[01:15] <TheMuso> AlanBell: Problem with that is X. I have heard of many reports where people try to boot headless/no monitor connected, and X refuses to load due to no monitor.
[01:20] <JanC> X should start if you make it use the 'dummy' video driver I assume
[01:22] <paul_h1> hard to make it do that if you've got no monitor
[01:36] <JanC> I guess it could be a fallback option if X refuses to start?  although, that would probably not be a good idea for most use cases...  ;)
[01:36] <JanC> maybe a boot option
[01:41] <paul_h1> I don't know the origin of this thread. my point is that as someone who can't see: it's hard to know when to specify boot options when the CD is booting
[01:56] <TheMuso> paul_h1: AlanBell suggested that if you start the live CD without a monitor, an audio/screen reader instal is run by default...
[01:59] <paul_h1> TheMuso: what? since when?
[01:59] <TheMuso> AlanBell: It was just a suggestion.
[01:59] <TheMuso> paul_h1: ^^ sorry meant you
[02:01] <paul_h1> TheMuso: oh with you...
[10:41] <Pendulum> AlanBell: poke
[10:42] <AlanBell> hi Pendulum 
[10:43] <Pendulum> you haven't done your Maverick attempt, right?
[10:43] <AlanBell> no, not yet
[10:43] <Pendulum> Fudge: AlanBell is the person who wrote the wonderful ranty Lucid install guide ;-)
[10:43] <nigelb> haha
[10:43] <AlanBell> ranty!!
[10:43] <Pendulum> AlanBell: It was a polite rant
[10:43] <AlanBell> I expect the Maverick one will be tbh
[10:44] <AlanBell> hi Fudge o/
[10:47] <Fudge> hi AlanBell  it was a good read mate, nice post
[10:48] <Fudge> im trying to do the accessible install now but the steps have changed
[10:48] <Fudge> well, i think they have
[10:48] <AlanBell> yes, I think the installer has changed quite a bit
[10:49] <AlanBell> I was planning to do a keystroke by keystroke guide to the installer sometime soon
[10:49] <Fudge> any idea where i could find out whats changed?
[10:49] <AlanBell> didn't want to start it until the final CD was released
[10:49] <Fudge> you are sighted?
[10:50] <AlanBell> yes, I am
[10:50] <Fudge> ah that would be very helpful
[10:50] <Fudge> uve grabbed the iso already>
[10:51] <AlanBell> I have the final ISO
[10:51] <AlanBell> I will probably go through it tomorrow evening I think
[10:51] <Fudge> dont guess u have some time now to take a squiz at it
[10:51] <Fudge> ah, understood
[10:51] <Fudge> its approaching 0pm here 
[10:51] <Fudge> 9
[11:01] <AlanBell> I need to rearrange some hard disks in computers first
[11:25] <AlanBell> actually I will have a runthrough in a virtual machine before I try it on real hardware
[11:28] <AlanBell> oh wow, that is rubbish
[11:31] <AlanBell> I will have to rethink how to do this blog post
[12:10] <Pendulum> AlanBell: that bad?
[12:12] <AlanBell> yeah
[12:15] <Pendulum> :(
[12:16] <AlanBell> I think I may do a video of it with audio if I can
[12:16] <AlanBell> do a screencast of the install in a vm
[12:16] <Pendulum> :)
[12:16] <AlanBell> and do the same with Lucid to compare the two
[12:16] <Pendulum> let me know if you want me to do captions. I should be typing-good soonish
[12:17] <AlanBell> getting some silver rings?
[12:17] <Pendulum> I get fitted on Friday!
[12:17] <AlanBell> yay
[12:17] <AlanBell> pics plz :)
[12:17] <Pendulum> then it depends on the insurance fight for how quickly it happens
[15:11] <AlanBell> I am working on getting http://moinmo.in/ThemeMarket/SimpleMente installed on wiki.ubuntu.com
[15:11] <AlanBell> it is a moin wiki theme with improved support for screenreaders
[15:11] <AlanBell> might not be perfect, but it seems to be a sound base for improving upon
[15:12] <charlie-tca> :-)
[18:15] <AlanBell> good luck with the openweek session charlie-tca, I will miss it live, but will catch the logs
[18:15] <charlie-tca> Thanks. I will do my best
[22:59] <Fudge> hi all
[22:59] <Fudge> AlanBell  how bad is it loL
[22:59] <AlanBell> hi Fudge, it is totally silent :(
[23:00] <AlanBell> absolutely no way I could figure it out without seeing it
[23:05] <Fudge> are the accessibility steps still in the installer?
[23:05] <AlanBell> kind of
[23:06] <Fudge> i tried to boot it normally last night by just letting it load and it still didnt come to the party
[23:06] <Fudge> as when you setup orca i assume tha tyou can still restart gnome to enable the accessibility profile
[23:06] <AlanBell> you press space after a bit, then F5 then down 3 times (I think it is 3)
[23:07] <Fudge> so u dont have to choose a language now?
[23:07] <AlanBell> then it boots with orca, but orca can't see the installer dialog or any contents
[23:07] <AlanBell> oh, sorry, yes the language question first
[23:07] <Fudge> so i was trying to push the number 3 and enter
[23:07] <AlanBell> one sec, let me fire up the VM again
[23:07] <Fudge> no worries
[23:08] <Fudge> i wish i could just ssh -X to the box once installing ssh to the live cd and install over an X session 
[23:08] <Fudge> but when ever ive tried things like that orca says inaccessible
[23:08] <AlanBell> ok, turn on, hit space
[23:08] <AlanBell> asking me for language so I hit return to select English
[23:09] <AlanBell> F5 for accessibility menu
[23:09] <AlanBell> down 3 times for Screen Reader
[23:10] <AlanBell> enter again to try Ubuntu without installing (it would be down+enter to go to the installer rather than to the desktop)
[23:10] <AlanBell> jungle drums
[23:11] <AlanBell> welcome to Orca
[23:11] <Fudge> ok im at that step
[23:11] <AlanBell> (which I think should be welcome to Ubuntu)
[23:11] <Fudge> yes true
[23:11] <Fudge> your post was interesting from a headless install
[23:12] <AlanBell> one thing I want to do is show how accessible technology is dead handy for everyone
[23:12] <Fudge> i think orca at gdm login is really good for small children
[23:12] <AlanBell> and get more people interested in it, and fixing bugs with it
[23:12] <paul_h1> AlanBell: Orca is saying that it is starting. it isn't just Ubuntu's screen reader
[23:12] <AlanBell> excellent point
[23:12] <Fudge> see my cd has stopped spinning now with no desktop
[23:13] <AlanBell> paul_h1: yes, I understand that, I just think on first boot of the live CD it should read out some useful text, starting with welcome to Ubuntu
[23:13] <AlanBell> then explain what Orca is
[23:13] <AlanBell> Fudge: you have a monitor plugged in?
[23:13] <Fudge> you said arrow down three times, as in to the fourth option?
[23:13] <Fudge> yes
[23:14] <AlanBell> correct
[23:14] <Fudge> although this box works headless with no X issues anyhow
[23:15] <AlanBell> the options are: None, High Contrast, Magnifier, Screen Reader, Braille Terminal, Keyboard Modifiers, On-Screen Keyboard
[23:15] <Fudge> i dont understand why none needs to be there
[23:15] <AlanBell> quite how you are supposed to select the On-Screen Keyboard option without actually having a real keyboard is a mystery
[23:15] <Fudge> loL
[23:15] <Fudge> mouse?
[23:16] <AlanBell> no, you can't use a mouse at this point of the installer
[23:16] <Fudge> once hitting space i see a bright screen with a light coloured background
[23:17] <AlanBell> is that right at the start of the process?
[23:17] <Fudge> yes
[23:18] <AlanBell> you might be looking at the list of languages then
[23:18] <AlanBell> it is getting late here, I am going to have to leave it for tonight
[23:19] <AlanBell> night all o/
[23:19] <Fudge> thanks mate
[23:19] <Fudge> its morning here lol
[23:20] <AlanBell> Fudge: what country are you in?
[23:20] <Fudge> australia
[23:20] <Fudge> state of tasmania
[23:20] <AlanBell> nice
[23:20] <dutchie> i know people from tasmania!
[23:21]  * AlanBell is in the UK
[23:21] <Fudge> mm i seem to be stuck in some prompt where arrowing around produces a pc speaker beep
[23:21] <Fudge> ah 10 hours ahead
[23:21] <Fudge> blind ppl dutchie ?
[23:21] <dutchie> Fudge: no, rowing people
[23:21] <Fudge> an X of mine used to row
[23:21] <Fudge> alot of nice ppl in volved in the sport
[23:21] <dutchie> (not that the things are mutually exclusive)
[23:22]  * dutchie goes back to calculus
[23:22] <Fudge> joy :p
[23:23] <AlanBell> Fudge: you could ask in #ubuntu-au for someone to walk through the install with you
[23:23] <dutchie> well, i did ask for it by studying maths at university
[23:23] <Fudge> wow dutchie 
[23:23] <Fudge> AlanBell  ill prob wait for a mate to come round but thanks for suggestion
[23:25] <paul_h1> Fudge: which version of ubuntu are you trying to install? if it's Maverick you have no chance if you rely on Orca speech. I recommend you install Lucid then do a distro upgrade to Maverick
[23:26] <Fudge> i did try that nad it failed miserably lol
[23:26] <Fudge> its no biggy im just trying to take a peak at the new changes in it since alpha3 when i used it for a bit on my cli box
[23:38] <TheMuso> I don't think "welcome to..." is what should be said. "Orca is ready" is beter.
[23:38] <TheMuso> better
[23:42] <Fudge> howdy
[23:43] <paul_h1> TheMuso: probably, but it's splitting hairs a bit...
[23:46] <TheMuso> How so?
[23:47] <paul_h1> well I just mean that 'orca is ready' or 'welcome to orca' ... doesn't really matter. so long as you know it's running
[23:47] <Fudge> i think orca shoudl automatically unmute volume control if its muted
[23:52] <TheMuso> Fudge: No, orca should not touch volume at all, period.
[23:52] <TheMuso> paul_h1: Right, but welcome to orca sounds weird, contextually.
[23:52] <TheMuso> To me anyway.
[23:53] <paul_h1> TheMuso: sure, I agree. just saying it's not that important + agree totally on volume issue
[23:54] <TheMuso> Yeah I see your point.