[11:39] <thorwil> mat_t: hi! i tried to comment on the design blog yesterday, but the blog refused to take it. known issue?
[11:41] <thorwil> doctormo, vish: thoughs on http://thorwil.wordpress.com/2010/10/18/design-center/ ?
[13:33] <mat_t> thorwil: uh, not sure
[13:33] <mat_t> thorwil: what was the message?
[13:36] <thorwil> mat_t: after Submit, gets stuck on http://design.canonical.com/wp-comments-post.php
[13:36] <thorwil> saying: Permission denied: You cannot login using that server
[14:01] <mat_t> thorwil:thx, I'll let our blog guy know :)
[14:07] <rhlee> thorwil: hi, I heard you had problems commenting on the blog
[14:09] <thorwil> rhlee: yes. yesterday evening as today. name, email, link to my blog ... hit Submit, get to http://design.canonical.com/wp-comments-post.php and read: Permission denied: You cannot login using that server
[14:09] <thorwil> rhlee: coffee, bbiab
[14:14] <rhlee> thorwil: It seems to be a proplem with our servers, I'll try and get our sysadmins to look at it.
[14:32] <thorwil> rhlee: ok, thanks
[14:39] <anjoe> Hi all, i am new here. I would like to contribute to ubuntu artwork. Someone please help me to get started.
[14:45] <thorwil> anjoe: what would you like to work on, generally?
[14:46] <anjoe> thorwil: wallpapers, logos, posters etc
[14:49] <thorwil> anjoe: we currently have some organizational issues. for you that means you have to take the initiative. find a need and tackle it.
[14:50] <anjoe> thorwil: ok
[14:50] <thorwil> anjoe: you could try getting into contact with your LoCo (Local Community) team, for example
[14:50] <thorwil> anjoe: we collect wallpapers on http://www.flickr.com/groups/ubuntu-artwork
[14:51] <thorwil> it's actually not limited to photos, allthough it looks like that ;)
[14:51] <anjoe> thorwil: how can i get in touch with the LoCo
[14:52] <thorwil> anjoe: have a look at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LoCoTeams
[14:54] <anjoe> thorwil: ok
[14:54] <thorwil> anjoe: if you create something and want to share it, you could hit the ubuntu-art mailing list or the forum
[14:54] <thorwil> http://ubuntuforums.org/forumdisplay.php?s=3d0675359411f0cb0debe610b23cbbbc&f=16
[14:55] <thorwil> anjoe: regarding posters: http://spreadubuntu.neomenlo.org/
[14:56] <thorwil> you could perhaps take some existing material and improve it
[14:58] <thorwil> and never hesitate to ask questions here. though you might have to wait for answers, sometimes. that's irc.
[15:01] <anjoe> thorwil: ok. sure. thanks.
[15:01] <thorwil> np
[16:29] <vish> thorwil¦ hi.. yea, i browsed that briefly on the planet feed..
[16:29]  * vish to read again after dinner :)
[18:47] <thorwil> http://mairin.wordpress.com/2010/10/19/third-fedora-design-bounty-ninja-identified/
[19:26] <vish> thorwil ¦ what you you mean by "apply automation"  ?
[19:27] <vish> also, do you have any specific /earlier/ reasons for mentioning 'vandalism'. or just mentioning it for future?
[19:27] <thorwil> vish: automate whatever you can. reduce the number of steps required to accomplish something
[19:28] <doctormo> thorwil: If you can't fall over onto submitting your art, it's too hard ;-)
[19:29] <thorwil> vish: future. we have been lucky to see no vandalism on the wiki (only ever saw one really catastrophic edit, but rolling back is easy)
[19:30] <vish> thorwil ¦ ah! automation, i was thinking of something similar for the art-requests.. just imagine someone requests an artwork on the design hub, it immediately sends a mail to the list "Art Alert - New design needed for $foo" , or if a bug gets tagged "needs-design" a script runs daily and alerts the team ML..
[19:30] <thorwil> vish: so far i assume that requests will have to be explicit
[19:32] <vish> thorwil ¦ well ofcourse, there would be an 'approver team' , but they dont have to write a mail to the list..
[19:32] <thorwil> vish: the line "avoid and protect against flaming, trolling and vandalism" is in some way the counterweight to making things as easy and fast as possible. for example, not having to login at all could speed things up, but then you would see all those issues ...
[19:33] <thorwil> vish: perhaps we will forward some stuff to the list at first, but mid to long term, it should all happen on the site
[19:34] <vish> happen on site would mean someone has to check regularly, which is bad, since we wont be having regular requests
[19:35] <vish> and when there is lesser frequency, people loose interest
[19:35] <thorwil> vish: email notifications per account, not to the list
[19:35] <vish> thorwil ¦ what is the difference?
[19:36] <thorwil> vish: personal decision to follow/block/filter, independent of less structured things that will still happen on the list
[19:38] <vish> thorwil ¦ then how would someone notify us when they want to take up the task,[they can assign self to task] and when we cut that off, there would be less chance of followon discussion..
[19:38] <vish> we need more discussion as a team..
[19:40] <vish> thorwil ¦ it becomes more of a human task, as to taking the time to reply.. "I'll take this work" than just logging on and selecting a checkbox
[19:40] <thorwil> vish: if someone assigns themselves to a task, that can generate a notification, too
[19:41] <vish> thorwil ¦ yup, i did understand tht, but it reduces the human interaction :)
[19:41] <thorwil> vish: that's a good point, though you need to track that state explicitly
[19:42] <vish>  yea, but we just make sure that they assign themselves …
[19:42] <vish> i think this lack of human notification is one of the reasons the theme submissions on the wiki was not a bigger success
[19:43] <thorwil> perhaps
[19:43] <doctormo> vish & thorwil: considering that you're both using designhub as a reference to a possible website, are your minds made up about what tech to use?
[19:43] <thorwil> but the list hasn't see a lot of "look, i made this" or "i shall take care of this" posts, right?
[19:44] <vish> i dont recall anyone uploading a theme to the wiki and announcing it on the ML and unless someone was watching the wiki, no one knew the theme was there..
[19:44] <vish> doctormo ¦ tech.. whichever can get the work done :)
[19:45] <thorwil> doctormo: i'd like to get at least the conception done beforehand. got to know our actual technical needs
[19:46] <doctormo> Our resources look like 4 people, part time, 1 programmer, 3 design/html/production ?
[19:46] <thorwil> doctormo: aside of that, if it must be django to get others in, it shall be django if no technical reasons against it come up
[19:47] <doctormo> thorwil, vish: OK so I need to give you guys a job to do. It shouldn't be hard.
[19:48] <thorwil> doctormo: Ronnie and daker both said they will help if it's django
[19:48] <doctormo> Great
[19:49] <doctormo> First thing, wiki location: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/DesignUb
[19:50] <doctormo> I need either of you guys to put together a moc up for a level 1 website, single function. Submit art, display thumbnails and browse.
[19:50] <doctormo> Consider features in the future and leave spaces in your design for them. But don't put things like search, tags, comments etc in until level 1 is done.
[19:50] <vish> thorwil ¦ you already did a mockup right?
[19:50] <doctormo> I'll turn off my own design and just focus on code.
[19:51] <vish> thorwil ¦ the one you submitted on mizmo's blog, it was for design hub?
[19:51] <vish> oh that was Equiet !
[19:51] <thorwil> yeah
[19:52] <vish> Equiet ¦ around?
[19:52] <thorwil> doctormo: heh, i just wanted to bring up tackling it in levels :)
[19:53] <thorwil> hi daker
[19:53] <daker> hi thorwil
[19:53] <doctormo> thorwil: No long term plan needed, lets just get a step one done :-D
[19:53] <vish> doctormo ¦ designs we can look into it.. we basically dint have programmers to do the work, so the designs stalled :D
[19:53] <doctormo> vish: You have me, now how about those designs your talking about?
[19:54] <vish> \o/
[19:54] <doctormo> I need complete designs, not just mocs of simple ideas or fancy features.
[19:54] <daker> doctormo, me too
[19:54] <vish> thorwil ¦ how about we work starting with mizmo's design and complete it?
[19:54] <vish> or rather adapt it..
[19:55] <doctormo> daker: Should we set up a code base, use some loco directory code and base it?
[19:55] <daker> doctormo, we can use some LD code
[19:56] <doctormo> They use django south for transitions and openid for launchpad login. None of that would be hard to bring over, I'll set up a project on lp.
[19:56] <daker> doctormo, good
[19:56] <thorwil> a mockup i created for spreadubuntu: http://www.foopics.com/showfull/8672ade04d7cb60d6b97da1ef80ca04a
[19:57] <thorwil> vish: i don't recall there being a designhub mockup for uploads?
[19:57] <Schendje> thorwil: no, not that i know of
[19:57] <vish> she put up the sources.. i'm looking for the blog
[19:58] <thorwil> doctormo: just submitting art, with no relations, no versioning?
[19:58] <Schendje> http://mairin.wordpress.com/2010/02/13/random-idea-for-design-collaboration-tool/
[19:58] <doctormo> thorwil: Yep, nothing fancy, just a base we can work from.
[19:58] <doctormo> I see the technicals of working out thumbnails alone might take a bit of time up, so we should work on the fundermentals.
[19:58] <Schendje> http://mairin.wordpress.com/2010/03/09/another-design-hub-mockup/
[19:59] <Schendje> http://mairin.wordpress.com/2010/03/26/design-hub-update/
[19:59] <vish> Schendje ¦ thx
[19:59] <Schendje> those are all of them, i think
[19:59] <doctormo> Everyone please join: https://launchpad.net/~art-design-website
[20:00] <Schendje> doctormo: can i join? :)
[20:00] <doctormo> Schendje: Will you be doing design (mocs), programming (django) or production (html/js/css) ?
[20:01] <Schendje> design and production, if you want me to
[20:01] <Schendje> never worked with django bit html/js/css is fine
[20:01] <vish> doctormo ¦ i think you should set it to moderated team.. :)  right now no one can join if it is a restricted team..
[20:02] <vish> doctormo ¦ you would have to add members one by one if it is set as restricted
[20:02] <doctormo> refresh, I thought I changed it
[20:02] <doctormo> try again please
[20:03] <vish> hmm, still shows as restricted.. will try in a few mins again..
[20:03] <thorwil> join link is there now
[20:03] <thorwil> waiting for approval ...
[20:04] <Equiet> vish: Hi.
[20:04] <vish> Equiet ¦ hey.. looks like we have people interested in making design hub a reality.. wanna join in on the fun ;)
[20:04] <vish> ?
[20:06] <daker> waiting for approval
[20:06] <Equiet> vish: I'd like to, but I have an important deadline coming.
[20:07] <vish> Equiet ¦ np.. i'm looking into some of your earlier mockups too, so some of it might be copied over ;)
[20:07] <vish> doctormo ¦ works now, its not switched to moderated..
[20:07] <vish> err, now*
[20:07] <doctormo> https://launchpad.net/erato
[20:08] <vish> hehe, Erato ;)
[20:09] <doctormo> Everyone is activated, and thorwil your made backup admin incase I fall under a bus.
[20:09] <thorwil> heh, ok
[20:11] <thorwil> doctormo: do you know http://www.plupload.com/ ?
[20:11] <Equiet> vish: Ok, what exactly do you need?
[20:12] <vish> Equiet ¦ nah, nothing specific.. just thought i'd ping you in since you had shown interest in this earlier..
[20:12] <doctormo> thorwil: I didn't know about that, but I've got a drag/drop, pause, stop, start widget for uploads. So I know how they work.
[20:13] <Equiet> vish: Yeah, sure.
[20:14] <daker> doctormo, vish thorwil http://www.20seven.org/journal/2009/06/django-loupe-design-collaboration.html
[20:15] <doctormo> https://blueprints.launchpad.net/erato/+spec/art-website-inital-design
[20:16] <doctormo> daker: Looks good, I will look over it, can you also? We'll see what code we can take :-D
[20:17] <doctormo> So the idea is that I've put myself as drafter and driver, let me know how you'd like the project to travel and we'll make blueprints after each stage to move in that direction.
[20:17] <doctormo> At least for the first few initerations.
[20:17] <doctormo> I've split the tasks up into three main skills, please put your back into any of the parts you find fun.
[20:19] <doctormo> I believe vish and thorwil will probably do design and myself and daker will take case of code. Production can be done by anyone but Schendje seems interested in that.
[20:19] <daker> doctormo, oki
[20:21] <Schendje> doctormo: i'll gladly help with production but would also really really like to contribute to the design, i'm also better at that :)
[20:22] <vish> Schendje ¦ feel free to take part in the design too :)
[20:23] <doctormo> Schendje: It's completly up to you. Do work with the self appointed leader for that section in order for designs to have coherence. I'm sure someone will take charge of the design ;-)
[20:23] <vish> Schendje ¦ have you done any mockups already for the design hub ?
[20:23] <Schendje> vish: i think i did *something* a while back...
[20:23] <Schendje> vish: i'll dig it up, but it's nothing shocking
[20:30] <daker> doctormo, vish thorwil are we going to use a vcs as backend storage ?
[20:30] <doctormo> daker: We can't yet, it's not in our current specification. But we will make sure toleave a space for the feature later.
[20:31] <daker> oki
[20:35] <doctormo> daker: OK I have an inital branch here lp:erato  you should see code soon.
[20:35] <doctormo> daker: Do you have time to work on this with me today?
[20:36] <daker> no i am working on cloud.u.c
[20:36] <doctormo> daker: What's that?
[20:37] <daker> the new Ubuntu Cloud Portal
[20:38] <daker> doctormo, http://ubuntuone.com/p/KLs/
[20:38] <doctormo> NP, let me know when/if you have time, I want to get this first step done quickly so you may find it done by the time you do.
[20:38] <daker> oki
[20:50] <thorwil> doctormo: openid always leads to a "login as bla bla" page like on launchpad?
[20:58] <doctormo> thorwil: Yes it would, we have a choice between either directing strait to launchpad, or opening it up to any openid provider.
[21:08] <thorwil> so we can't ask for name/password directly
[21:14] <thorwil> good night!