[00:00] <jledbetter> meeting here or #meeting?
[00:00] <pleia2> here
[00:00] <pleia2> but no doctormo :(
[00:01] <jledbetter> I'm sure any second now
[00:01] <pleia2> I guess I can just talk about some things and he can catch up if he comes by
[00:01] <pleia2> alright, so this meeting is to quickly talk about the status of learning materials and how we want to move forward with it
[00:02] <pleia2> it started out last year, doctormo put together a dozen or so classes which he released for review on his blog, all done in open office and exported to pdf
[00:03] <pleia2> then the deadly discussions happened: openoffice docs aren't translatable, as binaries, they aren't great in revision control
[00:03] <pleia2> so what format to use? and how can the format be shared between other documentation projects?
[00:03] <jledbetter> Haha. Deadly discussions.
[00:03] <pleia2> so we settled on asciidoc, but then learned -manual was using latex, and -docs uses docbook but they'll switch to mallard someday
[00:03] <pleia2> (maybe)
[00:04] <pleia2> so months and months of this, and we all got tired and bored and kinda gave up
[00:05] <pleia2> meanwhile, there are loco teams and people who still ask pretty frequently of the community if there are any premade classes they can teach at events, and we haven't been there to serve that need
[00:05] <pleia2> I think what we need to do is give up on the format discussion for now, and move forward with course-writing
[00:06] <jledbetter> Can always be ported, yes.
[00:06]  * pleia2 nods
[00:06] <pleia2> we can keep it all in revision control, so whether we use open office or latex or docbook or whatever to generate our pdfs, the originals will be available in *some* format for tweaking
[00:06] <jledbetter> Looking up asciidoc and mallard. I've used latex but not the others.
[00:06] <jledbetter> Yes.
[00:07] <pleia2> I've edited docbook and latex, but not much with the others
[00:08] <pleia2> and honestly openoffice is appealing because as a course-writer I can focus on content rather than format, and when I'm in course-writing mood that's what I need
[00:08] <pleia2> course writers shouldn't have to worry about asciidoc build errors :)
[00:08] <pleia2> (unless they want to!)
[00:08] <jledbetter> I tend to use something online so that I can get to it everywhere but can save as / make it whatever when ready.
[00:08] <pleia2> yeah, we had one guy writing his course on the wiki
[00:09] <jledbetter> That's good as long as kept in sync with the repository
[00:09] <pleia2> hmm, so courses online we may want to still have something in revision control, even if it's just a text file telling people where to find the source
[00:10] <pleia2> but I think the number of people wanting the source may be limited, since classes are essentially delivered as .pdf
[00:10] <jledbetter> A central location to find everything is good. Looks like the wiki was doing that. Could link (source) (etc)
[00:10] <pleia2> I think we just see how this goes :)
[00:10] <pleia2> hmm, yeah maybe the wiki
[00:11] <jledbetter> Agreed. I'd like to put my source somewhere everyone can get it since I do like to do screenshots, programs, etc.
[00:11] <pleia2> great
[00:12] <pleia2> so I guess we should determine what our next steps are
[00:13] <jledbetter> Well, we can hm put the stuff somewhere (our blogs, etc) and link from wiki
[00:13] <jledbetter> Just to get us going? Then see how it goes.
[00:14]  * pleia2 nods
[00:14] <jledbetter> I did notice that when I was trying to find all the OpenWeek/UserDays/DevWeek talks about X topic that I had to go through each ... word...
[00:14] <pleia2> ok, then maybe we get revision control rolling with some very simple steps on how to use it
[00:14] <jledbetter> sprint? release? animal?
[00:14] <pleia2> I guess they are sorted by adjective?
[00:14] <jledbetter> Well, I just grabbed something from launchpad last night. Is that too technical for course writers?
[00:15] <jledbetter> Adjective. That works :)
[00:16] <jledbetter> You know, part of me wants some of these topics to be "bugs" so I can find out what someone was thinking and how I can meet that need. Example: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Learning/DeveloperTopics -> Getting Funding
[00:17] <pleia2> oh, that's not a bad idea
[00:17] <jledbetter> Ah, there is a project https://launchpad.net/ubuntu-learning-materials
[00:17] <pleia2> yep :)
[00:18] <jledbetter> Still learning how everything connects :)
[00:18] <pleia2> it would also be good for people who are just using the courses and have no interest in downloading the source, they can still give us feedback
[00:18] <jledbetter> Yes. Definitely. The source view might be a little intimidating for some.
[00:19] <jledbetter> And I could see in one spot what's going instead of clicking lots of images on the wiki page to see where's what and what's where.
[00:19] <jledbetter> Would we use this to say "ok, we're starting this again"? https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu-learning-materials
[00:19] <pleia2> yeah
[00:20] <pleia2> ok, so I sorta see this all happening kinda organically, the most important step being that those who can and want to start writing classes
[00:21] <pleia2> starting with myself, since it'll be much easier for me to help new coursewriters if I've done one :)
[00:21] <pleia2> and whoever else wants to be a guinea pig
[00:21] <jledbetter> Me too.
[00:22] <jledbetter> I want to make a course. Just not sure what.
[00:22] <pleia2> I'll touch base with doctormo regarding what we can use for revision control (we can just use wiki and blogs for now), and his thoughts on bugs
[00:22] <jledbetter> Ok.
[00:22]  * jledbetter must blog more.
[00:23] <pleia2> well, that's all I really had in mind for this meeting :)
[00:23] <jledbetter> Any movement on this at UDS?
[00:24] <pleia2> I don't think so
[00:24] <jledbetter> Ok
[00:24] <pleia2> at the last UDS we had this big collaboration meeting with -manual and -docs, but that never ended up going anywhere
[00:24] <pleia2> I hate to say it, but -docs being non-committal on mallard has really been a problem
[00:25]  * jledbetter looks these up
[00:25] <pleia2> mallard is gnome's documentation format thingy
[00:25] <jledbetter> I meant -manual and -docs
[00:25] <pleia2> ah
[00:25] <pleia2> yeah so the -docs team is what does all the official docs in ubuntu
[00:26] <pleia2> -manual is ubuntu-manual.org, they printed a book of documentation for lucid, it was pretty impressive, tons of new contributors, made contributing easy
[00:27] <pleia2> there was a lot of bad blood between the two teams because it seemed to be a lot of duplication of effort
[00:28] <jledbetter> Well, the weird thing is all I can find is the manual team.
[00:28] <jledbetter> Hm, I can see how there'd be duplication
[00:28] <pleia2> https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-manual
[00:29] <jledbetter> Looks like they have their "code" on launchpad and using bugs.
[00:29] <pleia2> yeah
[00:30] <jledbetter> Seems to be working for them so that's good.
[00:30] <pleia2> I had actually forgotten about that
[00:31] <jledbetter> Hm.
[00:33] <jledbetter> Yes, not there. Ok, I also suggest having a link to the format we should use (not doc but practicals, etc) on the wiki too.
[00:33] <pleia2> oh yeah, that link I never can find and have to search everywhere for
[00:33] <pleia2> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Learning/CourseLayout
[00:33]  * pleia2 scrolled up to find it
[00:33] <jledbetter> And this is the one with the most finished ones: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Learning/SystemAdminTopics
[00:34] <pleia2> ugh, I hate the new wiki theme
[00:34]  * pleia2 switches back to default
[00:35] <jledbetter> You tried out light?
[00:35] <pleia2> yeah
[00:35] <pleia2> fixed width makes babies cry :(
[00:35] <pleia2> actually I'm probably just being old and change-hating
[00:36] <jledbetter> I like fixed width but folks here are changing my mind for these type of sites ;)
[00:36] <jledbetter> types
[00:36] <jledbetter> Long day.
[00:36] <pleia2> admittedly I have fixed-width sites, but on things like wikis it just means the space to edit is tiny
[00:37] <pleia2> jledbetter: you coming out to mt view tonight?
[00:37] <jledbetter> Nope. Flight fell through. Maybe next Thursday. Mutter.
[00:37] <pleia2> ok, don't tell anyone, I think my siamese just claimed the california cds for her own
[00:38]  * pleia2 eyes cat in box
[00:38] <jledbetter> That can't be comfortable.
[00:38] <pleia2> she loves boxes
[00:39] <jledbetter> Does she love warm things too?
[00:39] <pleia2> yeah
[00:40] <jledbetter> My Siamese did too. Including the hood on the fish tank. Never fel/l in thou
[00:40] <pleia2> oh wow
[00:40] <pleia2> hehe
[00:40] <jledbetter> speaking of cats. Cat on keyboard moment.
[00:40] <pleia2> ok, I updated the Materials page to link to layout
[00:40] <jledbetter> Great, thank you :)
[00:41] <pleia2> it would probably be good to link to a demo course too, I feel like a goofball linking to doctormo's year old blog post for such a thing
[00:41] <pleia2> maybe something on the wiki so it's more accessible than having to download pdfs
[00:42] <jledbetter> Can link to one of his blog posts for now and then to something newer when you have it. Just so that we're designing similarly. Also, helps poke the inspiration fire.
[00:43] <jledbetter> I can tell someone that does graphics did this wiki page :D
[00:43] <pleia2> yea, that's doctormo :)
[00:44] <pleia2> he's amazing with this stuff
[00:44] <jledbetter> The two kinds of course materials is still confusing me a little but I think examples will help there too.
[00:44] <pleia2> yeah I think I'll have to nudge him about that description, it's not altogether clear to me either
[00:46] <jledbetter> Yeah, looking at the Background Topics and Classroom Topics in SystemAdmin and it's not helping me. Hopefully a new description will help firm it up in my head.
[00:46] <jledbetter> And what "drafter" means ;)
[00:47] <pleia2> yeah that
[00:47] <pleia2> :)
[00:47] <pleia2> ok, added a link to doctormo's command line basics class as an example
[00:47] <jledbetter> Maybe it goes back to the doc formating discussions.
[00:47] <jledbetter> Great
[00:48] <pleia2> yeah I'm not sure
[00:52] <jledbetter> Only 29 members? That seems low.
[00:52] <pleia2> this team?
[00:52] <jledbetter> Yes
[00:53] <pleia2> yeah
[00:53] <pleia2> people expire and don't return, plus we've been kinda lame about actually doing courses so not many have joined latelyh
[00:54] <jledbetter> Ah, ok. It'll improve then :)
[00:55] <pleia2> yeah, I hope so :)
[04:17] <doctormo> pleia2: Ah hell, I just woke up :-(
[04:22] <doctormo> OK so I've read the back ground, I think you're right about everything, nothing to correct.
[04:22]  * doctormo kicks evolution in the balls
[04:53] <pleia2> I love being right about everything
[05:32] <jledbetter> Hehe
[06:12] <nigelb> pleia2: now I know the origins of the 'p' - Princess!