[17:01] <ubot2> AndrewMC called the ops in #ubuntu-beginners ()
[19:26] <GPenguin> hello. is this the right place to discuss #ubuntu-de affairs, my channel ban and things like that?
[19:29] <Mohan_chml> GPenguin: First of all, who banned you? what you did which forced them to ban you?
[19:29] <erUSUL> GPenguin: if the #ubuntu-de those not have an operator channel and you couldn't discuss it with an opearator in private ....
[19:30] <GPenguin> i dont remember who placed the ban, it lasts since a few months
[19:30] <GPenguin> i was observing #ubuntu-de to that time. and there was a hostile climate. newbies were treated in a rude way
[19:31] <GPenguin> so i voiced my complaint and was called a troll, etc.
[19:32] <GPenguin> as far as i remember, the german channel ops expected me to follow the ubuntu code of conduct while they ignored it
[19:33] <GPenguin> so i ranted on #freenode about abusive people who should not run #ubuntu-de
[19:33] <Pici> GPenguin: #ubuntu-de-ops exists.  None of us here currently can help you with your ban, so no need to explain the circumstances.
[19:34] <GPenguin> i dont think i can resolve this with the german people
[19:34] <GPenguin> and i would like to read first, how these channels are run actually
[19:34] <GPenguin> maybe the whole problem can be solved by renaming the channels to ##ubuntu-de
[19:35] <rww> I don't think encouraging the use of ##*ubuntu* is a good idea, personally.
[19:37] <GPenguin> from an official support channel i expect, that new people are treated nicely, because they are potential helpers and contributors
[19:37] <GPenguin> the problem is that multiple channels ops dont know "nice" at all
[19:38] <GPenguin> they think its about asking smart questions or about showing respect for people with access, etc.
[19:38] <GPenguin> not really a fit for the ubuntu philosophy
[19:38] <GPenguin> but maybe i am mistaken and this has officially changed
[19:39] <Mohan_chml> GPenguin: please ask about your bans in #ubuntu-de-ops and people here can't help you with that.
[19:39] <GPenguin> whats the next level higher to this place here?
[19:39] <Pici> GPenguin: You need to talk to the #ubuntu-de ops first.
[19:40] <GPenguin> i wasted a lot of time with those german people already
[19:40] <GPenguin> so when this place here is not the right place, whats the next level higher?
[19:49] <GPenguin> would it help my case if i get a few people to blog about it?
[19:50] <GPenguin> maybe the community manager should be made aware of this
[19:50] <k1l> GPenguin: u escalated this here already on march 2nd.
[19:50] <GPenguin> yeah, because some of you think this is a funny game
[19:50] <GPenguin> you move me from one channel to another one and the problem is not resolved
[19:51] <GPenguin> on the one side you and your marketing department are asking more and more people to come to IRC. but on the other side, some people are not ready to handle these people properly
[19:51] <k1l> no, because of your behavior you got banned from the german ubuntu channels. you were swearing at people. so you couldnt stay in there
[19:51] <GPenguin> i dont care about the channel ban
[19:52] <Pici> Then?
[19:52] <GPenguin> i care about those people who will get abused every day
[19:52] <GPenguin> newbies who might ask a stupid question
[19:52] <GPenguin> people who are seeking guidance
[19:53] <GPenguin> i dont get why a certain type of personality gets all the IRC jobs here, when these are not capable of running "social", "friendly" and "nice" places
[19:53] <GPenguin> nobody needs help robots who process tickets as fast as possible
[19:53] <k1l> and what is about your problems with the german ubuntu-de mailing list. and the problems with the debian channels and mailin list. and freenode itself? dont you think your behavour leads to alle these problems?
[19:54] <GPenguin> k1l: the fact that i suffer from schizophrenia and the fact that i have a long history on IRC should not matter too much, because i can name you more than 10 people who supported me in march, when i voiced these problems
[19:55] <GPenguin> k1l: and as far as i can see, you are not even a _member_
[19:55] <rww> Ubuntu membership or lack thereof has little to do with this issue.
[19:56] <GPenguin> oh yes?
[19:56] <GPenguin> thats interesting
[19:56] <k1l> but one one hand you say one problem is that newbies might get a rude answer. but on the other hand you say its ok to insult others.
[19:56] <GPenguin> what?
[19:57] <GPenguin> now _you_ feel insulted, oh no. i am sorry.
[19:57] <k1l> just to make it clear: i am an op of #ubuntu-de*
[19:57] <GPenguin> i dont care about your access
[19:58] <k1l> and everyone here can have a look at their backlog if they want to know what happend back then
[19:58] <GPenguin> my point was and still is, that #ubuntu-de is picking up the negative attitude of #debian.de
[19:58] <GPenguin> and i can wait till i am having an interview with the right people
[19:59] <GPenguin> #debian.de #ubuntu-de and #gentoo.de are famous for their abusive way of treating newbies
[19:59] <Fuchs> GPenguin: basically you had interviews with 4 different teams, and none of them supported you, so: maybe sit down and think for a few minutes whether the problem is not on our side
[20:00] <GPenguin> Fuchs: i had 10 people back in march who came to me in private and said "finally, somebody who picks it up"
[20:00] <GPenguin> lets see if we can get all of them to write a blog article
[20:00] <Fuchs> GPenguin: we had a few dozens being glad that you got banned ... so I guess I won't count this as an argument
[20:01] <Fuchs> (for the record: I am an operator in the german ubuntu channels plus in the ubuntuusers portal channels)
[20:01] <GPenguin> Fuchs: one more proof for the antisocial nature of some people
[20:01] <GPenguin> whats your full name please?
[20:01] <k1l> GPenguin: the point where you disqualified for the channels was where you did refuse to stick to channelrules and discuss this in the offtopic channel for example, so that the regular support can go on.
[20:02] <GPenguin> k1l: no
[20:02] <k1l> GPenguin: sure
[20:02] <GPenguin> k1l: you keep trying to discuss my ban while thats not the main focus
[20:02] <GPenguin> nur um mich zu defamieren
[20:02] <GPenguin> ein weiteres zeichen weshalb leute wie du unfähig sind solche channels zu leiten
[20:02] <Fuchs> GPenguin: it is the main focus. You are accusing people of not being social here,
[20:02] <k1l> u cam here to talk about the ban.
[20:02] <GPenguin> no
[20:02] <Fuchs> GPenguin: while you insult people and show a lack of social abilities on your side
[20:03] <GPenguin> Fuchs: whats your realname please?
[20:03] <Fuchs> GPenguin: Christian, as you can see via whois
[20:03] <GPenguin> thats not a full name
[20:03] <Fuchs> It's full enough for you
[20:03] <GPenguin> attitude problem
[20:03] <GPenguin> see...
[20:04] <GPenguin> asperger syndrome maybe
[20:04] <Fuchs> yes, I see that you accuse other people of any kind of problems,
[20:04] <GPenguin> i ignore you from now on
[20:04] <GPenguin> so back to you k1l
[20:04] <k1l> GPenguin: please stop to call people asperger
[20:04] <Fuchs> while not being able to even think that you might be the one with problems.
[20:04] <Fuchs> GPenguin: do as you please, but keep in mind that everything is logged,
[20:04] <GPenguin> Fuchs: if you are scared to talk to me with your real identity then better move on
[20:05] <Fuchs> GPenguin: so while looking for people to support you, keep in mind that everything you do here and did in the past might not be helpful
[20:05] <GPenguin> dude
[20:05] <rww> GPenguin: There are plenty of reasons for people not to use their full names. Whether or not they do also has nothing to do with this issue that I can see.
[20:05] <GPenguin> rww: he brought up my history with freenode and debian. thats why his identity is essential
[20:05] <GPenguin> i have no problem to openly discuss my schizophrenia. but i talk this face to face. not with anonymous morons
[20:06] <GPenguin> and not with _teenagers_
[20:07] <Fuchs> \o/   I feel a lot younger now :)
[20:07] <GPenguin> see. attitude problem. its not just me here :-))
[20:07] <Fuchs> GPenguin: anyway, if you think that you get help by insulting random people in many different IRC channels (I count 5 so far): Just keep going
[20:07] <GPenguin> asperger type personalities always have issues with schizophrenics :-)))
[20:07] <k1l> GPenguin: i brought up yyour history with debian and freenode, because others might want to know, whats behind your acting. im not a teenager, i got a lot of social life. and because u wont stop insulting im out of this discussion
[20:07] <Tm_T> GPenguin: stop that unconstructive namecalling
[20:08] <GPenguin> Fuchs: i insulted 5 people while i talk to 2 people? how is that possible?
[20:09] <Fuchs> 5 IRC channels. In 3 of them you are banned since a long time. But anyway, I guess the others here get the picture anyway.
[20:09] <GPenguin> Tm_T: the definition of aspergers is "not capable of handling social situations and conflicts" and its not name calling at all to label somebody as asperger if they are behaving that way
[20:09] <GPenguin> Tm_T: its pretty much the mirror disease to my schizophrenia
[20:10] <GPenguin> and thats why these people "love it" how things go
[20:10] <Tm_T> GPenguin: I know very well what asberger is, stop it
[20:10] <GPenguin> because they believe its about my person while its not
[20:10] <rww> Can you stop throwing around questionable psychological definitions and stick to the issue, please?
[20:10] <GPenguin> its about the protection, the guidance and care of newbies who enter #ubuntu-de
[20:11] <GPenguin> these typical germans made this a case of "we dont like _him_ as person. thats why we wont resolve the problem."
[20:11] <GPenguin> but its not about my person at all
[20:12] <GPenguin> its not about removing a channel ban :-)))
[20:12] <GPenguin> again: its about the protection, the guidance and care of newbies who enter #ubuntu-de
[20:13] <GPenguin> and after the experience of today i can only repeat: the best would be to rename the channel to ##ubuntu-de
[20:14] <GPenguin> so they can run this as private hobbby
[20:14] <GPenguin> but not as official ubuntu channel
[20:14] <GPenguin> the reason is simple: not capable of handling social situations and conflicts
[20:14] <charlie-tca> Wouldn't getting yourself unbanned be more benefit to those new people?
[20:15] <GPenguin> no
[20:15] <GPenguin> i could walk around the ban or stay out of there forever. both is fine. thats really not my point here.
[20:15] <GPenguin> german linux support channels are infamous for their antisocial and hostile climate
[20:16] <GPenguin> i dont see why Ubuntu has to be included
[20:16] <rww> Evading channel bans is a violation of freenode network policy. I don't recommend suggesting that you're going to "walk around the ban".
[20:16] <GPenguin> not with such a shiny marketing department, slogans, ethics, etc.
[20:16] <GPenguin> rww: you still dont get it?
[20:16] <GPenguin> rww: are you trying to _DISTRACT_ or resolve?
[20:18] <GPenguin> #ubuntu-de has the same negative reputation as #debian.de and #gentoo.de
[20:18] <GPenguin> and you guys are either going to help fix it
[20:18] <GPenguin> or you sign for the wrong side
[20:18] <GPenguin> either on my costs, on costs of my schizophrenia or only because you like Ubuntu
[20:19] <GPenguin> for Debian i lost my battle
[20:19] <GPenguin> but thats not your business
[20:19] <GPenguin> i will keep to battle for social places
[20:21] <GPenguin> because thats how the whole community works. you join a _peaceful_ and _friendly_ place and get hooked up. you wanna be part of the community. you become a helper and contributor
[20:21] <GPenguin> but what #ubuntu-de teaches their newbies is how to become a bastard operator from hell
[20:22] <GPenguin> thats a real shame that some do still not get how this was a parody
[20:22] <GPenguin> thats why the reference to the asperger syndrome
[20:22] <GPenguin> because that is _so_ obvious
[20:23] <GPenguin> what healthy person is dreaming of becoming a bastard operator from hell
[20:23] <highvoltage> wow you sure do a lot of name-calling.
[20:26] <m4v> we had this discussion here before, and we didn't get nowhere...
[20:27] <GPenguin> highvoltage: i dont think you know what namecalling actually is
[20:28] <GPenguin> on your behalf you are all sensible
[20:28] <GPenguin> but you have no problems to point with the finger on old problems, old bans, my schizophrenia, etc.
[20:28] <Tm_T> GPenguin: this is last warning, stop the namecalling, or all your references to asperger
[20:28] <GPenguin> thats very interesting
[20:29] <GPenguin> Tm_T: right, that was the last chance. i am addressing Mark now.
[20:29] <GPenguin> you will be looking forward to a set of interviews
[20:30] <Tm_T> good
[20:30] <GPenguin> you signed the code of conduct. you escalate.
[20:30] <m4v> you should try to tone down that attitude, is hard to take you seriously..
[20:30] <rww> who's "Mark"?
[20:30] <GPenguin> m4v: how serious you or others take me is not my business anymore
[20:31] <GPenguin> most important is, that we all have a log
[20:31] <GPenguin> and we are going to discuss the log on as many platforms as possible
[20:31] <Pici> We?
[20:31] <GPenguin> then we are going to see how illegal it is to talk about the Aspergers Syndrome
[20:32] <GPenguin> it will be in the center of discussions like my schizophrenia
[20:32] <GPenguin> because Ubuntu is also about people :-)))
[20:32] <GPenguin> Jono Bacon knows
[20:33] <GPenguin> a few others know, too
[20:33] <ts2> I'm sure they'll point you in the direction of the relevant council(s)
[20:33] <GPenguin> and a lot more people will have to learn that support is about being social, not about being a perfect robot
[20:34] <Fuchs> ts2: we already directed him to the IRC council
[20:34] <GPenguin> those who dream about becoming a perfectionist, robot-like thing can join the Debian or Gentoo community :-)))
[20:34] <ts2> however, I think this discussion has stopped being productive now, GPenguin
[20:34] <GPenguin> or attend therapy sessions
[20:34] <GPenguin> i do attent therapy sessions. no shame in that
[20:35] <Tm_T> I would rather discuss the actual topic in productive manner
[20:35] <GPenguin> Fuchs: still waiting for your full identity
[20:35] <Fuchs> GPenguin: you won't get it
[20:35] <Fuchs> GPenguin: I see no reason nor obligation in giving it to you, sorry.
[20:36] <GPenguin> its the due respect
[20:36] <GPenguin> i talk to you as real person. you address me.
[20:36] <ts2> it's his right to deny your request
[20:36] <GPenguin> you do it with your real identity or you move
[20:36] <Fuchs> if you can talk to me without insulting, we can talk about respect. In the meantime I'd say we try focussing on the topic.
[20:36] <charlie-tca> Respect is earned, not a right
[20:36] <xteejx> What's all this then?
[20:36] <xteejx> lol
[20:36] <GPenguin> what a load of nonesense we are fishing now
[20:37] <GPenguin> EOF.
[20:38] <GPenguin> ah, one thing. i almost forgot. we do have permission to publish the full log or do we need to walk around this problem by using quotes?
[20:38] <tsimpson> it
[20:38] <rww> !1984
[20:38] <Pici> rww: :)
[20:38] <GPenguin> very nice, thank you
[20:39] <rww> (#ubuntu-irc is on the first site, #ubuntu-de the second)
[20:39] <GPenguin> "anonymous jerks tried to troll poor me, schizophrenic, most hated, ..."
[20:39] <m4v> GPenguin: cut that off
[20:39] <GPenguin> make me
[20:40] <topyli> yes, please :)
[20:40] <GPenguin> topyli: hey, your name sounds like a good song. what do you think about the social agenda of this nice community?
[20:40] <tsimpson> GPenguin: that's off topic for this channel
[20:41] <GPenguin> it is?
[20:41] <GPenguin> bummer
[20:41] <GPenguin> will have to move that to other platforms aswell
[20:41] <tsimpson> very well
[20:41] <GPenguin> at least i am not going to be a bored blogger anytime soon
[20:42] <GPenguin> and i _will_ find out about the identity of several people
[20:42] <rww> Well, that's creepy.
[20:42] <GPenguin> thats my right
[20:42] <tsimpson> you don't do anything illegal
[20:42] <GPenguin> like that is topic here, what i do and what i better dont do
[20:43] <GPenguin> if somebody is hiding behind an anonymous way of being but trying so hard to give me a bad reputation, only to cover his rotten self, well sorry. i am not playing fair on this one
[20:44] <GPenguin> its not like we all are taking part in some game
[20:44] <GPenguin> this is real
[20:44] <tsimpson> this is IRC
[20:44] <GPenguin> its still real
[20:44] <GPenguin> no law-free zone
[20:44] <GPenguin> no playground for Aspergers
[20:45] <tsimpson> seriously, that's enough now
[20:57] <niko> +z is useless here no ?
[20:57] <ubot4> In #ubuntu-irc, niko said: +z is useless here no ?
[20:57] <niko> ubot4: thanks, i noticed
[20:57] <ubot4> niko: Error: I am only a bot, please don't think I'm intelligent :)
[20:58] <Pici> niko: does it hurt?
[20:59] <niko> people could not notice they are quieted
[21:00] <tomaw> ie, the ircd won't tell people the message wasn't sent if the channel is +z
[21:11] <nhandler> niko, tomaw: ^^^
[21:11] <m4v> chanserv doesn't give a notice when you're being quieted anyway?
[21:11] <nhandler> m4v: It only notices if the quiet affects a large number of users iirc
[21:11] <niko> m4v: when you are quieted, not when you join later
[21:12] <niko> nhandler: you talk about public notice
[21:12] <m4v> ok, point taken
[21:12] <tomaw> it notices the victim(s) if that's four or less people, otherwise the channel
[21:12] <tsimpson> and chanserv will only give you a notice if you use it to quite (not /mode +q manually)
[21:13] <tsimpson> *them, not you
[21:14] <guntbert> nhandler: may I draw your attention to Markell in #freenode?