[08:07] persia: do we have a meeting tonight? [08:29] lifeless: as per wiki, seems like you do [09:28] lifeless, I believe so. [10:08] hi [10:08] hi [10:09] Hi. You live in a benighted realm that believes that sunrise should happen after sensible people are already awake. Wait an hour. [10:09] Or did something change that I missed? [10:11] wiki page says 1000 utc [10:11] @now [10:11] Current time in Etc/UTC: October 12 2010, 09:11:56 [10:11] is gnome lying to me about time in london ? [10:11] Right, and it's 9:00 UTC [10:12] blah [10:12] heh [10:12] * lifeless stabs gnome [10:12] Time in London doesn't matter. time in Reykjavik is more interesting. [10:12] London is part of one of the benighted realms above-mentioned. [10:13] When does DST change, last sunday of this month? [10:15] nigelb: I'm already on DST [10:15] so, bleh, this meeting will be @ 11pm. [10:15] heh [10:16] nigelb, Randomly, in abitrary directions, depending on the whim of the governments for the area. I think the worst was once when a government decided on a Friday that DST started that weekend. [10:16] If you want gory and amusing details, read the tzdata changelog. [10:17] you can blame NZ for this [10:17] Eeek, no thanks [10:18] I should probably find some food before this reprieve ends. [10:18] * persia remembers one morning having to reschedule a conference call because DST happened in different directions on the same day in the areas where all the participants sat. [10:18] (and, annoyingly, ending up with a 5am call in Sydney as a result) [10:19] I think this month is going to be generally confusing for meetings [10:19] Someone should tack that on the /topic [10:19] right, its already there :) [10:23] mmm [10:23] I may not make it [10:45] * elky munches and waits. [10:53] @now [10:53] Current time in Etc/UTC: October 12 2010, 09:53:56 [10:54] Mohan_chml, Soon. [10:54] persia: yeah :) [11:00] Good evening Vantrax [11:05] So, um, it's 10:05. Who is present? Do we have quorum? [11:05] I'm here for a few minutes; really just a few. [11:06] ogitux seems not here yet, so we may not have that much business before us. [11:06] yes. His wiki seems not updated with details [11:06] shall we take the moments until he arrives to discuss board population? [11:07] Sure. [11:08] yep [11:08] #startmeeting [11:08] Meeting started at 05:08. The chair is elky. [11:08] Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE] [11:08] Woo, I remembered! [11:08] [TOPIC] Board members [11:08] New Topic: Board members [11:08] nice work:P [11:09] I have seen 4 apps total. [11:09] And our target is still 9 total members, 3 east, 3 central, and 3 west, right? [11:10] do we hand that to CC or go back again and ask for more [11:10] I think its 8 [11:10] [11:10] err we have 8 [11:10] Right. We got one more last time we talked about this, but never the other one, and never moved to split meetings. [11:11] and 12 was the goal with 2 meetings and 4 for quorum still [11:11] I'm rather eager to avoid holding this up unnecessarily. [11:11] we are still going to have a numbers issue atm [11:11] 12! That's larger than I think we need, especially with a quorum of 4. I'm not precisely happy about assuming most folk won't show up. [11:12] we have 8 right now afaik [11:12] Yeah, that worries me too. [11:12] we struggle to get 4 [11:12] We're still in the rut where it's always the same few who show up. [11:12] yep [11:13] Vantrax, yes, but the question is: do we need the folk that don't show? [11:13] probably not [11:13] * persia would rather have a smaller board that was mostly present: people who only show once every few months are hard to trust [11:13] we have the same four each time normally [11:14] Right. [11:14] with amachu and takdir making it intermittantly [11:14] So, let's look at distribution. [11:14] lifeless is *way* east. elky is east. I'm central. Vantrax: I forget if you're east or central? [11:15] I'm east, in brisbane [11:15] I'm so far east, ATM, that I'm really west. [11:15] lol [11:15] (UTC+13) [11:16] lifeless, For our purposes, that's merely east, when far-west is still +5:30 [11:16] OK, so we need some central and west. [11:16] yep, we can safely assume people can make this time [11:17] Right. Let's take the position we don't need anyone else to the east. [11:17] Central is historically where we've had retention issues. [11:17] Let's ask the current members that don't show if they want to remain on the board. [11:17] May I suggest that's the wrong question? [11:18] I'm happy with that asumption elky [11:18] And let's send the list of new nominees and commonly-missing members to the CC as two separate groups, "central" and "west" and ask them to select two central and three west. [11:18] excellent idea [11:18] elky, What's a better question, assuming that we're not guaranteeing them a continued spot regardless of their answer? [11:18] persia, I'm more inclined to ask if they're able, rather than if they're willing. [11:19] I think we should ask what they want [11:19] elky, That's a *much* better question. Good call. [11:19] Vantrax, As someone who is rarely able to do the set of things I want, I'll say that's dangerous. [11:20] agreed [11:20] if they can't fulfil the obligation they resign [11:20] that is my opinion [11:20] Vantrax, easily spoken in theory. Harder to actualy do. [11:21] Noting that when asking if they're able that we'd be specifying *both* times. [11:21] yep, I'm pretending its a perfect world [11:21] No, we're not asking that people can make both times. [11:22] We're asking that central people can make both times and western people can make the later time. [11:22] persia, we're asking them if they can make at least one of the times. [11:22] OK. [11:23] I just want to make sure we're not asking our sometimes-present western member to attend the earlier time at which lifeless hasn't already fallen asleep. [11:23] are we looking at three or two meetings? [11:23] Two ought be enough. [11:23] I agree, was just checking [11:23] If we were doing three meetings, we'd not have enough coherency, and I'd argue we ought to split into an "Asia" board and an "Oceania" board. [11:24] I think 2 should be good coverage [11:24] speaking of which. ciao. [11:24] night champ [11:24] lifeless, thanks for coming, ciao [11:26] so we have the same continuing problem [11:26] We do. We've had it since the inception of the RMB. [11:26] We get closer to solving it each time. [11:26] o/ [11:26] That's the point of going from the original 7 to 9 members and splitting the meeting. [11:26] can I have a minute? [11:26] We're up to 8 and have 4 regulars, which beats the 3 regulars we had at one point. [11:26] hello mohi [11:27] persia, yep. Improvements have been achieved. [11:27] true, we make quorum usually, even if I'm on my phone like today [11:27] So, Everyone feel good about the plan I've outlined above? [11:27] what about starting an IRC channel for Asia/Ociania memebers and analysing their presence at the time of meeting before making them as an RMB? [11:28] Hola Vantrax =] [11:28] Mohan_chml, Doesn't help. I'm often around at this time, but my join/part messages wouldn't even begin to help anyone know that. [11:28] hrm, not a bad idea [11:28] Mohan_chml, or they could just attend the meetings like now. [11:28] elky: that is also acceptable [11:28] I would think people wanting to join would turn up to meetings as elky said [11:29] Mohan_chml, then consider it already in action ;) [11:29] (: [11:30] My suggestion is, Lets make a single meeting for next two times, see the presence of the applicants and their skill of Judging, then making the meeting as two [11:30] mohi, we don't have enough applicants [11:31] ah..! [11:31] ah, a bit of arm twisting required to get more people to apply? :) [11:31] yep [11:32] Vantrax, Are you up for taking an action to contact the often-missing members and get them to say whether they'd be able to make one of the new meeting times? [11:32] (8:00 and 12:00, weren't they?) [11:32] yes, ill do that and report back [11:33] Anyone *not* on the Asia/Oceania RMB who would like to be, or anyone who thinks someone else should be (and has confirmed that person *can*) should also contact the RMB. [11:33] I think it was 0900 and 1200 UTC [11:33] If both those actions complete for next time, we'll be able to ask the CC to give us the new members, and we can meet at the new times. [11:34] yes, ill get something in the fridge [11:34] 9:00 is still late in +14, but I don't think we have anyone further east than +13 in practice. [11:34] maybe we will have more luck [11:35] I rarely get home before 7pm aest [11:35] too much earlier and ill be doing all meetings on a phone:D [11:36] Ah, so 9:00 is about as early as works. OK. 9:00 then. [11:36] nigelb, As someone in IST, do you think 12:00 is late enough for your compatriots? Does it need to be a bit later? [11:37] earlier? [11:37] Vantrax, Just to confirm, AE{SD}T varies between +10 and +11, right? [11:37] Vantrax, I'm not expecting anyone "east" to attend the later meeting :) [11:37] not for me, but yes [11:38] persia: hold on, let me calculate that. [11:38] the southern half use daylight savings [11:38] How does the later time pan out for muslim prayer time, too. I know it's been an issue for some in SE Asia previously. [11:39] 12:00 UTC is 17:30 local time, which is okay. [11:39] * persia looks up relevant prayer schedules [11:39] nigelb, isn't that commute time? [11:40] elky: varies, commute time is an hour more from then [11:40] good point elky [11:40] 9:30 to 6:30 is normal office timings (at least in this city) [11:40] elky, We can't win for that. "Sunset" and "evening" are always likely to collide a bit, unless we make it very late indeed. [11:41] persia, yeah I figured. Most of the muslim nations I think get a fair crack at EMEA anyway. [11:41] Looks like sunset in our region can be as late as 13:42 [11:42] (for 2010: I didn't check past years) [11:43] I don't recall any significant meteorological bodies throwing us too far out of traditional orbit, so close enough. [11:44] Well, governments have odd ideas about time. There are precious few places left where the sun is in at the midpoint of it's path at 12:00 [11:44] yeah, I notice that too [11:44] its confusing sometimes [11:45] Anyway, do we have any more topics? [11:45] I don't believe so. [11:46] [ACTION] Vantrax to email current board members for commitment info [11:46] ACTION received: Vantrax to email current board members for commitment info [11:46] persia/elky can you send an email with action items, I'm about to head home [11:47] I guess we adjourn to list and next fortnight [11:47] logs are painful on a phone:p [11:47] Sounds good to me. [11:47] I think that's the only action item actually. [11:47] yay me [11:47] [ENDMEETING] [11:47] ill get on to that soon [11:47] #endmeeting [11:47] Meeting finished at 05:47. [11:47] I may have trouble making the next meeting, as I'll be in UTC-4, just as a warning. [11:47] persia, next meeting is UDS week? [11:48] np persia, thanks for making the effort [11:48] Two weeks from today, yes? [11:48] Then I'll also be subject to being in the wrong timezone. [11:48] * Vantrax wishes he got to go to uds [11:48] maybe next time [11:48] ugh, uds [11:49] can't even make linux.conf.au this year [11:49] nigelb, next time you won't have to argue with 'murricans. [11:49] elky, With two of us the peer-pressure might be enough to make a 6:00 meeting :) [11:49] elky: I just hope so :/ [11:49] persia, lifeless not likely to be there? [11:50] Dunno. He often seems to make UDSs though, so maybe three. He's an early person too. [11:51] It's not like we're even from the same countries. We can't even just vote on moving .Au for example. So sad. [11:52] * persia fails to be convinced that a vote is sufficient to so accelerate continental drift [11:54] persia, who cares about moving the actual landmass. [11:55] Oh, just the routing assignments? I tend to be conservative, and want alignment between routing assignments and geographic features. [11:58] How quaint. [12:52] hello all [12:56] ogitux, Hey. Meeting ended about an hour ago: it's at 10:00 UTC. `date -u` run from a terminal will show you current UTC time. [12:57] :( [13:00] huft I was Late [13:01] Next meeting on the 26th. [13:02] ok thx persia [13:02] I doubt enough members of the Board are awake at this hour, really. [13:02] why doubt persia [13:03] Because some of them are in UTC+13 and UTC+11, so it's really late. [13:04] so I have not been able to join in ubuntu member [13:04] persia: [13:05] Not this week, no. [13:05] next week yah persia [13:05] I don't happen to know offhand when the other boards meet, if you want to try one of them at an odd time, but if you want the evening meeting for Asia/Oceania, you will have to wait for the 26th. [13:05] No, week after next. [13:06] ok, what time persia [13:06] 10:00 UTC [13:06] thx [13:12] persia: where are u? === bladernr is now known as bladernr_ === ogra_ is now known as ogra [13:59] #startmeeting [13:59] Meeting started at 07:59. The chair is NCommander. [13:59] Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE] [13:59] [link] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileTeam/Meeting/2010/20101012 [13:59] LINK received: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileTeam/Meeting/2010/20101012 [14:00] A bit premature [14:00] o/ [14:00] G'day all [14:00] better early than late [14:00] true [14:00] o/ [14:00] * NCommander gives everyone a moment to appear before starting properly [14:00] Tell that to my Mrs ;) [14:00] Within a few seconds is better than most meetings time themselves. [14:00] Actually, right on time. [14:01] Good work all, 10.10 went out well, congratulations. [14:01] \o/ [14:01] and the world didn't explode [14:01] I consider tha an important bonus! [14:02] that's tomorrow's asteroid... [14:02] Or if it did, enough was reconstructed so that the difference is inobvious from the PoV of the average developer. [14:02] dyfet: maybe we'll get lucky and it will only squish Redmond or something :-P [14:02] anyway [14:02] [topic] Action Item Review [14:02] New Topic: Action Item Review [14:03] [topic] persia to close and/or postpone his remaining action items for 10.10 [14:03] New Topic: persia to close and/or postpone his remaining action items for 10.10 [14:03] Nothing shows up on the new WI tracker. [14:03] [topic] ogra + davidm to determine armel+omap4 releasability and notify the release team with the result [14:03] New Topic: ogra + davidm to determine armel+omap4 releasability and notify the release team with the result [14:04] long done [14:04] since we released apparently [14:04] NCommander to unassign himself from bugs [14:05] (a roll call at the begining of the meeting would have been nice btw) [14:05] * NCommander is assigned :-) [14:05] *unassigned [14:05] yeah, you were a bit over-enthusiastic :) [14:05] i assigned the flash-kernel breakage back to you [14:05] I reassigned that to myself :-/ [14:05] it wasnt [14:05] at least last night [14:05] argh [14:06] d'oh [14:06] whoops [14:06] well, it is now :) [14:06] [topic] Standing Item Review [14:06] New Topic: Standing Item Review [14:06] I don't tihnk there's much point to go over the work trackers [14:06] [topic] Kernel Status (cooloney, mpoirier, lag) [14:06] True [14:06] New Topic: Kernel Status (cooloney, mpoirier, lag) [14:07] * Texas Instruments (ti-omap) [14:07] * REBASE : ti-omap4 branch is now at Ubuntu-2.6.35-903.15 [14:07] * ON GOING : B605716 Regression from Karmic - corrected in Maverick - unsure what to do as the reporter has moved to Maverick. [14:07] * ON GOING : B637947 Kernel/userspace issue - lag is hosting a meeting with the top ASoC people today to discuss [14:07] * ON GOING : B535315 For some reason the net dev watchdog is timing out - more investigation needed. [14:07] * ON GOING : B613214 Regression from Karmic - working with user to bisect. [14:07] * ON GOING : B390959 For some reason the HID is recognising this keyboard as a joystick - more investigation needed. [14:07] * ON GOING : B22070 Looks like a USB issue, rectified in Maverick - need to fix Lucid. [14:07] * ON GOING : B43092 pata_pcmcia driver is not receiving correct IRQs - polling works, but was declined upstream. [14:07] * FIXED : B637947 Audio fixing was merged and released - still need some user space configuration to make audio fully work [14:07] * FIXED : B655746 HDMI bug fixing patch was merged. [14:07] * FIXED : B586386 ti-omap4 branch missed this fix which is required by the upstart userspace application. [14:07] * FIXED : B653002 An MLO patch was submitted to decrease the amount of occurence. [14:07] * FIXED : B592295 omapdss DISPC error: SYNC_LOST_DIGIT. [14:07] * FIXED : B605832 LG monitor behaving incorrectly when used in conjunction with the Panda board and HDMI. [14:07] * FIXED : B612895 Unable to handle kernel NULL pointer dereference at virtual address 00000000 - fix released. [14:07] * FIXED : B471228 Acer 5720 laptop will not wake from suspend - this issue has been rectified in Maverick. [14:07] * INVALID : B628029 Not a bug, suspend is just not available on this h/w yet. [14:07] * INVALID : B645420 Not a bug, USB OTG functionality is just not provided yet. [14:07] * PATCH : IGEPv2's 6 patches have been SRU'ed. (OMAP3) [14:07] * PATCH : The new set of ftrace patches have been submitted to linaro. (OMAP3) [14:07] * PATCH : Working with Vincent Rabin on the remaining "graph tracing" patches. (OM [14:07] Open those clients :) [14:07] s/open/widen [14:07] .. [14:08] Oh bottom! [14:08] * ogra has 1080p here [14:08] fits well [14:08] I've just realised (a lot of them aren't arm) [14:08] lag, Don't bother to fix it now. [14:08] well, for arm we mostly care about the audio stuff [14:08] k [14:08] ogra, it's not the resolution of the screen: it's also how one *uses* the client. [14:08] Yep [14:08] for which we have a meeting today [14:08] 2nd one down [14:08] * persia abhors fullscreen harder [14:10] I think I cna mov eon [14:10] [topic] QA Status (GrueMaster) [14:10] New Topic: QA Status (GrueMaster) [14:11] Images were tested with only a couple (kubuntu-mobile) seeing issues. [14:11] Work started on blueprints for UDS-N related to QA on armel. [14:11] Most kubuntu-mobile ARM folk are tweaking the image for use on N900s anyway, so that's only of moderate concern. [14:12] what do they do with the kernel and initrd then ? [14:12] ours wont boot [14:12] GrueMaster: what was the issue with kubuntu-mobile? [14:12] and without initrd oem-config wont run [14:13] (and they will run out of space very fast due to no resize happening) [14:13] Met with TI validation team. Some overlap, but not much. Their focus is on testing hardware & drivers to the maximum capabilities in a series of long test runs (over a week on dozens of systems). Our testing is more distro completeness centric. [14:13] ogra, Dunno: ask rbelem or ian_brasil: I think there's a script that does it, and some documentation. [14:14] persia, well, if they dont generate a new initrd and boot with it their image will be horribly broken [14:14] The kubuntu-mobile images are incomplete in that they look like a single partition, not a complete drive with partitions. [14:14] i dont really care about running our image on n900 [14:14] ogra, I have no detailed idea. [14:14] I know you don't care. they do. [14:14] right [14:14] so they should ask for the right way ;) [14:15] Point being that it's not that important that GrueMaster discovered issues. [14:15] i'm happy to give info ... but to lazy to hunt someone down [14:15] The images worked on RC. Not sure what changed. [14:15] Won't help: N900 isn't a fully open platform. [14:15] the kernel surely did [14:15] Anyway, enough of that. Just a note to say that it's not a showstopper for anyone that the images weren't perfect. [14:15] persia, they worked on beagle [14:16] No they did not. [14:16] they stopped working on beagle with final [14:16] * persia ran into OOM issues on beagle [14:16] erm, where did they work then ? [14:16] kubuntu-mobile final images never worked. [14:16] (if i say beagle blantly assume i say XM :) ) [14:16] RC did. [14:16] GrueMaster, but thats what i said [14:16] :) [14:17] And the kubuntu omap3 testing I did complete was on beagleXM. [14:17] indeed [14:17] no point in testing on C4 [14:17] Oh, XM worked fine. [14:17] omap4 and C4 didn't work, which doesn't matter, because the objectives are met. [14:17] omap4 still doesnt work ? [14:18] * ogra thought it did [14:18] C4 and XM are the same image. And Neither image (omap3 and omap4) worked for release. Both worked for RC. [14:18] k [14:18] As I am the QA guy, I know what I tested. [14:18] geez, you keep notes ?!? [14:18] one would hope [14:19] [topic] ARM Porting/FTBFS status (NCommander, dyfet) [14:19] New Topic: ARM Porting/FTBFS status (NCommander, dyfet) [14:19] * ogra is overwhelmed [14:19] Most of the ones I did last week were also security vulnerabilities [14:19] :) [14:19] GrueMaster, XM didn't work for release? Ah, yeah, that's probably annoying. [14:20] persia: image was incomplete. [14:20] Compare it with a different image. Run "file " and you will see immediately what I am talking about. [14:20] No need to test it on a platform. [14:20] Ah, right. Somehow I thought that was only the omap4 image. Oh well. [14:21] See bug 657281 [14:21] Launchpad bug 657281 in Ubuntu "Kubuntu Maverick on Omap3 & Omap4: screen goes black and never comes back" [Undecided,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/657281 [14:21] I added a note on the bottom detailing the issue. [14:21] * ogra doesnt get the reboot part [14:22] After the installation, the installer reboots the board and users are presented with the expected login prompt [14:22] Right. I just misread your comment. [14:22] i dont get what was tested there [14:22] none of omap3 or 4 images reboot after the installer was run [14:22] ogra, The description is kinda painful, mostly because it's second-hand. [14:22] ah [14:23] Basically, jasper works, boot works, oem-config works, reboot doesn't work. [14:23] well, i dont get why mpoirier couldnt file it himself either [14:23] mpoirier ran the test and reported to marjo (instead of filing the bug himself). [14:23] For that matter, even trying to log in post oem-config doesn't work on a C4 (but that's for OOM reasons) [14:23] right [14:23] right, screw C4 [14:23] I didn't file 'cause I thought someone would look at it right away... [14:23] * ogra wants an official note that we dont support it in natty [14:23] ask questions if you need more info. [14:24] File bugs so we can. [14:24] right [14:24] that bug wasnt triaged at all [14:24] i only heard about it when the final images were done already [14:24] Indeed. [14:24] in fact it still isnt [14:24] mpoirier, Please always file bugs. Nobody will look at anything that isn't findable. === yofel_ is now known as yofel [14:24] and triage them properly [14:25] it was friday before the release and the QA team was on. [14:25] (subscribe ubuntu-armel and add an armel tag if we should look at it) [14:25] the kubuntu was supposed to be waiting. [14:25] mpoirier, Doesn't matter. We're all responsible for everything, as much as we specialise. We can't expect anyone else to know what we mean, so we need to work with LP ourselves. [14:26] mpoirier, well, we would probably still have had time to fix it [14:26] we all returned saturday there was time for a respin [14:26] anyway [14:26] * persia only heard about it *late* saturday night. [14:27] * ogra heard about it late saturday night [14:27] too [14:27] * NCommander didn't see see any chatter in u-release until it was too late about it unfortunately :-/ [14:27] sat. morning would have given us the time needed [14:28] Anyway: problem was one person submitting information to another person. [14:28] anyway, move [14:28] NCommander, [14:28] We need to put stuff in LP, and notify teams and channels [14:28] ^^ [14:28] (yes, move) [14:28] [topic] ARM Porting/FTBFS status (NCommander, dyfet) [14:28] New Topic: ARM Porting/FTBFS status (NCommander, dyfet) [14:28]