[00:04] <IdleOne> going to forward ts2 to ##fix_your_connection :)
[00:04] <IdleOne> hehe
[00:20] <bazhang> well somehow I was deactivated in #ubuntu (script fail or other) after going +o there to remove the few quiets I could see; the ones from ubottu I cannot find even after searching from the banlist 3 times
[00:22] <bazhang> I'd recommend keeping place the bans for @hitler.didnt.kill.je.ws the three.mb.ie one, as well as the 122.124.*@hinet.net
[00:22] <bazhang> feel free to remove all others as I no longer have ops in there
[00:33] <IdleOne> hmm
[00:37] <ts2> he's still on the access list btw, first entry I see...
[00:38] <IdleOne> yup
[00:38] <IdleOne> probably a script fail
[00:44] <Jordan_U> mulvane is trolling in #ubuntu.
[02:06] <bazhang> guest14606?
[11:33] <popey> sorry about that ikonia
[11:34] <ikonia> troll
[11:34] <ikonia> 1 line
[11:34] <ikonia> popey: it's not a big deal is it
[11:34] <popey> :)
[11:35] <popey> my irc channels have all moved about
[11:35] <popey> i spoke without noticing where i was :)
[11:35] <ikonia> easy done
[11:56] <ikonia> !staff | panarchy (other nicks linux-cli and bsd-cli) will not stop trying to ban dodge
[11:57] <KB1JWQ> Hmm.
[12:10] <ikonia> how many times does panarchy have to be an issue with this channel
[12:11] <MichealH-Web> I made a small typo in my edit request
[12:12] <ikonia> MichealH-Web: thats fine
[12:12] <MichealH-Web> It more of a grammatical error
[12:12] <MichealH-Web> I said 'these links:'
[12:12] <MichealH-Web> Its more like 'this link:'
[12:13] <ikonia> it's fine
[12:13] <MichealH-Web> Just letting you know
[12:13] <MichealH-Web> Bye!
[12:13] <ikonia> no problem
[13:01] <popey> insider_ is link spamming in #ubuntu
[13:01] <popey> !une
[13:01] <ikonia> he did #k as a different user earlier
[13:02] <ikonia> why has michael resubmitted pretty much the same link
[13:03] <popey> its rebranded innit
[13:03] <popey> UNR -> UNE
[13:03] <popey> lol, UNE redirects to UNR on the wiki
[13:03] <ikonia> ah
[13:27] <ikonia> YoungGUN: the language policy of the channel is not up for debate
[13:27] <YoungGUN> okay..
[13:27] <ikonia> YoungGUN: no-one in the channel was rude to you, using offensive language
[13:28] <ikonia> people where helping you
[13:28] <ikonia> a.) we don't care about the weather - it's a support channel
[13:28] <ikonia> b.) your language (fuck) is not needed or acceptable
[13:28] <ikonia> if you can't contribute to the channel without using that language, I suggest you find support elsewhere
[13:28] <ikonia> if you can't deal with people telling you to not use that language, I suggest you find support elsewhere
[13:28] <YoungGUN> i wasnt being rude. and im greatful for the help
[13:29] <ikonia> YoungGUN: you where being rude
[13:29] <ikonia> YoungGUN: the language is rude, when being asked not to do it, arguing it, is rude
[13:29] <ikonia> did anyone else say go to you "holy fuck your screwed, unlucky"
[13:29] <ikonia> no
[13:29] <ikonia> they talked to you polite and without abusive language
[13:29] <YoungGUN> ikonia if u would of read what i said earlier i dont mind not using the language
[13:29] <ikonia> YoungGUN: why did you argue it
[13:29] <YoungGUN> i didnt direct the language toward any one person first of all
[13:29] <ikonia> the words are "sorry, no problem"
[13:30] <YoungGUN> im not arguing
[13:30] <YoungGUN> im not defying you
[13:30] <YoungGUN> i already said i wouldnt use it
[13:30] <YoungGUN> and did i say ikonia fuck?
[13:30] <YoungGUN> because i dont see how u can call words "bad"
[13:30] <ikonia> YoungGUN: you said to the whole channel
[13:30] <YoungGUN> think about it honestly
[13:30] <YoungGUN> calling a word bad..
[13:30] <ikonia> fuck is a world wide offensive word
[13:30] <YoungGUN> its a word, its a sound we create
[13:30] <ikonia> why should people have to read it
[13:30] <ikonia> it's meaning
[13:30] <ikonia> it's intent
[13:30] <YoungGUN> in context i can see how it can be bad if i used racial slers or something along those lines
[13:30] <ikonia> the language policy is not up for debate
[13:31] <YoungGUN> i beg to differ
[13:31] <ikonia> YoungGUN: do you turn up to a job interview and say "hi fucker"
[13:31] <YoungGUN> i already agreed to ur language policy
[13:31] <YoungGUN> no i introduce myself by name, and yes i use the world "fuck" at work, because my co workers and boss realize that words are just words
[13:32] <ikonia> YoungGUN: do you write a letter to your bank manger saying "I'd like a fucking loan"
[13:32] <ikonia> YoungGUN: do you use "hi, I want this fucking job" in a job interview
[13:32] <ikonia> to strangers, people you don't know
[13:32] <ikonia> to people you are trying to be polite to
[13:32] <YoungGUN> no because its not proper
[13:32] <YoungGUN> not because the word is bad
[13:32] <YoungGUN> fuck isnt a polite word
[13:32] <ikonia> not proper ?
[13:33] <YoungGUN> but it isnt a bad word either
[13:33] <ikonia> YoungGUN: right, so why do you not want to be polite to people in the channel
[13:33] <YoungGUN> ikonia, i simply made a general statement not directed toward anyone
[13:33] <ikonia> that the whole channel read
[13:33] <ikonia> so it's to the whole channel
[13:33] <YoungGUN> if i would of said HEY FUCKER HELP ME
[13:33] <YoungGUN> that would of been different
[13:34] <YoungGUN> but i simply was surprised by the downpour of rain
[13:34] <ikonia> no it wouldn't
[13:34] <ikonia> fuck is an unacceptable word
[13:34] <YoungGUN> if the president rolls over tomorrow and says the word apple is bad
[13:34] <YoungGUN> are u going to stop saying apple?
[13:34] <ikonia> I don't want to see any more bad language in the channel if I remove the mute
[13:34] <ikonia> it's nothing about the president
[13:34] <YoungGUN> ikonia i already agreed to ur terms and regulations
[13:34] <ikonia> fine
[13:34] <ikonia> I'll remove the mute
[13:34] <YoungGUN> im just saying words should not be classified as bad...
[13:35] <ikonia> they ARE classified as bad
[13:35] <YoungGUN> ONLY BECAUSE U CLASSIFY THEM AS SO
[13:35] <YoungGUN> i myself dont
[13:35] <YoungGUN> so to me and hundreds of thousands of other people
[13:36] <YoungGUN> itisnt..
[13:36] <YoungGUN> but to u it is
[13:36] <YoungGUN> its an opinion game
[13:36] <YoungGUN> its like church vs science
[13:36] <ikonia> YoungGUN: polite culture does -
[13:36] <ikonia> it's not an opinion, talk to people politly, you said fuck was impolite, don't use it
[13:36] <ts2> ragardless of your opinion, the channel rules are the channel rules
[13:36] <topyli> YoungGUN: the rules are not up for debate. resolve our issue and move on with you day. thanks
[13:36] <ikonia> talk to people as you would speak to strangers/bank manager, polite and respectful
[13:36] <YoungGUN> what arent ou guys getting?
[13:36] <YoungGUN> imnot trying to argue the rule
[13:37] <ikonia> YoungGUN: the mute has been removed, your welcome to leave this channel and return to ubuntu, please keep in mind what's been said
[13:37] <YoungGUN> thats fair enough ill take it in the sense of politeness.. but i will not classify the word fuck as bad..
[13:37] <YoungGUN> words are just words.
[13:37] <YoungGUN> okie dokie, thanks guys. not trying to stir up trouble here.
[13:40] <ikonia> floodbot4 just killed fb3 for ljl's connection being an open proxy
[13:42] <ikonia> ljl is resolving it
[13:43] <ikonia> YoungGUN: if you're done in this channel could you please leave as we have a no-idle policy, thanks.
[13:43] <YoungGUN> so many policies :X are these posted somewhere....
[13:44] <ikonia> in the topic
[13:44] <ikonia> check the topic of a channel when you join
[13:45] <ikonia> YoungGUN: anything else ?
[13:46] <YoungGUN> just skimmin the rules here really quick sorry
[14:17] <ikonia> mulvane and daemon in #freebsd setting up trolling runs
[14:33] <ikonia> ##freebsd and #not-##freebsd sorry
[19:29] <ikonia> sorting ban list now
[19:31] <topyli> i am mobile, feel free to remove my old bans unless they're on known dorks
[19:38] <nhandler> I've mentioned this before, but if you ban forward someone to ##fix_your_connection, you really should join the channel so you can remove the ban forward when they stop join spamming.
[19:39] <nhandler> It is a common courtesy that we owe to our users
[19:43] <ikonia> nhandler: no it's not, the users should read the topic then report back here
[19:43] <ikonia> if it doesn't we need to change the topic
[19:44] <nhandler> ikonia: The topic simply informs them that they were sent there due to connection troubles. They have no easy way of knowing which channels have set the forwards (other than attempting to join each channel, which is a big pain for people in many channels)
[19:45] <nhandler> ikonia: We have people serving as OPs for a reason.
[19:45] <ikonia> nhandler: yes, that doesn't mean sitting watching a channel waiting for someone's connection to stabalise
[19:46] <ikonia> nhandler: the topic should state, you've banned forwaded here, once your connection is stable, join #ubuntu-ops and we'll remove the forward
[19:46] <ikonia> that way, the forward is alwasy removed
[19:46] <ikonia> or have #ubuntu-fix-connection
[19:47] <nhandler> ikonia: ##fix_your_connection isn't an Ubuntu channel. It is a generic freenode channel that OPs are encouraged to forward users to when they have connection problems. Creating our own version of it is silly, and it just causes users with connection troubles to end up in 2 additional channels instead of 1
[19:47] <nhandler> ikonia: And you don't need to sit and watch for the minute the connection resolves. However, they do usually resolve themselves within a few hours (max), so idling in that channel and checking in every now and then is not a lot of extra work
[19:48] <ikonia> yes it is
[19:48] <ikonia> you have to go through the ##fix-your-connection bans, and then map that to the users that are still in that channel, then map that to if they are having a problem
[19:48] <ikonia> forward them to #ubuntu-broke-connection and have the topic state how to resolve it
[19:49] <ikonia> keeps the ban list clear, puts the responsability on the user, and takes the pressure off the ops
[19:49] <nhandler> ikonia: No. If you banfowrad *!*@unaffiliated/foo to ##fix_your_connection, then and only then, would you need to pay attention to ##fix_your_connection to see when the big join/quit spam from that user stops so you can remove the ban
[19:50] <nhandler> And taking the approach you suggested just further encourages the ban and forget approach which is frowned upon by us and freenode
[19:50] <ikonia> nhandler: it could be 3 days
[19:50] <ikonia> nhandler: he could part the channel and the ban would still remain
[19:51] <ikonia> forwarding to #ubuntu-fix-connection does not "ban and forget"
[19:51] <ikonia> it resovles the issue
[19:51] <ikonia> ift he user is banned to there, and the topic says "once your connection is stable, join #ubuntu-ops"
[19:51] <ikonia> it's a problem solved
[19:51] <ikonia> they have to come here, we have to remove the ban, everyone wins
[19:52] <nhandler> Besides the fact that we are creating an additional uneccessary channel, causing users with connection problems to end up in 2 additional channels, and not really holding OPs accountable for trying to work with the users to make their stay in our channels as easy/enjoyable as possible, yes
[19:54] <nhandler> We should be the ones (as leaders in the community) going the extra mile. We shouldn't require our users to do that
[19:54] <ikonia> nhandler: whoaaa did you just say un-needed channels
[19:55] <ikonia> when we have #ubuntu-offtopic, #kubuntu-offtopic #xubuntu-offtopic #ubuntu-youth-offtopic #ubuntu-de-offtopic #ubuntu-women-offtpic #ubuntu-community-team #ubuntu-beginners #ubuntu-irc-helpers #ubuntu-bots #ubuntu-bots-devel
[19:55] <ikonia> and many many many more
[19:55] <ikonia> against a channel that actually resolves a valid issue
[19:56] <ikonia> nhandler: people do go the extra mile, and the fact that you're juding that extra mile by monitoring people in another channel, is bonkers
[19:56] <ikonia> nhandler: where is the response to my irc-community-council mails
[19:56] <ikonia> nhandler: where is the extra mile on a 4 month+ wait
[19:56] <ikonia> nhandler: where is the policy that was agreed on blanket bans been documented, over 4 months ago
[19:57] <ikonia> nhandler: where is the implimentation of this
[19:57] <ikonia> where is the extra mile for your operator team - or just the actual action of rsponse
[19:57] <ikonia> sorry to be harsh on this, but it all looks a one way street
[19:57] <ikonia> we need to do more, do better, yet everything that goes up the chain from operators goes no-where
[19:59] <topyli> i agree with nhandler on the forwarding issue. join the channel and help the user
[19:59] <ikonia> what a surprise bacta spamming
[19:59] <ikonia> what now
[19:59] <Bacta> Blow it out your ass
[19:59] <ikonia> staff - when are you going to deal with this suer
[19:59] <ikonia> he's just hit ##linux and now trying ubuntu
[20:00] <Bacta> Waiit a second
[20:00]  * Bacta puts on his serious mask
[20:00] <Bacta> May I ask you a question?
[20:00] <ikonia> no
[20:00] <topyli> no
[20:00] <Bacta> You're staff
[20:00] <ikonia> !staff |bacta hitting many channels
[20:00] <Bacta> So ikonia, you'
[20:00] <Bacta> you need to help me
[20:02] <ikonia> Bacta: you are not welcoem in the #ubuntu channels, please leave this channel
[20:02] <Bacta> Are you staff?
[20:02] <ikonia> no
[20:02] <Bacta> Hahahahahahahahahahahahaaaa
[20:02] <ikonia> !ops
[20:02] <Bacta> Bahahahahahahahahahahahahahaa
[20:02] <ikonia> why do we have to go through this utter joke every time
[20:03] <ikonia> thats the exact reason I raised the blanket ban
[20:03] <ikonia> he pushes every channel, the ones we can do something about in #ubuntu is still waiting to be implimented
[20:03] <Bacta> Bahahahahahahahahahahahahahaa
[20:03] <ikonia> yeah, nice +q
[20:04] <ikonia> genius
[20:04] <topyli> :)
[20:04] <ikonia> what does this user have to do to get banned
[20:04] <ikonia> and as staff how long are you going to let him hit the network
[20:04] <topyli> i am just asking them now, ikonia
[20:14]  * ikonia watches the bacta show in #ubuntu-nz
[20:18] <ikonia> what is the point of letting bacta sit here on mute, just remove him
[20:19] <ikonia> either remove the mute and let him carry on with his toll based activities in here or remove him, it's pointless to let him idle here on mute
[20:20]  * nhandler thought he was OPed (and channel is +z)
[20:20] <ikonia> easy mistake to make
[20:21] <nhandler> Bacta: Anything on-topic to say with regards to your behavior and/or the bans? If not, please respect the no idling policy
[20:23] <nhandler> Bacta: ikonia is an Ubuntu operator (not freenode staff). The bans still stand until your behavior improves and the OP team feels confident you will behave appropriately and ontopic in the Ubuntu channels
[20:28] <nhandler> ikonia: What did Bacta do in -nz earlier?
[20:28] <ikonia> nothing, he was just warming up
[20:28] <ikonia> however it's another one of his channels he likes to hit
[20:29] <ikonia> I'm off to do something fun, my nose is a bit out of join at the moment
[20:29] <nhandler> ikonia: Alright. He claims to have been on topic in -release-party, -nz, and -vn. I can check -release-party, I would have to check if -nz and -vn have public logs
[20:30] <ikonia> nhandler: no logs, and to be honest, look at his behaviour in here #freenode and ##linux
[20:30] <ikonia> it's a total waste of time, he's on topic for 5 minutes in quiet channels to get bans in #ubuntu removed so he can start again
[20:30] <ikonia> he has 50+ bans in #ubuntu channels, what does that tell you
[20:32] <ikonia> 42 entries to be exact, so I'm not accused of distorting the truth
[20:33] <ikonia> there are many more that he /quits before anything is done
[20:33] <nhandler> ikonia: I'm not denying his past behavior ;)
[20:34] <ikonia> of course not, but I'm aware how if your 1 number out in such as statment as the one I've been made it can reflect bad on the whole universe
[20:35] <ikonia> nhandler: keep in mind as well that BT lost a few entries during the upgrade, there is a LOT more
[20:35] <ikonia> right, I'm off to do something fun, enjoy the evening
[20:45] <rww> Hello. See #ubuntu-offtopic. I'm curious as to whether deliberately /nicking to avoid /ignore and then mentioning changing IP address to avoid host-based /ignore is okay under IRC guidelines
[20:45] <rww> seems to me like it would fall squarely in the "Don't be annoying" section.
[20:46]  * rww facepalms at the idiocy
[20:48] <robinetd> Can somebody sane take care of the situation in #ubuntu-offtopic?
[20:49] <rww> topyli: just mute the whole channel for 10 minutes. do us all a favor.
[20:51] <topyli> i can't be bothered, I'm on phone irc. get a real operator :)
[20:51] <robinetd> I'm trying.
[20:51] <rww> topyli: /msg chanserv and tell it to op me, I'll do it ;P
[20:52] <Gary> do we still ban for asking for ops?
[20:52] <rww> Gary: no, the shiny new procedure requires asking for ops before you get it.
[20:52] <ts2> well, it requires you to ask for op via LP, not IRC ;)
[20:54] <rww> Ah, but then you wouldn't have any testimonials!
[20:54] <topyli> rww: there you are
[20:55] <ts2> if it means I have to read less, I'm ok with that :)
[20:55] <ikonia> what is the point of having these procedures if you just overrule them
[20:55] <ikonia> I'm actually for it, but what was the point of that whole application process when you've just bypassed it in seconds
[20:56] <ts2> the processs is for getting added to the access list, not for a temporary +o when no "real" ops are about
[20:56] <ikonia> ops are around
[20:57] <ts2> then why did none of them deal with -ot?
[20:57] <rww> This is probably unfair, but my perception is that they should have been around ten minutes ago, not jumping in as soon as there's something to argue about.
[20:57] <ikonia> I would have if topyli hadn't have clamed it down
[20:58] <ikonia> rww: I agree, I'm not disupting that,
[20:58] <robinetd> ikonia: The only thing he did was tell me to go away. I was the one who called ops because people were breaking guidelines.
[20:58] <ikonia> robinetd: I know, I saw what happened but topyli is an op and was sorting it, so I left be
[21:00] <ikonia> no point removing it now, I have no objection to him having it, more so as it is quiet
[21:00] <ikonia> I just don't see the whole 5 weeks of discussion for a totally pointless process to then bypasss it
[21:01] <ts2> as I said, the process is for being added to the access list
[21:02] <ikonia> come on
[21:02] <ikonia> you can't have a process for adding tot he access list then just give people ops
[21:02] <ikonia> it's not "transparant"
[21:02] <ikonia> or whatever the excuse was for the pointless process that had weeks spent drawing it up
[21:04] <rww> not that it really matters, but I for one think ryaxnb needs talking to in PM about what I came in about, and he and robinetd need telling off for abuse of ops calls and lack of ability to disengage from conversations with people they perceive as trolls. Just a thought.
[21:04] <robinetd> rww: I didn't abuse ops calls.
[21:05] <rww> robinetd: yes, you did. tiox didn't constitute a channel emergency.
[21:05] <robinetd> rww: Who decides what constitutes a channel emergency? You?
[21:06] <rww> I would expect "common sense", but that might be expecting too much from -offtopic.
[21:07] <robinetd> I sense a veiled insult. I'm not going to argue with you. I will wait for an operator that is ready to address me.
[21:07] <rww> Anyway, I'm going to go back to getting ready for work. Have fun in opland, everyone :\
[21:07] <ikonia> robinetd: what's the issue, is the channel clam/ok now ?
[21:07] <ikonia> calm
[21:08] <robinetd> ikonia: May I private message you regarding my issue? The person whom it concerns is also in here, and I don't feel comfortable discussing it in front of him/her.
[21:08] <ikonia> robinetd: sure
[22:51] <ikonia> keep an eye on oly562 in #ubuntu, I remove the ban on him a few days ago, and he's normally a problem
[22:55] <ikonia> looks like spammers are bothering to register users
[23:23] <Flannel> whack a mole
[23:57] <ikonia> again oly562 about him running modified flash binaries that work