[20:03] <KennethVenken> hi, anybody here? i'm trying to use quickshot to take some screenshots
[20:04] <KennethVenken> i've installed ubuntu 10.04 on a virtualmachine and installed quickshot with the ppa on the site
[20:04] <KennethVenken> but when i start quickshot i need to choose a project. so there isn't i guide that creates a quickshot user
[20:06] <KennethVenken> how do i choose the project?
[20:32] <KennethVenken> anyone?
[20:32] <KennethVenken> need help with quickshot
[21:55] <humphreybc> who's around?
[21:56] <Muscovy> I kindof am.
[21:56] <humphreybc> did you get the email I just sent to the list?
[21:56] <humphreybc> I just want to see if it went through
[21:56] <Muscovy> Nope.
[21:57] <humphreybc> really?
[21:57] <humphreybc> jeez
[21:57] <humphreybc> did you get the one I sent a while ago
[21:57] <humphreybc> announcing that I was back?
[21:57] <Muscovy> Yes.
[21:57] <humphreybc> okay, maybe launchpad mailman is just slwo
[21:59] <humphreybc> it's in the archives'
[21:59] <humphreybc> https://lists.launchpad.net/ubuntu-manual/msg02300.html
[21:59] <godbyk> humphreybc: I got the email.
[21:59] <humphreybc> cool
[21:59] <humphreybc> godbyk: you around for a bit?
[21:59] <humphreybc> I want to discuss it with you
[21:59] <godbyk> humphreybc: Sure, what's up?
[22:00] <humphreybc> read my mail?
[22:00] <godbyk> Yep.
[22:00] <humphreybc> thoughts?
[22:00] <godbyk> Mixed feelings, I guess.
[22:00] <humphreybc> tell me
[22:00] <Muscovy> I guess yearly manuals makes sense.
[22:01] <godbyk> Our current process is obviously not working too well and I think we need to examine it and try to improve it.
[22:01] <humphreybc> yeah
[22:01] <humphreybc> so what I think
[22:01] <humphreybc> is we reduce the goals a bit
[22:01] <humphreybc> and work on our process
[22:01] <humphreybc> once we have that stable, we can actually work on the products
[22:02] <humphreybc> because at the moment it's a mess
[22:02] <humphreybc> it's okayish if people are working full time
[22:02] <humphreybc> but being open source, we can't count on people sticking around
[22:02] <godbyk> Thinking about it, I don't know that reducing the releases to yearly will actually help much. Because we still have to wait until way after UI freeze before we can get screenshots and really start updating the manual.  So there will always be a mad frenzy of activity to get the manual out.
[22:02] <humphreybc> yeah
[22:02] <humphreybc> but
[22:02] <humphreybc> if we aim for the next release as 12.04 LTS
[22:03] <godbyk> It might be easier if we said we would release the manual, say, a month after each Ubuntu release date or something. So we have time to get caught up a bit.
[22:03] <humphreybc> that gives us ~15 months of no manual writing
[22:03] <humphreybc> maybe we just need to utilize the space between releases more
[22:03] <godbyk> While I'd love to see the simultaneous release of translated editions, I'm don't see how we can do that with our current system.
[22:03] <humphreybc> yeah
[22:03] <humphreybc> I really want translations to continue
[22:03] <humphreybc> but I just don't think it's possible in such a short time frame
[22:04] <humphreybc> My vote is to switch manuals to an LTS only release schedule, which gives us some time between now and 12.04 to work on our process
[22:04] <godbyk> I think if we went 15 months without releasing a manual that too much time will have gone by and the manual idea would disappear (or someone else would pick it up).
[22:04] <humphreybc> and because everything is moving to the web, I think USLC is important too
[22:05] <humphreybc> You think people want it so much that someone else would pick it up?
[22:05] <humphreybc> We already have competition from commercial deployments
[22:05] <godbyk> Others have already made small spin-offs.
[22:05] <humphreybc> this is true
[22:05] <humphreybc> I guess we need to figure out what our team is about
[22:06] <godbyk> There are always people popping in to the irc channel or the mailing list asking how they can help.
[22:06] <Muscovy> I think LTSs are too distant.
[22:06] <humphreybc> hm
[22:06] <humphreybc> well
[22:06] <humphreybc> the other option is
[22:06] <humphreybc> skip maverick
[22:06] <humphreybc> work on natty
[22:06] <humphreybc> which is where a lot of the main user facing changes will be
[22:06] <humphreybc> anyway
[22:06] <godbyk> I think we need to overhaul our production system (such that it is) to make it easier for potential translators and authors to do fly-by edits, for instance.
[22:06] <humphreybc> it's not like we've had people breaking down the doors asking where the maverick manual is
[22:07] <humphreybc> yeah
[22:07] <humphreybc> I would also like us to work on stuff that other teams can use
[22:07] <humphreybc> for example, a GUI latex editor
[22:07] <Muscovy> I think we could have got Maverick ready had we started earlier. Most of the Maverick stuff started only about 2 months before the release.
[22:07] <godbyk> But if the focus is switched to the USLC, then we have to ensure that gets enough traction to be useful and does what we want.
[22:07] <humphreybc> but I think maybe the answer to that would lie in the cloud, on the web
[22:08] <humphreybc> I think if we can create USLC to serve as the "hub" for activity, then we've solved a bunch of our issues
[22:08] <humphreybc> but
[22:08] <godbyk> Muscovy: I think that most of the changes that affected the manual didn't occur that early, though.
[22:08] <humphreybc> even I have been questioning whether USLC is necessary
[22:08] <humphreybc> now that we have the stack exchange thing too
[22:08] <godbyk> Muscovy: The alpha releases aren't too different from the previous final release.
[22:08] <humphreybc> I would say USLC is a replacement for help.ubuntu.com
[22:08] <Muscovy> I think we could have gotten a good start in July though.
[22:09] <humphreybc> Muscovy: either way, it's in the past now
[22:09] <humphreybc> I think we need a team meeting
[22:09] <godbyk> Muscovy: Possibly. Back in July we were working on lucid-e2, though, weren't we?  (I can't remember that far back.)
[22:09] <Muscovy> We released in sometime in July.
[22:09] <Muscovy> 22nd, I think?
[22:09] <humphreybc> godbyk: if you could reply to that email with your thoughts so everyone can see, that would be helpful
[22:09] <godbyk> humphreybc: Sure.
[22:10] <humphreybc> I think we've witnessed both the good and the bad this year
[22:10] <humphreybc> what the team can do and what we can't with no leadership or contributors
[22:10] <humphreybc> and it's a bit gap
[22:10] <humphreybc> big *
[22:10] <Omega> I've been a shitty leader, but thanks to Muscovy, we achieved a lot.
[22:11] <humphreybc> so we need to adjust our goals to match what we can achieve. I would say that as our process is simplified, we will get more contributors and then we can inflate our goals as that happens
[22:11] <humphreybc> right now though, it's just too darn hard
[22:11] <humphreybc> which is a shame
[22:11] <Omega> (I was talking about ubuntu tour)
[22:11] <humphreybc> the last thing I want to do is have the team die
[22:11] <Muscovy> I agree in backing up on translations a little. How many translated manuals do we have? I know where's a lot in progress, but if memory serves we only have about 3 others out.
[22:12] <humphreybc> I am ridiculously busy right now, but I'm trying to set aside some time for UMP so we can work out where we're going
[22:12] <humphreybc> Muscovy: yeah
[22:12] <humphreybc> long story short, rosetta was never built for this sort of stuff
[22:13] <humphreybc> what day should we have a meeting?
[22:15] <Muscovy> A weekend I would say.
[22:15] <humphreybc> Tuesday, 2nd November at 21:00 ?
[22:15] <humphreybc> Weekends are hard for me
[22:15] <Muscovy> 21:00 UTC?
[22:15] <Omega> Maybe a friday?
[22:15] <humphreybc> yep
[22:15] <humphreybc> 21:00 UTC
[22:15] <humphreybc> Friday could work
[22:16] <humphreybc> Friday 5th November @ 21:00 UTC
[22:16] <humphreybc> that's 10am saturday my time, 2pm west coast USA, 5pm east coast USA and 9pm friday night UK / Europe
[22:17] <Muscovy> I could make that.
[22:17] <godbyk> Should work for me.
[22:18] <humphreybc> kay
[22:41] <humphreybc> hey daker
[22:41] <humphreybc> I got your email with the website instructions, just have been too busy to look recently but I should be able to have a look tonight and give you some feedback
[22:42] <daker> ok
[22:44] <nisshh> humphreybc, that time for the meeting is 5am for me :(
[22:45] <godbyk> humphreybc: Okay, I just posted my reply to your email. Enjoy!
[22:45] <humphreybc> great
[22:46] <nisshh> humphreybc, i also disagree with your thoughts on the ML, i will post there though
[22:46] <nisshh> some of your thoughts anyway
[22:46] <godbyk> Btw, I spent much of yesterday testing out a new build system for our manual.  Sadly, after waking up today and thinking about it some more, I don't think it'll work for us.  I'm probably just going to write one from scratch so it'll be custom-tailored to our needs.
[22:46] <humphreybc> ok
[22:46] <humphreybc> good contribution to the discussion Kevin
[22:47] <humphreybc> I'll reply after I get back from lunch
[22:47] <humphreybc> nisshh: looking forward to seeing what you have to say too
[22:47] <godbyk> humphreybc: Did you read it already? Or just note its length? ;-)
[22:47] <humphreybc> I read it already
[22:47]  * humphreybc can read fast if he has to
[22:47] <godbyk> Ah, 'kay. :)
[22:47] <humphreybc> and right now i need to head off, late for lunch!
[22:47] <humphreybc> I'll be back on in about ~2 hours
[22:47] <humphreybc> My plan is to work 9-5 Mon - Fri for the next 3 months, btw
[22:48] <nisshh> humphreybc, i somewhat agree with godbyk, releasing less often wont help at all
[22:48] <humphreybc> 9-5 my time, obviously
[22:48] <humphreybc> nisshh: email the list your thoughts and I'll read it there, plus others can read too
[22:48] <nisshh> yeah, will do
[22:48] <humphreybc> cheers!