[00:15] <TheMuso> Natty is open.
[00:16] <micahg> \o/
[01:08] <highvoltage> TheMuso: whohoo!
[04:21] <coolbhavi> hello...isnt PPA for natty activated yet?
[04:23] <persia> Quite possibly not, but ask #launchpad: they host PPAs (and we don't even all use them).
[04:23] <persia> You can set up a pbuilder or sbuild today though.
[04:23] <coolbhavi> sure thanks persia
[05:06] <nigelb> hyperair: HAPPY BIRTHDAY!
[05:06] <hyperair> thanks =)
[05:06] <hyperair> how did you know?
[05:06] <nigelb> The Force :p
[05:07] <nigelb> Facebook, you added me remember? ;)
[05:07] <hyperair> ahahahahaha
[05:07] <hyperair> right
[05:07] <hyperair> now i remember
[05:07]  * hyperair got flooded with facebook mails this morning
[05:08]  * nigelb adds to the flood
[05:09]  * hyperair gets flattened by facebook mails
[05:11] <nigelb> hahaha
[06:52] <micahg> lucidfox: ping
[07:26] <lucidfox> micahg, pong
[07:26] <micahg> lucidfox: hi, did you want to merge chmsee?  I noticed you were the last uploader
[07:32] <lucidfox> Eh... to be honest, I'm done with it. If you want to upload, feel free to proceed
[07:33] <micahg> lucidfox: k, thanks
[07:33] <persia> And this is why we don't have maintainers in Ubuntu : makes it easier to just fix stuff with certain confidence that someone else on the team will pick it up later if you're done with it.
[07:34] <micahg> persia: we're still supposed to ask, right?
[07:34] <persia> Depends.
[07:34] <bilalakhtar> micahg: I have uploaded chmsee!
[07:34] <bilalakhtar> micahg: Please don't!
[07:34] <persia> If you've a burning need to do something, because it's blocking your work, same rules apply for merges and non-merge uploads.
[07:34] <micahg> bilalakhtar: ?
[07:35] <bilalakhtar> micahg: no, wait, I haven't uploaded it yet
[07:35] <bilalakhtar> micahg: Its lying in my directory
[07:35] <persia> Once we hit DIF, anything not done is essentially up for grabs.
[07:35] <micahg> bilalakhtar: ah, you grabbed it...that's one of the few things I can upload at the moment :(
[07:35] <persia> We tend to follow TIL rules between archive-open and DIF just because most folk who are TIL are willing to do the merges.
[07:36] <bilalakhtar> micahg: Do you want to do it? I have done the merge, but will do a test-build, run and upload
[07:36] <micahg> bilalakhtar: nah, go ahead
[07:36] <persia> bilalakhtar, As much as I harp on Ubuntu-does-not-have-maintainers-!!!! It's considered polite to ask the last uploader about it between archive-open and DIF: lots of times people have other out-of-archive stuff they are doing, and quick merges interfere with their work.
[07:36] <persia> Once we reach DIF, all bets are off.
[07:37] <bilalakhtar> ohk
[07:37]  * micahg would also think MOTU should focus on unseeded unless it's a pet package
[07:38] <persia> Indeed, but the LP stuff to block MOTU uploading to packagesets isn't done yet, sadly.
[07:39] <micahg> persia: I don't think they should be blocked necessarily, just focus on the unseeded
[07:39] <persia> And the UI for MOTU to *know* what isn't in a packageset is still fuzzy.
[07:39] <micahg> yeah, that's the bigger issue :)(
[07:39] <persia> micahg, Intent is to block it: packages that have interested folks aren't MOTU responsibility.  MOTU who happen to be interested should join the relevant devteam.
[07:40] <micahg> persia: ah, ok, so me going for MOTU will then be in addition to mozilla stuff :)
[07:40] <persia> Ideally, MOTU grants no upload rights, but that takes a lot more active developers :)
[07:40] <persia> micahg, Right.  MOTU is an additional grant, and it's supposed to be about dedication to archive quality.
[07:41] <persia> And for work concentrated in areas that don't have any group caring for them.
[07:41] <bilalakhtar> I am interested in desktop packages, some of which are in universe. However, before touching a desktop package, I ask in #ubuntu-desktop
[07:43] <persia> When you say "desktop package", how are you defining that?
[07:45] <micahg> is the current preference to file merge bugs or not to file merge bugs?
[07:46] <persia> micahg, I'm still a fan of filing merge bugs, just as a means to declare who is merging it.
[07:46] <Rhonda> micahg: It's to check wether the difference still makes sense and rather to help Debian release, otherwise natty won't get any new packages.
[07:47] <persia> That said, LP bugs are now so cluttered, I don't think most folk even look at bugs for a package when merging (sadly), making this less useful.
[07:47] <persia> (plus what Rhonda said)
[07:48] <micahg> Rhonda: how do merge bugs help to see if the diff makes sense or help Debian?
[07:49] <persia> micahg, The point being that it's probably better to focus on squeeze release than worry about merges.
[07:49] <micahg> persia: ah, right, ok
[07:49] <persia> The chances that any merge done now will not have to be redone when squeeze comes out and everyone uploads is tiny.
[07:49] <persia> So the faster we get squeeze released, the sooner it makes sense to do any merges.
[07:49] <Rhonda> micahg: The other way round. If the diff doesn't make sense there is no need for a merge bug, rather sync request. :)
[07:49] <micahg> hmm, makes sense, but I'm not sure how much I can do to help squeeze release, alas, I'll give it another whirl
[07:50] <persia> A better focus is probably UEHS stuff, for folks who don't want to help Debian.
[07:50] <micahg> UEHS?
[07:50] <micahg> persia: should I unmark the merges I marked for myself or just claim them and do them when the new version come out?
[07:51] <persia> micahg, Your choice :)
[07:51] <persia> !uehs
[07:51] <persia> ($#"W~)("#
[07:51] <persia> http://qa.ubuntuwire.com/uehs/
[07:51] <Rhonda> I'd like to throw in this URL which gives a list of bugs that are in need of getting addressed: http://udd.debian.org/bugs.cgi?release=squeeze&patch=ign&pending=ign&security=ign&notmain=ign&notsqueeze=ign&merged=ign&done=ign&fnewerval=7&rc=1
[07:52] <persia> ubottu, uehs is <reply> the Ubuntu External Health System is hosted at http://qa.ubuntuwire.com/uehs and lists many upstream projects with which Ubuntu is not currently in sync.
[07:52] <micahg> persia: I didn't know about that one, thanks
[07:53] <micahg> persia: I want to help squeeze release, I guess I need to dig deeper in the RC list to see if something is fixed upstream or something I can do
[07:57] <dholbach> good morning! :)
[07:58] <ajmitch> hi
[07:58] <dholbach> hey ajmitch
[07:58] <ajmitch> yay for friday evening
[07:58]  * ajmitch can sleep now
[07:59] <nigelb> dang, timezones are unfair
[07:59] <nigelb> another 10 hours at least before I can sleep
[07:59] <ajmitch> well it's only 8pm here, but I just walked home after a long day :)
[07:59] <nigelb> aha
[08:01]  * micahg is going to sleep now, timezeones are interesting
[08:03] <persia> nigelb, So, um, consider what time ajmitch gets up.
[08:03] <nigelb> persia: Considering what time I got up today, makes not much of difference :/
[08:04]  * micahg got up 19 hrs ago, definitely time to go to sleep
[08:04]  * persia is amused when 7:30 of timezone difference makes little effective difference in diurnal cycles
[08:05]  * ajmitch isn't really going to sleep yet :)
[08:11] <bilalakhtar> persia: What's the time at your place?
[08:11] <persia> bilalakhtar, UTC+9 today
[08:12] <bilalakhtar> oh
[10:22] <ari-tczew> when autosync is starting?
[10:23] <persia> A few minutes ago.
[10:33] <ari-tczew> can I see which packages are autosyncing right now? is it in  Latest uploads  ?
[10:33] <persia> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/natty/+queue?queue_state=3 lets you see what just got processed.
[10:34] <ari-tczew> thanks persia
[10:55] <ari-tczew> persia: hmm, syncs are not coming :/
[10:56] <persia> Some will, but not so many, because of the squeeze freeze.
[10:57] <ari-tczew> persia: I see that 1700+ packages should be synced.
[10:57] <ari-tczew> (autosynced)
[10:58] <persia> Are you working on something that is blocked on one of them/
[10:58] <persia> s:/:?:
[11:10] <ari-tczew> persia: I would wait to moment, when all packages are synced. then I can test build packages on fresh build-depends
[11:11] <persia> Most build-depends ought be done: that's the point of the toolchain freeze.
[11:11] <ari-tczew> aha
[11:12] <persia> It is believed that anything not already uploaded isn't supposed to affect how stuff builds significantl.
[11:12] <persia> This may not be a correct assumption, but it's safe for you to also assume it.
[11:27] <ari-tczew> persia: ok, now packages are going to be uploaded by autosync.
[11:28] <persia> Yep.
[11:28] <ari-tczew> builders will be clogged
[11:29] <persia> Yep
[11:54] <gusnan> pdebuilding my GTK program I get the following: http://paste.ubuntu.com/513757/ during build - does someone know anything about this? It doesn't help to depend on libgdk-pixbuf2.0-dev oddly enough...
[13:02] <geser> gusnan: try adding -I/usr/include/gdk-pixbuf-2.0 to the CFLAGS
[13:10] <gusnan> ah, that seems to work... Thanks geser!
[13:39] <jariq> When i run "dh_make -s" it generates rules file with just three lines (#!/usr/bin/make -f \ %: \ dh $@).. I am not sure if this can be used for my applicaiton :) How can i get the "old style behaviour" with normal rules file ?
[13:41] <tumbleweed> jariq: there's an easy way to find out if the minimal dh rules will work :)
[13:41] <tumbleweed> jariq: also (#ubuntu-packaging)
[13:41] <jariq> tumbleweed: minimal dh rules does not work for me.. how can I generate longer version ?
[13:43] <tumbleweed> jariq: don't know of an easier way than writing them out by hand. dh_make doesn't ship them any more.
[13:43] <tumbleweed> jariq: why don't they work?
[13:45] <jariq> tumbleweed: i am installing into non standard location
[13:46] <jariq> tumbleweed: your answer "dh_make doesn't ship them any more" is enough for me.. thank you very much
[13:46] <tumbleweed> jariq: you know about dh overrides, right?
[13:46] <tumbleweed> so much for that...
[14:14] <ari-tczew> huh, builder is blocked till 2 days, at the moment
[14:19] <persia> heh, lots of packages, and powerpc is unfortunately not very fast right now.
[14:19] <persia> Be nice to put new powerpc hardware in the DC, but that kinda requires someone to make some and sell it at reasonable prices.
[14:24] <AlanBell> how do I find out who should review this? https://code.launchpad.net/~alanbell/dasher/bugfix-lp-579181/+merge/37528
[14:24] <AlanBell> so I reported a bug, took a branch, made the fix, done a merge request . . . now what? How do I make it happen?
[14:26] <vish> AlanBell¦ set the sponsor team as the reviewer
[14:26] <vish> dasher is in Ubuntu right?
[14:26]  * vish checks..
[14:27] <AlanBell> yes, it is in ubuntu
[14:27] <AlanBell> ok, done that I think
[14:28] <AlanBell> !info dasher
[14:28] <vish> AlanBell¦ hmm, wait, i think you might have fixed the wrong branch..  thats a vcs import branch
[14:28] <AlanBell> err ok, not sure what that means
[14:29] <vish> AlanBell¦ https://code.launchpad.net/~vcs-imports/dasher/trunk , thats automatically imported
[14:29] <vish> AlanBell¦ if you want to fix only in Ubuntu, grab the Ubuntu branch
[14:30] <AlanBell> found that from here https://launchpad.net/dasher
[14:30]  * persia notes that bzr diff may produce a patch suitable for application into the Ubuntu branch
[14:31] <AlanBell> sorry, I am going round in circles here, where is the ubuntu branch?
[14:32] <persia> Usually at lp:ubuntu/${package}
[14:32] <vish> AlanBell¦ https://code.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/dasher
[14:32]  * persia thinks, but doesn't use bzr for packaging, so may be mistaken
[14:32] <vish> AlanBell¦ so its for lp:ubuntu/dasher , that the sponsors can upload
[14:33] <vish> also, i think you'd need to file a bug too..
[14:33] <persia> No, it shouldn't need a bug.
[14:33] <AlanBell> hmm, ok, most of the links on that page take me back to the upstream dasher
[14:33] <AlanBell> there is a bug
[14:33] <persia> A merge proposal should show up in the sponsoring report.
[14:34] <persia> If there's a bug, just link the branch to the bug and subscribe ubuntu-sponsors.
[14:34] <AlanBell> bug 579181
[14:34] <persia> You'll still need to base the branch on the Ubuntu tree, but that'S separate.
[14:34] <vish> persia¦ i meant a bug for mentioning what we are changing and for the changelog..
[14:35] <persia> vish, No point.  Best to use the bug that is the problem.
[14:35] <persia> Adding new bugs just for sponsoring is a waste of bug IDs.
[14:35] <vish> nah, i dint mean new bugs :)
[14:35] <persia> And we only have a limited number of those.
[14:35] <persia> OK. :)
[14:36] <AlanBell> subscribe sponsors to the bug, or the branch?
[14:37] <vish> AlanBell¦ branch
[14:37] <vish> AlanBell¦ if you have made the changes for lp:ubuntu/dasher , they can merge/upload
[14:37] <vish>  lp:dasher they cant..
[14:38] <AlanBell> hmm, odd
[14:38] <vish> think of lp:dasher as the upstream branch, its just a mirror now of the svn from gnome
[14:39] <vish> sponsors can upload upload to Ubuntu branches
[14:39] <vish> upload only* to
[14:40] <persia> Well, sponsors can upload whatever they want to Ubuntu, whether it has any relation to an Ubuntu branch or not.
[14:40] <persia> But sponsors can only process merge proposals against Ubuntu branches.
[14:40] <persia> and upstream patches tend to get sent upstream rather than sponsored.
[14:40] <AlanBell> ok, so I need to bzr branch lp:ubuntu/dasher, redo my changes, commit, push and do a new merge request?
[14:41] <vish>  yup
[14:41] <vish> AlanBell¦ would sending the patch upstream not be helpful?
[14:41] <AlanBell> what have I just done then?
[14:42] <vish> AlanBell¦ the branch will fix the bug in Ubuntu alone, [if sponsored]
[14:42] <AlanBell> isn't the issue that I *did* send it upstream?
[14:43] <vish> the upstream code you pulled is actually mirrored from  http://svn.gnome.org/svn/dasher/trunk/
[14:44] <persia> AlanBell, You based the patch on upstream code (good), but didn't send it to actual upstream (maybe needed, maybe not).  You're now working to reapplyy the patch (bzr diff is good to extract it) to the Ubuntu branch with the intent to request someone to upload it to Ubuntu.
[14:44] <vish> so i'm *guessing* they file their bugs in gnome bugzilla, not sure though
[14:44] <AlanBell> ok, so where does that pull from?
[14:45] <AlanBell> http://svn.gnome.org/ says GNOME has changed to using Git for version control. Current GNOME sources can be found on git.gnome.org. All content on this site is obsolete
[14:46] <vish> from " https://code.launchpad.net/~vcs-imports/dasher/trunk   "This branch is an import of the Subversion  branch from http://svn.gnome.org/svn/dasher/trunk. "
[14:47] <vish> last sync was 30mins ago
[14:47] <vish> import rather
[14:47] <AlanBell> indeed, so why is it pulling from a site that claims to be obsolete
[14:48] <vish> right,  and the Ubuntu package is also a sync from debian.. 0.o
[14:48] <vish> auto-sync
[14:52] <AlanBell> http://www.inference.phy.cam.ac.uk/dasher/Develop.html
[14:52] <AlanBell> so looks like the real upstream is indeed on gnome
[14:53] <AlanBell> but should be git clone git://git.gnome.org/dasher
[14:53] <vish> if the svn is obsolete then https://code.launchpad.net/~vcs-imports/dasher/trunk might be a waste ?  why does that keep trying there?  maybe we should close/stop that?
[14:53] <vish> persia¦ ^
[14:53] <AlanBell> they might be syncing git to svn and launchpad is pulling from that
[14:54] <vish> heh! musical chairs! ;p
[14:54] <AlanBell> but debian will get releases from gnome, ubuntu gets packages from debian, I can't see where that lp:dasher is actually used
[14:55] <AlanBell> right now it is just causing multi-cycle delays in getting fixes done
[14:56] <persia> vish, better to just ask in #launchpad to get it updated
[14:57] <vish> yea..
[15:01] <vish> AlanBell¦ phew! » https://bugzilla.gnome.org/browse.cgi?product=dasher
[15:02] <vish> the bugs seem to go there, and sending the patch there would probably nice as well, but seeing that the package has not been updated since 04/2009  not sure where the log is, debian or bugzilla
[15:03] <persia> log?
[15:03] <persia> lag?
[15:03] <persia> quite possibly related to the squeeze freeze.
[15:04] <vish> err, yeah, lag
[15:06] <AlanBell> ok, so I need to register and file a bug in gnome or something?
[15:09] <ScottK> If it's upstream Gnome, it won't be the squeeze freeze that's the cause of delay I wouldn't think.
[15:09] <vish> AlanBell¦ yup, file a bug in gnome and send the patch there,  also trying to find out why the package was not updated for a while might be the real clue ;), the latest version /might/ have the problem fixed..
[15:12] <AlanBell> doubt it, given what the issue is
[15:12] <AlanBell> when using IRC to control dasher it is very hard to type /window 3<return>
[15:13] <vish> AlanBell¦ there is dasher 4_11 in git
[15:13] <AlanBell> because digit followed directly by return isn't in the training data
[15:13] <vish> http://git.gnome.org/browse/dasher/tag/?id=DASHER_4_11_0
[15:15] <vish> hrm! but seems nothing new in it, just a welcome message :D
[15:16] <AlanBell> http://git.gnome.org/browse/dasher/log/ wow, lots of stuff happening
[15:16] <vish> nope, someone is working on it
[15:17] <vish> heh , yeah, was just looking at the same link
[15:18] <AlanBell> ok, so the current ubuntu situation is a bit sucky
[15:18] <AlanBell> bugs get reported, they are not being passed upstream, it was *hard* to discover where the upstream actually was
[15:19] <bilalakhtar> A package is facing the DSO link failure problem and I am trying to fix it. The package uses cmake. Any idea how do I get it to use the -lX11 flag when it calls gcc ?
[15:20] <AlanBell> and I am fairly sure when I fixed that bug in the first place I used ground control to fix the bug number and it downloaded the vcs branch for me, totally inappropriately
[15:20] <bilalakhtar> got it
[15:22] <vish> AlanBell¦ yeah, just noticed that none of those bugs got triaged
[15:22] <vish> AlanBell¦ adopt upstream? < enter jcastro »
[15:23] <jcastro> I can help!
[15:23] <jcastro> give me a few minutes to finish this call
[15:24] <vish> j-castro¦  https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/dasher seems to be fairly important for accessibility, but has got no attention
[15:25] <bilalakhtar> | ?
[15:25] <bilalakhtar> Why the pipe character, vish?
[15:26] <vish> bilalakhtar¦ just so that people ask about it! :)
[15:26] <AlanBell> vish: ¦ is not | or : but somewhere inbetween
[15:27] <vish> AlanBell¦ yup, i came across it while we were looking for the Rs sign ;)
[15:27] <AlanBell> ah, you mean ₹
[15:28] <bilalakhtar> vish: Ubuntu supports the rupee symbol
[15:28] <vish> AlanBell¦ yup, the other day, so you are to be blamed! ;p
[15:28] <AlanBell> #blamealan
[15:37] <jcastro> vish: the bug tracker seems set correctly in launchpad to me?
[15:40] <AlanBell> https://bugs.launchpad.net/dasher says that bugs are tracked in gnome, and also ubuntu
[15:42] <AlanBell> so do the dasher packages come from debian, or from gnome?
[15:43] <jcastro> the code comes from gnome, the packages from debian most likely
[15:46] <AlanBell> so where do I file a bug, and where do I fix it, and how should I have found this out for myself?
[15:48] <tumbleweed> AlanBell: you file a bug in Ubuntu if it's something we want to track in ubuntu (i.e. important or visible). You fix it in gnome. If we can't wait for the fix from gnome, we fix it with a patch in Ubuntu (or better, Debian) but still pass the patch to gnome
[15:49] <AlanBell> right, OK, so I did file a bug in Ubuntu, and then got in a mess trying to fix it in ubuntu against the pseudo upstream branch at lp:dasher
[15:50] <tumbleweed> AlanBell: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Bugs/HowToFix covers some of this
[15:50] <AlanBell> now I have the git tree from Gnome and I am fixing it there
[15:50] <vish> jcastro¦ yea, but AlanBell seems fairly interested in the package, so i thought you could sweet talk him into adoption it ;)
[15:50] <vish> adopting*
[15:50] <jcastro> indeed
[15:55] <jcastro> AlanBell: I would fix it in gnome, and then ping the DD and a MOTU about carrying it back down
[16:00] <AlanBell> yay, I have a git patch
[16:00] <persia> yay!
[16:04] <jcastro> AlanBell: please make a mental note of how brutal it will be getting the fix back down, I am always interested in that kind of data
[16:06] <AlanBell> gnome bug 632226
[16:07] <jcastro> \o/
[16:08] <AlanBell> bug filed in gnome, ubuntu bug attached to gnome bug, patch attached to gnome bug
[16:16] <Pendulum> AlanBell: I think I owe you a drink next time I see you :)
[16:27] <vish> Pendulum¦ hey! AlanBell owes me that drink! i literally handheld him through it! ;p
[16:36] <Pendulum> vish: or I owe you both drinks :P
[16:40] <vish> \o/
[18:46] <micahg> SpamapS: you might want to wait for me to merge 1.6.3 before you request the backport
[18:47] <micahg> SpamapS: actually, since you TIL, were you planning on merging mongodb?
[18:59] <SpamapS> micahg: oo that would be sweet actually. :)
[18:59] <micahg> SpamapS: which one?
[18:59] <SpamapS> micahg: 1.6 in backports
[19:00] <micahg> SpamapS: k, do you want me to merge it, or do you want to?
[19:00] <SpamapS> micahg: I don't mind merging it at all. I'm a little bit perplexed at what they're planning for 1.7 though.. mongodb is planning to embed pcre and boost in their distribution.
[19:00] <SpamapS> micahg: and they're going to be statically linking by default.
[19:01] <SpamapS> "rapidly changing xulrunner and boost versions cause too many problems for our users"
[19:01] <SpamapS> They really don't understand that they are cutting off their nose to spite their face.
[19:01] <micahg> SpamapS: k, well, they can switch to webkit :-/
[19:02] <ScottK> Boost and stable ABI are oxymorons.
[19:06] <SpamapS> micahg: does webkit have a more stable js library?
[19:07] <micahg> SpamapS: er, I don't know for sure, but I think they do
[19:10] <micahg> chrisccoulson: can you speak to the stability of the webkit JS API?
[19:19] <chrisccoulson> micahg - i'm not sure about that
[19:22] <SpamapS> micahg: Oh, and if I wasn't clear.. yes I will do the mongodb merge
[19:23] <micahg> SpamapS: feel free to ping me when you're ready for sponsorship
[19:23] <SpamapS> micahg: will do, thanks. :)
[23:13] <ari-tczew> bdrung: hey, which command can I use for fakesync?
[23:29] <SpamapS> micahg: should I bother to subscribe ubuntu-sporsor for the mongodb merge, or do you just want to take it? bug #661513
[23:30] <micahg> SpamapS: nah, that's ok, just subscribe me and I'll upload Sat night
[23:31] <SpamapS> seems like the 'subscribe someone else' link on launchpad has gotten slower lately :(
[23:31] <SpamapS> micahg: thanks!
[23:31] <micahg> nm, I'm already subscribed :)
[23:32] <micahg> oh, well, all good
[23:32] <micahg> SpamapS: np
[23:44] <micahg> SpamapS: only comment on your debdiff is you fix up the dep3 patch headers for the ubuntu_hacks workaround
[23:45]  * micahg will be back in 25 hours
[23:46] <SpamapS> micahg: oh, those are the result of the 3.0 source format.. I always forget to fix those. ;)
[23:47] <ScottK> SpamapS: Here's a hint - Read your debdiff before you ask for sponsorship.  Then this kind of stuff leaps out at you.
[23:53] <SpamapS> I did read it. I don't ever notice those, because they're just boilerplate stuff. The 3.0 format does make it kind of weird. The Debian maintainer didn't remove their boilerplate stuff either. ;)
[23:54] <SpamapS> in fact.. I'm not really even sure how to edit the generated patches