[01:44] If that link in the emails is real for a new wiki design, it really falls flat on accessibility for the visually impaired. If this an example of Canonical helping us, we better run fast! [01:45] AlanBell: neat rant [01:45] charlie-tca: maybe e-mail back and then start filing bugs? [01:45] clearly you're fighting with a designer "I don't like fluid layouts" he says [01:46] What about text that is visible. Does he hate that too? [01:46] I could not read more than half a page a day with that layout [01:46] It makes my eyes burn [01:46] and the text does not grow nicely at all. It distorts instead [01:47] Do we really want an accessibility wiki that visually impaired uses will find really hard to read? [01:48] nope [05:01] Pendulum: I wonder if we should mail Jane about it. [06:55] Pendulum: filing bugs is the place to start, as per sabdfl's response to your question [06:58] I have filed bug 654643 [06:58] Launchpad bug 654643 in ubuntu-website "low contrast text bad for low vision users (affects: 1) (heat: 6)" [Undecided,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/654643 [06:59] and bug 654625 [06:59] Launchpad bug 654625 in ubuntu-website "Width is not fluid (affects: 1) (heat: 6)" [Undecided,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/654625 [07:00] maybe if someone could go through https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu-website/+bugs and tag things with accessability as appropriate that would be useful [07:00] and file any new bugs you think of [07:04] then we can write the code and do the merge requests [07:05] which will either be accepted, which is great, or not, which means we escallate the issue [07:09] hmm, I can't tag things on launchpad at the moment [07:10] nigelb: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu-website/+bug/654643 trying to add an accessibility tag to this bug [07:10] Launchpad bug 654643 in ubuntu-website "low contrast text bad for low vision users (affects: 1) (heat: 6)" [Undecided,In progress] [07:48] AlanBell: I just added the tag [07:50] AlanBell: I don't have any more rights on that project than you do, so you sohuld be able to do it (is javascript enabled?) [07:54] how odd, doesn't work for me in firefox or chromium [07:55] on bugs.edge.launchpad.net or bugs.launchpad.net [07:55] that's strange. [07:55] are you clickin on the yellow button and waiting? [07:56] click yellow button, turns instantly to an input field with light-wiki in it [07:56] I add ", Accessibility" to the end of the field [07:57] AlanBell: then click the tick mark [07:57] click the green tick, both ticks vanish, it stays an input field [07:57] doesn't go back to the blue links [07:57] AlanBell: hrm, strange [07:57] I tagged it like 4 times [07:57] thansk to my very poor spelling [07:58] as evidenced ^^ [07:58] :p [07:58] :) [07:59] I can tag other bugs [07:59] LOL [08:00] I just tagged bug 537408 [08:00] Launchpad bug 537408 in ubuntu-community "Ubuntu Community Support is patchy and has no recommended guidelines (affects: 1) (heat: 16)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/537408 [08:00] that one's going to be fun [08:00] ah, got it working now [08:01] strangely not, I wonder why it hasn't caught the eye of *cough* tabloids *cough* [08:01] tags are space separated not comma separated [08:01] AlanBell: aha, you didn'te tell me you used comma [08:01] 07:53 < AlanBell> I add ", Accessibility" to the end of the field [08:01] did too! [08:02] Right, I should learn to read then. [08:02] I missed that bit. [08:06] doesn't like capitals in tags either [08:40] ok, been through all the bugs [08:40] https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu-website/+bugs?field.tag=accessibility [08:40] please file new ones [12:23] AlanBell: charlie is our official bug person [12:25] yup [12:26] and Mark Shuttleworth told us to file bugs, so it is only fair that we do so :) [12:26] lots of bugs [12:28] yes, load 'em up [12:30] should I file some bugs about the fact that there's no in-built accessibility features on the main site (no way to change contrast, etc.) and no page explaining what their accessibility options for the website are? [12:31] AlanBell: has anyone responded to your e-mail? [12:33] no [12:33] AlanBell: I assume that was to my 2nd question? [12:34] of course :) [12:34] yes is the answer to your first question [12:34] https://lists.canonical.com/archives/ubuntu-website/2010-October/thread.html [12:35] it isn't a very active list [12:35] the real question is do I file the bug as the website not complying to W3C Accessibility standards, or do I file bugs as multiple issues [12:35] do both [12:36] one referencing the standard, then file a separate bug for each thing that could be fixed as a unit of work [12:38] of course, now this means I really need to read all the details of the standard ;-) [12:40] and get Flash to help point out missing bits [12:41] without charging me a consultant's fee :P [12:42] (since accessible webdesign and evaluations are what she does as her job) [12:51] and a career direction that would be interesting for you to explore :) [12:52] well, I'd need to learn design first :P [12:52] and I'm not sure it actually pays that well. I think she mostly does it because it's flexible (Flash also has EDS) [13:16] Pendulum¦ have you seen » http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1lqfQi7146U ? [13:16] I don't think I'm going to click that link... [13:16] hehe ;p [13:31] just not to seem out of context : [13:31] * Pendulum is still avoiding the cake song :) [13:31] so /me tried to trick her :( [13:33] vish: I'm well aware you hang out in -community-team so it was hard to not notice the timing ;) [13:33] Pendulum¦ yea, bad move on my part, i should have waited a day :( [13:42] nigelb: how do I find out who should review this? https://code.launchpad.net/~alanbell/dasher/bugfix-lp-579181/+merge/37528 [15:33] the dasher conversation is going in interesting directions [15:34] the dasher setup in launchpad is a bit of a mess, it imports from an obsolete SVN gnome repository, but Ubuntu gets packages from Debian [15:34] nobody is looking after the bugs reported, nobody is merging stuff [15:35] so we are going to discuss the adopt an upstream stuff with jcastro in -motu shortly [16:04] AlanBell: has discoussion started yet? [16:06] oh yes [16:06] gnome bug 632226 [16:06] Gnome bug 632226 in core "Dasher is hard to use to operate IRC clients such as irssi" [Normal,Unconfirmed] http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=632226 [16:07] AlanBell: yeah, I joined channel so I feel like I'm sorta figuring out what's happening [17:25] You will have to let me know what happened. I got too many things going on at once again [17:28] the conversation is continuing upstream with the core developers from Cambridge who develop on the gnome code for Dasher [17:29] Then there is hope! [17:30] yes, and hope for the wider collection of bugs, not just this one [17:30] the developers there actually appear to be fairly active [17:30] charlie-tca: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu-website/+bugs?field.tag=accessibility [17:31] Wow [17:31] can you have a flick through that lot at some point and file bugs for any other stuff you encounter on the websites [17:31] I will look them over and add any others I fine? [17:31] that is fairly impressive [17:31] s/fine/find [17:32] I went through the existing bugs and tagged stuff with accessibility if it looked like an issue (contrast, size etc) [17:32] Oh, the right answer is yes [17:33] nice stuff about website bugs is fixing them is within my capability, I can code it, do merge requests then get cross if they are rejected :) [17:34] with applications written in C that are segfaulting I get stuck quickly! [17:35] Great! I'll have a close look today. thank you [17:35] I did hold off cussing them out for the new website design. [17:35] Not sure I can word it effectively yet [17:36] maco: you and I really need to start doing that dasher patching we talked about doing at some point ;-) [17:37] totally agree, but the bugs need to be filed before we can get cross about them [17:38] yeah [17:39] * Pendulum goes off to get something that will pull her head off her neck ;-) [17:39] catch y'all later! [18:53] charlie-tca: if you see any bugs in the list marked new please feel free to confirm them [18:54] I will. I will go through each one to try and confirm as many as possible. [21:23] also have a look at http://ubuntu-news.org/ [21:23] http://www.ubuntu.com/ [21:24] http://manpages.ubuntu.com/ [21:24] http://loco.ubuntu.com/ [21:25] http://summit.ubuntu.com/ (although I fully expect the schedule to be a disaster, the new ical feeds are a good thing) [21:30] yeah [21:30] brb. upgrading :) [21:30] At least the text shows up on those. On that new wiki template from yesterday, it didn't [21:34] Is http://www.ubuntu.com/ using iframes? The text in the three boxes across the page does not increase with the rest [21:34] or maybe it just starts really small? [21:38] works for me in firefox and chromium [21:39] and no, not iframes [21:46] Whatever they used, the text stays small [21:47] The rest work, except the map grows really big and wide. But, overall, the design works okay [21:47] They took the attachments down that were in yesterdays message [21:48] oh, yes, there was a mail about that [21:49] "Hi, there has been a mis-understanding. I was under the impression that this guideline was finalized but I have just been told it is not ready for you to implement." [21:49] bit of an oops there! [21:50] thank goodness. It doesn't really seem usable to me. [21:50] Hoping it was an old draft, and not really the new design [22:05] well I am glad I got my rant in at that point, maybe it will come back better