[13:42] <scott-work> pesia: is it too late for the ubuntu studio blueprint Brian had made?
[13:51] <persia> No.  Do you need it discussed at UDS?
[13:51] <persia> (and which blueprint?)
[14:22] <scott-work> https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/multimedia-platform-n-pro-audio-secured
[14:23] <scott-work> persia: i don't know if it *needs* to be discussed at UDS
[14:26] <persia> Oh, it probably ought be discussed.  The "Brian" confused me.
[14:26] <persia> Anyway, seems to be scheduled for UDS.
[14:26] <persia> You probably want to push for the specification to be written :)
[14:27] <persia> And you probably want to try to make the session, if you can (remotely, so IRC+audio stream).
[15:12] <scott-work> persia: sorry for the late reply, work it keeping me busy lately
[15:12] <scott-work> i am woefully inexperience with blueprints, UDS's, and specifications
[15:13] <scott-work> who would nominally work up the specification?
[15:13] <scott-work> are there examples that might be used?
[15:13] <scott-work> where can i find out when this is scheduled so I know how much time is left?
[15:18] <persia> There are three people associated with each blueprint: an Approver, a Drafter, and an Assignee..
[15:19] <persia> The Approver is responsible for determining when a blueprint is Approved: this switches the responsible person from the Drafter to the Assignee.
[15:20] <persia> The typical workflow is that some Registrant files the blueprint, the Drafter writes up a Specification (see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SpecTemplate ), the Approver approves it, and the Assignee coordinates the implementation.
[15:20] <persia> Blueprints may be scheduled for Sprints.  UDS is a Sprint.  You can see UDS schedules at summit.ubuntu.com
[16:15] <scott-work> persia: i found that it is scheduled for Tuesday
[16:16] <scott-work> i also found the ubuntu studio specification: https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/ubuntustudio
[16:16] <scott-work> i can use that as an example
[16:16] <persia> heh, indeed.
[16:16] <scott-work> normally i would presume that I would be the "approver"?
[16:17] <persia> For stuff that would significantly change how Ubuntu Studio behaves, I'd hope so, or at least that you implicitly trust the approver.
[16:17] <scott-work> but i suggest that i might also be involved in the drafting as well
[16:20] <scott-work> it looks like daniel and luke are subscribed as well to the blueprint
[16:21] <scott-work> and assuming that they both will be at UDS-N then i feel relieve as this probably will not turn out to be completely useless without intervention
[16:21] <persia> The Drafter is responsible for coordinating drafting, and usually does the first draft.  The Specification is intended to be the result of collaboration.
[16:35] <scott-work> persia: i'll take some time from work this afternoon, sequester myself in an unused meeting room with white board, and work something up for a draft
[16:35] <scott-work> hopefully, i can convince others to look over it and improve it over the weekend
[16:36] <scott-work> persia: if there are any key bullet point items you would like to see addressed i would greatly appreciate those
[16:36]  * scott-work has so much going around in his head currently that i can't even begin to formulate a direction or specific concerns currently
[16:37] <persia> Main thing I'd like offthe top of my head is no-thought-required pulse/jack integration
[16:37] <scott-work> that is the only thing that i thought of previously and feared i was missing many other ideas LOL
[16:37] <persia> But I'm planning to attend the session and watch the implementation, and will probably make lots of points (some completely wrongheaded) along the way.
[16:38] <scott-work> but my understanding was that it would take further tinkering by pottering/upstream in pulse audio to properly integrate them
[16:38] <persia> I'm a little uncomfortable with autostart-jack-when-detect-audio-interface-on-the-firewire-network
[16:38] <persia> But that needs more discussion, more than anything else.
[16:38] <scott-work> i hope that i am incorrect and that we have the capacity to further the integration fully
[16:38] <persia> Sure, needs some upstream tinkering, but diwic might be happy to do some of that.
[16:39] <scott-work> who is diwic?
[16:40] <persia> https://launchpad.net/~diwic (the Registrant for the spec)
[16:41] <scott-work> Oh
[16:41]  * scott-work presents an embarassed grin for all to see
[16:41] <scott-work> for some reason i thought "brian" had create the blueprint
[16:42] <persia> Hence my 'The "Brian" confused me' at 13:27 :)
[16:45] <scott-work> yes, i realize that now, at the time it confuses me :P
[16:46] <scott-work> s/confuses/confused
[16:46] <scott-work> my larger concern was that the blueprint wasn't focused and my lack of attention would leave the work at the sprint unfocused and therefore not as productive as it could be
[16:52] <persia> UDS isn't a hackfest: it's just talk.
[16:52] <persia> Having a focused agenda for a spec helps, but unfocused ones happen sometimes, and sometimes end up with good results.
[16:52] <persia> Really depends on the subject and who is present.
[16:53] <persia> My main concern is that the work that diwic clearly wants to do oughtn't adversely affect Ubuntu Studio.
[16:53] <scott-work> heh, my ignorance shines again :P
[16:54] <scott-work> well, that makes me feel better then :)
[16:54] <scott-work> i'll still take some time later today and work on it a little then
[19:05] <astraljava> I'm beginning to like PPAs less and less as days go by. People have genuine trouble interpreting the nature of them vs. official repositories.
[19:06] <persia> I liked PPAs for about 3 months, when they were only available to members of ~ubuntu-dev and didn't actually protect against shooting yourself in the foot (wrong versions were OK, etc.)
[19:07] <persia> Now that they are functional third-party release archives, I have the same feeling about them as I have for e.g. getdeb.
[19:07] <persia> (the main bit being: "Why not work as *part* of Ubuntu?")
[19:08] <astraljava> Yeah. It's bad enough with all different flavours and derivatives and what have you, but now it feels like people are separating _inside_ ubuntu.
[19:09] <persia> I tend to think of flavours as an opportunity to collaborate.
[19:09] <persia> But I dislike most derivatives (the exceptions being Sabily, Ichthux, and gNewSense: all because they have very good reasons to be out-of-archive, and otherwise play well).
[19:10] <persia> And I just don't see the point of folks who have out-of-archive repos that aren't also Ubuntu developers.
[19:10] <persia> Things like the various browser every-browser-release-every-Ubuntu-release-automatic-backports repos make some sense.
[19:11] <persia> As do some of the test-this-weird-feature-before-I-upload ones.
[19:11] <persia> But the vast majority just seem to be invitations to *not* contribute to Ubuntu.
[19:11] <astraljava> I hear ya.
[23:52] <TheMuso> I agree with the above re PPAs. For me, they are only useful for testing/provide daily builds from upstrea for testing. In the Vinux project, we use PPAs because some changes that are made are not yet archive worthy, but hopefully will eventually be.
[23:53] <persia> What is Vinux?
[23:54] <TheMuso> persia: Its an ubuntu derivative focusing on accessibility. It was started by someone else in the community, but I am now using it as a testing ground for new accessibility integration work, so once its ready in vinux, we can then move it to Ubuntu proper.
[23:54] <TheMuso> ...Unfortunately some of the things the community have done with that project are aweful, aweful, aweful hacks.
[23:55] <persia> heh.  It's so sadly that way for derivatives sometimes.
[23:55] <persia> makes me like flavours even more every day.
[23:55] <TheMuso> Yeah, with time though, i intend to fix those hacks.
[23:56] <persia> But it might be worth getting the Vinux folk in touch with the LP folk: there's some work ongoing to make first-class derivatives in certain cases, which should ease merging (in-LP MoM equivalent stuff).
[23:57] <TheMuso> Hrm ok, the vinux folk currently use remastersys/whatever else out there to remaster an existing live CD.
[23:58] <TheMuso> SO I wonder in what way LP and official derivitives will solve image creation, if at all.
[23:58] <persia> Won't do a thing for image creation.
[23:58] <TheMuso> Right.
[23:58] <TheMuso> I suspected as much.
[23:58] <persia> Will provide for per-package bug tracking, and remix/derivative distinctions, and archive concentrations, etc.
[23:59] <persia> Depends on how much is in the PPA: getting it out of PPA and into the "Vimux Repository" has brand value, if nothing else.
[23:59] <persia> (course, all this is *well* off-topic here :) )