[10:21] <bilalakhtar> So ben is back?
[10:23] <nisshh> bilalakhtar, he said on the ML he will check in on Monday, supposedly he has finished exams
[10:23] <bilalakhtar> hmm
[10:24] <bilalakhtar> I read that mail
[10:25] <nisshh> bilalakhtar, so why do you sound not convinced?
[10:25] <bilalakhtar> since he told me a week aho that it would be another 2 weeks for his xams to finish
[10:25] <bilalakhtar> *exams
[10:26] <bilalakhtar> was surprised to see his mail
[10:26] <nisshh> bilalakhtar, heh, maybe he was just saying 'about' two weeks ;)
[10:26] <bilalakhtar> From his tone it seemed like he hates manual stuff
[10:27] <bilalakhtar> since the other day he said so
[10:27] <nisshh> bilalakhtar, i think that's sarcasm
[10:27] <bilalakhtar> He kept blogging on OMG! during exams
[10:27] <bilalakhtar> nisshh: yup it is
[10:27] <nisshh> blogging doesnt take up nearly as much time as manual stuff
[11:51] <Hannie> In Tex Live: Overfull \hbox and Underfull \hbox. What does this mean?
[11:51] <Hannie> I suppose the text is too long, but underfull?
[20:48] <humphreybc> Who's around?
[20:48] <nisshh> yo humphreybc :)
[20:50] <humphreybc> sup
[20:50] <humphreybc> I just mailed the list
[20:50] <humphreybc> you're up early
[20:51] <nisshh> humphreybc, no, im up late :)
[20:51] <humphreybc> ha
[20:51] <humphreybc> what time is it?
[20:51] <nisshh> 3:51am
[20:51] <humphreybc> nice
[20:51] <nisshh> and i have college tomorrow :)
[20:51] <humphreybc> almost 9am here
[20:52]  * humphreybc is in the future, as usual
[20:52] <nisshh> lol
[20:52] <nisshh> humphreybc, i just had the most awesome thing happen
[20:52] <nisshh> i was trying out vendetta online
[20:52] <nisshh> a guy goes: so what OS are we all using?
[20:52] <nisshh> one guy: windows
[20:52] <nisshh> 3 guys: mac
[20:53] <nisshh> then 40+ people: Ubuntu
[20:53] <humphreybc> hahaha
[20:53] <humphreybc> wicked
[20:53] <humphreybc> yeah Ubuntu's pretty well known now
[20:53] <nisshh> i was like "WOOO!" :)
[20:53] <nisshh> yeah
[20:53] <humphreybc> I've actually mentioned it to people around campus, and even though they aren't using it, they're like "oh yeah, i've heard of that"
[20:53] <nisshh> oh wow
[20:54] <nisshh> im starting to see it more too
[20:54] <Muscovy> I'm starting to run into more people who've heard of it too.
[20:54] <nisshh> my dads mate has one of those linux based media things that you plug into your TV
[20:54] <humphreybc> too bad releases don't get more mainstream attention
[20:54] <humphreybc> engadget's article for maverick was shithouse
[20:54] <nisshh> i didnt see it
[20:55] <nisshh> what kind of crap did they say?
[20:55] <humphreybc> they got it from a tip off, for pete's sake
[20:55] <humphreybc> lemme find it
[20:55] <nisshh> a tip off?
[20:55] <humphreybc> yeah
[20:55] <humphreybc> ie someone emailed them and reminded them it was out
[20:55] <humphreybc> they didn't even know :)
[20:55] <Muscovy> I've tried unsuccessfully to get the CBC's tech show to talk about the last 2 Ubuntu releases.
[20:56] <Muscovy> Ah well, maybe Natty.
[20:56] <nisshh> hehe
[20:56] <nisshh> humphreybc, is it this one: http://www.engadget.com/2010/10/10/ubuntu-10-10-maverick-meerkat-officially-released-get-your-cl/
[20:56] <humphreybc> yup
[20:57] <humphreybc> it's a fairly lackluster post
[20:57] <nisshh> yeah
[20:58] <nisshh> "more of the same" bah!
[20:58] <Muscovy> "software purchase support might legitimize Ubuntu as an app platform" makes it sound like we've got 12 apps or something.
[20:58] <humphreybc> little do they know we have 1
[20:58] <Muscovy> I meant apps in general.
[20:58] <Muscovy> But yeah, that department is a little empty.
[20:58] <Muscovy> Well, very.
[20:58] <nisshh> hehe
[20:59] <nisshh> well, 2 now :)
[20:59] <humphreybc> you'll see some of our games in there soon :P
[20:59] <nisshh> yeah
[20:59] <nisshh> saw the post
[20:59] <nisshh> post's
[20:59] <humphreybc> you guys read the email i just sent to the list?
[21:00] <nisshh> just looking now
[21:01] <nisshh> humphreybc, if you read the mail i sent to the list, thorwil mentioned in a reply that the title page for maverick was done and in trunk
[21:01] <humphreybc> yup
[21:01] <nisshh> ive been asked by translators all week when will writing freeze happen
[21:02] <nisshh> i keep having to tell them, soon
[21:02] <nisshh> i havent had a chance to do a glossary sweep yet either
[21:02] <nisshh> i have had three of my own projects to work on
[21:03] <nisshh> and my own manual team to lead :)
[21:03] <humphreybc> lol
[21:03] <nisshh> yep, im a busy man now :)
[21:04] <humphreybc> welcome to the club!
[21:04] <nisshh> hehe
[21:04] <nisshh> ive been mingling with the Canonical guys and other people a lot too
[21:04] <humphreybc> awesome
[21:05] <nisshh> i have been talking to jono, jcastro, micahg, etc :)
[21:05] <nisshh> akgraner
[21:05] <humphreybc> that's awesome Ryan
[21:05] <nisshh> yeah
[21:05] <nisshh> did my own session at App Week too :0
[21:05] <humphreybc> mint
[21:06] <nisshh> what?
[21:16] <daker> hi
[21:16] <Muscovy> Hello.
[21:20] <daker> humphreybc, you didn't send those changes :)
[21:21] <humphreybc> daker: will get onto it this week
[21:21] <daker> oki
[21:21] <daker> btw we need to know who is going to host the new website
[21:22] <humphreybc> yeah
[21:22] <humphreybc> kevin or josh
[21:22] <daker> ok
[21:23] <daker> i don't know if we can ask canonical to host it
[21:23] <humphreybc> maybe but doubt it
[21:23] <Muscovy> What does the hosting entail? Does it just need LAMP?
[21:24] <daker> Muscovy, django
[21:24] <daker> +lamp
[21:34] <godbyk> daker: josh said he could host the django part on his server.  I was going to host the static files on my server to help offload some of the bandwidth.
[21:34] <godbyk> django hates me on my server right now.
[21:34] <daker> oki
[21:34] <godbyk> I could set up a VPS with my host, too, but it costs extra.
[21:35] <humphreybc> if josh can host it for now, that's great. we might be able to pull enough money off donations for hosting eventually
[21:35] <humphreybc> godbyk: you read the email I sent to the list?
[21:38] <godbyk> humphreybc: yep
[21:38] <humphreybc> sweet, whaddyou think?
[21:40] <godbyk> I'd love to see some activity on the project again.
[21:40] <humphreybc> that's a very diplomatic answer
[21:41] <godbyk> I think I'll have to define my role a bit better, especially with regard to boundaries -- what I will and won't do -- as my time is a bit more limited than it was during the first release.
[21:41] <humphreybc> indeed
[21:43] <godbyk> I'm happy to continue the hosting that I can do (I still don't know why django is giving my so many headaches), to manage the release of the PDFs and Lulu books, to handle building things (I need to fix the build scripts), and to work on the LaTeX code and book design, but I will probably have to leave most of the editing and writing to others.
[21:43] <daker> ah thanks godbyk  coze i forgot lulu links :)
[22:19] <dutchie> humphreybc: i looked at setting it up, and it turned out to be a bit of a pain to separate out the static and dynamic hosting
[22:19] <dutchie> university is also insanely busy
[22:20] <humphreybc> hm ok
[22:20] <humphreybc> this could be an issue
[22:20] <humphreybc> we could host it on Ohso's server mayhaps
[22:22] <godbyk> dutchie: do the static files take up a lot of space/bandwidth?  (I assume it's still easy to redirect the PDF downloads to a url on my server, right?)
[22:23] <dutchie> godbyk: i haven't had a chance to look at it
[22:23] <godbyk> dutchie: fair enough. I'm in the same boat. :)
[22:23] <dutchie> what's the bandwidth requirement been like?
[22:23] <godbyk> good question. let me see if I can find an answer.
[22:24] <daker> godbyk, yep you can host the static files & the pdfs too
[22:24] <godbyk> wow
[22:24] <godbyk> from the 16th to the 23rd, I have the following stats:
[22:25] <godbyk> ubuntu-manual.org - 170 MB/day
[22:25] <godbyk> builds.ubuntu-manual.org - 24 MB/day
[22:25] <godbyk> files.ubuntu-manual.org - 3030 MB/day
[22:25] <humphreybc> heh
[22:25] <daker> Wow
[22:25] <humphreybc> omgubuntu.co.uk serves up about 25GB a day
[22:26] <godbyk> all the other *.ubuntu-manual.org sites have negligible traffic.
[22:27] <Omega> Speaking of omgubuntu, it was down a minute ago
[22:28] <daker> humphreybc, i guess you are nor using a cache system that's why
[22:28] <humphreybc> Omega: moving to a new server (yet again) next weekend
[22:28] <humphreybc> daker: we have some pretty intense optimization going on
[22:29] <humphreybc> we're just getting so many freakin' page views
[22:29] <godbyk> well, files.ubuntu-manual.org is primarily serving the PDFs of the manual.
[22:32] <dutchie> godbyk: if there's no significant increase then there is no need to split stuff up
[22:33] <godbyk> dutchie: doesn't matter much to me. (I don't know how daker's new site compares in terms of size/bandwidth requirements.)
[22:33] <dutchie> i will set it up when i have more than 5 minutes at a time free
[22:33] <godbyk> dutchie: I'm happy to continuing hosting whatever I can to help out.
[22:33] <godbyk> dutchie: no problem.
[22:34] <dutchie> i have 100GB/mo bandwidth basically none of which i use
[22:36] <Omega> dutchie: You could host a mirror repository/help a project with downloads (I believe kubuntu was in need)
[22:36] <dutchie> well, i'm about to start hosting u-m
[22:36] <humphreybc> yeah
[22:36] <dutchie> the problem with mirrors is that my disk space is limited
[22:36] <humphreybc> godbyk could host a mirror
[22:36] <dutchie> i used to mirror the ubuntu uk podcast
[22:36] <Omega> Ah, yeah that could be a problem
[22:36] <humphreybc> we could appeal for mirrors too
[22:37] <Muscovy> I have hosting I could volunteer, but I can't get ssh access to add django.
[22:38] <godbyk> the biggest 'problem' is that we're going to be using django.
[22:38] <dutchie> i can do django when i have a chance
[22:38] <godbyk> I could setup a VPS through my hosting company (with 'unlimited' bandwidth/disk space), but it costs extra.  and the costs depend on how much memory+cpu you require.
[22:38] <Muscovy> What pages use it? Is it all or just stuff like the bug reporter?
[22:38] <dutchie> there are about 3 different django instances running off my vps, so it's fine
[22:39] <dutchie> i know what i'm doing, more or less
[22:39] <dutchie> i just need a time when i can do it :)
[22:39] <humphreybc> godbyk: how much extra?
[22:40] <humphreybc> godbyk: is your server a shared one/
[22:40] <humphreybc> or dedicated?
[22:40] <Omega> You probably don't need a dedicated server.
[22:41] <godbyk> humphreybc: http://www.dreamhost.com/vps-pricing.html
[22:41] <godbyk> humphreybc: I have a shared server right now.
[22:41] <humphreybc> I dunno if we can do $15 a month
[22:42] <Omega> godbyk: How has dreamhost been for you?
[22:42] <humphreybc> we're moving all of our ohso sites away from dreamhost
[22:42] <Omega> Good
[22:42] <Omega> Dedicated?
[22:42] <humphreybc> VPS for now
[22:42] <godbyk> Omega: It's been okay. It's had its ups and downs. But since I'm not serving a lot of mission-critical stuff, it's worked pretty well for my needs.  It's been really solid the past year or so.
[22:42] <humphreybc> no need for dedicated just yet
[22:43] <Omega> I would advise against a dedicated
[22:45] <godbyk> btw, here are the numbers on the lulu book purchases:
[22:45] <godbyk> 8709550	Getting Started with Ubuntu 10.04 -- Print	131
[22:45] <godbyk> 9121535	Ξεκινώντας με το Ubuntu 10.04 -- Print	3
[22:45] <godbyk> 9148542	Erste Schritte mit Ubuntu 10.04 -- Print	13
[22:45] <godbyk> 9235313	Getting Started with Ubuntu 10.04 - Second Edition -- Print	25
[22:45] <humphreybc> neat
[22:45] <humphreybc> we should add a couple of dollars to the price to help cover hosting costs
[22:45] <humphreybc> they're like $7 at the moment right?
[22:46] <dutchie> humphreybc: i think we should have a "dirt cheap" version and one with a small markup
[22:46] <humphreybc> ok
[22:46] <dutchie> ubuntu philosophy and all that
[22:46] <humphreybc> and point people to which one by default?
[22:46] <dutchie> i'd say the marked up one, but make it clear that there is a cheaper option
[22:47] <humphreybc> ok
[22:47] <godbyk> the second edition is $9.70, for example. (the others are similarly priced.)
[22:47] <humphreybc> we can do that
[22:49] <godbyk> lulu takes 20% off the net profit typically.
[22:50] <humphreybc> ah that's a pain
[22:50] <godbyk> so if the book is 9.70 minimum cost and we sell it for 12.00, we get 1.84 and lulu gets 0.46.
[22:53] <humphreybc> hm
[22:53] <humphreybc> what do you think?
[22:53] <humphreybc> if we offer a cheap one
[22:53] <humphreybc> it should be fine
[22:56] <godbyk> As long as there are links to both and they're clearly marked (one is the at-cost version, the other is the 'donate' version). and we'd have to make it clear as to what the money is for.
[22:57] <humphreybc> sure
[22:57] <dutchie> how would we deal with getting the donations to people paying for hosting fairly?
[22:58] <godbyk> dutchie: I can mail you a crisp new American dollar bill if you like. ;-)
[22:59] <dutchie> 63.8 pence
[22:59] <godbyk> Shut up.
[22:59] <dutchie> that will buy me one largish chocolate bar
[22:59] <dutchie> sort of mars duo range
[22:59] <godbyk> Doesn't buy a largish anything here.
[23:00] <godbyk> (Though our definitions of 'large' may vary -- especially when it comes to candy bars!)
[23:00] <dutchie> well, yeah
[23:00] <dutchie> in this case, "largish" means the second smallest size
[23:02] <godbyk> gotcha
[23:02] <dutchie> i need to buy some coffee
[23:02] <dutchie> but tesco's closed 2 minutes ago :(
[23:04] <godbyk> no candy bars for you!
[23:04] <dutchie> no :(
[23:38] <daker> oki i'll call it a day
[23:38] <daker> see y
[23:38] <godbyk> see ya, daker
[23:38] <humphreybc> see ya
[23:39] <daker> humphreybc, i need you to prepare something for me
[23:39] <humphreybc> daker: yep, I will
[23:39] <daker> for the website
[23:39] <humphreybc> can
[23:39] <humphreybc> can you please email me the instructions to get it working again to test
[23:39] <humphreybc> I did a fresh install
[23:39] <humphreybc> so no longer have it
[23:39] <daker> ok
[23:39] <daker> not now i'll do it tomorrow at work