[06:14] AlanBell: well, on the next upstream release, debian will have the fix [06:14] and we can sync it [06:14] the quickest way to ease it is to offer an nmu to the debian folks or ask if they can do it themselves [13:11] AlanBell: good morning [13:11] What are the log files we need with dasher bugs to allow us to work them the easiest? [13:16] morning [13:16] the ones with line numbers! [13:17] heh AlanBell [13:17] if you can crash it whilst running under gdb you can see the code it stops on [13:17] * AlanBell isn't really a gdb expert [13:17] but I did get it to crash nicely once with gdb [13:18] heh [13:18] Okay. I will dig into it deeper then and see what I can do. [13:27] nigelb: so how do we offer an nmu to debian (what is an nmu?) so that it is in debian in time to be pulled into Natty? === maco2 is now known as maco [13:32] nmu = Non-maintainer upload [13:35] http://wiki.debian.org/NonMaintainerUpload?action=show&redirect=NMU [13:53] interesting stuff, debian is complicated! [13:54] they are [13:56] as this is an issue in compiz I guess it all depends when the next compiz release happens before it gets into debian testing [13:56] and whether that is before or after the pull to Natty [13:57] AlanBell, is there a braille font ? [13:59] http://packages.debian.org/testing/x11/compiz [14:00] there is in TeX [14:01] ok, that is a bit poor [14:02] if we had such a font, it could overide the default in browser for example [14:02] and there is this project which needs some help getting on Linux http://sourceforge.net/projects/odt2braille/ [14:02] UndiFineD: well it isn't much good as a font without an embosser of some sort [14:03] I don have the hardware, but it seems logical [14:04] http://www.searchfreefonts.com/free/braille.htm [14:05] I am not sure that a braille font would have much practical value in Ubuntu [14:06] however it would be a great educational resource as one of the commenters on that page points out, she was teaching kindergarten kids about braille [14:06] me neither, but if this one truly is free, we could have it packaged for ubuntu [14:06] all rights reserved [14:08] ooh, there is a braille unicode block [14:08] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Braille_Unicode_block [14:10] * AlanBell files an enhancement request for the Ubuntu font [14:10] oh that will be great [14:12] bug 669102 [14:12] Launchpad bug 669102 in ubuntu-font-family "Expansion: include Braille U+2800 to U+28FF (affects: 1) (heat: 6)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/669102 [14:14] wow, bug 650729 [14:14] Launchpad bug 650729 in ubuntu-font-family-sources (Ubuntu) (and 1 other project) "Expansion: Ubuntu Font should support pIqaD (Klingon) (affects: 1) (heat: 124)" [Wishlist,Invalid] https://launchpad.net/bugs/650729 [14:15] subscribed [15:17] UndiFineD: I think it is probably best to package a Braille font [15:18] that code block is just the combinations of all the dots available, it tells you nothing about how to type stuff with it [15:18] true, I was looking for structure too [15:19] and the use case of a teacher educating a class about Braille, or someone manually embossing a sign based on a printed template just needs a font [15:34] !info console-braille [15:34] AlanBell: console-braille (source: console-braille): Fonts and keymaps for reading/typing unicode braille. In component universe, is extra. Version 1.2ubuntu1 (maverick), package size 27 kB, installed size 356 kB [15:34] !info dots [15:34] AlanBell: dots (source: dots): A braille typesetting program for GNOME. In component universe, is extra. Version 0.0.20100108-2 (maverick), package size 12 kB, installed size 184 kB [15:35] * AlanBell tests [15:38] well dots is of interest to people typesetting books in braille, it gives LaTeX output by the look of it, which would feed into that TeX font with braille [15:44] http://www.fontspace.com/philippe-blondel/braille <- freeware [15:46] philing@philing.net [15:48] http://www.rnib.org.uk/livingwithsightloss/readingwriting/braille/braille/codes/Pages/contracted_braille.aspx [15:49] freeware does not neccessarily mean Debian standard Free Software [15:50] he has declared it royalty free [15:50] yeah, just reading the license [15:50] no modifications allowed [15:51] not sure if that is a barrier or not [15:52] Il faudra cependant, ni la modifier, ni changer son nom [15:56] with contracted it becomes much harder [15:57] yes, but I think that is already quite well supported [15:57] that is what dots does for you I think [15:57] I guess we would need word by word replacements [15:58] what I want to do is deal with the non-skilled use of braille grade 1 [15:58] so a teacher would be able to use it in a lesson printing out the name of each child and getting them to make the bumps [15:59] or someone could print a sign for a door and with a bit of metal, a nail and hammer mark it "Gents" or "Ladies" for example [16:00] the "typesetting a book for the blind" use case is already well served with the TeX stuff [16:02] but it would be much eassier if a font would make the internet available to them [16:02] that is what this is for -> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Refreshable_Braille_display [16:14] http://www.synapseadaptive.com/ [16:59] I wonder if some kind of Ubuntu dotty day would be a good idea http://www.rnib.org.uk/getinvolved/fundraising/localfundraising/dottydays/Pages/dotty_day_work.aspx [19:24] AlanBell: help. How do I get the screen-reader to move from the panels to the installer window? I am trying to install 10.04. [19:25] hi charlie-tca [19:25] Hello [19:25] what a deal! [19:26] how did it get to the panels? [19:26] I used Ctrl+Alt+Tab [19:27] got to the top panel, picked install from the system menu. Now the screen-reader stays in the panel, even though I can get focus in the install window [19:27] using the mouse [19:27] hmm, odd [19:27] With out the mouse, I seem to be stuck in the panel [19:27] heh [19:28] I am using unity on 10.10 right now, not really sure on the panel navigation [19:28] well, we know we can't make the installer work in 10.10, but I thought 10.04 worked with orca [19:35] it did! [19:35] weird [19:35] No keyboard combination is getting me from the panel after selecting install back to the desktop [19:37] what is that new desktop recording application? [19:37] can't remember [19:37] not "recordmydesktop" ? [19:37] no, something new that does audio as well [19:38] I was going to do a video of a virtual machine doing the audio install for 10.04 and 10.10 [19:39] Kazam [19:40] I am doing the hardware install of 10.04. I will then email the steps to the release manager to attempt to do one. [20:07] hmm, my sound card comes up muted on the live cd environment and on the installation [20:17] by the way, AlanBell, I will be testing natty weekly for accessible install ability. [20:23] great [20:40] my braille font is coming along nicely [20:40] I have been meaning to learn Fontforge better for ages and Braille is so nice and easy to draw [20:41] just six hollow circles and fill them in according to the wikipedia page [20:42] Glad to hear it. You do good things. [20:44] AlanBell: Oh sweet! [20:46] I will do an article about it and what it is for [20:46] it isn't for use by blind people directly as such [20:47] but for teaching about braille, or as a template for manually embossing stuff [20:50] Understood. [20:51] It would be useful is there is ever a realtime braille/embossing app written for Linux, similar to how Duxbury presents information on the screen. [20:51] there is something called dots which seems to do TeX output, I guess not realtime [20:52] I think there are things to do the grade 2 contractions correctly [20:52] Right. [20:54] I think a font could contain some more common contractions as ligatures [20:55] however that would be a bit confusing for the "teaching primary school kids" use case [20:55] Yeah. [21:58] http://people.ubuntu.com/~alanbell/brailletest.pdf [21:58] * AlanBell is quite pleased with that [22:01] it includes all the letters and numbers ^ is the Capital letter follows symbol [22:01] # is number follows [22:01] and it includes Apostrophe, full stop, comma, semicolon, exclamation point, quotiation marks (opening and closing) brackets and hypens [22:01] pretty cool alan [22:02] oh and & is the contraction for "and"