[01:56] <robert_ancell> RAOF, what ISP are you using?
[01:56] <RAOF> robert_ancell: Internode.
[01:57] <RAOF> With what porpoise?
[01:57] <robert_ancell> RAOF, good?  I'm thinking of changing from TPG because the performance has been bad for months
[01:57] <RAOF> Yeah, Internode have been generally great.
[01:58] <RAOF> They may be more expensive, although I also bundle in a VoIP phone for free, so it's less so.
[02:00] <RAOF> But I consistently pull ~ 1.4MiB/sec from the Ubuntu mirror on mirror.internode.on.net, and 300 ~ 1000KiB/sec from various overseas places.
[02:00] <robert_ancell> RAOF, hmm, they have a lot of plans, what's the difference
[02:00] <robert_ancell> nice
[02:01] <RAOF> They've really only got about 5 plans, but 4 different ways of actually being connected ):
[02:01] <RAOF> :)
[02:03] <RAOF> Depending on how much you love Telstra's phone service you probably want one of the Naked ADSL2+ plans.
[02:03] <RAOF> If Internode have some dslam hardware available at your exchange, of course.  They probably do, Sydneysider!
[02:04] <RAOF> You can have my old port on the Cammeray exchange :)
[02:04] <robert_ancell> heh, so I don't get the difference between "Easy" and "Extreme"
[02:05] <RAOF> I don't think they had them when I signed up.
[02:07] <RAOF> I think “Extreme” == ADSL2+
[02:08] <ajmitch> why wouldn't they all be on ADSL2+ now, if there's the option?
[02:08] <robert_ancell> It says "Easy" is 2+ as well.
[02:09]  * ajmitch really needs to find out how to get this laptop cooling better before it dies
[02:11] <robert_ancell> ok, weird.  "Easy"=internode or optus wholesale network, "Extreme"= internode only, "Ultra"=optus only.  I have no idea why they're exposing these details to customers
[02:12] <RAOF> There's probably some cash involved, but yeah.
[02:12] <RAOF> It does seem rather silly.
[02:28] <robert_ancell> RAOF, do you use a hardware phone for SIP?
[02:59] <RAOF> robert_ancell: Yeah, I do.
[03:00] <RAOF> I got a SIP router/adsl modem with a rs-whatever port :)
[03:00] <robert_ancell> I was thinking is it better to get that or a SIP phone
[03:02] <RAOF> Oh, right.
[03:03] <RAOF> Well, I already had a regular phone, didn't have an ADSL2+ router, and IIRC they gave it away for free with a 2 year contract, so it wasn't much of a decision for me.
[03:56] <kenvandine> robert_ancell, hey
[03:56] <kenvandine> robert_ancell, i haven't looked at that branch yet... but is it just this patch http://launchpadlibrarian.net/57067390/light.debdif-style.patch
[03:56] <kenvandine> ?
[03:58] <robert_ancell> kenvandine, yes
[03:58] <kenvandine> robert_ancell, the light-themes package is done a bit different... probably be easier for me just to apply that patch :)
[03:59] <robert_ancell> kenvandine, yeah, that's what I thought!  Is there a problem with the upload to maverick-proposed though?  (i.e. you probably want to take into account the version number I used)
[03:59] <kenvandine> ok, i'll grab the changelog :)
[03:59] <kenvandine> and fix it in trunk
[03:59] <robert_ancell> thansk
[03:59] <kenvandine> lp:light-themes is upstream and packaging
[04:00] <kenvandine> and it is a native package
[04:00] <kenvandine> i messed it up a couple times when i was getting to know it :)
[04:01] <robert_ancell> kenvandine, add the Vcs-Bzr link into the control file - that will make it clearer :)
[04:01] <kenvandine> good idea :)
[04:01] <kenvandine> actually i think i did once, and kwwii took it out again
[04:05] <kenvandine> merged
[04:05] <kenvandine> thx robert_ancell
[05:24] <robert_ancell> pitti, can you let vala out of the new queue in natty? thanks
[07:16] <RAOF> Hm.  Are we going to be shipping the new pane-based gnome-control-centre in Natty?
[08:45] <rodrigo_> morning
[08:47] <didrocks> morning rodrigo_
[08:48] <rodrigo_> bonjour didrocks
[08:55] <rodrigo_> hmm, where do I file a kernel module bug? https://edge.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-kernel-team doesn't have a 'report bug' link
[08:56] <rodrigo_> ah, Kernel Bugs!
[08:56] <didrocks> :)
[08:56] <rodrigo_> no, https://edge.launchpad.net/~kernel-bugs doesn't have the link
[08:59] <rodrigo_> ok, found the package
[09:07] <ricotz> rodrigo_, hi
[09:07] <rodrigo_> hi ricotz
[09:08] <ricotz> rodrigo_, have you seen my merge proposal?
[09:08] <rodrigo_> ricotz, hmm, no, still going over mail, looking now
[09:08] <ricotz> ok
[09:15] <rodrigo_> ricotz, ah, adding the online patch
[09:15] <ricotz> rodrigo_, i also would suggest to clean up the changelog, i think there is no need to document ppa uploads, all changes for the official upload should go into one changelog entry
[09:16] <ricotz> rodrigo_, yes it got dropped ;-)
[09:16] <rodrigo_> ricotz, on my branch?
[09:17] <ricotz> not sure, it was an inline patch, to might be happened while the upstream import
[09:17] <rodrigo_> right
[09:18] <seb128> hey rodrigo_, ricotz
[09:18] <rodrigo_> hi seb128
[09:18] <ricotz> seb128, hi
[09:19] <seb128> rodrigo_, ricotz: keeping the ppa uploads in a changelog is fine
[09:19] <seb128> what update are you working on?
[09:19] <rodrigo_> seb128, https://code.launchpad.net/~ricotz/libcanberra/ubuntu/+merge/40051
[09:19] <rodrigo_> ricotz, looks good to me, if seb128 agrees, I'll merge it with my branch
[09:20] <seb128> seems fine, just don't use 0ubuntu2 yet
[09:20] <seb128> still use a ppa version until it lands in natty
[09:20] <seb128> it can't land before gtk3 lands
[09:21] <ricotz> seb128, hmm, keeping the ppa revisions will create quite some clutter in the changelog, it can be added locally before the upload?
[09:22] <seb128> why clutter?
[09:22] <seb128> it's just the package history
[09:22] <rodrigo_> seb128, I think we can do what ricotz says, keep the correct version in the merge proposal
[09:22] <rodrigo_> ah, ok
[09:22] <seb128> well it's the same story that people tweaking git history before merges
[09:22] <seb128> some people like to keep things the way they have been done
[09:22] <seb128> some others like to tweak history to make things cleaner
[09:23] <ricotz> seb128, i mean noise, it will look cleaner, and the official upload will get a nice changelog
[09:23] <seb128> it's a matter of taste, none is better than the other
[09:23] <ricotz> ok, just my opinion
[09:24] <seb128> I've no strong opinion but I just want to point that either is fine
[09:24] <seb128> whoever is doing the work can decide
[09:24] <ricotz> ok ;)
[09:24] <seb128> I tend to debuild -v<version_in_archive> to include the ppa upload changelog entries
[09:24] <seb128> but if other people prefer to merge things before upload that's fine as well
[09:25] <rodrigo_> ricotz, are you using natty already?
[09:25] <ricotz> rodrigo_, so it is up to you then ;-)
[09:25] <ricotz> rodrigo_, yes
[09:25] <rodrigo_> ok
[09:25] <rodrigo_> I guess I need to upgrade asap
[09:26] <seb128> rodrigo_, keep a ppa version in the changelog for now
[09:26] <seb128> I mean 0ubuntu2~something
[09:26] <seb128> to not conflict with the official natty upload
[09:26] <rodrigo_> ok
[09:26] <rodrigo_> I'll leave it as 0.26-0ubuntu1~ppa1
[09:27] <rodrigo_> well, 0ubuntu2, yeah :)
[09:29] <seb128> thanks
[09:29] <seb128> didrocks, evo bug your way ;-)
[09:30] <seb128> didrocks, bug #670747
[09:30] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 670747 in evolution (Ubuntu) "cannot import outlook pst file (addressbook, calendar, email) (affects: 1) (heat: 6)" [Low,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/670747
[09:31] <didrocks> seb128: nooooooo, not from the morning!
[09:31] <seb128> didrocks, this one seems a one liner in the rules
[09:31] <seb128> but I'm not sure if you did it on purpose on not
[09:31] <didrocks> seb128: let me have a look
[09:32] <seb128> didrocks, the pst-import is still listed in the control and .install
[09:32] <seb128> you just let the --disable-pst-import from debian it seems
[09:33] <ricotz> rodrigo_, "bzr merge" is your friend on this
[09:33] <didrocks> seb128: probably a merge error, right, as my previous SRU is still not accepted, I'll upload a new one
[09:33] <rodrigo_> ricotz, yeah, I know, just that I got the patch in .txt for reviewing it, so it was easy to just patch < ...
[09:33] <didrocks> seb128: can you kill my previous evolution upload to maverick-proposed?
[09:33] <seb128> didrocks, thanks ;-)
[09:34] <ricotz> rodrigo_, no you didnt patched it right ;)
[09:34] <didrocks> thank to you :)
[09:34] <rodrigo_> ricotz, oh?
[09:34] <ricotz> rodrigo_, the patch itself is missing
[09:34] <rodrigo_> ah, forgot to bzr add
[09:34] <seb128> didrocks, upload cleaned from the queue
[09:35] <didrocks> seb128: thanks
[09:35] <rodrigo_> ricotz, fixed now
[09:36]  * rodrigo_ upgrades to natty
[09:36] <ricotz> rodrigo_, ok :P, but using "bzr merge" is the right thing
[09:36] <rodrigo_> ricotz, yeah
[09:38] <rodrigo_> seb128, you are going to upload the gnome3 ppa packages to natty this week, right?
[09:39] <seb128> rodrigo_, yes, likely later today or tomorrow
[09:39] <seb128> why?
[09:39] <rodrigo_> seb128, just wanted to know :)
[09:39] <seb128> well things in order, we will start this week
[09:39] <seb128> we might need to wait until gtk3 built to upload other things
[09:39] <seb128> so maybe earlier next week for some of the sources
[09:39] <rodrigo_> yeah, right
[09:46] <seb128> rodrigo_, could you triage https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/evolution-couchdb?
[09:46] <rodrigo_> seb128, yes
[09:46] <seb128> rodrigo_, there is only 19 bugs on it so it should be easy enough
[09:47] <seb128> I just reassigned a bug about contact not being editable but I'm not sure what to ask on that
[09:47] <seb128> rodrigo_, thanks
[09:47] <seb128> there is also a "not synchronizing" bug with quite duplicate
[09:47] <rodrigo_> yes, that's the couchdb error
[09:47] <seb128> it might be due to the server issues during the maverick cycle and fixed
[09:48] <seb128> in any case if you could drop some comments in bugs you have a clue about that would be nice ;-)
[09:48] <seb128> thanks
[09:48] <rodrigo_> ok
[10:42] <huats> morning
[10:48] <seb128> lut huats
[10:49] <huats> hello seb128!
[11:24] <asac> chrisccoulson: this paste being broken thing in gnome-terminal ... will you fix it? :)
[11:26] <chrisccoulson> asac - oh, i think i said i'd fix it ;)
[11:27] <asac> chrisccoulson: you said "today" on oct 13 ;)
[11:27] <chrisccoulson> heh
[11:27] <chrisccoulson> i'll try and look at that this week ;)
[11:58] <asac> chrisccoulson: it works if you open the top level Edit menu once
[11:58] <asac> so its probably a keyboard shortcut lazily getting initialized :)
[12:34] <nessita> good morning everyone
[12:34] <nessita> seb128: would you be able to sponsor https://code.launchpad.net/~nataliabidart/ubuntu/maverick/ubuntu-sso-client/ubuntu-sso-client-1.0.7/+merge/40077 ?
[12:34] <seb128> nessita, hey
[12:34] <seb128> sure
[12:35] <nessita> thanks!
[12:35] <seb128> np
[12:35] <seb128> it's a stable update right?
[12:36] <pitti> seb128: are you waiting for anything in NEW?
[12:36]  * pitti just NEWed vala, as requested by Robert
[12:37] <pitti> but I can't see anything GTKish
[12:37] <seb128> pitti, not yet, got sidetracked by post UDS reviews and catching up
[12:37] <seb128> pitti, GTK will probably be latter today or tomorrow, I will drop you an email when I land it
[12:37] <pitti> seb128: that's fine; just want to make sure you aren't blocked on me
[12:37] <pitti> seb128: sounds great
[12:37] <seb128> pitti, thanks for checking
[12:37]  * pitti hugs seb128
[12:37] <seb128> pitti, how if you ubuflu today?
[12:37]  * seb128 hugs pitti
[12:38] <seb128> urg
[12:38] <seb128> pitti, how is your ubuflu today?
[12:38] <seb128> I meant
[12:39] <pitti> seb128: it never reall broke out; I guess I'm just fighting with the very dry air here
[12:39] <seb128> ok
[12:41] <nessita> seif the question was for me, yes, is a stable release
[12:41] <nessita> seb128: ^
[12:41] <seb128> nessita, it was, so don't panick if it doesn't go through until next week
[12:41] <seb128> nessita, the proposed queue is frozen until next week for linaro
[12:41] <nessita> seb128: ah, ok
[12:53] <pitti> session o'clock, cu later
[13:07]  * rodrigo_ -> lunch
[13:43] <nessita> hey guys, I'm building the natty package of ubuntu-sso-client, and when using bzr merge-upstream I'm getting:
[13:43] <nessita> nessita@dali:~/canonical/ubuntu/ubuntu-sso-client/ubuntu-sso-client-1.1.2$ bzr merge-upstream --version 1.1.2 ../ubuntu-sso-client_1.1.2.orig.tar.gz
[13:43] <nessita> Using distribution natty
[13:43] <nessita> bzr: ERROR: Unknown target distribution: natty
[13:43] <nessita> Any idea what's wrong?
[13:46] <kenvandine> nessita, distribution is ubuntu
[13:47] <kenvandine> you'll just need to manually change it to natty in debian/changelog
[13:47] <kenvandine> until you are on natty, then it will default to natty
[13:47] <nessita> kenvandine: but I'm not explicitly setting the distribution anywhere (I've never had)
[13:48] <nessita> I'm just running "bzr merge-upstream --version 1.1.2 ../ubuntu-sso-client_1.1.2.orig.tar.gz"
[13:48] <kenvandine> oh... weird
[13:48] <kenvandine> i have always added a --distribution ubuntu
[13:48] <kenvandine> because it had complained to me about not having that
[13:48] <nessita> kenvandine: for maverick packages, the exact same command always said "distribution maverick"
[13:49] <seb128> nessita, you are on natty?
[13:49] <kenvandine> maybe it just doesn't know about natty yet
[13:49] <nessita> seb128: nopes
[13:49] <seb128> ok, the maverick version probably doesn't know about natty
[13:49] <nessita> ah!
[13:49]  * kenvandine moved to natty yesterday, went smoothly
[13:49] <seb128> james_w or didrocks might know what you need to tweak to teach it
[13:50] <kenvandine> but now i fear upgrading every day :)
[13:50] <seb128> ;-)
[13:50] <nessita> seb128: thanks, I'll ask
[13:50] <nessita> kenvandine: you, brave man!
[13:50] <nessita> james_w: ping
[13:50] <seb128> kenvandine, hey
[13:50] <seb128> kenvandine, bug #655252
[13:50] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 655252 in indicator-me (Ubuntu Maverick) (and 2 other projects) "Hint not always hidden when the broadcast field is in use (affects: 22) (dups: 6) (heat: 84)" [Low,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/655252
[13:50] <seb128> what's going on with this one?
[13:51] <seb128> seems it has been fixed in trunk? is there any release planned for natty or sru?
[13:51] <kenvandine> sigh... i don't know, dbarth_ has a fix that works for him
[13:51] <kenvandine> but not me
[13:51] <kenvandine> and his fixed worked sometimes for bratsche
[13:51] <kenvandine> but we couldn't figure out why!
[13:51] <kenvandine> dbarth_, ping ^^
[13:53] <dbarth> kenvandine: yep?
[13:53] <dbarth> oh, the hint issue is still there?
[13:53] <kenvandine> dbarth, can you look at that bug again?
[13:53] <kenvandine> yeah... your fix never worked for me
[13:53] <kenvandine> and only worked for cody sometimes
[13:53] <kenvandine> but we couldn't figure out why
[13:53] <kenvandine> i also tested in a pristine, fresh install of maverick
[13:53] <didrocks> nessita: it's written in debchange script
[13:54] <didrocks> nessita: /usr/bin/debchange
[13:54] <didrocks> nessita: add "natty" to unless ($opt_D =~ /^((dapper|hardy|jaunty|karmic|lucid|maverick)
[13:54] <dbarth> kenvandine: i remember, the fix only worked with indicator-loader, but there was more of the same grab issue when running on the panel
[13:54] <didrocks> also $DISTRIBUTION = 'natty'
[13:54] <didrocks> and finally $distribution = $opt_D || "natty";
[13:55] <nessita> didrocks: awesome, thanks!
[13:55] <kenvandine> dbarth, yeah, but it didn't even work for me in the loader
[13:55] <didrocks> well, look for maverick, you will see what to change :)
[13:55] <didrocks> nessita: yw
[13:55] <seb128> or just use --distribution ubuntu
[13:55] <seb128> or copy a natty debchange version on your system
[13:55] <didrocks> seb128: it will apply "maverick" in maverick
[13:55] <dbarth> kenvandine: ok, i'll have another try with bratsche
[13:55] <kenvandine> thx
[13:55] <seb128> didrocks, well then you can edit it by hand ;-)
[13:56] <kenvandine> dbarth, there was an assert too that we weren't sure if it was related
[13:56] <seb128> dbarth, kenvandine: thanks
[13:56] <didrocks> seb128: sure, but lazyness is sometimes good :)
[13:56] <didrocks> "# In Ubuntu uploads should go to maverick" <- wasn't changed in natty, not sure it worth an upload :)
[13:58] <nessita> didrocks: I don't think that's the issue since in /usr/bin/debchange I have natty already. And the error starts with bzr:
[13:58] <nessita> bzr: ERROR: Unknown target distribution: natty
[13:58] <seb128> nessita, https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/bzr-builddeb/+bug/668764
[13:58] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 668764 in bzr-builddeb (Ubuntu) (and 1 other project) "Add Natty to the list of known distros (affects: 1) (heat: 6)" [Low,In progress]
[13:59] <nessita> Low?!?!?!
[13:59] <nessita> :-)
[13:59] <didrocks> nessita: it's not "bzr warning: Recognised distributions are"… ok, then it's not debchange (dch use "$program to fake it's the software which speaks to you :))
[13:59] <seb128> nessita, edit /usr/share/pyshared/bzrlib/plugins/builddeb/util.py
[14:00] <seb128> nessita, try adding natty to UBUNTU_RELEASES
[14:00] <nessita> right
[14:00] <nessita> awesome, works
[14:00] <didrocks> I'm puzzled why we have it there as well and not only in dch, that will be a question for james_w :)
[14:01] <seb128> nessita, great ;-)
[14:01] <didrocks> (also having that list just once in /etc will be nice, instead of multiple copies and own list in ~/.pbuilderrc as well)
[14:03] <james_w> please file a bug :-)
[14:05] <seb128> hey james_w
[14:06] <james_w> hi seb128
[14:06] <seb128> how are you?
[14:06] <seb128> kenvandine, bug #652771, do you know if that's still an issue?
[14:06] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 652771 in light-themes (Ubuntu) (and 3 other projects) ""Post message..." text in MeMenu is unreadable with default Ambiance theme (affects: 6) (dups: 2) (heat: 46)" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/652771
[14:07] <seb128> Cimi, ^
[14:07] <seb128> pedro_, hey
[14:07] <pedro_> hello seb128!
[14:07] <seb128> pedro_, how are you?
[14:07] <kenvandine> seb128, imo it is still a problem
[14:07] <seb128> grumpf
[14:07] <james_w> seb128, good thanks, how are you?
[14:08] <kenvandine> it hasn't gotten any better, but from what i hear it is how design wants it
[14:08] <seb128> james_w, I'm fine thanks ;-)
[14:08] <seb128> james_w, nice to be back without ubuflu this time
[14:08] <pedro_> seb128, better now, recovering from the darn ubuflu :-/. how are you?
[14:08] <kenvandine> seb128, it is supposed to be insensitive, but in ambiance that is really hard to see
[14:08] <seb128> pedro_, I'm fine thanks
[14:08] <kenvandine> in radiance it looks fine
[14:08] <seb128> kenvandine, it's hard to read it seems
[14:08] <kenvandine> yeah
[14:09] <kenvandine> Cimi, any more insight?  I was told that was on purpose
[14:10] <kenvandine> it's just with the dark theme, insensitive is nearly impossible to read
[14:18]  * kenvandine wonders why people actually subscribe to my identi.ca test account.... 
[14:19] <kenvandine> do they really enjoy reading "testing" "test 1 2 3"
[14:23] <Cimi> kenvandine: we might want to change it
[14:33] <rickspencer3> kenvandine, hey, have you thought of creating a test that the QA team could automatically run daily?
[14:34] <rickspencer3> a set of daily tests to make sure Gwibber is still working?
[14:34] <rickspencer3> could ensure that libgwibber keeps working too
[14:34] <jcastro> hey seb128
[14:35] <seb128> hello jcastro
[14:35] <jcastro> mark says "Jorge, I believe the current plan is that the GNOME 2 session (panel etc) would always be installed on every system anyway, so will be an option at first login and not require a special trip via the Software Center to get it "
[14:35] <jcastro> I just want to double confirm. :)
[14:35] <kenvandine> rickspencer3, have thought about it, but haven't figured out how to automate it
[14:35] <seb128> confirmed
[14:35] <jcastro> ta
[14:35] <seb128> jcastro, ^
[14:35] <kenvandine> rickspencer3, i am also thinking about trying to use dbus-test-runner
[14:36] <seb128> jcastro, it will be used as a 2d session anyway
[14:36] <rickspencer3> kenvandine, well, the QA team is going to run tests daily, automatically, using mago
[14:36] <jcastro> seb128: thanks
[14:36] <rickspencer3> so you can drive Gwibber through the UI, and ensure that if it breaks, you find out right away
[14:36] <dobey> the hard part of testing something like gwibber, will be the authentication bits
[14:36] <rickspencer3> and don't have to worry about it
[14:37] <kenvandine> rickspencer3, i would like to find a way to run tests with auth and real data from the services
[14:37] <rickspencer3> dobey, well, mago should be able to automated the sign on and such
[14:37] <rickspencer3> I think webkit is sufficiently accessible at this point
[14:37] <kenvandine> actually i hadn't really thought about mago
[14:37] <dobey> rickspencer3: i don't think you can do much with webkit with mago?
[14:37] <rickspencer3> ara ^
[14:38] <kenvandine> rickspencer3, afaik, it isn't completely not a11y
[14:38] <kenvandine> one of the reasons we are trying to get away from webkit
[14:38] <rickspencer3> kenvandine, I think it might be sufficiently, so
[14:38] <rickspencer3> they've done a lot of work on it recently
[14:38] <seb128> speaking of webkit
[14:38] <seb128> TheMuso, there?
[14:38] <rickspencer3> anyway, it's an HTML DOM, so you can just inject whatever you want, anyway, with a little work
[14:38] <kenvandine> but has it made it down to pywebkitgtk
[14:38] <seb128> TheMuso, you said webkit accessibility was still an issue for the GNOME documentation?
[14:39] <dobey> kenvandine: a11y being there has nothing to do with the bindings
[14:39] <rickspencer3> knowing right away that auth broke for twitter and/or facebook would be really handy
[14:39] <kenvandine> rickspencer3, indeed!
[14:39] <kenvandine> and...
[14:39] <kenvandine> if the API changes
[14:39] <dobey> kenvandine: what matters is finding the form buttons in the a11y tree, which may difficult as some sites do some crazy stuff for that
[14:39] <rickspencer3> right, that would be part of it breaking, they break us ;)
[14:39] <ara> yes, I don't think webkit can be automated using a11y, but maybe with a combination of a11y for the gtk parts, and some other (dbus api?) for the rest
[14:40] <rickspencer3> ara, do you think you can automated signing into a twitter account with gwibber?
[14:40] <kenvandine> rickspencer3, ara: also... all the bits of the UI that we would be driving is webkit currently :/
[14:41] <rickspencer3> kenvandine, I have no doubt that this can be automated
[14:41] <ara> rickspencer3, mmm, my first thought is that it is going to be complicated,  but we can always try something out
[14:41] <rickspencer3> I'm not willing to accept that it's not possible
[14:41] <rickspencer3> it could be "work", yes, but not impossible
[14:41] <dobey> it's software, nothing is impossible
[14:41] <dobey> it's just a matter of how much tedium it is
[14:42] <kenvandine> rickspencer3, yeah... question is finding the time to do it :/
[14:42] <rickspencer3> it's also html in a browser, which is inherently easy to get control of
[14:42] <kenvandine> rickspencer3, it will get much easier soon, i think
[14:42] <rickspencer3> kenvandine, well, automated testing is the QA team's biggest priority this release
[14:42] <kenvandine> excellent :)
[14:42] <kenvandine> i will take any help i can get :)
[14:42] <rickspencer3> did I not make this clear at UDS?
[14:42] <kenvandine> yes... you did :)
[14:42] <dobey> rickspencer3: well, as soon as you alter the html, you end up with a higher probability that an breakage is actually you, and not the site you're trying to interact with
[14:43] <rickspencer3> Unity, 2d Experience, Software Center, *Testing*, Contributions
[14:43] <kenvandine> i have talked to developers from other twitter clients... amazingly none of them have unit tests!
[14:43] <rickspencer3> dobey, you don't have to alter it, just get control of the widgets and inject your strings into textboxes and click the buttons
[14:44] <rickspencer3> c'mon, you can't tell me that it's rocket science to automate driving a web page, people do this all the time
[14:44] <dobey> rickspencer3: right, and we should really require the a11y framework to do that. becuase if the a11y framework can't do it, it's a bug we should be gettinf xied
[14:44] <kenvandine> i am hoping in the next couple of weeks we can string together a minimally functional client which is pure gtk
[14:44] <dobey> rather than writing some JS to inspect the dom and insert text and submit forms
[14:45] <rickspencer3> dobey, right ... we always wait to start testing and ensure quality until some other condition is met
[14:45] <rickspencer3> that's bs
[14:45] <dobey> no
[14:46] <dobey> that's not what i said
[14:46] <rickspencer3> I'm just saying, we could write a test now that would detect breakage right away, we shouldn't wait until we have a perfectly testable platform
[14:46] <kenvandine> rickspencer3, so i would rather start testing the backend, independant of the client
[14:47] <dobey> using the JS method as a crutch is fine, but it should be a fallback for when the a11y is failing, and we should report that the a11y is failing
[14:47] <rickspencer3> kenvandine, interesting discussion there in the testing community
[14:47] <rickspencer3> some people think you should always test the GUI, because that drives the backend, and you get testing for both in one go
[14:47] <kenvandine> before spending a bunch of time creating tests for piece of the UI that is very likely going to be replaced very soon
[14:47] <kenvandine> rickspencer3, i agree completely...
[14:47] <rickspencer3> kenvandine, well, if there are tests in place for the GUI, then when you change the GUI, you change the tests at the same time
[14:48] <kenvandine> but there are cases where you can't, especially with gwibber
[14:48] <rickspencer3> if you always wait until the GUI is "done" you never write those tests
[14:48] <seb128> well testing the GUI is nice
[14:48] <dobey> i wonder how much even basic stuff gwibber isn't doing
[14:48] <kenvandine> rickspencer3, in theory... but if the new GUI has now webkit...
[14:48] <seb128> but it's somewhat harder so usually people start by testing the backends
[14:48] <dobey> like, using pylint/pep8
[14:48] <kenvandine> dobey, oh god, i don't want to even know :)
[14:48] <rickspencer3> haha
[14:49] <rickspencer3> in any case, Gwibber is core to the desktop
[14:49] <rickspencer3> we should be testing it daily
[14:49] <rickspencer3> it integrates all over the place
[14:49] <kenvandine> i know it will bitch like crazy over the indenting :)
[14:49] <kenvandine> rickspencer3, yes... i agree
[14:49] <seb128> dobey, do you need to be pep8 to work with testing tools?
[14:49] <dobey> you really need to separate integration/acceptance/unit/etc... tests properly too
[14:49] <kenvandine> no
[14:49] <dobey> seb128: no, you can write totally shit code and have passing tests if you want
[14:50] <seb128> well the number of spaces you use doesn't really reflect code quality
[14:50] <dobey> seb128: but better code == better software, and using the lintian tools helps ensure better code quality
[14:50] <seb128> right
[14:50] <rickspencer3> they are both important
[14:50] <rickspencer3> if you care about your code lasting, anyway
[14:50] <kenvandine> rickspencer3, my point is if the amount of effort to get automated GUI tests with the current webkit stuff is high, better to make the new UI with real a11y a higher priority so the testing is easier... right?
[14:51] <rickspencer3> kenvandine, I don't believe it is that high
[14:51] <kenvandine> instead of investing a bunch of work and throw it away
[14:51] <rickspencer3> but I am skeptical that the "new GUI" is going to be ready any time soon
[14:51] <dobey> which is why we're working on making all the u1 python code pass pylint and pep8 cleanly
[14:51] <rickspencer3> you always "throw tests away" when the thing that you are testing changes, or goes away
[14:51] <kenvandine> rickspencer3, i was until UDS... but it seems to have traction now
[14:51] <dobey> and why we're building with -Wall -Werror when landing code now
[14:52] <kenvandine> rickspencer3, of course...
[14:52] <rickspencer3> also, it would only be the code that drives the UI that changes
[14:52] <rickspencer3> all the code for loading the fixtures, checking for results, etc... would all remain in place
[14:52] <rickspencer3> and gwibber is not the only thing that uses webkit, so knowing how to test it would be generally good, anyway
[14:53] <dobey> kenvandine: gwibber would probably benefit a lot from some of the stuff in ubuntuone-dev-tools
[14:53] <kenvandine> i don't know much about js and manipulating the DOM, but from what ryan and others have said it is nearly impossible with our current python-mako/python-webkitgtk stuff
[14:53] <kenvandine> dobey, i'll look today
[14:54] <dobey> kenvandine: like the test runner, to run tests against a private dbus-daemon instance
[14:54] <kenvandine> rickspencer3, one thing we can't test for in current gwibber with the UI, is all the transient errors we ignore
[14:54] <kenvandine> dobey, have you seen dbus-test-runner?
[14:54] <dobey> kenvandine: and i'm making that bit more generic so we can add other private instance services for testing, like keyring
[14:54] <dobey> kenvandine: no
[14:54]  * kenvandine suspects you guys recreated what tedg did 
[14:54] <kenvandine> :)
[14:54] <dobey> kenvandine: but i think it's different
[14:55] <dobey> kenvandine: our thing doesn't drive test through dbus, it's to prevent your dbus-using code in tests from interacting with live services
[14:55] <kenvandine> rickspencer3, i'll talk to ara to figure out what we should do asap
[14:55] <rickspencer3> kenvandine, ack
[14:55] <kenvandine> dobey, ah, i think dbus-test-runner does both
[14:55] <rickspencer3> don't forget, automated testing is a top priority
[14:55] <kenvandine> rickspencer3, gotcha!
[14:55] <rickspencer3> if you have to choose between writing a test and a feature
[14:55] <rickspencer3> choose wisely ;)
[14:55] <kenvandine> :)
[14:56] <dobey> kenvandine: well it's written for dealing with stuff in C/Vala too
[14:56] <dobey> kenvandine: and our thing is for python unit test stuff :)
[14:56] <dobey> kenvandine: as i understand it, anyway
[15:05] <kenvandine> dobey, let me get opinion from you?  i know you rarely have strong opinions
[15:06] <kenvandine> dobey, i have toyed with the idea of splitting the service modules out into separate dbus services, like telepathy does
[15:07] <kenvandine> instead of having a big monolithic dispatcher that does everything and is long running
[15:07] <kenvandine> so having the dispatcher that really just handles when and what gets done and handles the results
[15:07] <kenvandine> then the service modules could be independent, and even kill themselves after they complete their job
[15:08] <kenvandine> it would also simplify testing, because we could use dbus to test running operations
[15:08] <kenvandine> and... i think it could help us improve the threading situation we have now
[15:08] <dobey> well you could test each module independently and in better isolation too
[15:08] <nessita> may I have a sponsorship for a natty package? https://code.launchpad.net/~nataliabidart/ubuntu/natty/ubuntu-sso-client/ubuntu-sso-client-1.1.2/+merge/40103
[15:09] <kenvandine> dobey, right
[15:09] <kenvandine> i also don't think it would be much work
[15:10] <dobey> kenvandine: i suppose the main issue (which is probably a currenty issue anyway), is dealing with the timing and coordination of services, so you don't end up refreshing twitter 5 times simultaneously, if it's taking too long
[15:10] <kenvandine> that isn't an issue right now
[15:10] <kenvandine> but we could handle that
[15:11] <kenvandine> i think it would be a huge improvement for testing purposes
[15:11] <kenvandine> and make the long running process more efficient
[15:11] <dobey> if the code is done right, i don't think it much matters one way or the other, but the current code is definitely not right :)
[15:11] <seb128> nessita, ok
[15:11] <kenvandine> and, people could then write plugins in any language they like
[15:12] <nessita> seb128: thanks!
[15:12] <seb128> you're welcome
[15:12] <dobey> hrmm, need to do several MIR for narwhal
[15:14] <jcastro> kenvandine: hey, for tomboy in unity for A1, we're doing the quicklist thing so that tomboy only appears in the launcher right?
[15:14] <jcastro> we don't need it in the panel any more right?
[15:14] <kenvandine> i think so
[15:15] <kenvandine> they need to add a flag to make appindicator only display in unity
[15:15] <kenvandine> or quicklist rather
[15:15] <kenvandine> which i ran into with gwibber
[15:15] <seb128> mvo, https://code.launchpad.net/~kelemeng/software-properties/bug657835/+merge/38088
[15:15] <seb128> mvo, can you review that please?
[15:16] <jcastro> kenvandine: when you run into how to do that lmk or throw it in the wiki, I'll need to point app developers to it.
[15:16] <jcastro> so they can just go in the launcher and not clutter up the top bar
[15:16] <kenvandine> ok, you can't right now
[15:16] <jcastro> right, I know we're blocking on ted. :)
[15:16] <mvo> seb128: sure
[15:16] <kenvandine> :)
[15:16] <seb128> mvo, thanks
[15:16] <kenvandine> jcastro, right now i am exploiting a bug in unity to make it not show in both places
[15:16] <kenvandine> but lets not make tomboy do that
[15:16] <kenvandine> :)
[15:17] <kenvandine> if njpatel fixes that bug before tedg adds the flag... i'll get both back
[15:17] <kenvandine> it's a race :)
[15:17] <njpatel> lol
[15:20] <jcastro> kenvandine: what are we calling it when we blacklist apps from the top bar? Surely not "launcherify", which is what I've been calling it.
[15:21] <kenvandine> haha
[15:21] <kenvandine> not sure
[15:21] <kenvandine> i like that term :)
[16:05] <cyphermox> I wrote this quick-ish script to parse entries from NEWS files and massage them into changelog -compatible format
[16:06] <cyphermox> http://paste.ubuntu.com/525741/
[16:06] <seb128> cyphermox, great, we had some hackish scripts to get number or formatting changelogs going around with didrocks
[16:06] <seb128> yours seems better though
[16:07] <seb128> we should probably start standardizing those in the team
[16:07] <seb128> I usually just use "- bug title (lp: #)"
[16:07] <cyphermox> just going a bit farther but it's inspired on a previous discussion on this with didrocks
[16:07] <seb128> no upstream bug numbers or (authors), it becomes hard to read otherwise
[16:07] <cyphermox> it ends up looking like this for evolution: http://paste.ubuntu.com/525742/
[16:07] <cyphermox> right
[16:08] <cyphermox> it's easy enough to filter out those, at least for the names I had already written the regex for it
[16:08] <seb128> I will start a discussion about collecting those and making them standard
[16:08] <seb128> it's probably a meeting topic for next week or at least worth mentioning then
[16:11] <cyphermox> cool, yeah
[16:14] <seb128> do we have anybody there still running lucid somewhere?
[16:14] <cyphermox> pbuilder chroot fine?
[16:19] <seb128> bug #501207
[16:19] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 501207 in brasero (Ubuntu Lucid) (and 2 other projects) "sound-juicer, rhythmbox, nautilus crash at audio CD insertion (affects: 18) (dups: 2) (heat: 106)" [Medium,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/501207
[16:19] <seb128> looking for somebody to work on the sru basically
[16:19] <seb128> if somebody wants feel free to claim it
[16:19] <seb128> we might just want to do the 2.30.3 update
[16:19] <seb128> or backport the fixes, which seems to be https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/brasero/+bug/501207/+attachment/1465325/+files/brasero.working.lucid.patch
[16:19] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 501207 in brasero (Ubuntu Lucid) (and 2 other projects) "sound-juicer, rhythmbox, nautilus crash at audio CD insertion (affects: 18) (dups: 2) (heat: 106)" [Medium,New]
[16:25] <cyphermox> wow, that's pretty bad
[16:25] <rickspencer3> seb128, still around at all?
[16:25] <seb128> rickspencer3, yes
[16:25] <rickspencer3> seb128, any progress this week specific to the 2d experience?
[16:26] <seb128> cyphermox, it seems to not happen to everybody or every time but yeah it can be annoying
[16:26] <seb128> rickspencer3, in which regard? I would think the response is a no since we don't plan to change lot...
[16:26] <cyphermox> seb128, there's just one thing I want to get out of the way but then I could steal a machine here and provision it to lucid to try to work on this
[16:27] <rickspencer3> seb128, yeah, understood
[16:27] <rickspencer3> it's a priority, so I was hoping to report on some progress for it each week
[16:27] <seb128> rickspencer3, but in any case "no", just catching up post UDS and merges from debian
[16:27] <rickspencer3> but it doesn't seem very specific
[16:27] <didrocks> seb128: the only change is the first applet, isn't it? to use the one with the ubuntu logo?
[16:27] <seb128> didrocks, change to what?
[16:27] <seb128> didrocks, lack of context I think
[16:28] <seb128> rickspencer3, I can do weekly summaries but there is not a lot to say for this week
[16:28] <seb128> rickspencer3, you will get one next week ;-)
[16:28] <didrocks> seb128: for the 2D experience, the first applet presented would be the "main menu" applet with only the ubuntu logo
[16:28] <seb128> didrocks, ?!
[16:28] <rickspencer3> seb128, don't do weekly summaries
[16:28] <seb128> didrocks, where did you get that from?
[16:28] <didrocks> seb128: was discussed in the 2D experience session
[16:28] <rickspencer3> I'll glean what I need from activity reports and running the system
[16:29] <rickspencer3> didrocks, can you paste a link to the blueprint
[16:29] <seb128> rickspencer3, ok, feel free to ping with questions in any case
[16:29] <rickspencer3> seb128, I think didrocks is correct, there were some modest changes planned to make 2D a bit more like Unity
[16:29] <seb128> we said we would match unity
[16:29] <rickspencer3> and there would be the global menu, of course ;)
[16:29] <seb128> just use the indicator complet applet basically
[16:29] <rickspencer3> there, I said it
[16:29] <seb128> but still keep the 2 bars and most of the layout
[16:30] <didrocks> rickspencer3: https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/other-dx-n-2d-experience-fallback
[16:30] <rickspencer3> seb128, yeah, I think you'll need to think through the upgrade experience vs. the fresh install experience
[16:30] <rickspencer3> and be conservative in the upgrade case
[16:30] <seb128> right
[16:31] <ricotz> seb128, hi
[16:31] <seb128> ricotz, hey
[16:31] <ricotz> seb128, thanks for vala ;)
[16:31] <ricotz> if you did that
[16:31] <seb128> no, pitti did
[16:31] <seb128> but you're welcome ;-)
[16:32] <pitti> vala FTW
[16:32] <ricotz> seb128, have you noticed that libvala-0.12-dev isnt providing libvala-dev?
[16:32] <ricotz> is this intended?
[16:32] <ricotz> pitti, ^
[16:32] <pitti> certainly not; there should be a libvala-dev IMHO
[16:33] <ricotz> looks like robert dropped that provide
[16:34] <ricotz> libvala-dev is still provided by the old 0.10 package
[16:34] <ricotz> so it this might need to be fixed :(
[16:43] <seb128> right
[16:43] <seb128> didrocks, ok, the spec was not really clear by calling the applet [XXX correct name required] Gnome Menu applet,
[16:44] <seb128> we need to change the indicator applets to use the unified one as well
[16:44] <seb128> and add the appmenu one
[16:44] <didrocks> seb128: agreed
[16:44] <didrocks> and datetime as well?
[16:45] <seb128> well that's not an applet
[16:45] <seb128> it will be in the unified indicator
[16:45] <seb128> we just need to seed it
[16:45] <didrocks> right
[16:45] <didrocks> and deal with removing the older one then?
[16:45] <didrocks> as what was done with the user switching?
[16:46] <seb128> no
[16:46] <seb128> I don't plan to try to tweak updates
[16:46] <didrocks> so, two date/time widget on upgrade?
[16:47] <seb128> no way ;-)
[16:47] <didrocks> you want to make datetime indicator hide if the applet is present?
[16:47] <seb128> the way we handled the user switching is by providing the same bonobo id
[16:47] <didrocks> ok, not possible for datetime then
[16:47] <seb128> in the new case I think I will just make the first session run script delete the applet of the config if the indicator is on
[16:47] <didrocks> I was sure it was hackish :)
[16:48] <rodrigo_> ok, rebooting into natty (/me crosses fingers)
[16:48] <seb128> it's a bit hackish as well
[16:48] <seb128> but I don't have any better idea right now
[16:48] <seb128> well "if the indicator is on and datetime installed"
[16:48] <didrocks> seb128: TBH, I think I'll need this script as well for compiz settings migration (enabling unity plugin and such) so can be useful (but hackish, right)
[16:49] <seb128> ok
[16:49] <seb128> I will probably do an email to collect migrations we need to do this cycle at some point
[16:50] <seb128> then we can decide where we put the migration code
[16:50] <didrocks> sound like a plan :)
[16:50] <seb128>  
[16:50] <seb128> hey english speakers
[16:50] <seb128> -    N_("Show user own process"), MY_PROCESSES }
[16:50] <seb128> +    N_("Show user owned processes"), MY_PROCESSES }
[16:50] <seb128> sounds fine to you?
[16:57] <rodrigo_> ok, natty works, we can release today :)
[16:58] <seb128> ;-)
[16:58] <seb128> didrocks, new evo bug your way
[16:58] <seb128> didrocks, you need to keep the one evo bug a day running ;-)
[16:58] <didrocks> seb128: it's two for today! "count exceeded" :)
[16:58] <seb128> didrocks, keep it for tomorrow ;-)
[16:58] <seb128> didrocks, it's just the manpage not describing the --express
[16:59] <didrocks> seb128: depends, can treat it today if you upgrade to the "premium count" :)
[16:59] <seb128> didrocks, no hurry to fix nor sru needed
[16:59] <didrocks> account*
[16:59] <seb128> lol
[16:59] <seb128> didrocks, I've a premium whip, does it work as well? :-p
[16:59]  * didrocks runs…
[16:59]  * seb128 hugs didrocks
[16:59] <didrocks> :)
[16:59]  * didrocks hugs seb128
[16:59] <didrocks> seb128: ok, let's got that SRU accepted first, can queue it later with other bugs
[16:59] <seb128> right
[17:03] <seb128> mpt, hey
[17:03] <mpt> hi seb128
[17:03] <seb128> mpt,
[17:03] <seb128>  -    N_("Show user own process"), MY_PROCESSES }
[17:03] <seb128>  +    N_("Show user owned processes"), MY_PROCESSES }
[17:03] <seb128> does that seem fine to you?
[17:03] <seb128> that's the statusbar text for the gnome-system-monitor entry to display only the processes of the current user
[17:03] <mpt> What are user owned processes?
[17:04] <seb128> mpt, https://launchpad.net/bugs/214148
[17:04] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 214148 in gnome-system-monitor (Ubuntu) (and 2 other projects) "Bad status tip on My Processes menu (heat: 7)" [Low,Triaged]
[17:04] <mpt> oh, I see it
[17:04] <mpt> seb128, should be "user-owned", not "user owned"
[17:05] <seb128> mpt, can you drop a comment in the bug saying that?
[17:05] <mpt> k
[17:05] <seb128> thanks ;-)
[17:07] <mpt> done
[17:08] <seb128> mpt, thank you
[17:09] <jcastro> seb128: didrocks: I split up the work items in the application selection blueprint to be more milestone based, adjust if needed.
[17:09] <seb128> jcastro, ok
[17:10] <mpt> seb128, in return, could you please let through the message that ckpringle has just sent to gnomecc-list@? :-)
[17:11] <seb128> mpt, done
[17:12] <rodrigo_> hmm, we have a lot of patches in g-s-d package, looking at applying them upstream
[17:12] <didrocks> jcastro: ok, thanks :)
[17:13] <seb128> jcastro, could you change mono-team for an existing one?
[17:13] <seb128> rodrigo_, great
[17:13] <seb128> rodrigo_, ask there if you don't know what patches do
[17:14] <rodrigo_> seb128, so far they seem easy
[17:14] <rodrigo_> but yeah, will ask
[17:14] <rodrigo_> we need to review them all, since most of them won't apply
[17:14] <rodrigo_> in 2.91, so it'd be better to have them upstream
[17:15] <jcastro> seb128: well, it needs a person right? I didn't just want to assign them to laney without asking
[17:15] <Laney> jcastro: we have ubuntu-cli-mono-dev which is a LP team
[17:15] <Laney> dunno if that works
[17:15] <Laney> otherwise I am fine for that
[17:16] <seb128> re
[17:17] <seb128> jcastro, sorry got some wifi installability
[17:17] <seb128> changing ap in use
[17:17] <rodrigo_> seb128, one question, why do we change the .ad files installed by g-s-d in /usr/share/gnome-settings-daemon/xrdb/* to /etc/gnome/config ?
[17:17] <seb128> jcastro, I think a team works as well
[17:17] <Laney> yeah i suggested ubuntu-cli-mono-dev
[17:17] <seb128> rodrigo_, because /etc is for system config I think
[17:18] <seb128> rodrigo_, the debian and ubuntu systems preserve changes to files in etc on upgrade
[17:18] <seb128> where it just replaces those in /usr
[17:18] <rodrigo_> ah, ok
[17:18] <seb128> rodrigo_, so if we put something in /etc sysadmins can tweak them
[17:18] <rodrigo_> so not sure why g-s-d installs that stuff in share
[17:18] <seb128> dunno either
[17:19] <rodrigo_> well, it installs it there, and then it reads from /etc/xrdb
[17:19] <seb128> seems buggy
[17:19] <jcastro> fixed
[17:19] <seb128> I guess nobody cares about xrdb out of us
[17:19] <seb128> jcastro, thanks!
[17:20] <seb128> rodrigo_, 02_fix_randr.patch might just need to be dropped
[17:20] <seb128> we might want to look what happens without it
[17:20] <rodrigo_> yes, I was waiting for federico to ask him
[17:20] <rodrigo_> but he's not around
[17:20] <seb128> I doubt configs just fail to apply for other distros, it probably got fixed differently
[17:20] <rodrigo_> yes, looks so
[17:20] <seb128> rodrigo_, 02_missing_libs.patch is probably safe to apply
[17:21] <rodrigo_> yeah
[17:21] <seb128> 03_maintainer_mode.patch is a matter of taste
[17:21] <seb128> it's useful for distro because it means autotools will not be ran when you do any patching
[17:22] <seb128> rodrigo_, you can ignore 08_xrandr_command.patch for trunk
[17:22] <seb128> rodrigo_, it just reverted a commit that changed the command for the new g-c-c
[17:23] <seb128> but since 2.32 still had the old g-c-c...
[17:23] <rodrigo_> yeah
[17:23] <seb128> it might be something to commit to gnome-2-32 though
[17:24] <seb128> rodrigo_, 70_migrate_touchpad_config.patch can be dropped
[17:24] <seb128> it was a migration from our old capplet tab to the one which went upstream
[17:24] <seb128> some of the gconf keys were different
[17:25] <rodrigo_> ok
[17:25] <seb128> 91_update_gvc_source.patch has a bug upstream
[17:26] <chrisccoulson> yeah, we probably could have dropped the touchapd one last cycle, sorry, i forgot about that ;)
[17:26] <rodrigo_> chrisccoulson, don't worry, I'll drop it now :)
[17:26] <chrisccoulson> thanks
[17:26] <seb128> rodrigo_, 99_ltmain_as-needed.patch is a debian thing to workaround libtool issues
[17:27] <seb128> rodrigo_, don't worry about it
[17:27] <rodrigo_> seb128, so, can be dropped
[17:27] <rodrigo_> ?
[17:27] <seb128> yes
[17:27] <rodrigo_> ok
[17:27] <seb128> it's fixed with the dso build in the new toolchain
[17:27] <seb128> ie --as--needed by default
[17:28] <Laney> really?
[17:28] <Laney> that's awesome!
[17:29] <Laney> can it be upstreamed? debian has been arguing about this for ages it seems
[17:29] <seb128> Laney, http://wiki.debian.org/ToolChain/DSOLinking
[17:29] <seb128> I think it's fixed by that
[17:29] <seb128> Laney, but it's for next cycle for debian
[17:30] <Laney> great
[17:30] <Laney> look forward to dropping those
[17:38]  * rodrigo_ needs to do some shopping, bbl
[17:43] <didrocks> seb128: I'm quite unclear if there is still needed to patch ltmain.sh to take -Wl,--as-needed by default or if it's passed directly to the linker now (as ltmain.sh comes from upstream autotools)
[17:43] <seb128> didrocks, doko asked me to drop those ltmain.sh patches
[17:43] <seb128> he said it breaks things with the new toolchain rather
[17:43] <didrocks> seb128: ok, great then :)
[17:43] <hyperair> ooh, if those 99 ltmain patches are dropped, then i can use 3.0 (quilt) for autoreconf'd packages! right now i need to hook onto dh_quilt_patch and make sure autogen is run first
[17:43] <didrocks> so, it's directly the linker dealing with it
[17:44] <seb128> didrocks, right
[17:44] <didrocks> seb128: good news, thanks for the info
[17:44] <seb128> np
[17:45] <seb128> didrocks, you can read the first lines of http://wiki.debian.org/ToolChain/DSOLinking about that
[17:47] <didrocks> seb128: well, even after reading it yesterday, I was still unclear if it was just -Wl,--as-needed by default but if ltmain.sh was still needed or not to be patched to take that option
[17:47] <seb128> I think not
[17:47] <seb128> I could be wrong though but doko asked to drop those patches so I think we should be ok
[17:48] <didrocks> yeah, if doko told you that, it should be ok :) (just I don't like black magic. Hope to get some time to ask him/have a look :))
[18:02] <ari-tczew> seb128: about bug 470550: it won't be applied. see more on branch comments.
[18:02] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 470550 in coreutils (Ubuntu Lucid) (and 1 other project) "uname -p and uname -i reporting `unknown' (affects: 5) (heat: 44)" [Low,Won't fix] https://launchpad.net/bugs/470550
[18:03] <seb128> ari-tczew, thanks, I unsubscribe the sponsors
[18:04] <ari-tczew> Sure. Dunno why ubuntu-sponsors exist there.
[18:04] <seb128> didrocks, could you sponsor bug #84853?
[18:04] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 84853 in yelp (Ubuntu) "too many instances of "Ubuntu" on yelp frontpage (dups: 1) (heat: 17)" [Wishlist,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/84853
[18:05] <didrocks> seb128: sure
[18:05] <seb128> thanks
[18:06] <didrocks> yw
[18:10] <seb128> mvo, could you add https://code.launchpad.net/~ronj/software-properties/doubleclickSourceline/+merge/23891 to your review list as well?
[18:11] <mvo> seb128: sure, thanks
[18:11] <mvo> seb128: looks like you are on a review freezy today :)
[18:11] <seb128> mvo, thanks you
[18:11] <seb128> mvo, yeah, trying to clean the sponsoring queue a bit
[18:11] <seb128> it didn't get much work since release
[18:11] <seb128> or at least main didn't
[18:11] <seb128> the universe part is clean ;-)
[18:11] <mvo> yeah
[18:12] <mvo> really? crazy!
[18:15] <and471> hey mvo how was uds?
[18:16] <mvo> hey and471
[18:16] <mvo> and471: nice, you saw us on the live stream, right .) ?
[18:17] <and471> mvo, well yeah I heard you :)
[18:20] <mvo> and471: heh :)
[18:20] <mvo> and471: kind of spooky to be on TV
[18:20] <mvo> (well, stream)
[18:21] <and471> mvo, I watched at bit of the video recordings afterwards tho, so for the general ui session, yes I did see you guys :D
[18:22] <mvo> and471: you have the advantage over us now! next uds you will be able to identify us
[18:22] <and471> mvo, it was quite spooky as well when I typed in a question, and then I'd hear later "There is a question on IRC from andrew ...."
[18:23] <and471> mvo, well yeah, during the video stream I tried to look at launchpad profile pics to see who everyone was
[18:23] <and471> mvo, or guess from the conversation
[18:25] <and471> mvo, I guess that it quite a shock at uds, especially for those who live farther away form you, you have no clue what they look like, or how they sound, just their IRC nick :)
[18:25] <and471> *from
[18:27] <and471> mvo, I have been working on this just recently, I used nzmm's great developerweek session http://videobin.org/+2d2/2nm.html
[18:27] <and471> it is an iphone style on/off toggle switch
[18:31] <and471> mvo, also more SC related, here is something to think about http://videobin.org/+2ao/2l8.html , with the actual video here http://ubuntuone.com/p/Nlk/
[18:32] <mvo> and471: thanks, watching
[18:33] <and471> mvo, np
[18:33] <mvo> and471: heh :) a video
[18:33] <mvo> and471: a video in a video! (video (video))
[18:33] <mvo> and471: that is actually a longer term goal
[18:33] <and471> mvo, the ubuntuone link is a better video that I improved
[18:34] <and471> mvo, cool
[18:34] <mvo> and471: but we don't have a good server yet
[18:34] <mvo> and471: it should be easy on the client, the server part needs a bit of love
[18:34] <and471> mvo, I had the idea of 30-second videos, so that we can really squeeze it all in and be at a good file size
[18:34] <mvo> and471: how big are those?
[18:34] <and471> mvo, the webm file is only 1.3mb
[18:34] <and471> mvo, and that it quite good (I think)
[18:35] <mvo> and471: I think thats a great idea, the server code is not hard
[18:35] <and471> *is
[18:35] <mvo> and471: woah
[18:35] <mvo> and471: \o/
[18:35] <and471> mvo, webm is pretty awesome and open as well!
[18:35] <and471> mvo, also I figured that without sound, it seems a bit strange, so I had the idea that you can use sound, but only sound from the package itself
[18:37] <mvo> and471: sounds good - the stuff in use is "debshots" on the server
[18:38] <mvo> and471: I think it should be straightforard to extend that
[18:38] <and471> yeah, I guess you would have to merge that and videobin to get what we want :)
[18:38] <mvo> and471: its all nice python
[18:38] <and471> mvo, I have to confess I have never used djanjo
[18:38] <and471> (i think it is in djanjo)
[18:39] <mvo> its something else, but I forgot what it was - but it is
[18:39] <mvo> straightfop
[18:39] <mvo> forward
[18:39] <mvo> I hacked a little in it
[18:39] <mvo> and the upstream guy is super nice
[18:40] <and471> yeah I emailed him a bit about something..can't remember
[18:40] <and471> and he seemed cool
[18:40] <and471> mvo, anyway if you see nzmm tell him thanks for that custom widget tutorial
[18:41] <and471> and if you see mpt, could you show him that custom widget screencast? His networking mockups have that widget, this was actually the inspiration to start making it :)
[18:42] <and471> mvo, I shall start trying to do some SC stuff soon, I have just been floating around between projects, but SC is a lot nicer to work on :)
[18:42] <kiwinote> ;)
[18:42] <and471> :)
[18:42] <and471> hey kiwinote
[18:43] <kiwinote> hey andy
[18:43] <mvo> and471: heh - yeah! with gstreamer he video should be straightforwward
[18:43] <mvo> hey kiwinote! did you had a good trip back?
[18:43] <and471> kiwinote, are you in the uk?
[18:44] <mvo> and471: network widget?
[18:44] <and471> umm
[18:44] <and471> mvo, not for SC, this https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Networking
[18:44] <and471> under “Network Settings” window
[18:44] <kiwinote> hey mvo - yep it was quite a smooth trip back. How about you - did you manage to find something to do during your wait at the airport?
[18:45] <mvo> and471: aha, ok
[18:45] <and471> mvo, mpt is a busy guy :)
[18:45] <kiwinote> and471: yep, in the uk during term time, nl most of the rest of the time
[18:45] <mvo> kiwinote: yeah, plenty of other people around
[18:45] <mvo> kiwinote: so it was fine :)
[18:45] <mvo> and471: indeed
[18:45] <and471> kiwinote, ah I never knew! where do you go?
[18:45] <kiwinote> uni of warwick
[18:46] <and471> kiwinote, studying?
[18:46] <kiwinote> yep - maths
[18:46] <and471> kiwinote, nice :)
[18:47] <kiwinote> and471: how about you - coming to uni soon, or still at high school?
[18:47] <and471> kiwinote, sixth form college
[18:47] <and471> kiwinote, so in two years uni :)
[18:48] <kiwinote> computer science or something else? (or undecided as of now ;) )
[18:48] <and471> kiwinote, probs maths or computer science
[18:48] <kiwinote> nice ;)
[18:49] <and471> hehe
[18:49] <kiwinote> if you happen to come past for an open day, be sure to give a shout ;)
[18:49] <and471> will do :)
[18:49] <and471> kiwinote, mvo, anyway gotta go, nice speaking to you both, and see ya soon!
[18:49] <kiwinote> see you
[18:49] <mvo> have fun
[18:54] <didrocks> ok, dinner, sport and sleep :) see you tomorrow
[19:12] <mterry> seb128, heyo, was gtk3 good?  Should it go to natty?
[19:12] <TheMuso> c
[19:34] <tremolux> rickspencer3: heyo, around?
[19:35] <tremolux> rickspencer3: I want to runs something by you about the new-apps spec:  https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/appdevs-desktop-n-opportunistic-apps-stable-release
[19:37] <tremolux> rickspencer3: basically, after related discussions at UDS, I can identify no additional work that needs to be done in Software Center for this in Natty
[19:37] <tremolux> rickspencer3: so I'm thinking of retargeting back to maverick, as it is essentially complete
[19:40] <tremolux> kiwinote: hey!
[19:53] <rickspencer3> tremolux, yeah, I believe software-center itself can sit tight for this cycle
[19:53] <rickspencer3> (related to new apps)
[19:53] <rickspencer3> mterry and didrocks have a different reality ;)
[19:54] <tremolux> heh
[19:54] <tremolux> rickspencer3: well, we do have stuff to do/fix, but so far it seems manageable
[19:54] <tremolux> :)
[19:54] <tremolux> sorry for didrocks and mterry  8^O
[19:55]  * mterry rocks out in his reality bubble
[19:55] <tremolux> mterry: haha!!
[19:56] <tremolux> rickspencer3: but ok, yes, for new-apps, we seem good
[20:07] <tremolux> rickspencer3: sorry, back...so, I'm not sure how to close out the blueprint, do I just reset the Series Goal to Natty?
[20:08] <tremolux> rickspencer3: sorry, reset to *Maverick*
[20:09] <tremolux> rickspencer3: I'd JFDI, but, sometimes with blueprints in LP there's a way to do it, and a way not to do it
[20:12] <dobey> afaik blueprints don't get 'closed' but rather just get their status changed to 'completed' or 'implemented' or whatever it is
[20:21] <tremolux> dobey: yeah, except this blueprint from maverick was retargeted (and approved) for Natty
[20:22] <tremolux> dobey: so it went from "Implemented" in maverick back to the "Unknown" state
[20:23] <dobey> ah
[20:23] <tremolux> dobey: so, I would think I should just reset those two fields..
[20:26] <dobey> well i wish the worst of my problems right now was deciding the best way to mark a blueprint as done :)
[20:45] <rickspencer3> kenvandine, check this out! http://www.gnu.org/software/pythonwebkit/
[20:45] <rickspencer3> seems like it could make webkit UI a bit more testable!
[20:47] <kenvandine> yeah... i actually tried building that during UDS :)
[20:47] <kenvandine> but fails in all kinds of strange ways
[20:48] <rickspencer3> oh well
[20:48] <rickspencer3> we'd only need it to run well enough for a testing environment
[20:48] <rickspencer3> kenvandine, did it fail to build, or not work after it was built?
[20:48] <kenvandine> fail to build
[20:49] <rickspencer3> ah
[20:49] <kenvandine> well, it needed webkitgtk from git
[20:49] <kenvandine> which failed to build
[20:49] <kenvandine> aquarius and ryan were very keen on that
[20:52] <tremolux> rickspencer3: did you see my comments about the new-apps blueprint?  shall I reset the series goal to "Maverick" and reset implementation to "Implemented"?
[20:53] <rickspencer3> tremolux, if it's done, set it to implemented
[20:53] <rickspencer3> if there are more work items, set it to Maverick
[20:53] <rickspencer3> hth, I'm not sure what you need there :/
[20:53] <tremolux> rickspencer3: no, all work items are DONE
[20:54] <rickspencer3> then set it to Implemented!
[20:54] <rickspencer3> nice
[20:54] <tremolux> so I just set it to Implemented, but it still shows up in the Natty list
[20:55] <tremolux> rickspencer3: assume that's ok?  sorry for annoying questions  :-/
[20:55] <rickspencer3> tremolux, np, man, any time
[20:55] <tremolux> rickspencer3: thx  :)
[20:55] <rickspencer3> tremolux, can you paste me a link?
[20:56] <tremolux> rickspencer3: https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/appdevs-desktop-n-opportunistic-apps-stable-release
[20:57] <kenvandine> this indicator-me bug is definitely a weird race condition, it gets the focus-out signal the same time it gets the grab-focus and focus-in signals!
[20:58] <rickspencer3> tremolux, I untargetted it from Natty
[21:00] <tremolux> rickspencer3: ah great, thanks
[21:25] <XVampireX> Hey what's up again?
[21:46] <ricotz> robert_ancell, hi, could you have a look at https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/vala/+bug/671104
[21:46] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 671104 in vala (Ubuntu) "libvala-0.12-dev missing provide for libvala-dev (affects: 1) (heat: 6)" [Undecided,New]
[21:47] <robert_ancell> ricotz, ok
[22:30] <pitti> chrisccoulson: do we still need the 500.000 files in tracker? Debian has 65.000 dirs, which ought to be enough for a reasonable home dir, and avoids some overhead
[22:30] <chrisccoulson> pitti - not sure. that's currently the only change isn't it?
[22:31] <pitti> chrisccoulson: I'll sync the Debian package now (I need it to drop the second-last libdevkit-power dependency)
[22:31] <pitti> chrisccoulson: right
[22:31] <chrisccoulson> pitti - last time i checked, the debian maintainer added a patch which changed an ontology
[22:31] <pitti> chrisccoulson: I just discussed it with mbiebl, and we think that 65.000 ought to be enough
[22:31] <chrisccoulson> please don't sync that change if it's still there :)
[22:31] <pitti> okay
[22:33] <pitti> chrisccoulson: I think he reverted it, I'll check
[22:34] <chrisccoulson> thanks
[22:35] <pitti> chrisccoulson: yep, confirmed that this was reverted
[22:35] <pitti> -fs.inotify.max_user_watches = 65536
[22:35] <pitti> +fs.inotify.max_user_watches = 524288
[22:36] <pitti> it's our only diff
[22:36] <chrisccoulson> pitti - cool, thanks
[22:36] <pitti> chrisccoulson: are you okay with squashing this?
[22:36] <chrisccoulson> yeah, can do
[22:36] <pitti> so the only remaining one is packagekit-gnome
[22:37] <pitti> I'll get that ported, then we have one crufty library less and can update upower
[23:02] <ricotz> robert_ancell, thanks
[23:03] <robert_ancell> ricotz, np