[00:17] <j1mc> hi all - anyone around?
[00:17] <dutchie> depends what you mean by "around"
[00:17] <j1mc> hey dutchie
[00:18] <nisshh> j1mc, im here, but im busy, whats up?
[00:19] <j1mc> well, i was thinking... i know it might not be tremendously popular, but i think there might be a good rationale for working to merge the tasks of the ubuntu-doc and ubuntu-manual teams
[00:19] <j1mc> here's some of the rationale
[00:19] <nisshh> go on
[00:20] <j1mc> - ubuntu switching to unity, requiring *a lot* of content to be rewritten (or just written) by both teams
[00:20] <j1mc> - all of that content needs to be translated by a finite number of translators
[00:20] <dutchie> j1mc: before you get too carried away, can i suggest you write this up into a mailing list post and send it to both teams' mailing lists? better for people who aren't on irc now
[00:21] <nisshh> what dutchie said
[00:21] <j1mc> - there's some risk of documentation syntax fragmentation going on... a lot of different syntaxes are being introduced into the doc world, making it so that people have to learn multiple different workflows and syntaxes to contribute
[00:21] <nisshh> j1mc, there is an issue with doing this
[00:21] <nisshh> but i will reply to the ML post, not here
[00:21] <j1mc> dutchie: i understand, i will post it to the ml
[00:22] <j1mc> just wanted to bring it up on irc first, so that people didn't feel blindsided by the notion
[00:22] <nisshh> we wouldnt have
[00:22] <nisshh> its just discussion until a decision is made after all
[00:23] <j1mc> - another reason is that the gnome user docs (which are in ubutu) are being rewritten by gnome for gnome-shell, making much of the gnome user help of limited value to ubuntu
[00:27] <j1mc> nisshh: one of the key strengths of the manual team is in making the documentation look good... and you all have done some good work over the last couple of cycles.
[00:27] <j1mc> i think we could all benefit better if we worked together
[00:27] <j1mc> i will stop for now, though
[00:29] <j1mc> please just know that i'm not attempting to start flame wars about project differences. i'm just attempting to suggest something that might be helpful
[00:30] <godbyk> j1mc: There has been some discussion in the past about collaborating more with the docs and learning teams.
[00:31] <godbyk> Unfortunately, I think everyone got busy and the discussions have stalled out at the moment.
[00:32] <j1mc> godbyk: i know that the "learning center" might be a bit far off. i think we could combine efforts before then, though.
[00:33] <j1mc> for example, this doc is written in docbook for opensuse docs: http://www.novell.com/documentation/opensuse113/pdfdoc/art_osuse_installquick_113/art_osuse_installquick_113.pdf
[00:33] <j1mc> it looks nice
[00:36] <godbyk> There's more to it than simply the format.  There's a difference in language and structure between writing a book and writing a wiki page or short tutorial.
[00:36] <nisshh> exactly
[00:36] <godbyk> I'm very interested in collaborating as much as possible.
[00:36] <nisshh> also
[00:37] <nisshh> the docs provide general info
[00:37] <nisshh> we do a lot of hand holding in the manual
[00:37] <godbyk> But it's not simply a matter of using the exact same text in both places.
[00:37] <nisshh> which would be tricky anyway
[00:37] <nisshh> considering the scope of the docs and manual are both different
[00:38] <godbyk> (Speaking to the issue of the source format: I would like to explore docbook more.  I think the default docbook-to-pdf converters do a lousy job, but I suspect that's because no one's taken the time to write decent style sheets for the pdf/latex end of things.)
[00:38] <j1mc> that's a fair point, but there are ways to accommodate content re-use.
[00:39] <godbyk> j1mc: We're definitely interested in content re-use.  It lightens the load for everyone.
[00:43] <j1mc> thanks for your time, all. i'll send a note out to the ML's about these items.
[00:43] <godbyk> Thanks, j1mc!
[00:43] <j1mc> :)
[00:46] <nisshh> cool
[12:03] <nisshh> aquarius, do you think it would be worth it having a meeting concerning the developer manual later this cycle?
[12:06] <aquarius> nisshh, certainly
[12:08] <nisshh> aquarius, right
[12:09] <nisshh> aquarius, btw, are you subscribed to the mailing list now?
[12:09] <aquarius> I am indeed
[12:09] <nisshh> cool
[12:09] <aquarius> although I have a batch of them marked unread so that I can read through in detail :)
[12:09] <nisshh> ok
[12:10] <nisshh> its the easiest way for me to announce meetings, etc, so its handy if everyone i need to contact is subscribed to the list
[12:38] <nisshh> holy moly
[12:38] <nisshh> i just got 15 mails from launchpad notifying me about 1 person who is updating ubuntu-manual bugs like crazy :)