[01:10] <psusi> on the livecd, isn't update-grub supposed to be disabled when installing a new kernel?  how is that done?
[01:51] <psusi> hrm.. it is intentional that logging into the gnome desktop adds your uid to the acl for /dev/sr0 right?  what component is responsible for that?
[02:14] <flyguy> hi
[02:14] <flyguy> what happened to #ubuntu ? everyone is banned?
[02:18] <flyguy> what is the min size needed for netbook ubuntu installation
[03:52] <ebroder> psusi: update-initramfs is disabled on live cds (although it attempts to heuristically detect live usb as a different thing). it's done by /usr/share/initramfs-tools/scripts/casper-bottom/43disable_updateinitramfs (which gets copied into the initramfs)
[04:06] <psusi> ebroder, yes, but what about update-grub?  I'm looking at a bug report of update-grub failing on a liveusb, but update-grub shouldn't even be run there should it?
[04:06] <ebroder> psusi: To my knowledge, there's nothing to *keep* it from being run
[04:07] <ebroder> But given that live everythings use syslinux right now, it probably shouldn't be run
[04:07] <ebroder> (s/sys/iso/ as necessary)
[04:14] <timtootin> can someone point me to where to begin developing programs for ubuntu
[04:15] <psusi> ebroder, so what component should the bug be filed under?  it's currently on linux and that isn't right.... maybe it should be grub2?  or should it be casper?
[04:16] <ebroder> psusi: If anything, it's a casper bug
[04:17] <ebroder> psusi: Although attempting to hunt down every command that it doesn't make sense to run on a live cd is something of a sisyphean task
[04:17] <psusi> ebroder, ok... I was looking into why it's run and it seems the grub2 package installs a file in /etc/kernel/postinst.d which gets run by the kernel package postinst script... so either casper should remove this file, or it should be modified to not do anything when on a livecd, or the kernel package I suppose could be run to not bother invoking it maybe...
[04:18] <psusi> why do you say that?
[04:18] <ebroder> timtootin: What sort of stuff are you looking to do?
[04:19] <ebroder> psusi: Ah, I had forgotten about the /etc/kernel hook. Yeah, I think it probably makes sense to do the same thing to update-grub in casper that we do to update-initramfs, in that case
[04:20] <psusi> which is?
[04:20] <ebroder> Move it out of the way and replace it with a no-op shell script
[04:20] <ebroder> Look at the file I referenced earlier
[04:21] <psusi> have casper remove the script, or modify the script to check some sort of variable that casper sets to say you're on a livecd dummy?
[04:21] <ebroder> casper can remove the script - because it's a live cd, the change isn't persisted
[04:21] <ebroder> (or if it's a live usb, you never want to run update-grub at any point, even in the future)
[04:21] <ebroder> Did you look at the file I mentioned?
[04:22] <psusi> I don't seem to have it
[04:22] <psusi> hrm... but I guess that makes sense, so I'll reassign the bug to casper
[04:22] <ebroder> You don't generally have the casper package on an installed system. Grab the source - should be easy to find in there
[04:41] <ebroder> psusi: Can you subscribe me to your casper bug? I'd like to follow along. (I'm ~broder on LP)
[04:44] <psusi> ebroder, done... bug #667578
[04:45] <ebroder> ty
[04:46] <ebroder> Ugh. That description is...only barely helpful
[04:48] <ebroder> psusi: Are you interested in developing a patch for this? If not I can probably come up with something quickly
[04:49] <psusi> I know hardly anything about casper
[04:50] <ebroder> Ok, cool. I'll go ahead and take a stab at it, then
[04:50] <psusi> though I wonder if this shouldn't really be fixed in grub2..
[04:51] <psusi> I mean should the package really fail to be configured if it can't install the boot loader?  if you (re)install it to the hard disk while booting from a livecd, you will run into the same problem and casper won't help there
[04:52] <ebroder> There are some assumptions baked into grub that if the package is installed, then the bootloader is too. It's possible that behavior is a bug
[04:53] <psusi> that's what I was thinking...
[04:54] <psusi> you should be able to install the package into a chroot without having the boot loader be installed anywhere...
[04:55] <ebroder> What version of grub are you using? grub2 doesn't seem to ship an /etc/kernel/postinst.d file
[04:56] <psusi> 1.98+20100804-5ubuntu3
[04:56] <psusi> psusi@faldara:/usr/src$ dpkg -S /etc/kernel/postinst.d/zz-update-grub
[04:56] <psusi> grub-pc: /etc/kernel/postinst.d/zz-update-grub
[04:56] <ebroder> Changed in maverick, apparently
[04:57] <psusi> how did it work before?
[04:57] <ebroder> Uh...I guess /etc/kernel/postinst.d is the transition path from away from /etc/kernel-img.conf
[04:58] <psusi> I was wondering about that... it looked like the kernel package postinst had code that looked to that conf file to see if it should run lilo or some other boot loader... but grub was suspiciously absent
[05:01] <ebroder> I still think I lean towards a casper fix. The reason update-grub is *erroring*, instead of simply being useless, because we're running on top of this screwy aufs-mount thing
[05:01] <ebroder> If / was a real filesystem, I suspect update-grub would run without problem
[05:03] <ebroder> But in any case, I'm not actually sure I know how to fix this in a way that will work if/when the livecd transitions to grub (or a user builds their own casper-based system using grub)
[05:17] <psusi> what does the livecd using grub or not have to dow ith anything?
[05:19] <psusi> oh foo, I'm too tired and drunk to figure this out now... just going to go to bed and think on it for tomorrow...
[10:32] <uni4dfx> anyone know, will the old gnome-panel applets still be usable in Unity?
[11:41] <YokoZar> slangasek: if you don't give me multiarch this release, I'm going to add every single dependency of gstreamer0.10-plugins-good to ia32-libs
[14:54] <switchgirl> hi i have found a security hole
[14:54] <switchgirl> epiphany webbrowser allws scripts to run othr applications
[14:55] <bilalakhtar> !filebug | switchgirl
[14:55] <switchgirl> i am on a dating site, they play a sound to say there is anew message and it started the movie player app i use - the file played automatically
[16:50] <andreserl> It is not correct to have a meta-package that Depends on libraries right?
[16:51] <geser> what is the purpose of that meta-package?
[16:53] <andreserl> geser: there's was a package libcluster-glue that contained shared libraries. Now, that package has been splitted to one package per library (By Upstream/debian). However, he is also making libclucster-glue depend on all of the splitted libraries
[16:55] <andreserl> geser: using it as a transitional package. is it correct to do that?
[16:55] <geser> andreserl: so it's more a transition package to not break the current dependencies?
[16:55] <geser> yes
[16:55] <andreserl> geser: http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/522770/
[16:56] <andreserl> geser: ok then :). Thanks
[17:32] <s|icer> hey guys
[17:32] <s|icer> i'm trying to set up my email, but thunderbird isn't accepting it.
[17:32] <s|icer> i think because i used an alternate domain, hushmail.com lets you use hush.com, so my email is slicer@hush.com
[17:33] <s|icer> so when i use imap.hushmail.com and pop.hushmail.com, it will connect to the servers, but it kicks slicer out as an invalid username
[17:33] <azeem> s|icer: please ask in #ubuntu
[17:33] <s|icer> this doesn't have anything to do with ubuntu
[17:33] <s|icer> i'm just trying to get all the dev gear going
[17:33] <s|icer> with my launchpad account and whatnot
[17:34] <s|icer> how imperative is it that i have said email account?
[17:37] <night_fox1> Hi. I'm having problems linking with libtool. My library gets linked, but then when I try and link against it, I get "undefined reference to foo" where foo is a function the library. How can I sort this out?
[17:41] <azeem> night_fox1: this channel is for Ubuntu development, not development on Ubuntu, please ask elsewhere
[17:43] <night_fox1> azeem, I can't find a channel that deals with the gnu build system, so I was hoping someone might be able to help me out. Where do you think would be the best place to ask?
[17:43] <azeem> #gnu?
[17:45] <night_fox1> azeem: ok, i'll ask there.
[18:18] <flyguy> hi
[18:18] <flyguy> are most people bannecd from #ubuntu?
[18:19] <flyguy> i don't understand why I am banned
[18:20] <slangasek> most people are not banned in Ubuntu, but this is not the channel where you'll find people who can help with that - try #ubuntu-ops
[18:21] <slangasek> in #ubuntu, I mean :)
[18:51] <phenom> Is there any way to pursuade Canonical to not replace Gnome with the buggy/incomplete Unity?
[18:51] <phenom> :)
[18:56] <OdyX> phenom: being sabdfl ? :->
[19:05] <phenom> I bet if I offer Shuttleworth a crisp $20 he will reconsider.
[19:05] <phenom> :)
[19:20] <SpamapS> phenom: Unity is buggy today.. but do you really think it will stay that way?
[19:20] <phenom> SpamapS, considering ubuntu's poor quality control, yes I do.
[19:21] <SpamapS> phenom: poor in relation to what?
[19:21] <phenom> Every upgrade breaks something, and reinstalling fresh every upgrade has scaringly enough become a viable solution to ubuntu's poor quality control
[19:21] <phenom> I'm not hating
[19:22] <SpamapS> poor is a relative statement. who or what is it poor in relation to is all I'm asking.
[19:22] <phenom> But if you ask me, ubuntu, needs to stop rushing, and get back to working on things like system stability
[19:23] <SpamapS> phenom: we just wrapped up a UDS where testing was a huge focus
[19:24] <phenom> SpamapS, I mean, poor as in I don't trust sudo apt-get dist-upgrade at all any more. I have been forced to reinstall fresh because I was tired of fighting bugs incroduced with each upgrade.
[19:24] <SpamapS> phenom: thats not even a supported way to upgrade.
[19:25] <phenom> SpamapS, Do you think a change as big as a newer UI should require a bit more testing/feedback?
[19:25] <SpamapS> phenom: I do think that Unity will be buggy as a desktop shell for natty.
[19:26] <SpamapS> I think natty is probably the last one where new big stuff like that should be introduced.
[19:27] <SpamapS> after that, really big changes need to wait for after 12.04
[19:27] <phenom> right
[19:28] <SpamapS> and if you think about it, by making Unity the shell for netbook edition in maverick means there is a set of bugs on the lowest performing hardware... once those are fixed on netbooks, more powerful machines should fly
[19:31] <phenom> I'd just like to see ubuntu ease in to such a big change, instead of forcing people onto something which would potentially introduce a lot of problems.
[19:31] <phenom> And maybe oppfer users the choice to try it, like make a "unibuntu" of sorts, before ditching gnome in it's entirety
[19:33] <phenom> I mean, I can install whatever UI I want, so it is sort of 6 in one hand tree deuces in another, but the rapid dev in asthetics over quality spooks me out a bit is all
[19:33] <SpamapS> Ubuntu is easing into it. If you look at the LTS release cadence.
[19:34] <phenom> Well I hope so. I'd hate to see more fragmentation in the linux community
[19:35] <SpamapS> "The latest crack" is almost a cliche in discussions about people who want new stuff. We all know it is crazy to get the hot new stuff.. but its just soooo fun
[19:35] <phenom> :)
[19:36] <SpamapS> phenom: Yeah, that was discusse at UDS as well. sabdfl specifically addressed it in the keynote by relating it to the "Peoples Front of Judea vs. Peoples Judean Front" from Monty Python.
[19:36] <s|icer> if i created a gpg key with an old email that i have now changed, should i create a new key with the new email? its not like i can't still use it, the emails just don't match.
[19:36] <SpamapS> s|icer: keys can have uids added
[19:38] <s|icer> SpamapS: ah, ok
[19:38] <SpamapS> s|icer: gpg --edit $keyid
[19:38] <SpamapS> s|icer: or your favorite gui tool of course
[19:42] <s|icer> SpamapS: how do i get launchpad to update said change?
[19:43] <SpamapS> s|icer: just add the key again
[19:58] <s|icer> SpamapS: I just did a gpg --edit-key <keyid> and then did adduid, added the correct one, then did 1, deluid and killed the first one.
[19:58] <s|icer> SpamapS: however, now the new one says [ unknown] next to it, the original said [ultimate] next to it, but i did a trust, 5 (ultimate)
[19:59] <SpamapS> s|icer: was the old email bad, or have you just lost access to it?
[19:59] <s|icer> well, without paying a fee, i didn't have access to their IMAP/SMTP
[19:59] <s|icer> so I just changed to a different provider.
[19:59] <s|icer> but I made the gpg key before I realized that.
[20:00] <s|icer> but i was wanting my key to reflect the proper email
[20:01] <SpamapS> yeah, I would too. I wonder if you can just add a comment to the old one though.
[20:01] <s|icer> well, i deleted it. i haven't saved my changes yet though
[20:02] <SpamapS> s|icer: were it my key, I'd want to keep the old email but have something in the key that says "xxx@foo.com no longer accessible"
[20:03] <s|icer> well, heres what i'm looking at now.
[20:03] <SpamapS> s|icer: though technically it might be reused
[20:03] <s|icer> pub  *****/********  created: 2010-10-30  expires: never       usage: SC   trust: ultimate      validity: ultimate
[20:03] <s|icer> sub  *****/********  created: 2010-10-30  expires: never       usage: E
[20:03] <s|icer> [ unknown] (1)* Sheridan Roberts (The Slicer) <slicer@gmx.com>
[20:03] <s|icer> Command>
[20:03] <SpamapS> That means there is just the one uid
[20:03] <SpamapS> which is what you wanted.
[20:04] <s|icer> yeah, but my concern is the "unknown"
[20:04] <s|icer> i was trying to get it to say "ultimate"
[20:05] <s|icer> though i wonder if that raelly matters
[20:09] <s|icer> i could just make a new key.
[20:09] <s|icer> i haven't done anything with it yet.
[20:09] <s|icer> because i saved, resent the key to the keyserver
[20:09] <s|icer> then reactivated it on launchpad
[20:09] <s|icer> still has the old uid
[20:11] <BUGabundo> guud evening
[20:11] <BUGabundo> remember: today changes DST
[21:13] <mtaylor> anybody got a pointer to upstart packaging info for lucid? I'm backporting something, and having a debian/blah.upstart file works in maverick, but doesn't seem so much to in lucid... do I just suck?
[21:21] <mtaylor> nevermind ... pebkac
[21:56] <GanonKiller> has combat arms been developed for meerkat yet?
[22:20] <fagan> GanonKiller: this channel isnt for questions like that. You need to ask the developers of that game if they are porting it.
[22:20] <fagan> This channel is for development of ubuntu