[01:03] <wgrant> What's happening with vostok these days?
[01:08] <LPCIBot> Project parallel-test build (12): STILL FAILING in 2 hr 11 min: https://hudson.wedontsleep.org/job/parallel-test/12/
[01:26] <lifeless> mwhudson: hey
[01:26] <lifeless> mwhudson: so in the person merge code
[01:26] <lifeless> there is an XXX from you
[01:26] <lifeless> about recipes and a function to write.
[01:26] <lifeless> but no bug #
[01:26] <mwhudson> ah oops
[01:26] <lifeless> did you forget to put the bug # in, or is the bug mythical? It seems like an important before-live-todo, to me
[01:27] <mwhudson> i don't remember filing a bug :/
[01:27] <lifeless> perhaps you could ?
[01:27] <mwhudson> this is about person merge not blowing up if you merge two accounts that have a recipe of the same name
[01:27] <lifeless> I would assume so
[01:28] <lifeless> also, I have sent a needs-to-be-digested mail to the list about code structure
[01:28] <lifeless> I'm totally sure its impenetrable due to jetlag :)
[01:28] <mwhudson> well, i'm pretty sure it would be to me :-)
[02:02] <lifeless>     Hard / Soft  Page ID
[02:02] <lifeless>      266 /    0  Archive:EntryResource:getBuildSummariesForSourceIds
[02:02] <lifeless>      162 /  260  BugTask:+index
[02:02] <lifeless>      133 /  161  CodeImportSchedulerApplication:CodeImportSchedulerAPI
[02:02] <lifeless>      121 /   43  Person:+commentedbugs
[02:02] <lifeless>      107 /  282  Distribution:+bugs
[02:02] <lifeless>      100 /    0  MailingListApplication:MailingListAPIView
[02:02] <lifeless>       29 /   53  Archive:+packages
[02:02] <lifeless>       26 / 1956  Archive:+index
[02:02] <lifeless>       21 /   25  Milestone:+index
[02:02] <lifeless>       15 /   85  POFile:+translate
[02:15] <thumper> lifeless: did arsenic get new code?
[02:16] <thumper> lifeless: MailingListApplication:MailingListAPIView lives there
[02:16] <thumper> lifeless: and while I did only one method, it should have helped
[02:16] <thumper> lifeless: see my note about getting the method used into the pageid for xmlrpc calls
[02:17] <lifeless> no
[02:17] <lifeless> its a SPOF at the moment
[02:18] <lifeless> there is an RT to fix that
[02:18] <lifeless> when thats done, it will be in the nodowntime set
[02:18] <lifeless> thumper: I replied about the xmlrpc pageid
[02:18] <lifeless> thumper: 'yes we can change it, there is a bug already I think
[02:18] <lifeless> paraphrasing
[02:19] <thumper> lifeless: did you? must of missed it
[02:19] <lifeless> 11:58 < lifeless> whats arsenic
[02:19] <lifeless> 11:59 < lifeless> yes, there is a bug already
[02:19] <thumper> ah
[02:20] <thumper> yes, see it now
[02:20]  * thumper goes to make a coffee
[02:29] <lifeless> wgrant: when are your exams done with ?
[02:29] <wgrant> lifeless: 23rd.
[02:30] <lifeless> of nov?
[02:31] <wgrant> Ja.
[02:31] <lifeless> kk
[02:31] <lifeless> lots of prep time then ;)
[02:31] <lifeless> gl
[02:31] <wgrant> Thanks.
[02:32] <thumper> wgrant: how many exams?
[02:32] <wgrant> thumper: Just the three.
[02:32] <thumper> not too bad then :)
[02:32] <wgrant> Since the fourth subject was the project, which lacks an exam.
[02:33] <wgrant> Indeed.
[02:33] <wgrant> 10, 11, 23
[02:43] <thumper> I remember my first year exams, Saturday am, Tuesday am, Tuesday pm, Thursday am, Thursday pm, Friday pm, then two weeks break before the last two
[02:44] <wgrant> Weekend exams? Cruel.
[02:45] <thumper> yeah
[02:51] <spm> try having your 21st birthday in the middle of exam week. :-(
[02:53] <thumper> spm: I got married the day before I turned 21 :)
[02:53] <spm> thumper: so what I'm hearing, unhappy for pretty much the same reason??? :-P
[02:53] <thumper> no comment
[02:53] <spm> heh
[02:57] <thumper> there is something wrong if the builds are taking 7 hours :(
[03:46] <EdwinGrubbs> lifeless: sinzui mentioned that you did some research into the whole distro milestone +index timeout when there are lots of bugs. It seems that it is just spending a ton of time creating all the storm objects. Do you have any other insight?
[03:51]  * thumper marvels at the amount of yak hair in blueprints
[03:51]  * thumper has the clippers out
[03:54] <lifeless> EdwinGrubbs: I setup eager loading
[03:54] <lifeless> EdwinGrubbs: for both bugs and milestones
[03:55] <lifeless> EdwinGrubbs: but I have only turned it on in one code path (to ensure I could actually deliver)
[03:55] <lifeless> EdwinGrubbs: which pageid / bug are you looking at.
[03:55] <EdwinGrubbs> lifeless: https://lp-oops.canonical.com/oops.py/?oopsid=OOPS-1765ED1258
[03:55] <EdwinGrubbs> bug 638924
[03:55] <_mup_> Bug #638924: Milestone:+index timeouts with many bugs <pg83> <timeout> <Launchpad Registry:In Progress by edwin-grubbs> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/638924>
[03:59] <wgrant> thumper: Was Blueprint touched significantly after its initial drop?
[03:59] <thumper> wgrant: not much no
[04:00] <thumper> wgrant: I now have a pipeline: ~/src/launchpad/blueprint-yak-shaving
[04:00] <thumper> if anything was a test for not needing a review, this is
[04:05] <wgrant> Heh.
[04:06] <StevenK> thumper: So, I've done something surprising.
[04:06] <StevenK> thumper: Robert Ancell was talking to me about specs not being exported over the API, so I made them be, in anger, on two plane flights.
[04:06] <thumper> StevenK: you've moved to NZ?
[04:07] <lifeless> thumper: its certainly a consideration
[04:07] <lifeless> StevenK: have you moved the security checks?
[04:07] <StevenK> lifeless: There's security checks?
[04:07] <lifeless> StevenK: james_w has a branch that exports specs over the API; its blocked on that change.
[04:07] <StevenK> Rargh, didn't know that
[04:07] <thumper> StevenK: yeah, too many checks done in the browser code
[04:07] <StevenK> Speaking of, I should charge my laptop
[04:07] <thumper> I've started shaving blueprints...
[04:08] <thumper> but it will take some time to see the shape of things
[04:08] <thumper> under all that hair :)
[04:08] <thumper> StevenK: but just think of the fun you had :)
[04:08] <StevenK> Hah
[04:08] <StevenK> It wasn't that bad, I'm just curious why I could only get close, but not all the way
[04:09] <lifeless> StevenK: old LP code did security checks at the browser layer
[04:09] <lifeless> StevenK: blueprints is old LP code
[04:09] <StevenK> (I can grab a specifications object from lplib, and iterate over it, but it returns nothing)
[04:10] <thumper> heh
[04:10] <thumper> StevenK: it has an entry, but nothing exported
[04:10] <thumper> StevenK: mildly shit
[04:11] <StevenK> thumper, lifeless: To be perfectly honest, I did it for shits and giggles, while I was bored, so I'm happy enough to toss the work away.
[04:11] <lifeless> StevenK: no worries
[04:11] <lifeless> StevenK: I would love to see it happen
[04:11] <StevenK> thumper: Oh, I fixed that. I can post a diff if you have tissues to stem the bleeding
[04:12] <thumper> StevenK: I've more a problem with who sets what
[04:12] <thumper> :)
[04:12] <StevenK> I was also curious why I couldn't export Choice() elements where the vocab is in quotes, but can if it's a real object.
[04:13] <StevenK> Right, now I get what james_w is blocked on.
[04:13] <lifeless> Edwin-zzz: ah, yes
[04:13] <lifeless> Edwin-zzz: so thats high python time
[04:13] <thumper> StevenK: it'll have to do with the method trying to work out what is valid
[04:13] <StevenK> lifeless: When did you get home, by the way?
[04:13] <lifeless> Edwin-zzz: I'd get a profile trace of that on [qa]staging. Will mail you.
[04:15] <StevenK> thumper: Hm, I hadn't considered that, but it would make sense
[04:16] <StevenK> Starting to seriously consider a nanna-nap, and it's only 3:16pm
[04:25] <lifeless> StevenK: 10:20am arrival
[04:25] <StevenK> lifeless: At home, or the airport?
[04:25] <lifeless> jtv: so, we're experimenting in testtools and a few other projects with
[04:25] <lifeless> StevenK: airport, home @11
[04:26] <StevenK> lifeless: Landed at 0825, home at 1140
[04:26] <wgrant> StevenK: The empty collection is probably because of the lack of a launchpad.View adapter for ISpecification.
[04:26] <lifeless> jtv: wishlist = fallback, medium = 'something we thought worked doesn't', critical = 'blocks project doing a release'
[04:26] <jtv> lifeless: the awkward marriage between the "problem reporting" and "task tracking" faces of bug trackers has bothered me for a long time, so I'm all on board… if you've been thinking about this, I'd be happy to introduce you to kirit for constructive discussion.
[04:26] <lifeless> jtv: I had a great discussion with persia - theres a commons problem too.
[04:27] <lifeless> bugs are global scope; work prioritisation is local (FSVO local) scope
[04:27] <StevenK> wgrant: Ahh. However, I'm now not going to talk about it, since james_w has already done work on it.
[04:27] <stub> spm: Do you know much about Puppet, and is it something we should be looking at for Launchpad configuration, scheduling or anything?
[04:27] <lifeless> stub: I know a bit :) - no, no and no.
[04:28] <lifeless> stub: the sysadmins will be using it to manage a growing set of services; for what we're doing/developing we should effectively ignore it, for now.
[04:28] <stub> wondering if it was useful for readonly switch, or LPCONFIG type stuff.
[04:29] <lifeless> it may be able to replace the deployment scripts eventually.
[04:29] <lifeless> dunno about the readonly angle; offhand anyway.
[04:29] <lifeless> perhaps setting a feature flag would be best for readonly.
[04:30] <lifeless> it would propogate to the slave, be found there and be locked on until someone pokes more directly. [/wildarse thought from jetlagged person]
[04:30] <stub> 'cept feature flags are in the database, and changing to read-only mode switches to a database that was broken out of replication before the switch was set ;)
[04:30] <lifeless> stub: is that ordering changable ?
[04:31] <stub> No - breaking the slave out of replication involves removing the replication triggers on every table and subsequent locking.
[04:31] <jtv> And I guess it complicates the case where you go to read-only because you lose the master.
[04:32] <stub> Anyway - we can't really ask the database if we are in read-only mode, because we need to know if we are in read-only mode to decide what database to talk to.
[04:34] <lifeless> gotcha
[04:34] <lifeless> the ini file you added is probably simplest for now
[04:34] <StevenK> wgrant: And ohloh is still counting lines of source code, after 1 restart and, what, 3 weeks?
[04:35] <spm> stub: not vast amounts no; but will be in Syd next week doing a course on same.
[04:35] <wgrant> StevenK: At least it's on step 3 now!
[04:35] <StevenK> But it has been for a week
[04:35] <stub> I think we should stop using Zope's email delivery, instead storing emails in the database and having a cronscript or daemon that does the delivery. Pretty trivial, easier to improve later with things like delivery failure, and sidesteps the SMTP ZCML gumph.
[04:35] <wgrant> StevenK: I think it's even slower than Launchpad git imports used to be.
[04:36] <lifeless> stub: I'd like to know whats up before we reimplement exim/postfix - if you see what I mean.
[04:36] <StevenK> stub: If you suggest writing EmailJob, I Will Find You
[04:37] <stub> Nothing so complex :)
[04:38] <stub> lifeless: At the moment appservers spool emails to the SMTP server during request. If we fix queued delivery, the appservers spool emails to the SMTP server in a separate thread. But why have the appservers do it at all?
[04:39] <lifeless> stub: the expansion from intent->mails I'm delighted to move out of webapp request handling
[04:39] <lifeless> stub: I don't really care if thats a Job or a thread.
[04:40] <jtv> spm: just realized the humorous chance I missed Sydney…  to go around telling everyone how great their city and country are and, if this is just a local capital, how incredible Canberra must be then.
[04:40] <lifeless> stub: mail sending is sometimes massively slower than expected, and we should fix that.
[04:40] <lifeless> stub: at the moment the appservers spool *after* the commit *before the request ends*
[04:40] <lifeless> which is a little odd :)
[04:40] <stub> lifeless: Yes. In request delivery is slow, queued delivery is broken. We can fix queued delivery upstream, or move to a different model which I think is better in the long run.
[04:41] <stub> I'm suggesting still allowing the appservers to assemble the actual emails, but stuff them into the database rather than do the delivery themselves.
[04:42] <stub> Probably the same amount of work as fixing queued delivery.
[04:45] <lifeless> stub: perf wise I'd expect it to be slower
[04:45] <lifeless> stub: local mail spools /should/ be millisecond fast to accept things
[04:46] <lifeless> anyhow
[04:46] <lifeless> halt()
[04:46] <wgrant> Anything sending more than a couple of emails from a request is probably a bug.
[04:46] <stub> pickle vs. store.execute()
[04:47] <StevenK> wgrant: Such as, say, updates to bugs?
[04:47] <wgrant> StevenK: They don't.
[04:47] <wgrant> StevenK: They use an external process.
[04:47] <wgrant> StevenK: But still manage to be mortifyingly slow.
[04:47] <StevenK> Pity, I was hoping to be ironic
[04:48] <stub> wgrant: Agreed. But we can't control how long the SMTP server we are talking to will take before the email is handed off, unless we get a dedicated one we can turn off stuff like DNS checks etc.
[04:48] <wgrant> stub: True.
[04:49] <lifeless> stub: we have a dedicated SMTP server
[04:49] <lifeless> stub: *per appserver*
[04:49] <stub> We talking to localhost now? Ok.
[04:59] <lifeless> yeah
[05:09] <stub> thumper: Just reading meeting notes. Thanks for reducing the mailman query counts! Its a big burden on the db.
[05:11] <spm> jtv: heh
[05:12] <spm> jtv: it's .... different. big country town with the amenities (to some degree) of a city.
[05:12] <jtv> You're saying it's a bureaucratic amusement park at the end of a fat fibre-optic cable?
[05:13] <spm> close
[05:13] <spm> "You're saying it's a bureaucratic amusement park at the end"
[05:21] <jtv> It just became a whole lot less impressive.
[05:22] <wgrant> It's Canberra. It is far less impressive than even your least impressive impression.
[05:27] <spm> some of the more ... rigid bureaucratic side has changed, but it's still very much a town that revolves around federal govt. and that has implications right thru the entire place. unf, usually in painful ways.
[05:28] <spm> flip side. I'm a 20min drive from the city centre; yet from our back deck can see paddocks with sheep/horses across the valley. We get Kangaroos < 50metres from our front door (I have pics!). That's pretty special.
[05:37] <mwhudson> haven't we fixed this: http://launchpadlibrarian.net/58406579/vcs-imports-wordpress-trunk.log at least twice already?
[05:38] <mwhudson> spm: ^^
[05:38] <spm> ugh
[05:38] <spm> actually - I wonder - I came across this doing some simple bzr ops last week - don't recall which server offhand.
[05:39] <spm> mwhudson: which importd what that?
[05:39] <spm> was* that
[05:39] <mwhudson> spm: i'm a twenty minute _walk_ from wellington cbd and not much further from rural bliss than you :-p
[05:39] <spm> :-)
[05:39] <mwhudson> spm: well, https://code.launchpad.net/~vcs-imports/wordpress/trunk
[05:40] <mwhudson> spm: ahh, seems there's more than one kind of failure :(
[05:40] <mwhudson> spm: seems it's galapagos that's doing the nowhoami thing
[05:41] <spm> ta
[05:48] <lifeless> spm: I'm 20m from another entire city ;)
[06:31] <thumper> stub: np, I might tackle the methods one by one, but I want the xmlrpc server less loaded
[07:43] <mwhudson> https://launchpad.net/~mwhudson/+karma -> "Michael Hudson-Doyle's karma has expired. "Total karma: 20838"
[07:43] <mwhudson> um?
[07:43] <henninge> Does anybody have an idea how we can get out of testfix again?
[07:44] <henninge> mwhudson: could that mean "Some of you karma has expired?"
[07:44] <mwhudson> mayhap
[07:45] <wgrant> It can also mean that the karma cache is being updated.
[07:45] <wgrant> Sometimes a couple of the karma totals will vanish for a few minutes while that happens.
[07:45] <wgrant> Or, in this case, all of them.
[07:46] <mwhudson> could be
[07:46] <wgrant> Everyone is similarly afflicted.
[07:46] <wgrant> Which is rather suspicious indeed.
[07:55] <jelmer> It looks like more windmill test failures.
[07:56]  * jelmer waves to mwhudson, wgrant
[07:56] <wgrant> Morning jelmer.
[09:12] <mrevell> Hello
[09:37] <henninge> Hi mrevell!
[09:38] <mrevell> hello henninge
[09:38] <henninge> mrevell: I just thought that you might not yet be aware of the fact that we moved the 10.11 release back by a week.
[09:39] <wgrant> The guy in #launchpad looks like he could do with some commercial subscription help.
[09:39] <henninge> mrevell: sorry for having kept you out of the loop here.
[09:40] <mrevell> henninge, Thanks for letting me know now. So we're going for the 17th?
[09:40] <henninge> wgrant: thanks, will talk to him.
[09:40] <mrevell> wgrant, thanks
[09:40] <mrevell> heh
[09:40] <henninge> mrevell: yes, I just emailed the list.
[09:40] <mrevell> Ah, I see your mail henninge
[09:40] <henninge> mrevell: you go and talk ;)
[09:41] <wgrant> What's this December "Bug Jam" thing? Does the following cycle not start until January?
[09:42] <mrevell> henninge, I saw a discussion where I think the release was going to 00.00 UTC. Is that still the case?
[09:43] <henninge> mrevell: no, I am proposing 10:00 UTC
[09:43] <mrevell> wgrant, The idea was that rather than having a mini-cycle in December, we'd spend a couple of weeks doing nothing other than close bugs (not necessarily fix...)
[09:43] <wgrant> Heh.
[09:43] <wgrant> OK.
[09:44] <henninge> mrevell: I had proposed 22 UTC for the 10th because I already knew that Tom would not be around.
[09:44] <mrevell> wgrant, So, we could just have one week of bug jam and a full-sized December cycle
[09:44] <mrevell> henninge, Ah, I see.
[09:44] <henninge> mrevell: but with more LOSAs not there, we scratched the 10th completely and since Tom is there on the 17th, we can do it at 10:00
[09:44] <mrevell> henninge, Are we pretty confident of the date and time? I mean, can I announce it?
[09:44] <henninge> mrevell: it's not finalized yet, no
[09:44] <henninge> oop, public channel ...
[09:45] <henninge> ;-)
[09:45] <henninge> but I don't expect any more problems.
[09:45] <mrevell> heh, that's not a problem :)
[10:51] <wgrant> jelmer: Hi.
[10:51] <mrevell> Hey, I'm running make on a new branch on a clean Maverick install ... I'm getting a permission error when I run make (clean, schema and run so far)
[10:51] <mrevell> Any ideas?
[10:51] <jelmer> wgrant: Hi
[10:52] <StevenK> mrevell: Can you pastebin the trace?
[10:52] <wgrant> jelmer: I've addressed your comment on https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~wgrant/launchpad/destroy-distroseries-lucilleconfig/+merge/38648. Anything else?
[10:53] <jelmer> wgrant: Yes, I need to land your branch. :-) I'll send it off to ec2 today.
[10:54] <mrevell> StevenK, Thanks, Here it is: http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/523776/ .... that's just the last few lines ... do you need the full thing?
[10:54] <wgrant> jelmer: Thanks!
[10:55] <wgrant> mrevell: I normally fix that with "sudo rm -r /var/tmp/bazaar.launchpad.dev".
[10:55] <wgrant> I think Apache creates it or something.
[10:56] <mrevell> Oh, simple as that eh? Thanks wgrant, I'll give that a go.
[10:57] <mrevell> whoop, that worked for make clean ... thanks wgrant and StevenK
[11:15] <deryck> Morning, all.
[14:57]  * lifeless yawns
[15:25] <lifeless> hi jml
[15:25] <jml> lifeless: hi
[15:27] <lifeless> flacoste: jml: since we're all awake, perhaps we should continue our long running voice discussion
[15:31] <jml> lifeless: on another call right now.
[15:37] <lifeless> kk
[15:56] <deryck> gmb or allenap, could one of you spare time for an easy review?
[15:56] <allenap> deryck: Sure.
[15:56] <deryck> allenap, thanks!  https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~deryck/launchpad/allow-reporter-fixed-released-unsetting-664096/+merge/39754
[16:03] <jml> lifeless: maybe we could have a call later today
[16:03] <lifeless> sure
[16:06] <jml> sinzui: hello
[16:07] <sinzui> hi jml
[16:08] <jml> sinzui: when do you think we're supposed to have our call
[16:08] <sinzui> next week -1 hour?
[16:09] <jml> sinzui: I'm happy with that. Britain changed timezones during my flight home today
[16:09] <sinzui> okay
[16:09] <jml> sinzui: so I'm not sure when anything is
[16:10] <sinzui> jml: you are my only meeting on Mondays. You can fit me in at your convenience
[16:10] <jml> sinzui: cool.
[16:10] <jml> sinzui: did you want to chat today?
[16:10] <sinzui> sure
[16:10] <sinzui> now?
[16:10] <jml> yeah.
[16:22] <lifeless> Ursula: hi
[16:22] <lifeless> https://devpad.canonical.com/~lpqateam/qa_reports/deployment-stable.html is empty?
[16:22] <lifeless> Ursula: bah, browser fail. ignore that question.
[16:24] <lifeless> Ursula: however
[16:24] <lifeless> Ursula: please do look - Revision 11801 is bad: possible blocker. is reported 4 or 5 times :)
[16:26] <jcsackett> gary_poster: hey, an LP user has asked me for any info on this issue in #launchpad https://answers.launchpad.net/moin-openid/+question/110123; you were looking at it at one point, any notions about it or who i might point the user to for more info?
[16:29] <lifeless>  Bug 664060 needs QA
[16:29] <_mup_> Bug #664060: bug supervisor should be able to configure bugtracker for projects <qa-needstesting> <Launchpad Bugs:Fix Committed by brian-murray> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/664060>
[16:42] <jml> lifeless: so, now that edge is almost gone, are you going to tackle the other subdomains next?
[16:43] <lifeless> jml: thats a more complex question, and would benefit from specific discussion about it.
[16:44] <lifeless> jml: the complexities for it are:
[16:44] <lifeless>  - are they part of the UI/ease of use story?
[16:44] <lifeless>  - impact on performance (more domains == more SSL handshakes, but also potentially more parallelism [though we don't do this :P so its a bit of a no-brainer today]
[16:45] <lifeless>  - impact on vostok
[16:45] <lifeless> jml: I have no immediate plans to do anything to/for/or about the bugs etc domains
[16:45] <lifeless> jml: but perhaps you meant some other set of subdomains
[16:56] <lifeless> https://bugs.launchpad.net/software-center-agent/+bug/627608 needs qa
[16:56] <_mup_> Bug #627608: Got a 401 on a fresh purchase <qa-needstesting> <Software Center Agent:Fix Released> <Soyuz:Fix Committed by michael.nelson> <software-center (Ubuntu):Fix Released> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/627608>
[16:58] <lifeless> jml: We did ~ 2200 commits to trunk in the last year.
[16:59] <lifeless> jml: our velocity in terms of commits-per-month for the last two months is about the same as for the last 12.
[16:59] <lifeless> jml: 20 hours per commit
[16:59] <lifeless> per dev
[17:01] <lifeless> (given a nominal 2000 hours/year work period)
[17:16] <jml> lifeless: interesting
[17:16] <jml> lifeless: because anecdotally I'd say committing to trunk is getting harder.
[17:16] <lifeless> jml: there sure is a lot of friction we need to fix.
[17:18] <jml> lifeless: fwiw, I meant the bugs etc subdomains.
[17:18] <jml> lifeless: but I do realize it's a big question.
[17:18] <lifeless> 11824-7230 = 4594 over the last two years
[17:19] <lifeless> jml: I think the team size has grown a bit over two years?
[17:25] <jml> lifeless: I'm not convinced it has. Anyway, it's easy enough to see how the number of distinct committers has changed
[17:25] <lifeless> jml: indeed, I'm doing very crude stats just now - log | less :)
[17:25] <jml> lifeless: well, easy-ish. bzr has a way to go before querying logs is as easy as SQL
[17:41] <jml> lifeless: reckon it's worthwhile to file bugs on the remaining parallel testing work?
[17:52]  * jml gone, back later
[18:03] <lifeless> jml: not really; there is a parallel test job; looking at that will show whats broke
[18:15] <lifeless> statik: shall we skip our call today? we caught up late last week ..
[18:16] <statik> lifeless: that sounds good to me
[18:27] <SpamapS> are there known bugs in reading archives of private mailing lists that a lp user is subscribed to?
[18:27] <SpamapS> I'm unable to pass the openid "Continue" button.
[18:29] <lifeless> ugh
[18:30] <lifeless> http://python.mirocommunity.org/video/1186/djangocon-2009-django-is-obsol is quite interesting
[18:31] <SpamapS> Is this a follow up to iamcal's "Why I Hate Django" ? ;)
[18:31] <lifeless> no
[18:31] <lifeless> its about evolution
[18:32] <SpamapS> in a way, so was cal's talk
[18:32] <lifeless> well, it might be then :P
[18:32] <SpamapS> but, I'll refrain from commenting further until I've watched the presentation
[18:37] <mars> lifeless, would be nice if there was a transcript there - it would be nice to just skim the facts of the argument
[18:38] <SpamapS> hah.. onions spoil all kinds of apps
[18:38] <SpamapS> Some might say "minimize window" is an onion.
[18:45] <lifeless> SpamapS: you'll like the 'templates will finally die' line
[18:47] <SpamapS> I stopped at about 15 minutes.. I get his point.. rethink.. multi-threaded.. etc. ;)
[18:47] <lifeless> SpamapS: he switches themes
[18:47] <SpamapS> lifeless: even livejournal figured out that you can do the various bits of the template asynchronously server-side using gearman.
[18:48] <SpamapS> lifeless: oh very well.. starting back up.. ;)
[18:48] <lifeless> lol
[18:48] <lifeless> SpamapS: only if you're interested
[18:48] <SpamapS> I'm very interested
[18:48] <SpamapS> One thing I am starting to think about.. is why hadoop is the only one anybody mentions
[18:49] <SpamapS> map/reduce isn't that hard!
[18:49] <lifeless> he mentioned cassandra dinomite etc
[18:49] <SpamapS> Yeah I mean the map/reduce frameworks.
[18:55] <SpamapS> lifeless: so the last time I heard this argument, it was for xslt
[18:56] <SpamapS> CSS is obviously a much simpler way to do presentation than xslt..
[18:56] <lifeless> yeah
[19:13] <lifeless> flacoste: ping
[19:41] <lifeless> awol for a bit
[20:05] <cr3> leonardr: hi there, is there a way to define a method in lazr that returns void? I have a write_operation method which seems to cause a subsequent GET on the server because launchpadlib seems to do self.resource.lp_refresh() if the return code is 200 and the method is post
[20:06] <cr3> leonardr: I tried to redefine the method in question as a factory operation but then it expects the method to return the object created rather than void, which results in a ComponentLookupError for None
[20:06] <leonardr> cr3: https://bugs.launchpad.net/launchpadlib/+bug/249950
[20:06] <_mup_> Bug #249950: Stop refreshing after every POST named operation <launchpadlib :Triaged> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/249950>
[20:07] <leonardr> no :|
[20:07] <cr3> leonardr: thanks for the reference, good to know
[20:08] <leonardr> cr3, hopefully it's just an annoyance?
[20:09] <cr3> leonardr: a performance annoyance where each call results in two calls
[20:10] <cr3> leonardr: a crappy workaround might be to convert the method from a write_operation to a read_operation, but I'm not sure how much data I could encode in the url
[20:11] <leonardr> cr3: if it helps, i'm about to start on a big web service project and i could fix this problem as a side effect
[20:13] <cr3> leonardr: in the meanwhile, how acceptable would it be for me to define my own decorator called export_void_operation which would derive export_write_operation and setStatus(201) in the overridden call method?
[20:14] <leonardr> cr3: that's not good. you don't want to send 201 at all--you'd be lying
[20:14] <leonardr> how bad a performance problem is this?
[20:14] <leonardr> if it's absolutely awful i can spend some time pretty soon figuring out the best way to fix it
[20:15]  * mars \o/ devel is Green once again!
[20:16] <cr3> leonardr: it's not that awful, it's just that I know myself well enough that I'll probably forget to fix this later. I can take a note and wait, no worries
[20:17] <leonardr> cr3: what we want is something like export_void_operation + sending a Cache-Control header or something that says 'you just made the object dirty, you need to refresh'
[20:31] <cr3> leonardr: if I want to return an object which contains a reference to another object in the same call, can that be done?
[20:31] <leonardr> cr3: you mean send both objects at one?
[20:31] <leonardr> that's not possible
[20:32] <leonardr> unless you can return a list of objects--that might work, but i  doubt it
[20:32] <cr3> leonardr: yeah, both at once to spare the subsequent get on the referenced object
[20:33] <leonardr> cr3: there's a general feature planned that will let a client tell the server it wants certain objects expanded, but it's not planned for a long time--i need to rationalize the web service design first
[20:34] <cr3> leonardr: maybe it's a lesson for me to create even coarser grained objects
[20:35] <leonardr> cr3: could be, if this is a really bad problem. would it help if this data was cached on the client side, or is even getting it once a big performance problem?
[20:36] <lifeless> leonardr: whats the big web service project?
[20:39] <leonardr> lifeless: refactoring the named operations into a few 'families' (search/filter operations and so on) so that each resource type in the web service doesn't have 5-20 miscellaneous and unstandardized operations dangling from it
[20:39] <leonardr> make it easier to learn and use
[20:39] <leonardr> i'm working with jml on it, but the desktop thing has intruded for several months
[20:43] <jcsackett> lifeless: per the db-patch rules, i believe i need a review from you on this: https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~jcsackett/launchpad/migrate-official-bool-data-627631/+merge/39583
[20:44] <lifeless> jcsackett: you need one from stub to assign the patch id, to land it
[20:44] <jcsackett> lifeless: i know, but the docs say i need one from the architect as well. that would be you. :-)
[20:44] <lifeless> yes
[20:44] <lifeless> but not to land
[20:45] <lifeless> the docs also say that :)
[20:45] <jcsackett> dig. i was just pointing out the mp to you. my understanding is that stub is out, so i'll have to chase him down later.
[20:45] <jcsackett> there's already a request for him on the MP as well.
[20:46] <lifeless> there is a 'request a review' buttton on the mp - my preference is for you to use that for me too :). Thanks for letting me know.
[20:46] <jcsackett> lifeless: i used that for you too, but it was while you were at uds, so this was sort of pushing it back into awareness. :-)
[21:06] <wallyworld_> rockstar: abentley: thumper: standup?
[21:16] <EdwinGrubbs> matsubara-afk, Ursula: ping
[21:53] <wgrant> jelmer: Did you get around to EC2ing that branch?
[22:11] <lifeless> sinzui: hey
[22:31] <thumper> lifeless: so what is the process then for landing something without a review?
[22:32] <thumper> lifeless: I have my very boring enum change for blueprints
[22:33] <lifeless> https://dev.launchpad.net/PolicyAndProcess/OptionalReviews
[22:33] <lifeless> Activities
[22:33] <lifeless> Submit the branch to create an MP (our toolchains can look at this and it provides a location for a post landing review if the branch has that done to it). Self review with review type 'unreviewed'. Land via the normal landing process.
[22:34] <lifeless> we may find this needs tuning
[22:34] <lifeless> e.g. review type none/code
[22:36] <lifeless> jml: have you crashed?
[22:41] <wallyworld_> thumper: one of my branches got merged into db-devel rather than devel. i need to do stuff that depends on it. do i have any option other than to work on a db-devel branch?
[22:41] <lifeless> wallyworld_: land it again.
[22:41] <lifeless> wallyworld_: to the right place.
[22:41] <thumper> wallyworld_: did you branch from db-devel?
[22:41] <wallyworld_> ok
[22:41] <lifeless> wallyworld_: just be sure that you don't suck all of db-devel in.
[22:42] <wallyworld_> no i branched originally from devel
[22:42] <thumper> wallyworld_: or more importantly, did you branch or merge from db-devel since the last rollout?
[22:42] <thumper> wallyworld_: in which case, land it on devel as well
[22:42] <lifeless> thumper: 'release' - not rollout ;)
[22:42] <thumper> wallyworld_: bzr's merge detection will handle it
[22:42] <wallyworld_> with that branch i have only merged into it from devel
[22:43] <wallyworld_> not sure why it landed in db-devel
[22:43] <lifeless> the default is bong.
[22:43] <lifeless> mailing
[22:43] <thumper> lifeless: the default is due to branch stacking
[22:43] <thumper> lifeless: and that is all
[22:44] <wallyworld_> thumper: i think we are still in textfix mode so i'll have to wait to land it again
[22:44] <lifeless> thumper: its the series, we can change it right ?
[22:45] <thumper> lifeless: if we had an easy way to say push and stack on db-devel when needed (that is tested and simple to use) then we could switch relatively easily
[22:45] <lifeless> thumper: I realise we need to do a repo fetch
[22:45] <lifeless> thumper: we can switch trivially
[22:45] <thumper> lifeless: devel isn't stacked
[22:45] <lifeless> thumper: right, but branches stacked on db-devel may need db-devel only revisions.
[22:45] <thumper> lifeless: right
[22:45] <lifeless> so its devel.fetch(db_devel), then change the default series.
[22:46] <lifeless> 4 lines of python + a losa
[22:46] <thumper> we don't need any code changes
[22:46] <lifeless> right
[22:46] <lifeless> just the fetch
[22:49] <thumper> no
[22:49] <thumper> not even the fetch
[22:49] <thumper> branches are stacked on aboslute paths
[22:49] <thumper> not shortcuts
[22:49] <thumper> it is more the overhead of new db-devel branches
[22:49] <thumper> but if we don't care...
[22:49]  * thumper shrugs
[22:49] <lifeless> thumper: devel branches are the common case
[22:50] <lifeless> thumper: they pay massively today ;)
[22:50] <lifeless> thumper: please do it
[22:50] <lifeless> thumper: and let launchpad-dev know
[22:50]  * thumper nods
[22:50] <lifeless> (unless you think its wrong to change it)
[22:53] <wgrant> Nothing depends on the lp:launchpad alias?
[23:11] <lifeless> flacoste: ppr needs 'max', I think :)
[23:18] <lifeless> losa ping
[23:18] <spm> yo
[23:18] <lifeless> https://pastebin.canonical.com/39248/
[23:18] <lifeless> can you add that into
[23:18] <lifeless> https://edge.launchpad.net/+feature-rules
[23:20] <spm> sure. what does it all do? timeouts against specific pages?
[23:20] <lifeless> yes
[23:20] <lifeless> as per https://dev.launchpad.net/LEP/FeatureFlags
[23:20] <spm> just never seen that style before
[23:20] <lifeless> if you look at the lpnet timeout report
[23:20] <lifeless> these are the current hard timeouts
[23:20] <wgrant> lifeless: Exempting all the main timeouts and slashing the limit again?
[23:21] <lifeless> I looked at the PPR to get a feel for how things are going
[23:21] <lifeless> wgrant: raising slightly for stuff hurt by 8.4
[23:21] <spm> haha
[23:21] <wgrant> Bah.
[23:21] <spm> lifeless: OOPS-1766ED2295
[23:21] <lifeless> wgrant: will lower the timeout again once we've caught up with that
[23:21] <lifeless> spm: rotlf
[23:22] <lifeless> spm: that was near-instant, right ?
[23:22] <spm> yah, purty much
[23:22] <lifeless> spm: what was the traceback ?
[23:22] <spm> Retry: duplicate key value violates unique constraint "feature_flag_unique_priority_per_flag"<br /> <br />
[23:22] <lifeless> ah
[23:22] <lifeless> I had 4 duplicated
[23:22] <spm> yes. given the timeouts...
[23:22] <lifeless> change the second ' 4 ' to ' 5 ' and so own down the page.
[23:22] <lifeless> s/own/on/
[23:24] <spm> hrm/ I think that's applied. it doesnt' exactly let you know that it has done anything.
[23:24] <lifeless> please do file bugs on this interface
[23:24] <spm> yeah, has.
[23:24] <lifeless> its your primary knob for controlling LP in real time.
[23:24] <wgrant> Hm,.
[23:24] <wgrant> Do we really need such a massive freeze now that most stuff should be QA'd immediately?
[23:24] <lifeless> its bare bones now, but it doesn't have to stay this way.
[23:24] <wgrant> A week to QA db-devel changes seems excessive.
[23:24] <lifeless> wgrant: the thing I proposed has a much smaller critical section
[23:25] <lifeless> wgrant: we're still a week behind in QA right now.
[23:25] <lifeless> wgrant: until we've caught up, we haven't caught up.
[23:25] <wgrant> True.
[23:26] <lifeless> spm: thanks, in 60 minutes we should see a drop to near-zero hard timeouts on lpstats
[23:27] <wgrant> lifeless: Don't worry, Soyuz will fix that :)
[23:34] <wgrant> sinzui: Why does DistributionMirror live in Registry?
[23:37] <lifeless> aren't you meant to be stufying ?
[23:37] <wgrant> Silence.