=== A_B__ is now known as A_B_
=== head_v is now known as head_victim
=== jussi01_ is now known as jussi
sebsebseb 08:24
=== Rajesh is now known as Guest12282
Fikret_TRHello I'm a bit late10:12
Fikret_TRWhen will start "Ubuntu in Education" topic10:15
Rajhello everyone10:15
nigelbHi, this is the classroom channel.  THere are no sessions now.  Please see topic for schedule.  Open week sessions start in ~5 hours10:17
Fikret_TRWhen will start "ubuntu in education" topic10:18
nigelbFikret_TR: Hi, this is the classroom channel.  THere are no sessions now.  Please see topic for schedule.  Open week sessions start in ~5 hours10:20
Fikret_TRNigelb: Thanks. I see. 5 hour later start10:21
nigelbMore like 4.5 hours now10:23
stnvwhere can I check logs of the channel from the past  ?12:15
head_victimstnv: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Classroom#Logs/Transcripts12:16
head_victimNo worries12:17
=== mohi1 is now known as Mohan_chml
jcastro5 minutes until Ask Mark!14:55
sebsebsebjcastro: yeah14:56
ssj6akshatsooo excited14:57
thiebaudei cant wait,lol14:57
jcastroIn the meantime, feast on this: http://blog.canonical.com/?p=44614:58
sebsebsebjcastro: without just going on the link, whats that about?14:58
jcastrook some quick ground rules14:59
jcastroI'll be handling the questions14:59
jcastroas you can expect, this gets a little busy14:59
jcastroso if your question is easily googleable "ie. what year did you go into space?" then I'll skip it14:59
jcastroif the information is easily googleable in existing ubuntu things I'll skip it "How do I set up dns?"15:00
jcastroother than that, remember we have one hour, and a bunch of people asking, so please try to make each one a good question!15:00
jcastrologs of past Ask Marks are in the link in the topic15:01
=== ChanServ changed the topic of #ubuntu-classroom to: Welcome to the Ubuntu Classroom - https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Classroom || Support in #ubuntu || Upcoming Schedule: http://is.gd/8rtIi || Questions in #ubuntu-classroom-chat || UOW Survey: http://is.gd/fZlwL || Event: Ubuntu Open Week - Current Session: Ask Mark - Instructors: sabdfl
ClassBotLogs for this session will be available at http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2010/10/14/%23ubuntu-classroom.html following the conclusion of the session.15:01
jcastrosabdfl: Welcome, please introduce yourself!15:01
jcastroand then we'll begin!15:01
sabdflhi all!15:02
sabdflvery glad to be here15:02
sabdfllooking fwd to your questions15:02
jcastrosabdfl: people are already wondering about http://blog.canonical.com/?p=44615:02
sabdflcongrats and thanks to everyone who helped build 10.10, it was a tight but very well-run cycle15:02
jcastroif you want to kick it off talking about unity and utouch I think that would be a nice way to start things15:02
sabdfl2 years ago we had a flood of PC manufacturers wanting us to help them build their own OS's15:03
sabdfleveryone wanted a Linux15:03
sabdfland they wanted them all to be different15:03
sabdfland they wanted them all to be built on the core of Ubuntu15:03
sabdflwe did engage with some of them15:03
sabdflbut we saw that world graudally fragmenting, and that path wasn't going to make linux a world class, strong competitor15:03
sabdflto the established proprietary platforms15:03
sabdflso we decided to put all of our own effort into a focused designed and engineered UI for netbooks15:04
sabdflthat started with UNR15:04
sabdflwhich evolved (with a clean sheet at one point) into Unity15:04
sabdflit's come together quite well for 10.10, we didn't get it all done as we hoped and there are issues on certain hardware15:05
sabdflbut feedback is generally that people love the design and direction15:05
sabdflwant bugs fixed15:05
sabdfland want it to work on all the hardware possible15:05
sabdflso, that will be our focus in 11.0415:05
sabdflwe're starting to see a new generation of mouse, essentially, that brings touch to netbooks too15:06
sabdflthere wasn't any great open source touch framework anywhere15:06
sabdfland we have a view on touch beyond basic touch, towards "gesture languages"15:06
sabdflwhich nobody else was really tackling15:06
sabdflthe beginnings of that are in 10.1015:06
sabdflit will evolve for 11.04, and it will get easier to integrate with normal apps15:07
sabdflso, you should be zooming and scrolling with touch in 11.04 all over the place15:07
sabdflwe'll also integrate window management and touch15:07
sabdflwhich is pretty slick to see in action15:07
sabdflthe video gives you a taste15:07
sabdflhow's that for an intro?15:07
jcastroGreat, on with the questions15:07
ClassBotautif1 asked: What is the future of my favorite OS with embedded devices? Specifically - the guru plug and the sheeva plug - these are ARM based computers.15:07
sabdflARM is now a fully supported architecture in Ubuntu15:08
sabdflthe ARM ecosystem is coming together in something called Linaro, and Canonical is very much part of that15:08
sabdflLinaro is a forum to get stuff done, not a consortium or a new distro15:08
sabdflit's where we can set a roadmap for a unified ARM kernel, and set the pace for the ARM toolchain15:09
sabdflin 10.10, for example, the whole of Ubuntu is built with GCC that includes patches from ARM15:09
sabdflthat makes everyone's life a little better, but a little more complicated15:09
sabdflit helps get those patches upstream faster, because they've been exercised at Ubuntu-scale15:09
sabdflwhich is good15:09
sabdflso, you can count on ARM support in 11.04 and the foreseeable future15:10
ClassBotPendulum asked: Today is the 41st annual World Standards Day with this year's being focused on Accessibility standards. Are there plans to improve Ubuntu's accessibility and to bring things like the Ubuntu website in line with web accessibility standards?15:10
sabdflyes, accessibility is important, please file bugs where we let you down on that front15:10
sabdflfor 11.04, a11y is one concentrated push for the Unity team, for example15:11
sabdflwe need all the help we can get, though15:11
sabdflthere's no commercial case for it, we do it because we think it's important15:11
sabdflcommercial engagements related to it would help, and folks on the team who are interested can make a big, big difference15:11
ClassBotIdleOne asked: Hey Mark! I wanted to ask about the Code of Conduct and when we will be seeing translated versions for the rest of the world to be able to read and sign in theyre own language?15:12
sabdflgood question15:12
sabdfli don't know, but i'd like to hear flacoste's view, he leads the LP team15:12
sabdfli suspect the main issue is prioritisation of that in LP15:12
sabdflbut LP is open source, so....15:12
sabdflwe should generalise that feature, so teams can have things like service level agreements and can ask people to commit to them15:13
ClassBotnisshh asked: is anything further happening with 'Windicators'?15:13
sabdflit's in the queue15:13
sabdfljust not a top priority, with everything else moving on15:13
sabdfli'd like to see it, but i'm not going to force it when i know we have other things to juggle15:14
sabdflwe already have the AppIndicators protocol15:14
sabdflall we need is a variant of that to associate the indicator with a window15:14
sabdfland a plugin for (your favourite window manager) to agree to render the indicator15:14
ClassBotssj6akshat asked: Is Canonical profitable yet, or How much time more until it is?15:14
sabdflno, and some :-)15:15
sabdflit's important that Ubuntu have a strong commercial footing15:15
sabdflthat gives people confidence in the future of the platform15:15
sabdflit helps build the base of investment in the distro15:15
sabdfland Canonical is a good partner to our community, I believe, so Canonical's health is good for the community too15:16
sabdflwe chose to take on multiple things: servers, desktops, ARM15:16
sabdflwhich creates contention and slows down the march to profitability15:16
sabdflbut it also makes Ubuntu more valuable as a cohesive platform15:16
sabdfland i'm still confident we will break through on each of those fronts15:17
ClassBotmhall119 asked: What is Project Harmony?15:17
sabdflHarmony is an effort to simplify the forest of contribution agreements into a few, well thought through trees15:17
sabdflat the moment, there are literally hundreds of contribution agreements (also called copyright assignment agreements, because amongst other things, that's usually what they involve)15:18
sabdfli believe contribution agreements are really important to stimulating a healthy ecosystem of corporate involvement in the long tail of open source15:18
sabdflthey are not important for the linux kernel, which will always be cool and sexy and in many cases mission critical for so many companies and individuals you will always have a flood of contribution15:19
sabdflbut they are important for many of the things we want to be there, in quality and to "just work"15:19
sabdfli worry that this is badly understood by the broader community15:19
sabdflthere are some myths about open source15:20
sabdflmost of the work is done by folks who have a genuine commercial interest in seeing it done15:20
sabdflin many cases, that interest is tangential to the ownership of the code15:20
sabdflbut in many cases, it's not15:20
sabdflfor example, compare Qt and Gtk15:21
sabdflQt has a contribution agreement, Gtk doesn't15:21
sabdflfor a while, back in the bubble, Sun, Red Hat, Ximian and many other companies threw money at Gtk15:21
sabdflit grew and improved very quickly15:21
sabdflthen they lost interest, and it has stagnated15:21
sabdflQt was owned by Trolltech15:21
sabdflit was open source (GPL) but because of the contribution agreement they had many options15:22
sabdflincluding proprietary licensing, which is just fine with me alongside the GPL15:22
sabdfland later, because they owned Qt completely, they were an attractive acquisition for Nokia15:22
sabdflall in all, the Qt ecosystem benefitted15:22
sabdfland the Gtk ecosystem hasn't15:22
sabdflone of the problems with contribution agreements is that they never had a strong lead15:23
sabdflGPL, CC both had clear leadership15:23
sabdfland become widely adopted15:23
sabdflwe've gathered the legal counsel of lots of the top open source companies15:23
sabdflwe've looked at hundreds of contribution agreements15:23
sabdflmost, the vast majority, of them look very similar15:23
sabdflthey talk about copyright, patents, and code15:24
sabdflbut because they were all written by different lawyers who "just wanted something that works for them", they aren't general15:24
sabdflHarmony should produce one, or two, general contribution agreements15:24
sabdflperhaps with options, like some of the main open content / code licenses15:24
sabdflthat way, when you get to a project, if they have a "standard" agreement, you know quickly whether it's OK for you or not15:25
sabdfli don't actually think anybody who has found a bug in X and made a patch has said "oh, I'm not going to contribute it because I believe in the GPL and they are under the MIT license"15:25
sabdfland similarly, i think contribution is the right thing to do when you participate in a project that requests it15:25
sabdflthere are some exceptions, in the case of things like plugins which could be whole works in their own right15:26
sabdflbut if you're making a patch to someone else's codebase, and they own the whole right to that codebase15:26
sabdflthe generous, and imo right thing to do is to contribute the patch in a way which does not change their rights, or yours15:26
sabdflwhich is under a contribution agreement15:26
sabdflwe've signed many of them, we have a policy that we always do15:26
sabdflonly exception ever was a weird, nasty agreement by some company i'd never heard of that said something impossible15:27
sabdflwhich we declined, and i think they fixed15:27
sabdflso that's Harmony15:27
ClassBotssj6akshat asked: What do you think about OMG! Ubuntu! ?15:27
ClassBotean5533 asked: Hardware issues aside, has the response to Unity been mostly positive? Would you choose another direction if you could go back in time?15:28
sabdflit's been flattered, critiqued and emulated, in equal measure ;-)15:28
sabdflall are important, i think15:28
sabdflthe flattery is nice - people like that it's clean, the pieces fit well together, layout and space are considered15:28
sabdflthe critique is a very good guide to where we need to direct effort15:29
sabdflperformance on GL15:29
sabdflfallbaks where the hardware or drivers are not sufficient15:29
sabdflthe design decisions we made around file access need careful testing and iteration15:29
sabdfland the emulation, well, that's the sincerest form of flattery15:30
sabdfland perhaps it's the only way we could realistically have helped those projects which embrace our ideas, after they work15:30
sabdflbecause sometimes you just can't convince folsk any other way than to Just Do It15:30
ClassBotsebsebseb asked: Will 11.04 be using Gnome 3's  Gnome Shell by default in the desktop version?15:30
sabdflwe deferred Gnome3 adoption from Maverick, and with retrospect and hindsight i'm very glad we did15:31
sabdflwe're reviewing the status now in prep for UDS15:31
sabdfltesting with users and chatting with developers15:32
sabdflwe need to settle the question before the end of UDS15:32
ClassBotsebsebseb asked: Favourite Ubuntu release before 10.04 and why?15:32
sabdflDapper Drake. It set our course for LTS's and being a whole platform.15:33
ClassBotmobster asked: Why Kubuntu is getting less love?? For example no software center and ubuntu one?15:33
sabdflbecause it would cost farmore than i can justify15:33
sabdfli do love the kubuntu community, and spend what some would consider an unreasonable amount on doing certain things twice15:34
sabdflthere is no philanthropic benefit to having TWO free desktops out there15:34
sabdflthat won't help more folks embrace free software15:34
sabdflneither is there much commercial benefit in having two free desktops15:34
sabdflso, ask yourself, on what basis do you feel that we're letting you down?15:35
sabdflon what basis do you feel you have a right to expect something else?15:35
sabdfli admire KDE and Kubuntu, I enjoy using KDE occasionally and hanging out on #kubuntu-devel15:36
sabdfland i like the people, except occasionally the odd super-self-interested muppet who expects me to singlehandedly make his wet dreams of technology kfuturism come true15:36
sabdfland that's that15:36
ClassBotdanyR asked: About the new ubuntu iconset, any updates? I've read somewhere that some inicial sketeches were supposed to be launched, is it still planned to 11.04?15:36
sabdfli don't think we will achieve it for 11.04, no15:37
sabdflit's a big program15:37
sabdfland we haven't yet started15:37
sabdflbut i know, if we don't start for 11.10 we won't finish by 12.0415:37
sabdfland i really want it done by 12.04 LTS15:37
ClassBotssj6akshat asked: What motivated you to invest in making free software and debian user friendly?15:37
sabdfl"because the possibility was out there"15:38
sabdflyou know the answer to the question, "why do you climb dangerously high mountains"?15:38
sabdfl"because they are there"15:38
sabdfllife is something we get to use up, once and once only15:38
sabdflwe should do the boldest, scariest, most important thing with our lives that we can dream15:38
sabdfli felt free software could be all the things we want ubuntu to be: easy to use, free of charge, sustainable, beautiful15:39
sabdflbut nobody else seemed to be interested in getting it there15:39
sabdfland it wasn't going to happen by itself15:39
sabdflit needed a community that was single-minded about THOSE specific goals15:39
sabdflnot the things that people seemed to care about15:39
sabdflnothing wrong with the kernel community, or the X community, or the other distro communities15:40
sabdfli just didn't see anybody who was caring about usability, people, beauty, quality on the desktop15:40
sabdflif you think something is possible15:40
sabdfland good15:40
sabdfland you have the time and resources15:40
sabdfland nothing more important to do15:40
sabdflthen you should do it15:40
sabdfland thousands of people seem to agree, becuase they help build it15:41
ClassBotbilalakhtar asked: Gnome Shell uses a system of notification that is somewhat similar to notify-osd. When Ubuntu would begin using gnome-shell, would you like notify-osd to be used or the notification system of gnome-shell?15:41
sabdflwe designed and built it in good faith15:41
sabdflit's compatible with the freedesktop.org standards15:41
sabdflwe did it long before anybody else seemed to care about reinventing notifications15:41
sabdflwe expressed a willingness to collaborate around API's when suddenly they did15:42
sabdflnow we have good code that works, with lots of apps that use it15:42
sabdflwe'll stick to it15:42
ClassBothighvoltage asked: Why did Canonical ditch the LPI, and will there be any discounts for the new training for long-time Ubuntu contributors (or ubuntu members)? Currently the server training is more than £1000, which is a bit steep for an individual for an online course.15:42
sabdflhighvoltage: there was little demand for individuals getting their own certification15:43
sabdfland more for something specific to ubuntu that companies could be confident would help their sysadmin teams be productive in an environment where ubuntu was being deployed15:43
sabdfli'd like to change the forces of gravity and economics15:43
=== Mossyfunk|AFK is now known as Mossyfunk|Sleep
sabdfloccasionally, we tweak their noses15:43
sabdflbut in due course they reassert themselves ;-)15:43
ClassBotSergioMeneses asked: Is there an strategy from Canonical to increase local commercial presence in emerging economies (and not via partners)?15:44
sabdflwe have an office in Shanghai15:44
sabdflwe have employees in India and Brazil15:44
sabdfland South Africa is starting to embrace Ubuntu for education (highvoltage must have had something to do with that ;-))15:44
sabdfland i believe in that mission15:44
sabdflbut we can't be everywhere, doing everything15:45
sabdflpartners are very important to us15:45
sabdfland where we have the right partner, we are often more effective than we could reasonably expect to be doing everything ourselves15:45
ClassBothelger asked: What do you think about services like Flattr? Have you considered integrating something like that into the Ubuntu Software Center?15:45
sabdflthey are very cool, and yes15:45
ClassBotalecu asked: is there a plan for process isolation for apps installed from untrusted sources (ie, universe, propietary stuff from the software center)? iOS and sugar from the olpc already have something like this.15:46
sabdflalecu: using, say, something like AppArmor?15:46
sabdfli like the idea!15:46
sabdflyou should chat with the right folks at UDS about that, if you can come15:46
sabdflor raise it on #ubuntu-devel15:46
sabdflcc mdz ;-)15:46
sabdflcan't be15:47
ClassBotmistrynitesh asked: what are the plans for India?15:47
sabdflhave we ...15:47
sabdflWe got the new Rupee symbol in the 10.10 ttf-ubuntu-font-family package15:47
jcastro(sorry, question mix up)15:47
sabdflfirst OS in the world to support it natively15:48
sabdflhigh-five to sladen and DM for that15:48
sabdflI think India has the potential to harness FLOSS in a very potent way15:48
sabdflthere is little legacy dependency15:48
sabdflthere is a substantial talent base15:48
sabdflthe only thing that is required is very directed government policy15:48
sabdflthat, however, is challenging in India15:49
sabdflcountries like Brazil might well do better: they too have been experimenting with FLOSS15:49
sabdfland can more likely translate that thinking into concrete policy that encourages business, universities, schools and government organisations to use FLOSS15:49
sabdflso, it's a race to see who is smarter and more organised about this15:50
ClassBotdanyR asked: What's the plan with indicator-network and indicator-datetime? Is natty going to be the first linux distro ever to ship without a notification area?15:50
sabdflwithout a legacy systray, i hope so15:50
sabdflwe are building a new GNOME UI for connection-manager, the Intel-Nokia replacement for NetworkManager15:51
ClassBotThere are 10 minutes remaining in the current session.15:51
sabdflwe'll have to see, in the final analysis, how it pans out15:51
sabdflbut connman has many advantages in design and testability15:51
sabdflNM has more road behind it15:51
sabdfli use the connman bits, and they work well for me15:51
sabdflwith some exceptions15:51
sabdflad-hoc networks15:51
sabdfland i haven't had much success with 3G though i believe it works for some15:52
sabdflGoogle is using a derivative in ChromeOS15:52
sabdflso, i think it will be solid15:52
sabdfland i really like the design work MPT did on the indicator and settings, though it's taking time to implement15:52
ClassBotpopey asked: We often see figures for how many Ubuntu installs there are, 8 million here, 12 million there. Can you give us definitive (near enough) figures and tell us how you arrive at them? This would help dispell some naysayers who claim we're making these numbers up.15:52
sabdflno, i have no definitive answer15:53
sabdflthere are stats15:53
sabdflbut we can make those say whatever we want15:53
sabdflwe just don't do any meaningful tracking or registration15:53
sabdflanyway, what matters to me is that our users are delighted, whoever they are and however many there are15:54
sabdfli do believe we have more than either of those numbers15:54
sabdflbut i don't think anybody knows for sure, except maybe google, and they haven't said15:54
ClassBotTLE asked: Any plans on changing the one-cd strategy, to get room for more standard tools, like say a demon administration tool and a firewall?15:54
sabdflit's a good discipline15:55
sabdflwe need to get better at helping people find things like those tools of yours, after they install15:55
sabdfland forcing less on them up front15:55
ClassBotBigWhale asked: So, we started brainstorming for Ubuntu event on Balkans in couple of years. What would it take to get you for a keynote speaker? :)15:55
sabdfli'm a pushover, except when i'm impossible15:55
sabdflso just ask!15:55
sabdflif it works, i'll come along15:56
ClassBotThere are 5 minutes remaining in the current session.15:56
sabdflbut i bet you can get plenty of entertaining speakers without me15:56
sabdflthere are much better speakers in the ubuntu community and commercial ecosystem15:56
sabdfli did enjoy a week in Croatia once15:56
sabdflbe nice to be back in the area15:56
sabdflnext, even ;-)15:56
jcastrotime for one more15:56
jcastrowaiting for a good one15:56
sabdflhard one15:56
ClassBotdanyR asked: I've been following Ubuntu for years. I've also been following the blogosphere for years. I can say, without doubts, that Maverick is the most successful release ever. What's next?15:56
jcastro(Protip: See what's cooking here: https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/sprints/uds-n)15:57
ClassBotdoctormo asked: Do you consider Ubuntu to be a product of the UK?15:57
ClassBotnigelb asked: What do we do at the end of exhausting a - z for naming? ;)15:57
jcastro(this will be the last one)15:57
sabdflcyrillic, anybody?15:58
sabdflthanks all15:58
jcastrothanks, Mark!15:58
sabdflgreat questions, appreciate the support of the team organising15:58
sabdflyou all do a wonderful job with Open Week15:58
sabdflakgraner and many others, hugs15:58
jcastroalright, I hope you guys are ready for xubuntu with charlie-tca15:58
charlie-tcaThank you very much for that session, sabdfl. It is always great to be able to listen to you this way.15:59
jcastrotake 2 minutes, smoke if you got em!15:59
sabdflyw, have fun here :-)15:59
=== ChanServ changed the topic of #ubuntu-classroom to: Welcome to the Ubuntu Classroom - https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Classroom || Support in #ubuntu || Upcoming Schedule: http://is.gd/8rtIi || Questions in #ubuntu-classroom-chat || UOW Survey: http://is.gd/fZlwL || Event: Ubuntu Open Week - Current Session: Xubuntu-Alive and Well - Instructors: charlie-tca
ClassBotLogs for this session will be available at http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2010/10/14/%23ubuntu-classroom.html following the conclusion of the session.16:01
=== jorge is now known as jcastro
charlie-tcaWell, I must say, that is one hard session to follow. I hope I can do half as well!16:01
charlie-tcaI'm Charlie Kravetz, known as charlie-tca on irc and the mailing lists. I am Xubuntu Quality Assurance Lead and Xubuntu Project Lead.16:02
charlie-tcaWe are going to talk a bit about Xubuntu. We will take your questions in #ubuntu-classroom-chat, and will have a few minutes at the end to answer questions you hold on to16:02
charlie-tcaFeel free to ask questions at any time.16:03
charlie-tcaXubuntu is Ubuntu with the Xfce desktop. Xfce emphasizes conservation of system resources, which makes Xubuntu an excellent choice for any system, new or old.16:03
charlie-tcaAs a ubuntu derivative, Xubuntu maintains the same high standards and quality that Ubuntu has.16:04
charlie-tcaXubuntu is an ideal candidate for older hardware or low-end machines, thin-client networks, or those who would like to get more performance out of their hardware.16:04
ClassBotautif1 asked: Have you seen Lubuntu and what are your thoughts about it. It claims to have a smaller footprint than Xubuntu. Please comment on this aspect too.16:04
charlie-tcaThank you for asking that. I will do my best to give an honest answer.16:05
charlie-tcaI do not use Lubuntu. I think I installed it once, to look, a long time ago.16:05
charlie-tcaI do read the reviews and articles about all the distros, though. Lubuntu rates quite high.16:05
charlie-tcaAccording to phoronix, who does a lot of testing, Xubuntu is about 30% lighter in resources than Ubuntu. Lubuntu is about 30% lighter than Xubuntu.16:06
charlie-tcaSo, based on that, yes, it has a smaller footprint.16:07
=== james_w` is now known as james_w
charlie-tcaWe will not downsize Xubuntu just to say we are smaller, or we can run older equipment than someone else.16:07
charlie-tcaThe target audience for Xubuntu is users who are interested in having a modestly light weight, slim, fast desktop experience.16:08
charlie-tcaThose users should be able to retain the usability and functionality that is required to provide an easy to use desktop environment.16:08
charlie-tca<sujiths80> question:so basically these OS are designed for some older hardwares?16:08
charlie-tcaLubuntu is, as I understand it, aimed at older hardware. Xubuntu is aimed at, as stated above, anyone who would like a fast desktop experience.16:09
charlie-tcaXubuntu works good on most hardware! Those with newer hardware will not see as great a difference.16:10
ClassBotsebsebseb asked: What about Fluxbox and other lite waight window managers, use those at all?16:10
charlie-tcaOkay. Let's get down to basics now. I am not going to address all the other distros today. I would really prefer to talk about Xubuntu. that is the distribution that I use. I also use Ubuntu on occasion.16:11
=== MichealH is now known as MichealH-Test
charlie-tcaI have installed Xubuntu on my PII, 400MHz cpu with 256MB ram, and it works! I do not test all the other so-called lightweight distributions out there.16:12
=== MichealH-Test is now known as MichealH
charlie-tcaXubuntu is the Xfce-based distribution with a native 64-bit architecture. We produce both a 32-bit and 64-bit versions.16:13
charlie-tcaAnd, since Xubuntu is a derivative of Ubuntu, we use the same repositories, and many of the same applications.16:14
charlie-tcaThose of us on the team really believe the stated minimums should be real! If we can't run what the minimums say, we question it.16:14
charlie-tcaGranted, we don't expect perfect performance from it, but the system should be usable.16:14
charlie-tcaIf, for example, I am running that PII, I do not expect it to run openoffice and firefox at the same time. I would expect it to run firefox with just a couple of tabs, though.16:15
charlie-tcaI should be able to close firefox and run abiword and gnumeric, perhaps.16:15
charlie-tcaAs the hardware increases, we would expect the performance to increase.16:15
charlie-tcaNew users are often surprised to find that Xubuntu includes a number of gnome applications.16:16
charlie-tcaThese are included simply because if an application works well, and is considered lightweight, it fits.16:16
charlie-tcaAny application can be included, and it does not matter if it starts with gnome, xfce, or anything other letters.16:16
ClassBottoros asked: are there any plans to support Ubuntu One in Xubuntu?16:16
charlie-tcaAnd that brings this up! thanks, toros.16:17
charlie-tcaYes, Ubuntu One is supported using ubuntuone-client from the repositories.16:18
charlie-tcaNo, we do not specifically support it, but it does work with Thunar.16:18
charlie-tcaAlso, there is now a plugin for Exaile for UbuntuOne music16:19
ClassBotsebsebseb asked: For me I see Xubuntu  as basically a cut down version of Ubuntu/Gnome2, since they look quite similar, what do you think about this?16:19
charlie-tcathanks again for a great question, sebsebseb.16:19
charlie-tcaYes, they look similar, with two panels and a desktop. So does Kubuntu, with just one panel, and every other Ubuntu-based distribution I have seen.16:20
charlie-tcaA desktop is a background with icons. That stays the same. The background does change, as does the functionality.16:21
charlie-tcaXubuntu does not specifically focus on new users or users migrating from Windows; alternative distributions such as Ubuntu may be more appropriate for first time Linux users16:21
charlie-tcaUbuntu with its Gnome desktop is very simple to use. You have limited ability to change options, and that is a good thing for some users.16:22
charlie-tcaXubuntu gives you choices.16:22
charlie-tcaWe do not aim at the new Windows to Linux user, (especially first time Linux users who may be particularly at risk of experiencing difficulties due to lack of general experience).16:22
charlie-tcathey need that simplicity that Ubuntu offers them.16:23
charlie-tcaWe do think we offer the more experienced greater choices and ability to customize.16:23
charlie-tcaLet me continue now, and see if I can define this better.16:24
charlie-tcaXubuntu does not exclusively target users with low, modest, or high powered machines but instead targets the entire spectrum with a strong focus on enabling lower end machines.16:24
charlie-tcaXubuntu's extra responsiveness and speed, among other positive traits, can be appreciated by all users regardless of their hardware.16:25
charlie-tcaAre there other applications that could provide the same functionality? Most definitely.16:25
charlie-tcaWe are using applications that are light in resources, and relatively easy to configure for most users.16:25
charlie-tcaYou are welcome to use other applications if you desire.16:26
charlie-tcaAs a matter of fact, we do routinely check our applictions as well as others to see if they still belong in Xubuntu.16:26
charlie-tcaA few of the more well known alternatives which could make the desktop a bit more lightweight are:16:26
charlie-tcaand a disclaimer is needed here - Xubuntu as a team does not officially endorse any of these in particular. They are being given as examples only16:27
charlie-tcachromium - an open source browser - http://www.chromium.org/Home16:27
charlie-tcaclaws-mail - a very nice mail client with many options - http://www.claws-mail.org/16:27
charlie-tcagmusicbrowser - An open-source jukebox for large collections of mp3/ogg/flac/mpc/ape files, written in perl - http://gmusicbrowser.org/16:28
charlie-tcagpicviewer - A Simple and Fast Image Viewer for X - http://lxde.sourceforge.net/gpicview/16:28
charlie-tcageeqie - a lightweight Gtk+ based image viewer for Unix like operating systems. - http://geeqie.sourceforge.net/16:28
charlie-tcamidori - a lightweight browser in development by Xfce. For more information see http://software.twotoasts.de/index.php?/pages/midori_summary.html16:28
charlie-tcaPino - a simple and fast X11 client for Twitter and Identi.ca - http://pino-app.appspot.com/16:28
charlie-tcaAny or all of these can be installed by the user. Please check the repositories before downloading or compiling applications.16:29
charlie-tcaPlease note that the above applications are not presented as approved or recommended by myself or Xubuntu. There are given here as examples.16:29
charlie-tcaXubuntu does not install these applications by default at this time. Why not?16:29
charlie-tcaSince we have limited developer resources available, we use applications maintained by Ubuntu that fit our needs. The application must also have a good user GUI, if possible.16:29
charlie-tcaThe more complicated it is to configure the application for use, the less likely it will fit the requirement.16:29
charlie-tcaSome of the above are still in development, and are not yet released as a stable version. That, too, must be considered before including the application in a stable operating system.16:30
charlie-tcaWe are very thankful to have the Ubuntu developers assisting us in maintaining applications. Without their help, it would be much harder to maintain Xubuntu.16:31
charlie-tcaAt this time, I would like to hit on some of the key points in Xubuntu 10.10, otherwise known as Maverick Meerkat.16:32
charlie-tcaNew Features:16:32
charlie-tcaXfce 4.6.2, which is primarily a bug-fix release.16:32
charlie-tcaXubuntu 10.10 includes the Exaile 0.3.2 music player to make enjoying podcasts, streaming radio, audio books, and music library easier than ever before.16:33
charlie-tcaNew to Xubuntu 10.10 is the movie player, Parole, which replaces the Totem Movie Player on the Xubuntu desktop to provide a more improved movie viewing experience.16:33
charlie-tcaWe have also changed from the gnome-system-monitor to xfce4-taskmanager. We believe this provides similar, excellent functionality while being lighter on resources.16:33
charlie-tcaTo allow for a more resource concious CD/DVD burning experience, Xfburn has replaced Brasero in Xubuntu 10.10.16:33
charlie-tcaXubuntu also includes as default gimp, an application used for advanced picture editing and retouching photos.16:33
charlie-tcaThis application includes a large collection of professional-level editing tools and filters, similar to what is in PhotoShop.16:34
charlie-tcaThunderbird is a lightweight mail/news/RSS client. It fits well with the fewer resources desired for Xubuntu, yet remains an easy to configure application for the new user.16:34
charlie-tcaWe do include the ne Ubuntu Fonts, but, they are not the default Xubuntu font.16:35
charlie-tcaAny questions about Maverick?16:35
charlie-tcaWhere we are heading from here:16:37
charlie-tcaThe next release will be Natty Narwhal. Will there be major changes for Natty Narwhal? I really do not know at this time.16:37
ClassBothighvoltage asked: will there be any xubuntu related sessions at UDS?16:37
charlie-tcaIf there is interest in such sessions, yes. I have asked for input from the community for this.16:38
charlie-tcaWill Natty see Xfce 4.8? Only time will tell. Xfce developers have not completed their work at this time, and there is not a good release date yet.16:39
charlie-tcaIf it is released in time, it will definitely be included in the next version of Xubuntu.16:39
charlie-tcaWe owe a great deal of Xubuntu's success to the Ubuntu teamwork. Without Ubuntu leading the way, Xubuntu would not be where it is today.16:39
charlie-tcaWe are an official unsupported derivative of Ubuntu. This means we can use the repositories and Ubuntu sources, but we receive no funding whatsoever.16:40
ClassBotsebsebseb asked: How much do Xubuntu developers work with upstream XFCE?16:41
charlie-tcaWe work very closely with upstream Xfce. We upstream most of the bugs that concern Xfce, and work with the developers to insure that they get fixed as soon as possible.16:43
charlie-tcaThanks to the efforts of Xubuntu developers, Xfce 4.8 will have XRandR 1.2 support.16:44
charlie-tcaThat is, the support is added to Xfce4-display-settings. This is a big step for Xfce.16:44
charlie-tcaOur volunteers are very passionate about Xubuntu.16:45
charlie-tcaThey spend considerable time working to create the best possible Operating System they can, and the results do reflect that.16:45
charlie-tcaIts helps that the Ubuntu base is so awesome to work with in the first place, too.16:45
charlie-tcaI have explained what Xubuntu is, what it is designed for, and hopefully, cleared up some mis-conceptions too.16:46
charlie-tcaHow/Where to start with the Xubuntu Team ?16:47
charlie-tcaGetting started with Xubuntu is easy and fun! For the average user, you can get help and support through either #xubuntu on Freenode or the xubuntu users mailing list at https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/xubuntu-users. We're a friendly bunch and enjoy helping folks :-)16:47
charlie-tcaXubuntu comes ready to use on any equipment. It gives excellent performance with no loss of applications.16:47
charlie-tcaIt would be really nice to clear up that idea that Xubuntu is "only" for old hardware. It works equally well on new hardware.16:48
charlie-tcaAs part of one of the best, fastest growing distributions available, we welcome anyone who would like to assist in development, testing, and bug triage!16:48
charlie-tcaI see I am a few minutes early on finishing. Lets just take a small break?16:49
charlie-tcaThank you all for being here.16:49
ClassBotsebsebseb asked: I thought about if I should ask this or not, but decided to anyway.  Xubuntu is probably the most popular XFCE distro at the moment, but how would you feel if it suddenly became another distro that wasn't based on Ubuntu instead?16:50
charlie-tcaI do not actually see that happening. However, as long as it usable as it is now, that will work.16:50
ClassBotThere are 10 minutes remaining in the current session.16:51
charlie-tcaCan it remain a functioning, easy to use operating system with a different base? Probably, but Ubuntu is the fastest growing, easiest to use Linux OS available today.16:51
charlie-tcaBeing a part of the Ubuntu family does help maintain momentum, and we are fortunate to be a part of that family.16:52
ClassBotThere are 5 minutes remaining in the current session.16:56
=== ChanServ changed the topic of #ubuntu-classroom to: Welcome to the Ubuntu Classroom - https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Classroom || Support in #ubuntu || Upcoming Schedule: http://is.gd/8rtIi || Questions in #ubuntu-classroom-chat || UOW Survey: http://is.gd/fZlwL || Event: Ubuntu Open Week - Current Session: Screencasting How-to - Instructors: duanedesign
ClassBotLogs for this session will be available at http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2010/10/14/%23ubuntu-classroom.html following the conclusion of the session.17:01
duanedesignhello everyone17:02
duanedesignI am going to  be giving a session on doing screencasts17:03
duanedesignScreencasts are a very useful tool for demonstrating software capabilities.17:03
duanedesignThere are many different ways to make screencasts and different applications you can use. I will show you one way and  will use as many default applications as possible.17:04
duanedesignThe applications you will need for making a screencast are:17:04
duanedesignVirtualBox - virtualization enviroment. package: virtualbox-ose17:05
duanedesigngtk-recordmydesktop - records desktop video/audio. packages: recordmydesktop gtk-recordmydesktop qt-recordmydesktoop17:05
duanedesignrecordmydesktop being the commandline utility and gtk, for gnome, and qt-recordmydesktop, for KDE, are GUIs for that commandline utility.17:05
duanedesignaudacity - recording and editing audio17:06
duanedesignopenoffice.org - for titles at the beginning and end of your screencast17:06
duanedesignpiTiVi = for editing video, combining audio and video and re-encoding to other formats.17:06
duanedesignI like to recommended you use a virtualization environment.17:07
duanedesignIn a VM you can record your screencast from a default install. This way your custom themes, icons and setup will not confuse a user.17:07
duanedesignA VM allows you to save snapshots. This make it easy to go back to your VM setup before the demo. Ideal for rehearsing your screencast as well as making it easy to keep a standard default install.17:07
duanedesignIf the intention is to demonstrate application usage and/or the host configuration is sufficiently similar to a standard install a VM is not necessary.17:07
duanedesignThe first step, after installing the appropriate software, is to make an outline.17:08
duanedesignDecide exactly what it is you are wanting to show. Keep the videocasts short and focused. Cover only one topic in each videocast.17:09
duanedesignAfter you have an outline, you will make a script. The script will cover what you want to say and do during the screencast.17:09
duanedesignI have found the Gnome, and other style guides, help me write a script that is clear. concise and consistent. Though a lot of it is geared towards written documentation there is a lot of relevant stuff when it comes to grammar usage and terminology.17:11
duanedesignSome examples of grammar usage would be, do not superfluous adverbs like simply, easily, quickly.  Do not apply emotion, desires, or opinions.  Avoid stuff like 'This app is awesome', instead maybe 'This app has helped me ...'17:11
duanedesignAlso the Style Guides help with some of the GUI terminology. Here is an example from the Gnome Style Guide showing you what different part of the windows are called.17:12
duanedesign. This helps create consistency across a wide range of resources.17:13
duanedesignensuring that we are all calling a radio button, a radio button and not confusing people17:14
duanedesignOnce you get your script done, You will want to rehearse the steps you are going to take. This is a good opportunity to develop and refine your script.17:14
duanedesignTo do this start a virtual machine running the operating system and application which is to be demonstrated.  Go through the software and practice the steps to be demonstrated. You might need to do this a couple of times until you are comfortable with the steps and you know the script very well.17:15
duanedesignOnce you are familiar with the steps you will be taking, it is time to record the screencast.17:16
duanedesign If the demo requires the installation of additional packages then to save time it can be preferable to setup the necessary repositories, download the necessary packages without installing them, then remove the repositories.17:16
duanedesignThis of course assumes that you want to show how to enable repositories and install software within the screencast. To download packages and not install them use apt-get with the -d option: apt-get -d packagename1 packagename2 ...17:17
duanedesignNow I will go through the steps of recording the screencast.17:18
duanedesignStart a virtual machine running the operating system and application which is to be demonstrated.17:18
duanedesignStart a recording application to capture the contents of the virtual machine window.17:18
duanedesignWith recordmydesktop you can control it from the GUI or the commandline.17:18
duanedesignI will mostly cover the GUI way of doing things17:19
duanedesignIf you are interested in using the commandline I suggest the command 'man recordmydesktop'. Additionally you can find an example command, and one i often use, at  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ScreenCasts/RecordMyDesktop#Command%20Line17:19
duanedesignWith the GUI to record  either left-click the icon in the panel or click the record button in the main window17:21
duanedesignmain window - http://recordmydesktop.sourceforge.net/rug/p1_1a.php17:21
duanedesigntray icon - http://recordmydesktop.sourceforge.net/rug/p1_1b.php17:21
duanedesignIf you do not want to capture the entire desktop there are three ways of selecting the area on which you will confine the recording.17:22
duanedesignUsing the preview thumbnail on the main window you can draw a window with the crosshairs. Using the “Select Window” button and then select a window on your desktop. Using the “Select Area on Screen” function accessed by right-clicking on the panel icon.17:22
duanedesignadditional info on defining an area - http://recordmydesktop.sourceforge.net/rug/p1_2b.php17:22
duanedesignnow you will Go through the software and execute the steps you rehearsed.17:23
duanedesignIt is sometimes preferable to record the video first, and add in the audio later. If you're sufficiently able to multi task reading aloud instructions whilst doing them, then record audio and video together.17:23
duanedesigndoing them seperately though has some advantages17:24
duanedesignWhen doing them together you have to do both parts perfect.17:25
duanedesignNow Watch the screencast to ensure all is ok.17:26
duanedesignIf it  looks good add a 'intro', 'outro' slides to the start and end of the screencast.17:26
duanedesignAgain there are different ways to do this. I will show you one way17:27
duanedesignOpen OpenOffice Presentation. Make a slide containing the graphics and text you want. Maximise the presentation of the first (header) slide within the virtual machine. You can do this by running Slideshow -> Slideshow(f5) in OpenOfffice. Using the same process as you did for the main demo record 5-10 seconds. Repeat for the [footer] slide.17:27
duanedesignmsg ClassBot !q17:29
duanedesignmick_laptop asked: so recordmydesktop is what you'd recommend (from the different apps  that exist). Why would you recommend that particular one (compared to others)? i thought  that project was abandoned - but i could be wrong.17:30
duanedesignthere are a lot of good apps out there for screencasts. record,ydesktop is just what i have always used.17:31
duanedesignXVidCap is another good one17:32
duanedesigni would be intrested to know if it is abandoned17:32
ClassBotmick_laptop asked: so recordmydesktop is what you'd recommend (from the different apps that exist). Why would you recommend that particular one (compared to others)? i thought that project was abandoned - but i could be wrong.17:33
ClassBotquietone asked: Should I be using virtualbox now? I don't know how. recordmydektop fails "Couldn't open PCM device hw:2,0"17:33
duanedesignok, slowly getting classbot figured out :)17:34
duanedesignquietone change hw:2,0 too hw:017:34
duanedesignif you are recording your audio and video seperately now, after making your intro and outro slides, would be a good time to record it17:38
duanedesignaudacity is what i use for that17:38
duanedesignafter you got your audio you would combine the audio, video and intro/outro slides17:39
duanedesignUbuntu now has a movie editor, Pitivi, installed by default.17:39
ClassBotmick_laptop asked: CrazyLemon asked: "i recorded a video last night about ubuntu 10.10 installation.. it was about 22min of video..and after  10min the sound went off ..any ideas/suggestions ?17:40
duanedesignhmm, not off the top of my head i wopuld not17:40
duanedesignyou can get the pitivi manual here - http://www.pitivi.org/manual/17:41
duanedesignan overview of the process:17:42
duanedesignUse the Import Clips button in Pitivi to bring your screencast and the header and footer video clips you did into the project. Then you simply click on the clip thumbnails in the upper left of your screen and drag them from the Clip Library to the Timeline. Do this for each clip placing them sequentially in the timeline. When you are ready to output the video, select 'Render Project'. In the Render Project Window click 'Modify' T17:42
duanedesignCheck the combined audio/video/intro/outro for errors/glitches/sync problems.17:43
duanedesignOptionally encode/compress screencast to other formats.17:43
duanedesignthat is one way to do screencasts and one set of tools17:44
duanedesignas one of the questions brought up there are different apps then recordmydesktop.17:45
duanedesignkazam is one that was mentioned to me recently http://launchpad.net/kazam17:46
duanedesigni have also created a script that uses ffmpeg and parec17:46
duanedesignyou can find the script and instructions and tips on how to use it on my blog http://okiebuntu.homelinux.com/blog/?p=17517:47
duanedesignif you have an interest in making screencasts we have a Screencast Team in the community17:48
duanedesignwe would love to have you17:48
duanedesignyou can also find an outline of the steps i went over here on the Screencast Team wiki17:49
ClassBotquietone asked: what is parec?17:49
duanedesignpulse audio record17:50
ClassBotThere are 10 minutes remaining in the current session.17:51
duanedesignthe script also auto magically encodes the video into a couple different formats. avi, ogv, flv17:51
ClassBotalucardni asked: Can we record screencast in other languages (Spanish in my case) for the Screencast Team?17:52
duanedesignthat is a great question17:52
duanedesigni am a huge fan of making resources available to as many people as possible17:52
duanedesignalucardni: if you want you can email me and we can talk more about it. Or you can find me in #ubuntu screencast17:54
duanedesignbut i would definetly like to see multilingual screencasts!17:56
ClassBotThere are 5 minutes remaining in the current session.17:56
duanedesignok any last questions?17:56
duanedesignyou can also find me, like i said, in #ubuntu-screencast and/or you can email me. duane design at ubuntu dot com17:56
duanedesignthank you everyone for lending me your eyeballs :)17:57
* highvoltage taps mic... is this thing on?18:00
highvoltageah, great :)18:00
highvoltagehi everyone! welcome to the Ubuntu in Education openweek session18:00
highvoltageI'll be standing in for Belinda Lopez, who you may know as "dinda" on IRC18:00
=== ChanServ changed the topic of #ubuntu-classroom to: Welcome to the Ubuntu Classroom - https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Classroom || Support in #ubuntu || Upcoming Schedule: http://is.gd/8rtIi || Questions in #ubuntu-classroom-chat || UOW Survey: http://is.gd/fZlwL || Event: Ubuntu Open Week - Current Session: Ubuntu in Education - Instructors: highvoltage
ClassBotLogs for this session will be available at http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2010/10/14/%23ubuntu-classroom.html following the conclusion of the session.18:01
highvoltageshe's out spreading the Ubuntu word to educational institutions in Malaysia18:01
highvoltageso she wasn't able to present this specific session.18:02
highvoltageSo, what is Ubuntu in Education? What is Edubuntu? What's the difference and why should anyone care?18:02
=== luis__lopez is now known as luis_lopez
highvoltageI'm going to attempt to answer these questions today, and also your answers as asked in #ubuntu-classroon-chat18:03
highvoltageI haven't prepared much for this session, so if we run out of questions we'll just finish early and have some cake and tea :)18:03
highvoltageI thought it might be a good idea to provide some background on myself and where I come from, maybe it will be easier to relate the information if I do that18:04
highvoltagea few years ago, I planned to get some old computers into schools to teach kids basic Linux administration and maybe even some python and scripting18:04
highvoltageI posted to the local linux users group and got in touch with a non-profit which was gearing up to also receive large amounts of donated computers and provide them to schools18:04
highvoltagelong story short, I ended up contracting and later on working for that non-profit, and we ended up installing more than 300 computer labs in South Africa18:05
highvoltagethey ran LTSP so it was quite easy and fast to set up, and also to educate teachers on how to set up everything themselves18:05
highvoltageon some special occasion days (like Youth Day in South Africa), we managed to even set up 10 computer labs in a single day18:06
highvoltageusing only teachers from existing schools who decided to volunteer and help other schools, along with some other regular volunteers we had18:06
highvoltagethe focus in that project was also more towards education, as in, curriculum aligned, as apposed to teaching IT skills as I originally wanted to18:07
highvoltagestill, it was a great project to be involved in, and it was awesome begin able to empower people to do things for themselves.18:07
highvoltagewe expanded the project later to some NGO organisations, and also 2 adult prisons18:08
highvoltagethe prisons were quite interesting since in South Africa, inmates generally don't have internet access18:08
highvoltageand when they do, it's very, very limited and monitored18:08
highvoltageour solution at the time were mostly targeted at kids, so we we're a bit nervous how adults were going to respond to it18:09
highvoltageto our surprise, the custom ubuntu system we put together actually worked quite well. some of the people in the prison who couldn't read started to play the kids games, the inmates started helping each other and the literacy improved18:10
highvoltageit was quite interesting, although I moved to more commercial projects afterwards and lost touch with what was happening in those projects afterwards18:11
highvoltagetoday I work for a company that provides large scale Ubuntu and LTSP solutions, and quite a number of our clients are big schools.18:11
highvoltageIn my experiences Ubuntu is really a great platform for schools and education. It's so much safer to use, it's less work to maintain, and it gives you a *lot* out of the box.18:12
highvoltageI also got involved in the Edubuntu project, which I'll try not to speak *too* much about, and rather leave some space for more questions.18:13
highvoltageEdubuntu maintains the educational packages in Ubuntu, and also tries to get in new packages18:13
highvoltageThe Edubuntu project also puts together the Edubuntu iso disc, which is an Ubuntu system that installs the packages that the Edubuntu team is involved with18:14
highvoltagewe're constantly working on improving Edubuntu, with the goal that it will be a great general all-purpose educational system for homes and classrooms alike18:14
highvoltagewith the last release we made some good strides, and we plan to shake things up a bit for the next release by implementing some new things that will make it much more flexible and more suitable for more kinds of environments18:15
highvoltageI'll blabber about Edubuntu just a *bit* more :)18:16
highvoltagethe project went through a bit of a dive a few releases ago where we lost most of our contributors due to some politics in the project18:17
highvoltagein the meantime we've been rebuilding the project, and basically started from scratch18:17
highvoltageedubuntu is now not about a system, about software, but about the people involved and the things that they do18:18
highvoltagethat's why you'll often see us say things like "edubuntu is a group of people..." in our descriptions instead of "edubuntu is a system designed to blah blah blah"18:18
highvoltageabout two months ago we launched a new Edubuntu website, it's still very much work in progress,18:18
highvoltagebut the next phase it to make it a lot more personal18:19
highvoltagewe want to include stories, pictures and videos of people out there who made things work and who managed to do some interesting and cool stuff with Ubuntu in education18:19
highvoltagedinda started a wiki page where schools could list their details, I'll probably be contacting some of these schools and aksing them if they'd like to share their story for out site18:20
highvoltagethis list is currently at: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Education/UbuntuSchools18:20
highvoltagealso, if you're interested in the Edubuntu website, you could find it here: http://edubuntu.org/18:20
highvoltagewe also started twitter, idetnica and a youtube profile with the launching of the new website18:21
highvoltageon our youtube channel we favourited some video uploads related to education and ubuntu in schools that some of you might find interesting: http://www.youtube.com/user/edubuntuproject18:21
highvoltagewe'd like to expand that channel drastically over the next year or so. we'll need some help on that though :)18:22
highvoltagethe edubuntu screenshots page also featues some of the educational tools available in Ubuntu, that are also shipped with the Edubuntu system18:23
highvoltagestgraber, who just joined the channel, is also involved with the edubuntu project18:23
highvoltageany questions or comments at this stage?18:24
* stgraber waves18:24
highvoltageFor those who asked questions, the bot didn't notify me so I'll just need a second to go sift them out :)18:25
highvoltage13:08 < quietone> QUESTION: what is LTSP?18:26
highvoltageLTSP is short for Linux Terminal Server Project, it allows you to install Ubuntu (or Edubuntu) or pretty much any Linux distribution18:26
highvoltageon one single machine18:26
highvoltagetypically a good server machine18:27
highvoltageand then you connect a series of diskless machines that boots from it over the network18:27
ClassBotmhall119 asked: How much does it cost a school, on average, when you do one of these deployments?18:28
highvoltagethe project that I worked on in 2003-2006 specifically did it on as much of a shoestring budget as possible18:29
highvoltageit's an extreme example, but it gives an idea of what can be done18:29
highvoltagefor a typical computer lab, consisting of switch, LTSP server, 20 used computers (which we typically didn't pay for), and the cables, etc we typically had a budget of R2000018:30
highvoltagethat's only about €215018:30
highvoltagethe schools would implement their own desks, etc and make sure that the classroom is ready to transform into a computer lab18:30
highvoltageand then we'd go in on a saturday with volunteers and set everything up with the teachers at the school18:31
highvoltagein general, it would cost more, but using LTSP you can really start with very little and expand from there, which is one of the reasons we work so hard to integrate it properly with edubuntu18:32
ClassBotmhall119 asked: and also, how many people (both at your company and the school) are involved in the implementation?18:32
highvoltagegood question. we have staff in canada, brazil and france. it differs from location to location. the current schools we work with like to be quite dependent, so we provide a lot of our services remotely18:33
highvoltagewith the south african schools that was quite tough because many of the schools didn't even have an Internet connection in their labs18:34
highvoltageso remote support was often not even an option.18:34
highvoltagein Canada it's quite different though :)18:34
ClassBothelger asked: Why is Edubuntu only available on DVD? In many parts of the world it is common that computer labs at schools consist of dontated second hand computers. These computers do not have DVD players and can often not boot from USB... How can one install Edubuntu in this case?18:34
highvoltagehelger: great question18:35
highvoltagethe short answer: you can't18:35
highvoltagewe have a problem with Edubuntu at the moment where we just install *everything* that's available18:35
highvoltageso due to a lot of the services that start up on the disc, it ends up needing 1GB of RAM to install with a full desktop install session18:36
highvoltagethat's just way too much for a typical old computer18:36
highvoltagefor Edubuntu 11.04, we're going to componentize it more so that you can specifically choose the software you want to install18:36
highvoltageit will require much less RAM to install and will be more suitable for older computers as well18:36
highvoltageif you have lots of old computers you probably also want to use LTSP as well18:37
highvoltageYou'll find that the Edubuntu team is quite helpful, and will attempt to help a school in the support lists/channel even if they run Xubuntu or Lubuntu or one fo the Ubuntu variants aimed at smaller systems18:38
highvoltageother systems will just provide much less out of the box, and especially some systems like Lubuntu might not quite provide the level of usability that educators and students may require18:39
highvoltageas for the DVD part, we do try to keep it small18:39
highvoltagebut keeping Edubuntu to once CD is extremely hard, considering that Ubuntu already has a tough time fitting on a CD, and we're adding to that18:39
highvoltageat one point, we split Edubuntu off to an add-on CD to Ubuntu18:40
highvoltagethat way you had two CD's, one with the 700MB of Ubuntu that was already included in the Edubuntu disc, and the add-on disc that then contained the Edubuntu parts18:40
highvoltageeven though it seemed like a great idea technically at the time18:41
highvoltagewe had to deal with a lot of outrage from our users who were unhappy about it18:41
highvoltagepeople made it clear that what they wanted was a turn-key solution, and that we were wasting our time with the add-on Cd18:41
highvoltagewe listened and merged the edubuntu-addon CD back with an Ubuntu system to provide a full Edubuntu system again18:42
highvoltageand it just grew from there18:42
highvoltage(shew long answer!)18:42
ClassBotsebsebseb asked: Why is there not a version of Edubuntu based on KDE?18:42
highvoltagewhat makes you think there's not ;)18:42
highvoltageon KDE, it works more like it did with our add-on CD in the past18:43
highvoltagefirst, you have to install Kubuntu, and then you can install the edubuntu-desktop-kde package18:43
highvoltagewe provide some instructions for this on http://edubuntu.org/download18:43
highvoltageI'm not 100% sure how well the Edubuntu KDE desktop is maintained at this point, but we certainly welcome wider testing and reporting of bugs!18:44
highvoltageas for a full-install spin with a default KDE desktop, we just don't have the resources currently to test all those builds when it comes to release milestones and releases18:45
highvoltageI'm also quite confident that the average KDE user would be skillul enough to be able to select and install packages on their system :)18:46
highvoltageI've answered quite a few Edubuntu questions18:46
highvoltageany education or school related questions out there?18:46
highvoltageI've just peeked at -chat, and regarding the earlier question about how big Edubuntu is, there is also the Qimo project that is based on Xfce. We collaborate a bit with that project as well18:47
highvoltagetheir website is http://www.qimo4kids.com/18:48
highvoltageqimo is targeted at kids and great if you have small kids and you want to install it on your home computer18:48
ClassBotmhall119 asked: in the USA there seems to be an attitude of "Kids should only learn Windows, because that's all they'll use when they grow up".  How do you overcome that?18:49
highvoltageI *love* that question18:49
highvoltageand have come across it a lot in South Africa too18:49
highvoltagenot to get too deep into politics, but in the Apartheid era in South Africa the government didn't allow some schools in certain 'black areas' at the time to offer subjects like mathematics and science, because they said that those people wouldn't be able to go to university or be able to get a good job anyway18:50
ClassBotThere are 10 minutes remaining in the current session.18:51
highvoltageit was a quite horrible system where they had to learn mundane work because "that's what they're going to be doing one day anyway"18:51
highvoltagein the same veign, I argued that teacing kids to be simple office workers just because that is what many people are likely to become is wrong18:52
highvoltageeducation shouldn't be about dumbing people down to the most common denominator18:52
highvoltageit should be about teaching people and helping them to reach their potential18:52
highvoltageteaching them to think in one very specific way isn't doing that. teaching them how very different systems look and work and teaching them the concepts instead is much more useful, imho18:53
highvoltageespecially since technologies change a lot. in one period people might use WordStar, then WordPerfect, then MSWord for DOS 5.5, then MS Office, then OpenOffice... history has shown that things change anyway :)18:54
ClassBotmhall119 asked: Do you do anything to help schools improve their curiculum for teaching about computers?18:55
ClassBotThere are 5 minutes remaining in the current session.18:56
highvoltagenot currently, but I know of projects that do, one non-profit I worked with (Ikamva Youth) has put together a curriculum for their students18:56
highvoltageI haven't been following them recently so I'm unable to comment on the exact status, but I can recommend googling them :)18:57
highvoltageThis is not so much a question but a comment I noticed while glancing over -chat:18:57
highvoltage13:53 < mick_laptop> M$ gives free copies of windows and offers to help w/ elecvtricity etc for using windows18:57
highvoltagein South Africa, we had the problem of some of the labs we installed being actively removed to make space for free Windows labs18:57
highvoltagewe lost some schools purely because the local organisation taht was funded by Microsoft (at least in part) provided the schools with much more than we could at the time18:58
highvoltagein the beginned it was very painful to deal with that18:58
highvoltagebut after it happened with a few schools, we found a whole lot more schools who refused that offer and said that they specifically want to stay with free software and do things for themselves18:59
highvoltageit was great to see that there were so many teachers who were so passionate about it that some of them even argued it with the headmaster of the school at the risk of losing their jobs18:59
ClassBottentwelveeight asked: Edubuntu's goal says: "Our aim is to put together a system that contains all the best free software available in education in an easy to install and maintain package. (we'll rephrase this soon and also mention our emphasis on usability...)". Why the rephrasing, and how can I get Canonical to support the "maintain" aspect by offering Landscape to schools and educational organizations for free?19:00
ClassBotLogs for this session will be available at http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2010/10/14/%23ubuntu-classroom.html19:01
highvoltagetentwelveeight: heh, I meant to clean that up a bit when we launched the new website... and I guess I'm gon enow :)19:01
=== ChanServ changed the topic of #ubuntu-classroom to: Welcome to the Ubuntu Classroom - https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Classroom || Support in #ubuntu || Upcoming Schedule: http://is.gd/8rtIi || Questions in #ubuntu-classroom-chat || UOW Survey: http://is.gd/fZlwL ||
tentwelveeightno worries. nice job jonathan19:02
sebsebsebOh yeah can chat in here again, well lets say it in here as well then :D  highvoltage Good session :)19:04
helgerthanks highvoltage.great session :-)19:04
sebsebsebGot cut off though, but nevermind19:05
mhall119sebsebseb: the party never stops at #edubuntu ;)19:06
sebsebsebhighvoltage: oh you could have done some extra time here, if you really wanted to, but nevermind19:17
=== cjohnston_ is now known as cjohnston
=== JanC_ is now known as JanC
=== MichealH is now known as lassemon
=== lassemon is now known as MichealH
=== maco2 is now known as maco
ElvisTheKingQUESTION: what is the best tool for development? i am new in ubuntu22:55

Generated by irclog2html.py 2.7 by Marius Gedminas - find it at mg.pov.lt!