=== Ursinha-afk is now known as Ursinha === Ursinha is now known as Ursinha-afk === Ursinha-afk is now known as Ursinha [15:00] #startmeeting [15:00] rockstar, There is already a meeting in progress. [15:01] Why is there already a meeting in progress? [15:01] #endmeeting [15:01] #startmeeting [15:01] rockstar, There is already a meeting in progress. [15:01] heh [15:01] Alright, so MootBot sucks. [15:01] I think someone need to pull HAL's memory [15:02] Hi everyone. I'm chairing today's reviewer's meeting since bac is travelling the world this week. [15:02] Who's here? [15:02] me [15:02] me [15:02] ,e [15:02] me [15:02] me, even === adeuring1 is now known as adeuring [15:02] me [15:02] me [15:03] 6 people huh? [15:03] I pinged leonardr and mars [15:03] rockstar: I can pretend to be two people, if you like. [15:03] me [15:03] EdwinGrubbs, meeting? [15:03] me [15:03] abentley, if you were on another team, that might help. As it stands, you're usually the only code guy here anyway. :) [15:04] ...and there were eight... [15:04] me [15:04] me [15:04] me [15:04] me [15:04] heh [15:04] Alright, let's not sit and wait for the folks who couldn't remember the meeting that happens at the same time every week. [15:05] Here's the past actions from last week [15:05] Sinzui to investigate making lint check for the Storm 'in' gotcha [15:05] HenningE to add a note to the PSG about the use of any [15:05] No progress yet [15:05] I suspect bac didn't finish that past action, but that henninge knows what it ends with. [15:05] I did that [15:06] bac to work with mars regarding a slow introduction of new reviewer points regarding the ArchitectureGuide. (undone) [15:06] me [15:06] henninge, hooray! You get a gold star. [15:06] rockstar: it's about the "any" function ;-) [15:06] henninge, ah, okay. Well, I guess it was a finished statement. :) [15:07] Okay, we're 1 for 3 on finishing items. [15:07] Mentat report! [15:07] So, I talked with bac and sinzui about this, but I think it's high time henninge graduates as a UI reviewer. [15:08] salgado, how's mentat life? [15:08] * henninge is excited! [15:08] going fine so far [15:09] Okay. I guess that's it for that part of the agenda. [15:09] New items [15:09] Make all reviewers a UI mentat similar to the way we do javascript reviews. (lifeless) [15:10] rockstar: do not want. [15:10] So, this is not new. It has been entirely acceptable to get UI reviews from two non-UI reviewers. It's been that way since the 3.0 work. [15:11] It's just a PITA to get wrangle more people to do UI reviews. [15:11] abentley, I am curious why you don't want to be a UI reviewer. [15:11] rockstar, do, as in, become a reviewer? [15:11] rockstar: As I understand it it's ok to get two UI reviews from UI mentats, not necessarily from non-UI reviewers. [15:11] Its a PITA to get people who want to become a full UI reviewer [15:11] there isnt a queue for this [15:11] sinzui, yes, that's true too. [15:12] rockstar: I don't want to go through another training process, I don't want to have to do more reviews. [15:12] We supposed that the JS/UI team would all becomes reviewers. Most scared to the four winds when the meeting was abandoned [15:12] jelmer, we've kinda strayed from it, but during the 3.0 work, we needed UI reviews A LOT, and so everyone became a "mentat" [15:12] rockstar: I don't think that I have especially good visual design skills. [15:12] sinzui, they were scaring that way before the meeting was abandoned. [15:13] abentley, and you have no desire to develop good visual design skills? [15:13] rockstar: I didn't know that, thanks. [15:13] rockstar: there are many things more important to me than that. [15:13] sounds fair [15:13] abentley, While I do not know your skills, I have raised a similar point with beuno. Most of use were hired for code design skills, not UI design [15:13] Anyone else have opinions? I can bring these thoughts up in the AsiaPac meeting as well. [15:14] rockstar, the way I do it now is I say "You need a UI review - as rockstar or sinzui" [15:14] rockstar, will that process change? [15:14] how will people's expectations for UI reviews change? [15:15] mars, yeah, that's a good question. [15:15] how will the way they ask for them change, and will they expect something different from their reviewer in return? [15:15] The 3.0 UI still wasn't consistent. The mentat/mentee process makes it so that we at least get a *ahem* "trickle down" affect. [15:15] different from their currently-code-only reviewer [15:16] rockstar, so you are asking, if everyone became a UI mentee, would quality suffer? [15:17] since the current process is a self-selecting one [15:17] mars, I'm not asking anything. I'm "facilitating." [15:17] :-) [15:17] mars, 3.0 did suffer by the 2-person-yes rule [15:18] We landed dozens of pages without breadcrumbs and we did not discover that until weeks later [15:19] I favour 2-person approval, but I think we still need some review to ensure we are not codifying convention as rules [15:19] rockstar, do you know what lifeless' goal was in proposing this? [15:20] mars, I think he wants every reviewer to be able to do any review. [15:21] I started to propose a similar javascript review process, but I still don't feel like we, as a team, have a good understanding of javascript, so I backed off. [15:21] ok, so [15:21] well, I assume he wants to get a higher throughput on our landing process [15:21] and guesses that this would help [15:21] gary_poster, yeah, exactly. [15:21] right [15:21] Especially since there are no antipodean UI reviewers currently. [15:21] but will it help our UI quality? [15:21] ah, that's a big deal [15:21] I do not think every engineer can be a UI reviewer. [15:22] so it is just a way to do a light check-up, and defer the "qualified" review until later [15:22] and you can land in the meantime [15:22] "can be" is a big statement, but I agree with sinzui's sentiment, if not the wording [15:23] if not for abilities as much as lack of desire to learn ;) [15:23] Alright, I'll take this discussion to the AsiaPac meeting and see what happens. [15:23] right deryck :-) [15:23] Peanut gallery, for anyone who wishes to throw peanuts. [15:24] * gary_poster eats a peanut instead [15:24] Are we on 2.6. now or not? [15:24] no [15:24] I'll ask the losas about the pqm machine [15:24] that's the last hold out [15:25] Awesome. [15:25] Anything else? [15:25] 5 [15:25] 4 [15:25] 3 [15:25] 6 [15:25] 2 [15:25] 1 [15:25] 7? [15:25] Okay, that's a wrap. Thanks for coming everyone! [15:25] thanks rockstar [15:25] rockstar: Thank you! [15:25] thanks Paul [15:26] thank you === salgado is now known as salgado-lunch === Ursinha is now known as Ursinha-lunch === Ursinha-lunch is now known as Ursinha === salgado-lunch is now known as salgado === gary_poster_ is now known as gary_poster === Ursinha is now known as Ursinha-afk === Ursinha-afk is now known as Ursinha