[18:35] <nisshh> omg
[18:35] <nisshh> i was so close to catching jenkins
[18:35] <nisshh> bugger
[20:32] <nisshh> godbyk, ping
[20:33] <nisshh> aquarius, i will sort out the tex live PPA as soon as possible
[20:39] <godbyk> nisshh: pong
[20:44] <trijntje> is there any news on the screenshot server python issue?
[20:47] <mterry_> Is there a technical reason the versions of texlive needed aren't in Ubuntu?  No one to update them or something worse?
[20:49] <dutchie> mterry_: i understand that texlive is a bit of a monster to package, so there is a fair bit of lag between upstream releases and them getting into debian, then ubuntu
[20:50] <mterry_> Yar, I believe it.  It's just a shame how gross the 'getting texlive on your system' part of contributing to the manual is (looking at it for a separate Ubuntu Developer's Manual which hopes to use same stylesheets etc)
[20:54] <dutchie> mterry_: there is slow progress being made on a ppa
[20:55] <mterry_> dutchie, yeah?  is there a link?   I don't see texlive-base in any PPA newer than karmic
[20:55] <dutchie> i don't think it works yet :)
[20:55] <mterry_> :(
[20:57] <bilalakhtar> mterry_: Are you a member of the desktop team?
[20:58] <mterry_> bilalakhtar, yeah
[20:59] <nisshh> godbyk, see mterry_'s question
[21:00] <godbyk> trijntje: not yet, I'm afraid.
[21:01] <godbyk> mterry_: I think jenkins was working on the LaTeX PPA, but he's been really busy lately.
[21:01] <godbyk> mterry_: But AFAIK, there shouldn't be an technical reasons why it can't be packaged (aside from needing to get more space in your PPA).
[21:01] <godbyk> mterry_: We contacted the debian package maintainers for the texlive packages and they basically said they're waiting for the next version of debian before they work on new packages (if I remember correctly).
[21:02] <mterry_> godbyk, heh.  OK.  Could split across PPAs or something.  Still gross, but...
[21:02] <mterry_> godbyk, guh. Understandable, but there's no ETA on that
[21:02] <godbyk> mterry_: texlive is a big download at the beginning, but once you have it, you can keep it up to date using their updater (called tlmgr).  So it's just the initial cost that's a pain.
[21:03] <godbyk> mterry_: no ETA that I'm aware of.
[21:03] <mterry_> godbyk, yes.  I'm not so worried for myself, but I'm trying to make it easy to contribute
[21:04] <godbyk> mterry_: If you come up with an easier way I'd love to hear about it.  It's something that holds a lot of people back from contributing to our project, too, I think.
[21:05] <mterry_> godbyk, OK.  will ping if I do...  might modify install-pkgs.sh script to do a bit more automatically or something
[21:05] <mterry_> Sounds like I don't want to try to package it myself in a PPA (unless difficulty is overblown?  Might be one of those things where someone that didn't know it was impossible could do it)
[21:06] <mterry_> godbyk: how difficult would it be to avoid using bits of 2009 that aren't in Ubuntu yet?  Like, is it lots of stuff, or just one icon somewhere?
[21:12] <godbyk> mterry_: I haven't checked the Maverick stuff yet.  I know for sure that they haven't packaged the ccicons stuff (which just gives us nice-looking Creative Commons icons).
[21:12] <godbyk> mterry_: Also, if you're wanting to translate to a lot of languages, you'll want the latest polyglossia and csquotes packages.
[21:12] <mterry_> hrm, not worrying about translation yet...  but ok
[21:13] <godbyk> mterry_: We had a big problem with using TeX Live 2008 as packaged in Lucid. The XeLaTeX version was too old.
[21:13] <godbyk> But if they've brought XeLaTeX up to date, then you might be able to get away with just manually installing some newer tex packages.
[21:13] <godbyk> (You can write a script to do it easily.)
[21:14] <godbyk> In short, for plain English stuff, you can get away with what's packaged in Maverick.
[21:14] <godbyk> The problems show up when you're trying to translate to a number of different languages.
[21:24] <nisshh> godbyk, right, so only translators need a version newer than whats in maverick?
[21:24] <godbyk> nisshh: translators and anyone who wants to build translated PDFs.
[21:24] <godbyk> At least, I *think* that's true.
[21:24] <nisshh> ok
[21:24] <godbyk> I haven't actually tested the packages in Maverick.
[21:24] <nisshh> yeah
[21:24] <nisshh> i guess some people will do that
[21:24] <godbyk> Since I write LaTeX code often enough, I just keep up to date on CTAN (TeX Live) directly.
[21:25] <nisshh> yeah
[21:25] <nisshh> not xelatex
[21:26] <godbyk> XeLaTeX just gives you access to non-TeX fonts (read: all your normal fonts).
[21:26] <godbyk> Oh, and it understands Unicode.
[21:26] <nisshh> ah ok
[21:26] <nisshh> godbyk, thanks for pointing out some stuff in the manual session earlier btw :)
[21:27] <godbyk> np
[21:27] <nisshh> :)
[21:27] <nisshh> godbyk, can you do me a favour?
[21:27] <godbyk> I'm happy to help you guys with the book design or LaTeX code, if you like.
[21:27] <godbyk> nisshh: Sure.
[21:27] <nisshh> oh cool
[21:28] <nisshh> godbyk, if you talk to flan any time soon, can you please tell him i need to speak to him about Quickshot?
[21:28] <nisshh> i never seem to be able to get hold of him, even though i have pinged him 10 times
[21:28] <godbyk> nisshh: Sure. I don't see him too often these days. I think he's really busy with work right now.
[21:29] <nisshh> i see
[21:29] <nisshh> that would explain why he isnt replying
[21:29] <godbyk> I think there's a quickshot-devs mailing list you could try, too
[21:29] <nisshh> ok, thanks
[21:30] <nisshh> also, any design we do will be later in the cycle, once we have most other things in place
[21:30] <nisshh> godbyk, did you hear about the sprint during the session?
[21:31] <godbyk> I caught bits and pieces.
[21:31] <godbyk> (and yeah, it's easier to design the book after you have more of the content written. that way I have an idea of what needs to go into the design.)
[21:31] <nisshh> yeah
[21:32] <dutchie> those lines had a pretty cascade of spaces
[21:32] <dutchie> then godbyk ruined it
[21:32] <nisshh> godbyk, wasnt there talk not that long ago of using the new Ubuntu color scheme in the natty pdf design?
[21:32] <godbyk> lol
[21:32] <dutchie> shouldn't have put a bracket in there
[21:32] <nisshh> hehe
[21:33] <godbyk> nisshh: yeah. I've got some of the color stuff in my working dir, but I have to print it a few places to see if it looks okay. then I'll get it committed.
[21:34] <nisshh> godbyk, cool
[21:34] <nisshh> aquarius, you there?
[21:35] <nisshh> popey, i didnt know you did the UK loco podcast :)
[21:36] <popey> heh
[21:36] <dutchie> popey is a celebrity!
[21:36] <nisshh> hehe
[21:39] <aquarius> nisshh, hi
[21:43] <aquarius> nisshh, sorry, gotta go, hopefully we can catch up later
[21:46] <nisshh> aquarius, ah, i was just going to say that i will get the PPA back up ASAP, just need to get hold of the maintainer
[21:46] <nisshh> the tex live PPA that is
[21:46] <trijntje> godbyk, I just remember I only thought "ok" when you said the server isnt working yet
[21:46] <godbyk> trijntje: ha! no worries. :)
[21:47] <nisshh> meh, nvm....
[21:53] <trijntje> and now that I have repented from my sins, i'm off too bed. Goodnight all