[03:36] <Viper550> so you're wanting to replace rhythmbox with banshee
[04:16] <lapion> does anyone know where I can get an update history ?
[04:19] <lapion> an upgrade history of any given ubuntu release >
[05:41] <linuxuz3r> can i still use gnome if unity is the default desktop environment for ubuntu?
[05:42] <bazhang> yes, would you like a link?
[05:45] <bazhang> http://askubuntu.com/questions/9968/will-ubuntu-11-10-feature-gnome-shell-closed
[05:45] <bazhang> whoops
[05:45] <bazhang> same is true for 11.04 though
[05:48] <bazhang> http://askubuntu.com/questions/9861/will-unity-be-the-only-option-during-install linuxuz3r
[05:48] <linuxuz3r> thanks a lot man
[05:49] <bazhang> welcome
[05:49] <linuxuz3r> hey what hardware does unity support
[05:49] <andresmh> last year I reported a regression bug with audio, https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/pulseaudio/+bug/409819,  today I am testing 10.10 using a LiveUSB and I found the same problem. I am just wondering if there's anything I can do to help make it possible to get it fix in the next version of Ubuntu.
[05:50] <bazhang> linuxuz3r, stuff that can do 3D compositing
[05:50] <linuxuz3r> oh ok
[05:51] <bazhang> but even if you have that, and still dont want unity, you can install the traditional Gnome interface
[06:25] <linuxuz3r> bazhang which is better unity or gnomeshell
[06:25] <bazhang> linuxuz3r, hard to say now, as neither is completed. perhaps in six months time we can judge (if you mean unity for the desktop)
[06:26] <linuxuz3r> yes
[06:26] <bazhang> askubuntu.com has lots and lots on this, by the way
[06:27] <linuxuz3r> bazhang unity comes with themes that are preinstalled right
[06:27] <bazhang> linuxuz3r, for 11.04 ?
[06:27] <linuxuz3r> for all
[06:28] <bazhang> linuxuz3r, for 10.10 no idea as I dont use netbook edition, for 11.04 its not completed, so cannot speculate
[06:28] <linuxuz3r> ok
[12:57] <Goog_Josh> does anybody khow why cron can't exec some applications like totem, kaffeine etc.?
[12:58] <UndiFineD> those apps need the gui, which crontab cannot provide
[12:59] <UndiFineD> crontab is started before Xorg
[13:01] <Goog_Josh> i see, but how to plan the launch of these programs?
[13:02] <UndiFineD> I don think there is a time starting gui app yet
[13:03] <UndiFineD> though there are alarm apps, so it should not be difficult
[13:03] <Goog_Josh> )) i realized. tell me some sheduler apps please
[13:04] <Goog_Josh> what is alarm?
[13:04] <UndiFineD> http://www.ubuntugeek.com/schedule-tasks-using-gnome-schedule-a-cron-at-gui-in-ubuntu.html
[13:04] <UndiFineD> an AT gui :)
[13:05] <Goog_Josh> thank a lot
[14:29] <sebsebseb> Hi  Ok so what do people here think about Ubuntu 11.04 using  Unity by default for the desktop edition instead of Gnome Shell?
[14:31] <penguin42> sebsebseb: I want to try Unity first to make my mind up; I tried Gnome Shell a while ago and decided I really didn't want to use it - so IMHO it can't be worse
[14:32] <sebsebseb> penguin42: Gnome Shell is good in my expereince,  just some how seems to lack certain features, but at the moment its only a window manager on top of Gnome 2, so thats probably why
[14:33] <sebsebseb> I tried Unity on my desktop PC
[14:33] <penguin42> sebsebseb: I really couldn't figure out how to do basic things in it
[14:33] <sebsebseb> and big screen as well
[14:33] <sebsebseb> and yeah it was ok like that
[14:33] <htorque> i think unity is more ready than gnome shell is (also, mutter performance seems to vary heavily depending on hardware/driver combination). still, it's a bold move - way bolder than moving window buttons around :P
[14:33] <sebsebseb> penguin42: Which Unity or Gnome Shell?
[14:33] <penguin42> sebsebseb: I think it's a mistake requiring 3d
[14:33] <penguin42> sebsebseb: Gnome Shell
[14:34] <sebsebseb> well Compiz needs 3D support,  11.04's Unity will use Compiz
[14:34] <sebsebseb> also the current Unity needs 3D support it seems
[14:34] <sebsebseb> or at least the propritary Nivida driver for example, for those cards
[14:34] <htorque> so does gnome shell
[14:34] <penguin42> yeh, and I think it's going to cause a world of pain
[14:34] <sebsebseb> htorque: yes exactly, both seem to need 3D support
[14:35] <penguin42> it means VMs aren't going to work properly and push the low end machines too hard
[14:35] <sebsebseb> penguin42: yep probabnly
[14:35] <htorque> the only problem i see: you can't ship with BLOBs, so how will it work eg. with nouveau?
[14:36] <sebsebseb> htorque: Gnome Shell works in Fedora with  Nouveau when it comes to someone I know online,  personally I still need the driver in Fedora it seems, but I got Nivida so yeah
[14:36] <htorque> seeing the gnome desktop after install and then having to install the blob AND unity to get unity is not likely what people want :D
[14:36] <sebsebseb> however yeah I would like to vm  try  11.04 with Unity, but  maybe the driver will cause an issue, when comes to that, hmm
[14:36] <htorque> yeah, current unity works fine for me with nouveau's experimental 3d support, but that won't land in 11.04
[14:36] <sebsebseb> I want to vm test :)
[14:37] <charlie-tca> sebsebseb: I will be testing unity later today or tommorrow myself. I think it is great!
[14:39] <htorque> njpatel said in his blog, that "[...] we'll make a best attempt at running, trying to gracefully degrade through features, but at least getting to you a panel, launcher and places."
[14:39] <sebsebseb> charlie-tca: I liked trying in 10.10 like I did
[14:39] <htorque> so maybe they can turn off enough features so nouveau and co can run, dunno
[14:39] <htorque> source: http://njpatel.blogspot.com/2010/10/marks-keynote-at-uds-spoke-about-one-of.html
[14:40] <charlie-tca> nouveau will not allow compiz to run. Once unity defaults to compiz, those of us with nvidia cards will probably fall back to unity without compiz until the hardware drviers are installed
[14:41] <penguin42> charlie-tca: So unity runs ok without compiz?
[14:41] <charlie-tca> yes
[14:41] <penguin42> hmm that is more encouraging
[14:41] <charlie-tca> The basic unity package does not need compiz
[14:41] <sebsebseb> Unity seems to be ok really, end userwise that is,  technically well their are differnet views.  For example some think its great and may give Gnome Shell some competition,  others think it is basically a fork of the Gnome  Interface.
[14:42] <sebsebseb> Thing is with Unity, other distros won't just do it, so hmm.
[14:42] <charlie-tca> Even a week at UDS with out a computer is a great experience!
[14:42] <sebsebseb> charlie-tca: Did you?
[14:42] <penguin42> charlie-tca: You went to UDS without a computer?
[14:43] <charlie-tca> sebsebseb: yes
[14:43] <charlie-tca> penguin42: yes
[14:43] <htorque> a week without computer - crazy! :D
[14:43] <penguin42> charlie-tca: Now while I can appreciate getting away from it a bit, UDS seems an odd place to go without a computer
[14:43] <charlie-tca> A computer is not a absolute necessity! A desire to help is, though
[14:43] <sebsebseb> htorque: I nearly did that, but then turns out I could use the net a bit, at the place I was staying,  no didn't go to UDS, but yes I did go some where hot :)
[14:43] <charlie-tca> Gotta have something smaller then a desktop there!
[14:44] <sebsebseb> and enough Internet time to find out what was going on with UDS and such :)
[14:44] <sebsebseb> well some of what was going on
[14:44] <charlie-tca> sebsebseb: when the Unity package is ready, it will be offered upstream and to other distros. At this time, it is not considered ready for that
[14:45] <sebsebseb> charlie-tca: to upstream?  you mean Debian or?  I mean Canonical will be the upstream?
[14:45] <penguin42> charlie-tca: I had tried unity a few months ago on Maverick and must admit I didn't like what I saw of the way that the menu bar stuff was done - it seemed a bit flaky
[14:45] <charlie-tca> penguin42: not really getting away from it without the computer. UDS is a chance to take place in the future of computing!
[14:46] <charlie-tca> sebsebseb: to upstream means to debian and gnome
[14:46] <sebsebseb> penguin42: also the bar down the left, yes its not a dock, but it is similar hmm
[14:46] <charlie-tca> Canonical will be upstream for unity, but the entire package will be available for them if they want if include it
[14:46] <penguin42> charlie-tca: I listed to many of the sessions on icecast - I hadn't realised UDS has just so many parallel tracks
[14:47] <charlie-tca> heh
[14:47] <charlie-tca> It is very hard to hit them all, too
[14:47] <sebsebseb> charlie-tca: well as long as Unity isn't Ubuntu only for ages,  then I guess things will be ok :)
[14:47] <penguin42> something like 10 at a time
[14:47] <htorque> penguin42, yeah, next time i have to get an additional pair of ears
[14:47] <charlie-tca> Try it in person! You can not hit everything at once
[14:48] <penguin42> what I really worry about with gnome-shell and unity is that they'll do a KDE4 - i.e. something that will take years to stabilise and still be missing features the previous one had
[14:48] <charlie-tca> Unity is going to be smoothed out for Natty. Also, accessibility will be included.
[14:48] <sebsebseb> charlie-tca:  anyway Desktop Linux is meant to be very much so about choice, from the distros, to the programs people have installed, from browsers, to user interfaces, to IRC clients, to well nearly whatever, you get what I mean :)
[14:49] <charlie-tca> Unity is just a shell for gnome, the user can opt for gnome-shell instead when logging in
[14:49] <sebsebseb> charlie-tca: yep I know
[14:49] <sebsebseb> charlie-tca: and its good to have a choice between Gnome Shell and Unity I guess, but not only for Ubuntu, other distros as well :)
[14:50] <charlie-tca> That is a long range goal, too
[14:50] <sebsebseb> charlie-tca: however makes sense to have it working quite well in Ubuntu before offering it properly to upstream I guess,  but then again, there  would be people using other distros, who would test in their distro and such
[14:51] <charlie-tca> sebsebseb: don't want them to have to try to offer a broken version of unity, though.
[14:51] <IdleOne> if Debian wants to offer Unity they will downstream
[14:51] <IdleOne> Ubuntu is the upstream for Unity
[14:51]  * penguin42 probably should put Unity on <--- this natty laptop and see if I can get on with it, or start filing bugs
[14:51] <sebsebseb> IdleOne: yep
[14:52] <sebsebseb> IdleOne: as I said earlier Canonical are the upstream for Unity
[14:52] <IdleOne> so Ubuntu does not need to offer Unity to upstream
[14:52] <IdleOne> Unity is open and any distro who wants to use it are welcome to
[14:52] <charlie-tca> And I will say, UDS without a computer is way BETTER than no UDS with a computer!
[14:53] <sebsebseb> charlie-tca: surely computers at UDS you can borrow anyway?
[14:53] <charlie-tca> other people have spares with them
[14:53] <sebsebseb> spares?
[14:53] <IdleOne> spares = extra
[14:55] <charlie-tca> It was enough for me to try and follow what I could and actively participate. I hate worrying about equipment I don't own.
[14:57] <sebsebseb> charlie-tca: of course there is a little issue,  the CA may stop other distros from wanting to use it
[14:57] <charlie-tca> We won't discuss that yet
[14:59] <penguin42> CA?
[14:59] <sebsebseb> penguin42: Copyright Assignments
[14:59] <penguin42> ah
[15:01]  * sebsebseb hopes Desktop Unity will work ok in Virtualbox :)
[15:02] <charlie-tca> If you have 3d in VBox, it should
[15:02] <charlie-tca> unfortunately, nvidia = hardware driver = no 3d in VBox?
[15:02] <sebsebseb> charlie-tca: don't think I have done Compiz or anything like that before in vm, but yeah I guess its just have the driver installed on the host OS,  and then also tell it to do 3D support in the vm
[15:02] <sebsebseb> charlie-tca: and maybe even install the propritary Nivida criver into the Ubuntu vm?
[15:03] <penguin42> depends on the VM system as to whether it can pass 3d stuff through; for example there is discussion of one for kvm,b ut only early
[15:04] <charlie-tca> um, Don't know  if you can install the hardware driver in VBox. Perhaps installing guest additions will make things work, though
[15:04] <sebsebseb> charlie-tca: and testing from the standard Live CD probably won't really work out, since  it will want to install the Nivida driver, and then restart x or whatever you know.  hmm,  but maybe you can make a remaster CD  with the driver already part of it, and try like that, I don't kow.
[15:04] <sebsebseb> well I guess if its set up right, can vm test it :)
[15:05] <charlie-tca> I have to try the live cd. It seems like a persistent install will work, though
[15:05] <sebsebseb> persistent install? you mean from a Live USB for example, with the settings saved?
[15:05] <charlie-tca> yes, but you can also do that from the live cd
[15:06] <sebsebseb> how?  if  installing the nvidia driver, will want to log out
[15:07] <charlie-tca> If the settings are saved, why won't it save them regardless of media used to run it?
[15:07] <charlie-tca> If I tell the live cd to save my settings on a hard drive, it will.
[15:07] <sebsebseb> yeah can maybe save the settings onto a USB
[15:07] <kklimonda_> hello
[15:07] <sebsebseb> or something
[15:08] <sebsebseb> kklimonda_: Hello
[15:08] <kklimonda_> bah, 16 hours long journey back was bad but still uds was worth it.
[15:09] <charlie-tca> The image does not care if you tell it to use a USB partition or hard drive partition to save to. It only wants to know where to save.
[15:09] <charlie-tca> 16 hours? ouch!
[15:10] <BUGabundo> hey hey kklimonda_
[15:11] <BUGabundo> fun ?
[15:11] <sebsebseb> charlie-tca: ok well hopefuly I don't have to put Ubuntu back on this computer to test Unity Desktop 11.04.
[15:11]  * sebsebseb waits for the distro he wants to use to be made, whilst using Fedora in the mean time on here :)
[15:11] <kklimonda_> BUGabundo: yeah - it was great meeting all the people one knows only from irc.
[15:12] <sebsebseb> kklimonda_: yeah can be fun to meet Intenret people, 16 hours back though?  where you live?
[15:12] <BUGabundo> kklimonda_: have fun : http://paste.ubuntu.com/523306/ http://paste.ubuntu.com/523297/
[15:12] <kklimonda_> charlie-tca: heh, I had to fly through Chicago and wait 2 or 3 hours for my plane there so that's why it took so long
[15:12] <kklimonda_> sebsebseb: Poland
[15:13] <kklimonda_> BUGabundo: nice, how one gets such a nifty tool?
[15:13] <htorque> is the uds group photo online somewhere?
[15:14] <BUGabundo> kklimonda_: hummm??? you don't know about PM? (package manager)
[15:14] <yofel> . . . does someone have an idea what apt want's from me? I already tried to remove the lists, didn't help http://paste.ubuntu.com/523309/
[15:14] <sebsebseb> kklimonda_: uh plane back was about 7 hours for you?  however sure with other travelling and such could be like 16 hours I guess.
[15:14] <kklimonda_> BUGabundo: nope
[15:14] <BUGabundo> no you do :P
[15:14] <kklimonda_> sebsebseb: it was 8:30 because we had a good wind ;)
[15:14] <kklimonda_> the flight from Warsaw to NY took 9:20
[15:15] <BUGabundo> yofel: removing lists didn't help?
[15:15] <sebsebseb> kklimonda_: you flew to New York?
[15:15] <BUGabundo> nor apt clean?
[15:15] <yofel> BUGabundo: nope
[15:15] <kklimonda_> sebsebseb: yes, I didn't get a direct connection between Warsaw and Orlando for some reason
[15:15] <BUGabundo> yofel: change mirror then
[15:16] <yofel> BUGabundo: that's the dbgsym server... does that have mirrors?
[15:16] <sebsebseb> kklimonda_: ah ok that explains it, well neither did we, when we went to Orlando just over two years ago
[15:17] <kklimonda_> and I've learnt something new - don't buy a 1000 page long book for a flight. There is no way to reas such a brick ;)
[15:17] <charlie-tca> yofel: looks like a temporary unavailable server. I did not think dbgsym has mirrors.
[15:18] <BUGabundo> yofel:  no
[15:18] <BUGabundo> take it out for now ?
[15:19] <yofel> charlie-tca: well, the odd thing is that only that one pc errors out (amd64 natty) my other pcs (i386 natty and amd64 mav) work fine :S
[15:20] <penguin42> yofel: Disk full?
[15:20] <yofel> penguin42: 13GiB free
[15:21] <yofel> is there a way to make apt very verbose? 'undetermined error' doesn't help much..
[15:22] <penguin42> yofel: ltrace :-)
[15:22] <yofel> -.- well, worth a try
[15:27] <yofel> hm, strace says: 'stat("/var/lib/apt/lists/ddebs.ubuntu.com_dists_lucid-proposed_multiverse_binary-amd64_Packages", 0x7fff4eaa42a0) = -1 ENOENT (No such file or directory)' o.O
[15:28] <yofel> manually touching the file first gets rid of the error, wth...
[15:28] <penguin42> odd
[15:29] <yofel> remove the file and the error is back...
[15:40] <BUGabundo> wow that was ugly... lockup :\
[16:05] <yofel> was a bug in apt 0.8.7 it seems, the update to 0.8.8 seems to have fixed it
[16:42] <penguin42> damn, I wonder which .config option I need for lvm to actually work
[17:02] <penguin42> TToTD: Remember initrd in your config
[19:26] <alex_mayorga> Is bug 476866 getting fixed in Natty?
[19:27] <alex_mayorga> Looks like I have that on my laptop too, but mine is a Sony VAIO
[19:29] <Ian_Corne> alex_mayorga: I have a vaio, did you have to enable a kernel option to get it working (the touchpad)
[19:30] <alex_mayorga> Ian_Corne, I've just stumbled into the bug today
[19:31] <alex_mayorga> Ian_Corne: do you know the workaround?
[19:34] <Ian_Corne> alex_mayorga: I don't sorry
[19:34] <Ian_Corne> I don't even have the touchpad tab in the gui config
[19:34] <Ian_Corne> and going via gconf-editor doesn't work either
[19:42] <alex_mayorga> Ian_Corne: bad stuff
[19:44] <alex_mayorga> Ian_Corne: so you don't have "Touchpad" tab on "Mouse Preferences"
[19:46] <Ian_Corne> nope
[19:47] <Ian_Corne> but I _can_ click with the touchpad, so it's not a normal mouse either
[19:52] <alex_mayorga> Ian_Corne: I do have the tab here, but no two finger scrolling, I've found something, let me reboot and see how that goes
[20:02] <alex_mayorga> Ian_Corne: no luck, I tried installing gpointing-device-settings but it didn't do either
[20:02] <Ian_Corne> hmm
[20:04] <Ian_Corne> what about gsynatpics?
[20:05] <Ian_Corne> oh it's the gpointing thing :p
[20:06] <Ian_Corne> it only show as a "ImPS/2 Generic Wheel Mouse"
[20:06] <Ian_Corne> which is obviously wrong :p
[20:16] <alex_mayorga> I guess I'll propose the bug for natty
[20:18] <alex_mayorga> how do you nominate bugs now?
[20:19] <Ian_Corne> Well my problem is different from yours
[20:20] <Ian_Corne> by default my touchpad is not recognised
[20:21] <yofel> alex_mayorga: nomination shouldn't have changed
[20:31] <alex_mayorga> yofel: maybe I lost powers on launchpad then
[20:32] <yofel> for a simple nomination a common account should be sufficient
[20:34] <alex_mayorga> yofel: can you help with BUG 476866
[20:35] <alex_mayorga> now my caps lock seems to be nuts :(
[20:38] <rww> yofel: http://blog.launchpad.net/general/new-features-for-bug-supervisors
[20:38] <rww> tl;dr: only bug supervisors can nominate bugs now :\
[20:38] <yofel> oh, I missed that o.O
[20:39] <yofel> and I don't get why...
[20:40] <rww> I only vaguely know what that sentence means, I just remember it from when it was on Planet Ubuntu ;)
[20:40] <yofel> the fix released locking is good though
[20:49] <alex_mayorga> how do one turns into bug supervisor
[20:49] <yofel> thinking a bit more it makes sense I guess considering it was misused a lot in the past and you can't re-nominate stuff
[20:50] <alex_mayorga> is that the beginning of Ubuntu's closure?
[20:50] <yofel> alex_mayorga: you become a developer or motu or at least apply for bug control membership (bugsquad)
[20:50] <alex_mayorga> yofel: I'll look into it
[20:51] <yofel> alex_mayorga: no, it's not, the bug tracker is for communication between developers, not a place where users complain
[20:51] <yofel> and the release nomination is usually just for SRUs
[20:51] <yofel> alex_mayorga: you need to have worked for the bugsquad for a while for the last option
[20:52] <yofel> alex_mayorga: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuBugControl
[20:52] <yofel> and I don't see why that bug should be nominated for natty, the main task is always against the development release, so the bug automatically affects natty
[21:11] <alex_mayorga> yofel: thanks on the pointers and clarification
[21:11] <alex_mayorga> so were do we users complain then?
[21:17] <yofel> well, if you need help first you can ask for support here on IRC or by asking a question on launchpad (and other ways I can't think of currently) - the bug tracker is for reporting software behavior that should not happen to develpers, so 476866 is a valid bug, but please don't *expect* to get any immediate help there as that's not the developers job
[21:18] <Volkodav> there are forums too
[21:18] <yofel> in my case I never actually tried to get two finger scrolling to work here except on my EeePC which has it hardware-side
[22:27] <MatBoy> is swap on LVM possible ? I thought it was no problem but it cannot mount during boot it says