[00:01] <glyph> lifeless: fwiw, it's not a dpush bug
[00:02] <glyph> lifeless: it's a bug in the svn mac installer, which I've reported and yelled about in here like 5 times
[00:02] <glyph> https://bugs.launchpad.net/bzr-mac-installers/+bug/621446
[00:02] <glyph> please, somebody fix this
[00:02] <glyph> it's shipping with a prerelease bzr-svn that's broken.
[00:02] <lifeless> ahh
[00:02] <lifeless> exarkun: ^
[00:03] <lifeless> glyph: perhaps you could drop a mail to the list; its more likely to catch the mac installer dudes eyes
[00:03]  * exarkun arrives
[00:03] <exarkun> btw the launchpad login experience sucks
[00:04] <glyph> exarkun: what are you talking about, it's great.  It is super secure.  What if you accidentally informed launchpad.net of your launchpad.net credentials?  that would be terrible!
[00:04] <glyph> (sorry, apparently in a snarky mood tonight)
[00:06] <glyph> also, I may have asked this one before
[00:06] <glyph> but is there any way to change qbzr's fonts?
[00:06] <glyph> the code font it has selected for me is painfully ugly
[00:07] <lifeless> glyph: no idea about qbzr, sorr.
[00:07] <lifeless> exarkun: what about the experience sucks?
[00:08] <glyph> lifeless: I suspect exarkun is complaining about the same part of the experience that I'm snarking about.
[00:08] <exarkun> lifeless: The "did you actually mean to log in" page that comes after the log in page
[00:09] <glyph> I'm on launchpad.net.  I click 'log in'.  I type my username and password, and hit 'continue'.  It then says "The following information will be available to Launchpad:", but clearly that information is _already_ available to Launchpad.
[00:09] <glyph> Also, at the top of that page it says "Logged in as ..." even though I am (apparently?) not actually logged in
[00:09] <glyph> Personally, having worked on federated authentication, I understand the difference between authenticating to the login service and relaying that authenticating to the application, but that is an extremely subtle distinction
[00:09] <glyph> that I think is lost even on most programmers.
[00:16] <lifeless> mmm
[00:16] <lifeless> so it might be useful to file a bug or two here
[00:16] <lifeless> we are working on allowing any provider
[00:16] <lifeless> - becoming a general rp
[00:19] <glyph> lifeless: That would be great.
[00:20] <glyph> lifeless: I really, really want LP to be a general RP so I can throw these credentials in the garbage, along with all of my other random web credentials
[00:20] <lifeless> yeah
[00:20] <glyph> lifeless: actually, is there a launchpad bug for that?  I'd love to be notified when it's ready.
[00:20] <lifeless> sure is
[00:21] <glyph> but still, in that case, I want the LP login service to special-case the case where I am logging in *to* launchpad *on* launchpad :).
[00:21] <lifeless> well
[00:21] <lifeless> LP doesn't have its own provider anymore
[00:21] <glyph> login.launchpad.net looks like a provider
[00:21] <lifeless> it does
[00:21] <lifeless> its login.ubuntu.com themed
[00:21] <lifeless> different DB
[00:22] <glyph> lifeless: it says "launchpad" at the top, that makes me think it's launchpad ;)
[00:22] <lifeless> I know
[00:22] <lifeless> we had one for a bit
[00:22] <lifeless> then folk used it
[00:22] <lifeless> then we move it to a different department ;)
[00:22] <lifeless> le sigh.
[00:23] <glyph> lifeless: when I said "is there a launchpad bug", what I really meant was" what is the URL for that launchpad bug" ;-)
[00:23] <lifeless> I don't know
[01:10] <glyph> lifeless: well, I spent about 20 minutes searching, and I found nothing.  So: <https://bugs.launchpad.net/launchpad-foundations/+bug/672004>
[01:21] <lifeless> glyph: https://bugs.launchpad.net/launchpad-foundations/+bug/210943
[01:21] <lifeless> glyph: its on the first page of a search for openid in launchpad
[01:21] <lifeless> glyph: I'm sorry you spent so long looking
[01:23] <glyph> lifeless: not for me it isn't
[01:23] <glyph> "No results for search openid"
[01:24] <glyph> http://bit.ly/9LDsKk
[01:24] <lifeless> https://bugs.launchpad.net/launchpad-project/+bugs?field.searchtext=openid
[01:24] <glyph> oh, I already found this bug
[01:26] <glyph> ah
[01:26] <glyph> not launchpad itself
[01:26] <glyph> or launchpad foundations
[01:26] <glyph> but launchpad project :)
[01:26] <lifeless> we use launchpad badly
[01:26] <lifeless> sorry :(
[01:26] <glyph> (ok sorry for talking about launchpad so much in #bzr, I will go back to talking about bzr in here and join #launchpad if I want to talk about launchpad)
[01:26] <lifeless> :)
[01:32] <glyph> so, regarding qbzr
[01:32] <glyph> there are a couple of places where it hard codes "Courier New, Courier"
[01:32] <glyph> and you can just edit it
[01:34] <glyph> and https://bugs.launchpad.net/qbzr/+bug/619301 is a bug about fonts, albeit maybe there should be more bugs
[01:41] <luke-jr_> Can I reconstruct a Subversion repository from a bzr-svn branch of its root? ☺
[01:49] <jelmer> luke-jr_: No, as the zeroth revision in svn is immutable.
[01:58] <glyph> jelmer: Can't you rebase onto an empty trunk?
[01:58] <glyph> oh, wait, maybe not.
[01:59] <glyph> luke-jr_: Why bother, though?  If you are in the happy situation of having lost your SVN repository but still having a bzr backup, sounds like it's time to just switch to bzr :)
[01:59] <luke-jr_> jelmer: svnadmin can load over it ☹
[01:59] <luke-jr_> glyph: bzr doesn't work nicely with subtrees
[02:00] <luke-jr_> glyph: I'd want to at least import it back to Subversion, then branch from the trunk
[02:00] <jelmer> luke-jr_: I think you might be able to do a push if you use svnadmin to change the uuid to match the original repo first, and get rid of your bzr-svn cache for that repo
[02:00] <luke-jr_> hmm
[02:00] <luke-jr_> any idea how to find the UUID? ☺
[02:00] <jelmer> it's part of the bzr revision id
[02:03] <luke-jr_> hmm, does seem to be working
[02:03] <luke-jr_> any idea if this is lossless? :P
[02:03] <luke-jr_> or at least keep compatibility with the real original repo, in case it returns someday?
[02:03] <jelmer> luke-jr_: yes, this would be lossless in terms of what bzr supports (otherwise bzr-svn would refuse to push)
[02:04] <jelmer> so svn:externals and other custom properties would be lost but svn:executable will be kept
[02:04] <luke-jr_> i c
[02:04] <glyph> jelmer: I mentioned this yesterday but just got around to filing a bug on it: <https://bugs.launchpad.net/bzr-svn/+bug/672016>
[02:04] <luke-jr_> so only lossless from Bazaar's limited view
[02:05] <glyph> but my main purpose is that I am trying to write a little shell script that synchronizes a whole repository, including all of its branches.
[02:05] <glyph> I'd like it to work with a bzr repo or an svn repo.
[02:05] <glyph> 'svn ls' isn't quite right if you've got things which aren't branches in /branches, so it would be nice if bzr branches worked right.
[02:05] <glyph> is there a different suggested method for doing this?
[02:08] <jelmer> glyph: hmm
[02:09]  * jelmer tries locally
[02:16] <jelmer> glyph: it looks like this is an issue with the way the branches command works
[02:17] <jelmer> it just find all possible places with a control directory and then filters out the ones that have branches
[02:17] <jelmer> in svn, every directory is a possible control directory
[02:20] <glyph> jelmer: While it's theoretically possible to have a branch within a branch, it seems like you'd be pretty hosed if you tried that
[02:20] <jelmer> glyph: it's perfectly possible in bzr
[02:20] <glyph> really?
[02:20] <jelmer> well, the branch inside the other branch wouldn't be versioned as such, but it can exist.
[02:21] <jelmer> (ie the container branch wouldn't know about it)
[02:21] <glyph> right
[02:21] <glyph> Well, certainly this is up to you, but personally I think it would be fair to say that anything which has the metadata to suggest that it's a branch is the end of the line for searching for more branches :)
[02:22] <glyph> and you could possibly have some configuration to disagree with that, for pathological repositories
[02:22] <jelmer> glyph: it's not up to me :-)
[02:22] <glyph> aren't you mr. bzr-svn?
[02:23] <jelmer> glyph: I guess :-) But bzr-svn doesn't get into the picture here except to answer the question "does this control directory have a branch attached to it?"
[02:23] <jelmer> so there's no way I can make it scale from within bzr-svn, bzr core has to be changed.
[02:24] <glyph> jelmer: Doesn't bzr-svn also get asked "is this a control directory?"
[02:25] <jelmer> glyph: Yes, but control directories can exist without branches.
[02:26] <glyph> jelmer: It should be possible to at least look at the directory and say 'no' if it was copied from somewhere else (i.e. probably a branch)
[02:26] <glyph> at any rate this is implementation, all I want is for 'bzr branches' to be super fast, just make it happen, etc ;-)
[02:30] <jelmer> glyph: I don't think copies are a good indication of whether something is probably or not probably a branch. Also, finding out will have a performance impact too.
[02:30] <jelmer> I'd like to fix this properly, by having bzr ask bzr-svn for the list of branches in a repository. I'm just not sure yet what the proper API for that is.
[02:33] <glyph> jelmer: My understanding is that SVN's revision calculus makes it formally impossible to determine the list of branches in the repository.
[02:33] <glyph> All you can do is look to see if a directory was copied from 'trunk' or something that looks like it.  Is that wrong?
[02:34] <jelmer> glyph: yes, but bzr-svn has a mechanism for determining what is a branch and what isn't.
[02:34] <jelmer> glyph: that's what e.g. "bzr svn-import" uses to determine what branches to import.
[02:36] <glyph> jelmer: oh.  I always assumed that _was_ the mechanism.  What's the actual rule?
[02:37] <jelmer> glyph: it uses heuristics to find out what repository layout a svn repository has and then uses that layout, which is usually path-based.
[07:02] <spiv> mgz: http://washort.twistedmatrix.com/2010/11/unicode-in-python-and-how-to-prevent-it.html
[18:03] <loldrup> ...how do I tell which revision my branch is currently at? Neither 'status', 'log' or 'info' tells
[18:03] <lifeless> bzr revno
[18:03] <lifeless> or bzr log -r -1
[18:03] <loldrup> thanks :)
[18:24] <gthorslund> loldrup: if you've done a bzr update -r<oldrevno> then you'll need bzr version-info to get it
[18:31] <lifeless> gthorslund: bzr revno --tree
[18:37] <gthorslund> lifeless: aha! I've missed that one. thx
[20:48] <glyph> so, I'm getting on a plane in 15 minutes
[20:48] <lifeless> \o/
[20:49] <glyph> can anyone figure out why svn+ssh://svn.twistedmatrix.com/svn/Twisted/branches/modules-so-2871 thinks that it needs to branch 14341 revisions, in a shared repository with an up to date copy of svn+ssh://svn.twistedmatrix.com/svn/Twisted/trunk
[20:49] <glyph> in less than that amount of time?
[20:50] <glyph> (svn+http should work as an anonymous mirror of the same thing)
[20:50] <lifeless> well
[20:50] <lifeless> jelmer: probably can, but I'd expect tha tmost of the history is identical and the progress counter should do a huge jump and be done quickly.
[20:51] <glyph> well, no
[20:51] <glyph> I know what it looks like when it does that
[20:51] <lifeless> ok
[20:51] <glyph> and it's definitely not doing that now
[20:51] <lifeless> don't stop the operation
[20:51] <glyph>   4519kB    15kB/s | copying revision 1126/14341
[20:51] <glyph> oh
[20:51] <glyph> oh I'm a liar
[20:51] <lifeless> but what does 'bzr missing svn+ssh://svn.twistedmatrix.com/svn/Twisted/branches/modules-so-2871 say, run from your trunk mirror
[20:52] <glyph> I have an up to date copy of http://svn.twistedmatrix.com/bzr/Twisted/trunk
[20:52] <glyph> who knows what the differences are there
[20:52] <lifeless> if its the same bzr-svn version, it should be the same-same.
[20:52] <lifeless> OTOH perhaps its building its bzr-svn cache first, if this is the first direct to svn operation you've done.
[20:52] <lifeless> that can take a little time.
[20:54] <mwhudson> jam: oops, i wish i hadn't subscribed to ~jameinel/launchpad/lp-service :-)
[20:55] <glyph> lifeless: nope, not that either.  I just made sure that I did have an up-to-date trunk; branching trunk took no time at all
[20:55] <glyph> there's something wonky with that branch
[20:55] <glyph> I'll have to repro this when I have better network connectivity and more time, I guess.
[20:55] <glyph> Maybe I'll get lucky and the plane will have wifi ;)
[20:56] <lifeless> good luck.
[20:57] <glyph> lifeless: thanks for the attempt at help, anyway :)
[20:57] <lifeless> :P
[20:58] <mwhudson> glyph: if the branch was branched at the wrong level in svn, it can behave like that
[20:58] <glyph> mwhudson: it wasn't; it's right under /branches, it's a copy of trunk
[20:58] <glyph> mwhudson: I mean, you have the appropriate credentials, go ahead and inspect it :)
[20:58] <mwhudson> that's unlikely if combinator is being used
[21:01] <mwhudson> glyph: well, i'm trying to reproduce at leat
[21:01] <mwhudson> *least
[21:02] <mwhudson> glyph: ok yeah, i see the same
[21:06] <mwhudson> oh hang on, different versions of the svn mapping in effect?
[21:09] <mwhudson> glyph: it seems lp:twisted contains a mix of the v3 and v4 bzr <-> svn revid mappings
[21:12] <mwhudson> and when you import from svn, you just get the v4 mappings
[21:18] <spiv> mwhudson: a mix?  That seems odd.
[21:19] <spiv> Aren't they unrelated ancestries from bzr's point of view?
[21:20] <mwhudson> spiv: it does a bit doesn't it?
[21:26] <mwhudson> and it seems that bzr-svn is somehow smart enough to know that
[21:26] <mwhudson> bzr log --show-ids svn+ssh://svn.twistedmatrix.com/svn/Twisted/trunk -r 14639
[21:26] <mwhudson> should give a v3 revid
[21:26] <mwhudson> but not smart enough to know that svn+ssh://svn.twistedmatrix.com/svn/Twisted/branches/modules-so-2871 -r 14639 should too
[21:27] <mwhudson> ... no
[21:28] <mwhudson> oh right
[21:28] <mwhudson> yes
[21:29] <mwhudson> i guess this is a bzr-svn bug
[21:37] <spiv> mwhudson: how does bzr-svn know that 14639 should be svn-v3?
[21:37] <mwhudson> spiv: magic jelmer sauce?
[21:38] <mwhudson> spiv: actually, i guess that because there are revisions in tm.com svn that are actual bzr commits, this somehow forces all older commits to be of a known mapping
[21:46] <spiv> hmm!
[21:49]  * mwhudson wants to know what bzr log --show-ids svn+ssh://svn.twistedmatrix.com/svn/Twisted/branches/modules-so-2871 -r 14775 says, but it's taking freaking ages
[21:49] <mwhudson> ah
[21:49] <mwhudson> bzr: ERROR: Requested revision: '14775' does not exist in branch: svn+ssh://svn.twistedmatrix.com/svn/Twisted/branches/modules-so-2871
[21:50] <mwhudson> i think maybe what's happening is that the revision that 'forces' the trunk into v3 mapping isn't present in modules-so-2871
[21:59] <spiv> mwhudson: ah, that seems plausible
[22:00] <mwhudson> i don't know what you could do about that
[22:02] <spiv> nothing pleasant, I suppose...
[22:03] <spiv> Well, Twisted could land branches faster? ;)
[22:03] <mwhudson> yeah, that would definitely help
[22:26] <peitschie> mornin all :)
[23:07] <mgz> thanks for that link spiv.
[23:39] <spiv> mgz: you're welcome!  I haven't actually tried ascii_with_complaints yet myself... I suspect the noise will be a bit overwhelming.
[23:43] <mgz> I think part of the pain is there's no decent way to specify interfaces.
[23:44] <spiv> As in “the first arg of this function takes unicode not bytes”?
[23:44] <mgz> every time you write a function or method that takes some kind of string, you don't want to write a type check at the top.
[23:45] <mgz> as generally that should have already been handled somewhere else anyway.
[23:45] <spiv> Yeah.
[23:45] <spiv> Well, it was handled somewhere else...
[23:45] <spiv> That somewhere else being ~1970, where only ASCII mattered ;)
[23:49] <NET||abuse> hi folks, i'm a bit confused, i have a branch on my local machine of a repo on my server, i also hhave a branch on the server for deployment, but i also made a sql backup to the server branch and checked that in on the server, but i can't get the updated sql back down on my local machin.e
[23:51] <NET||abuse> hmm, never mind, backupappeared after i pushed tothe server...??? werid