[00:07] apachelogger: My understanding is the Thunderbird/Kolab thing is done by one guy in his free time. Not suprising. [00:16] yo shadeslayer === tazz_ is now known as tazz === solid_liquid is now known as solid_liq === muesli_ is now known as muesli [05:15] how to make plymouth (text),, (or just edit the name of "kubuntu 10.10")??? [05:18] how to make plymouth (text),, (or just edit the name of "kubuntu 10.10")??? === evilnhandler is now known as nhandler [07:47] so we no longer have the package kde-devel [07:47] we used to..... [08:22] hi [08:23] hi [08:24] I have some updates for kde/natty packages - how should I share them? [08:25] they fix FTFBS on armel [08:27] hm. I see that ScottK uploaded some of them. uf [08:32] hrw: ScottK is your man for arm - although if Riddell and apachelogger can probably help also [08:32] jussi: thx [08:32] I got Efika MX Smartbook at UDS-N and want to have kde on it. [08:32] but I also needs natty on my machines due to development [08:33] hrw: I understand completely - Im hoping to get one of those myself... [08:33] so my (also new) pandaboard is now going though builds of kde packages [08:34] * jussi eye's hrw's efika jealously... [08:35] jussi: trust me - it is not user ready yet [08:36] hrw: not really the point for me ;) [08:36] ;d [08:47] hrw: is there flash working on that device yet? [08:48] * jussi had the nettop version, but no hdmi cable, so hasnt had a chance to check it yet [08:48] has [08:54] jussi: I do not care about flash on !x86 [08:54] jussi: on maemo tablets (770/n810/n900) it was slow [09:09] !kde-devel [09:09] Sorry, I don't know anything about kde-devel [09:09] hmmm [09:20] hrw: what does the fix look like? [09:21] if it involves thumb then I suppose it has to wait until the master of gcc returns, because from a spec from lucid times it seems we should default to thumb but for some reason that got changed... === apachelogger changed the topic of #kubuntu-devel to: Kubuntu - Friendly Computing | Help with Team Report <3 https://wiki.kubuntu.org/Kubuntu/TeamReports | Lots to do https://wiki.kubuntu.org/Kubuntu/Todo | SRUs http://goo.gl/iDJ6 | Merges! https://wiki.kubuntu.org/Kubuntu/Ninjas/NattyMerges [09:23] * apachelogger needs to write a Kubuntu is Ubuntu blog post [09:23] * persia adds a weighting of several gazillion to that task. [09:24] apachelogger: mostly adding -mimplicit-it=thumb from Qt to kde packages to get them built [09:24] hrw: yeah, see also a recent mail to kubuntu-devel [09:24] apachelogger: will look [09:24] we can easily add it globally for all of KDE [09:24] Didn't doko want to not do that? [09:25] however I think it ought to be changed in gcc, or rather find out why it did get changed from defaulting to thumb [09:25] persia: he wanted to get poked is what I have heared [09:25] Did he get poked yet? [09:25] apachelogger: which one? [09:25] he is not available this week [09:26] hrw: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/kubuntu-devel/2010-October/004858.html [09:26] thx [09:27] Aha! So we're basically stuck until post-plumbers. makes sense. [09:27] apachelogger: kdepimlibs fails same way [09:27] kdebindings also [09:27] I know we went to a fair bit of trouble to port everything *to* thumb, because it was smaller, so better cache fit, so I'm a big fan of waiting on doko for this. [09:28] kdebase-workspace is what I will check after kdebindings got built [09:28] hrw: from what I gather most of kde fails due to it [09:29] apachelogger: I also would like to see toolchain people opinion. [09:29] that would be doko, who is pluming this week [09:29] or people from Linaro toolchain WG can look too [09:30] hrw, Can you work on maverick this week, against natty chroots? [09:30] as this is kind of gcc-4.5 regression compared to gcc-4.4 [09:30] hrw, If you want to involve them, we might identify the problem more closely, but I'd still want to involve doko in a final solution. [09:30] persia: what you want to be checked? I can create maverick chroot or maverick system [09:31] I don't need anything checked. I just know maverick/kde works, so wondered if you could create natty chroots on a maverick system and work in the chroots. [09:31] Quintasan: ping [09:32] persia: on panda I do not use X11 at all so it is safe to be natty for me [09:32] Ah, OK. [09:32] persia: need to send my primary lcd for repair - backlight died [09:33] persia: so in meantime I hack kde to build as smartbook is natty now and it is device hard to reinstall [09:33] too many packages hacked by genesi [09:36] * hrw -> bisecting binutils [09:38] Riddell: ping [09:39] shadeslayer: ping [09:39] valorie: ping [09:40] o/ [09:40] valorie: did you send me your user profile yet? [09:40] no [09:41] I shall try my netbook again right now [09:41] I fear 'tis dead still, though [09:42] sue someone!!! [09:42] oh dear [09:42] for some reason my fluffy blog post had 289 views the past week :O [09:42] fregl: we srsly need to get new steam behind the project [09:46] well, I'll have to send it back [09:46] it began to start up, and immediately shut down [09:46] I guess I'll have to re-write [09:46] :( [09:46] it was pretty good, too [09:46] stupid netbook [09:46] I was going to work on the monthly report [09:47] but there is nothing there about the meeting, going to UDS, talks given, etc.? [09:47] shall I add sections? [09:47] please [09:47] ok [09:47] though [09:47] question is if we should have a section with all stuff that we talked about [09:47] or just general a line saying UDS happened with loads of discussion and fun.. [09:51] uds was nice event but too many sessions to attend so I skipped kde ones ;( [09:52] you really need to fix your priorities :P [09:52] apachelogger, You will want to detail all the sessions for the Proceedings anyway, which means that publicity posts can just point at that. [09:52] * apachelogger demands more focused topics really [09:53] apachelogger: uds-n was work for me, not pleasure [09:53] persia: good point [09:53] * jussi demands more apachelogger clones [09:53] valorie: I think a one liner linking to the proceedings should suffice [09:54] hrw: work and pleasure are not mutually exclusive... in some businesses anyway... oh I better stop here... [09:54] Riddell: I'd really need some pix of our paddling trip, that currently sort of holds back uds blog posts :/ [09:55] no list of attendees? [09:56] apachelogger: ;d [09:56] perhaps link to our TODO ? or the Proceedings ? [09:56] oops, you said that [09:56] ok [09:56] valorie: well, you could list the attendes if you wish to [09:56] probably better from a community magic POV [09:57] hrw, did we meet? [09:58] valorie: nope, I would remember [10:00] oh dang [10:00] * apachelogger forgot to write about hottubs [10:00] dang [10:00] Riddell: also I would need hot tub pictures for that matter... ;) [10:01] 66% of kdebindings... [10:01] I like that percentage infos of cmake [10:02] cmake++ [10:02] http://photos.pixoulphotography.com/Events/UDS-Natty/14450330_Xqidv [10:03] lots of pictures [10:03] scary ones too [10:05] apachelogger: and salmiakki [10:06] oh, right, omg [10:06] and nasty irc councillors forcing you onto the scary waterslide :P [10:06] oooh, salmiakki [10:07] * jussi wonders how drunk that guy from the kernel team got... [10:11] :D [10:12] oh my [10:12] ati is rather silly [10:16] why? [10:16] on their driver page they talk about version 10.9 while current is 10.10 [10:17] also the documentation for 10.10 is there, just not referenced.. [10:24] gads, where is that photo of all of us at UDS, *not* on FB? [10:24] somewhere I can link to it? [10:26] http://photos.pixoulphotography.com/Events/UDS-Natty/14450330_Xqidv#1072081201_cBWXK is a feed by the person who took the photo. Dunno if it's included. [10:27] nope [10:27] shadeslayer took it, I think [10:27] but it's only in FB that I can find now [10:29] Oh, different value of "all". [10:29] Riddell, ScottK, Apachelogger, Shadeslayer, Rbelem, Maco, Persia, Jussi, Valorie [10:29] is who I have as attendees [10:29] * persia was thinking of http://photos.pixoulphotography.com/Events/UDS-Natty/14450330_Xqidv#1072410213_b8Tpw [10:29] oh, darkwingduck! [10:30] that is a great one [10:30] but I'm filling in the monthly report, and thought the photo might be nice in there [10:30] Does anyone have a picture of me in my death suit? [10:30] you missed out being in that one! [10:30] I think you meant http://www.flickr.com/photos/45059736@N02/5140100462/in/set-72157625297087490/ [10:31] sadly, I missed taking on, jussi [10:31] woooooo! [10:31] yup, that's the one I wanted [10:31] thanks, persia [10:31] valorie: agateau? mgraesslin? darkwingduck? cute? [10:31] dangit, i didn't try his name all mushed together [10:32] cute? [10:32] Qt [10:32] :D [10:32] haha [10:32] valorie, So, that URL is yet another reason to install a core somewhere :p [10:34] valorie: thiago, densi, zeno IIRC [10:36] hmm, cute, densi and zeno I don't recall [10:36] or only got "real" names [10:36] as if our irc nicks aren't real [10:36] lol [10:37] * apachelogger is not following [10:37] Riddell, ScottK, Apachelogger, Shadeslayer, Rbelem, Maco, agateau, mgraesslin, darkwingduck, cute, Persia, Jussi, Valorie, thiago, densi, zeno [10:37] complete list of the team at UDS? [10:37] will you stop pinging me!! [10:37] sorry [10:37] valorie: cute = thiago, denis, zeno [10:37] oh [10:37] ok [10:37] that came out wrong [10:37] Qt = thiago, denis, zeno [10:37] lol [10:37] apachelogger: slip of the tongue :D [10:38] keys are right next to each other [10:38] fixed [10:39] * apachelogger looks for his doom3 box [10:48] hrw: Do you have a ~current kernel running on your smartbook? [10:49] persia: Doens't CXXFLAGS += -Wa,-mimplicit-it=thumb leave it in Thumb mode (so we're still getting the advantages of it)? [10:50] That's what we've been doing, not falling back to -marm. [10:50] Yeah, but mixing thumb and non-thumb is awkward and lead to N fails-to-run bugs during lucid. We really don't want to recompile everything in the archive again, if we can avoid it. [10:50] apachelogger: I confirmed that CXXFLAGS += -Wa,-mimplicit-it=thumb works on dh 7 packages too, so that can be a general solution for us. [10:50] ScottK: no, 2.6.31.14.2 [10:50] ScottK: and 2.6.35 on pandaboard [10:51] So best practice is to make sure we have sensible toolchain defaults, *NOT* to hack around things manually (or even in a semi-automated way) [10:51] hrw: There will be an mx51 kernel for Natty, so when we have that, it will be interesting. [10:52] ScottK: mx51 for babbage is even more or less usable. mx51 for smartbook needs probably more work [10:52] persia: What's the downside if we fix our packages to produce what a sane tool chain would have produced until the toolchain maintainer re-appears/gets around to it? [10:53] fail-to-run if you link against anything in core that didn't do that. [10:53] Oh, and probably fail-to-run anyway, because the kernel folk aren't likely to do that. [10:53] persia: But anything that doesn't do that won't build, so how does that happen? [10:53] Which leads to fail-to-load-userspace-after-booting, which is annoying. [10:53] OK. [10:54] I'm not in favor of that. [10:54] It won't build because ARM code can't link against thumb code. [10:54] But some stuff (like the kernel) doesn't use symbolic libraries, so there's potential for creep. [10:55] In the case that the toolchain folk decide that Thumb wasn't really worth it (there's arguments that it might be a bit slower in execution, although it's smaller code size, giving less cache loads, and benchmarking is fairly undecided from what I've seen), it would be nicer to just give-back the failed stuff after sorting the base libraries than needing to repatch everything the other way. [10:56] Sigh. [10:56] !find libgtk-1.2.so.0 [10:56] Package/file libgtk-1.2.so.0 does not exist in maverick [10:56] omg [10:56] Dear lord no. [10:56] \o/ [10:56] We killed that dead several releases ago. [10:56] For many good reasons. [10:57] It took a lot of nails to get the coffin to stay shut. [10:57] poor thing [10:57] good ol doom3 installer for linux wants it [10:57] gads, for some reason the photo won't display [10:57] * apachelogger wonders why it is not part of the installer itself though [10:57] clearly that installer is a bit of the silly kind [10:57] but since it's 4am, I hope someone else can figure out why [10:57] niters all [10:58] since when doom3 has been "good old" ? [10:58] hrw: We could definitely use someone working on KDE integration on the smartbook. I've got smarttop systems to work on getting stuff to build. [10:58] Tm_T: what is it 2004, 2005 maybe? [10:58] that is srsly old [10:59] is not [10:59] * Tm_T still lays Wolfenstein 3d [10:59] plays even [11:00] :O [11:01] ScottK: thats why I am rebuilding all kde packages one by one on pandaboard now [11:01] ScottK: goal is: build them, install on smartbook, get desktop [11:02] there's other games than starcraft? [11:02] Sput: There's trolling Windows users on quassel. [11:02] There was supposed to be a "#" [11:03] ScottK: true, true [11:03] though I'm not sure if that's a game! [11:04] It is fun though. [11:06] ScottK: not sure if "hitting people already lying on the ground below dead horses" should be fun :) [11:07] It's kinda like polo [11:15] Sput: I didn't say it should be. I said it is. [11:19] hrw: We will need to look into how much of KDE we really want running on arm in order to help with performance. 512MB is a tight squeeze for KDE. [11:21] The 512MB is the big argument for -mthumb [11:24] On i386 I can run a full plasma-netbook session in 1GB ram and do some stuff without hitting swap. It would be very nice to get the same kind of experience with a reduced set of things on arm. [11:28] ScottK: I will run plasma-desktop rather then plasma-netbook [11:28] hrw: It's heavier on RAM and CPU, so I think more difficult to get a good user experience. [11:28] ScottK: on my 1366x768 x86 laptop I cant adapt to netbook [11:29] I have an actual i386 netbook that it works well on. i use -desktop on my actual laptop. [11:29] ScottK: will check once will get all working [11:29] In any case, if you adapt things for -desktop, generally -netbook should just work since it's a less stressing case. [11:30] Great. [11:33] ouch [11:33] apachelogger: yep, time to get going on fluffy again [11:35] Riddell: http://fmontesi.blogspot.com/2010/11/plasma-crashing-upon-login-after.html looks like something to get an SRU in for before this weekend so US users don't have the same problem. [11:36] apachelogger: Maybe you could have your minion investigate ^^^ (I know you're occupied with important fluffy matters). === hunger_ is now known as hunger [11:59] ScottK: agreed [11:59] apachelogger: photos coming shortly [11:59] I just had an e-mail from someone asking for lucid packages of 4.5 if they pay for them, any takers? [12:07] Such dedication to free software. If not for yourselves, take the opportunity as a political statement to encourage funding free software developers. [12:11] apachelogger, shadeslayer: ^^ what's your consulting rate? [12:12] Riddell: 4.5.3? [12:16] ulysses: yes [12:18] that would be nice [12:19] Riddell: 4.5 - shadeslayer can do it for 30 EUR/h, having it reviewed by me adds another 200 EUR/h [12:21] * persia encourages piece-pricing rather than hourly pricing [12:21] good to know what rates people have ;D === hrw is now known as hrw|afk [12:22] shadeslayer: please prepare a SRU kde rev 1187999 [12:22] http://websvn.kde.org/trunk/?rev=1187999&view=rev | svn://anonsvn.kde.org/home/kde/trunk -r 1187999 [12:23] Riddell: maybe flattr it or something [12:23] * apachelogger aint got no idea how flattr works, but surely it is related to the question at hand [12:24] http://retout.co.uk/blog/2010/11/03/flattr-y_will_get_you_nowhere is an interesting viewpoint on flattr === rdieter_work is now known as rdieter [12:52] Riddell: sure [12:52] well [12:52] apachelogger: my packages do not need alot of review :P [12:52] Riddell: if they pay me half the monies upfront ill do it :> [12:53] * shadeslayer needs a new phone [12:54] apachelogger: http://www.flickr.com/photos/jriddell/ === jefferai-away is now known as jefferai [13:03] yay [13:03] Riddell++ [13:04] shadeslayer: your rate says different :P [13:04] oh dang [13:04] I also forgot to write about our stop @KFC [13:05] hot tubbing! [13:06] shadeslayer: It's not hot tubbing when you only stick your feet in. [13:06] :P [13:17] lolz === hrw|afk is now known as hrw [13:40] ScottK: will these work on our boxen? http://www.powerdeveloper.org/platforms/efikamx/linux [13:40] * ScottK looks at persia. [13:41] jussi: I'm waiting until we have a working kernel in the archive, but that's just me. [13:42] ScottK: when Ive a choice of Jaunty or those, I know what Im choosing... :D [13:42] jussi: There's a karmic kernel that works. [13:43] ScottK: but what about those maverick images there? [13:43] and how do .lzma files work? [13:43] jussi: No idea. I avoid software from outside the official archive when I can. [13:46] <\sh> apachelogger: how do someone add a stream url to internet -> cool streams view inside amarok? ;) [13:46] <\sh> s/do/does/ [14:03] \sh: to cool streams you need to file a bug I think [14:04] or you add your own section [14:06] Riddell: http://kde.org/info/4.5.3.php#binary is all sorts of broken [14:06] we do not have any packages :( [14:07] That's because it's not released yet. [14:07] (AFAIK) [14:11] it is [14:15] Oh. [14:17] but we have other releases to catch up on too, kdevelop and was there a koffice release? [14:22] Nightrose: at work? [14:22] koffice 2.3 beta 3 released on 28th October [14:23] ohhhh, silly firefox .... [14:24] ah, there we go [14:24] and KDevelop 4.1 final released on 25th October [14:26] * apachelogger is totallz windowslogger right now [14:26] with german kbd layout too [14:31] ulysses: i did some of the kdevelop stuff, but then the UDS party got underway [14:31] and i was busy for 7days [14:31] and i looked at the koffice package... i really really really do not want to do that package [14:32] * shadeslayer is scared shitless of koffice packages now [14:32] I can't package, I'm only a translator with Lucid:( [14:33] Oh, KOffice 2.2.83 contains Hungarian translation files \o/\o/\o/ [14:33] ulysses: You can learn. [14:33] ScottK: your minion awaits you [14:33] * ScottK is too busy for minions. [14:33] * ScottK needs more core-devs with minions. [14:33] ScottK: and I want to learn [14:33] or kubuntu-devs. [14:34] ulysses: shadeslayer will teach you in order to improve his own understaanding. [14:34] ulysses: you want to learn packaging? [14:34] Riddell: yes [14:34] apachelogger: another minion for you then? :P [14:34] ulysses: groovy, fancy starting with a kdiff3 rebuild? [14:34] I do love my minions [14:35] Riddell: I'll do what is needed [14:36] ulysses: do you know where to start? [14:37] * shadeslayer points to pbuilder and udd [14:37] Riddell: set up a pbuilder and install kubuntu-dev-tools? [14:37] ulysses: personally I wouldn't use either [14:38] it's a no change upload [14:38] so you just need to download the existing sources, add a changelog, rebuild as source, make the debdiff [14:38] Riddell: okay, I'll do it [14:39] oh btw they fixed urlbar in rekonq trunk... but now it doesnt show any suggestions ^_^ [14:39] shadeslayer: works for me, compiled last friday I think [14:40] Riddell: the kde:foo thingy? [14:41] shadeslayer: seems to work [14:41] do you get suggestions from urlbar? [14:42] yes, not relevant to api.kde.org though [14:42] brrr [14:42] https://merges.ubuntu.com/main.html has pleasingly few kde packages on it, good work people! [14:43] apachelogger: yes [14:43] Nightrose: nvm then [14:45] Riddell: doesnt work for me :( [14:45] your on 170aadd79adcef19e36dc10d5b4f0112997a7a7e ? [14:47] BTW, no more powerpc specific FTBFS on natty for KDE now. [14:47] shadeslayer: acdc42e067c5bea90cb1017db919c267fd0bf0d7 [14:47] ah see, it doesnt work if you pull in the last few commits [14:49] http://apachelog.wordpress.com/2010/11/03/friendly-kubuntu-team-uds-edition/ [14:55] https://merges.ubuntu.com/universe.html also pleasinly small numbers of kde/qt packages [14:55] I wonder if that's all lex's doing [15:01] speaking of merges... [15:01] apachelogger: you went hot tubbing after i left as well? :P [15:01] can someone push kdiff3 for rebuild? [15:01] hrw: ulysses is working on it [15:02] Riddell: PK has debconf support now, what is the policy to this, package get patched, goes to backports or just in next release? [15:02] or he is supposed to be working on it [15:02] cool [15:02] I rebuilt it locally [15:03] dantti_work: I'm not sure I follow [15:03] dantti_work: there is upstream support for debconf and you want that to get into the archives? [15:03] Riddell: PK-glib (which makes gnome-pk enabled) [15:04] also gnome-pk needs a new package since the current does not work, but I'm not sure we need to worry or if there is someone worried by that already [15:04] dantti_work: we can add patches in natty and get that into maverick-backports [15:05] packagekit is also almost in debian http://ftp-master.debian.org/new.html [15:05] might be good to keep in sync with the debian packaging [15:05] Riddell: for natty we could just add the new version no? [15:05] dantti_work: yes if it's a new version that can go into natty [15:06] dantti_work: new versions can also go into maverick-backports (backports allows possible regressions) [15:06] dantti_work: if it's a major bug it can be patched and put into maverick-updates, but I don't think this is a bug (it's a missing feature) [15:06] Riddell: nice, so I guess pk 0.6.10 is fine then [15:07] sure [15:07] about gnomies is there anything to worry? [15:09] * ScottK isn't worrying. [15:09] :) [15:13] Riddell: I sent the debdiff in mail [15:15] ulysses: nice start, two things need fixing [15:15] ulysses: lucid should be natty [15:15] and the changelog entry need to be more verbose [15:15] "No change rebuild for libkonq5a transition" for example [15:17] revu needed http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/p/kdevelop-pg-qt [15:21] Riddell: http://pastebin.com/a0NvzAJ4 [15:23] lovely [15:24] ulysses: ah wait [15:24] ulysses: you're starting with the wrong version [15:24] ulysses: you need to get the latest sources from natty not from lucid [15:24] https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/kdiff3 [15:25] for the natty one copy the URL of the .dsc file and dget it [15:26] dpkg-source -x foo.dsc to extract [15:27] Riddell: Should I change debian/control? [15:28] ulysses: what would you change about it? [15:28] ah. kobby was a thing which I needed to rebuild during UDS - otherwise it crashed badly [15:29] Riddell: from libkonq5-dev to libkonq5a-dev, or not? [15:29] ulysses: no that hasn't changed [15:32] hrw: Even with rebuild it still crashed due to an IPv4/IPv6 interoperability problem. [15:32] Riddell: http://pastebin.com/QxuV7YdS [15:33] ScottK: worked fine enough for me [15:33] I think the got rid of the IPv6 avahi session after the first day or something. [15:40] ulysses: one more change I'm afraid [15:40] ulysses: for a no change rebuild to debian package we use -Xbuild1 instead of -Xubuntu1 [15:40] could you change that? [15:40] of course [15:44] Riddell: http://pastebin.com/pzHcVT6R [15:47] real 223m24.283s [15:47] user 194m31.031s [15:47] sys 8m40.914s [15:47] nice time for kdebindings [15:47] ulysses: groovy [15:47] ulysses: uploading! [15:48] ulysses: uploaded! [15:48] * Riddell puts a ninja mask onto ulysses [15:48] hrw: what are you doing with kdebindings? [15:49] Riddell: rebuilding for armel [15:49] Riddell: local needs [15:49] ooh that'll take years [15:50] hrw: for natty or something else? [15:50] Riddell: He's making KDE work on his Efika smartbook while we wait for the implicit IT thing to get sorted in the toolchain. [15:50] Riddell: natty [15:50] like ScottK said [15:50] thx skfin [15:50] thx ScottK [15:58] ulysses: if you want to do more packaging there's a few merges needing done, e.g. ktechlab https://merges.ubuntu.com/universe.html [15:58] kdesvn [15:58] let me know if you want to do them and I can take you through the process [15:59] I want! [15:59] ulysses: try kdesvn first maybe [16:00] grab the natty sources and work out why we haven't just used the debian package (i.e. what did we change) [16:00] then grab the debian package and work out if that change is still needed [16:00] if it is, change the debian package, merge the changelogs, do a debdiff [16:00]