/srv/irclogs.ubuntu.com/2010/10/12/#ubuntu-ops.txt

IdleOneikonia: I added some notes to https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Repositories/Ubuntu#Adding Repositories in Ubuntu concerning the Software Sources.00:03
IdleOnedinner....00:04
h00kLife just happens to hit during #release-party and I missed everything.00:10
tonyyarussosilly life00:11
h00kmah.00:14
h00kGood news, Mom's out of the hospital.00:14
h00kwooo00:14
tonyyarussothis is good00:14
IdleOneVery good news00:28
IdleOnefast dinner ;/00:28
Seeker`run after it then00:28
h00kaim lower. or higher00:28
IdleOnecaught it but it won't sit still long enough to eat00:29
IdleOneI am think a restraint of some sort00:29
IdleOnethinking00:29
IdleOnethinking of adding blog to planet00:31
IdleOnenot sure I want to add existing or make new00:32
tonyyarussoI still need to figure out what scheme I want to use for choosing which posts to push there.00:36
tonyyarussoI always get two or three (*always* Anonymous) comments whining about how some post shouldn't be on the planet.00:37
Picijust moderate those into oblivion00:37
tonyyarussoI do00:38
tonyyarussoIn before "zomgcensorship!" :P00:38
IdleOneI thought pretty much any goes within CoC on Planet Ubuntu00:40
IdleOneanything*00:40
IdleOnewow at failing to type complete words00:40
Picidon't worry, complete words are optional on the planet00:40
IdleOneheh, I'll fit in perfect00:41
tonyyarussoIt does, but that doesn't stop $random_idiot from complaining about it every stupid time it's not about uploading something to universe.00:41
PiciI've talked about IRC or LP the 4 times that I've posted to my blog.00:41
IdleOneI don't understand the whole !label thing00:42
IdleOne~label*00:42
IdleOneI think that is what is stopping me, ignorance is not always bliss00:42
IdleOneI bet there is a #ubuntu-planet or some such that I can ask00:43
h00kBryanstein: hello. How can we help you?00:43
PiciThe planet 'feeds' off of my Ubuntu category rss 'feed'00:43
IdleOneh00k: Bryanstein has "permission" to idle I believe00:44
PiciIdleOne: If you're using wordpress it should be at site.com/category/yourcategoryname/feed/00:45
IdleOneusing blogger00:45
Picio00:45
h00kIdleOne: ah00:45
tonyyarussoI post about politics from time to time, which apparently bothers people.  I've never taken it too seriously though because not one has been willing to put their name on their comment.00:46
IdleOneI think political posts are fine provided they are respectful of others beliefs.00:46
Picihttp://bloggerdesign.com/254/blogger-label-feeds/00:46
PiciI don't like political posts... But I don't really like politics at all, so...00:46
tonyyarussoGiven that Planet is supposed to be a "view into the lives of Ubuntu members", and that's become a significant portion of my life, it makes sense based on the stated guidelines that it should be okay.00:47
IdleOnewell then it isn't so much about the specific politics as it is politics in general for you00:47
IdleOnePici ^^00:48
IdleOnePici: thanks for the link but it still is not clear to me :/00:50
tonyyarussoI'll probably start employing a "planet" tag though, since I don't want it to be an exclusive category but it'd be nice to pick and choose occasionally.00:51
tonyyarussoSadly, Drivel doesn't support tags or multi-select categories for Drupal yet.00:51
ubottuIn #ubuntu-offtopic, AtomicSpark said: !this is really just AtomicSpark's blog01:08
JarrhedI got banned from #ubuntu-offtopi as Jantire, because I said "naggers"01:22
JarrhedI find that completely inappropriate and I wish to be unbanned immidately01:23
Jarrhed*#ubuntu-offtopic01:23
JarrhedYou see, the definition of "nagger" is (According to Google's define:) "one who nags"01:24
JarrhedAnd that is by no means a racial slur01:24
tonyyarussoThat may be, but given the context it is quite obvious that is not what you actually meant.01:24
JarrhedI said that all "naggers are terrorists"01:24
JarrhedPeople who annoy another can very well cause terror01:24
Jarrheddepending on the degree they annoy the individfual01:24
Jarrhed*individual01:24
tonyyarussoFirst you crossed the boundaries of o4o once.01:24
tonyyarussoThen someone explained the rules of conduct to you.01:25
JarrhedI did, and I was warned and I did not say anything else that was offensive afterwards01:25
tonyyarussoThen you expressed a disregard for such things existing and a desire to push the boundaries of the rules.01:25
IdleOnealso you were banned under this current nick01:25
JarrhedHow is saying "naggers" pushing the boundaries of the rules01:25
tonyyarussoThen you obviously changed the spelling of a word so you could waste our time with this discussion later.01:25
tonyyarussoProtip:  We're not that stupid.01:26
JarrhedOne could argue that you are wasting my time by wrongfully banning me from a chat channel01:26
JarrhedHowever, making an argument such as that would be of no benefit to me01:26
tonyyarussoThe fact that you even thought to say "And that is by no means a racial slur" without being given any reason for your removal shows that you already know darn well what you were going for and why you were removed.01:26
tonyyarussoSo in short, you just signed your own confession by doing that.  Nice work.01:27
JarrhedWell, I am aware that the word "naggers" could be interpreted as "n*****s"01:27
Jarrhedand I was clarifying the meaning behind it01:27
JarrhedBecause I was obviously misunderstood01:27
tonyyarussoyeah, not terribly convincing.01:28
JarrhedProve it.01:28
JarrhedWhy would I knowingly push the boundaries of the rules when I would know the end result would be a ban01:28
JarrhedWhen I wish to remain to be able to speak with others in the Ubuntu's offtopic discussion01:29
tonyyarussoI don't have to prove it - the onus is on you, not us.01:29
Fishscene"(5:20:57 PM) Jarrhed: My account (Jantire) got banned from #ubuntu-offtopic for saying "naggers"..."01:29
JarrhedWhat is the email of your supervisor?01:30
tonyyarussoWho?01:30
IdleOne!appeals > Jarrhed01:30
ubottuJarrhed, please see my private message01:30
JarrhedThank you01:31
IdleOneWelcome.01:31
JarrhedThe supervisor of tonyyarusso01:31
* tonyyarusso has no supervisor01:31
Seeker`tonyyarusso: thats what you think. I'm watching you!01:31
IdleOneyou have the link to the process to follow if you wish to appeal01:32
* charlie-tca is a volunteer, without a supervisor too01:32
IdleOneJarrhed: I assume you will be appealing so the discussion is over for now. Please part the channel.01:33
FishsceneI guess for future reference, it might be wise to pick and choose words carefully and try to avoid words that might possibly be misconstrued as a racist slur.01:33
JarrhedFishsene: Thank you01:33
JarrhedI will do so01:33
JarrhedHave a good day everyone01:33
FishsceneNP mate.01:33
IdleOneFishscene: How can we help you?01:34
FishsceneActually, I was just on my way out.01:34
FishsceneLater days.01:34
charlie-tcahm, this is just like prison. No one ever commits a crime, but they get sent their anyway01:35
Seeker`noone ever does anything wrong on IRC01:36
Seeker`it was always their brother01:36
IdleOneI blame my cat and mother01:36
IdleOneeither have equal chances of touching my keyboard and randomly hitting keys01:36
charlie-tcaI'm thinking someone else was on my keyboard01:36
tonyyarussos'jg  s iof io  0ae0 9[a  90[ag[ 0a[ g h oi hasf dzs hidasdo ghe0g aspogih s ;g ;aghio01:42
tonyyarussoI blame that on my future children.  Apparently they're smart enough to invent time travel.01:42
tonyyarussoBut yet can't type a coherent sentence.01:42
charlie-tcaI think it was when I was watching tv instead of my keyboard...01:43
IdleOnemarkboston reminds me a lot of killahaxz from earlier02:08
Chaos2358are there any ops present?02:28
IdleOnewhat's up02:28
Chaos2358ok first off i know this isn't the place to ask this but as an op i figured you guys would know. is there a channel for questions about game system emulators on ubuntu?02:29
nhandlerYou can find channels about a certain topic by using alis: /msg alis list *TOPIC* Chaos235802:29
Chaos2358ok that works even better thank you02:29
ubottuIn ubottu, ZGHirc said: bot is clever05:13
persiaubottu, You know better than that.05:14
ubottuError: I am only a bot, please don't think I'm intelligent :)05:14
persiaRight.05:14
ubotturww called the ops in #ubuntu (Keal)05:23
ubottuIn #ubuntu-offtopic, rww said: !#ubuntu =~ s/other/non-support/06:46
tonyyarussosay, what do we recommend now that ebox has gone commercial?07:09
elky"gone commercial"?07:12
tonyyarussohttp://www.zentyal.com/en/products/server/07:13
tonyyarussoThey charge for security updates.07:13
persiaWe probably ought to construct some special flavour to fill that gap.07:15
jussioh dear.07:22
elkyjussi, you'll be at UDS? We can deal with him there.07:22
* elky packs the cluebat collection.07:23
jussielky: you are going to UDS?07:23
elkyjussi, yes.07:23
jussiok07:23
tonyyarussowhere is UDS this time?07:26
jussiOrlando07:26
tonyyarussoah07:26
* tonyyarusso would like to go to that some day07:27
* mneptok is still trying to determine whether or not he is going to UDS07:41
mneptoki'll get to that when i get home from Istanbul07:41
macomneptok: whatcha doin in constantinople?07:42
mneptokreclaiming it for the Roman Empire. and having a company meeting.07:42
mneptoknot necessarily in that order.07:43
* persia thought the last heir ran off to paris in 1917 abdicating the claim, and wonders who will be propped up as a figurehead07:46
macohuh. that song was a cover when They Might Be Giants did it. didnt know that.07:47
ubottuglebihan called the ops in #ubuntu (denisubuntu repeatedly ignoring guidelines)07:47
mneptokpersia: i expect to be name Preator Of The Supercluster soon07:56
mneptok*Praetor07:56
persiad07:56
mneptokOK, off to the Grand Bazaar. bbl.07:57
tonyyarussoYou know, you'd think that if a staff member got disconnected all the time they'd try to fix the problem :P07:58
KB1JWQYeah.07:59
persiaMight be sleeping, or otherwise inattentive.08:02
tonyyarussoStaff aren't allowed to sleep.08:05
KB1JWQSure we are.08:08
elkyThis is them lucid. You want to throw in sleep deprivation psychosis?08:11
tonyyarussosure - cheap entertainment08:17
ikoniareally frustrated with an ubuntu bug I've just fixed10:09
ikoniafuming infact10:09
persiawhich bug?10:09
ikoniaI've had it open for 3 releases, to be told all kinds of junk about it, lost my rag, have a conversation with the developers of the product and it turns out it's simpley a lack of understanding for how the products changed10:09
ikonia57803510:10
ikoniaI've had too identical bugs logged and closed and had to fight to get this one open10:11
ikoniait's just been resoled, but only because I spoke to the developers myself10:11
persiaThat's almost always the best way to sort a bug.10:11
ikoniaseems no point logging a bug then10:12
ikoniaif the answer is "solve it yourself"10:12
persiaOh, that bug.  Far as I can tell the responsible program switches around randomly every release.10:13
persiaPoint of logging them is to encourage collaboration with the solve-it-yourself bit.10:13
ikoniano, it doesn't10:13
ikoniait's always been gnome-leyring10:13
ikoniaand the ubuntu package mantainers should have owned it10:14
persiaFirstly, it's switched between seahorse, gnome-keyring, and ssh-askpass-gnome a couple times.10:14
persiaSecondly, one of the founding points of Ubuntu is that there are no Maintainers.10:14
ikonianot for this issue it's not10:14
ikoniaso there is no package maintainers ?10:14
persiaThe fails-to-usefully-prompt-you-about-ssh-passwords-and-fails-to-cache issue?10:15
persiaNo, there are no package maintainers.10:15
ikoniano, there is no package maintainer for gnome-keyring ?10:15
persiaFolks just fix whatever they feel like fixing.  Folks that fix a lot stop needing peer review.10:15
persiaNope.10:15
ikoniaso no-one in the ubuntu developmeent team packages that or takes reponsability for that package ?10:15
persiaRight.10:17
persiaThe Desktop team tends to care for it, just because it's part of Desktop and they care about Desktop, but it's not like a formal assignment or anything.10:17
ikoniano wonder peoples perception is that bugs don't get fixed10:17
ikoniathat must be great for people using LTS releases in a business or SME envionrment10:18
ikoniautter fail10:18
persiaNo.  It's intentional.10:18
persiaThe idea is that when there is a solution for a bug, *anyone* can get it fixed.10:19
persiaThis is cool and interesting, and 5 years ago, was a new idea.10:19
persiaPrior to that people would be responsible for packages, and if there was a bug and someone else had a solution, they would have to convince that person to fix it.10:19
ikoniathen it's intentional fail10:19
ikoniait's not cool or interesting10:19
ikoniait's a failure10:19
persiaSomeone wrote a blog post back in 2006 comparing the Fedora and Ubuntu policies: that in Fedora a person got sponsored, and then could work on the packages they brought with them, whereas in Ubuntu the bugfix was sponsored, even if the person had no prior reputation.10:20
ikoniait's clearly not working10:20
ikoniaas no-one has responsability to actually progress a bug10:20
ikoniawhich explains the perception of nothing gets fixed10:20
persiaWell, it's intentional.  If you want package maintainers, find a distribution that still believes in this.  Most of the big ones are moving to collaborative teams and away from personal responsibility.10:20
ikoniaI don't disagree you can collaberate10:21
ikoniabut with no-one owning the relevant packages there is no responsability to either remove false bugs, or pogress ones that are genuine/important10:21
ikoniabut, perhaps I do need to switch desktop distributions10:21
persiaThe idea is that everyone can participate in this.10:21
ikoniaI'm crazy in thinking LTS got support10:21
persiaYou can buy support.  Lots of providers for that.10:22
ikonialots of others just fix their own problems10:22
persiaBut for free, you only get the support that happens by accident, or as a side effect of others purchase decisions.10:22
ikoniathat maybe ubuntus stance, for free you get what happens by accident10:22
ikoniathats a great quote10:22
ikoniathe bug process is broke, and the perception is that bugs doens't get fixed, I now understand why, thank you10:23
persiaI encourage you to help the bugsquad: if you know about solutions, or are willing to work with upstreams, there's no reason you can't ensure the bugs that bother you are fixed in Ubuntu.10:23
ikoniabugsquad is a joke10:24
jpdsI don't get it.10:25
ikoniayou've made the policy quite clear, you want something fixing, fix it yourself, if not use a different distro, I'll help myself and not bother with bugs10:25
ikoniaand that's not meant as a dig, thats just clarified how things work10:25
persiaWhy is bugsquad a joke?  It's the team that accepts repsonsibility to try to process all the bugs: I thought that was precisely what you wanted.10:29
persiaAnyway, all of Ubuntu is predicated on the premise that if anyone involved in Ubuntu in any way has a way to fix something, they will fix it in the primary archives.  In practice, people don't appear to do that always, but it remains a goal.10:32
ikoniapersia: yes and it doesn't work, they closed this bug twice maked it as incomplete, and did everything but progress it10:36
ikoniaand I see exampels of this all the time with bug squad10:36
ikoniathe only ral value is removing duplicates from what I see10:36
ikoniareal10:36
persiaSome members of the bugsquad are more enthusiastic than competent, sure, but I think it's unfair to say that of everyone.10:39
ikoniaI'm not saying everyone10:40
ikoniabut enthusiasm over competency for progressing bugs is not acceptable10:40
ikoniaread the fist post in that bug as an example, I had bugs logged that I could find, when I checked harder they had been closed10:41
persiaI agree.  More folks helping not do that in bugsquad would improve the ratio.10:41
ikoniaagreed10:41
ikoniaor a vetting process10:41
persiaThere's a bit of one for some things, but the idea is for everyone to participate, in accordance with the CoC, and with care.10:42
persiaI believe in the ideal, as much as I know it doesn't always work as well as we'd like in practice.10:42
ikoniathen that's a failure10:42
ikoniait still needs trusted people lead the bug, rather than anyone gong nuts on it, anyone being allowed to join the bugsquad10:43
ikoniaanyone should be able to contribute10:43
ikoniabut through a conduit group/person10:43
persiaAgain, one of the reasons Ubuntu exists is specifically because it was awkward to work around such conduits.10:44
ikoniaand it's one of the reasons bugs are not progressing or being progressed wrongly10:45
ikoniait's a double edged knife10:45
persiaPersonally, I'd not be involved with Ubuntu if it needed conduits: it was specifically the lack of conduits that got me involved.10:45
persiaYes, it is very much double-edged.10:45
persiaAnd it requires a lot more of many of us to ensure that we can keep from being hit from the other side, and we're not doing as much as we should.10:46
ikoniaI guess as you say, if you don't like the policy switch to a different distro10:46
persiaI'd be sad to see anyone leave for that reason, but essentially, yeah.10:46
persiaI'd prefer folks help make that policy less painful for everyone.10:46
ikoniawell thats what I think is best, if I log a bug I expect it to be progrssed, not have to fight to keep it open and then end up doing %100 of the leg work myself10:46
ikoniaI also expect the people in the bug squad to be compitent and trained not let anyone in10:47
persiaI guess.  It's because I was *allowed* to do the legwork and *allowed* to get the fix into Ubuntu when I finally found it that I became an Ubuntu developer.10:47
ikoniathats personal opinion though, not a critisism of the process10:47
persiaDon't forget the other edge of the knife.10:47
persiaFair :)10:48
ikoniaI've never had problems getting fixes into other distros, so I dont see that side the knife as broken10:48
ikoniaand as maintainers for other distros I appreciated the filtered quality coming through the chain, rather than idiots sending "I rebooted and it worked, is it fixed"10:48
ikoniabut that's personal opinion10:48
persiaI suppose.  The environment was different when Ubuntu was created.  Stuff like updating the default python version, using current GNOME, using current GCC, using modular X, etc. were new ideas, and most distros wouldn't accept them.10:50
jussiLads, there is likely a better channel for this discussion, no?10:50
persiaThe environment is different now.10:50
persiajussi, is there one?10:50
* persia agrees it's well off-topic, but doesn't know if it's on-topic anywhere10:50
jussipersia: -offtopic I suppose, but yeah.10:51
persiaikonia, Are we done, or shall I join -offtopic? :)10:51
ikoniapersia: if -offtopic was worth having a genuine serious discussion in, I'd love to continue, but as it's a pit for people to make stupid comments, hit the bot and say lol - I'd say probably better done10:52
persiaikonia, Works for me :)  if you get another bug that's bothering you, come to #ubuntu-bugs, and lets try to sort it the other way without letting 3 releases go by :)10:52
ikoniapersia: been through all that, that's how I found the bugs had been closed10:53
ikoniahence my comment of " a joke" when you get reponses like "wait until the next release"10:53
persiaYeah, but done :)10:53
ikoniaagreed, responses where appreciated though, even if I didn't seem positive about them10:54
ubottuIn #ubuntu, rumbert said: ubottu: UEC is Ubuntu Enterprise Cloud11:24
jribikonia: you following malicai on ##windows?11:34
ikoniajrib: no, I'll look11:34
ikoniajrib: interesting conlflict of info between ##windows and #ubuntu11:35
ikoniapopey: 9:58 -!- sam_jbot [~sam@host81-156-14-216.range81-156.btcentralplus.com]12:02
ikoniais that mesula/sam/xasdfsd12:02
popeynot sure, has been sane12:05
ikoniaha12:05
popeybeen in and out over the last few weeks12:05
popeyin other news... http://paste.ubuntu.com/12:05
ikoniajust curious as the known sam guy is now connecting from a swansea uni IP12:05
popeylook at the ubuntu logo12:05
popeythe word "ubuntu" in white text is over the top of the logo12:05
ikoniaI don't see it12:06
ikonia(can't highlight it)12:06
popeythe text is "Ubuntu Pastebin"12:07
ikoniawhat am I missing ?12:07
ikonialooks like the normal logo and text12:07
popeyhttp://twitpic.com/2wyla112:08
bazhangbigbrovar, hi, how can we help you12:11
ikoniaahhh I see12:14
elkypopey, I see it too...12:44
* elky headdesks12:44
bazhang [vipul] (~j0k3r@113.19.129.140): j0k3r  looks like bihari12:58
bazhangPM'd him and asked him to exit, he did13:00
bazhangcame back right away though.13:03
Picibazhang: Are you sure thats him?13:04
bazhangPici, yes, 100% certain13:04
bazhanghe was trying to get a new cloak with that a few days ago. then grouped the j0k3r nick to the old one13:05
Picibazhang: Did you mention to staff that he might be doing that do evade a ban?13:05
bazhangPici, yes, ikonia and both were there, when he was asking for a cloak; I did not PM them directly though.13:06
bazhangie a new , second cloak13:06
bazhangbihari, hi13:08
bazhangbihari, you were just ban evading using the vipul nickname13:08
biharihi bazhang why you baned?13:09
bihari me13:09
biharivipul nick whats wrong in it ?13:10
bazhangbihari, nothing, but you are banned. changing IP address to get around it is not OK13:11
biharii am not changing13:12
bihariand i said sory for that to ikonia13:12
biharithats my ISP provide me the IP13:12
biharithats not mine fault13:12
biharibazhang,  but i appolizes what  i did and i said sory for that and i really love this OS13:13
bazhangbihari, first you were using a cloak, then removed it to get back in. this is not the first time for you to ban evade.13:14
biharii got clock13:15
bihari?13:15
bazhangunaffiliated/bihari-/x-816711013:15
biharimy nic is bihari_13:15
biharithis bihari is the state in india13:16
bihariit's state name in india13:16
bihariand my nick is bihari_13:16
biharibazhang,  i really don't find any reasone of banning me13:18
bazhang<bihari_> so that i can bypass my college firewall13:19
bazhangbihari, that was the original reason.13:19
bazhangbihari, since then you have changed IP multiple times and dropped your cloak to get back in, even though your original ban was never lifted.13:20
biharibazhang,  yah i said sory for that if you think it's offensive as you don't know my professor told me to do this13:20
bazhangits not offensive, it is not supported.13:21
biharii am engineering student and we are used to make security and enhanced it trust me :) it's just for ethic and knowleg13:21
bazhangwell try somewhere other than #ubuntu13:21
bihariand if you thinks it's offensive then i am really sory for that13:21
bazhangno, not offensive.13:21
bazhangnot supported.13:21
bihariyes said that :) sory for that and i will never do this again in future13:22
bazhangbihari, you are still banned in #ubuntu13:22
bihariwhy you are so harsh on me :( i am just 18 year student and i have curosity to know about this open source :( why you doing this to me13:23
bazhangbihari, I dont feel confident about letting you back in at this time; you have ban-evaded so many times and not been honest about it.13:23
biharioh god.13:24
biharibazhang,  what i have to do? to come back in ubuntu channel ?13:26
bazhangbihari, as I said , I'm not confident in your behavior to let you back in right now13:27
persiabihari, I'd recommend hanging out in some other Ubuntu channels (maybe #ubuntu-in, or #ubuntu-offtopic or other places you might not be banned) and demonstrating good practices.13:28
bihariok now i am just swtiching off this ubuntu and also all the work and activity which  i am doing for ubuntu in my college and in saminar13:28
persiaDunno if that would be sufficient, but it has worked for some other people in the past.13:28
bazhang+113:28
bihariand now i am really got hurt by you guys13:28
* persia meant no harm, and shuts up rather than cause more offens13:29
biharibye13:29
Pici*sigh*14:13
PiciAnother release, another bunch of people who give bad advice on how to upgrade.14:13
bazhangyikes14:13
Pici"update-manager -d","no its do-release-upgrade -d", "no, you should just need to apt-get dist-upgrade"14:14
persiaWhy are any of those bad?14:16
persiaUntil Natty happens, the first two ought work, and the third oughtn't break too much.14:16
charlie-tcato upgrade from 9.04?14:17
Picipersia: Because natty is fast approaching. And the last one was given without any other instructions. Just dist-upgrade and you get the new release.14:17
persiaAha.  Right.14:17
PiciAnd -d is a bad idea unless you know what you're doing.14:17
Tm_Tpersia: the learn poosibly dangerous method once, they rely on it14:17
persiaI wonder if there oughtn't be a -t that is kinda like -d but only starts working post-beta14:18
charlie-tcaI have upgraded for three releases using -d at alpha214:18
persiacharlie-tca, Right, but it's not best to use -d two weeks *after* release.14:18
persiaThe issue being that what works for +1 isn't necessarily safe for release.14:19
PiciRight,.14:19
charlie-tcacorrect.14:19
persiaSo, anyway, does anyone think it's worth having -t?14:20
persiaIf someone writes up a rationale, etc. for it, I'm more than happy to track down the code bits that need moving, assuming it doesn't get torn apart at UDS.14:20
PiciI'm not sure I get what the point of -t is. Could you re-explain?14:20
persia-t would be like -d, but safer.  It would only work once a release moved to beta, which means if people used it immediately post-release, it wouldn't drop them in a world of pain.14:21
persiaMind you, it's just a workaround to avoid the social engineering of convincing all the +1 folk to give new advice once the release happens.14:21
PiciI think it'll get nixed at UDS myself.14:24
persiaWhy?14:25
macoi like the idea...14:25
* Pici shrugs14:25
PiciMaybe I'm wrong.14:25
macodoes t = test?14:26
persiaThat was the semantic basis for my decision to select that letter, yes.14:26
jussianyone know of a simple, easy to use, free  irc client for windows?15:42
PiciI personally usually use freenode's webchat or mibbit if I need to.15:43
PiciIf I can't ssh that is.15:43
h00kputty/screen15:45
h00kmIRC is free for a bit, anyway15:45
Picior putty rather.15:46
PiciRight.15:46
Tm_Tputty works in windows too15:56
Tm_T...I meant irssi (:15:56
* Tm_T needs more coffee15:56
* h00k slides Tm_T a cup15:57
Tm_Tjussi: I also used Xircon at some point15:58
jussithanks peoples... Im not lookin for me, but for a windows friend. think Ill recommend quassel...16:29
* popey recommends colloquy16:58
popeybut that requires them to buy a mac or an iphone ;)16:58
popeyI belive this to be just as helpful as people suggesting irssi :p16:59
persiapopey, Why?  See http://www.irssi.org/files/irssi_0_8_12_setup_2.exe17:00
h00kTheDeadCPU and Android001 were double-team-trolling with rm -rf /, for reference. I /queried them and asked them to stop17:00
h00kfor reference.17:00
jussih00k: use @mark ;)17:01
h00kI always forget @mark17:01
ikoniagot rid of android, he knows what he's doing17:02
jpdsDoesn't jussi go by the nick of android?17:02
jussiyes17:02
ikonia on occasion17:03
jussibut not android00117:03
Picijussi: you're doing it again.17:03
jussigrr17:03
Pici:)17:03
jussialways forget17:03
* h00k notes17:03
ikonia?17:03
ikoniadoing what17:03
PiciStaying authed as the IRCC account.17:04
popeypersia: I meant the "screen and irssi" suggestions17:04
ikoniaah17:04
popeyhowever I didnt know it was available for windows, thanks!17:04
persiapopey, screen is also available for windows, and putty -> unix shell is very common.17:04
ikonia#ubuntu is in a mess for some reason17:11
Piciikonia: someone asked linenoise if they should use debian.17:13
ikonianot quite,17:13
ikoniathey asked about other distros because they couldn't get ubuntu working17:13
ikoniahe then went off to explain why debian is better17:13
PiciI must have missed part of that.17:14
IdleOnerecommending debian is fine, the putting down of ubuntu while doing it is what bothers me.17:14
IdleOneno need to say one distro is crap while recommending another17:14
IdleOneGood morning btw17:19
Picihi!17:19
h00kwoo.17:20
IdleOneSo i missed dpm classroom session but he was MIA.17:20
h00kIt is a mess, but it is just after a release17:22
IdleOneHow do the rest of you feel about the nick Nazzy?19:53
PiciWhats wrong with it?19:54
PiciDo I need to urbandict it?19:54
IdleOnenope19:54
IdleOnenothing wrong with it really, just how it sounds in my head I guess19:54
topylinatty!19:56
ikoniaguys, why has +1 been set to invite only19:57
ikoniaafter all the discussion in here about just muting it19:58
ikoniawhy has it now been set to +119:58
ikoniaset to +i for +119:58
PiciBecause thats what we normally do?19:59
IdleOneI suppose to avoid having users msg +v and +o asking why they can't talk in the channel20:00
ikoniabut there was a whole discussion in here about not closing it20:00
ikoniaand leaving it open +m20:00
PiciWhats the point?20:00
ikoniaPici: I agree that's what we normally do, but after the drawn out discussion / debate that went on here, it was agreed to leave it open20:00
ikoniaPici: I agree it should have been closed20:00
IdleOneI didn't see that discussion. I am ok with it being +i or +m, whatever20:00
PiciI wasn't here for the discussion.20:01
ikoniaI'm just wondering what a pointless waste of time it is discussing anything, agreeing it, then doing the opposite20:01
ikoniaPici: I know, I'm not bothered it's gone, I just think we are suffering from bad orginisation and communication again20:01
Picijussi, nhandler, topyli, tsimpson ^^^ regarding +1?20:01
ikoniaPici: was it you that cleared it out of interest ?20:02
Pici(also maybe we should have an ops-like ircc command for ubottu)20:02
Piciikonia: Nope.20:02
ts2iirc, the point was just not to clear it20:03
ts2as users didn't understand why they were kicked20:04
jussiI didnt do it....20:06
ikoniaI don't actually care who did it, I'm bothered that we are once again not communicating decisions like this20:08
ikoniahas it actually been cleared or is it just my client that's been disconnected20:09
IdleOnehas 140 users in it right now20:10
ikonialooks like I've gone off on one about a mistake on my part20:10
ikoniamy client died and couldn't get back in, it wasn't cleared20:10
* Pici pats ikonia 20:10
IdleOne/attach #ubuntu+120:10
ikoniaodd that none of the other channels in my client appear to have been disconnected though #20:10
PiciYou can use chanserv to invite yourself back in if you want.20:10
ikonia(normally you at leat see reconnect)20:10
Piciikonia: you pinged out of here20:10
ikonianah, it's fine, I was more worried that we had lost commuinication again rather than being in the channel20:11
ikoniadon't know why irssi doesn't show the disconnect on any other client though20:11
ikoniaany other channel though20:11
IdleOneyou pinged at HH:55:1620:12
ikoniamy fault, sorry20:12
charlie-tcafor us normal users, it redirects to #ubuntu when connecting20:13
lindsaymobil22ikonia, look your community is really gonna get bad ratings for this21:00
IdleOneumm chaos asked her what the problem was, she probably missed seb's answer. just saying21:00
ikonialindsaymobil22: I've removed you from the channel on a temporary basis21:00
ikonialindsaymobil22: I asked you to stop asking the same question, two people where trying to help you21:00
lindsaymobil22This is one reason i didnt use ubuntu, the community was always so mean21:00
lindsaymobil22ikonia, did you not see that 1 guy wanted to see the question again!21:01
ikonialindsaymobil22: if your missing the responses we can help you use IRC a little better21:01
ikonialindsaymobil22: but you can't sit in the channel spamming the same question over and over when people are giving you the answer21:01
lindsaymobil22ikonia, people arent understanding the context of that question21:01
Pici(Chaos2358 asked what the question was)21:01
lindsaymobil22ikonia, i know how to use irc i aint a n00b21:01
ikonialindsaymobil22: thats fine, then repeating it over and over won't help them understand21:01
lindsaymobil22Pici, +121:01
ikonialindsaymobil22: ok - then you've just lost all slack21:02
ikonialindsaymobil22: if you know how to use IRC then you know that spamming/flooding the channel is unacceptable21:02
ikoniatherefore you're banned21:02
lindsaymobil22What a horrible community21:02
ikoniaI was about to remove the ban after just asking you to pay a little more attention21:02
lindsaymobil22Thanks a lot21:02
lindsaymobil22Really people's stereotypes on communities of certain distros are correct21:03
ikoniaok21:03
lindsaymobil22Im outta here, dont wanna spend another minute putting up with this21:03
ikoniaok21:04
rwwHey. chien in #ubuntu has been coming into there since at least the 6th (which is when my logfiles last reset, iirc) and speaking in a mix of Spanish and French, despite being told repeatedly the correct channels for non-English discussion by users and ops. At this point, a banforward to #ubuntu-fr might be useful ;)23:34
rwwor #ubuntu-franish, if we have that ;P23:34
rwwawesome, he's progressed to cussing in French23:37
h00kI suck.23:38
Seeker`h00k: yes. yes you do.23:38
rwwh00k: nah, we just need to realign your sleep schedule so you're around when the other ops aren't ;P23:39
Seeker`:P23:39
rwwanyways, thanks everyone :)23:39
h00kSeeker`: apologized in /query Chetic23:40
Seeker`h00k: :)23:40
* h00k facepalms23:41
Seeker`hmm?23:41
h00kbah, I just feel silly23:41
h00k@login23:43
ubottuThe operation succeeded.23:43
h00k@btlogin23:43
h00kFor some reason, I cannot use ubottu to invite Chatic back to #ubunut. Do I need to be +o at the time/23:43
Seeker`no idea23:44
h00k#ubuntu, rather.23:44
h00k17:44 [ubottu] Error: You don't have the #ubuntu,op capability. If you think that you should have this capability, be sure that  you are identified before trying again. The 'whoami' command can tell you if you're identified.23:44
IdleOnecan't you use chanserv to invite?23:44
h00kSyntax: INVITE <#channel>23:46
IdleOneyes I know but I meant can chanserv be used to invite a user23:46
h00kI thought, I just haven't figured it out yet23:47
h00k+gisn't set, which is allow anyone to invite23:47
IdleOnedoesn't look like it23:48
IdleOneh00k: yeah i don't think it will be set either23:48
h00k17:52 [Chetic] aah no problem! thank you for being so polite about it :)23:54
h00kPhew!23:55
IdleOnemistakes happen :)23:56
ubottuIn #ubuntu-offtopic, rww said: !piracytoo is <reply> Arrrrrrrr!23:59

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