/srv/irclogs.ubuntu.com/2010/10/14/#ubuntu-irc.txt

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ubot2AndrewMC called the ops in #ubuntu-beginners ()17:01
GPenguinhello. is this the right place to discuss #ubuntu-de affairs, my channel ban and things like that?19:26
Mohan_chmlGPenguin: First of all, who banned you? what you did which forced them to ban you?19:29
erUSULGPenguin: if the #ubuntu-de those not have an operator channel and you couldn't discuss it with an opearator in private ....19:29
GPenguini dont remember who placed the ban, it lasts since a few months19:30
GPenguini was observing #ubuntu-de to that time. and there was a hostile climate. newbies were treated in a rude way19:30
GPenguinso i voiced my complaint and was called a troll, etc.19:31
GPenguinas far as i remember, the german channel ops expected me to follow the ubuntu code of conduct while they ignored it19:32
GPenguinso i ranted on #freenode about abusive people who should not run #ubuntu-de19:33
PiciGPenguin: #ubuntu-de-ops exists.  None of us here currently can help you with your ban, so no need to explain the circumstances.19:33
GPenguini dont think i can resolve this with the german people19:34
GPenguinand i would like to read first, how these channels are run actually19:34
GPenguinmaybe the whole problem can be solved by renaming the channels to ##ubuntu-de19:34
rwwI don't think encouraging the use of ##*ubuntu* is a good idea, personally.19:35
GPenguinfrom an official support channel i expect, that new people are treated nicely, because they are potential helpers and contributors19:37
GPenguinthe problem is that multiple channels ops dont know "nice" at all19:37
GPenguinthey think its about asking smart questions or about showing respect for people with access, etc.19:38
GPenguinnot really a fit for the ubuntu philosophy19:38
GPenguinbut maybe i am mistaken and this has officially changed19:38
Mohan_chmlGPenguin: please ask about your bans in #ubuntu-de-ops and people here can't help you with that.19:39
GPenguinwhats the next level higher to this place here?19:39
PiciGPenguin: You need to talk to the #ubuntu-de ops first.19:39
GPenguini wasted a lot of time with those german people already19:40
GPenguinso when this place here is not the right place, whats the next level higher?19:40
GPenguinwould it help my case if i get a few people to blog about it?19:49
GPenguinmaybe the community manager should be made aware of this19:50
k1lGPenguin: u escalated this here already on march 2nd.19:50
GPenguinyeah, because some of you think this is a funny game19:50
GPenguinyou move me from one channel to another one and the problem is not resolved19:50
GPenguinon the one side you and your marketing department are asking more and more people to come to IRC. but on the other side, some people are not ready to handle these people properly19:51
k1lno, because of your behavior you got banned from the german ubuntu channels. you were swearing at people. so you couldnt stay in there19:51
GPenguini dont care about the channel ban19:51
PiciThen?19:52
GPenguini care about those people who will get abused every day19:52
GPenguinnewbies who might ask a stupid question19:52
GPenguinpeople who are seeking guidance19:52
GPenguini dont get why a certain type of personality gets all the IRC jobs here, when these are not capable of running "social", "friendly" and "nice" places19:53
GPenguinnobody needs help robots who process tickets as fast as possible19:53
k1land what is about your problems with the german ubuntu-de mailing list. and the problems with the debian channels and mailin list. and freenode itself? dont you think your behavour leads to alle these problems?19:53
GPenguink1l: the fact that i suffer from schizophrenia and the fact that i have a long history on IRC should not matter too much, because i can name you more than 10 people who supported me in march, when i voiced these problems19:54
GPenguink1l: and as far as i can see, you are not even a _member_19:55
rwwUbuntu membership or lack thereof has little to do with this issue.19:55
GPenguinoh yes?19:56
GPenguinthats interesting19:56
k1lbut one one hand you say one problem is that newbies might get a rude answer. but on the other hand you say its ok to insult others.19:56
GPenguinwhat?19:56
GPenguinnow _you_ feel insulted, oh no. i am sorry.19:57
k1ljust to make it clear: i am an op of #ubuntu-de*19:57
GPenguini dont care about your access19:57
k1land everyone here can have a look at their backlog if they want to know what happend back then19:58
GPenguinmy point was and still is, that #ubuntu-de is picking up the negative attitude of #debian.de19:58
GPenguinand i can wait till i am having an interview with the right people19:58
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GPenguin#debian.de #ubuntu-de and #gentoo.de are famous for their abusive way of treating newbies19:59
FuchsGPenguin: basically you had interviews with 4 different teams, and none of them supported you, so: maybe sit down and think for a few minutes whether the problem is not on our side19:59
GPenguinFuchs: i had 10 people back in march who came to me in private and said "finally, somebody who picks it up"20:00
GPenguinlets see if we can get all of them to write a blog article20:00
FuchsGPenguin: we had a few dozens being glad that you got banned ... so I guess I won't count this as an argument20:00
Fuchs(for the record: I am an operator in the german ubuntu channels plus in the ubuntuusers portal channels)20:01
GPenguinFuchs: one more proof for the antisocial nature of some people20:01
GPenguinwhats your full name please?20:01
k1lGPenguin: the point where you disqualified for the channels was where you did refuse to stick to channelrules and discuss this in the offtopic channel for example, so that the regular support can go on.20:01
GPenguink1l: no20:02
k1lGPenguin: sure20:02
GPenguink1l: you keep trying to discuss my ban while thats not the main focus20:02
GPenguinnur um mich zu defamieren20:02
GPenguinein weiteres zeichen weshalb leute wie du unfähig sind solche channels zu leiten20:02
FuchsGPenguin: it is the main focus. You are accusing people of not being social here,20:02
k1lu cam here to talk about the ban.20:02
GPenguinno20:02
FuchsGPenguin: while you insult people and show a lack of social abilities on your side20:02
GPenguinFuchs: whats your realname please?20:03
FuchsGPenguin: Christian, as you can see via whois20:03
GPenguinthats not a full name20:03
FuchsIt's full enough for you20:03
GPenguinattitude problem20:03
GPenguinsee...20:03
GPenguinasperger syndrome maybe20:04
Fuchsyes, I see that you accuse other people of any kind of problems,20:04
GPenguini ignore you from now on20:04
GPenguinso back to you k1l20:04
k1lGPenguin: please stop to call people asperger20:04
Fuchswhile not being able to even think that you might be the one with problems.20:04
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FuchsGPenguin: do as you please, but keep in mind that everything is logged,20:04
GPenguinFuchs: if you are scared to talk to me with your real identity then better move on20:04
FuchsGPenguin: so while looking for people to support you, keep in mind that everything you do here and did in the past might not be helpful20:05
GPenguindude20:05
rwwGPenguin: There are plenty of reasons for people not to use their full names. Whether or not they do also has nothing to do with this issue that I can see.20:05
GPenguinrww: he brought up my history with freenode and debian. thats why his identity is essential20:05
GPenguini have no problem to openly discuss my schizophrenia. but i talk this face to face. not with anonymous morons20:05
GPenguinand not with _teenagers_20:06
Fuchs\o/   I feel a lot younger now :)20:07
GPenguinsee. attitude problem. its not just me here :-))20:07
FuchsGPenguin: anyway, if you think that you get help by insulting random people in many different IRC channels (I count 5 so far): Just keep going20:07
GPenguinasperger type personalities always have issues with schizophrenics :-)))20:07
k1lGPenguin: i brought up yyour history with debian and freenode, because others might want to know, whats behind your acting. im not a teenager, i got a lot of social life. and because u wont stop insulting im out of this discussion20:07
Tm_TGPenguin: stop that unconstructive namecalling20:07
GPenguinFuchs: i insulted 5 people while i talk to 2 people? how is that possible?20:08
Fuchs5 IRC channels. In 3 of them you are banned since a long time. But anyway, I guess the others here get the picture anyway.20:09
GPenguinTm_T: the definition of aspergers is "not capable of handling social situations and conflicts" and its not name calling at all to label somebody as asperger if they are behaving that way20:09
GPenguinTm_T: its pretty much the mirror disease to my schizophrenia20:09
GPenguinand thats why these people "love it" how things go20:10
Tm_TGPenguin: I know very well what asberger is, stop it20:10
GPenguinbecause they believe its about my person while its not20:10
rwwCan you stop throwing around questionable psychological definitions and stick to the issue, please?20:10
GPenguinits about the protection, the guidance and care of newbies who enter #ubuntu-de20:10
GPenguinthese typical germans made this a case of "we dont like _him_ as person. thats why we wont resolve the problem."20:11
GPenguinbut its not about my person at all20:11
GPenguinits not about removing a channel ban :-)))20:12
GPenguinagain: its about the protection, the guidance and care of newbies who enter #ubuntu-de20:12
GPenguinand after the experience of today i can only repeat: the best would be to rename the channel to ##ubuntu-de20:13
GPenguinso they can run this as private hobbby20:14
GPenguinbut not as official ubuntu channel20:14
GPenguinthe reason is simple: not capable of handling social situations and conflicts20:14
charlie-tcaWouldn't getting yourself unbanned be more benefit to those new people?20:14
GPenguinno20:15
GPenguini could walk around the ban or stay out of there forever. both is fine. thats really not my point here.20:15
GPenguingerman linux support channels are infamous for their antisocial and hostile climate20:15
GPenguini dont see why Ubuntu has to be included20:16
rwwEvading channel bans is a violation of freenode network policy. I don't recommend suggesting that you're going to "walk around the ban".20:16
GPenguinnot with such a shiny marketing department, slogans, ethics, etc.20:16
GPenguinrww: you still dont get it?20:16
GPenguinrww: are you trying to _DISTRACT_ or resolve?20:16
GPenguin#ubuntu-de has the same negative reputation as #debian.de and #gentoo.de20:18
GPenguinand you guys are either going to help fix it20:18
GPenguinor you sign for the wrong side20:18
GPenguineither on my costs, on costs of my schizophrenia or only because you like Ubuntu20:18
GPenguinfor Debian i lost my battle20:19
GPenguinbut thats not your business20:19
GPenguini will keep to battle for social places20:19
GPenguinbecause thats how the whole community works. you join a _peaceful_ and _friendly_ place and get hooked up. you wanna be part of the community. you become a helper and contributor20:21
GPenguinbut what #ubuntu-de teaches their newbies is how to become a bastard operator from hell20:21
GPenguinthats a real shame that some do still not get how this was a parody20:22
GPenguinthats why the reference to the asperger syndrome20:22
GPenguinbecause that is _so_ obvious20:22
GPenguinwhat healthy person is dreaming of becoming a bastard operator from hell20:23
highvoltagewow you sure do a lot of name-calling.20:23
m4vwe had this discussion here before, and we didn't get nowhere...20:26
GPenguinhighvoltage: i dont think you know what namecalling actually is20:27
GPenguinon your behalf you are all sensible20:28
GPenguinbut you have no problems to point with the finger on old problems, old bans, my schizophrenia, etc.20:28
Tm_TGPenguin: this is last warning, stop the namecalling, or all your references to asperger20:28
GPenguinthats very interesting20:28
GPenguinTm_T: right, that was the last chance. i am addressing Mark now.20:29
GPenguinyou will be looking forward to a set of interviews20:29
Tm_Tgood20:30
GPenguinyou signed the code of conduct. you escalate.20:30
m4vyou should try to tone down that attitude, is hard to take you seriously..20:30
rwwwho's "Mark"?20:30
GPenguinm4v: how serious you or others take me is not my business anymore20:30
GPenguinmost important is, that we all have a log20:31
GPenguinand we are going to discuss the log on as many platforms as possible20:31
PiciWe?20:31
GPenguinthen we are going to see how illegal it is to talk about the Aspergers Syndrome20:31
GPenguinit will be in the center of discussions like my schizophrenia20:32
GPenguinbecause Ubuntu is also about people :-)))20:32
GPenguinJono Bacon knows20:32
GPenguina few others know, too20:33
ts2I'm sure they'll point you in the direction of the relevant council(s)20:33
GPenguinand a lot more people will have to learn that support is about being social, not about being a perfect robot20:33
Fuchsts2: we already directed him to the IRC council20:34
GPenguinthose who dream about becoming a perfectionist, robot-like thing can join the Debian or Gentoo community :-)))20:34
ts2however, I think this discussion has stopped being productive now, GPenguin20:34
GPenguinor attend therapy sessions20:34
GPenguini do attent therapy sessions. no shame in that20:34
Tm_TI would rather discuss the actual topic in productive manner20:35
GPenguinFuchs: still waiting for your full identity20:35
FuchsGPenguin: you won't get it20:35
FuchsGPenguin: I see no reason nor obligation in giving it to you, sorry.20:35
GPenguinits the due respect20:36
GPenguini talk to you as real person. you address me.20:36
ts2it's his right to deny your request20:36
GPenguinyou do it with your real identity or you move20:36
Fuchsif you can talk to me without insulting, we can talk about respect. In the meantime I'd say we try focussing on the topic.20:36
charlie-tcaRespect is earned, not a right20:36
xteejxWhat's all this then?20:36
xteejxlol20:36
GPenguinwhat a load of nonesense we are fishing now20:36
GPenguinEOF.20:37
GPenguinah, one thing. i almost forgot. we do have permission to publish the full log or do we need to walk around this problem by using quotes?20:38
tsimpsonit20:38
rww!198420:38
ubottuOfficial channel logs can be found at http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/ - For LoCo channels, http://logs.ubuntu-eu.org/freenode/20:38
Picirww: :)20:38
GPenguinvery nice, thank you20:38
rww(#ubuntu-irc is on the first site, #ubuntu-de the second)20:39
GPenguin"anonymous jerks tried to troll poor me, schizophrenic, most hated, ..."20:39
m4vGPenguin: cut that off20:39
GPenguinmake me20:39
topyliyes, please :)20:40
GPenguintopyli: hey, your name sounds like a good song. what do you think about the social agenda of this nice community?20:40
tsimpsonGPenguin: that's off topic for this channel20:40
GPenguinit is?20:41
GPenguinbummer20:41
GPenguinwill have to move that to other platforms aswell20:41
tsimpsonvery well20:41
GPenguinat least i am not going to be a bored blogger anytime soon20:41
GPenguinand i _will_ find out about the identity of several people20:42
rwwWell, that's creepy.20:42
GPenguinthats my right20:42
tsimpsonyou don't do anything illegal20:42
GPenguinlike that is topic here, what i do and what i better dont do20:42
GPenguinif somebody is hiding behind an anonymous way of being but trying so hard to give me a bad reputation, only to cover his rotten self, well sorry. i am not playing fair on this one20:43
GPenguinits not like we all are taking part in some game20:44
GPenguinthis is real20:44
tsimpsonthis is IRC20:44
GPenguinits still real20:44
GPenguinno law-free zone20:44
GPenguinno playground for Aspergers20:44
tsimpsonseriously, that's enough now20:45
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niko+z is useless here no ?20:57
ubot4In #ubuntu-irc, niko said: +z is useless here no ?20:57
nikoubot4: thanks, i noticed20:57
ubot4niko: Error: I am only a bot, please don't think I'm intelligent :)20:57
Piciniko: does it hurt?20:58
nikopeople could not notice they are quieted20:59
tomawie, the ircd won't tell people the message wasn't sent if the channel is +z21:00
nhandlerniko, tomaw: ^^^21:11
m4vchanserv doesn't give a notice when you're being quieted anyway?21:11
nhandlerm4v: It only notices if the quiet affects a large number of users iirc21:11
nikom4v: when you are quieted, not when you join later21:11
nikonhandler: you talk about public notice21:12
m4vok, point taken21:12
tomawit notices the victim(s) if that's four or less people, otherwise the channel21:12
tsimpsonand chanserv will only give you a notice if you use it to quite (not /mode +q manually)21:12
tsimpson*them, not you21:13
guntbertnhandler: may I draw your attention to Markell in #freenode?21:14
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