[05:07] <drew212> vish: are you around?
[06:26] <mistrynitesh> for sound related issues like headphones not working, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Bugs/FindRightPackage#Sound asks to file the bug against 'alsa-base' package. However, http://packages.ubuntu.com/maverick/alsa-base asks bug to be filed against 'alsa-driver'. Does wiki needs updating? Also launchpad does not have 'alsa-base' in it search list of packages that can be assigned to a bug in ubuntu.
[06:33] <persia> "alsa-driver" is the source package that generates the "alsa-base" binary package.
[06:33] <persia> `ubuntu-bug alsa-base` will correctly file a bug against the "alsa-driver" source package.
[06:34] <mistrynitesh> but if someone has filed a bug without specifying the package, and I want to assign it, then I have two different suggestions at these two resources.
[06:35] <persia> It's the same thing.
[06:35] <mistrynitesh> actually i was looking at a list of bugs without package specified and trying to assign bugs to appropriate package
[06:37] <persia> Right, but "alsa-base" and "alsa-driver" are the same package from the viewpoint of LP bugs (which tracks source packages).
[06:37] <persia> It's important to tell folk to file their bug with `ubuntu-bug alsa-base` to collect the right information.
[06:38] <persia> That ends up being tracked in launchpad under https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/alsa-driver/+bugs
[06:38] <mistrynitesh> yes, like in bug 659200, the reporter did not specify the package
[06:38] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 659200 in alsa-driver (Ubuntu) "No headphone sound after upgrading from 10.04 to 10.10 (affects: 1) (heat: 8)" [Undecided,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/659200
[06:38] <persia> And you set it.  Good job.
[06:39] <mistrynitesh> so checking the wiki page I gave 'alsa-base' in the package field, but launchpad gave it 'alsa-driver' and returned the message "'alsa-base' is a binary package. This bug has been assigned to its source package 'alsa-driver' instead."
[06:39] <persia> Right.
[06:40] <persia> You might find the output of `apt-cache showsrc alsa-base` interesting as further information about this.
[06:40] <mistrynitesh> so my point is, should wiki be modified to say 'alsa-driver' directly? For whatever it is worth
[06:40] <persia> No.
[06:41] <persia> Because the binary package actually installed on user systems is "alsa-base".
[06:41] <persia> That the source package ("alsa-driver") has a different name isn't important.
[06:41] <persia> But if one runs `ubuntu-bug alsa-driver`, apport will point out that the "alsa-driver" package isn't installed, which is expected, as it doesn't exist as a binary package.
[06:41] <mistrynitesh> ok, got it... because the ubuntu-bug will have to use the binary package
[06:42] <mistrynitesh> thanks persia for clarifying
[06:42] <persia> Right.
[06:42] <persia> Thanks for helping make sure all the bugs are assigned to the right packages.
[06:44] <mistrynitesh> hope it doesn't bother too much on the channel, but since I am 'technically' challenged, I find it imperative to double check here
[06:48] <persia> No, it's really appreciated, for a few reasons.
[06:50] <persia> Firstly, lots of other people may be unsure, and too shy to ask.  Secondly, it's better to ask here before committing the change to launchpad and sending mail to a bunch of folk that can never be unsent.  Thirdly, it helps build your interactions with others, so you folk consider you part of bugsquad and you feel connected to them: this will help a lot when you apply for bug control.
[06:54]  * mistrynitesh is wondering if he will ever be able to join bug control
[07:05] <mistrynitesh> now that you have encouraged me so much, I am going to spam this channel for a while :P
[07:06] <mistrynitesh> for bug 659668, i intend to assign it to 'linux' and ask the reporter to do the following: "Thank you for taking the time to report this bug and helping to make Ubuntu better. Unfortunately, we can't fix it without more information.
[07:06] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 659668 in ubuntu "Ubuntu does not suspend for Lenovo Thinkpad T500 (affects: 1) (heat: 6)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/659668
[07:06] <mistrynitesh> Please run the following command which will attach necessary information:
[07:06] <mistrynitesh> apport-collect 659668
[07:06] <mistrynitesh> Bear in mind that you may need to install the python-launchpadlib package from the universe repository with 'sudo apt-get install python-launchpadlib'. Additionally, when prompted to give apport-collect permissions for Launchpad you will need to give it at least the ability to "Change Non-Private" data as it will be adding information to your bug report.
[07:06] <mistrynitesh> We would also like to know if you are facing this problem for the first time in 10.10 or did you have same issues in 10.04 as well (in case you were using 10.04 before installing 10.10)?
[07:08] <mistrynitesh> sorry that was unintended. I just copied the text from launchpad :(
[07:09] <persia> Assigning to linux makes sense.  Asking the reporter to submit details if you don't have the same T500 makes sense.  Too much text in the channel isn't ideal :)
[07:09] <persia> Often, when asking for confirmation of a specific response, it's best to point to an entry in the wiki or use the pastebin.
[07:12] <RedSingularity> Anyone know when the next bug meeting is?
[07:12] <mistrynitesh> I am using the launchpad-improvment scripts. It makes life really easy
[07:13] <persia> RedSingularity, They tend to happen about monthly, but it's rarely worth waiting for one for most issues.
[07:13] <persia> RedSingularity, Why do you ask?
[07:15] <RedSingularity> persia: I know there was one today but I couldnt attend.  I want to make sure I attend the next one.
[07:16] <persia> Do you have something specific you want to raise at it, or just curious what happened?
[07:16] <RedSingularity> Just curious
[07:16] <persia> Attendance at the meetings is very much not required, or I'd be in trouble with my membership in Bug Control :)
[07:16] <persia> There's logs at irclogs.ubuntu.com
[07:17] <RedSingularity> Oh ok, I thought it was a requirement.  I will have a look at the logs though.  Thanks :)
[07:22] <persia> I think I manage to make maybe two meetings a year.  I do check the agendas, and read the logs though: if I have something to say that wasn't represented in the meeting, I'll share it, and if I have input I think is essential to go into a meeting I'll ask someone else to please mention it.
[07:23] <persia> But 90% of the time just sending something to the mailing list is enough: the meeting is mostly only useful for quick summaries, discussion of stuff that got stalled, or cleanly handling arguments about how to implement something.
[07:32] <mistrynitesh> if a reporter complains about poor sound quality in the latest release and not 'no sound', should it be assigned to 'linux' or 'alsa-base'? also should the reporter be asked to apport-collect the bug?
[07:35] <persia> "poor sound quality" needs a lot more information.
[07:35] <persia> It's usually alsa-base, and once set, needs apport-collect, but there are corner cases.
[07:36] <persia> I saw a libmad bug recently where only libmad caused sound quality issues (now fixed).
[07:36] <persia> Make sure the bug details precisely what the user did to create the "poor sound quality" experience.
[07:37] <persia> Attempt to replicate that.  If you can, and you have different hardware, then start looking at other sound generation techniques.
[07:37] <RedSingularity> persia:  If i am looking for someone in particular to look at a bug can i send a message out on the mailing list.  For example someone who works with transmission.
[07:37] <persia> If you can't, then go the alsa-base route.
[07:38] <persia> RedSingularity, There's no such set of folks reliably.  We don't have maintainers in Ubuntu, and we use self-selection to indicate which bugs interest us.  Everyone interested in bugs in transmission will already be subscribed to any bug with a transmission task, and have been notified about it.
[07:38] <RedSingularity> persia:  I can subscribe to all bugs that have to do with update-manager?
[07:39] <persia> RedSingularity, Yep.
[07:39]  * persia digs up the link
[07:39] <RedSingularity> How?
[07:40]  * RedSingularity waits
[07:40] <persia> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/update-manager/+bugs : on the upper right there ought be a "subscribe to bug mail" link.
[07:40] <persia> That should get you autosubscribed to all messages about update-manager bugs.
[07:41] <RedSingularity> Ah very nice!  Thanks so much.  This makes looking for them a lot easier!
[07:43] <persia> RedSingularity, Happy to help.  The central guiding principle of bugsquad is ASK!  There's almost always someone here who knows the answer (although I think none of us have all the answers).
[07:43] <persia> And when there isn't, there's usually someone who knows how to get it.
[07:44] <RedSingularity> I have found that to be the case here.  Its great.  I dont even log out of IRC anymore because thats where all the answers are.
[08:05] <RedSingularity> persia:  Can you mark a Wishlist item for me?  If you consider it worthy of course.
[08:08] <persia> Wishlist isn't about worthiness :)  Which bug?
[08:08] <RedSingularity> bug 659696
[08:08] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 659696 in update-manager (Ubuntu) "Terminal screen grows too big (affects: 1) (heat: 6)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/659696
[08:08] <persia> (and it's best practice to ask "could someone please mark bug #nnnn wishlist: ${why it ought be wishlist}", rather than highlighting an individual)
[08:09] <persia> RedSingularity, I won't.  The request from the user is clearly wishlist, but is at odds with every other user.
[08:10] <RedSingularity> persia:  what do you mean?
[08:10] <persia> What is needed is detailed information about the user's environment: the resolution, DPI, current drag size of the terminal about which they complain, etc.
[08:10] <persia> If the configuration is changed to make the terminal smaller for that user, it might be too small for another user.
[08:10] <persia> If the configuration is changed to better handle DPI and resolution hinting, it is likely to be better for all users.
[08:11] <persia> But there's not enough information in that bug to verify that it can be actionable in that sense, so I won't mark it wishlist yet.
[08:11] <persia> Also, it probably belongs to python-vte or something, rather than update-manager.
[08:11] <RedSingularity> hmmmm how could I find what package it really belongs to?
[08:12] <persia> It is worth noting that we can't and won't support anyone who enables PPAs and extras, so it may be that this becomes an Invalid bug, depending.
[08:12] <persia> I think it's python-vte: you can verify by checking which handler update-manager uses for the embedded terminal (looking at the update-manager source).
[08:13] <persia> (note that we *can* support some extras users, when they aren't using any of the extras apps, so it's not quite like PPA users, who we often can't support at all)
[08:13] <RedSingularity> persia:  So if they are using a PPA then whatever bug it is should be considered invalad?
[08:14] <persia> No, but you have to do lots of extra research to make sure the package they are reporting the bug against isn't from a PPA, and none of the packages int he recursive dependency set of that package are from a PPA.
[08:15] <persia> And even if you've done all that, it might be that the bug is caused by some completely other package they got from a PPA that interacts badly with the package the bug is reported against (which isn't even interesting to fix, as PPAs aren't part of Ubuntu)
[08:15] <persia> So, I guess I shouldn't say we can't support all PPA users, but it's a lot more work for us, and we can't support a heap of problems that end up being related to PPA packages.
[08:16] <RedSingularity> ohh, interesting.  So a dependency list from the user would be good to see if it is dependent on a PPA that we dont support?
[08:17] <persia> What I usually do is to try to replicate the bug in normal Ubuntu first.
[08:17] <persia> If we have the bug, and we can replicate it, we no longer care about the user environment, because we can ask ourselves all the questions we need to triage it.
[08:17] <persia> And then provide clear documentation of how to reproduce, what component is affected, expected and observed behaviour, etc.
[08:17] <persia> If I can't replicate it, I ask for instructions from the user, and try harder.
[08:18] <persia> If I still can't replicate, I might start hunting down which packages the user has installed and the sources of those packages, but, in practice, I usually hunt for a bug I can usefully work on at that point.
[08:20] <RedSingularity> Is there a way to get a full dependency list from the user?  A command?
[08:21] <persia> Hey majeru.  Did you file a bug about it yet?
[08:21] <majeru> hi there, I'm having a problem with 10.10 on my Dell T3500. it constaltly panics with the default 10.10 kernel, from what I can tell the panic occurs while modprob-ing the AHCI driver
[08:22] <majeru> persia: where should I file it?
[08:22] <persia> RedSingularity, I think there is something, but I forget how: look at apport or requestbug source.
[08:22] <persia> RedSingularity, Often, if the bug is assigned to the right package, apport-collect will collect it.
[08:22] <persia> majeru, Launchpad, preferably with `ubuntu-bug linux`.  Just have patience with the annoying set of questions you will be asked.
[08:23] <majeru> ok, thanks
[08:23] <RedSingularity> persia:  ok
[08:23] <persia> s/requestbug/reportbug/
[08:25] <majeru> persia: is it ok if I post photos with the crash?
[08:28] <persia> majeru, If you can't get the logs any other way, yes.
[08:30] <majeru> ok, I found someone posted the same bug a few days ago
[08:41] <persia> Be careful: sometimes similar symptoms have different causes.
[08:41] <persia> Double-check that you have the same hardware, etc.
[09:41] <jibel> chrisccoulson, Hello, I'm a bit confused by the comments in bug 625793. When the users talk about g-s-d 2.32.0-0ubuntu4 they are referring to a version from a PPA ?
[09:41] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 625793 in gnome-settings-daemon (Ubuntu Maverick) (and 4 other projects) "Regression: Multiple Keyboard Layouts unusable: continuously changes layout + 100% CPU usage [updated] (affects: 288) (dups: 23) (heat: 1356)" [Critical,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/625793
[09:42] <chrisccoulson> jibel, yes, klattimer uploaded a version to his PPA with ubuntu3 and ubuntu4 version numbers
[09:42] <chrisccoulson> which makes it a little confusing
[09:42] <chrisccoulson> we have to be sure when users are commenting that they are using the right version
[09:42] <jibel> chrisccoulson, 2.32.0-0ubuntu3 in -proposed is the correct version to test ?
[09:43] <chrisccoulson> jibel, yeah, that one fixes the most obvious reason for that bug, and it's working here
[09:43] <chrisccoulson> so i'd be surprised if people still have issues with that version :)
[09:44] <jibel> chrisccoulson, we have at least 3 positive comments. I'll mark it as verification-done for publication to -updates asap and stop useless metooing.
[09:44] <jibel> chrisccoulson, thanks.
[09:44] <chrisccoulson> jibel - excellent, thanks
[09:45] <chrisccoulson> jibel, it's still awaiting verification on bug 658777 too, but seb128 said he would have a look at that today
[09:45] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 658777 in gnome-settings-daemon (Ubuntu Maverick) (and 1 other project) "Invalid reads in keyboard plugin (affects: 1) (heat: 10)" [Medium,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/658777
[09:45] <chrisccoulson> that's just a case of running it through valgrind to verify
[09:46] <chrisccoulson> there's a lot of other invalid reads in g-s-d, but those are pretty much all because of ubuntuone
[09:46] <chrisccoulson> somebody should probably investigate those ;)
[09:46] <jibel> chrisccoulson, that'd be great if he could do that.
[09:46] <seb128> is that python warnings?
[09:46] <seb128> ubunutone
[09:46] <chrisccoulson> seb128 - no, the ubuntuone g-s-d plugin causes lots of errors in valgrind
[09:47] <chrisccoulson> they don't look like python warnings
[09:47] <seb128> could you open a bug with the errors?
[09:47] <chrisccoulson> seb128 - yeah, sure
[09:47] <seb128> I will get it assigned to the u1 guys
[09:47] <chrisccoulson> thanks
[09:47] <seb128> I sort of disliked them to add g-s-d code to start
[09:47] <seb128> g-s-d is doing enough things, especially that any crasher in any of the .so bring it down
[09:48] <chrisccoulson> yeah, that's a bit of a pain, especially when things like nautilus don't restore the correct theme ;)
[09:49] <seb128> I'm wondering why
[09:49] <seb128> they pick themes changes dynamically no?
[09:52] <chrisccoulson> seb128 - i'm not sure how that's meant to work. it seems weird that it picks up theme changes, but doesn't restore the theme after g-s-d crashes
[09:52] <chrisccoulson> i would have thought it would all be the same events and the same codepaths ;)
[12:02] <alvin> Can I set bug 562742 to new again after it was 'fix released'? (It was fixed for only a week or so) What is the proper procedure to do this? I have a whole network suffering badly from this and seeing 'fix released' doesn't give peace of mind that this will get resolved eventually. (Also, I want to draw some attention to the bug. I have been receiving phone calls about this issue almost everey day now since Lucid came out.)
[12:02] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 562742 in linux (Fedora) (and 2 other projects) "r8169 ethernet MAC address changes in 2.6.32 kernel (affects: 14) (heat: 90)" [Unknown,Unknown] https://launchpad.net/bugs/562742
[12:07] <persia> alvin, It's very rare to go from "Fix Released" to "New".
[12:09] <persia> alvin, Based on comment #34, I'm certain that you have a slightly different bug with nearly identical symptoms.  Please file a new bug.
[12:10] <alvin> persia: ok, will do.
[12:10] <persia> Check against 2.6.32-25, and if you can replicate, just follow that bug to ensure you have attached all the right logs, etc.
[12:11] <persia> Sometimes with hw-related bugs it's tricky to know when it's the same and when it's different, but if the kernel was changed in a way that did fix it for the original reporter and didn't fix it for you, that's a fairly strong indication that yours is different.
[12:11] <alvin> Yes, symptoms are the same. I'll update them all again and file the new bug as soon as I can. (all machines are the same) Since lucid, all the mac addresses changed and eth1 was created. On top of that, several reboots are needed until the network goes up.
[12:12] <persia> I know the second part of that to be false: there are other ways to reset the network interface initialisation (although reboot might be easy)
[12:12] <persia> But if your mac addresses are changing, then that's not ideal.
[12:41] <alvin> Yes, there are other ways, but none that do not require root access. The users don't have that.
[14:31] <mistrynitesh> can bug 659668 marked confirmed/triaged?
[14:31] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 659668 in linux (Ubuntu) "Ubuntu does not suspend for Lenovo Thinkpad T500 (affects: 2) (dups: 1) (heat: 20)" [Undecided,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/659668
[15:19] <hggdh> mistrynitesh: I would defer to JFo on that (kernel issues)
[15:20] <hggdh> mistrynitesh: BTW, thank you for resetting the package and asking for data collection
[15:22] <mistrynitesh> hggdh: sorry I was away for a while... JFo? whats that?
[15:24] <nigelb> its a who, not what
[15:25] <hggdh> mistrynitesh: he is the kernel interface for triaging
[15:26] <mistrynitesh> oops!
[16:50] <jibel> pedro_, I'll organize the regression bugday next week (Oct. 21rst) What do you think ?
[16:51] <pedro_> jibel, sounds fine to me
[16:51] <pedro_> jibel, may you please add the date to the planning page?
[16:52] <jibel> pedro_, Yep.
[16:52] <pedro_> thanks jibel
[16:54] <bbordwell> vish, hello, you are familiar with light-themes correct?
[17:06] <xteejx> Afternoon all :)
[17:06] <ngi> afternoon
[17:06] <xteejx> ngi: Hi
[17:06] <xteejx> :)
[17:08] <xteejx> Shouldn't the topic be changed? Our meeting was yesterday :)
[17:09] <hggdh> aye, by someone with access to it :-)
[17:10] <xteejx> hggdh: I like the way you just pop up with a comment lol :)
[17:10] <xteejx> How we doing?
[17:10] <hggdh> good, I guess. I am still alive, so this is good
[17:10] <ngi> that is always a plus
[17:10] <xteejx> heh true I suppose
[17:11] <xteejx> Weird...my emails aren't getting thru to ubuntu-uk mailing list
[17:13] <ngi> the server must be more than 500 miles away :p
[17:15] <jpds> ngi: Thank goodness for the speed of light.
[17:15] <ngi> :)
[17:22] <ngi> hmm... this is interesting ...
[17:23] <ngi> I'm tyring to compile a 32bit in lucid, statically linked, and I get "illegal instruction" upon execution
[17:24] <popey> xteejx: they are :)
[17:24] <xteejx> Probably on the moon
[17:24] <xteejx> popey: I wasn't too abusive was I?
[17:24] <xteejx> ngi: A 32 bit what?
[17:25] <ngi> opps, missed a word, a 32bit program
[17:25] <xteejx> ;) ermmm if you say exactly what you're trying to do, maybe someone can reproduce it
[17:26] <popey> xteejx: was a bit harsh
[17:26] <ngi> there we go, compiling an program that uses strspn() and linking statically
[17:27] <xteejx> popey: The apology should come thru sometime today, but it just pees me off that people think and say we're useless
[17:27] <xteejx> Wouldn't be here if we didn't care
[17:28] <xteejx> Oh well, I suppose MCSE can be offensive to some hehe :D
[17:29]  * xteejx hides and goes back to triaging
[17:58] <eboyjr> http://pastie.org/1218527
[17:58] <eboyjr> Would that be considered a bug in 10.10? It was fixed by logging out and then back in
[17:59] <ngi> eboyjr: which shell were you under ?
[17:59] <eboyjr> ngi: bash
[17:59] <ngi> hmm, strange I thought bash really looked into all the PATH paths all the time
[17:59] <eboyjr> I _did_ accidentally install the package `node` and then purged it
[18:00] <eboyjr> and then installed the `nodejs` package and then purged it
[18:00] <ngi> ah, well, maybe it need a refresh
[18:00] <ngi> in zsh it's the "rehash" command
[18:00] <eboyjr> and then i just compiled from source
[18:00] <ngi> no idea about bash :p
[18:00] <eboyjr> compiled nodejs from source, and okay thanks ngi :)
[18:01] <eboyjr> in bash it's logout and ssh $SERVER in my case :p
[18:21] <ngi> http://pastie.org/1218614
[18:22] <ngi> opps, forgot to specify this was on a amd64 version of ubuntu
[18:26] <ngi> not sure under which package I should submit this bug ...
[18:30] <xteejx> ngi: Is the package with those includes an Ubuntu package?
[18:33] <xteejx> Probably file it against php5 or gcc - php5 if it's the same as is in our php packages
[18:34] <xteejx> (assuming its the php strspn of course)
[18:58] <rusivi> Regarding Ubuntu bug 147203 was looking around and found that BSD already made the WG11T USB driver for their platform via http://www.openbsd.org/cgi-bin/cvsweb/src/sys/dev/usb/if_uath.c?rev=1.10&content-type=text/x-cvsweb-markup I am not familiar with the code (one step at a time), just wanted to check in on it see what the chat thought.
[18:58] <ubot2> Ubuntu bug 147203 in linux (Ubuntu) (and 1 other project) "Netgear WG111T not auto-sensed (dups: 2) (heat: 26)" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/147203
[18:58] <rusivi> WG11T = WG111T
[19:20] <hggdh> rusivi: add the link in (at minimum it will be a reference). But please be aware that the *BSD and Linux kernels are not quite compatible
[19:22] <rusivi> hggdh: Ok.
[20:00] <jibel> QA meeting at #ubuntu-quality
[21:15] <BUGabundo> bah
[21:15] <BUGabundo> still no #ubuntu+1
[21:26] <charlie-tca> nope
[23:00] <moldy> hi
[23:01] <moldy> i am trying to use apport-collect from the command line. i cannot figure out how to use the launchpad login form. i can enter my username and password, but "continue" does not seem to be a link i can follow. any hints?
[23:04] <jibel> moldy, LP is under maintenance for 2 hours.