[00:12] <penguin42> hggdh: Yeuch, Lucid's library said 2.8
[00:15] <hggdh> heh
[00:22]  * penguin42 is writing a LONG comment
[00:27] <penguin42> hggdh: Have a read of my comment - I think that classifies as triaged!
[01:01] <hggdh> getting there, penguin42
[01:02] <hggdh> penguin42: aye, agree
[01:03] <penguin42> hggdh: What I'm wondering though is that if that lib was updated in lucid-updates won't everything that used it also need updating in lucid-updates?
[01:03] <hggdh> penguin42: I was trying right not to visualise all impacts :-)
[01:04] <hggdh> but I think all dependents shuld be rebuilt, even more since this is a weak reference
[01:06] <hggdh> of course, this would only affect those that do call on it...
[01:06] <hggdh> penguin42: ugh! have you seen the list of dependents?
[01:07] <penguin42> no?
[01:07] <hggdh> try apt-cache rdepends libwxgtk2.8-0
[01:07] <penguin42> hggdh: Presumably it's only programs that use the symbols that were added between 2.8 and 2.8.x that actually break
[01:08] <hggdh> penguin42: I agree (and only the subset of those that *do* reference the symbol). But which ones?
[01:08] <hggdh> meaning who are they?
[01:09] <nigelb> hggdh: ping
[01:09] <hggdh> nigelb: contextless pong ;-)
[01:09] <nigelb> hggdh: would you still be interested in that portugese class for loco day?
[01:10] <penguin42> hggdh: http://www.google.co.uk/search?sourceid=chrome&client=ubuntu&channel=cs&ie=UTF-8&q=WXU_2.8+site:bugs.launchpad.net
[01:10] <hggdh> penguin42: yes
[01:11] <hggdh> nigelb: when would it be?
[01:11] <penguin42> hggdh: It looks like bug 610975 might be the master?
[01:11] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 610975 in pgadmin3 (Debian) (and 21 other projects) "relocation error with latest wxwidgets2.8 (affects: 80) (dups: 12) (heat: 324)" [Unknown,Unknown] https://launchpad.net/bugs/610975
[01:12] <nigelb> hggdh: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/loco-contacts/2010-October/004992.html
[01:13] <nigelb> hggdh: Nov 5
[01:13] <hggdh> penguin42: I agree it is the master
[01:14] <hggdh> nigelb: nov 5 I will be busy (my wife is returning from a trip), sorry
[01:14] <nigelb> hggdh: np :)
[01:14] <nigelb> I was just rounding up the usual suspects
[01:14] <nigelb> :D
[01:14]  * hggdh has been wifeless for a while, will need some days to return to normal
[01:15] <nigelb> the house will start looking less of a wreck :p
[01:15] <hggdh> well, yes, there is that also...
[01:16] <hggdh> I was wondering if I just should close & lock the door to my office, but this will only delay the inevitable
[01:16] <hggdh> so I guess I *will* organise & clean the office. Tomorrow.
[01:27] <xelister> hmm... text subs stoped working in mplayer in maveric?
[01:56] <RedSingularity> There are A LOT of old bugs (over a year) that are untouched.  Should i bother with these?
[01:56] <RedSingularity> To clear them up i mean
[02:00] <micahg> RedSingularity: you're welcome to triage them
[02:00] <RedSingularity> micahg will do then :)
[02:00] <micahg> RedSingularity: they should be treated the same as any other bug
[02:01] <RedSingularity> micahg: ok
[02:39] <RedSingularity> Can someone mark the following bugs as "Low"?  bug 660851 - bug 356304 - bug 345025
[02:39] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 660851 in update-manager (Ubuntu) "Update manager very slow on 10.10 (affects: 1) (heat: 8)" [Undecided,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/660851
[02:39] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 356304 in update-manager "update-manager icons are pixelated (heat: 4)" [Undecided,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/356304
[02:39] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 345025 in update-manager ""Changes" text can be out-of-sync with selected update (affects: 1) (heat: 8)" [Undecided,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/345025
[02:43] <micahg> RedSingularity: why did you try to reproduce bug 356304?
[02:43] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 356304 in update-manager "update-manager icons are pixelated (heat: 4)" [Undecided,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/356304
[02:43] <micahg> *didn't
[02:44] <micahg> RedSingularity: same for the last bug in the list
[02:44] <RedSingularity> micahg:  that report is over a year old, I am not sure what ubuntu he is working with.
[02:45] <micahg> RedSingularity: irrelevant, you can test if it's still an issue
[02:45] <RedSingularity> micahg: with my 10.04 install?
[02:46] <micahg> RedSingularity: sure, or a maverick live CD
[02:46] <micahg> bug was from before Jaunty, probably was fixed, but you can check
[02:46] <RedSingularity> micahg: ok i will give it a try
[02:47] <micahg> RedSingularity: also, that's not a bug in Ubuntu, we can't do anything with it
[02:47] <micahg> RedSingularity: the last 2 aren't in Ubuntu, only upstream update-manager and you should only triage those with permission from mvo
[02:48] <RedSingularity> micahg: ??  Isnt update manager part of Ubuntu?
[02:48] <micahg> RedSingularity: yes, but there is the project and the package in Ubuntu, we triage bugs in teh package in Ubuntu, not the upstream project
[02:49] <RedSingularity> micahg: ohhh
[02:49] <RedSingularity> ok
[02:49] <micahg> RedSingularity: how did you find them anyway?
[02:50] <RedSingularity> micahg:  Update-manager bugs........oh shoot I am looking at bugs in the package itself not Ubuntu!  I didnt even notice that!
[02:51] <RedSingularity> now i look like a complete moron :(  sorry about that
[02:51] <micahg> RedSingularity: you're not the first to do that, don't worry
[03:14] <paultag> Hey buggers. Came accross this -- https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnome-panel/+bug/631664 -- It's filed against GNOME, but upstream GNOME passed it to compiz -- Someone might want to re-assign that off GNOME to make our data nice and pretty :)
[03:14] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 631664 in gnome-panel (Ubuntu Maverick) (and 2 other projects) "Clock / calendar / locations applet opens on wrong position of screen (affects: 11) (heat: 147)" [Low,Confirmed]
[03:14] <paultag> nigelb, ^ if you have a sec :)
[03:18] <nigelb> paultag: ugh, the open composting site is down, soo I dunno what the upstream comment is yet.
[03:18] <paultag> nigelb, aye
[03:19] <paultag> nigelb, from the comments, it looked like it was ACK'd and filed by RH a few years ago?
[03:19] <paultag> nigelb, GNOME filed it not GNOME
[03:19]  * nigelb sleep deprived and can't think yt
[03:19] <paultag> nigelb, no worries man
[03:25] <yeria_> http://wulfnir.com/forums/29029/error-the-symbol-grub_xputs-not-found
[03:25] <yeria_> upgrade 10.04 -> 10.10 fucked up my ubuntu, now it doesnt boot
[03:25] <yeria_> with same problems as on that website.
[03:26] <yeria_> bbl
[03:33] <vish> paultag¦ done
[03:33] <paultag> vish, thanks :)
[03:33] <paultag> vish, how are you these days?
[03:33] <vish> np..
[03:33] <vish> paultag¦ fine, just a bit busy :s
[03:34] <paultag> vish, Oh no :( -- with what?
[03:34] <vish> paultag¦ i have like 1000mails to catch up with and I dont know how i'm going to :(
[03:35] <paultag> vish, well, avoid burnout -- you have to be able to say no sometimes :)
[03:35] <vish> paultag¦ heh, i always thought wth the hell is that burnout people keep talking about.. gotta face it to believe it ;p
[03:36] <paultag> vish, yessir
[03:36] <paultag> vish, I've faced it lots, I gotta look out for everyone else :)
[03:36] <paultag> vish, say NO to some of it ( or pass it off )
[03:37] <paultag> vish, anywho, I'll let you get back to work
[03:37] <paultag> vish, thanks for the bug poke :)
[03:37] <vish> paultag¦ np.. :)
[03:39] <vish> paultag¦ nah, sunday, no work yet.. gonna watch a movie! :D   [was catching up with all the highlights in the channels ;)]
[03:39] <vish> paultag¦ the tough part is figuring out who /isnt/ around for me to reply ;)
[03:40] <yeria_> is the broken grub a known bug in 10.10?
[03:41] <micahg> !ohmy | yeria_
[03:41] <ubot2> yeria_: Please remember that all Ubuntu IRC channels share the same attitude of providing friendly and polite interaction with all users of all ages and cultures. Basically, this means no foul language and no abuse towards others.
[03:41] <yeria_> also, how to boot system  with  root=/dev/sda3  boot=/dev/sda8   from the  grub_rescue  console thing?
[03:41] <paultag> vish, haha aye :)
[03:41]  * vish confused with micahg's factoid..
[03:42] <vish> micahg¦ oh earlier.. nvm
[03:45] <micahg> yeria_: you might want to check in #ubuntu, I'm having an issue searching right now for bugs
[04:08] <yeria_> good job guys,  computer doesnt boot :[
[04:08] <vish> \o/ yay!  we achieved our goal!!
[04:08] <micahg> yeria_: we triage bugs in here, #ubuntu is for support (they might actually be able to help you :))
[04:12] <mgunes> does Malone no longer do RSS feeds? I haven't used that for a while and now it seems gone. I can't find any mention of what might have changed either.
[04:14] <micahg> mgunes: you might want to check in #launchpad
[04:23] <hggdh> mgunes: no there are still feeds -- eeebotu lives from them
[04:25] <mgunes> hggdh, I was about to ask you how it works ;)
[04:25] <mgunes> it seems to be a Firefox 4 issue; 3.6.x works fine.
[04:26] <micahg> mgunes: where are you trying feeds from, wfm on bugs
[04:27] <mgunes> +bugs pages, bug pages, every page where a feed should be advertised.
[04:28] <micahg> mgunes: works for me, might be one of your extensions breaking it
[04:28] <mgunes> micahg: could be. I'll investigate.
[04:37] <enav> you guys know some good opensource workflow????
[04:39] <mgunes> enav, could you be more descriptive? what exactly are you looking for in a "workflow"?
[04:40] <enav> workflow is a workflow... there is no an alternative name for such a thing
[04:40] <micahg> enav: that's off topic for this channel, maybe try in #ubuntu
[04:41] <enav> here is in this channel some kind of function to look up bug entryes?
[04:42] <enav> !bug vulume
[04:42] <micahg> enav: we triage bugs in here
[04:42] <micahg> and help people file them
[04:42] <enav> i know it... but here is some utility to find bug reports?   im tallking about this channel
[04:43] <micahg> enav: not by name, if you know the number, you can /msg ubot2 bug number
[04:43] <enav> i don't know the exact name but i guess is irc commands  or bots
[04:43] <enav> ok i see
[04:44] <enav> so far only numbers i guess
[04:56] <rusivi> Hey anybody know if the "opinion" status is still an option for non-maintainers/ubuntu bug control?
[04:56] <micahg> rusivi: but it should be used only by maintainers in Ubuntu
[04:56] <micahg> oops, meant to start that with idk
[04:56] <micahg> rusivi: what bug #?
[04:57] <rusivi> well I am just asking no bug in particular at this point
[04:57] <micahg> k
[04:58] <rusivi> Is this project/partner repo dependent or is this blanket across Launchpad?
[04:58] <micahg> rusivi: ?
[04:58] <micahg> opinion is on all projects AFAIK
[05:04] <rusivi> Just inquiring, regarding bug 624900 for example, this is considered settled. Pretend I thought it was something that I thought was "opinion" with good reason(s), instead of "won't fix", at this time I do not have that option if I wanted to do so...
[05:04] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 624900 in wine (Ubuntu) (and 1 other project) "Authbind not binding WINE to 127.0.0.1:895 - WINE does not support LD_PRELOAD (affects: 1) (heat: 72)" [Wishlist,Won't fix] https://launchpad.net/bugs/624900
[05:05] <rusivi> Seemed that is the "new normal" for launchpad?!
[05:05] <rusivi> maintainers have final say, tough turkletons.
[05:05] <rusivi> :p
[05:06] <micahg> rusivi: right, not your choice, it's up to the maintainer if they feel it needs more discussion (opinion) or won't fix
[05:06] <rusivi> micahg: fair enough. Just wanted to clarify.
[05:06] <vish> 'Opinion' is like saying "Wont Fix" but without the pleasures of getting flamed for wont-fixing it.. so its just less fun ;)
[05:09] <rusivi> So if a community member wanted to dispute a maintainer's chosen action of "won't fix" their primary method of dispute is the bug itself/IRC/E-Mailing maintainer directly?
[05:12] <vish> its like complaining about the neighbour's garden being unkept or whatever, ultimately its the owner's [maintainer's] choice, how/where to bring a discussion depends on maintainer's workflow
[05:12] <hggdh> you could comment on the bug, you coul email the developer/maintainers ML
[05:13] <rusivi> vish: oh ok, I have noticed that community members post a forum link in the bug itself in efforts to continue the discussion instead of filling up the bug directly, another reason for my asking.
[05:13] <hggdh> but -- basically -- if I am the developer of a package, and decide not to do whatever it is that was asked, this is my decision, and (until I change my views) final
[05:14] <hggdh> of course, there is always the option of a fork
[05:14] <vish> yea! its my garden! get off my lawn!
[05:14] <vish> ;p
[05:14] <hggdh> not really this way...
[05:14] <hggdh> :-)
[05:14] <vish> rusivi¦ thats one way we divert discussions..
[05:15] <vish> some bugs have more than 600 comments :s
[05:16] <hggdh> rusivi: bugs are for tecnnical issues. Discussions about decisions are not really a bug, but a community issue
[05:16] <vish> rusivi¦ also, sometimes if upstream does not want to fix a bug, and Ubuntu wants to fix it, we make the change in the distribution
[05:17] <vish> that too depends on very much on the bug in question
[05:17] <rusivi> vish: I have noticed cases where upstream say's won't fix, and Ubuntu fixes it
[05:19] <hggdh> yes, it happens. This creates a delta, though.
[05:21] <vish> rusivi¦ yup, there are often reasons for that, Ubuntu we try to be an user-friendly distro and try to avoid a few hurdles, but often we try to fix it in a way upstream would like it too
[05:21] <vish> and if upstream likes our changes, they have a second look at the issue
[05:22] <rusivi> vish: I have found Ubuntu to be excellent so far in working together with partner communities and finding amicable resolution for all/high majority involved.
[05:23] <hggdh> yes, we try hard. This is the whole idea, improve for all. Sometimes it is difficult, most of the times is non-controversial
[05:23] <vish> rusivi¦ so that means you are not switching to fedora? ;)  [i havent visited your lp page in a while, so not sure you have updated it or not :)  ]
[05:25] <rusivi> vish: I did take it down, but was very salty at the time about a few things I misunderstood. It's cleared up now, all the salt is gone.
[05:25] <vish> cool! :)
[05:26] <rusivi> vish: but along that same tenor, Red Hat does regulate well on bugs ;)
[05:26] <hggdh> heh. Sort of. There is Fedora, and there is RH
[05:26]  * vish doesnt know ;)
[05:27] <hggdh> RH seems to be getting back to its roots, but Fedora is still (in my view) a testbed for RH
[05:27] <rusivi> I've had Red Hat devs regulate quickly on Fedora bugs the few times I used their tracker. I was very impressed.
[05:27] <hggdh> well, until you get to a bug that is RH-restricted
[05:27] <vish> rusivi¦ its more about volume, IMO, they have lesser volume ;)
[05:28] <micahg> they've also had a little more time to improve their processes
[05:28] <hggdh> and I have gotten across some... that would (perhaps) be interesting for all in the FLOSS arena
[05:28] <hggdh> but if you are not RH, you do not have access to such bugs
[05:29] <rusivi> hggdh: Yes, regarding RH bugs, it's RH-subscribers only, same with the knowledge base.
[05:29] <hggdh> (IBM used to have something similar to this, but they used to classify the comments, not the whole bug)
[05:30] <hggdh> rusivi: yes. OTOH, the majority of our bugs are publicly-accessible.
[05:31] <rusivi> hggdh: The public-accessibility is what makes Launchpad the pinnacle bug tracker that many other trackers could benefit from by further emulating.
[05:32] <hggdh> yes, I agree.
[05:34] <rusivi> Switching topics real quick, one thing that Launchpad leaves to be desired is fighting the "dev's got it" mentality. I've found as an aspiring FOSS dev that when I create bugs, I am looking for the dev's to give me tasks to do, as I do not know how to proceed in fixing it myself. Yes, one could retort, "ask in IRC, shoot maintainer E-Mail, etc." but if I don't have that kind of access/time and the bug tracker is my primary communic
[05:34] <rusivi> ation platform, I find myself in somewhat of a lurch...
[05:36] <micahg> rusivi: I don't think that's the purpose of a bug tracker
[05:37] <hggdh> indeed. There are dev MLs, and IRC channels for that
[05:38] <hggdh> but -- and this is really important -- it usually pays for a "new kid on the block" (from a dev's warped POV) to sign up for the MLs, IRC channels, and lurk for a while
[05:39] <hggdh> this will give one a feeling of how they manage the project, which can help a lot to minimise misunterstandings
[05:39] <hggdh> as I (like to) say, when you enter a city, abide by its rules
[05:40] <micahg> when in rome
[05:41] <hggdh> do as romans...
[05:41] <hggdh> :-)
[05:41] <hggdh> yes
[05:42] <rusivi> hggdh: Yes, it is understood and agreed that the way things traditionally go in FOSS development, is to do exactly what your suggesting. I'm looking at it from a more "Google" mentality of information, give me what I want, when I want, don't make me dig.
[05:52] <hggdh> heh. It is not a bad idea, at all. The problem is not always we get what we want/need
[05:52]  * hggdh remembers an old song from the Rolling Stones
[05:54] <rusivi> A great example of what satisfies my desire in bridging the gap between newb & pro dev is the "download the presentation" regarding the recent Ubuntu Hardware Summit http://www.ubuntu.com/uhs2010 this is THE most explicit expose on "A day in the life of a pro FOSS dev." While I did not understand most of the technical information, it really gets the heart of what I am talking about.
[05:56] <hggdh> yes
[06:08]  * hggdh wonders why people cannot *read* the instructions on how to apply to bugsquad or bugcontrol :-(
[06:08] <hggdh> ah well. This is it. good night, everybody.
[06:19] <rusivi> Regarding bug 605141 I honestly do not expect the maintainer to apply a patch to the lower version of WINE, as well I do not intend to apply a patch either (I don't have anywhere near the time/skills)... seems this is a bug that should be in the opinion state.
[06:19] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 605141 in wine1.2 (Ubuntu) (and 1 other project) "iTunes 7.7.1.11 downloading hangs in Wine (affects: 1) (heat: 42)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/605141
[06:19] <rusivi> with low importance
[06:32] <njin> hello, could some UNE expert explain this ?https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bug/518242 thanks
[06:32] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 518242 in ubuntu "Unable To Display Auto Wallpaper Changer In 9.10 UNR / 10.04 UNE Alpha 2 ONLY : Toshiba NB 200 / 205 (affects: 2) (heat: 12)" [Undecided,Incomplete]
[06:42] <nisshh> hggdh, hey, my bugsquad-mentorship membership is about to expire, but id still like to be mentored :)
[06:44] <nisshh> vish, ^^^^
[07:00] <vish> nisshh¦ when?
[07:00] <vish> nisshh¦ hurry up and become BC already!
[07:00] <vish> ;p
[07:02] <vish> nisshh¦ how many bugs have you triaged till now?  if have some understanding about the importances/statses apply for BC.. :)
[07:06] <micahg> s/some/good/
[07:06] <AbhiJit> need to file bug for oo word. whats the package name please?
[07:07] <rusivi> AbhiJit: openoffice.org-writer
[07:07] <AbhiJit> rusivi, ok
[07:07] <rusivi> AbhiJit: When you do file it plz let me know, I like to keep up on the OOo bugs
[07:07] <AbhiJit> :)
[07:08] <micahg> rusivi: you should subscribe to the source package then
[07:08] <rusivi> micahg: I said like, not love :p
[07:08] <AbhiJit> :D
[07:08] <micahg> rusivi: you can filter and read what you want :P
[07:10] <AbhiJit> rusivi, https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/openoffice.org/+bug/662021
[07:10] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 662021 in openoffice.org (Ubuntu) "Open Office writer cant support ₹ (affects: 1) (heat: 6)" [Undecided,New]
[07:11] <AbhiJit> vish, ^^
[07:12] <AbhiJit> i have account in oo bugzilla. please guide me for upstream linking. rusivi
[07:14] <rusivi> AbhiJit: Well I'll warn you based on my OOo upstream dealings they will most likely try to newb you on this one, asking you to install newest OOo...
[07:14] <AbhiJit> :o
[07:14] <AbhiJit> :(
[07:15] <AbhiJit> ok
[07:16] <AbhiJit> can anyone mark it as confirm and set importance?
[07:16] <micahg> libreoffice will hopefully fix that
[07:16] <rusivi> micahg: I am glad you mentioned that b/c I have noticed the schism of OOo, libreoffice, & Novell's version OO-something
[07:17] <rusivi> AbhiJit: I have OOo Writer now let me check it out real quick
[07:17] <micahg> rusivi: well, go-oo will probably start sourcing from lbreoffice
[07:17] <AbhiJit> yah
[07:18] <rusivi> micahg: It seemed strange to me that the PDF import function was not native in OOo Draw, instead I had to install it as a "plug-in"
[07:18] <rusivi> micahg: or having that function native in OOo Writer
[07:19] <micahg> rusivi: that's a dsitro thing
[07:20] <AbhiJit> rusivi, i just found out that i can copy paste the rupee symbol from gedit to oo word
[07:20] <nisshh> vish, sorry i was afk for a sec there, i have not done very many so far (maybe 8-10) but i have been busy with other projects :)
[07:21] <nisshh> vish, i don't wish to apply for BC yet, i do not think i have enough experience
[07:21] <nisshh> vish, i plan to get back into triaging a bit later this year
[07:23] <AbhiJit> i filed it upstream
[07:23] <AbhiJit> http://www.openoffice.org/issues/show_bug.cgi?id=115094
[07:23] <ubot2> OpenOffice.org bug 115094 in Word processor "Open Office writer cant support ₹" [Feature,Unconfirmed: ]
[07:23] <vish> nisshh¦ hmm, well if you are not planning on triaging for a while now, its better to not block kermiac..
[07:23] <vish> nisshh¦ that is a very busy time slot and there are others waiting
[07:23] <vish> the three waiting are from tht slot
[07:23] <rusivi> AbhiJit: I'll gentlemen's bet you that the upstream bug get's closed within 2 days as invalid :D
[07:24] <AbhiJit> :(
[07:24] <vish> nisshh¦ maybe re-applying when you are free for triaging would be good too
[07:24] <rusivi> AbhiJit: I'm jk'ing around btw
[07:24] <AbhiJit> brb
[07:24] <nisshh> vish, waiting for mentors?
[07:24] <vish> yup
[07:24] <nisshh> i see
[07:25] <nisshh> vish, do you think it is worth getting my mentors thoughts on if i am ready for BC or just no mentor and whatnot?
[07:25] <vish> nisshh¦ yes, sure..
[07:26] <nisshh> vish, by a while, i mean a couple of weeks
[07:26] <nisshh> vish, just have to get 2 projects out the way first
[07:27] <vish> nisshh¦ np.. but just that everyone applying seems to be from the US slot and we can atleast try to get those free into BC when they are free ;)
[07:27] <nisshh> vish, what kind of knowledge would i need to be accepted into BC anyway? i thought i needed to be a fairly experienced triager?
[07:28] <nisshh> vish, ah i see
[07:28] <vish> nisshh¦ btw, you had 3months ;)
[07:28] <nisshh> vish, true, i did have 3 months
[07:28] <vish> nisshh¦ if you have atleast 5bugs you think you have triaged well, you can just apply.. but do ask kermiac's opinion
[07:29] <nisshh> vish, i see, ok thanks :)
[07:29] <vish> nisshh¦ you know the BugControl requirements right?
[07:29] <vish> its just the 5best bugs..
[07:30] <nisshh> vish, yea, im reading the BC page in the wiki right now
[07:43] <rusivi> AbhiJit: As a followup to your bug 662021 the issue your bringing up is that the Indian Rupee  symbol is not natively found via "Insert" -> "Special Character" like other currencies, pound, euro, dollar, etc. I am glad to confirm that. As an aside, as micahg noted in his comment about libreoffice, libre has been created to address a mega-ton of end-user issues that have been brewing for some time now.
[07:43] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 662021 in openoffice.org (Ubuntu) "Open Office writer cant support ₹ (affects: 1) (heat: 6)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/662021
[07:43] <AbhiJit> rusivi, wait
[07:44] <rusivi> AbhiJit: Ok.
[07:44] <AbhiJit> rusivi, i just had an little talk in #openoffice.org
[07:44] <AbhiJit> and we found that i cant type ₹ in oo by using ctrl shift u20b9
[07:44] <AbhiJit> but i can insert from insert->special character->ubuntu
[07:44] <AbhiJit> there is that symbol
[07:44] <AbhiJit> i can insert it
[07:45] <rusivi> AbhiJit: strange, I just looked in it in Lucid and did not see the symbol...
[07:46] <AbhiJit> rusivi, see under font name 'ubuntu'
[07:46] <micahg> rusivi: font isn't in Lucid
[07:47] <rusivi> micahg: Ah ha!
[07:47] <AbhiJit> i have installed the font ttf-ubuntu-font-family
[07:48] <rusivi> AbhiJit: Ah yes reading up on that font package that's what is noted via Google to install to get that symbol
[07:48] <AbhiJit> hmm
[07:49] <AbhiJit> rusivi, now we are trying to figure out the oo shortcut for it in #openoffice.org
[07:49] <rusivi> AbhiJit: The issue does boil down to, why do you have to install font packages that should arguably already be in OOo Writer?! Enter libreoffice go-oo
[07:49] <AbhiJit> :)
[07:49] <micahg> rusivi: fonts are system installed
[07:51] <rusivi> micahg: Then why is the Euro symbol already in the Symbol area in Lucid but the Indian Rupee is not? Not trying to make this into a debate just pointing to the issue at hand regarding OOo/libre/go-oo
[07:52] <micahg> rusivi: indian rupee is only in the Ubuntu font at the moment
[07:52] <AbhiJit> rusivi, indian rupee symbol is just introduced in this year
[07:52] <AbhiJit> it was not in existing before
[07:52] <AbhiJit> thas why
[07:53] <rusivi> Ok no big deal :D
[07:53] <AbhiJit> rusivi, ok tell me do you know a shortcut for any other symbol in oo?
[07:53] <AbhiJit> any?
[07:53] <rusivi> AbhiJit: I usually key-macro commonly used symbols
[07:53] <AbhiJit> oh
[07:54] <rusivi> like if I type euro then it would auto-macro to the euro sign
[07:54] <rusivi> alpha = alpha sign etc
[07:54] <AbhiJit> hmm
[07:58] <rusivi> AbhiJit: Another thing is then when I copy then paste something into IRC I notice that box with the 4 numbers in it on the end of what I copied.
[07:58] <AbhiJit> i see
[07:59] <atrus> rusivi: that one on the end is probably a newline character.
[07:59] <AbhiJit> yah you are right atrus its new line only
[09:21] <njin> hello to all, can someone explain me what means "drm: registered panic notifier", is a normal advice  or what? thanks
[12:51] <xteejx> Bug 176670 was marked as a duplicate of bug 616246 and I don't see why, so I undone it. Was the duplicate right??
[12:51] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 176670 in pype (Ubuntu) "pype imports old wx, fails (heat: 4)" [Low,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/176670
[12:51] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 616246 in awn-extras "ValueError in Hardware Sensors: Could not set new value of 'labels' (affects: 2) (dups: 3) (heat: 26)" [Medium,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/616246
[12:53] <penguin42> no I can't either - I wish Launchpad let you comment on setting a dupe
[12:55] <xteejx> penguin42: I thought it was me being stupid and missing something :)
[12:55] <penguin42> xteejx: It could be someone typo'd the number
[12:56] <xteejx> Hmm I guess so
[13:05] <penguin42> https://bugs.launchpad.net/launchpad/+bug/662123
[13:05] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 662123 in launchpad "Duplicate process should help at verifying target (affects: 1) (heat: 6)" [Undecided,New]
[13:05]  * penguin42 just created that
[13:08] <xteejx> def +1 on that
[13:18] <xteejx> !info gimageview
[13:18] <ubot2> xteejx: Package gimageview does not exist in maverick
[13:18] <xteejx> !info gimv
[13:18] <ubot2> xteejx: Package gimv does not exist in maverick
[13:18] <xteejx> oops wrong window :)
[13:25] <AbhiJit> hi
[13:43] <yabruss> Hello
[13:49] <penguin42> hi
[13:50] <xteejx> yabruss: Hi :)
[13:53] <ari-tczew> lol, I can't add photo to facebook.com by firefox on ubuntu maverick
[14:02] <xteejx> ari-tczew: I haven't had any problems, try the simple uploader
[14:09] <geekosopher> the reporter of bug 659668 installed the mainline kernel and still faces the problem, so does that mean it is an upstream bug?
[14:09] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 659668 in linux (Ubuntu) "Ubuntu does not suspend for Lenovo Thinkpad T500 (affects: 10) (dups: 1) (heat: 66)" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/659668
[14:10] <geekosopher> devildante: !!
[14:10] <persia> geekosopher, Kinda.  If you get the same behaviour with Ubuntu and Upstream kernels, it means the bug is present in both places.  I'm not sure it's fair to call it an "upstream bug".
[14:11] <geekosopher> so what should be done about it?
[14:11] <persia> Well, it's worth noting you could reproduce with an upstream kernel (and precisely which one) in the launchpad report.
[14:12] <persia> Also, if it's not reported upstream yet, it's worth reporting it there, detailing which version of the upstream kernel you used to reproduce the bug.
[14:17] <yabruss> Hello, I note that a Ubuntu Bug is also reported into kernel.org bugtracker: may I write it somewhere ?
[14:18] <xteejx> "Also affects project"
[14:18] <nigelb> I don't think that happen for the kernel bug tracker yet
[14:19] <devildante> nigelb: it *does* happen
[14:19] <xteejx> You can still link it in though
[14:19] <nigelb> oh, we started having bug watches for kernel now? I thought we didn't yet
[14:20] <xteejx> nigelb: we've had it ages
[14:20] <nigelb> hrm, most be the importing that we don't have for kernel
[14:21] <xteejx> nigelb: Yeah I don't think we have that just yet, a work in progress :)
[14:21] <nigelb> s/most/must
[14:21] <yabruss> it seems to work ... not sure bug status is updated correctly (bugzilla)
[14:22] <persia> There exists a bugzilla plugin.  Whether it happens to be enabled for that bugzilla instance is another thing.
[14:23] <xteejx> grrrrrr that really annoys me when people report bugs and then not bother replying¬
[14:23] <penguin42> xteejx: It might be they're no longer using Ubuntu, or it's a real PITA for them to repeat the test - e.g. maybe the machine they tried it on has been reinstalled or is now running something critical
[14:24] <persia> xteejx, Some people just take a while to reply.  And, especially for requests to reproduce, some folk are too annoyed to respond.
[14:24] <devildante> xteejx: it's why auto-expiry of bugs exist ;)
[14:24] <xteejx> penguin42: I think it's more a case they can't be bothered and peed off lol
[14:24] <penguin42> xteejx: Yeh it happens
[14:24] <xteejx> auto-expiry doesn't close them though :(
[14:25]  * persia has a couple bugs which will never get another response until they are fixed, simply because it's far too obvious that they exist from 30 second inspection without running anything at all to do more than flip it back to "confirmed" when folks ask for reproduction.
[14:25] <persia> devildante, Autoexpiry doesn't help in the least for many things, but potentially.
[14:25] <xteejx> persia: Yeah I've seen one or two like that, the most famous prbably bug 1
[14:25] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 1 in tilix (and 19 other projects) "Microsoft has a majority market share (affects: 606) (heat: 2849)" [High,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1
[14:26] <persia> Anyway, we provide poor service asking others to reproduce: we should be attempting to reproduce and maintain current status.
[14:26] <xteejx> persia: I do if I can ;)
[14:26] <xteejx> I've been doing this long enough now lol
[14:26] <persia> xteejx, I know.  You're one of the better folk when it come to actually trying to reproduce though.
[14:26]  * penguin42 looks through his pile of bugs he's reported and finds a couple that have been fixed - yeh!
[14:27] <xteejx> persia: :D thanks
[14:27]  * xteejx blushes lol
[14:27]  * xteejx slaps penguin42 with a wet fish
[14:27] <penguin42> hey!
[14:27]  * penguin42 takes xteejx
[14:27] <penguin42> 's fish
[14:27] <xteejx> :)
[14:29] <penguin42> it's nice being able to bump stuff to fix released
[14:29] <xteejx> If only the rest of the bugs were that simple
[14:30] <persia> All bugs are simple, really.
[14:30] <xteejx> Once you get the hang of triaging, yes :)
[14:47] <penguin42> what should happen to a bug where the package is no longer in Ubuntu?
[14:48] <devildante> penguin42: it should be triaged on the Ubuntu version the package is still on
[14:48] <penguin42> devildante: The package disappeared after dapper though
[14:48] <devildante> ah
[14:48] <devildante> penguin42: then mark as Invalid, I suppose
[14:49]  * devildante wishes we had a standard response for these cases though
[14:49] <penguin42> well it's my own bug report so I won't get offended by my reply
[14:49] <devildante> lol
[14:49] <devildante> sorry :p
[14:50] <devildante> penguin42: what's bug number? just curious ;)
[14:50] <penguin42> bug 124742
[14:50] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 124742 in ivi (Ubuntu) "IVI detected a fatal error loading vcd (heat: 2)" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/124742
[14:51] <devildante> penguin42: you didn't use ubuntu-bug :p
[14:52] <penguin42> was it around in 2007 ?
[14:52] <devildante> bad reporter :p
[14:52] <devildante> Idk
[14:52] <penguin42> don't think it was you know
[14:52] <devildante> ah
[14:52] <devildante> sorry then :)
[14:54] <penguin42> ooh and I'm going to close bug 17551 as well, it seems to have been fixed
[14:54] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 17551 in manpages (Ubuntu) (and 1 other project) "gethostid in wrong manual section (heat: 1)" [Low,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/17551
[15:10] <MiMe> Where should I report bugs for applications not having "Report a Problem" in their menus?
[15:10] <bilalakhtar> MiMe: run ubuntu-bug PACKAGE_NAME in a terminal
[15:11] <bilalakhtar> replace PACKAGE_NAME with the name of the application package
[15:11] <MiMe> and is launchpad down for now? I can't open it
[15:12] <bilalakhtar> MiMe: no, its opening for me
[15:12] <bilalakhtar> MiMe: Which is the application?
[15:12] <MiMe> Docky
[15:13] <bilalakhtar> MiMe: Did you install it from the Ubuntu repos or from a PPA?
[15:13] <MiMe> from Ubuntu Reositories
[15:13] <bilalakhtar> MiMe: then run ubuntu-bug docky
[15:13] <MiMe> yeah, I did it
[15:14] <MiMe> but launchpad is not loading
[15:14] <xteejx> LP is fine here
[15:14] <bilalakhtar> MiMe: Try to go to https://launchpad.net/
[15:14] <MiMe> bilalakhtar: I tried that too
[15:15] <MiMe> bilalakhtar: didn't work
[15:15] <MiMe> bilalakhtar: I even tried using a proxy
[15:15] <bilalakhtar> MiMe- Probably its some problem with your IRP
[15:15] <bilalakhtar> *ISP
[15:15] <bilalakhtar> MiMe- https://edge.launchpad.net/
[15:15] <bilalakhtar> Try ^^
[15:15] <xteejx> I was gonna say try edge
[15:16] <MiMe> That's not working too
[15:16] <bilalakhtar> Is your ISP blocking connections on https?
[15:16] <xteejx> MiMe: See if you can ping 91.189.89.225
[15:17] <MiMe> yes, i can
[15:17] <MiMe> blocking https by my ISP is possible, 'cause I'm in Iran
[15:17] <xteejx> Then there is no problem with the connection to LP, it's your browser or your ISP and https
[15:17] <MiMe> I thought the proxy should fix that
[15:17] <MiMe> if the problem was ISP block and such things
[15:18] <xteejx> MiMe: What about the Google cache version? http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&cd=1&sqi=2&ved=0CCcQIDAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwebcache.googleusercontent.com%2Fsearch%3Fq%3Dcache%3ADycxqvIhcAAJ%3Ahttps%3A%2F%2Flaunchpad.net%2F%2Blaunchpad%26cd%3D1%26hl%3Den%26ct%3Dclnk&rct=j&q=launchpad&ei=lwW7TPOgBIvJswb8-LWoDQ&usg=AFQjCNGcGmOyt81JZI9qYd_QilXN2QUA7Q&cad=rja
[15:18] <xteejx> ok that was longer than I thougth it'd be
[15:19] <MiMe> It loads, but not fully
[15:19] <MiMe> only the headers
[15:19] <xteejx> weird
[15:19] <MiMe> yah
[15:19] <xteejx> must be the ISP
[15:20] <MiMe> hmm, maybe, but did try both a proxy and SSH Tunnel, none worked
[15:21] <MiMe> WOW, I could open it with a text-based browser. Any idea?
[15:22] <xteejx> MiMe: Pass :(
[15:25] <MiMe> I can't open launchpad with any of my browsers (Firefox, Opera, Chromium) also tried SSH Tunnel and Proxy, but didn't work. And to make it more complicated ( ;) ) I could open it with a text-based browser (namely "w3m"), Any idea?
[15:26] <penguin42> what happens if you do?
[15:26] <MiMe> do what?
[15:27] <penguin42> MiMe: If you try and open it in Firefox what happens?
[15:27] <MiMe> penguin42: I get "Problem loading page" (The connection was interrupted)
[15:28] <penguin42> weird
[15:29] <xteejx> You don't have a firewall set to block port 81 do you?
[15:30] <penguin42> 81?
[15:30] <xteejx> 81 = htttps
[15:30] <xteejx> https even
[15:30] <MiMe> nope, but the ISP may have blocked it. (but did you mention that I can open it in w3m?)
[15:31] <xteejx> MiMe: Maybe they block everything except text on https? I don't know, you'll have to contact hem about it
[15:31] <xteejx> Try their website
[15:31] <MiMe> but I don't have any problem with other https sites
[15:31] <MiMe> btw, I think I'd better go and check it using wiresharks
[15:31] <MiMe> and thnks to all of your ideas
[15:32] <xteejx> MiMe: You're welcome, good luck! :)
[15:48] <hggdh> hum. bug 662016. This comes up every so often...
[15:48] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 662016 in coreutils (Ubuntu) "use "-I" option for "rm" command by default (affects: 1) (heat: 6)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/662016
[15:50] <tux_racer> \join #ubuntu-de
[15:53] <devildante> the other way, tux_racer :p
[15:54] <devildante> hggdh: we should have a master bug marked as opinion for these cases
[16:01] <xteejx> I was hoping that one day bugs like that would be irrelevant and we'd be completely GUI, but not just yet ;)
[16:11] <geekosopher> what should be the correct package for bug 661883
[16:11] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 661883 in network-manager (Ubuntu) "Wireless network crashes when ubuntu tries to connect (affects: 1) (heat: 8)" [Undecided,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/661883
[16:15] <xteejx> geekosopher: ndiswrapper?
[16:16] <penguin42> not much in the logs is there
[16:17] <xteejx> Not as much as a dev would like
[16:17] <xteejx> Probably best to get an apport-collect -p linux BUG
[16:17] <penguin42> well if it is linux there doesn't look like an oops there
[16:17] <xteejx> Just so we can get basic hardware info plus dmesg - see if somethings going wrong in the logs
[16:35] <geekosopher> xteejx: how do I know? which resources can I refer? there is nothing on /Bugs/FindRightPackage
[16:36] <xteejx> geekosopher: If you're not sure, just leave as is for now :)
[16:37] <geekosopher> xteejx: no no, what I wanted to know was, how did you deduct that its ndiswrapper? is this documented somewhere?
[16:38] <xteejx> I'm guessing, since he's using ndiswrapper for the driver, it's in the description
[16:40] <geekosopher> xteejx: oh, ok... so I guess its fine to keep it like that. network-manager experts would know better? :)
[16:40] <xteejx> I guess so, unless someone else here knows more about that kinda stuff :)
[16:40] <xteejx> But leaving it as that should be fine for now
[16:41] <geekosopher> ok 8-)
[17:05] <hggdh> vish: nisshh asked to be extended on he mentorship, but I cannot see kermiac. What do you suggest?
[17:06] <vish> hggdh¦ yea, did you continue reading after that? i spoke to nisshh , i suggested he either apply for BC or re-apply later when he has time..
[17:07] <vish> the pending students are from tht time slot.. :(
[17:08] <hggdh> vish: sorry, no, I did not read the sequence... sorry to bother on that, then
[17:09] <vish> hggdh¦ nah.. no probs.. :) it does poke nisshh again ;)
[17:11] <MiMe> Where should I suggest an idea for making a program better? (It's not a bug, something like a request for adding a feature)
[17:11] <vish> !brainstorm > MiMe
[17:11] <ubot2> MiMe, please see my private message
[17:12] <vish> MiMe¦ if its too big a feature like writing a new app.. brainstorm
[17:12] <vish> MiMe¦ if its just a small wishlist, then launchpad bug
[17:13] <geekosopher> I wish I could ask for a mentor. But my times are terribly irregular :( but then I have always got guidance whenever I asked for :)
 should I send it as a bug (using ubuntu-bug?) or ...
 : it's a small wish
[17:15] <vish> MiMe¦ without knowing what the wish, i really cant comment if its small or big.. but if you think it is small , just file a bug using 'ubuntu-bug $PACKAGENAME'  and someone will triage it :)
[17:15] <vish> what the wish is*
 : thanks
[17:15] <vish> np..
[17:16] <micahg> xteejx: BTW, we try not to ask the reporter to reproduce anymore, we try to reproduce ourselves
[17:27] <xteejx> micahg: Huh?
[17:27] <xteejx> micahg: Oh right, yeah I do try if I can
[17:27] <xteejx> If it's hardware or something then I can't, or specifics
[17:39] <xteejx> Bug 397805 - not too sure if this is just a clash between 2 flash players. Any ideas?
[17:39] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 397805 in swfdec-mozilla (Ubuntu) "Do not play videos (affects: 1) (heat: 7)" [Undecided,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/397805
[18:00] <micahg> xteejx: I think swfdec is broke and abandonded, gnash replaces it in maverick, it should work now
[18:00] <xteejx> micahg: So with that particular bug, comment and close?
[18:04] <micahg> xteejx: In this case, I think we need more information from the user since it should work on Maverick
[18:04] <xteejx> Cool
[18:06] <om26er> I cant get a nautilus backtrace. can anyone help?
[18:06] <xteejx> What's the prob?
[18:08] <om26er> if I run gdb and then do 'attach [pid]' i get this http://paste.ubuntu.com/515120/ without even creating the crash
[18:09] <penguin42> om26er: Yeh so just do c to continue
[18:09] <penguin42> om26er: It should let gdb continue until it crashes
[18:10] <vish> om26er¦ for the crash on eject bug?
[18:10] <om26er> its different
[18:10] <om26er> nautilus crashes when I open an attach phone or right click on it
[18:12] <vish> hmm, why sudo gdb?
[18:12] <om26er> it give some permission error else
[18:13] <om26er> ptrace: Operation not permitted.
[18:15] <om26er> penguin42, thanks it wored and I now have a backtrace :)
[18:20] <om26er> vish, about that usb unmounting bug. isnt it kind of critical for Ubuntu?
[18:20] <vish> seb128 is already on it
[18:46] <penguin42> anyone know how to properly close bug 17551
[18:46] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 17551 in manpages (Ubuntu) (and 1 other project) "gethostid in wrong manual section (heat: 4)" [Low,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/17551
[18:46] <penguin42> I've moved the manpages (Ubuntu) to fix released (good) but the refrence to the external one is still at Fix committed even though it has moved forward and I don't think it's auto tracked - do I just move it to fix released?
[18:50] <xteejx> penguin42: If you're sure its fixed in Ubuntu, yes
[18:50] <xteejx> and upstream
[18:51] <penguin42> hmm I'd better grab the upstream package
[18:52] <xteejx> :)
[18:54] <BUGabundo> hi everyone
[18:55] <xteejx> hey :)
[18:56] <hggdh> hey BUGabundo still no #U+1, I see :-)
[18:56] <penguin42> xteejx: OK, took 3 attempts to persuade Launchpad to move it to fix released
[18:56] <xteejx> penguin42: lol never does what you want it to
[18:57] <xteejx> hggdh, has anything been done for natty yet?
[18:57] <xteejx> I know uds isn't yet
[18:57] <penguin42> when do we get +1 ?
[18:57] <xteejx> Release is 28th april 2011 I think
[18:58] <BUGabundo> hggdh: :(
[18:58] <penguin42> xteejx: oh I meant the channel
[18:58] <xteejx> oh ermm when they set it up :P I dunno
[18:58] <hggdh> xteejx: yes, dev is open for natty
[18:59] <hggdh> xteejx: and 250+ packages have already been submitted
[18:59] <xteejx> hggdh, really? :o
[18:59] <xteejx> I might start working on merges soon, is the toolchain uploaded do you know?
[19:00] <hggdh> xteejx: yes. You can subscribe to natty-changes@lists.ubuntu.com if you want to see the list
[19:00] <micahg> xteejx: uploaded, natty is ready :)
[19:00] <xteejx> cool beans
[19:00] <hggdh> but, of course, I would not move to it yet, too soon
[19:00] <xteejx> hggdh, oh god no I don't want to destroy my machine just yet heh
[19:01] <hggdh> :-) same here... I will wait until the critical pieces are in
[19:01]  * micahg usually waits for beta
[19:01]  * hggdh goes into it by alpha-1
[19:02] <hggdh> but the best is to run it on a VM meanwhile
[19:02]  * BUGabundo is with natty now, and gnome do is broken, yet again
[19:02] <xteejx> yeah i'm gonna virtualbox it for now at least until alpha 1 or 2
[19:03] <BUGabundo> why wait ?
[19:03] <xteejx> I'd prefer this machine to stay stable
[19:03] <xteejx> *relatively stable :P
[19:04] <BUGabundo> mine is... other then gnome do
[19:11] <xteejx> Hmm.... how do I get Natty into virtualbox http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/daily-live/current/ has 10.10 :S
[19:12] <crimsun> erm, is there even a buildable livefs for 11.04 yet?
[19:12] <crimsun> (i.e., no)
[19:12] <xteejx> Well http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/daily/current/ then
[19:12] <xteejx> Still nothing
[19:14] <BUGabundo> xteejx: install maverick and upgrade
[19:14] <BUGabundo> easy
[19:14] <xteejx> BUGabundo, update-manager -d?
[19:14] <BUGabundo> ahaha
[19:14] <BUGabundo> NO
[19:14] <BUGabundo> sed y9our sources.list
[19:14] <crimsun> apt-get or aptitude.
[19:15] <xteejx> what is with everyone with sarcasm tonight??
[19:15] <BUGabundo> its so new, that changes are small enough to not affect it
[19:15] <xteejx> so manually edit apt sources and apt it?
[19:15] <BUGabundo> no sarcarsm
[19:15] <BUGabundo> that's what I did
[19:15] <BUGabundo> yep
[19:15] <crimsun> I don't detect any sarcasm above.
[19:15] <BUGabundo> sudo aptitude update; sudo aptitude safe-upgrade; sudo aptitude full-uprade
[19:15] <xteejx> must be the way I read both of your comments :)
[19:16] <BUGabundo> I'm quite literal...
[19:16] <BUGabundo> I can't even understand sarcasm, much less do it
[19:16] <xteejx> I'm quite stupid ;)
[19:16] <BUGabundo> ahh
[19:16] <BUGabundo> join the group
[19:17] <xteejx> :P
[19:20] <penguin42> Sarcasm? I don't do sarcasm, nooooo, no sarcasm here.....
[19:21]  * xteejx throws penguin42 a fish
[19:21] <xteejx> :)
[19:21]  * micahg wonders what this sarcasm is you speak of
[19:21]  * penguin42 performs a triple sumersault, catches the fish in his beak and lands perfectly back on channel
[19:21] <xteejx> lmfao!
[19:22] <xteejx> from 'sarcasm' to humourous << and Firefox STILL gives me wrong spelling suggestions...I'm English, I speak English, get it right!
[19:22]  * BUGabundo presses record, sits back, and watches penguin42 splash him self while sliding on that water drip
[19:23]  * xteejx steals BUGabundo's tape and sends it to You've Been Framed! in the hope of getting £250
[19:23]  * BUGabundo calls the network and the FBI
[19:23]  * BUGabundo wonders when he joined #ubuntu-offtopic
[19:24] <xteejx> I don't see any tehnical triage going on, I think we're safe for the moment ;)
[19:24] <xteejx> if I could spell technical
[19:25] <BUGabundo> ehe
[19:31] <slinker> bug 661806 medium
[19:31] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 661806 in pitivi (Ubuntu) "Audio not selectable after zooming in (affects: 1) (heat: 6)" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/661806
[19:32] <xteejx> No, it's undecided
[19:33] <slinker> for 661806?
[19:33] <xteejx> Well yeah it says it is
[19:33] <slinker> well I confirmed it on my ubuntu-proposed
[19:33] <xteejx> the Importance is undecidede not medium
[19:33] <slinker> oh
[19:33] <slinker> okay
[19:34] <slinker> somebody had told me in the past to bug <bug> <priority you think>
[19:34] <xteejx> unles you were asking for it to be changed
[19:34] <slinker> just do undecided always?
[19:34] <xteejx> only bug control members can change importance, you could ask politely for it to be changed :)
[19:34] <slinker> yeah, I had asked in the past before and they told me just to type that command so they could see :|
[19:34] <slinker> yeah, sorry :\
[19:34] <slinker> if you could change that
[19:34] <slinker> I have a few others I need changed also
[19:35] <micahg> slinker: usually good to preface the list by asking for the priority to be set :)
[19:35] <slinker> yeah, that makes sense
[19:36] <xteejx> and appedning it with "please" ;)
[19:36] <xteejx> or appending
[19:36] <slinker> Are there some bugs I can report here please?
[19:36] <slinker> I confirmed the
[19:36] <slinker> them*
[19:36] <xteejx> Of course
[19:36] <slinker> xteejx: thanks
[19:36] <slinker> bug 661796 is confirmed
[19:36] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 661796 in empathy (Ubuntu) "Empathy does not keep the avatar-image for msn (affects: 3) (heat: 18)" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/661796
[19:37] <slinker> do you want to know priority?
[19:37] <xteejx> 661806 has been set to Low not Medium - easily workaround-able
[19:38] <slinker> bug 661753 has been confirmed
[19:38] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 661753 in gnome-nettool (Ubuntu) "traceroute column information does not match headers (affects: 2) (heat: 12)" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/661753
[19:39] <xteejx> I can't do them all I have other stuff to do but if anyone else has a chance they can have a look :)
[19:41] <hggdh> I set it to low
[19:41] <slinker> alright, then bug 661806 as well :)
[19:41] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 661806 in pitivi (Ubuntu) "Audio not selectable after zooming in (affects: 1) (heat: 6)" [Low,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/661806
[19:42] <hggdh> slinker: what would you like to be done for this bug?
[19:43] <slinker> make it so you can select the audio track when zoomed in all the way
[19:43] <hggdh> well, you have already confirmed it, have you not?
[19:45] <slinker> yes I have
[19:46] <hggdh> then what we need is to check on upstream BTS, see if it has been reported there -- if not, then report --, and link it back to our bug
[19:46] <hggdh> then we can set it to triaged
[19:50] <slinker> dunno, :\ launchpad is dying on me
[19:58] <hggdh> the upstream is http://bugzilla.gnome.org
[19:58] <xteejx> Hmmm vbox won't create a 10GB fixed size image
[19:58] <xteejx> just hangs, tried controlling under gdb but that hangs too
[20:00] <xteejx> Anyone?/
[20:01] <micahg> xteejx: which version are you using?
[20:01] <xteejx> micahg: maverick
[20:01] <micahg> xteejx: ose?
[20:01] <xteejx> oh sorry, yeah ose
[20:01] <xteejx> it's not a space issue I have 30gb+ free
[20:02] <xteejx> VBoxSVC is showing Sleeping 98% cpu
[20:02] <xteejx> memory leak?
[20:05] <slinker> alright, sent 661806 upstream
[20:05] <xteejx> micahg: Any idea?
[20:05] <micahg> xteejx: idk, maybe try 3.2.10
[20:06] <xteejx> micahg: From upstream you mean>
[20:06] <xteejx> ?
[20:07] <micahg> xteejx: yes
[20:07] <xteejx> Ok I'll try that, thank smicahg
[20:07] <micahg> xteejx: natty has 3.2.10 as well
[20:08] <xteejx> Damn... how do you kill a zombie process??
[20:08] <micahg> feed it brains?
[20:09] <xteejx> lmao
[20:09] <micahg> nah, that'll make it stronger
[20:09] <micahg> xteejx: usually by killing the parent process
[20:10] <xteejx> tried that, i.e. virtualbox
[20:10] <hggdh> slinker: perfect, thank you. I have marked it Triaged
[20:11] <xteejx> sod it i'll just reboot
[20:11] <xteejx> still only be the 3rd time I'v needed to in 4 yrs hehe
[20:31] <Book_em_Dano> Can someone help me obtain a backtrace of reportbug using gdb?  When I enter this: gdb reportbug 2>&1 | tee ~/gdb-reportbug.txt
[20:31] <Book_em_Dano> I get this msg: /usr/bin/reportbug": not in executable format: File format not recognized
[20:32] <micahg> Book_em_Dano: it's a python script, that's why
[20:33] <Book_em_Dano> is there a different method for debugging python scripts?
[20:33] <xteejx> I've seen something on our wiki about it
[20:34] <xteejx> for god sake, why is virtualbox (upstream one too) not creating fixed storage drives??
[20:34] <xteejx> its just sitting there at 0%
[20:35] <micahg> xteejx: seems like you found a bug, has worked for me in teh past
[20:36] <xteejx> micahg: Well I would backtrace it, bu gdb hangs
[20:37] <Book_em_Dano> Can anyone point to the wiki that discusses how to debug python scripts?
[20:37] <micahg> xteejx: Virtualbox is a shell script
[20:37] <micahg> xteejx: it's java based, so gdb won't work
[20:37] <xteejx> its not mono is it?
[20:37] <xteejx> damn
[20:38] <hggdh> xteejx: gdb fails how?
[20:38] <hggdh> oh there is the answer, just above...
[20:38] <xteejx> hehe
[20:39] <hggdh> xteejx: another option, then, it to kill it, and java should throw up a java stacktrace. Perhaps.
[20:39] <xteejx> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DebuggingJava well << thats no bloody help
[20:39] <xteejx> hggdh, it doesn't I tried that :(
[20:41] <hggdh> xteejx: what about the VBox command-line utilities?
[20:42] <xteejx> hggdh, haven't used them :S
[20:42] <hggdh> xteejx: like VBoxManage createhd ...
[20:43] <xteejx> hggdh, I can try :)
[20:43] <hggdh> yes, this would help to pinpoint the issue
[20:44] <xteejx> it worked apparently
[20:44] <xteejx> brb
[20:48] <xteejx> hggdh, had to reboot, where was I?
[20:49] <xteejx> oh yeah vboxmanage
[20:49] <xteejx> yeah that worked
[20:50] <Book_em_Dano> is there a debugger program for python that someone can recommend?
[20:55] <xteejx> hggdh, actually I chose Fixed size 10000 MB size and the cli VBoxManage is also stuck at 0%
[20:56] <xteejx> $ VBoxManage createhd --filename ubuntu --size 10000 --variant Fixed    << command used
[20:57] <micahg> xteejx: have you tried through the GUI?
[20:57] <xteejx> micahg: Yup it just hangs at 0%
[20:57] <xteejx> That wa the original prob, but cli is doing the same
[20:58] <xteejx> I suppose I can gdb VBoxManage?
[20:58] <micahg> xteejx: nope, that's a link to a shell script
[20:59] <xteejx> grrrrrr
[20:59] <xteejx> micahg: Do you have LP privileges? bug 243963...last comment
[20:59] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 243963 in firefox-3.0 (Ubuntu) "*** glibc detected *** ...firefox-3.0/firefox: free(): invalid next size (heat: 4)" [Undecided,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/243963
[21:00] <micahg> xteejx: one of the reasons we stopped asking reporters to reproduce
[21:01] <xteejx> micahg: No offense but I don't care. I don't sit here trying to help so get "f***king" and other abuse
[21:01] <xteejx> *to get
[21:01] <xteejx> Sorry micah, that's really annoyed me
[21:01] <micahg> xteejx: well, I would post a CoC link and mark the bug invalid since we don't have anyone who can reproduce anymore
[21:02] <xteejx> Pff, sometimes I wonder why we bother helping ungrateful ***** like that, but I know we have to
[21:12] <hggdh> xteejx: don't go the same way of the commenter, not worth it
[21:13] <hggdh> and lifeless already proposed this commenter to bail out of the bug...
[21:13] <xteejx> hggdh, I know mate, I'm just gonna sit down and have a fag, calm down :)
[21:13] <hggdh> heh
[21:14] <xteejx> but its like "you ungrateful *****" you know? ah well there's idiots everywhere I suppose
[21:17] <hggdh> Yes. It is almost certain you will get abuse one day, goes with the territory
[21:18] <xteejx> hggdh, I suppose so :)
[21:19] <xteejx> anyway...
[21:19] <xteejx> Any ideas on this Virtualbox problem with creating hard drives? :)
[21:20] <hggdh> give me the command as you issued, and I will try it here
[21:21] <xteejx> VBoxManage createhd --filename ubuntu --size 10000 --type Fixed
[21:21] <xteejx> oops thts wrong
[21:22] <xteejx> VBoxManage createhd --filename ubuntu --size 10000 --variant Fixed
[21:22] <xteejx> ^^thats the right one
[21:25] <hggdh> xteejx: runs here... a 20% now
[21:25] <xteejx> strange
[21:26] <hggdh> I am running VBox 3.2.8_OSEr64453
[21:27] <xteejx> 3.2.8-dfsg-2ubuntu1 - the same I assume
[21:27] <xteejx> might try an apt purge
[21:30] <xteejx> How can I get a trace on what's going on?
[21:33] <hggdh> xteejx: no, I am running upstream
[21:33] <hggdh> for whatever reason (don't really remember anymore)
[21:33] <xteejx> hggdh, I tried that one, and same thing. Will retry it
[21:39] <xteejx> virtualbox-3.2_3.2.10-66523~Ubuntu~maverick_i386.deb is all I ned to install right, I'm not missing anything am I?
[21:49]  * persia would have expected 3.2.8-dfsg-2ubuntu1 to be a more sensible version for maverick
[21:51] <micahg> persia: if you're running the OSE version, sure
[21:52]  * persia doesn't think anything else is supported by Ubuntu
[21:52] <micahg> persia: would be correct :)
[21:52] <persia> (yes, other organisations may support it *on* Ubuntu, but then this wouldn't be the right channel)
[21:53]  * micahg was just wondering if it's our bug or upstreams :)
[21:54] <persia> Most likely both (that's the usual state).
[21:56] <xteejx> hggdh, upstream version still does it :( I can't work out how to trace it
[21:57] <persia> Double-check your license: many licenses have prohibitions about too much tracing or debugging.
[21:57] <xteejx> I can say that the VBoxSVC process goes to 100% when the command is run but still hangs
[21:57] <xteejx> persia: Me?
[21:57] <persia> If you're looking at tracing a commercial product, yes.
[21:58] <xteejx> persia: How does it get fixed then if we can't trace it?
[21:58] <xteejx> :S
[21:58] <persia> Trace the Open Source Edition.  Fix it there.  Send the patch.  Hope it gets accepted.
[21:58] <persia> If you can get the 3.2.10 OSE, and use that, you can probably trace it.
[21:59] <xteejx> persia: I don't know *how* to trace it, that's the problem :( Can you help please?
[21:59] <persia> Do you want a syscall trace or a program call trace?
[21:59] <xteejx> persia: I don't know the difference
[21:59] <xteejx> sorry
[22:00] <micahg> persia: how do you trace  a java program?
[22:00] <xteejx> is the VBoxManage program Java as well?
[22:00] <persia> micahg, heh,  Interpreted languages (including bytecode interpretation) are special.  You need a language-specific debugger.
[22:01] <xteejx> its a script nevermind lol
[22:01] <micahg> xteejx: VBoxManage is a symlink to VBox which is a shell script that calls java with arguments
[22:01] <persia> A syscall trace shows all the system calls made by a program.  It's often useful for hangs, because one can see what was being done when it hung.
[22:01] <xteejx> micahg: Fopr gods sake why does everything have to be difficult when I want to do it lol
[22:01] <micahg> xteejx: try strace attaching to the java process to see what's stuck
[22:01] <xteejx> persia: I get it :)
[22:01] <persia> A program call trace shows each function call during program execution: this is often most useful for crashes, to find out in which call it crashed.
[22:02] <xteejx> persia: A call being a jump?
[22:02] <xteejx> Or pulling something in to run
[22:02] <persia> Forcing a crash during a hang (using, say, kill(1)) can be used to get program traces from hangs, but may be confusing if the hang is really a tight loop.
[22:03] <xteejx> persia: Can't do that one, it goes zombie and won't kill
[22:03] <persia> It's often implemented as a jump, but that's kinda low-level.
[22:03] <xteejx> micahg: will an strace work?
[22:03] <micahg> xteejx: should, don't know if it'll help
[22:03] <persia> xteejx, If you can't crash it, a syscall trace (using strace) is likely best.
[22:03] <xteejx> ok great
[22:03] <persia> But really, be very careful if you aren't using the open source edition.  Read the license.  make sure you can use strace without voiding the license.
[22:03] <xteejx> now which is the actual java program?
[22:04] <xteejx> persia: I've gone back to -ose now
[22:05] <xteejx> http://paste.ubuntu.com/515239/ this is the vboxmanage script that invokes createhd but I can't see what its doing
[22:07] <micahg> xteejx: that's the Vbox script
[22:07] <xteejx> I've just worked it out /usr/lib/virtualbox/VBoxManage
[22:07] <xteejx> i mean, that's where the exec resides (i think)
[22:07] <xteejx> do I run and attach to that?
[22:08] <hggdh> maybe, and this is an ELF image
[22:08] <xteejx> ELF? Isn't that the old playstation 2 format, ie. risc os?
[22:11] <hggdh> xteejx: man ELF will bring out the light ;-)
[22:11] <xteejx> lol
[22:12] <xteejx> will strace work on an ELF then? (about to find out anyway but have to reboot each time)
[22:13] <xteejx> ermmm is it meant to scroll loads of stuff REALLY quickly?
[22:14] <devildante> xteejx: "| less" is your friend
[22:14] <devildante> ;)
[22:14] <xteejx> mainly futex wait private or something along those lines
[22:16] <xteejx> the strace output is 25.6MB I ended up ctrl-c-ing it
[22:16] <xteejx> is that normal?
[22:25] <xteejx> bug 662388 filed
[22:25] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 662388 in virtualbox-ose (Ubuntu) "virtualbox-ose and VBoxManage hang when creating hard disk (affects: 1) (heat: 6)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/662388
[22:33] <xteejx> all done upstream, I just hope it gets sorted. Does anyone know how to look thru a strace?
[22:42] <xteejx> anyone at all? :(
[22:42] <devildante> sorry, idk how to do it :(
[22:54] <xteejx> :'( oh well
[22:55] <devildante> hey, don't cry...
[22:55]  * devildante hugs xteejx
[23:01] <xteejx> lo
[23:01] <xteejx> l
[23:05] <hggdh> xteejx: it would help to have the source available, so you can match the strace calls to source
[23:05] <xteejx> hggdh, we do don't we?
[23:05] <hggdh> xteejx: for VBox OSE, the source is available
[23:06] <xteejx> hggdh, I use ose
[23:06] <hggdh> xteejx: now, things start to get more complex -- you should understand what the calls do to be able to know what is going on
[23:06] <xteejx> hggdh, and that's where I'm stuck, but can learn
[23:07] <hggdh> xteejx: yes, most of the times having multiple terms open (or running under terminator, or using byobu) will help: on one window you look at the strace output, and on the other(s) you run as many 'man' commands as necessary
[23:08] <hggdh> but what it sounds like is there is a wait in there
[23:08] <xteejx> but what is it waiting for :s
[23:09] <hggdh> xteejx: heh. This is the point where lookng at the source, and understanding the system calls would help
[23:09] <xteejx> what stands out to me is the numerous no such file or directory messages
[23:09] <xteejx> I can grab the source easily enough
[23:11] <xteejx> hggdh, most of this looks like complete jargon to me, I mean obvious one like open/close are understandable
[23:12] <xteejx> the rest.... fcntl64 and the like, ermmm.........
[23:12]  * xteejx stares blankly at the screen
[23:12] <hggdh> yes, this is where 'man' starts to be your friend
[23:12] <hggdh> but something sort of jumps out of the strace
[23:12] <hggdh> I see a sequence of EAGAIN errors
[23:13] <hggdh> (reading from fd=5)
[23:13] <hggdh> sounds like the code is trying to get something back from this descriptor, and not getting it
[23:13] <xteejx> there is a lot of them
[23:13] <hggdh> now, of course, this may be a red herring
[23:14] <hggdh> IDK, and am not looking at the code...
[23:14] <hggdh> but this sounds like a good candidate for the wait you see
[23:14] <xteejx> I see what you mean a loop from 22:13:05.543297 on pid 5382
[23:14] <xteejx> read, poll write
[23:16] <xteejx> hggdh, what about all the "-1 EBADF (Bad file descriptor)"? Looks rather ominous to the untrained eye
[23:17] <xteejx> ahh I dunno, I'm totally clueless about reading this
[23:17] <hggdh> no, no biggie, it is just closing all FDs (even those not allocated -- which gives EBADF)
[23:18] <xteejx> ummmm ok
[23:18] <xteejx> hggdh, no offense but its completely wasted on me, I really have no clue about it and man pages won't help :(
[23:18] <hggdh> did you run strace with '-f'?
[23:18] <xteejx> -Ff
[23:19] <hggdh> and you did provide a '-o' also, right?
[23:20] <hggdh> like strace -ff -o vboxman <etc>
[23:20] <xteejx> I did what it said on the wiki page > strace -Ff -tt <program> <arguments> 2>&1 | tee strace-<program>.log
[23:21] <hggdh> yes, I see the different PIds
[23:22] <xteejx> hggdh, well I'd rather it stuck to what I asked but maybe not
[23:22] <xteejx> i.e. pids of what I ran
[23:22] <xteejx> not empathy, evolution and everything else lol
[23:26] <hggdh> xteejx: no, it is all there. Now, then perhaps it is better if we wait for someone with knowledge of vbox to look at it
[23:26] <hggdh> er
[23:26] <persia> xteejx, Don't despair.  Most folk find large chunks of strace output meaningless.  The key is to look for the repeated behaviours, or the behaviours right a tthe time of the hang, and then try to figure out how that maps to the code.
[23:26] <xteejx> hggdh, I'll agree with that, I'm no use heh
[23:27] <persia> Most of the time the syscalls have the precise same name as the functions in the code that call them.
[23:28] <xteejx> persia: The hang was almost straight away
[23:28] <xteejx> I know that much
[23:31] <persia> That's fine.  strace makes *straight away* seem later.  Check near the end of the output and work backwards, maybe...
[23:32] <xteejx> persia: I really haven't a clue about the output, and not going to try - I'll only get annoyed and confused but thatnks for trying to help me understand
[23:32] <xteejx> I'm off to bed now anyway guys, again thanks hggdh, persia and anyone else for the help as always! Much appreciated
[23:32] <xteejx> Night all :)
[23:33] <persia> Most of the tools are written for folks who write the tools, and so are *incredibly* low level and detailed.  We do best not to even try to understand the detail, but to try to understand broad strokes, and, above all, not to give up.