| nigelb | AlanBell: well, on the next upstream release, debian will have the fix | 06:14 |
|---|---|---|
| nigelb | and we can sync it | 06:14 |
| nigelb | the quickest way to ease it is to offer an nmu to the debian folks or ask if they can do it themselves | 06:14 |
| charlie-tca | AlanBell: good morning | 13:11 |
| charlie-tca | What are the log files we need with dasher bugs to allow us to work them the easiest? | 13:11 |
| AlanBell | morning | 13:16 |
| AlanBell | the ones with line numbers! | 13:16 |
| UndiFineD | heh AlanBell | 13:17 |
| AlanBell | if you can crash it whilst running under gdb you can see the code it stops on | 13:17 |
| * AlanBell isn't really a gdb expert | 13:17 | |
| AlanBell | but I did get it to crash nicely once with gdb | 13:17 |
| charlie-tca | heh | 13:18 |
| charlie-tca | Okay. I will dig into it deeper then and see what I can do. | 13:18 |
| AlanBell | nigelb: so how do we offer an nmu to debian (what is an nmu?) so that it is in debian in time to be pulled into Natty? | 13:27 |
| === maco2 is now known as maco | ||
| UndiFineD | nmu = Non-maintainer upload | 13:32 |
| UndiFineD | http://wiki.debian.org/NonMaintainerUpload?action=show&redirect=NMU | 13:35 |
| AlanBell | interesting stuff, debian is complicated! | 13:53 |
| UndiFineD | they are | 13:54 |
| AlanBell | as this is an issue in compiz I guess it all depends when the next compiz release happens before it gets into debian testing | 13:56 |
| AlanBell | and whether that is before or after the pull to Natty | 13:56 |
| UndiFineD | AlanBell, is there a braille font ? | 13:57 |
| AlanBell | http://packages.debian.org/testing/x11/compiz | 13:59 |
| AlanBell | there is in TeX | 14:00 |
| UndiFineD | ok, that is a bit poor | 14:01 |
| UndiFineD | if we had such a font, it could overide the default in browser for example | 14:02 |
| AlanBell | and there is this project which needs some help getting on Linux http://sourceforge.net/projects/odt2braille/ | 14:02 |
| AlanBell | UndiFineD: well it isn't much good as a font without an embosser of some sort | 14:02 |
| UndiFineD | I don have the hardware, but it seems logical | 14:03 |
| AlanBell | http://www.searchfreefonts.com/free/braille.htm | 14:04 |
| AlanBell | I am not sure that a braille font would have much practical value in Ubuntu | 14:05 |
| AlanBell | however it would be a great educational resource as one of the commenters on that page points out, she was teaching kindergarten kids about braille | 14:06 |
| UndiFineD | me neither, but if this one truly is free, we could have it packaged for ubuntu | 14:06 |
| AlanBell | all rights reserved | 14:06 |
| AlanBell | ooh, there is a braille unicode block | 14:08 |
| AlanBell | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Braille_Unicode_block | 14:08 |
| * AlanBell files an enhancement request for the Ubuntu font | 14:10 | |
| UndiFineD | oh that will be great | 14:10 |
| AlanBell | bug 669102 | 14:12 |
| ubot2 | Launchpad bug 669102 in ubuntu-font-family "Expansion: include Braille U+2800 to U+28FF (affects: 1) (heat: 6)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/669102 | 14:12 |
| AlanBell | wow, bug 650729 | 14:14 |
| ubot2 | Launchpad bug 650729 in ubuntu-font-family-sources (Ubuntu) (and 1 other project) "Expansion: Ubuntu Font should support pIqaD (Klingon) (affects: 1) (heat: 124)" [Wishlist,Invalid] https://launchpad.net/bugs/650729 | 14:14 |
| UndiFineD | subscribed | 14:15 |
| AlanBell | UndiFineD: I think it is probably best to package a Braille font | 15:17 |
| AlanBell | that code block is just the combinations of all the dots available, it tells you nothing about how to type stuff with it | 15:18 |
| UndiFineD | true, I was looking for structure too | 15:18 |
| AlanBell | and the use case of a teacher educating a class about Braille, or someone manually embossing a sign based on a printed template just needs a font | 15:19 |
| AlanBell | !info console-braille | 15:34 |
| ubot2 | AlanBell: console-braille (source: console-braille): Fonts and keymaps for reading/typing unicode braille. In component universe, is extra. Version 1.2ubuntu1 (maverick), package size 27 kB, installed size 356 kB | 15:34 |
| AlanBell | !info dots | 15:34 |
| ubot2 | AlanBell: dots (source: dots): A braille typesetting program for GNOME. In component universe, is extra. Version 0.0.20100108-2 (maverick), package size 12 kB, installed size 184 kB | 15:34 |
| * AlanBell tests | 15:35 | |
| AlanBell | well dots is of interest to people typesetting books in braille, it gives LaTeX output by the look of it, which would feed into that TeX font with braille | 15:38 |
| UndiFineD | http://www.fontspace.com/philippe-blondel/braille <- freeware | 15:44 |
| UndiFineD | philing@philing.net | 15:46 |
| AlanBell | http://www.rnib.org.uk/livingwithsightloss/readingwriting/braille/braille/codes/Pages/contracted_braille.aspx | 15:48 |
| AlanBell | freeware does not neccessarily mean Debian standard Free Software | 15:49 |
| UndiFineD | he has declared it royalty free | 15:50 |
| AlanBell | yeah, just reading the license | 15:50 |
| AlanBell | no modifications allowed | 15:50 |
| AlanBell | not sure if that is a barrier or not | 15:51 |
| AlanBell | Il faudra cependant, ni la modifier, ni changer son nom | 15:52 |
| UndiFineD | with contracted it becomes much harder | 15:56 |
| AlanBell | yes, but I think that is already quite well supported | 15:57 |
| AlanBell | that is what dots does for you I think | 15:57 |
| UndiFineD | I guess we would need word by word replacements | 15:57 |
| AlanBell | what I want to do is deal with the non-skilled use of braille grade 1 | 15:58 |
| AlanBell | so a teacher would be able to use it in a lesson printing out the name of each child and getting them to make the bumps | 15:58 |
| AlanBell | or someone could print a sign for a door and with a bit of metal, a nail and hammer mark it "Gents" or "Ladies" for example | 15:59 |
| AlanBell | the "typesetting a book for the blind" use case is already well served with the TeX stuff | 16:00 |
| UndiFineD | but it would be much eassier if a font would make the internet available to them | 16:02 |
| AlanBell | that is what this is for -> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Refreshable_Braille_display | 16:02 |
| UndiFineD | http://www.synapseadaptive.com/ | 16:14 |
| AlanBell | I wonder if some kind of Ubuntu dotty day would be a good idea http://www.rnib.org.uk/getinvolved/fundraising/localfundraising/dottydays/Pages/dotty_day_work.aspx | 16:59 |
| charlie-tca | AlanBell: help. How do I get the screen-reader to move from the panels to the installer window? I am trying to install 10.04. | 19:24 |
| AlanBell | hi charlie-tca | 19:25 |
| charlie-tca | Hello | 19:25 |
| charlie-tca | what a deal! | 19:25 |
| AlanBell | how did it get to the panels? | 19:26 |
| charlie-tca | I used Ctrl+Alt+Tab | 19:26 |
| charlie-tca | got to the top panel, picked install from the system menu. Now the screen-reader stays in the panel, even though I can get focus in the install window | 19:27 |
| charlie-tca | using the mouse | 19:27 |
| AlanBell | hmm, odd | 19:27 |
| charlie-tca | With out the mouse, I seem to be stuck in the panel | 19:27 |
| charlie-tca | heh | 19:27 |
| AlanBell | I am using unity on 10.10 right now, not really sure on the panel navigation | 19:28 |
| charlie-tca | well, we know we can't make the installer work in 10.10, but I thought 10.04 worked with orca | 19:28 |
| AlanBell | it did! | 19:35 |
| charlie-tca | weird | 19:35 |
| charlie-tca | No keyboard combination is getting me from the panel after selecting install back to the desktop | 19:35 |
| AlanBell | what is that new desktop recording application? | 19:37 |
| charlie-tca | can't remember | 19:37 |
| charlie-tca | not "recordmydesktop" ? | 19:37 |
| AlanBell | no, something new that does audio as well | 19:37 |
| AlanBell | I was going to do a video of a virtual machine doing the audio install for 10.04 and 10.10 | 19:38 |
| AlanBell | Kazam | 19:39 |
| charlie-tca | I am doing the hardware install of 10.04. I will then email the steps to the release manager to attempt to do one. | 19:40 |
| charlie-tca | hmm, my sound card comes up muted on the live cd environment and on the installation | 20:07 |
| charlie-tca | by the way, AlanBell, I will be testing natty weekly for accessible install ability. | 20:17 |
| AlanBell | great | 20:23 |
| AlanBell | my braille font is coming along nicely | 20:40 |
| AlanBell | I have been meaning to learn Fontforge better for ages and Braille is so nice and easy to draw | 20:40 |
| AlanBell | just six hollow circles and fill them in according to the wikipedia page | 20:41 |
| charlie-tca | Glad to hear it. You do good things. | 20:42 |
| TheMuso | AlanBell: Oh sweet! | 20:44 |
| AlanBell | I will do an article about it and what it is for | 20:46 |
| AlanBell | it isn't for use by blind people directly as such | 20:46 |
| AlanBell | but for teaching about braille, or as a template for manually embossing stuff | 20:47 |
| TheMuso | Understood. | 20:50 |
| TheMuso | It would be useful is there is ever a realtime braille/embossing app written for Linux, similar to how Duxbury presents information on the screen. | 20:51 |
| AlanBell | there is something called dots which seems to do TeX output, I guess not realtime | 20:51 |
| AlanBell | I think there are things to do the grade 2 contractions correctly | 20:52 |
| TheMuso | Right. | 20:52 |
| AlanBell | I think a font could contain some more common contractions as ligatures | 20:54 |
| AlanBell | however that would be a bit confusing for the "teaching primary school kids" use case | 20:55 |
| TheMuso | Yeah. | 20:55 |
| AlanBell | http://people.ubuntu.com/~alanbell/brailletest.pdf | 21:58 |
| * AlanBell is quite pleased with that | 21:58 | |
| AlanBell | it includes all the letters and numbers ^ is the Capital letter follows symbol | 22:01 |
| AlanBell | # is number follows | 22:01 |
| AlanBell | and it includes Apostrophe, full stop, comma, semicolon, exclamation point, quotiation marks (opening and closing) brackets and hypens | 22:01 |
| duanedesign | pretty cool alan | 22:01 |
| AlanBell | oh and & is the contraction for "and" | 22:02 |
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