[15:29] hi. I've noticed there is no realtime kernel in the repositories for Maverick. is this because the realtime capabilities have been integrated into the generic kernel? [20:01] persia, sorry for the delay, are you available to continue the seeds discussion? [20:03] also, for those interested, new website mock-ups, including the correct blue for persia and a dark theme for jussi ;) [20:03] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuStudio/TaskWebRevamp#Audio%20Horizons%20v2 [20:04] scroll down a bit for the dark theme [20:18] And now I know why I woke up to early today :) [20:18] s/to/so/ [20:32] for our discussion? or the website? or something else? [20:32] For our discussion, I think. [20:32] that sounds good to me [20:52] are you ready to talk about the seeds now? [20:52] Sure. [20:53] So, I just checked, and http://typewith.me/vUpaZVtuLq is still full of content [20:53] i'm sorry, were you expecting me to moderate the contents? [20:54] No, but etherpad times out after a while sometimes, and needs to be repopulated, if nobody is looking at it. [20:54] I believe that document to embed three significant things: [20:55] 1) An outline of how seeds, tasks, and metapackages are defined and interrelate [20:55] 2) documentation of the structure of the seeds, tasks, and metapackages for maverick [20:55] 3) a template to use to define the structure for natty [20:57] and one thing you took exception to was my assertion that audio-common needed to be a metapackage [20:57] my concern was a user who used a vanilla ubuntu install might apt-get install ubuntustudio-generation [20:57] Sure. [20:57] So, look at maverick. Look at "desktop-common" [20:58] Notice that it's not either a task or a metapackage. [20:58] Also notice that the contents are part of ubuntustudio-desktop task and metapackage, without being explictly in that seed. [21:01] sorry, getting kids settled again [21:03] no worries [21:03] okay, i see that desktop-common is not a metapackage or task [21:03] i see desktop: desktop common in the STRUCTURE file [21:04] but do i need to worry how a user would get desktop-common if they were were installing ubuntustudio-desktop [21:05] s/worry/understand/ [21:05] yes, i would like to understand :) [21:05] i almost *always* want to understand [21:06] So, because STRUCTURE declares that desktop depends on desktop-common, every task or metapackage generated from the desktop seed will include everything from the desktop-common seed. [21:07] hmmm, is this analogous to Depends: in /debian/control ? [21:08] No. [21:08] It's more like file inclusion in a number of programming languages. [21:09] i reread your statement again, it will include everything with it [21:09] So that the content of the desktop-common seed is added to the content of the desktop seed for purposes of generating tasks and metapackages. [21:09] not that it depends on it so it will need to be installed as well [21:09] it will already be there [21:09] [21:09] Right. [21:10] SO, when a vanilla ubuntu user wants to install ubuntustudio-desktop [21:10] it will also be installing ubuntustudio-desktop-common because -desktop-common will be included in -desktop [21:11] Rather, it will also be installing the contents of the ubuntustudio/desktop-common seed, but essentially, yeah. [21:13] okay, so audio-common does NOT need to be a metapackage or task, right [21:13] That's my opinion. [21:13] it shall be done [21:14] any other critiques of the plan? [21:14] I hadn't prepared a critique: I more imagined we'd go over what was in etherpad, and flesh out the natty bits to match what you seek to accomplish. [21:15] I can prepare a critique if you'd prefer. [21:19] i think i had more or less had things in the link i posted earlier pretty well fleshed out addressing the etherpad contents [21:19] my only concern at the time was the audio-common issue which we addressed [21:20] but of course, just because i'm not concerned with it doesn't mean i'm not doing something wrong ;) [21:21] OK. I guess my main concern with https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuStudio/Sandbox#Seeds%20Update is that I wasn't sure there was a clear picture of the end-state. [21:24] i'm not sure what you mean by "end-state" [21:25] What it looks like after all the modifications. [21:25] Might just be different ways of thinking about things. I tend to think about how it is and how it should be, rather than how it is and how it should be changed. [21:27] But nothing leaps out at me about your modification procedure, and if you've no other questions about the contents of the etherpad, we might be good. [21:32] sorry, once again, the kids are acting up [21:33] this weekend started beautifully and very enjoyably with our picnic by the lake and denigrated shortly after our return :( [21:33] to summarize the modification or the end-state: [21:33] 1. the video and graphics remain structurally unchanged, just fewer packages in the seeds [21:34] 2. audio will be dropped, but a transitional package will be included in the /debain/control file that Depends: ubuntustudio-generation ubuntustudio-recording [21:34] 3. generation and recording seeds will be new [21:35] 4. STRUCTURAL file will eliminate audio but add generation: audio-common and recording: audio-common [21:35] that at least is the thrust as i am able to focus and remember it at this time [21:36] That's a clear summary of the modifications, and matches what you've put in the sandbox. [21:37] Doesn't really summarise the result, but that's fine: I think we think differently about these sorts of things, and I'm not going to make you think the way I think just because I think that way. [21:38] oh, i think the end-state is that the user will select between the generation and recording tasks for audio packages during installation [21:38] each of those will include audio-common [21:39] video and graphic remain virtually identical for installation purposes [21:39] Oh, sure. It's the entirety of the end state that isn't documented. Really, don't worry about it. [21:39] When you get through the procedure, let me know, and I'll look at the results :) [21:40] good deal