/srv/irclogs.ubuntu.com/2010/10/12/#ubuntu-desktop.txt

TheMusochrisccoulson: Are the bugs ready to go SRU wise?00:09
TheMusoWoo! Natty is having its toolchain prepared.01:02
hyperairpitti: Bug #652855 now has a test case and rationale.03:04
ubot2Launchpad bug 652855 in libgpod (Ubuntu Maverick) (and 1 other project) "Please fakesync libgpod 0.7.95-1 from Debian experimental to maverick-updates (affects: 1) (heat: 10)" [Undecided,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/65285503:04
=== almaisan-away is now known as al-maisan
pittiGood morning07:40
pittihyperair: ah, good07:40
* pitti will do the morning SRU round then :)07:40
hyperairthanks =)07:42
hyperairpitti: just got the accepted mail. thanks!08:29
pittino problem08:29
didrocksgood morning08:40
didrockspitti: Guten Morgen, thanks for the approval :)08:41
pittihey didrocks, yw08:41
pittiI'll watch NEW08:41
pittiit should only be NEW on i38608:41
didrocksright08:41
didrockshow are you, btw?08:42
pittiI'm great, thanks!08:42
* pitti crossed the "1000 pushups" mark last night :)08:42
didrocksoh really? I'll only cross the 900 today :-)08:43
didrockscongrats in any case :-)08:44
* pitti updates the wiki08:44
pitti900 is great!08:44
pittiI primarily keep the count on a sheet of paper on my wall08:44
pittiso I'm sloppy with wiki updates08:44
didrockshehe :-) I'm keeping it into my head rather, as I try to do everytime the same number (30/30/30/15) each day08:45
didrocksadding more and more with the time :)08:45
pittididrocks: n-l NEWed08:46
didrockspitti: thank! I think I can have a test at it, will that enable pushing it to -updates sooner? (I think that most of people upgrading without ubuntu-netbook installed and having this issue will be this week)08:48
pittididrocks: yes, if you can confirm that the debs from the archive still work, and perhaps test an upgrade in that scenario (chroot/pbuilder will do), we can push it out soon08:48
didrockspitti: ok, I'm preparing a chroot, thanks :)08:49
pittididrocks: it's not published yet08:51
didrockspitti: I'll monitor the publisher or pick from launchpad directly. The time to prepare my lucid chroot will take time already :)08:52
pittichrisccoulson: good morning09:40
pittichrisccoulson: need a sponsor for bug 625793?09:40
ubot2Launchpad bug 625793 in gnome-settings-daemon (Ubuntu Maverick) (and 4 other projects) "Regression: Multiple Keyboard Layouts unusable: continuously changes layout + 100% CPU usage [updated] (affects: 266) (dups: 23) (heat: 1240)" [Critical,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/62579309:40
seb128slomo, hey09:44
seb128did you try to build gtk3 from the debian svn?09:44
slomosjoerd did, apparently it works :) i've installed his packages09:44
slomobut you need glib 2.27 :P09:45
seb128right, I've that installed in a ppa there09:45
seb128but the static build fails for me on some missing include09:45
seb128I've commented the static build for now09:45
seb128it's somewhat useless and wins a build which is nice when you rebuild several times gtk09:46
seb128chrisccoulson, I though you had upload rights for gsd09:46
seb128is it broken now?09:46
slomoseb128: no idea, ask sjoerd what he did ;)09:50
=== DrPepperKid is now known as MacSlow
=== al-maisan is now known as almaisan-away
seb128https://edge.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-desktop/+archive/gnome3-builds10:59
seb128^ there is a first gtk3 build there10:59
seb128or rather it's building10:59
seb128could be useful for those who want to start porting code10:59
chrisccoulsonhi seb12811:01
seb128hey chrisccoulson11:01
chrisccoulsoni don't think i've ever had upload rights for g-s-d11:01
chrisccoulsonlet me check ;)11:01
seb128hum ok11:02
seb128I'm wondering why, that seems pretty desktopish, are other derivative using g-s-d?11:02
chrisccoulsonseb128 - oh, you're right, i do!11:03
chrisccoulsoni never used to though11:03
seb128lol11:03
chrisccoulsonok, i'll upload my fix to maverick-proposed11:03
seb128thanks11:03
seb128that's a very noisy bug11:03
didrockslet me guess… the "switch layout" one? :)11:04
chrisccoulsondidrocks, yeah, that's the one11:04
didrockswon \o/11:04
chrisccoulsonit's pretty much a 1 liner to fix that, but i've also fixed a memory error too11:04
didrockschrisccoulson: oh great! :)11:05
seb128chrisccoulson is made of awesome11:05
chrisccoulson:)11:05
* didrocks hugs chrisccoulson11:06
* chrisccoulson hugs didrocks11:06
didrocksgreat work on bug fixing :)11:06
chrisccoulsonheh, firefox 4 is going to ship with Bing in the list of search engines11:31
chrisccoulsonhttp://blog.mozilla.com/blog/2010/10/06/refreshing-the-firefox-search-bar/11:31
seif_mvo, mpt I want to wrtie the article to cal lfor developers to work on Software-Center + Zeitgeist integration11:31
seif_it will help new developers look into zeitgeist as well as s-c11:32
seif_therefore we need ideas11:32
mptseif_, great11:32
seif_3 things we would like ot have S-C d owiht Zeitgeist11:32
seif_the article will be on pgo and ubuntu11:32
seif_as well as omgubuntu11:32
mvoseif_: I'm about to leave for lunch, but I think that this is a good idea, the zeitgeist stuff opens up whole new capabilities11:35
mvoseif_: a brainstorm of ideas would be good too, I'm sure people will come up with lots of creative ideas11:36
* mvo is really at lunch now and will read scrollback11:36
seif_mpt and mvo ok so i will call for brainstorming in comments11:39
seif_then we can choose the best 3 and actually provide mentorship for them11:39
seif_i am ready to provide mentroship11:40
didrocksseif_: just being curious, what's the 3 things you want to achieve on your personal list? :-)11:40
Cimiseb128: any good news on the gtk+ 3.0 front? ;) still thrilled :D11:41
chrisccoulsonhi mvo. would it be possible to also get bug 656881 in to lucid?11:43
ubot2Launchpad bug 656881 in update-manager (Ubuntu Maverick) (and 1 other project) ""Install" button sometimes doesn't do anything (affects: 1) (heat: 6)" [Medium,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/65688111:43
=== MacSlow is now known as MacSlow|lunch
seb128Cimi, https://edge.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-desktop/+archive/gnome3-builds12:08
seb128Cimi, it's only gtk so far, no theme or other libraries12:08
Cimisuper cool12:08
* Cimi let's broke my system with seb128's ppa12:09
seb128;-)12:09
Cimiops, break!12:09
seb128no way ;-)12:09
seb128btw it's not a gtk update it's a new version12:09
Cimithat might imply a completely breakage12:10
Cimi2~12:10
seb128you will need to install libgtk3.0-012:10
Cimi?12:10
Cimioh ok12:10
seb128no, it implies it will not touch your gtk212:10
seb128so it should probably not break anything12:10
Cimiyeah12:10
mvochrisccoulson: hey, I think so12:15
mvochrisccoulson: but isn't that the policykit-1-gnome issue?12:15
mvochrisccoulson: oh, sorry, this one12:15
mvochrisccoulson: I can prepare a sru12:16
chrisccoulsonmvo - excellent, thanks :)12:16
chrisccoulsonseb128 - are you working on the SRU for pango, or do you want me to do that?12:26
seb128chrisccoulson, you can do it you want12:26
chrisccoulsoncool, thanks. i'll do that one now12:26
seb128thank you12:26
seb128I was planning to work on some surs12:26
seb128srus12:27
seb128but I got sidetracked in starting gtk3 work12:27
seb128I want those to be available in a ppa this week to unblock other people12:27
nessitagood morning everyone!12:31
nessitaany idea why I can't propose for merge the a natty package for ussoc? https://code.launchpad.net/~nataliabidart/ubuntu/natty/ubuntu-sso-client/ubuntu-sso-client-1.1.112:32
nessitaseems like lp:ubuntu/ubuntu-sso-client doesn't exist... at least I couldn't branch it12:32
chrisccoulsonseb128 - we should probably only upgrade to pango 1.28.2, rather than 1.28.3. The later version only has a single change which bumps the GIR version12:33
seb128chrisccoulson, right12:34
chrisccoulsoni don't think we want this: http://git.gnome.org/browse/pango/commit/?h=1.28&id=b7dd5c0ca11672510f5ab870719a46b01c5a6df412:34
seb128nessita, hey, how are you?12:34
seb128nessita, you should wait a bit, they are still sorting issues to open the new release serie, updates don't go through anyway yet12:34
seb128ok, another session restart and I should be done for a bit12:35
=== almaisan-away is now known as al-maisan
* Cimi much work porting a gtk+ engine to gtk+3.0... easy but a lot :)12:43
seb128re12:44
seb128ok, that was not a great idea, but back to normal12:44
=== tkamppeter_ is now known as tkamppeter
seb128hum, in fact not12:45
seb128be back in a bit12:45
nessitaseb128: welcome back :-)12:49
nessitathanks for the info re the natty package12:49
seb128thanks12:49
seb128sorry I had some stability issue, better after a restart12:49
nessitaguys, I'm getting a report for the ussoc package where usso failed to install due to:12:52
nessita/var/lib/dpkg/tmp.ci/preinst: 9: dpkg-maintscript-helper: not found12:52
nessitabut the package has the following require:12:52
nessita dpkg (>=1.15.7.2),12:52
nessitaand in the report Dependencies.txt shows that dpkg version is 1.15.8.4ubuntu312:52
nessitaany idea why this failed? bug report is at https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ubuntu-sso-client/+bug/65876512:52
ubot2Launchpad bug 658765 in ubuntu-sso-client (Ubuntu) "package ubuntu-sso-client 1.0.3-0ubuntu1 failed to install/upgrade: subprocess new pre-installation script returned error exit status 127 (dup-of: 658768)" [Undecided,New]12:52
ubot2Launchpad bug 658768 in ubuntu-sso-client (Ubuntu) "package ubuntu-sso-client 1.0.3-0ubuntu1 failed to install/upgrade: subprocess new pre-installation script returned error exit status 127 (affects: 1) (dups: 1) (heat: 12)" [Undecided,New]12:52
seb128nessita, you need a predepends12:53
Laneyraphael blogged about using maingscript-helper recently12:54
nessitaLaney: have a link at hand? :-)12:55
Laneyhttp://raphaelhertzog.com/2010/10/07/the-right-way-to-remove-an-obsolete-conffile-in-a-debian-package/12:55
seb128ups, ctrl-w doesn't do what I want12:56
seb128nessita, sorry I was say, you need to Pre-Depends on the new dpkg12:56
seb128since that once needs to be available when your preinst runs12:56
nessitaseb128: right, I'll make a new package.12:56
seb128new dpkg -> the one which has the helper you use12:56
nessitayes, dpkg (>= 1.15.7.2)12:57
didrocksI'm always confused by the debian policy telling "When a package declaring a pre-dependency is about to be unpacked " where in fact, it's before the preinst12:58
=== MacSlow|lunch is now known as MacSlow
chrisccoulsonseb128 - ok, pango is pushed to bzr now13:13
chrisccoulson(i can't upload that one)(13:13
nessitaseb128: so, I can't branch lp:ubuntu/maverick-proposed/ubuntu-sso-client either (I need to package a couple of SRUs). What am I missing?13:19
bilalakhtarseb128: maverick-proposed isn't open yet, you need to branch from maverick instead13:22
bilalakhtarsorry13:22
bilalakhtarnessita: ^^13:22
nessitabilalakhtar: I see. And how shall the procedure for a SRU follow?13:24
nessitaI mean, if I don't branch -proposed :-)13:24
bilalakhtarnessita: When you will propose merge, you will need to propose to maverick only13:24
bilalakhtarthe sponsor will upload to proposed13:24
bilalakhtarof course, you will need to specify proposed in changelog13:24
nessitabilalakhtar: I never specify the version on the changelog... I was told the sponsor sets the version accordingly13:25
bilalakhtarnessita: what version?13:26
bilalakhtarI mean13:26
bilalakhtarfoo (0.1.2-3ubuntu2.1) maverick; urgency=low13:26
bilalakhtarwill become13:26
bilalakhtarfoo (0.1.2-3ubuntu2.1) maverick0proposed; urgency=low13:26
bilalakhtar*maverick-proposed13:26
nessitabilalakhtar: yeah, I don't set that, I leave the UNRELEASED string13:31
=== zyga is now known as zyga-break
bilalakhtarnessita: yes you can13:32
nessitabilalakhtar: I know I can (I know how to use an editor! :-P), but seb128 told me in last platform sprint that I should leave that field to be changed by the sponsor13:33
bilalakhtarnessita: ah, if seb128 said that, leave it like that then13:34
nessita:-)13:34
nessitahe's like a God or something, right?13:34
cyphermoxbilalakhtar, this is likely because when working in a branch, the sponsor runs dch -r / debcommit -r, and the default commit message is "releasing <version>"; whereas dch -r automatically sets the release field to what it should be instead of UNRELEASED13:35
cyphermoxwell, not just the sponsor, but when one uploads a package :)13:36
cyphermoxgood morning btw :)13:36
=== ogra_ is now known as ogra
nessitahello cyphermox13:54
cyphermoxhi13:54
=== zyga-break is now known as zyga
nessitasponsor wanted! https://code.launchpad.net/~nataliabidart/ubuntu/maverick/ubuntu-sso-client/ubuntu-sso-client-1.0.4/+merge/3822114:29
Laneynessita: changelog doesn't say anything about the pre-depends change14:33
jcastroseb128: let's ambush rickspencer3 today wrt. blueprints.14:33
rickspencer3jcastro, in point of fact, I wanted to ask you about that14:33
nessitaLaney: nopes, it doesn't, you're right. I didn't realize I had to add it, I usually just add the changelog from the upstream project14:33
jcastroaha, perfect!14:33
nessitaLaney: is on the bzr log, shall I add it the same?14:34
Laneynessita: And that bug you reference in the commit message is a dupe ;-)14:34
rickspencer3jcastro, where can I see some organized lists of the blueprints registred to date for Natty?14:34
Laneynessita: as changleogs are what users (and the SRU team) see, I'd say so14:34
jcastrohttps://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/sprints/uds-n14:34
nessitaLaney: I'll fix that, thanks!14:34
jcastrothe link at the bottom takes you to the "pending" ones people are submitting14:34
jcastrowhich is the link you'll want to check regularly14:34
rickspencer3jcastro, can I see them listed by track?14:35
rickspencer3also, I'd like to be able to list them by team if possible14:35
rickspencer3jcastro, does stuff like this work: https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/sprints/uds-n?searchtext=*-foundations-*14:35
rickspencer3?14:35
jcastrorickspencer3: clicking on the column sorts them by name, which is are the tracks14:36
jcastroyes, it does14:36
pittihey rickspencer3, made it back in one piece?14:36
rickspencer3pitti, yes indeed14:36
rickspencer3slept until 4am, so not too much jet lag this time ;)14:36
rickspencer3I discovered this morning that my neighborhood is owned by cats at 4am14:37
pittiheh; they were screaming?14:37
rickspencer3no, just a bit shocked to see a person walking by14:37
rickspencer3some ran, some stretched out to be petted ;)14:37
jcastromy cat tried to kill me the other day, I never did manage to get him in the carrier to get to the vet.14:38
* jcastro carries the scars14:38
jcastrorickspencer3: as long as you stick to the naming convention it should be fine14:38
jcastrorickspencer3: jono's mail to -devel explains it14:38
jcastrobut basically14:38
jcastro$track-$team-n-$title14:38
kenvandinejcastro, we know who the boss is there :)14:41
kenvandinehey rickspencer3, welcome back!14:41
nessitaLaney: fixes added and pushed!14:41
Laneycool14:41
LaneyI can't actually sponsor it though :P14:41
nessitaLaney: is ok, thanks for the pointers :-)14:42
Laneynp14:42
nessitasponsor wanted! https://code.launchpad.net/~nataliabidart/ubuntu/maverick/ubuntu-sso-client/ubuntu-sso-client-1.0.4/+merge/3822114:42
mptmvo, hi, for bug 44933714:49
ubot2Launchpad bug 449337 in software-center (Ubuntu) "does not support --addon-cd (regression from g-a-i) (affects: 2) (heat: 15)" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/44933714:49
mptmvo, when the disc has been previously added, but is not inserted right now, how much would USC know about the packages on it?14:50
mvompt: the packages are stored by apt, it knows what packages are on what disk14:51
mvompt: meta-data is more problematic as this is currently not considered by apt at all14:51
mptmvo, does it know all their descriptions, icons?14:52
mpthm14:52
mptSo it doesn't even know their titles?14:52
mvompt: we should add something for that to apt, that will do no harm (a meta-data fetcher)14:52
mvompt: correct, it will know only about packages14:52
mptok14:52
mvompt: unless the CD is inserted14:52
mvompt: we could make that a requirement for now, I'm not sure what the best UI for this is14:53
mvompt: the trouble with remembering is that users tend to misplace cds14:53
mptI'm working on the interface design now14:53
mptA way to add a CD, and a way to remove it14:53
mvoand for usb sticks its even worse, people erase them etc14:53
mvoso maybe the answer is to not remember those packages permanently14:54
mptAnd three versions of the main pane: (1) it's inserted but not added, (2) it's added but not currently inserted, and (3) it's both added and inserted.14:54
tedgmterry, Hey, so the gtk3 merge requests from a while back, are those the "blessed way" of doing GTK 3 now?14:54
tedgmterry, I know it's changed a couple of times and I'm honest not sure what's the right way anymore :)14:54
mterrytedg, what, the --with-gtk=2/3?14:54
mterrytedg, AFAIK there is no super-official way to do it.  The list came down on the side of an argument, not a flag like --with-gtk3.  As for the format of the argument 2 vs 2.0 or whether to use enable or with, I don't think there was concensus14:55
tedgmterry, Yeah, and the building a new lib name (i.e. libindicator3)14:55
mterrytedg, as for a new lib name, you need *some* new lib name for parallel installability.  I believe libunique did that (libunique3)14:56
mterrytedg, not sure about other examples.  There hasn't been much official guidance for the transition for libraries14:56
tedgmterry, Okay, and so then what should the pkgconfig file point to, or should there be two?14:57
mterrytedg, there needs to be two for parallel installability14:57
seb128hey mterry14:57
mterryseb128, heyo14:57
seb128mterry, https://edge.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-desktop/+archive/gnome3-builds14:58
mterryseb128, ^^ guidance?14:58
tedgmterry, Hmm, yeah.  But it means that every other package has to upgrade manually...14:58
seb128gtk3 first build14:58
mterryseb128, ah nice14:58
mterrytedg, yeah, as they do for gtk3 itself14:58
seb128mterry, guidance on what topic exactly?14:58
seb128you need to rename the pkgconfig yes14:58
mterryseb128, library naming for the transition to gtk3 and common configure arguments for it14:59
seb128not sure there is an official way, any configure flag naming will do15:01
seb128--with-gtk=... works fine15:01
mterrytedg, you want it to be manual for consumers because getting the wrong version of gtk is disasterous for them, so you don't want them to accidentally upgrade a library they use to gtk315:02
tedgmterry, Yeah, I'm just thinking of libindicator, which really isn't something we want parallel installable.... it's basically just a connector between the indicators and unity/applet.15:03
=== bjf[afk] is now known as bjf
mterrytedg, well, then you need a flag day for all reverse-depends15:05
seb128would it work to load indicators using different gtk versions?15:05
mterrytedg, in which you port all of them to gtk315:05
mterryseb128, in the same process, no15:05
seb128ok, so you sort of need this all reverse-depends upload15:05
desrtcan someone explain ia32-libs to me?15:06
mterryseb128, well, the panel can just not load old gtk2 indicators without forcing a mass port (lost functionality, but no FTBFS)15:06
mterryseb128, not much of a distinction, I suppose because of how important indicators are15:06
seb128right15:07
tedgSo we'll need to bump the indicator directory as well.15:07
mterryseb128, tedg: but there needs to be a way for gtk2 apps to talk to the panel15:07
tedgmterry, ?  Why?15:07
mterrytedg, well, for universe and things that aren't porting right away.  For example, do you want to force banshee to port to gtk3 to continue showing in the panel?15:08
desrtis the indicator stuff straight dbus or is there a panel-side .so?15:08
tedgmterry, Ah, no.  You're confusing libindicator and libappindicator.  Applications use the second one, but only stuff we maintain use the first.  So we do want || install for the second, but not the first.15:09
tedgdesrt, Panel side so15:09
desrtdefinitely separate install dir, then15:09
tedgdesrt, For some of the custom menu items, etc.15:09
desrtdlopen()ing a gtk2-linked .so into a gtk3 app tends to be quite fatal15:10
mterrytedg, so only reverse depends are indicators themselves?  I see.  That's not so bad for a flag day15:10
kenvandinesigh.... today's kernel update breaks suspend on my laptop15:11
* kenvandine looks for bug reports15:11
tedgDoes libgtk2-dev and libgtk3-dev conflict so that you can't accidentally have both?15:11
desrtno.  they are fully parallel-installable15:11
tedgDoesn't that seem like a bad idea?15:12
desrt /usr/share/gtk-2.0/ vs /usr/share/gtk-3.0/15:12
desrtwell, they have different pkgconfig name...15:12
desrtit's as if they're two completely separate unrelated libraries15:12
seb128tedg, no they don't15:12
desrtexcept that they violently explode if you try to use both (by virtue of using each others namespace)15:12
tedgThat if you use at the same time they blow up :)15:12
seb128tedg, not sure what is your issue with that?15:13
desrtwe actually have a check in gtk_init() that if it sees symbols that it knows belog to "the other" gtk, it aborts straight away15:13
tedgI guess there's no way to say "can be installed at the same time" but not "can't be build-deps at the same time."15:13
tedgBecause installed isn't really an issue, but build-deps is.15:13
seb128well it's up to the maintainer to not screw15:14
desrttedg: i could imagine a single package that wants to install a gtk2 and gtk3 version of itself depending on both gtk2 and gtk315:14
seb128well any lib that do a build for each15:14
tedgAh, yeah.15:14
seb128ie 2 builds from the same source, one gtk2 and one gtk3 one15:15
* tedg doesn't trust these "maintainer" people ;)15:15
seb128;-)15:15
desrthere's a fun example:15:15
desrtit might make sense to port banshee's app indicator .so to link against gtk315:15
desrtand leave banshee as gtk2 (since it's a lot more work)15:16
seb128out of the fact that appindicators are not different .so15:16
seb128they are a libappindicator api used in the application15:16
seb128the same way that the notification area is used15:16
tedgYeah, appindicators are all dbus, so we're good there.15:17
desrtah.  right.15:17
seb128hum maybe not in the banshee case, they probably did it as a .so indeed15:17
desrtdon't they have that music-player-over-dbus spec they use?15:17
seb128but banshee gtk2 probably can't load a gtk3 .so15:17
* tedg is tired of thinking about all this. Let's just never upgrade library versions, ever, okay? :)15:17
seb128lol15:17
tedgdesrt, Yes, MPRIS.15:18
desrttedg: expect it again in 3-5 years15:18
seb128right, the banshee case is a non issue now15:18
seb128we stopped using an appindicator for music players15:18
seb128we just use mpris over dbus15:18
=== zyga is now known as zyga-afk
mclasendesrt: its a lot more painful that it has to be, due to our unholy mess of dependencies, and modules mixing apps, services and libraries...15:23
* desrt feels a little heat from that statement15:24
nessitakenvandine: hello! could sponsor an upload into maverick-proposed? https://code.launchpad.net/~nataliabidart/ubuntu/maverick/ubuntu-sso-client/ubuntu-sso-client-1.0.4/+merge/3822115:25
nessitacould you*15:25
kenvandinenessita, sure15:25
nessitakenvandine: I couldn't branch maverick-proposed nor merge propose against, so I use maverick as per bilalakhtar's advice15:26
kenvandineok15:27
Sarvattdarn, seeing minecraft on here made me think it was actually available for purchase in the software center - http://www.ubuntu.com/desktop/features :)15:38
Laneythat's a bit weird if it isn't15:41
=== cking is now known as cking-afk
pittibaptistemm: bonjour! would you like to merge bluez with debian unstable?15:56
kklimondaSarvatt: it would be a great idea15:57
jcastroseb128: I see karl nailed that 100% CPU bug?16:01
seb128jcastro, no, chrisccoulson did16:02
jcastrowoo!16:02
chrisccoulson:)16:02
jcastroseb128: do you have more bugs for him?16:02
seb128jcastro, wondering what karl has been doing though for a week16:02
seb128is he still working?16:02
jcastroI thought he was working with you?16:02
jcastrothat was my impression16:02
seb128it seems it has spent one week on this g-s-d bug chrisccoulson fixed so not sure what's up there16:03
chrisccoulsonnice, i just ported my first extension to ff-4 \o/16:05
chrisccoulsonand all without a debugger, seeing as JS debugging is currently broken16:06
Riddellseb128: could you update your weekly meeting reminder template to include the meeting time?  that way I wouldn't have to look it up every week :)16:18
seb128Riddell, it's a wiki, feel free to do it ;-)16:18
seb128Riddell, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/MeetingTemplate16:18
=== cking-afk is now known as cking
cyphermox_brb16:26
=== zyga-afk is now known as zyga
=== al-maisan is now known as almaisan-away
Cimiseb128: porting an engine to gtk+ 3.0 is much much much longer than I expected :)16:53
seb128hey there17:30
cyphermox_hey17:30
* kenvandine waves17:30
Riddellhi17:30
seb128chrisccoulson, didrocks, tremolux, kenvandine, Riddell, pitti, mterry, cyphermox, tkamppeter: hey17:30
* pitti waves17:30
chrisccoulson\o/17:30
seb128starts being challenging to forget nobody17:30
seb128how is everybody?17:30
* mterry says great!17:31
kenvandinegreat!17:31
seb128congratulation to all on a a great maverick release17:31
tremoluxhey!17:31
didrocksgreat!17:31
seb128but as you know it never stays quiet long there17:31
seb128;-)17:32
seb128ok, let's get started17:32
seb128https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/Meeting/2010-10-1217:32
* pitti ♥ natty17:32
seb128I guess there is no much updates17:32
seb128we careful to typos btw17:32
pittiseb128: ?17:32
seb128naty is nessita, natty is the new ubuntu17:32
seb128but she's not there so it's not fun17:33
kenvandinehaha17:33
seb128anyway let's get started17:33
pittiseb128: yes, and Netti is my wife :)17:33
seb128pitti, ;-)17:33
didrocksseb128: try again next week? :-)17:33
pitti(pronounced the same)17:33
seb128didrocks, :p17:33
kenvandinepitti, oh confusing :)17:33
seb128I guess status updates will be short17:33
pitti1. release 2. sleep 3. merge17:33
tkamppeterhi17:33
seb128maybe just do a summary of the maverick feedback17:33
kenvandinehehe :)17:33
seb128if you expect some sru or not17:34
seb128ok17:34
seb128kenvandine, hey17:34
pittifrom an SRU POV I can report that things are much quieter than usual17:34
seb128partner update? ;-)17:34
kenvandinesure... natty planning and a couple SRUs17:34
kenvandinenothing particular to report, yet17:34
kenvandineeveryone is preparing for UDS17:34
seb128pitti, yeah, that's wanted17:34
pittiI guess partly because maverick was a solid release, and also because we've been quite liberal with post-RC updates17:34
seb128next cycle will be busy and the lts was only one cycle away17:35
pittiwhich wasn't without risk, but has gone well17:35
seb128I for one decided to move full speed to the new version early17:35
seif_mvo, and mpt so back to the issue at hand17:35
seb128seif_, hey, we are in a meeting at the moment can you wait it's over ?17:35
pittiseif_: sorry, we currently (ab)use the channel for our meeting17:35
seif_what 3 features would u like to see in S-C that are not fully implemented yet17:35
pittiseif_: perhaps we can temporarily redirect you to #u-devel?17:35
kenvandinei am very pleased and surprised how smooth things went considering the amount of late changes17:35
seb128yeah17:36
kenvandinewhew :)17:36
seb128thanks kenvandine, let's keep moving with status updates17:36
seb128didrocks, hey, anything you want to mention?17:36
seb128(will be easier asked this way)17:36
seb128no need to bother doing a status update if there is nothing to say ;-)17:36
didrocksnot a lot to say as of today. UNE 10.10 kindly released.17:36
didrocksOf course, we now got, some bugs and try to catch up with them.17:36
didrocksPlanning on what to discuss at UDS is now in order.17:36
didrocksshort :)17:37
seb128thanks didrocks17:37
seb128tremolux, hey, anything you want to mention?17:37
seb128as a status update I mean17:37
tremoluxsure  :)17:38
tremolux* Software Center 3.0.4 released with 10.1017:38
tremolux* Ratings and Reviews has been kicked off and is shaping up to be the first new major feature for Software Center in Natty17:38
tremolux* We have been merging some very cool new Zeitgeist integration features from Seif Lofty17:38
tremolux* Planning for Natty cycle in progress17:38
tremoluxjust some stuff we are getting going with17:38
seb128great17:38
tremoluxbut of course it's all about 10.10 today  :D17:38
seb128great release, with rating and reviews landing I guess s-c will be even happier ;-)17:38
seb128let's see what else we get next cycle17:39
seb128tremolux, thanks17:39
seb128no pedro, so no bug status update I guess17:39
tremoluxyou're welcome  :)17:39
* Riddell coughs politely17:39
seb128ups17:39
kenvandine:)17:39
seb128Riddell, hey ;-)17:39
seb128sorry I somewhat forgot about the kubuntu update17:39
Riddell * 10.10 is out!  no major problems so far17:39
Riddell * SRUs for kdelibs, choqok, qoauth, bluedevil in progress17:39
Riddell * specs to be registered today, just need to sort out the ideas at https://wiki.kubuntu.org/Kubuntu/UDSNatty17:39
seb128how did maverick go for you? ;-)17:40
Riddellmaverick is all good, X and compositing was our biggest trouble area but that's upstream's fault17:40
seb128ok, great, I see you are well organized as usual ;-)17:40
Riddellalso I got down from 4000 to <100 unread e-mails today :)17:40
seb128impressive ;-)17:41
seb128thanks Riddell17:41
seb128ok, so no release status from me today17:41
seb128but new topic: blueprints17:41
seb128is everybody clear on what to do there?17:42
seb128just give some thinking to what you would like to get done next cycle and register blueprints for those17:42
seb128jcastro wrote an email to the list "Naming sessions in Launchpad for UDS"17:42
seb128read it if you didn't17:42
seb128the summary is that the naming to use is "$trackname-$team-n-$title"17:43
seb128jcastro, ^ correct?17:43
seb128http://summit.ubuntu.com/uds-n/17:43
jcastroyes17:43
jcastrohttps://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel/2010-October/031779.html17:43
seb128has a summary of the tracks17:43
kenvandinemake sure you read that mail too, the track names are different :)17:43
pittiand please target them at natty now17:44
pittiso that they'll appear on the WI tracker17:44
seb128https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/sprints/uds-n17:44
seb128your specs should show up there17:44
seb128the WI tracker which spams my inbox every hour since yesterday ;-)17:44
pittihow can so many specs be approved already??17:44
pittiah, apparently carried over from m17:45
seb128right17:45
seb128be aware that next cycle will be busy out of specs17:45
seb128we will have quite some stack updates, ie gtk317:45
didrocksseb128: it's not in the list until something approved the uds-n target, right?17:45
seb128so we will time to handle bugs to that and port code17:46
pittididrocks: yes17:46
pittiseb128: that sounds great17:46
seb128so don't over-sign for work17:46
didrockssomeone*17:46
seb128didrocks, correct17:46
pittiI just have one blueprint for now, which will be a huge one; so I don't actually plan to do more17:46
seb128ok17:46
seb128is anybody having questions on blueprints registration?17:46
seb128or anything to add?17:47
kenvandinenope17:47
chrisccoulsoni've got some which need approving i think17:47
chrisccoulsonthey don't appear on that list17:47
seb128chrisccoulson, just tell me which ones after the meeting and I will see if I can approve those17:48
chrisccoulsonthanks17:48
seb128or we will track jcastro to get that sorted if that doesn't work17:48
seb128ok, seems there is nothing to add17:48
seb128great work on maverick everybody17:48
seb128let's get ready for UDS now ;-)17:48
seb128end of meeting17:49
seb128;-)17:49
didrocksthanks everyone :)17:49
pittiand if anyone feels bored, https://merges.ubuntu.com/main.html has plenty of stuff :)17:49
seb128pitti, do we know when natty opens?17:50
pittiseb128: I guess another day or two (still need a kernel upload), but please don't let that stop you17:50
pittiunapproved is waiting17:50
seb128speaking of getting borred17:50
seb128https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bugs?field.tag=gnome3-gtk317:50
seb128https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bugs?field.tag=gnome3-gsettings17:50
seb128https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bugs?field.tag=gnome3-gtkbuilder17:51
seb128if you want to work on some of those17:51
seb128https://edge.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-desktop/+archive/gnome3-builds has a first gtk3 build17:51
seb128pitti, btw can you stop builds? it seems the amd64 build it going over and over17:51
seb128the i386 built it 19 minutes but amd64 is building for half a day17:51
pittiseb128: I can't, no; that requires lamont or elmo17:51
bcurtiswx_seems gnomes moving over to 3.0 finally, im assimung we will too?17:53
chrisccoulsonm'eh, debugging firefox extensions without a debugger is pretty difficult :/17:55
seb128bcurtiswx_, we will see where we get17:59
seb128we plan to get there though17:59
bcurtiswx_Good :)17:59
seb128but let's update the stack first and see how much we can port of update without impacting the desktop stability17:59
seb128we will do incremental updates17:59
Riddelltremolux: where are the docs about how apps get into extras.ubuntu.com ?17:59
tremoluxRiddell: here's the process:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PostReleaseApps/Process18:01
Riddellthanks18:02
tremoluxRiddell: you're welcome  :)18:04
dobeypitti: still around?18:23
pittidobey: o/18:23
dobeypitti: hi! what do you mean by "it needs to be built with -v<version in lucid/-updates/-security>" ?18:23
dobeypitti: i don't see a -v option to debuild or dpkg-buildpackage?18:23
pittidobey: that's a dpkg-buildpackage option18:23
dobeyis it undocumented?18:24
pittidobey: it's passed to dpkg-genchanges18:24
pittidobey: no, dpkg-buildpackage manpage says it's a dpkg-genchanges option18:24
pittidobey: it causes all changelog records since the specified version to appear in the generated .changes file18:24
pittidobey: but that's not really relevant for couchdb, we can't just take a maverick backport for lucid and karmic18:24
dobeyah ok18:24
seb128chrisccoulson, so those blueprints?18:25
pittidobey: usually we use that option if you do two SRUs in a row without the first one going to -updats18:25
dobeyright18:25
dobeyi was just looking for docs on that option, as i didn't really understand the comment fully18:25
chrisccoulsonseb128 - https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/other-desktop-n-thunderbird-messaging-indicator18:25
chrisccoulsonhttps://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/other-desktop-n-firefox-418:25
chrisccoulsonand https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/other-desktop-n-firefox-pgo-builds18:26
seb128chrisccoulson, ok, I can approve those18:26
chrisccoulsonexcellent, thanks18:26
seb128chrisccoulson, you didn't propose https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/other-desktop-n-firefox-pgo-builds for the uds it seems, should I do it?18:26
chrisccoulsonseb128 - we probably don't need to discuss that at UDS, but it should still appear on our list i think18:27
seb128chrisccoulson, ok, so let's set a serie and not a sprint18:28
chrisccoulsonthanks18:28
seb128yw18:28
dobeypitti: thanks18:28
seb128chrisccoulson, what is pgo btw? I guess not people.gnome.org ;-)18:28
pittidobey: you're welcome18:28
chrisccoulsonseb128 - profile guided optimization18:29
chrisccoulsonit will hopefully make things faster ;)18:29
seb128great ;-)18:30
chrisccoulsonif i can get it to build. so far, the profiling step hangs in the PPA builders, and i'm not sure how to debug that really :/18:31
andreasnjcastro, ping18:32
jcastroandreasn: pong18:33
devildantemvo: ping18:33
andreasnjcastro, First. Congrats on the 10.10 release. I'm coming all week for UDS, but David and Bryan can only stay a couple of days and are trying to plan their stay18:34
jcastrooh awesome, what do you need?18:34
andreasnjcastro, do you have any estimate when during the week the Firefox and Thunderbird discussions will be18:34
andreasn?18:34
jcastroyes, so here's how you do that18:35
andreasnI couldn't find anything in the schedule18:35
jcastrowhen they register in launchpad18:35
jcastromake sure they put in there what days they will be attending18:35
andreasnoh, so it's kind of up to them?18:35
jcastrothen we can mark them as "Essential" for the spec18:35
jcastrothen the session can only be scheduled when all three of you are available18:35
andreasnok, I see18:36
jcastroso yes, based on your availablity18:36
jcastrohttps://launchpad.net/sprints/uds-n <-- when they register here18:36
jcastrothat's the link that they need to make sure they add themselves to18:36
=== almaisan-away is now known as al-maisan
jcastroandreasn: they'll need to mark themselves as essential to every tbird spec: https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/other-desktop-n-thunderbird-messaging-indicator18:39
jcastrolike how micahg did there ^^^. It's a checkbox when they subscribe as to wether be essential or not.18:39
* micahg thought he added all the Mozilla people to our specs18:39
jcastroI think you're getting 2 more!18:40
micahg\o/18:40
andreasnjcastro, ok, will catch bryan in 30 mins or so18:41
* Cimi is happy to announce murrine is not ported to gtk+ 3.0 :-)18:41
Cimi*now18:41
Ciminot not :P18:41
andreasnCimi, heh :)18:42
andreasnCimi, but great!18:42
andreasnmicahg, what mozilla specs are there?18:42
jcastroandreasn: keep checking in, the design specs should be landing today/tomorrow if you guys are interested in those18:43
andreasnmicahg, I'm on other-desktop-n-thunderbird-messaging-indicator, other-desktop-n-firefox-4 and appselection-n-thunderbird-on-ub...18:43
micahgandreasn: https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/other-desktop-n-firefox-418:43
micahgandreasn: there will be one more general team spec that I'll add later this week, I'll add everyone essential from the firefox-4 spec to it18:44
andreasnok, sounds good!18:44
seb128didrocks, hey18:45
didrockshey seb12818:45
seb128didrocks, I just assigned you 2 evolution bugs18:45
seb128didrocks, basically 2 upstream commits to sru if you can, the reported has pointed to upstream bugs and they got fixed in 2.3218:46
didrocksthat's not kind of you :)18:46
didrocksthat's better then :)18:46
seb128;-)18:46
didrocksseb128: ok, will have a look tomorrow morning :)18:46
didrocksthanks!18:46
didrocksI'll try to work on a third in a round18:46
seb128didrocks, if you want to reply on the why we don't ship the current version tell him that the 2.312 schedule was decided late and we didn't have ressources to do the update but he's welcome to contribute18:46
didrocks(the "mark all as read"18:46
seb128didrocks, ok, thanks!18:47
didrocksseb128: yeah, I've already made similar statement in #evolution18:47
didrocksseb128: thanks :)18:47
seb128didrocks, btw did you see robert_ancell connected this week?18:49
didrocksseb128: no, I didn't pay attention (at least, he didn't discuss when I was connected)18:53
didrocksseb128: but he made an SRU, doesn't he?18:53
seb128right18:53
seb128I just wondered if somebody talked to him18:53
didrocksno, and as I ignore join/quit…18:53
chrisccoulsonyeah, i spoke to him briefly last night18:59
seb128ok18:59
seb128I will write him an email18:59
seb128just to let him updated on what we are doing18:59
seb128he was away for some weeks18:59
didrocksgood evening guys!19:00
=== devildante is now known as devildanteafk
Cimiseb128: I could make a gtk3-engines-murrine from git maybe19:01
seb128Cimi, I'm about to go for dinner but I will tomorrow19:02
seb128Cimi, thanks for working on that btw ;-)19:02
* Cimi going to the gym club, instead :)19:03
=== devildanteafk is now known as devildante
devildanteYokoZar: around?19:51
YokoZardevildante: aye19:51
devildanteYokoZar: https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/software-center/+spec/other-n-wine-software-center19:51
YokoZarSaw it :)19:52
devildantegreat :)19:53
devildanteA little lacking at the moment, though :p19:53
devildanteYokoZar: any ideas you want to add there?19:54
YokoZarlink it to a wiki page19:54
devildanteI create a new wiki page?19:55
YokoZarYeah19:55
devildanteYokoZar: done and linked: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/NattyWineSoftwareCenter20:06
=== al-maisan is now known as almaisan-away
YokoZardevildante: I put some content there20:25
devildanteYokoZar: looks great, thanks :)20:26
bcurtiswx_when will we be able to update manager -d  to natty?21:20
chrisccoulsonbcurtiswx_ - what's stopping you from doing that already? (not that there's really any compelling reason too)21:25
chrisccoulsoni think i'll wait until after UDS ;)21:26
Sarvattbcurtiswx: after an alpha release probably21:26
sorenI kind of doubt there's a natty upgrade tool yet.21:26
micahgbugabundo already upgraded21:26
chrisccoulsonoh, right. but you can still sed -ri s/maverick/natty /etc/apt/sources.list and apt-get upgrade ;)21:26
bcurtiswx_well i want to start "playing" after auto sync starts.. but is there an easy way to use the repos for natty? or will i have to manually do and change all maverick to natty21:26
bcurtiswx_hmm, i tend to ask questions right after they're already answered21:27
bcurtiswx_thx :)21:27
chrisccoulsoni really can't think of any reason why people would want to upgrade just now though21:28
Sarvattmanually change the sources to natty yeah, it's always like that until the alphas21:28
chrisccoulsonwith the exception of a few bits of the toolchain, natty is actually behind maverick whilst we process SRU's21:28
bcurtiswx_chrisccoulson, yeah, im gonna wait until auto sync, wasn't sure if there was a time when natty repos were opened. (if not already) :P21:28
chrisccoulsonwell, the release exists, but it's not open21:29
Sarvattalready switched my maverick-changes bookmarks to point at https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/natty-changes/2010-October/date.html :)21:29
chrisccoulsonand there's a whole load of SRU's waiting in maverick-proposed that haven't been copied to natty yet21:29
micahgchrisccoulson: usually when stuff moves to -updates, it gets pocket copied to natty21:29
chrisccoulsonmicahg - yeah, that's right21:29
* bcurtiswx_ is learning more new things.. woo21:30
bcurtiswx_free education!21:30
chrisccoulsoni've got "dput ubuntu firefox-4.0" on my terminal and my finger resting on ENTER, waiting for natty to open ;)21:31
chrisccoulsonj/k ;)21:31
bcurtiswx_haha, i played around with 4-0... stayed with chrome21:31
bcurtiswx_i hope someone discusses moving the greasemonkey scripts to chrome at thie upcoming UDS21:32
bcurtiswx_this*21:32
micahgbcurtiswx_: what scripts?21:32
Sarvattsame with libdrm and xserver-xorg-video-intel here, so many bug fixes we couldn't get in because of the 10/10 release date move timing badly with upstream releases21:32
bcurtiswx_LP21:32
micahgbcurtiswx_: already done21:32
bcurtiswx_orly?21:33
chrisccoulsonSarvatt, yeah. but that didn't really make too much difference for me, as firefox 4.0 was never really going to make it to maverick ;)21:33
chrisccoulsoneven though users asked for it21:33
bcurtiswx_im excited for this cycle, we get a few extra weeks :D21:33
bcurtiswx_we'll need it for GNOME3.021:33
Sarvattfor sure, it's going to be a *fun* release cycle full of brokenness there :)21:34
chrisccoulsonyeah, it's going to be crazy21:34
chrisccoulsonthe only advice i can give is "SLEEP BEFORE UDS" ;)21:34
bcurtiswx_good cycle to get into packaging :).. at least thats what seb128 keeps telling me :P21:34
bcurtiswx_im gonna hate not being at UDS.. someone will have to give jcastro a good word for me for support21:35
bcurtiswx_im a poor college student..21:35
micahgchrisccoulson: I just found out the next DMB meeting is 8AM on Monday at UDS21:36
chrisccoulsonnice!21:36
chrisccoulsoni really need to do my core-dev application :/21:36
bcurtiswx_you out of the US peeps looking forward to some florida weather (lots of thunderstorms)21:36
jcastroI don't make those decisions!21:37
* bcurtiswx_ hides in corner21:37
chrisccoulsoni really really like thunderstorms21:38
chrisccoulsoni went to orlando in the first week of june a few years back, hoping to see lots21:38
chrisccoulsonand we didn't have any21:38
chrisccoulsonthen there was a thunderstorm every day the week after i left21:38
chrisccoulson:(21:38
bcurtiswx_chrisccoulson, me too. <--- B.S. Meteorology21:38
chrisccoulsoncool!21:39
=== mclasen is now known as mclasen_afk
=== mclasen_afk is now known as mclasen
CimiI would like to be added to planet ubuntu, how can I do this since I'm not an ubuntu member yet?22:52
TheMusoCimi: Unless there is a good reason that someone in the Ubuntu community thinks your blog should be sindicated, you need to become an Ubuntu member.22:53
CimiTheMuso: I want to blog about the things I'm doing :-)22:54
TheMusoI'm not really the person who can answer your query, and this is somewhat off topic for in here anyway.22:55
Cimiyeah I know22:55
Cimiops damn23:01
Cimikenvandine: help pls23:01
Cimii don't know what happened, I pushed in a branch, it was pushed even in trunk23:03
Cimicode.launchpad.net/light-themes23:03
Cimiit's the first time this happens23:03
jcastroCimi: nice work on the gtk3 port!23:06
Cimiok I've got the error23:06
CimiI did bzr co lp:light-themes and then I pushed in the branch23:06
Cimiinstead branching light-themes at first23:07
* Cimi idiot, as always :)23:07
* Cimi should not work at midnight23:07
Cimithanks jcastro23:07
=== bjf is now known as bjf[afk]

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