[04:11] <Muscovy> Meeting set for 03:00:00 p.m. Sunday October 17, 2010 in UTC
[06:04] <Andre_Gondim> hi, I am from Brazil, and I am a Ubuntu Brazlian translators ' coordinator, is there anything to translate in this project at launchpad?
[08:27] <MichealH> Hello Andre_Gondim
[08:29] <MichealH> Andre_Gondim: If you know bzr you can branch the lp:ubuntu-tour branch and add your countries foleder like "br" and just translate the files to brazillian :D
[08:32] <MichealH> Uhh...
[08:34] <MichealH> Uhh
[08:34] <MichealH> I have Copy and paste!
[08:35] <MichealH> Thats better :
[08:35] <MichealH> *:)
[08:35] <MichealH> I dont like copy and pasting in terminals!
[11:09] <MadnessRed> hi all
[12:07] <MadnessRed> You can now import tours :)  File > Import
[12:08] <MadnessRed> you then need to select a tour which is purely a tar archive
[12:08] <MadnessRed> the tar archive may contain more than 1 tour
[12:08] <MadnessRed> and you can select more than 1 tar file
[12:08] <MadnessRed> to make a tour into a tar file, simply right click on the folder and seclect add to archive
[12:09] <MadnessRed> The following locations are now read for tours...
[12:09] <MadnessRed> ~/.ubuntu-tour/tours, /usr/share/ubuntu-tour/tours, ./tours
[12:10] <MadnessRed> the html folder should be copied (or linked would be better) into each of those folders when the program is installed, perhaps someone who knows package management could do that
[12:11] <MichealH> Hey MadnessRed
[12:11] <MichealH> Thats great!
[12:12] <MichealH> I remember before you said you were @ Durham Univerity. I live like just down the A690 :D
[12:12] <MichealH> heh
[12:15] <MichealH> MadnessRed: I know a bit of Packaging!
[12:27]  * UndiFineD just woke up
[12:28] <UndiFineD> hello Andre_Gondim
[12:30] <MichealH> Hey UndiFineD
[12:30] <UndiFineD> hey MichealH
[12:30] <MichealH> Dis you see What MadnessRed said?
[12:30] <MichealH> Its cool!
[12:30] <UndiFineD> import'ant
[12:33] <UndiFineD> btw, I once too build a irc bot, in php
[12:34] <UndiFineD> it was encoded
[12:34] <UndiFineD> direct web interface, mysql storage
[12:36] <MichealH> Yeah Im hoping for that to ben integrated like a php TODO list ect.
[12:37] <UndiFineD> eggdrops were fun too, but that was long ago
[13:55]  * MichealH sends UndiFineD To ##fix-your-connection ;)
[14:19] <UndiFineD> har har, its not my connection
[14:20] <UndiFineD> I get logged out on auto, as i use high memory apps
[14:20] <UndiFineD> itś a kernel thing
[15:04] <MadnessRed> hi all?
[15:04] <MixCool> hi
[15:04] <MadnessRed> did my messages send earlier?
[15:05] <MadnessRed> at about 12 uk time
[15:05] <MixCool> I wasn't here at this time…
[15:09] <UndiFineD> hey MadnessRed
[15:09] <MadnessRed> hi
[15:09] <UndiFineD> yes, you told something importánt :p
[15:10] <MadnessRed> yh, I setup the tour importing and reasing tours from /usr/share/ubuntu-tour and ~/.ubuntu-tour
[15:11] <MadnessRed> when is the meeting?
[15:11] <UndiFineD> in an hour
[15:12] <MichealH> MadnessRed: Hey :)
[15:12] <MadnessRed> what speed internet does irc need?
[15:12] <MichealH> Yes, They did get to us
[15:12] <MadnessRed> hi
[15:12] <MichealH> MadnessRed: I'd say very low connection
[15:12] <UndiFineD> speed ? i was on irc in 1990
[15:12] <MadnessRed> could I run it on gprs?
[15:12] <MixCool> yep
[15:12] <UndiFineD> yes
[15:12] <MadnessRed> kk brb then
[15:13] <MichealH> There are apps for the iPhone so I guess si
[15:13] <MichealH> *so
[15:13] <MixCool> rooms is a nice app
[15:13]  * MichealH disappears (Homework)
[15:16] <MadnessRed> ok, I think it's working, 5.9s lag :)
[15:18] <UndiFineD> :)
[15:18] <webrsk> :) :) :)
[15:18] <MadnessRed> yh, it's pretty poor tbh, but at least x-chat is working
[15:40] <MichealH> I have no lag :D
[15:40] <MichealH> Uhh... I dont need to brag there...
[15:40] <UndiFineD> hehe
[15:41] <UndiFineD> just ate a few sandwiches with baked egg
[15:42] <UndiFineD> thatś my diner for today
[15:42] <MixCool> delicious :D
[15:42]  * MichealH goes back to PHP
[15:42] <MichealH> MY PHP!
[15:43] <webrsk> UndiFined dieting :P
[15:43] <UndiFineD> MichealH, what are you working on ?
[15:44] <UndiFineD> webrsk, with all that fat ? hardly
[15:45] <MichealH> A thing like StackExchange
[15:45] <MichealH> Its gonna be good :)
[15:45] <UndiFineD> I don know stackexchange
[15:46] <webrsk> UndiFined: reverse dieting then :) ha ha :)
[15:46] <MichealH> Goto askubuntu.com (Based on StackExchange)
[15:46] <UndiFineD> I am steady at 96 kg
[15:46] <webrsk> Cool :)
[15:52] <UndiFineD> k, odd site
[15:56] <Muscovy> Hello all. :D
[15:56] <MixCool> hi
[15:58] <Muscovy> We'll wait another 2 minutes for the hour to hit.
[16:01] <MixCool> k
[16:01] <UndiFineD> ouch
[16:03] <Muscovy> Andre_Gondim, Dykam, MadnessRed, MichealH, MixCool, Omega, popey, UndiFineD, webrsk: meeting open.
[16:03] <UndiFineD> o/
[16:03] <Muscovy> I'm going to follow the topics in http://openetherpad.org/mvsJQdzufr, skipping any duplicates.
[16:04] <Muscovy> First topic: applications to cover.
[16:04] <Muscovy> If you open the tour, you'll see a large list of applications.
[16:05] <Muscovy> Should we whittle down some?
[16:05] <UndiFineD> ehm whittle ?
[16:05] <Muscovy> Remove some.
[16:06] <Muscovy> More tours means more work and a scarier looking introduction.
[16:06] <UndiFineD> no I don think we need to remove topics, some sorting would help
[16:06] <Muscovy> EVen sorting would make things bette,r yeah.
[16:06] <Muscovy> Gedit doesn't need its own category, for example.
[16:07] <UndiFineD> I think the current About Ubuntu should be renamed to About the desktop
[16:08] <Muscovy> Perhaps.
[16:08] <webrsk> Yes its more the desktop and its features ..
[16:08] <UndiFineD> and the about could have its own menu entry
[16:08] <Muscovy> About Ubuntu does seems like the name of the whole tour.
[16:08] <Muscovy> Any objections?
[16:08] <MixCool> no
[16:09] <Muscovy> Ok, we'll do that then.
[16:09] <Muscovy> One sec, pulling code.
[16:09] <UndiFineD> note taking tomboy could merge with office
[16:09] <Muscovy> Yeah.
[16:09] <MixCool> gedit too
[16:10] <Muscovy> I'm not sure if gedit is too relevent.
[16:10] <Muscovy> As far as I know, most people don't use plain text editors.
[16:10] <Muscovy> I do, but almost entirely for coding.
[16:10] <UndiFineD> I use gedit daily
[16:11] <Muscovy> Hmm, we'll keep that then.
[16:11]  * webrsk using Vim
[16:11] <MixCool> :D
[16:11] <Muscovy> I think we ought to keep Wine.
[16:11] <UndiFineD> build tests could move somewhere
[16:11] <Muscovy> In my opinion, half the point of the Wine chapter is/will be to remind users to get Linux applications.
[16:12] <UndiFineD> true
[16:12] <Muscovy> Most of my family now uses Ubuntu, and they didn't understand about being able to find applications for Linux too.
[16:12] <MixCool> hm..
[16:12] <Muscovy> As in they tried Wine-ing Firefox.
[16:12] <UndiFineD> but also help new users to migrate and keep their important apps like taxes apps
[16:12] <Muscovy> Yeah.
[16:13] <Muscovy> Not sure if that category should be "continue playing" though.
[16:13] <MixCool> maybe "system" ?
[16:13] <Muscovy> I'm not sure if the administration chapter is needed. I can only think of two admin things we'll need to mention, software and users.
[16:13] <UndiFineD> getting help should move to getting started i think
[16:14] <Muscovy> System fits well as a name.
[16:14] <Muscovy> Yeah, getting help feels lost where it is.
[16:14] <UndiFineD> moving it to beginning shows how willing the community is to help users
[16:14] <Muscovy> Login screen?
[16:15] <UndiFineD> part of system i think
[16:15] <Muscovy> I'm not sure if it needs a chapter to itself, but I think it should be mentioned somewhere.
[16:15] <UndiFineD> when users see the tour, they have already loged in
[16:15] <MixCool> i think we should merge login screen with user-management or something like that
[16:16] <Muscovy> I like that idea, MixCool.
[16:16] <UndiFineD> yeah that seems good too
[16:17] <Muscovy> Ok, so rename "continue playing" to system,
[16:18] <Muscovy> rename about ubuntu to about the desktop,
[16:18] <MixCool> maybe rename "software management" to "Install software"
[16:18] <Muscovy> It covers removal and updates too though.
[16:18] <Silasle> Software management is not just installing software
[16:18] <UndiFineD> the current name is fine to me
[16:18] <MixCool> no, but at the beginning maybe we should show the user, how install basic apps
[16:19] <Muscovy> "Adding and removing softwware" sounds better, but is long.
[16:19] <Muscovy> Hmm.
[16:20] <MixCool> like Muscovy said, the new users try to install windows-apps
[16:21] <Muscovy> I guess I agree with "install software".
[16:21] <Muscovy> People generally install stuff more often than they remove it.
[16:21] <Moiso> It's ok for new users
[16:22] <Muscovy> Ok, so yes/no for renaming "software management" to "install software"?
[16:22] <Muscovy> I vote yes.
[16:22] <MixCool> we could create two articles, a new one in "getting started" called "Install software" and keep the old one on system
[16:23] <UndiFineD> that's a NO for me
[16:23] <Muscovy> MixCool: we could just mention it and link from chapter 1.
[16:23] <MixCool> hmm
[16:23] <Silasle> But should that really be in "contine playing"? it's normally one of the first things people do.
[16:23] <MixCool> sounds well
[16:23] <Silasle> Muscovy: Good idea
[16:24] <Muscovy> I agree, Silasle.
[16:24] <Muscovy> But I can't think of where to put it.
[16:24] <MixCool> the link?
[16:24] <Muscovy> System makes the most sense, but its a bit crowded.
[16:24] <Muscovy> Link the pages. I forget the exact syntax.
[16:25] <MixCool> in desktop configuration?
[16:25] <Silasle> Have there been some discussion about the menu yet?
[16:25] <MixCool> no
[16:25] <UndiFineD> no
[16:25] <MixCool> where at the first point
[16:25] <Muscovy> Maybe we'll save the menu stuff until MadnessRed joins us.
[16:26] <Muscovy> Since he's done most of the code.
[16:26] <Moiso> It's fair
[16:26] <UndiFineD> I have not tested the tour on my eeepc yet
[16:26] <Muscovy> Ok, writing freeze.
[16:27] <Muscovy> We want to try to have the English writing done by Oct 23.
[16:27] <Muscovy> Then we can focus on editing, screenshots, and translations.
[16:27] <MixCool> ok
[16:27] <Muscovy> We're definitely capable of reaching the deadline if we all do a bit before then.
[16:27] <Silasle> Muscovy: <a href="exec://tour.load_page(Tour_Chapter_id , Page number)"> Go to ??? </a>
[16:28] <Silasle> I think it was something like that
[16:28] <Muscovy> Thanks, I always forget that.
[16:28] <Muscovy> We have about 4 chapters that are finished for content.
[16:28] <Muscovy> We've got a few that need doing.
[16:28] <Silasle> When will MadnessRed come?
[16:29] <Muscovy> About something like half of them (ex: firefox) are half done.
[16:29] <Muscovy> I'm not sure.
[16:29] <Muscovy> Whenever you find a chapter that's "finished", try showing one or two people.
[16:30] <Muscovy> I've found that a useful way to make sure it makes sense.
[16:30] <Muscovy> Ironically, if you can write the documentation you can't test it.
[16:30] <MixCool> uhh strange... notification to start firefox in chapter "browser" ???
[16:31] <Muscovy> I'm not sure if we need those.
[16:31] <Silasle> MixCool: Whats so strange whit that?
[16:31] <Muscovy> SInce we only have two.
[16:31] <Muscovy> Anyways, when you have the time, look for chapters that need work.
[16:32] <Silasle> We just have one, USC notification is not working.
[16:32] <MixCool> hmm…
[16:33] <Silasle> It was some renaming that messed it up
[16:33] <MadnessRed> ah, sorry, lose track of the time, im here now
[16:33] <MixCool> hey :)
[16:34] <Muscovy> Glad you're here. :D
[16:34] <Omega> Sorry I'm late guys.
[16:34] <Muscovy> Hi Omega. :D
[16:34] <Omega> :)
[16:34] <Moiso> hi madnessred
[16:34] <Silasle> Hi Omega and MadnessRed
[16:34] <webrsk> Hello MadnessRed and Omega :) Welcome :)
[16:34] <Muscovy> So, menu orientation. Does anyone have any ideas for changing the menu?
[16:35] <Silasle> An home button that shows an page to choose chapter?
[16:35] <webrsk> Something like dashboard Silasle ?
[16:35] <Silasle> Yea, something like that
[16:35] <Omega> Hey guys
[16:35] <Muscovy> I like the sound of a software-center style page, on its own or in addition to a menu.
[16:36] <MadnessRed> how do you mean?
[16:36] <UndiFineD> could make the menu horizontal, or maybe even detachable or horizontal / vertical switching
[16:37] <Muscovy> MadnessRed: did you mean me?
[16:37] <MadnessRed> yes sorry,
[16:38] <Muscovy> I mean have a page with pretty icons and so on with large links to categories and smaller links to pages.
[16:38] <Muscovy> By pages I mean chapters.
[16:38] <Muscovy> Not individual pages. :P
[16:38] <MadnessRed> yh, that sounds good,
[16:39] <webrsk> Yes , thats pretty good idea :) ex: software center page
[16:39] <MadnessRed> just seen the new software centre page, yes thats good :)
[16:39] <Silasle> Muscovy: I love the "software center way", maybe even an small featured part?
[16:39] <Muscovy> Silasle: that would be cool.
[16:40] <MadnessRed> also the horizontal menu, how was that planned to work?
[16:40] <Silasle> Or even recommended based on usage?
[16:40] <Moiso> great idea
[16:40] <Muscovy> Anyoe have any ideas for changing the menu?
[16:40] <Moiso> How silasle?
[16:41] <Silasle> Moiso: I think zetgeist can help us whit that
[16:41] <Silasle> *zeitgeist
[16:41] <MixCool> collapse the categories?
[16:41] <Moiso> that would be great
[16:42] <Muscovy> Maybe collapse the page list for tours other than the current one?
[16:42] <Omega> Silasle: The application would need zeitgeist integration though
[16:42] <MixCool> yeah
[16:42] <Muscovy> Yeah, we've been down the road of patching things in.
[16:43] <Muscovy> Ok, so any other ideas for changing the sidebar?
[16:43] <MixCool> use app icons?
[16:43] <Muscovy> That sounds good.
[16:44] <Muscovy> It would help associate the launchers.
[16:44] <MixCool> yep
[16:44] <UndiFineD> they are in /usr/share/icons ..
[16:44] <MixCool> well
[16:45] <Muscovy> Most application icons are is /usr/share/icons/hicolor I think.
[16:46] <MixCool> the categories could get their icons from gtk-theme
[16:46] <Muscovy> By the way, thinking of menus, can we increase the text size a little bit?
[16:46] <Muscovy> A number of people, particularly over 40 had issues seeing it.
[16:46] <Muscovy> Text size in the page body I mean, since it's the smallest.
[16:46] <MixCool> isn't it the standard font.size of the system?
[16:47] <Muscovy> It feels like it's a bit smaller.
[16:47] <UndiFineD> that is part of the appearance, I have 12px everywhere
[16:47] <MixCool> hmm…
[16:48] <Moiso> why muscovy? I think it's ok the size it is
[16:49] <MadnessRed> I can see it could be a bit small, I think it should be consistent with the menu in font-size
[16:49] <MadnessRed> so that if a user increased font size, it increaes
[16:49] <Muscovy> Maybe a +/- button for font size?
[16:50] <Muscovy> I'm going to get breakfast, back in a moment.
[16:50] <MadnessRed> kk, maybe, we need it to be kept though
[16:50] <UndiFineD> better to point them to appearance instead
[16:50] <MixCool> breakfast? whats your time?
[16:50] <UndiFineD> if they have trouble reading that, then they will want to inprove readability everywhere
[16:50] <MixCool> font-configuration is at the end of chapter "desktop configuration"
[16:52] <MadnessRed> ok
[16:52] <Muscovy> MixCool: almost 9 am here.
[16:53] <MixCool> wow 5pm here :D
[16:53] <MixCool> time for supper :P
[16:53] <Muscovy> Ok, so end result, look into a "home page"?
[16:53] <MixCool> yes
[16:53] <Muscovy> I can play with some html style mockups.
[16:54] <MixCool> unity use some cool category buttons, someone saw it?
[16:55] <UndiFineD> nope
[16:55] <Muscovy> Yep, I used Unity for a few weeks.
[16:55] <Muscovy> We may have to make new icons though, because Unity doesn't have enough.
[16:55] <MixCool> I search for some screens
[16:56] <Muscovy> http://vimeo.com/15102255 is a Unity demo of mine.
[16:56] <UndiFineD> http://www.gtzero.com/unity/
[16:57] <MixCool> not really UndiFineD
[16:57] <MadnessRed> are they both images?
[16:57] <MixCool> unity is the ubuntu-netbook remix
[16:57] <Muscovy> http://i.imgur.com/0D9yu.png
[16:57] <Muscovy> A picture of a video of unity icons. :P
[16:57] <MixCool> that's what I mean
[16:57] <MixCool> :D
[16:57] <UndiFineD> ok i see
[16:58] <UndiFineD> just did a really fast search
[16:58] <MixCool> very pretty icons
[16:58] <Moiso> yep
[16:58] <MixCool> 200x200px png-format
[16:58] <MixCool> tango-style
[16:58] <Muscovy> I especially like the web one.
[16:58] <MixCool> yeah
[16:59] <MadnessRed> I'll have to check these videos after the meeting,
[16:59] <MixCool> k
[16:59] <webrsk> Cool icons , Just checked :)
[17:00] <Muscovy> Ok, so I'll do that in the next few days.
[17:00] <MadnessRed> Also, the idea of only the selected tour being open, what do people think of that?
[17:00] <MixCool> Muscovy: could you copy the icons from the system to project-directory?
[17:00] <UndiFineD> if we are to make use of unity icons, use them form the same location, not to clutter users systems with duplicates
[17:00] <MadnessRed> sorry very badly worded, only the selected tour being expanded in the menu
[17:01] <MadnessRed> will normal desktop users have unity icons?
[17:01] <MixCool> no
[17:01] <MixCool> only the netbook-remox have them
[17:01] <Muscovy> UndiFineD: but they're only installed on netbook edition.
[17:01] <MixCool> *remix
[17:01] <MadnessRed> didn't think so
[17:01] <Muscovy> I'll pull/push them in the ./images.
[17:02] <MixCool> thanks
[17:02] <UndiFineD> exactly, you can expect the tour to run on all ubuntu derivates
[17:02] <Muscovy> ./images is for images not specific to languages, right?
[17:02] <MadnessRed> also are those the default icons in the screen or are they the  Faenza icons
[17:02] <Muscovy> Default.
[17:02] <MadnessRed> kk
[17:03] <MadnessRed> so we are planning on using the unity icons on the homepage, to allow the user to select his tour
[17:04] <Muscovy> Yeah. I can probably make more of the same style.
[17:04] <Muscovy> I figure a unity icon for each category, maybe a small app icon for each chapter.
[17:05] <MadnessRed> ok
[17:05] <Muscovy> Ok, pushed Unity icons.
[17:05] <MadnessRed> ok, ill pull in after the meeting
[17:05] <MixCool> wow
[17:05] <MixCool> svg :)
[17:06] <MadnessRed> also do individual tours want mini homepages
[17:06] <Muscovy> <3 svg
[17:06] <Muscovy> Maybe not.
[17:06] <MixCool> sounds well
[17:06] <MadnessRed> not individual tours, individual catagories, sorry
[17:06] <UndiFineD> make a separate menu entry for imported tours
[17:07] <Moiso> madnessred that sounds good
[17:07] <Muscovy> Anyone like to take a topic out of the hat? :D
[17:07] <UndiFineD> - Next/back buttons in lightbox (screenshot tag) (easier with pre-index)
[17:07] <UndiFineD>   or, the code should walk the full tour, searching for shots and walk the array that way
[17:07] <Moiso> translations? :p
[17:08] <UndiFineD> what it the programmers take on this
[17:08] <MixCool> we could translate after textfreeze
[17:08] <MadnessRed> on the next/back buttons
[17:09] <Moiso> mixcool when should that happen?
[17:09] <MixCool> 23th october?
[17:09] <MadnessRed> How necessary / confusing are the back/next buttons?
[17:09] <Moiso> Ok we're almost there
[17:09] <UndiFineD> translations would happen after uds
[17:10] <MadnessRed> I mean you only view 1 screenshot at a time, then there will be text before the next
[17:10] <UndiFineD> when we have had our comments
[17:10] <Muscovy> I feel they're quit necessary. We don't have interactive progression yet, and we wouldn't be able to do it for every page.
[17:10] <Moiso> Hm..... Undifined that makes sense
[17:11] <UndiFineD> I translate to dutch where i can, but I won't promise it is done at the 23rd
[17:12] <MixCool> we need a flag, to mark finished English articels
[17:12] <Muscovy> I think translating starts on the 23rd.
[17:12] <webrsk> Not sure whether next/back button in screenshot will make user interactive.. They may be confused without reading the text of the specified screenshot.
[17:13] <UndiFineD> <!-- Finished in English -->
[17:13] <MixCool> in every file?
[17:13] <MadnessRed> I mean we risk having the user following screenshots and missing important desciptive info in the text
[17:13] <UndiFineD> true MadnessRed
[17:14] <webrsk> Agreed with MadnessRed ..
[17:14] <Muscovy> Maybe only scroll images for the current page?
[17:14] <Moiso> then what do you propose?
[17:14] <MixCool> but there's almost one pic
[17:14] <MadnessRed> I propose leaving it as it is, most pages only have 1 or 2 screens
[17:15] <UndiFineD> fine by me
[17:15] <Muscovy> Sure.
[17:15] <UndiFineD> webrsk, is typing  topic :p
[17:16] <MadnessRed> lol, one small thing is that I keep clicking "Close" on the screenshot popups to close them
[17:16] <Silasle> I'm away for supper, see you all later
[17:16] <Muscovy> Bye.
[17:16] <UndiFineD> see you later Silasle
[17:16] <Moiso> ok leave it that way
[17:16] <Silasle> Until i'm back: <td><center>Software</center></td>
[17:16] <Moiso> Bye silasle
[17:16] <Silasle> oops
[17:16] <Silasle> http://dl.dropbox.com/u/4997718/Screenshot-29.png
[17:16] <UndiFineD> MadnessRed, I have that too
[17:16] <MixCool> pretty
[17:17] <MixCool> maybe two lines?
[17:17] <Silasle> Yep 2 lines, i can give you the code later
[17:17] <MixCool> k
[17:18] <webrsk> Another way to close - > MadnessRed, you can click anywhere on that page so that it will close.
[17:18] <MadnessRed> i think that the homepage should possible have some kind of animation, like when you mouse over a catagory, something happens
[17:18] <Moiso> guys i need to leave. Must buy some milk for breakfast :/
[17:19] <Muscovy> Maybe a glow effect or something.
[17:19] <MixCool> glow is good
[17:19] <Moiso> Starting with full spanish translations on 23 then
[17:19] <MadnessRed> yh, talking of glow, the shadow for lightbox, does anyone else think it should be removed because the menu isn't shadowed and it looks a bit odd
[17:20] <webrsk> How about having Tooltips when we mouse over on a category ...
[17:20] <Muscovy> By the way, screenshot CD will be up today, since it seems we won't get any more surprise UI changes.
[17:20] <UndiFineD> MadnessRed, I have everyting shadowed, it looks good with me
[17:21] <MadnessRed> the menu doesn't darken though
[17:22] <MixCool> hmm…
[17:22] <MadnessRed> the menu stays the same light grey, where it should darken with the rest of the page, it looks a bit odd
[17:22] <MadnessRed> Also, I don't think that Home needs to be in a catagory, I think it can be a 1 generation thingy
[17:23] <webrsk> Yeah menu is kept separated from the content area ..
[17:23] <webrsk> Only content area gets shadowed on click of screenshot.
[17:23] <MixCool> MadnessRed: like in Ubuntu-Tweak?
[17:23] <MadnessRed> I don't have ubuntu tweak atm,
[17:24] <MixCool> hm
[17:24] <MixCool> mom
[17:24] <UndiFineD> yeah that is a nice app
[17:25] <MadnessRed> can't find it in synaptic of usc
[17:25] <UndiFineD> http://ubuntu-tweak.com/
[17:25] <MixCool> ah
[17:25] <MixCool> there's a screen
[17:26] <MadnessRed> I'm sure I got it from software centre or synaptic before
[17:26] <MixCool> hmm
[17:26] <MixCool> they use ppa
[17:26] <UndiFineD> MadnessRed, once installed is adds a repo
[17:27] <MadnessRed> kk, downloading at 3kb s^-1
[17:27] <MixCool> :D
[17:28] <MadnessRed> 5 min left :(
[17:28] <UndiFineD> 883 kb
[17:28] <MadnessRed> yh
[17:28]  * webrsk installing ubuntu-tweak
[17:29] <MadnessRed> I'm gonna go get dinner, i'll be back in a bit
[17:29] <MixCool> Enjoy your meal
[17:29] <webrsk> same here , dinner waiting :P brb in short
[17:30] <UndiFineD> lol meeting reces ?
[17:31] <MixCool> it seems so :D
[17:31] <UndiFineD> k
[17:35]  * MixCool back
[17:36] <UndiFineD> got me some coffee
[17:37] <MixCool> a black one?
[17:37] <UndiFineD> senseo dark roast
[17:37] <MixCool> :D
[17:37] <MixCool> an afficionado :D
[17:41] <MixCool> stupid postfix ………
[17:42] <UndiFineD> when i needed a mailserver, courier alone is much eassier
[17:42] <MixCool> hmm
[17:42] <MixCool> I use dovecot-postfix...
[17:43] <MixCool> it runs for a long time but now…
[17:43] <MixCool> it goes on the rampage
[17:43]  * webrsk is back :)
[17:43] <MixCool> wb webrsk
[17:45]  * Silasle is back
[17:45] <MixCool> wb Silasle
[17:53] <MixCool> yeah, my mailserver be back on track now
[17:54] <UndiFineD> :)
[17:55] <MixCool> there's missing a user called "spamd" for spamassassin -,-
[17:55] <MixCool> all people back?
[18:04] <Muscovy> I'm here, mor eor less.
[18:07] <MixCool> grmm... u1 doesn't sync my contacts to evolution -,-
[18:24] <MadnessRed> im back
[18:24] <MixCool> fine :)
[18:27] <UndiFineD> ok, so most of us here again
[18:27] <UndiFineD> next topic ?
[18:27] <MixCool> sure
[18:27] <MixCool> which one?
[18:28] <Muscovy> Packaging maybe?
[18:28] <UndiFineD> - packaging options
[18:28] <UndiFineD>   - install issues
[18:28] <UndiFineD>   - user tours
[18:28] <UndiFineD>   - screenshots per language
[18:28] <MixCool> k
[18:29] <MadnessRed> hm, my window buttons have moved to the right, and even more oddly that feels wrong
[18:29] <MixCool> open gconf and change it :D
[18:29] <UndiFineD> MadnessRed, you can fix that in the tweak too
[18:30] <Muscovy> I think the best way to package is to put all the code and writing together, then make it download screenshot packages, maybe for all languages on the system.
[18:30] <MadnessRed> yh, just not sure how it happened :/
[18:30] <MixCool> :D
[18:31] <MixCool> gconf /apps/metacity/general/button_layout
[18:31] <UndiFineD> by default it needs all the english lang, and their shots
[18:32] <Muscovy> I don't think the english shots should be preinstalled, for space reasons.
[18:32] <MadnessRed> I think we should have a few basic packages which include installing packages and setting up internet and getting help
[18:32] <Muscovy> I also think the screenshots shouldn't be a package, just a tarball or something.
[18:32] <MadnessRed> perhaps have a dialog on startup, would you like to download screenshots?
[18:33] <webrsk> Screenshots can be separately downloadable ..
[18:33] <Muscovy> Maybe.
[18:33] <MadnessRed> than can run the first time the tour is run, and then can be done through on of the menus later
[18:33] <Muscovy> I'm under the assumption very few people _won't_ want them though.
[18:34] <MadnessRed> yh, I think most people will want them
[18:34] <MadnessRed> but we can't download them quietly with running as root
[18:34] <Muscovy> I'm a bit worried people would not tell them to download out of unawareness.
[18:35] <Muscovy> Because that would be sneaky?
[18:35] <MixCool> could download screens to ~/.ubuntu-tour/screenshots
[18:35] <Muscovy> Too much disk space then. :P
[18:35] <Muscovy> The reason I said not a true package was because then we'd half to install them at the right moment when nothing else is.
[18:35] <MixCool> but linking them to a server is not the best solution
[18:36] <Muscovy> Dependening wouldn't work because we can't specify the ones wanted for the particular system.
[18:36] <UndiFineD> tour should work offline
[18:36] <Muscovy> I agree.
[18:36] <drcooper> i agree  too
[18:36] <MixCool> i agree, too
[18:36]  * drcooper says hi to all
[18:36] <Muscovy> I frequently use my computer in public places or at school (where wireless is lcoked D:).
[18:37] <UndiFineD> so just downloading the shots for user specified lang would do
[18:37] <MixCool> yeah
[18:37] <UndiFineD> and english is available by default
[18:37] <MadnessRed> are we going to package the user langs individually
[18:37] <Muscovy> For text?
[18:37] <Muscovy> I don't think so.
[18:38] <MadnessRed> yes
[18:38] <UndiFineD> text is so small, hardly worth the effort to pack it up separately
[18:38] <Muscovy> Pro: less frequent updates (because the langs are separate).
[18:38] <MadnessRed> I was thinking we could have ubuntu-tour-basic which is text only
[18:38] <Muscovy> Cons: installing 30ish package sis silly.
[18:38] <MadnessRed> then ubuntu-tour-lang-en which would contain text and screenshots for en, eg_GB ect
[18:39] <MadnessRed> but why would you install all langs?
[18:39] <Muscovy> Instead of screenshots/no screenshots versions, maybe just tell the program not to show error screenshots.
[18:40] <Muscovy> I think all text stuff should be installed because it's low space (especially when compressed on the CD), and because if people don't get internet to dl the files, they might have _no_ tour in their language.
[18:41] <UndiFineD> what do we have now ? 17.5 uncompressed ?
[18:41] <UndiFineD> 17.5 mb
[18:41] <MadnessRed> indeed, does that include regional dialects?
[18:41] <Muscovy> That's with screnshot surly?
[18:41] <UndiFineD> with shots indeed
[18:41] <MadnessRed> I mean as an english english person, I could cope with english us until I had internet sorted
[18:42] <Muscovy> We could probably pack variants together.
[18:42] <MixCool> example pls
[18:42] <webrsk> Now total folder is 48Mb uncompressed with screeshots and all langs.
[18:43] <Muscovy> If two pages would be the same, we inherit the plain one (ex: en).
[18:43] <MixCool> hmm
[18:43] <UndiFineD> webrsk, unselect Docs, Language, .bzr, mockups
[18:43] <MadnessRed> whats the Languages folder for?
[18:44] <UndiFineD> I made that dir to show the language packs gnome and kde use
[18:44] <MadnessRed> kk
[18:45] <MadnessRed> also for the few kb it may save, we don't need to public the .pyc files
[18:45] <MadnessRed> #publish
[18:45] <Muscovy> Bzr seems to ignore the pyc.
[18:46] <MadnessRed> kk
[18:48] <MadnessRed> So the plan is, to try and get the tour without screenshots and dialects on the cd, then get the user to download screenshots and dialects once he has internet
[18:48] <Muscovy> By the way, if we put the PPA on the team, does that mena admins or everyone can push?
[18:48] <Muscovy> Yep.
[18:48] <UndiFineD> just by packing the images separate per language we save some ~90% of space ? for 17.5 mb that would be a ~5mb base package with all language text and english shots
[18:48] <Muscovy> I'm little hesitant to say we should make a PPA which could be ransacked.
[18:49] <MadnessRed> can we make links when we install the package?
[18:50] <UndiFineD> you mean like system -> ubuntu-tour
[18:51] <MixCool> it's possible
[18:51]  * Silasle has created an dashboard
[18:51] <MixCool> Silasle: can you post a screen pls?
[18:52] <Silasle> http://dl.dropbox.com/u/4997718/Screenshot-31.png
[18:53] <MixCool> hmmm...
[18:53] <MixCool> why has it a progressbar?
[18:53] <drcooper> cool
[18:53] <drcooper> then why have the side pane
[18:54] <drcooper> the whole browsing can be done the software center way
[18:54] <Silasle> drcooper: Because it doesn't work yet :P
[18:54] <drcooper> ya...but finally
[18:55] <MadnessRed> no I mean like, could we have ~/ubuntu-tour/tours/html as a link to /usr/share/ubuntu-tour/tours/html
[18:55] <Silasle> We need category pages to link to
[18:56] <drcooper> it will list all programs with icons, right Silasle
[18:56] <Silasle> We need category pages to link to
[18:57] <Silasle> * ignore that
[18:57] <MixCool> what about this mockup (I found this in mailinglist a long time ago) https://lists.launchpad.net/ubuntu-tour/pnghhHpb1tbFk.png
[18:58] <MadnessRed> :'( why did I not spend a few more £ on a 3g phone
[18:58] <MixCool> :D
[18:58] <MadnessRed> isn't that mockup pretty much what we have
[18:58] <MadnessRed> ?
[18:59] <MixCool> but it doesn't use a nodetree, does it?
[19:00] <MadnessRed> thats because it doesn't have catagories at all
[19:01] <MixCool> hmm
[19:01] <MixCool> it used tabs and pretty icons ...
[19:02] <drcooper> the pretty icons will be there in Silasle 's model too
[19:02] <MadnessRed> if you want we could try something with only catagory icons
[19:02] <MadnessRed> without the sidebar
[19:03] <drcooper> ya
[19:03] <MixCool> hmm
[19:03] <drcooper> like in unity
[19:03] <MixCool> yeah
[19:03] <drcooper> applications browser
[19:03] <MadnessRed> ok, I have a jcr meeting that I have to go to now, but 1 sec, while I get a quick demo screenshot uploaded
[19:04] <MixCool> ok
[19:04] <MixCool> whats a jcr?
[19:04] <Muscovy> By the way, since we're sharing so many screenshots: https://launchpad.net/~muscovy/+archive/imgur-uploader/ might be handy. It's just building atm.
[19:05] <MadnessRed> junior common room
[19:05] <MixCool> ah cool
[19:05] <Muscovy> It adds a rightclick upload to files, and Ctrl-Shift S or W will upload a screenshot of the screen or window respectively.
[19:05] <MadnessRed> forgot i was on gprs, will take forever to upload, I post it in a bit, talk to you all later
[19:05] <UndiFineD> see you soon MadnessRed
[19:06] <Muscovy> Bye MadnessRed.
[19:06] <webrsk> Tc MadnessRed :)
[19:07] <drcooper> Muscovy: where does the program upload files to
[19:07] <Muscovy> Imgur.
[19:07] <Silasle> Whit everything hidden: http://dl.dropbox.com/u/4997718/Screenshot-32.png
[19:07] <MixCool> :)
[19:07] <MixCool> pretty
[19:07] <Muscovy> Quite.
[19:08] <UndiFineD> very nice
[19:08] <Muscovy> Once we get final categories, I'll start playing with icons.
[19:08] <MixCool> oke
[19:09] <drcooper> and we need a general format / rules for screenshots..are they specified as of now?
[19:09] <Muscovy> Yeah.
[19:09] <Silasle> We really need category pages  :(
[19:09] <MixCool> Muscovy: i couldn' install imgur-uploader …
[19:09] <webrsk> Cool :)
[19:09] <Muscovy> What happened?
[19:09] <UndiFineD> drcooper, i think they are specified yes
[19:09] <MixCool> i added ppa
[19:09] <MixCool> update
[19:09] <MixCool> und there's no packet
[19:09] <drcooper> UndiFineD: where? wiki?
[19:09] <Muscovy> I just threw it up a moment ago, it's not published yet. ;D
[19:10] <MixCool> …
[19:10] <MixCool> damn it
[19:10] <MixCool> :D
[19:10] <UndiFineD> drcooper, png, 800x600, need more ?
[19:10] <Muscovy> 800x600 being the recommended window size.
[19:11] <Silasle> If someone wants to try, here is the home section: http://dl.dropbox.com/u/4997718/home.tar
[19:12] <MixCool> thx
[19:12] <drcooper> UndiFineD: what about desktop settings, maybe username etc
[19:12] <MixCool> icon of office looks strange
[19:12] <drcooper> as the ubuntu-manual guys define
[19:12] <drcooper> it should be uniform
[19:13] <UndiFineD> drcooper, Muscovy is creating a screenshot cd
[19:13] <drcooper> ok..
[19:13] <UndiFineD> so we can make the shots in our language
[19:13] <drcooper> got it
[19:14] <Silasle> MixCool: Thats the office icon from unity
[19:14] <MixCool> yeah
[19:14] <MixCool> but theres missing the button and right site...
[19:14] <UndiFineD> I installed libreoffice, but it does not show in the menu
[19:14] <drcooper> btw the gnome screenshot isnt able to capture current window with border
[19:14] <drcooper> nyone noticed
[19:14] <drcooper> ?
[19:15] <UndiFineD> I recommend to load the shots cd in a vm and make the shot from the host
[19:15] <UndiFineD> so mouse can be moved away
[19:15] <UndiFineD> yet still showing context menus
[19:16] <Muscovy> What languages are preinstalled?
[19:17] <Silasle> the modified source code: http://dl.dropbox.com/u/4997718/ubuntu-tour.tar.gz
[19:17] <webrsk> Thanks Silasle :) will play with it :)
[19:18] <Silasle> You need to use the import option in the ubuntu-tour to load the home section file
[19:19] <webrsk> k k
[19:19] <webrsk> Moving out .. Take care all , good night :) :)
[19:20] <Silasle> Bye webrsk
[19:27] <Silasle> I'm off for an shower, see you in about 20-30min
[19:33] <MixCool> UndiFineD: what about "Create a team that's specialized on screenshots"
[19:34] <UndiFineD> I find it a bit silly, we need the translators for that, I could not make them for chinese ... :p
[19:34] <MixCool> :D
[19:34] <MixCool> but we need a blueprint of all screens
[19:35] <MixCool> than the other ones could use them as an template
[19:35] <UndiFineD> thatś for english i guess
[19:35] <MixCool> yeah
[19:36] <Muscovy> The "design" team could do screenshots.
[19:36] <Muscovy> As it's not doing much ATM. XD
[19:47] <UndiFineD> just call me when you have the cd up Muscovy
[19:47] <Muscovy> Sure.
[19:47] <UndiFineD> I will add some dutch shots asap
[19:47] <Muscovy> Does the CD have Dutch installed?
[19:47] <UndiFineD> don know, i have cable internet
[19:48] <UndiFineD> when it is not there i just add it
[19:48] <MixCool> should I renew the screens from about-ubuntu/en?
[19:48] <MixCool> there in jpg
[19:48] <UndiFineD> MixCool, yes, especially because of the ubuntu font
[19:48] <Muscovy> Sure.
[19:48] <MixCool> k
[19:49] <Muscovy> Yeah, a number of pngs need updates too. :P
[19:49] <MixCool> someone an updated screenshot-iso?
[19:49] <MixCool> I chould do the english and the german ones
[19:49] <Muscovy> I'll get one up. :D
[19:50] <MixCool> goood
[19:50] <MixCool> is it an up-to-date maverick with the name "ubuntu-tour" ???
[19:56] <Muscovy> It will be.
[19:56] <Muscovy> Well, I won't do updates because that might get annoying for me.
[19:56] <Muscovy> Well, I'll do theme/font stuff.
[19:57] <Muscovy> Obviously. :P
[19:57] <MixCool> :D
[19:58] <MixCool> your img uploader is nice :D
[19:58] <Muscovy> Thanks.
[19:58] <Muscovy> The code base I got from LP, the metafiles in the source link to it.
[19:58] <UndiFineD> Muscovy, another reason why i recommend vmś
[19:58] <Muscovy> I added in the screenshot thing, and changed notifications.
[19:59] <UndiFineD> if something goes wrong it does not really affect your sys
[19:59] <Muscovy> I live in the kind of world where live CDs don't make your sys mess up. :P
[19:59] <MixCool> -,-
[20:00] <MixCool> who pushed the unity svg's?
[20:02] <Silasle> Muscovy: !
[20:02] <Muscovy> Me, I think.
[20:02] <MixCool> looks like the office pic is broken in our dashboard
[20:11] <MixCool> ok… I fixed them
[20:45] <MixCool> good night folks
[20:47] <Silasle> Do we have an list of what we decided today?
[20:48] <Muscovy> That would be great.
[20:54] <Muscovy> (if someone made one)
[20:55] <Muscovy> Thanks all for attending.
[21:01] <UndiFineD> bit of a chaotic meeting
[21:01] <UndiFineD> next one on the 23rd ?
[21:02] <UndiFineD> or 22nd
[21:02] <Muscovy> Maybe that's a bit soon.
[21:02] <Muscovy> Perhaps send an email out to ask the team?
[21:03] <Muscovy> http://irclogs.ubuntutour.org/2010/10/17.txt
[21:03] <Muscovy> ^ meeting logs
[21:03] <UndiFineD> :)
[21:03] <Muscovy> http://irclogs.ubuntutour.org/2010/10/17.html for the pretty version
[21:05] <Silasle> http://piratepad.net/ZH8IXRirlF If someone want to continue.