| charlie-tca | If that link in the emails is real for a new wiki design, it really falls flat on accessibility for the visually impaired. If this an example of Canonical helping us, we better run fast! | 01:44 |
|---|---|---|
| nigelb | AlanBell: neat rant | 01:45 |
| Pendulum | charlie-tca: maybe e-mail back and then start filing bugs? | 01:45 |
| nigelb | clearly you're fighting with a designer "I don't like fluid layouts" he says | 01:45 |
| charlie-tca | What about text that is visible. Does he hate that too? | 01:46 |
| charlie-tca | I could not read more than half a page a day with that layout | 01:46 |
| charlie-tca | It makes my eyes burn | 01:46 |
| charlie-tca | and the text does not grow nicely at all. It distorts instead | 01:46 |
| charlie-tca | Do we really want an accessibility wiki that visually impaired uses will find really hard to read? | 01:47 |
| Pendulum | nope | 01:48 |
| nigelb | Pendulum: I wonder if we should mail Jane about it. | 05:01 |
| AlanBell | Pendulum: filing bugs is the place to start, as per sabdfl's response to your question | 06:55 |
| AlanBell | I have filed bug 654643 | 06:58 |
| ubot2 | Launchpad bug 654643 in ubuntu-website "low contrast text bad for low vision users (affects: 1) (heat: 6)" [Undecided,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/654643 | 06:58 |
| AlanBell | and bug 654625 | 06:59 |
| ubot2 | Launchpad bug 654625 in ubuntu-website "Width is not fluid (affects: 1) (heat: 6)" [Undecided,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/654625 | 06:59 |
| AlanBell | maybe if someone could go through https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu-website/+bugs and tag things with accessability as appropriate that would be useful | 07:00 |
| AlanBell | and file any new bugs you think of | 07:00 |
| AlanBell | then we can write the code and do the merge requests | 07:04 |
| AlanBell | which will either be accepted, which is great, or not, which means we escallate the issue | 07:05 |
| AlanBell | hmm, I can't tag things on launchpad at the moment | 07:09 |
| AlanBell | nigelb: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu-website/+bug/654643 trying to add an accessibility tag to this bug | 07:10 |
| ubot2 | Launchpad bug 654643 in ubuntu-website "low contrast text bad for low vision users (affects: 1) (heat: 6)" [Undecided,In progress] | 07:10 |
| nigelb | AlanBell: I just added the tag | 07:48 |
| nigelb | AlanBell: I don't have any more rights on that project than you do, so you sohuld be able to do it (is javascript enabled?) | 07:50 |
| AlanBell | how odd, doesn't work for me in firefox or chromium | 07:54 |
| AlanBell | on bugs.edge.launchpad.net or bugs.launchpad.net | 07:55 |
| nigelb | that's strange. | 07:55 |
| nigelb | are you clickin on the yellow button and waiting? | 07:55 |
| AlanBell | click yellow button, turns instantly to an input field with light-wiki in it | 07:56 |
| AlanBell | I add ", Accessibility" to the end of the field | 07:56 |
| nigelb | AlanBell: then click the tick mark | 07:57 |
| AlanBell | click the green tick, both ticks vanish, it stays an input field | 07:57 |
| AlanBell | doesn't go back to the blue links | 07:57 |
| nigelb | AlanBell: hrm, strange | 07:57 |
| nigelb | I tagged it like 4 times | 07:57 |
| nigelb | thansk to my very poor spelling | 07:57 |
| nigelb | as evidenced ^^ | 07:58 |
| nigelb | :p | 07:58 |
| AlanBell | :) | 07:58 |
| AlanBell | I can tag other bugs | 07:59 |
| nigelb | LOL | 07:59 |
| AlanBell | I just tagged bug 537408 | 08:00 |
| ubot2 | Launchpad bug 537408 in ubuntu-community "Ubuntu Community Support is patchy and has no recommended guidelines (affects: 1) (heat: 16)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/537408 | 08:00 |
| nigelb | that one's going to be fun | 08:00 |
| AlanBell | ah, got it working now | 08:00 |
| nigelb | strangely not, I wonder why it hasn't caught the eye of *cough* tabloids *cough* | 08:01 |
| AlanBell | tags are space separated not comma separated | 08:01 |
| nigelb | AlanBell: aha, you didn'te tell me you used comma | 08:01 |
| AlanBell | 07:53 < AlanBell> I add ", Accessibility" to the end of the field | 08:01 |
| AlanBell | did too! | 08:01 |
| nigelb | Right, I should learn to read then. | 08:02 |
| nigelb | I missed that bit. | 08:02 |
| AlanBell | doesn't like capitals in tags either | 08:06 |
| AlanBell | ok, been through all the bugs | 08:40 |
| AlanBell | https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu-website/+bugs?field.tag=accessibility | 08:40 |
| AlanBell | please file new ones | 08:40 |
| Pendulum | AlanBell: charlie is our official bug person | 12:23 |
| AlanBell | yup | 12:25 |
| AlanBell | and Mark Shuttleworth told us to file bugs, so it is only fair that we do so :) | 12:26 |
| AlanBell | lots of bugs | 12:26 |
| nigelb | yes, load 'em up | 12:28 |
| Pendulum | should I file some bugs about the fact that there's no in-built accessibility features on the main site (no way to change contrast, etc.) and no page explaining what their accessibility options for the website are? | 12:30 |
| Pendulum | AlanBell: has anyone responded to your e-mail? | 12:31 |
| AlanBell | no | 12:33 |
| Pendulum | AlanBell: I assume that was to my 2nd question? | 12:33 |
| AlanBell | of course :) | 12:34 |
| AlanBell | yes is the answer to your first question | 12:34 |
| AlanBell | https://lists.canonical.com/archives/ubuntu-website/2010-October/thread.html | 12:34 |
| AlanBell | it isn't a very active list | 12:35 |
| Pendulum | the real question is do I file the bug as the website not complying to W3C Accessibility standards, or do I file bugs as multiple issues | 12:35 |
| AlanBell | do both | 12:35 |
| AlanBell | one referencing the standard, then file a separate bug for each thing that could be fixed as a unit of work | 12:36 |
| Pendulum | of course, now this means I really need to read all the details of the standard ;-) | 12:38 |
| AlanBell | and get Flash to help point out missing bits | 12:40 |
| Pendulum | without charging me a consultant's fee :P | 12:41 |
| Pendulum | (since accessible webdesign and evaluations are what she does as her job) | 12:42 |
| AlanBell | and a career direction that would be interesting for you to explore :) | 12:51 |
| Pendulum | well, I'd need to learn design first :P | 12:52 |
| Pendulum | and I'm not sure it actually pays that well. I think she mostly does it because it's flexible (Flash also has EDS) | 12:52 |
| vish | Pendulum¦ have you seen » http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1lqfQi7146U ? | 13:16 |
| Pendulum | I don't think I'm going to click that link... | 13:16 |
| vish | hehe ;p | 13:16 |
| vish | just not to seem out of context : | 13:31 |
| vish | * Pendulum is still avoiding the cake song :) | 13:31 |
| vish | so /me tried to trick her :( | 13:31 |
| Pendulum | vish: I'm well aware you hang out in -community-team so it was hard to not notice the timing ;) | 13:33 |
| vish | Pendulum¦ yea, bad move on my part, i should have waited a day :( | 13:33 |
| AlanBell | nigelb: how do I find out who should review this? https://code.launchpad.net/~alanbell/dasher/bugfix-lp-579181/+merge/37528 | 13:42 |
| AlanBell | the dasher conversation is going in interesting directions | 15:33 |
| AlanBell | the dasher setup in launchpad is a bit of a mess, it imports from an obsolete SVN gnome repository, but Ubuntu gets packages from Debian | 15:34 |
| AlanBell | nobody is looking after the bugs reported, nobody is merging stuff | 15:34 |
| AlanBell | so we are going to discuss the adopt an upstream stuff with jcastro in -motu shortly | 15:35 |
| Pendulum | AlanBell: has discoussion started yet? | 16:04 |
| AlanBell | oh yes | 16:06 |
| AlanBell | gnome bug 632226 | 16:06 |
| ubot2 | Gnome bug 632226 in core "Dasher is hard to use to operate IRC clients such as irssi" [Normal,Unconfirmed] http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=632226 | 16:06 |
| Pendulum | AlanBell: yeah, I joined channel so I feel like I'm sorta figuring out what's happening | 16:07 |
| charlie-tca | You will have to let me know what happened. I got too many things going on at once again | 17:25 |
| AlanBell | the conversation is continuing upstream with the core developers from Cambridge who develop on the gnome code for Dasher | 17:28 |
| charlie-tca | Then there is hope! | 17:29 |
| AlanBell | yes, and hope for the wider collection of bugs, not just this one | 17:30 |
| AlanBell | the developers there actually appear to be fairly active | 17:30 |
| AlanBell | charlie-tca: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu-website/+bugs?field.tag=accessibility | 17:30 |
| charlie-tca | Wow | 17:31 |
| AlanBell | can you have a flick through that lot at some point and file bugs for any other stuff you encounter on the websites | 17:31 |
| charlie-tca | I will look them over and add any others I fine? | 17:31 |
| dutchie | that is fairly impressive | 17:31 |
| charlie-tca | s/fine/find | 17:31 |
| AlanBell | I went through the existing bugs and tagged stuff with accessibility if it looked like an issue (contrast, size etc) | 17:32 |
| charlie-tca | Oh, the right answer is yes | 17:32 |
| AlanBell | nice stuff about website bugs is fixing them is within my capability, I can code it, do merge requests then get cross if they are rejected :) | 17:33 |
| AlanBell | with applications written in C that are segfaulting I get stuck quickly! | 17:34 |
| charlie-tca | Great! I'll have a close look today. thank you | 17:35 |
| charlie-tca | I did hold off cussing them out for the new website design. | 17:35 |
| charlie-tca | Not sure I can word it effectively yet | 17:35 |
| Pendulum | maco: you and I really need to start doing that dasher patching we talked about doing at some point ;-) | 17:36 |
| AlanBell | totally agree, but the bugs need to be filed before we can get cross about them | 17:37 |
| Pendulum | yeah | 17:38 |
| * Pendulum goes off to get something that will pull her head off her neck ;-) | 17:39 | |
| Pendulum | catch y'all later! | 17:39 |
| AlanBell | charlie-tca: if you see any bugs in the list marked new please feel free to confirm them | 18:53 |
| charlie-tca | I will. I will go through each one to try and confirm as many as possible. | 18:54 |
| AlanBell | also have a look at http://ubuntu-news.org/ | 21:23 |
| AlanBell | http://www.ubuntu.com/ | 21:23 |
| AlanBell | http://manpages.ubuntu.com/ | 21:24 |
| AlanBell | http://loco.ubuntu.com/ | 21:24 |
| AlanBell | http://summit.ubuntu.com/ (although I fully expect the schedule to be a disaster, the new ical feeds are a good thing) | 21:25 |
| Pendulum | yeah | 21:30 |
| Pendulum | brb. upgrading :) | 21:30 |
| charlie-tca | At least the text shows up on those. On that new wiki template from yesterday, it didn't | 21:30 |
| charlie-tca | Is http://www.ubuntu.com/ using iframes? The text in the three boxes across the page does not increase with the rest | 21:34 |
| charlie-tca | or maybe it just starts really small? | 21:34 |
| AlanBell | works for me in firefox and chromium | 21:38 |
| AlanBell | and no, not iframes | 21:39 |
| charlie-tca | Whatever they used, the text stays small | 21:46 |
| charlie-tca | The rest work, except the map grows really big and wide. But, overall, the design works okay | 21:47 |
| charlie-tca | They took the attachments down that were in yesterdays message | 21:47 |
| AlanBell | oh, yes, there was a mail about that | 21:48 |
| AlanBell | "Hi, there has been a mis-understanding. I was under the impression that this guideline was finalized but I have just been told it is not ready for you to implement." | 21:49 |
| AlanBell | bit of an oops there! | 21:49 |
| charlie-tca | thank goodness. It doesn't really seem usable to me. | 21:50 |
| charlie-tca | Hoping it was an old draft, and not really the new design | 21:50 |
| AlanBell | well I am glad I got my rant in at that point, maybe it will come back better | 22:05 |
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