[00:19] <grumbl69> hello
[00:20] <grumbl69> any experts in ?
[14:42] <Kerio2> hello
[14:43] <Kerio2> i have just installed ubuntu studio and am trying to choose a rt kernel but i cant find one. is it possible to install one from synaptic?
[14:47] <AutoStatic> Hello Kerio2, Ubuntu Studio 10.10?
[14:48] <Kerio2> yes
[14:48] <AutoStatic> 10.10 doesn't have a realtime kernel
[14:48] <Kerio2> really? :(
[14:49] <Kerio2> could you recommend one that does?
[14:49] <AutoStatic> 10.04
[14:49] <AutoStatic> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/RealTime
[14:50] <Kerio2> allright, will try it! thank you for your help AutoStatic
[14:50] <AutoStatic> You're welcome
[14:51] <AutoStatic> hope it isn't too much of a bummer that you have to downgrade
[14:51] <Kerio2> installing on virtual machine so no biggie :)
[14:51] <Kerio2> trying it out before i go live
[14:51] <AutoStatic> :)
[14:52] <Kerio2> looking for a good kernel to run counter strike gameserver on
[14:53] <Kerio2> i have tried http://wiki.fragaholics.de/index.php/EN:Linux_Kernel_Optimization several times but i cant get it to work
[14:53] <Kerio2> so i am looking for other options
[15:34]  * persia idly mentions that running an RT kernel in a VM is likely to be *slower* and have *more* latency than a -generic kernel, especially if the kernel for the host machine isn't RT (but even if it is).
[18:18] <Mystek> Just curious is it possible to run the jackd through a VM?
[18:18] <persia> Yes, but expect fairly high latency
[18:19] <holstein> you can dual boot easy enough
[18:20] <Mystek> I know, I just hate having to reboot and I tinker more with linux.
[18:20] <holstein> i would suspect tinkering with the VM would be more of a drag than rebooting
[18:20] <holstein> depending on what your trying to do
[18:20] <Mystek> The problem is this computer's soudncard is causing me problems in even Windows 7, otherwise I only have a legacy m-audio device
[18:20] <persia> Or run whatever you use less in the VM
[18:20] <persia> Which card?
[18:21] <Mystek> So I've never got much performance out of linux
[18:21] <Mystek> It's a Realtek HD Audio
[18:21] <Mystek> 7.1
[18:21] <Mystek> Plus I'm running 64 bits
[18:21] <Mystek> So I had to basically uninstall the drivers and then let Windows handle them
[18:22] <Mystek> But I get a PCM error from VirtualBox and Jack crashes
[18:22] <persia> Try with a liveCD: that ought work fine.  Realtek is getting better and better support these days.
[18:23] <Mystek> On Windows it was pretty glitchy until I removed the drivers
[18:24] <Mystek> I should try the m-audio card
[18:24] <persia> Yeah, well.  Different driver writers, different priorities.  I doubt anyone here can speak for Windows kernels.
[18:24] <Mystek> It's weird because OSS works I believe
[18:26] <Mystek> Gnome works with OSS right or is this a PulseAudio thing?
[18:26] <Mystek> Sorry I have a BSD background
[18:28] <holstein> Mystek: cool
[18:28] <holstein> that should serve you well
[18:28] <holstein> Mystek: what maudio card is it?
[18:28] <Mystek> Quattro
[18:28] <holstein> the realtik should work fine
[18:28] <holstein> i have one
[18:29] <holstein> a couple acutally
[18:29] <Mystek> Dualbooting?
[18:29] <holstein> and they work fine
[18:29] <holstein> nah
[18:29] <holstein> just ubuntu
[18:30] <holstein> this is where i check
[18:30] <holstein> http://www.alsa-project.org/main/index.php/Matrix:Main
[18:30] <holstein> i usually check there
[18:30] <persia> By default, Ubuntu is JACK or Pulse running against an ALSA backend.
[18:30] <holstein> try live CD's
[18:30] <holstein> run lspci
[18:30] <holstein> aplay -l
[18:30] <Mystek> Ok pulseaudio is running
[18:30] <holstein> arecord -l
[18:30] <Mystek> I couldn't kill it
[18:30] <persia> `pulseaudio -k` should work.
[18:30] <holstein> try and get an idea of compatibility before installing
[18:31] <holstein> launching jack control should suspend pulse right?
[18:31] <holstein> or is that changed now in maverick?
[18:31] <Mystek> Ok my card came up in aplay
[18:32] <Mystek> JackAudioDriver::ProcessAsync: read error, skip cycle Released audio card Audio0
[18:32] <Mystek> That's what happens
[18:33] <Mystek> In qjackctl
[18:33] <persia> This is on HW, or on the VM?
[18:33] <Mystek> And also when I run the command
[18:33] <Mystek> Through the VM
[18:34] <persia> So, first thing to hunt is the quality of the ALSA drivers for the emulated soundcard.  My experience is that they tend to have limited coverage.
[18:34] <persia> Which soundcard are you emulating?
[18:34] <Mystek> card 0: I82801AAICH [Intel 82801AA-ICH], device 0: Intel ICH [Intel 82801AA-ICH]
[18:35] <Mystek> But I think it might have happened with the SB too?
[18:35] <persia> That ought be OK.  Hrm.
[18:35] <holstein> yeah
[18:35] <holstein> it should
[18:35] <holstein> Mystek: is this maverick?
[18:36] <holstein> i would suggest getting a lucid live CD
[18:36] <persia> Which VM engine are you using?
[18:36] <holstein> and run those commands
[18:36] <Mystek> VirtualBox
[18:36]  * persia agrees with holstein: working with real hardware is much more likely to be a pleasant experience for audio
[18:36] <Mystek> I guess I can just dual boot
[18:36] <persia> Does booting into Ubuntu work, and it only has issues in the VM?
[18:36] <Mystek> Not like I don't have a TB and a half :P
[18:37] <Mystek> Yeah it's working great in the VM
[18:37] <Mystek> Sound works
[18:37] <holstein> Mystek: run the live CD
[18:37] <Mystek> Just can't get Jack running
[18:37] <holstein> and feel free to ask questions here before you 'pull the trigger'
[18:37] <persia> JACK exercises the audio drivers a bit more than some other things :)
[18:38] <Mystek> Would using portaudio work in the VM?
[18:39] <Mystek> Let's see if I can compile a CS score
[18:40] <Mystek> I was just curious about what I could do in the VM
[18:40] <holstein> most anything
[18:40] <holstein> just slower
[18:40] <holstein> and probably not pro-audio
[18:40] <persia> Everything should work fine, to the limits of the drivers, *except* that running anything in a VM is inherently is in a separate continuity, so you won't be able to trust any timings.
[18:40] <holstein> ive never even considered trying it
[18:41] <Mystek> I was also jsut trying to see where the state of software was at. I haven't booted Linux in like years...
[18:41] <persia> It got better :)
[18:41] <Mystek> Are VSTs supported better?
[18:42] <holstein> linux native vst's run great ;)
[18:42] <persia> There's some support for foreign VSTs, under WINE, but it's a bit awkward.
[18:42] <holstein> ask whoever makes the vst's
[18:48] <Mystek> I guess it would just make more sense to dual boot
[18:48] <Mystek> I'm just rather busy and like to multitask
[18:49] <Mystek> But just playing around in here, gave me a new idea
[18:50] <holstein> yeah, run windows in VM ;)
[18:51] <Mystek> I'm not that sold on Linux
[18:51] <Mystek> I still like Windows for a lot of things
[18:52] <Mystek> A problem with Linux is that it's almost too customizable
[18:52] <Mystek> So you get distracted a lot and blobbing can still be an issue
[18:52] <Mystek> And of course noobs :]
[18:53] <Mystek> Or devels having to take time to support
[18:53] <persia> Folks who do support mostly volunteer, so don't worry about that.
[18:53] <holstein> yeah
[18:53] <holstein> nothing like JACK though
[18:54] <holstein> for audio
[18:54] <persia> In Ubuntu, we tend towards opinionated defaults: all the choice is there behind the scenes, but we're happy to tell you how we think you should do it, so you don't have to do all the customisation.
[18:54] <holstein> i mean, i guess you can run JACK in windows and OSX
[18:54] <holstein> but the supported apps are not really there
[18:54] <Mystek> Well, what I'm really looking to do is work with portaudio
[18:55] <Mystek> But also make some cool stuff in the software that's available
[18:55] <Mystek> Which is why I'm here
[18:55] <Mystek> Even though I mainly develop for Windows
[18:55] <holstein> Mystek: glad you found us :)
[18:56] <Mystek> So what's the deal with Root now, is there no root?
[18:57] <Mystek> I noticed I could only sudo
[18:58] <persia> There's a root, but nobody uses it, and it has no password by default.
[18:58] <persia> root mostly just owns files.
[19:09] <Mystek> Alright off to install. Thanks, ttyl.
[19:56] <royvegard> After upgrading to 10.10 I no longer have access permission to my firewire Alesis MultiMix16.
[19:56] <holstein> royvegard: drag
[19:56] <holstein> JACK wont start?
[19:56] <holstein> try sudo qjackctl
[19:56] <holstein> just to make sure its permissions
[19:57] <persia> (note that if this works, there's still stuff to be done, as running in sudo means clients can't connect)
[19:57] <holstein> yeah, you dont want to run JACK as root normally
[19:58] <holstein> you have to run everything else as root, and thats not ideal
[19:58] <holstein> have a look at https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Firewire
[19:58] <royvegard> sudo works, and I can change the permissions of the /dev/fw*, but whenever i turn off my mixer /dev/fw is "recreated"
[19:58] <holstein> this is down the page a bit echo 'KERNEL=="raw1394", GROUP="video", MODE="0664"' |
[19:58] <holstein> sudo tee /etc/udev/rules.d/50-raw1394.rules
[19:58] <holstein> you'll see it there ^^^ at that link
[19:59] <holstein> that and sudo adduser royvegard audio
[19:59] <holstein> and
[19:59] <holstein> sudo adduser royvegard video
[19:59] <holstein> *should* do the trick
[19:59] <royvegard> I'll try that...
[20:00] <holstein> royvegard: works for me with a presonus firepod
[20:00] <persia> We really need to track down why.  Users shouldn't need to be in the audio group anymore.
[20:00] <holstein> persia: i havent tried not adding in maverick
[20:00] <royvegard> BTW it worked fine on 10.04
[20:01] <holstein> royvegard: i did an upgrade from karmic to lucid
[20:01] <holstein> and i had to redo those changes
[20:02] <persia> holstein, I'm sure there's still several leftovers: the kernel bits were fixed, but would need someone digging a fair bit through all the use cases to know it's no longer needed for userspace.
[20:02] <holstein> persia: when i get around to doing some natty test
[20:02] <holstein> i'll try and remember to go step by step
[20:03] <holstein> and try the firepod
[20:03] <holstein> in between each step
[20:03] <holstein> see what is not needed anymore
[20:12] <royvegard> holstein: Doesn't seem to work. Should there be two == after KERNEL?
[20:12] <holstein> royvegard: you'll need to logout and back in
[20:12] <holstein> royvegard: and yeah, check that link
[20:12] <holstein> echo 'KERNEL=="raw1394", GROUP="video", MODE="0664"' |
[20:12] <holstein> sudo tee /etc/udev/rules.d/50-raw1394.rules
[20:12] <holstein> OOPS
[20:13] <holstein> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Firewire
[20:13] <holstein> its about half way down Ubuntu 10.04 (Lucid Lynx) and 10.10 (Maverick Meerkat)
[20:13] <holstein> Everything should just work if you paste this in your terminal, and reboot:
[20:13] <holstein> ^^ looks like that
[20:13] <holstein> i might have missed something in the copy and paste
[20:26] <royvegard> I got it to work by replacing raw1394 with fw1.
[20:27] <holstein> interesting
[20:27] <royvegard> Doy you have fw1 and fw0 in /dev ?
[20:27] <holstein> its very challening to keep a simple 'how-to' going
[20:27] <holstein> royvegard: i'll have to look
[20:27] <holstein> BUT, im running lucid
[20:28] <holstein> and that above as-is worked for my firepod
[20:28] <holstein> i'll look when i go boot everything up here in a while
[20:32] <royvegard> When I was running lucid it worked fine and I never checked if I had fw0 and fw1. It would be interesting to see if you have them, or if you only have raw1394.
[20:39] <persia> That's probably a side effect of the new FW stack, which is a good thing, because it can tell the difference between different device classes.
[20:40] <holstein> OH
[20:40] <holstein> maybe a step toward using multiple FW devices again :)
[20:41] <persia> Precisely.  I think that landed for maverick, but I haven't played with it much yet (my firewire disk enclosure is somewhere in the boxes yet to be unpacked from my recent move)
[22:59] <Nils^> hey. Next version without seq24, lilypond and audacity?
[23:00] <persia> That's the current idea.  All three will be available on demand, just not present by default.
[23:00] <persia> seq24 is an *excellent* live sequencer.
[23:01] <persia> But there doesn't seem to be that many live users: most seem to want to use a sequencer for composition, and other tools are stronger at that.
[23:01] <holstein> Nils^: nothing is getting pulled from the repos
[23:01] <persia> lilypond produces beautiful scores, but it's been historically hard to maintain, and musescore has some handy features that make it easier for folks new to the tools.
[23:02] <persia> I forget why audacity was being dropped: someone might want to write up a use case for cleaning up audio to get it back.