So having something done is a matter of doing it and commiting it into the repository and hoping it doesn't get reverted?
[04:39] <RAOF> Mostly, getting something done is a matter of getting it done upstream.
[04:40] <RAOF> Although, with an indicator there won't be an existing upstream, so it'd be a matter of writing the code, packaging it up, getting it in the archive, and then getting it installed by default.
[04:42] <persia> No need to bother with the last.
[04:42] <persia> if it works well, and it's not installed by default, one can still use it.
[04:42] <persia> And if it works really well, lots of people will clamour to get it installed by default.
[04:43] <RAOF> This is correct.
[04:43]  * persia points at the neverending rythymbox vs. banshee vs. available space on a CD debate
[04:45] <RAOF> That would be easy: just ship IronPython instead of cpython!  You get banshee *and* pick up some useful CD space :P
[04:46] <RAOF> And make some people's heads explode, which is always gratifying.
[04:47] <persia> Yeah, but can you do that and have rhythmbox too?
[06:53] <dholbach> good morning
[06:57] <pitti> Good morning
[06:58] <pitti> shadeslayer: ok, understood; please upload then
[06:58] <pitti> slangasek: hello
[07:05] <\sh> moins
[07:27] <pitti> still suspiciously quiet on the bug/mail/SRU front -- the calm before the storm?
[07:29] <\sh> pitti: they all need to find their towles ;)
[07:29] <\sh> pitti: good morning and congrats to the very well performed 10.10.10 release :)
[07:30]  * pitti checks again...
[07:30] <pitti> nope, Earth not destroyed by Vogons yet
[07:30] <Hobbsee> perhaps there just aren't bugs
[07:30] <pitti> \sh: good morning! yeah, kudos to Robbie, Kate, Colin, Jonathan!
[07:31] <\sh> pitti: have a look at mice folks in your house ;)
[07:31] <pitti> https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/maverick/+queue?queue_state=1&queue_text= ... c'mon!
[07:31] <pitti> \sh: no, they always want to put my head in medical devices
[07:33] <\sh> pitti: hehehe...I think we should invite all of them to "The Restaurant at the End of the Universe"
[07:34] <pitti> RAOF: ooh, so it's xorg-evdev after all? nice that finally there might be a solution
[07:36] <RAOF> pitti: Well, the dude says that it's fixed using the input drivers from xorg-edgers.  evdev *does* synthesise button events in some cases, but those none of those codepaths look like they ever send a DOWN without also immediately sending a corresponding UP.
[07:36] <RAOF> Having a diff to stare at would be much appreciated, if just the newer -evdev makes it work :)
[07:37] <pitti> RAOF: indeed
[07:37] <pitti> RAOF: but I now had several people try, and none of them got EV_KEY BTN_* events for those keys
[07:37] <pitti> RAOF: is it remotely possible that this interferes with the utouch bits?
[07:38] <pitti> they certainly generate events, don't they?
[07:38] <RAOF> They do, but they generate special gesture events.
[07:45] <pitti> Rejected:
[07:45] <pitti> udev_163-1.dsc: format '1.0' is not permitted in natty.
[07:46] <pitti> ??
[07:46] <pitti> wgrant: ^ what does that want to tell me?
[07:46] <\sh> woot?
[07:46] <wgrant> pitti: natty isn't initialised yet.
[07:46] <pitti> and I was so close to claiming the "first natty upload" trophy
[07:46] <pitti> wgrant: ah, ok :)
[07:47] <\sh> phew...I thought we had to transform all 1.0 src format pkgs into 3.0 ;)
[07:47] <wgrant> What it actually means is that source format 1.0 is forbidden (as are 3.0 (native) and 3.0 (quilt)).
[07:47] <wgrant> Right.
[07:47] <wgrant> Hopefully it will be initialised soon; I'm not sure why it isn't yet.
[07:48] <\sh> wgrant: take you time ;) I need to have time to play with our new toys...I wonder if it's possible to pimp my new RSH5TEPN of Samsung with Ubuntu Unity ;)
[09:44] <apw> pitti, are we safe to start the work items collector for natty now?  i am struggling to find my own blueprints since someone renamed them all for the tracks stuff
[09:44] <pitti> apw: yes, I think we are
[09:44] <pitti> should be a mere copy of maverick.cfg with the trend lines reset and s/maverick/natty/g
[09:46] <apw> pitti, yeah you doing that or shall i
[09:47] <pitti> apw: please do
[09:52] <apw> pitti, ok about to commit the new config, might it be safest to copy everything before the run :)
[09:54] <pitti> apw: "safest" yes, but we already have several copies of the DBs, so it shouldn't be a high risk
[09:55] <apw> pitti, ok pushed
[09:57] <apw> pitti, does the thing run at the top of the hour or the top of the next these days
[09:58] <pitti> 05 */2 * * *
[09:58] <pitti> so, should run in 7 minutes
[09:58] <apw> in UTC ?
[09:58] <pitti> BST
[09:58] <apw> ahh good
[09:58] <pitti> platform@lillypilly:~$ date
[09:58] <jackyalcine> hello?
[09:58] <pitti> Mon Oct 11 09:58:33 BST 2010
[10:03] <apw> skaet, i assume the archive is still frozen ?
[10:03] <wgrant> The archive doesn't exist yet.
[10:04] <skaet> apw, starting into the tasks today to open up Natty and get us back into development mode.
[10:04] <apw> wgrant, heh well the overall archive does :)  i really mean we are in release freeze
[10:04] <apw> i restored the topic from the most recent set that i could find
[10:05] <apw> but the first stanza is missing :)
[10:06] <apw> skaet, i'll let you figure out what the state of the archive is then :)  and update the topic here
[10:08] <pitti> skaet: (the original idea was that you have the honor of updating /topic to "10.10.10 released!!111!" :) )
[10:08] <jackyalcine> where do i find application development for ubuntu?
[10:10] <skaet> pitti,  It was Robbie's release, so it only seemed fair for him to have the honors - 'sides I was head's down focusing on UEC images at the time.  ;)
[10:11]  * skaet is slow this morning.... just notice the topic in this forum...   heh
[10:12] <apw> skaet, we only noticed cause someone typed int he wrong place and it became 'hmmm' for a bit
[10:12] <skaet> pitti, apw, -  ok, lets see if the permissions let me...  robbie's on a plane today.
[10:19] <jackyalcine> ??
[10:19] <jackyalcine> no one's answering my question.
[10:20] <pitti> jackyalcine: that's because it's way too unspecific
[10:21] <dholbach> you could try #ubuntu-app-devel
[10:35] <zooko> Dear Ubuntu devs: way to go on Maverick! Thank you!
[10:39] <apw> pitti, it looks like all-projects does not make the output directory before trying to fill it, but i didn't get the error messages to me, am i on the wrong list ?
[10:40] <pitti> cp: cannot create regular file `/home/platform/public_html/workitems/natty/natty.db.new': No such file or directory
[10:40] <pitti> ah, indeed
[10:40] <pitti> apw: To: martin.pitt@ubuntu.com, work-items-tracker-hackers@lists.launchpad.net
[10:40] <pitti> apw: but I only got the PM, too
[10:40] <pitti> perhaps it takes a while to get through the filter
[10:40] <apw> and its not in the archive either
[10:40] <pitti> hm, I guess we could actually shelve maverick.cfg now
[10:41] <pitti> mkdir'ed
[10:44] <apw> pitti, yeah i was wondering, i suspect we can definatly stop maverick after tommorrow -- dunno if there are items which may close now the release is out and we want hoovered up
[10:44] <pitti> right, there might still be some cleanup actions left
[10:49] <apw> pitti, oh and it seems to take less than an hour, indeed less than half on its 'not at midnight' configuration
[10:51] <pitti> apw: ah, presumably because all milestones are in the past now, so it wouldn't actually update any chart any more
[10:51] <pitti> (for maverick)
[10:51] <apw> pitti, ahh good point :)
[10:51] <apw> pitti, i don't see any emails other than your test on the lists the errors are meant to go to
[10:54] <graviti> ?
[10:54] <pitti> apw: hm, then perhaps lillypilly can't send there, or platform@lillypilly isn't allowed to post
[11:29] <macno> I found a broken mirror of http://releases.ubuntu.com mirror.anl.gov
[11:29] <macno> where's the right place to report it?
[11:30] <persia> macno, To the mirror.anl.gov administrators.
[11:30]  * persia hunts to see if there is handy contact info
[11:32] <dholbach> mirrors at ubuntu.com afaik
[11:32] <macno> ok, found an email address. mailing them
[11:32] <persia> https://launchpad.net/~argonne-mirror/+members seem to be the folks.
[12:09] <shadeslayer> pitti: ill need sponsorship, also, ill need to package newer versions since upstream wants to ship latest versions
[13:13] <pitti> hah! so I can claim the first natty upload after all: https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/natty/+queue?queue_state=1&queue_text=
[13:13] <shadeslayer> oooh
[13:14] <shadeslayer> pitti: ok i need confirmation, can we upload choqok 0.9.90 and qoauth 1.0.1 to lucid-proposed?
[13:14] <pitti> shadeslayer: please do
[13:14] <shadeslayer> maverick has 0.9.85 and qoauth 1.0
[13:15] <pitti>     cur.execute('''CREATE INDEX work_items_assignee_milestone_idx on work_items(assignee,milestone)''')
[13:15] <pitti> sqlite3.OperationalError: index work_items_assignee_milestone_idx already exists
[13:15] <shadeslayer> ( ill then ask for a  upload of 0.9.90 and qoauth 1.0.1 to backports )
[13:15] <pitti> collect failed for ./config/natty.cfg
[13:15] <pitti> shadeslayer: oh, hang on; I thought you meant the maverick versions
[13:15] <shadeslayer> no :)
[13:15] <shadeslayer> thats why i need confirmation
[13:15] <pitti> shadeslayer: then we need maverick SRUs at the same time
[13:15] <pitti> but it might be easier to do it in two steps
[13:15] <pitti> (for verification)
[13:15] <pitti> apw: ^ see WI tracker error above; did yuo perhaps ^C a run, or so?
[13:15] <pitti> looks strange
[13:16] <pitti> apw: perhaps we should kill the natty db and start over?
[13:16] <shadeslayer> pitti: well, do you think theyll survive SRU's ?
[13:17] <shadeslayer> choqok and qoauth that is
[13:17] <shadeslayer> ( for maverick )
[13:17] <pitti> can't say without at least seeing a changelog and a rationale
[13:17] <pitti> if maverick's versions work, then it's safer and easier to bakcport them, than trying to lift two releases to new versions
[13:17] <shadeslayer> well, for rationale i just have "Upstream says so" :P
[13:17] <shadeslayer> thats what im thinking
[13:18] <pitti> cjwatson: if you have a minute, would you mind reviewing bug 653568 for SRU?
[13:18] <shadeslayer> ok so i put maverick versions into lucid and then maverick-backport for new versions of choqok and qoauth?
[13:20] <Riddell> ok, keep it simple then, go with what we have in maverick for lucid-proposed
[13:20] <Riddell> and new versions in maverick-backports
[13:20] <Riddell> (unless we know of a good reason to update the maverick version)
[13:21] <shadeslayer> right then ...
[13:22] <shadeslayer> Riddell: https://launchpad.net/~rohangarg/+archive/experimental/+packages?field.name_filter=&field.status_filter=published&field.series_filter=lucid : qoauth and choqok packages from there
[13:22] <pitti> apw: I'll try that now
[13:22] <Riddell> shadeslayer: ok
[13:22] <shadeslayer> thanks :)
[13:29] <cjwatson> skaet: did updating the topic here not work for you then?
[13:33] <cjwatson> pitti: udev> dodne
[13:33] <cjwatson> done
[13:33] <pitti> cjwatson: cheers
[13:46] <cjwatson> lool: hm, these error handling patches you merged into MoM are entirely broken :-(
[13:47] <cjwatson> can't have been tested
[13:48] <pitti> uh, we open a new release, and no debhelper to merge -- must be Debian freeze :)
[13:49] <lool> cjwatson: these https://code.launchpad.net/~kgoetz/merge-o-matic/mom-misc/+merge/20202 ?
[13:50] <lool> hmm no the previous one I guess
[13:51] <cjwatson> surprisingly, exit does seem to exist at top level, but is undocumented.  I think using it is probably bad style
[13:51] <cjwatson> the bit that's actually broken is a finally handler.  fixing up ...
[13:51] <lool> cjwatson: Reading the diff, I can see why they are bogus now
[13:51] <lool> the open change seems broken too
[13:52] <lool> I'm trying to find the merge request
[13:52] <cjwatson> lool: which one?
[13:52] <cjwatson> (which open change)
[13:54] <lool> cjwatson: No sorry, checked trunk and it's ok
[13:54] <cjwatson> ok, I committed fixes as r176 and r177, please double-check?
[13:54] <lool> I couldn't find the bug or merge request where I thought we discussed this
[13:54] <cjwatson> oh, also, those exception prints should go to stderr not stdout, fixing
[13:54] <lool> I remember *not* running merge-o-matic, I only did a patch level review, but I thought I had asked whether he had tested this
[13:54] <lool> I wonder if this was over email
[13:55] <cjwatson> I must say I don't understand the point of an exception handler that just prints the exception and exits
[13:55] <cjwatson> all that does is suppress the traceback
[13:55] <cjwatson> which makes it harder to debug problems
[13:56] <lool> cjwatson: I agree
[13:56] <cjwatson> I suppose if we know what the problem is ...
[13:56] <lool> cjwatson: Looked at r177 and 176, looks fine; sorry about that
[13:57] <lool> I just can't find where I discussed this branch; it seems there was no merge request for the branch, so it seems like a lesson that I should keep more references in my commits and ensure there's a merge request or a bug to track changes
[13:58] <mvo> doko: can you have a look at bug #657937 please? I suspect this guy is having a local build libc6 leftover, but if not it might be something serious
[14:00] <doko> mvo: not seen before
[14:06] <mvo> doko: ok, I (strongly) suspect a user problem then
[14:07] <dholbach> highvoltage, ~ubuntu-dev is indirect member of edubuntu-bugs (Ubuntu Core Development Team → Edubuntu Developers → Edubuntu Bugsquad), that's currently why bug mail for edubuntu-bugs goes to ubuntu-reviews@list.u.c (https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-reviews/2010-October/000707.html) - can we change this somehow?
[14:08] <mvo> jibel: it seems the -fsystafile exit 2 error is not that uncommon (just looking over the upgrade logs). do you know more about this yet?
[14:08] <mvo> jibel: huge THANKS btw for your triage effort :)
[14:09] <jibel> mvo, hey, great release !
[14:10] <jibel> mvo, most of the time the archive is corrupted for some reason and simply cleaning the cache and reupgrading is enough. The problem is 'some reason'
[14:10] <jibel> mvo, I haven"t been able to reproduce it
[14:13] <mvo> jibel: ok, thanks. I keep wondering if I should add a additional checksum step after writing the data to disk. currently its checksumming the data arriving from the network, but not if what is written to disk matches as well. this opens up this type of issues I suppose (typically bit flip errors afaict)
[14:13] <jibel> mvo, The only way I've been able to reproduce the problem was to download the archive, then corrupt it by hand before running the unpack stage, this very looks like a hw error.
[14:13]  * mvo nods
[14:13] <mvo> thanks jibel
[14:14] <jibel> mvo, btw we have 3 main upgrade issues but which I think are non issues.
[14:15] <jibel> mvo bug 639933
[14:15] <jibel> This is caused by a package in kubuntu-ppa/backport. I don't know which.
[14:15] <jibel> bug 631426
[14:16] <jibel> This one is weird, and looks like a problem to access the servers for users in india.
[14:16] <jibel> bug 555729
[14:16] <jibel> Users complaining that blcr is blacklisted.
[14:17] <jibel> mvo, and that's all for update-manager release upgrades bugs.
[14:21] <mvo> jibel: thanks, that looks pretty good actually, I had no luck so far with the first one, but I can give it a fresh try, my brain is much recovered since last week :)
[14:22] <apw> pitti, sorry was out dropping off the last team member to the plane
[14:23] <apw> pitti, did that sort it out, i don't think i have access to hit ^c on a run
[14:24] <pitti> apw: sure, it's all under ~platform now
[14:24] <pitti> apw: but let's see; didn't get another error yet
[14:24] <jibel> mvo, I installed kubuntu and all the packages from backport, it will be finished in a few minutes. There's also a possibility that an obsolete kubuntu package is blocking the upgrade.
[14:26] <apw> pitti, i believe the first time it ran there were no milestones for natty which might have been the issue, cjw sorted that out before the later runs
[14:31] <ScottK> pitti: I have a SRU question - I've got a pending microversion update for clamav in lucid-proposed (same as current Maverick).  This has a regression that I'm about to upload an SRU for to Maverick.  Can I go ahead and update the clamav in lucid-proposed or should I wait for the Maverick SRU I'm about to upload get verified first?
[14:31] <pitti> ScottK: not for my sake; please upload fixes for both
[14:31] <ScottK> OK.  Will do.
[14:31] <ScottK> Just hit dput on maverick-proposed.  I'll update lucid proposed next.
[14:33] <GPenguin> lets say i notice a significant performance problem with "GtkTextView - Add text" within Ubuntu releases, then where would i go to find some support in investigating this further?
[14:34] <GPenguin> e.g. a benchmark for 1000 cycles takes 100 seconds compared to other systems with 20 to 40 seconds
[14:38] <GPenguin> might explain why applications like synaptics are so sluggy
[14:39] <GPenguin> but i dont know enough to research this on my own
[14:40] <ScottK> GPenguin: You might have more luck in #ubuntu-desktop.
[14:41] <GPenguin> ScottK: is that not just a copy of #ubuntu where you consume a lot of replies that lead nowhere?
[14:41] <ScottK> GPenguin: That's a development channel, not a user channel.
[14:41] <GPenguin> ah, ok
[14:46] <ScottK> pitti: clamav in queue for maverick and lucid-proposed
[14:47] <jibel> mvo, I can't reproduce 639933 with all of kubuntu-ppa/backport installed. I'll compare the held packages of each report ... but later
[14:47] <dholbach> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuOpenWeek starting in 13 minutes in #ubuntu-classroom
[14:48] <Riddell> thanks for testing jibel
[14:48] <mvo> jibel: many thanks
[14:51] <ari-tczew> natty pocket has been opened \o/
[15:19] <highvoltage> dholbach: eek, yes we can
[15:19] <dholbach> thanks highvoltage
[15:23] <doko> pitti: please copy eglibc from -proposed to natty. I don't plan an eglibc upload for natty
[15:27] <cjwatson> ari-tczew: will be a little while longer before it's open to general uploads though - need to get the toolchain in place first
[15:28] <cjwatson> doko: I can do that if you like
[15:29] <ari-tczew> cjwatson: oh, nice if you do this faster :)
[15:30] <cjwatson> doko: done
[15:30] <cjwatson> ari-tczew: faster than ...?
[15:31] <ari-tczew> cjwatson: ah, misunderstood from my side. I thought that you are going to prepare toolchain, so I thought that you will do this faster than doko.
[15:31] <cjwatson> oh, no, doko is doing that, I'm just driving the archive
[15:31] <cjwatson> gcc-defaults and binutils are already in place, so I would have a hard time doing it faster ;-)
[15:36] <pitti> doko: ah, cjwatson beat me to it
[15:36] <Book_em_Dano> I've been working on patching a package, LP: #640755, and came across a couple of errors while lintian was running.  I was wondering if someone could expound on the errors and what I need to do to fix them.
[15:37] <Book_em_Dano> the errors are: E: gdecrypt_0.7.2.2-0ubuntu6_source.changes: bad-ubuntu-distribution-in-changes-file maverick
[15:37] <Book_em_Dano> W: gdecrypt source: newer-standards-version 3.9.0 (current is 3.8.4)
[15:37] <OdyX> Book_em_Dano: update your lintian
[15:39] <Book_em_Dano> I'm using the lastest version of lintian in karmic; I'm trying to patch a package for use in maverick
[15:39] <pitti> cjwatson: I assume it was that which caused bug 655463 to be closed in maverick, i. e. we'll reopen?
[15:40] <cjwatson> pitti: oh, yes, please do.  the natty task should be closed though
[15:40] <cjwatson> Book_em_Dano: just ignore those
[15:41] <pitti> cjwatson: ack
[15:41] <cjwatson> Book_em_Dano: those are essentially "lack of time-travel to tell lintian's karmic about newer things"
[15:41] <cjwatson> er, karmic's lintian
[15:41] <cjwatson> Book_em_Dano: to get more information about any lintian message, run 'lintian-info' and copy-and-paste the line you're confused about into it
[16:25] <ogasawara> pitti: Re: https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bug/647071/comments/11 , are you seeing this on an i386 or amd64 box?  3 patches touch the i915 driver so I can build you a test kernel with those reverted to see if they are the culprit.
[16:26] <pitti> ogasawara: actually I haven't seen it for a few hours now, so don't worry too much about it for now
[16:26] <pitti> ogasawara: I'm on amd64
[16:27] <ogasawara> pitti: ok, I'll build you a test kernel anyways in case it returns.  How often was it happening at first?
[16:27] <pitti> ogasawara: if I'm able to reproduce, I'll boot with drm.debug=0x02 (or whatever that was called like)
[16:27] <pitti> ogasawara: I saw it flicker about 3 or 4 times
[16:27] <pitti> with perhaps a minute or two in between
[16:27] <pitti> I'm not sure why it only happened back then
[16:27] <pitti> I had kvm open, that was the primary difference to what I have now
[16:43] <achiang> superm1: i wanted to follow-up on https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/dkms/+bug/655275
[17:05] <hyperair> dpkg: version '/etc/ufw/applications.d' has bad syntax: invalid character in version number
[17:05] <hyperair> interesting error message there
[17:05]  * hyperair assumes dpkg --compare-version /etc/ufw/applications.d or something
[17:09] <brendan0powers> Would I ask about creating an ubuntu derivitave here?
[17:14] <cjwatson> brendan0powers: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DerivativeTeam/Derivatives has various information, including contacts under "Getting Involved"
[17:17] <cjwatson> lool: I'm just going to revert these error handling changes, sorry.  I've already had my first instance of an error message I couldn't debug because it was just bare exception text with no context
[17:19] <brendan0powers> cjwatson: thanks!
[17:23] <lool> cjwatson: It makes sense to me; sorry for the hassle
[17:23] <achiang> is update-manager the only truly supported way to move from LTS to LTS? (hardy to lucid), or can you just s/hard/lucid/ in your sources.list, and then do apt-get update ; apt-get dist-upgrade?
[17:23] <lool> cjwatson: I didn't care about the changes, I think I got to them because they were in the ~ubuntu-core-dev review queue at some point
[17:24] <cjwatson> achiang: you can certainly try the latter, and in many cases if things fail that way it's still a bug; but you may have to explicitly resolve some problems by hand.  We recommend update-manager essentially because it saves us writing out release notes that say "first run 'apt-get install dpkg apt', then ..."
[17:24] <cjwatson> (I'm oversimplifying a great deal here)
[17:25] <achiang> ta
[17:43] <jdstrand> hyperair: that sounds like bug #618410
[17:44] <hyperair> hmm
[17:44] <hyperair> i can't look at it at the moment though
[17:44]  * jdstrand either
[17:44] <hyperair> my dear browsers have been knocked out of commission by massive i/o generated by dpkg.
[18:04] <pitti> kees: ah, I can do the pocket copying of the kernel for you if needed; so we need to sync that with the USN publication?
[18:18] <bilalakhtar> Natty is open?
[18:20] <cjwatson> no
[18:20] <shadeslayer> bilalakhtar: toolchain is being uploaded
[18:20] <cjwatson> it exists, and the toolchain is being prepared
[18:20] <bilalakhtar> ah
[18:20] <cjwatson> an announcement will be sent when it's open
[18:20] <bilalakhtar> So it should be open by Friday, right?
[18:21] <shadeslayer> cjwatson: is it this fast ever release ?
[18:21] <shadeslayer> like .. 10.10 was just released
[18:21] <nigelb> bilalakhtar: relax :p
[18:21] <shadeslayer> *every
[18:21] <bilalakhtar> nigelb: I am addicted to development :)
[18:21] <nigelb> hrm, better 'Don't Panic'
[18:21] <cjwatson> shadeslayer: it's usually pretty fast nowadays, though it can take time to get the toolchain built and such
[18:21] <shadeslayer> bilalakhtar: dont worry, youll get to flex your MOTU muscles :>
[18:22] <shadeslayer> cjwatson: ah ok
[18:22] <cjwatson> shadeslayer: for certainly at least the last several releases, we've started this open-and-preparing-toolchain phase the day after release
[18:22] <shadeslayer> cjwatson: ah ok .. didnt know
[18:24] <cjwatson> for instance lucid released the Tuesday after karmic release (which was a Thursday)
[18:24] <cjwatson> err
[18:24] <cjwatson> not released, opened :-)
[18:25] <cjwatson> karmic similarly
[18:26] <cjwatson> and in fact the same for jaunty.  so I don't know where this idea that it will take at least a week to open natty (which I've seen repeated several times the last few days) has come from
[18:27] <shadeslayer> right, i can see GCC building for natty :D
[18:27] <shadeslayer> should be done in a few minutes i think
[18:27] <cjwatson> maverick opened nine days after lucid released, but was an aberration in recent history.  I think that was something to do with UDS being the next week so we were busy preparing
[18:28] <cjwatson> shadeslayer: the toolchain is more than just gcc-4.4, particularly as gcc-4.5 will be default for natty
[18:28] <shadeslayer> cjwatson: yes, but gcc is the fundamental block of the toolkit right?
[18:28] <cjwatson> "particularly as gcc-4.5 will be default for natty"
[18:29] <ari-tczew> I remember toolchain issue on maverick start.
[18:29] <cjwatson> what you see building will only be used by a few packages
[18:29] <ari-tczew> Archive open was delayed due to bug in toolchain.
[18:30] <shadeslayer> ok
[18:31] <bilalakhtar> sorry I missed the middle part
[18:32]  * bilalakhtar guesses the discussion
[18:37] <kees> pitti: don't worry about USN publication; given it's a 0-day, I may stick the USN for maverick entirely.
[18:37] <kees> *skip
[19:42]  * BUGabundo secretly wants #ubuntu+1 to reopen.  $ lsb_release -a Ubuntu natty (development branch)
[19:57] <BUGabundo> oh goody.... natty X is awesome.. already frozen twice
[20:01] <ari-tczew> BUGabundo: I don't understand what is awesome in natty? It's the same as maverick at this moment.
[20:03] <BUGabundo> ari-tczew: could be
[20:03] <BUGabundo> with newer glibc
[20:45] <ebroder> Grr. With proprietary drivers turned on, plymouth appears to be able to set a custom 16-color palette, but as soon as the drivers are loaded, they reset the VGA mode to the default palette
[21:25] <ari-tczew> ebroder: bug 653274
[21:51] <ebroder> ari-tczew: I've seen that too. But right now I'm using a custom plymouth theme, and it doesn't seem to fall back on text mode. I get graphics, they're just low color
[21:52] <ebroder> What's weird is that the graphics get rendered with a palette of 16 custom colors, but once udev is activated (I think it's udev - I'm not sure), the splash gets redrawn with the palette of 16 fixed colors
[22:43] <mawst> Hey nice move removing OSS from the kernel while the kernel compile guide hasn't been updated since 9.10.
[22:43] <mawst> Anyone wanna give me a hand adding OSS?
[22:43] <mawst> :D
[22:45] <ScottK> mawst: Support is in #ubuntu.
[22:46] <mawst> Where's the channel to bitch at devs for removing modules?
[22:46] <mawst> :D
[22:48] <crimsun> mawst: Fedora did it ages ago; there's a bug that documents the move; there's a blueprint that links the bug.
[22:49] <mawst> Fedora is anus.
[22:49] <mawst> Many things still work better with or REQUIRE oss.
[22:49] <mawst> padsp isn't the be all end all fix.
[22:49] <ogra_ac> crimsun, !
[22:50] <crimsun> no one said padsp is the be-all end-all.
[22:50] <mawst> So what's the alternative to "welp, you're boned"?
[22:50] <crimsun> the be-all end-all is fixing the damned application to not require OSS.
[22:50] <mawst> haha yeah because linux users can convince commercial devs to do that.
[22:50] <mawst> We can't even convince our devs to not break things.
[22:50] <mawst> *wink*
[22:51] <crimsun> anyhow, I'm afraid we're off-topic here, so if you're requiring snd-*-oss, take a look at the ubuntu-audio-dev PPA, which contains daily builds of linux-alsa-driver-modules that still have the oss compat bits enabled.
[22:51] <highvoltage> mawst: please uphold the Ubuntu Code of Conduct in this channel, or you will be asked to leave
[22:51] <ogra_ac> crimsun, do you have any idea if alsactl store/restore is supposed to call init ?
[22:51] <mawst> You can't fire me I quit!
[22:52] <crimsun> ogra_ac: it can but doesn't according to Debian's and Ubuntu's current config
[22:52] <ogra_ac> and if so, when it calls that (before or after setting the mixers)
[22:52] <mawst> ScottK, are you from netlink?
[22:52] <ogra_ac> crimsun, hmm, k
[22:52] <ogra_ac> crimsun, i have an audio bug where a card only works if i call init explicitly
[22:52] <ogra_ac> and only after the mixers have been set
[22:52] <ogra_ac> i was wondering if i see any kind fo race
[22:55] <crimsun> ogra_ac: well, there are two things that will happen for Natty: firstly, we'll drop calling the crufty initscript from the udev rule (invokes alsactl -I restore; the -I bypasses calling init); secondly, we're going to migrate as many of the quirks over to the init database.
[22:55] <ogra_ac> crimsun, bug 637947
[22:56] <ogra_ac> well, i currently care for maverick i want to SRU a fix
[22:56] <ogra_ac> so we'll have more suerspace control in natty ?
[22:56] <ogra_ac> great
[22:56] <ogra_ac> *userspace
[22:59] <mawst> Wouldn't installing oss4 via synaptic add it to the kernel?
[23:00] <crimsun> ogra_ac: hum.  I'm pretty sure you're also being bitten by the alsa-lib regression, too (for which I'm preparing an SRU candidate now); see bug #652035
[23:00] <ogra_ac> hmm
[23:00] <crimsun> ogra_ac: specifically the part about non-existent alsa card configurations leading to the bug you're seeing
[23:00] <ogra_ac> we'll have a meeting tomorrow at 15:00 UTC with the omap4 alsa driver dev and ASoC upstream, i'll bring that up
[23:01] <ogra_ac> if you feel like participating, we'll meet in #ubuntu-arm
[23:01] <crimsun> ogra_ac: there's already a candidate set of debs in my ppa if you want to test, and the reporter has confirmed the fix for his hardware
[23:01] <ogra_ac> oh, sweet
[23:01] <ogra_ac> yes, i'll test that tomorrow
[23:01] <crimsun> ogra_ac: would love to but it's during my work hours :/
[23:02] <ogra_ac> understood, i'll test the fix tomorrow if my boards are set up again (i just returned from dallas and am still sorting things)
[23:03]  * ogra_ac puts a cross reference in his bug
[23:03] <stgraber> ogra_ac: enjoying transatlantic flights that much that you want 4 in the same month ? :)
[23:04] <ogra_ac> stgraber, haha
[23:04] <ogra_ac> yeah
[23:04] <ogra_ac> collecting miles !
[23:04] <highvoltage> heh
[23:05] <stgraber> ogra_ac: btw, did you book your flight to Bangor ?
[23:06] <ogra_ac> stgraber, ugh, no, still not, will have to do that tomorrow first thing
[23:07] <ogra_ac> to much stuff going on in my life
[23:08] <stgraber> ok :) let me know when you know what time you'll be landing
[23:08] <ogra_ac> yeah, worst case i can afford a rental car for the few days
[23:51] <George_e> Hey, I just wanted to thank everyone for making 10.10 a huge success - I love the new look!