rodrigo_diwic, are we having the meeting?13:04
diwicrodrigo_, heh, wish I knew :-)13:04
rodrigo_ok :)13:04
diwicrodrigo_, seems like it's difficult to schedule a time that works for everybody13:05
diwicronoc, are you around?13:05
ronocyeah so I can do Monday evening13:05
ronocdiwic, rodrigo_ also I have installed the new pulse, seems to be fine, the dbus api isn't as advanced as I had hoped13:06
diwicMootBot, help13:06
rodrigo_what is it missing?13:06
ronocrodrigo_, well unless I'm missing something I cannot see the api for sink control, mute, set volume etc13:07
diwic[TOPIC] PulseAudio - stable-queue or master?13:07
diwic!topic PulseAudio - stable-queue or master?13:07
ubottuError: I am only a bot, please don't think I'm intelligent :)13:07
diwicso I was talking to Lennart last week at Plumber's13:08
ronochow was that ?13:08
diwiclong story short, going the "master" way is problematic13:08
diwiche's planning a major rewrite of some stuff there13:09
diwicwe can't expect it to be stable enough in time for Natty13:09
diwicgoing the stable-queue is boring ;-)13:09
rodrigo_yes :)13:10
ronocwhen is he expected to get back to working on pulse13:10
diwicronoc, that's difficult to know. I might expect a release of stable-queue within the following two weeks13:10
diwicronoc, other than that, nothing major the coming two months13:11
diwicronoc, that's my qualified guess, Lennart hasn't really promised anything13:11
ronocdiwic, okay so is there anything you would like to see from master for natty ?13:11
rodrigo_well, then we go with stable :)13:12
ronocdoes make your life easier :)13:12
rodrigo_yes, although a bit boring, as you said13:12
diwicronoc, I'm not really sure. But if you don't have use for the d-bus API anyway there isn't really anything pressuring us to go with master13:13
rodrigo_btw, we have 0.9.22 in natty, but only 0.9.21 upstream, are those a git snapshot?13:13
rodrigo_ronoc, what do you want the dbus api for?13:13
ronocrodrigo_, diwic I was going to rewrite the pulse communication for the sound server using the dbus api13:14
ronocbut as it turns out I think i will rewrite this using the vala bindings13:14
ronocand the async api as I used for lucid and maverick13:14
ronocMy C from early last year is a bit all over the place to say the least13:15
diwicrodrigo_, both maverick and natty have 1:0.9.22~0.9.21+blahblah13:15
rodrigo_ronoc, if you need help on the C part, I can help you13:15
diwicrodrigo_, I don't know why the version is so strange, guess we'll have to ask Luke about that13:15
rodrigo_although vala is nicer13:15
rodrigo_diwic, ok13:16
diwicrodrigo_, but we're hoping for a 0.9.22 release based on stable-queue really soon.13:16
ronocrodrigo_, thanks, I have it working, its not that complicated but I think i made a meal of it last February, I could rewrite this in vala quite easily i think13:16
ronocmight have time this cycle13:17
diwicronoc, why do you want to rewrite C code into vala?13:17
diwicronoc, are you planning improvements or do you just want to switch language because you like vala better?13:18
ronocdiwic, because a) the existing code needs major refactoring, b) maintainability C) testing and D) test the vapi bindings for further work13:18
diwictopic test13:18
diwicwould that be only for indicator-sound or gnome-volume-control as well?13:19
rodrigo_ronoc, in which package/module is that code?13:19
ronocrodrigo_, indicator-sound -> src/pulsemanager.c pulsemanager.h13:19
ronocdiwic, just indicator-sound13:20
ronocdiwic, the plan is to wait for the gnome control panel to land before we know what we want13:20
rodrigo_the new gnome-control-center panel?13:21
diwicok, is this gnome 3 control panel?13:21
rodrigo_if so, I have master g-c-c running on a dev user, if you want me to look at anything13:22
rodrigo_diwic, hmm, I think it's #startmeeting13:22
MootBotMeeting started at 07:22. The chair is diwic.13:23
MootBotCommands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]13:23
rodrigo_at least I've seen #endmeeting13:23
diwic#topic pulseaudio - master or stable-queue13:23
diwic[topic] pulseaudio - master or stable-queue?13:23
MootBotNew Topic:  pulseaudio - master or stable-queue?13:23
diwic[agreed] to go with stable-queue for the time being as the d-bus API in master wasn't all that ronoc wanted, and since a rewrite is planned on master by Lennart.13:24
MootBotAGREED received:  to go with stable-queue for the time being as the d-bus API in master wasn't all that ronoc wanted, and since a rewrite is planned on master by Lennart.13:24
ronocdiwic, grand13:25
diwic[topic] any audio bugs we should have a closer look at during the coming week?13:25
MootBotNew Topic:  any audio bugs we should have a closer look at during the coming week?13:25
diwicokay, moving on13:27
ronocam I haven't seen any, only the pa-stream-writable failed13:27
diwic[topic] anything in particular done in the previous week?13:27
MootBotNew Topic:  anything in particular done in the previous week?13:27
ronoclast week, got two sru's out for lucid and maverick13:27
diwicronoc, for indicator-sound?13:27
ronocand merged my UI natty work into trunk13:27
rodrigo_not much from me, was working on other desktop-related stuff13:27
diwicFor my own part, I was at plumber's13:28
ronoctoday i'm working on a fading mute behaviour13:28
ronochow was it ?13:28
rodrigo_we have some bugs though about porting indicator-* stuff to gsettings, gtk3 and gtkbuilder13:28
ronocI must read your report13:28
diwicI learned how to use the wakeup_rt tracer which can be important for tracking down xrun13:28
rodrigo_these will be fixed as soon as the new stack gets in (it's in a PPA for now)13:29
ronocdiwic, whats that13:29
ronocrodrigo_, cool13:29
diwicronoc, basically, if a kernel driver is blocking pulseaudio from being scheduled, it can help to show the troublesome areas13:30
diwic(or jack, for that matter)13:30
ronocdiwic, good to know13:30
diwicronoc, what's fading mute behaviour?13:31
ronocdiwic, when someone chooses mute from the menu, it should fade exponentially the volume and slider to 0, unmuting should restore the slider to its original position13:33
ronocdiwic, a bug against indicator-sound for unity13:33
rodrigo_oh, that's cool13:33
ronocyup should be pretty easy13:33
diwiccool, for absolute coolness you should also lower the sound frequency, but I guess that's much harder :-)13:34
diwicthe question is whether that should be in PulseAudio or indicator-sound, really13:34
ronocdiwic, true13:35
diwicyou're probably going to have to rewrite that once Lennart gets the volume envelope architecture working13:35
rodrigo_I guess PA, so that when you mute from other parts, it works the same13:35
ronocdiwic, whats the volume envelope architecture ?13:35
diwicronoc, some kind of way to apply a volume envelope to a sound13:36
diwicare you familiar with volume envelopes, e g ADSR envelopes?13:37
ronocdiwic, yes13:37
ronocdiwic, so that should cover what I'm currently doing13:37
ronocbut its not a biggie13:37
diwicso he merged something from Intel into master but then realized it was broken, so he wants to rip it out, which is part of the major rewrite planned for master13:38
ronocand as you mentioned earlier no date has been set for when his work is to land13:38
diwicso as long as you're prepare to rewrite it in a year or two13:39
ronocdiwic, sure13:39
ronocthe nature of the ever revolving beast ...13:39
ronocevolving even13:40
diwic[topic] anything you plan to do in the coming week?13:41
MootBotNew Topic:  anything you plan to do in the coming week?13:41
rodrigo_for me, when the GTK3 stack lands in natty, probably start fixing the indicator-* bugs13:41
ronocwhen is that rodrigo_ ?13:41
rodrigo_ronoc, should be soon, seb128 is going to do it soon13:42
ronocremove dbus-glib bindings and use gdbus13:42
ronocrodrigo_, grand13:42
ronochopefully this week13:42
ronocand plan other indicator work13:42
rodrigo_well, dbus-glib is ok to be used, it's not on the deprecation list, but yes, it's a good idea to move to gdbus asap13:42
ronocrodrigo_, yeah I think the plan is for all indicators, libindicate dependent stuff to be moved over for alpha 113:43
ronoci go on holidays on the 22 so need to do in the next two weeks !13:43
ronocmore than likely starting today13:44
diwicfor myself, I want to process some backlog from the weeks I were at UDS and Plumber's, then try to get started on the apport troubleshooting stuff13:44
rodrigo_hey guys, I need to leave now for lunch, are we done? or should I read the backlog later?13:45
diwicI think we're done13:45
ronocall good13:45
rodrigo_ok, I'll read the backlog later just in case :)13:45
diwiccool, see you!13:45
MootBotMeeting finished at 07:45.13:45
ronoctalk later robbiew13:45
ronoctalk later rodrigo_13:45
rodrigo_oh, btw, gtk3 has just been accepted13:45
ronocoh okay13:45
ronoclunch isn't a bad idea actually13:46
ronoctalk afterwards guys13:46
=== yofel_ is now known as yofel
=== rodrigo__ is now known as rodrigo_
=== jdstrand_ is now known as jdstrand
=== kenvandine_ is now known as kenvandine
=== lukjad is now known as Guest63875
mdeslaurkees, jdstrand, sbeattie: meeting?18:04
mdeslaurwhoops...forgot you jjohansen  :)18:05
jjohansensure, I believe you "forgot" me :)18:05
keesmdeslaur: you start?18:08
mdeslaurso, this week I'm on community, and am working on the long list of mysql CVEs18:10
mdeslaurthat should keep me busy18:10
mdeslaurthat's it!18:10
mdeslaurjdstrand: your turn18:10
jdstrandI plan to test and push out chromium-browser today18:11
jdstrandthere are 2 other updates I am looking at and may snag18:11
jdstrandI hope to get to my natty merges18:11
mdeslauryou nasty merges?18:12
jdstrandthere is a libvirt regression for lucid (well it affects maverick and natty too, but the security update didn't introduce it)18:12
jdstrandI need to upload that to lucid-- upstream and I are still discussing it18:13
jdstrandand finally, I need to dive into the dbus/apparmor stuff18:13
jdstrandjjohansen: I've gotten your emails but don't have anything intelligent to say yet18:13
jjohansenjdstrand: np18:13
jdstrandthat's it from me18:13
jjohansenits just an initial pass from me18:13
keesI'll go?18:14
jjohansenI'm sure I'll spew out more as I work on the interface18:14
keesI'm going to be trying to drum up support for upstream kernel hardening this week.18:14
keesthere's some discussions started on oss-security and lkml so far.18:14
keesdan's sent some patches, etc18:14
keesI got the initial pass at apparmor repackaging done and haven't seen anything horrible yet18:15
keesnow we can move forward more sanely on things like moving the cache directory, etc18:15
keesadding bindings18:15
keesI've upgraded to natty now as well, and am finding little glitches18:16
jdstrandkees: apparmor glitches?18:16
jjohansenwhat kind of glitches?18:16
keesI did a few merges last week, will continue with a few more this week18:16
keesjdstrand: no, natty glitches.18:16
jjohansenah, yes it is really buggy atm18:16
jdstrandI've heard the natty kernel is less than ideal atm18:16
keesjdstrand: like, gnome-open suddenly stopped using the correct browser18:16
keesyeah, the natty kernel is unusable for me18:16
keesnetwork storms using NFS, missing locking, wheee18:17
keesI'm on the maverick kernel with natty userspace18:17
jdstrandkees: see, you just need to stop using NFS and then the devel release will always work for you :P18:17
keesand I've got a few _large_ php audits I need to do18:17
keesjdstrand: yeah :(18:17
keesthat's it from me, sbeattie, your turn18:17
* jdstrand finds it odd how often NFS gets borked in the dev release18:17
sbeattieI'm on triage this week.18:18
sbeattieI'll also finish up reviewing the apparmor parser patches jjohansen sent out18:18
sbeattieand I'm hoping to test the maverick apparmor SRU as well.18:19
sbeattieI think that's all from me.18:19
jdstrandwas it copied yet?18:19
jjohansenI'll have some more ugly patches for you this week18:19
jdstrandI should add that I will test the apparmor SRUs whenever they hit lucid and maverick proposed18:19
sbeattiejdstrand: not sure, I hadn't looked, but I was expecting we'd come out of linaro freeze this week.18:20
jdstrandI hope so...18:20
jdstrandsbeattie: it doesn't look like it. it is still 10.10.1 which ftbfs on the buildds18:20
jdstrand(10.10.2 is in UNAPPROVED atm)18:20
jdstrandand a new lucid upload is also in UNAPPROVED: https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/lucid/+queue?queue_state=1&queue_text=apparmor18:21
jdstrandwell, new as of 4 days ago18:22
sbeattiecool. I'm also planning to test lucid's SRU whenever it gets approved.18:22
jdstrandI followed up with pitti, so now we just need to wait on his response to my followup18:22
* jdstrand should have really mentioned all the apparmor SRU stuff during his time)18:23
* jdstrand is done for the second time18:24
sbeattiealright, anyone else have anything for the security team? jjohansen?18:25
jjohansenhrmmm, well nothing immediate, I am just going to drop more parser patches this week, and setup an apparmor ppa18:25
jjohansencontaining the newer stuff for testing purposes18:26
jjohansenI also expect the interfaces jdstrand needs for dbus to hit this week18:26
sbeattiejjohansen: cool, let me know if I can help with setting up the ppa.18:26
jjohansensbeattie: will do, I haven't looked at userspace yet, I will get the kernel up first18:27
jjohansenI think I'm done unless you want more details of my crazy plans18:28
keesokay, sounds like we're all set. thanks!18:37
jdstrandthanks kees :)18:43
bdrungnow dmb meeting?19:01
geserbdrung: didn't start yet19:03
bdrunggeser: we are four minutes late. let's start it.19:04
gesercjwatson, persia, stgraber, cody-somerville, soren: DMB meeting?19:04
* stgraber waves19:05
cody-somervilleIsn't it in an hour?19:05
bdrungcody-somerville: nope. it's winter time.19:05
geser19:00 UTC is now19:05
cody-somervillethat it is19:06
* geser counts 4 DMB members -> quorum19:08
geserwho chairs?19:08
* persia is semi-distracted by a plumbing problem and begs off19:08
MootBotMeeting started at 13:10. The chair is stgraber.19:10
MootBotCommands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]19:10
stgraber[LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DeveloperMembershipBoard/Agenda19:10
MootBotLINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DeveloperMembershipBoard/Agenda19:10
stgraber[TOPIC] Review of previous action items19:10
MootBotNew Topic:  Review of previous action items19:10
stgraberok, according to the wiki, we don't have any previous action items, though looking at the log of our last meeting, I see an action for geser to contact CC for help regarding Marco's request19:11
stgrabergeser: was that an actual action item that we forgot to put on the agenda or did we choose to do something else instead (I don't really remember the details) ?19:12
geserstgraber: wasn't that sort of canceled later in the meeting again?19:12
stgrabergeser: it may have, though if we did, I'm not really sure of where we are regarding Marco's request then19:13
persiaFrom the log, I wasn't sure it was conclusive (although I'd like to see something done about Marco at some point relatively soon)19:13
geserpersia: +119:13
stgraberdo we still want to get some help from the CC ? and if so, should we still have geser to bring it to the CC ?19:14
geserlooking at the meeting log from last meeting we want to move the discussion about how to move on to the mailing list19:15
geserI remember writing an e-mail about it but didn't see any reaction to it19:16
ScottKWhat mailing list?19:16
stgraberScottK: developer-membership-board@l.u.c19:17
ScottKstgraber: Thanks.19:17
stgrabershould we try to revive this discussion on the mailing list with the goal of having an answer for the next DMB meeting ?19:18
persiaIsn't that the just-us list, with devel-permissions@ being the wide-subscription list?19:18
stgraberpersia: yes, I belive it's19:18
ScottKstgraber: This is a private list?19:18
bdrungScottK: yes. subscription needs to be accepted.19:19
ScottKSeems to me like business that should be conducted in public.19:20
bdrunglifting the ban on Marco means that he can contribute to Ubuntu through a sponsor. right?19:21
persiastgraber, Please give me an action to ask the CC for assistance on this.  It's not clear whether the dispute aspects of the MC were inherited by the DMB (in practice, it hasn't mattered until this issue), so that needs sorting, and I think we've been dragging this out long enough we need help.19:21
geserScottK: we are still at the point where we don't know how to move forward :(19:21
persiabdrung, Yes, and only that.  It does not grant him any specific rights to do so.19:22
stgraber[action] persia to ask the CC for assistance regarding Marco's request for unban19:22
MootBotACTION received:  persia to ask the CC for assistance regarding Marco's request for unban19:22
ScottKgeser: I would say that's exactly the time to be working in public.19:22
bdrungpersia: did he had upload rights before he was banned?19:22
ScottKbdrung: No.19:22
ScottKAllowing him to contribute via a sponsor is the same as removing all restrictions.19:23
stgraberanything else that should be discussed now regarding this matter or should we wait for feedback from the CC ?19:23
geserScottK: cody-somerville mentioned in the last meeting that he prefers not to draw to much attention with making it too public19:24
persiabdrung, He's an ubuntu member, and not an ubuntu developer (and never was).  He is not allowed to post to Ubuntu Development mailing lists or IRC channels, except as necessary for administration of his restriction.19:24
ScottKgeser: That doesn't make it appropriate that it be decided in private.19:24
persiageser, Dragging it out as long as we have brings much more attention than any public/private concerns.19:24
geserI understand it, I just want to repeat some options which caused that we still don't know how to move forward19:25
persiaScottK, I agree the decision must not be private.  I'm unconvinced that a council oughtn't be able to determine how to make a decision (or not make it) in private, presuming they do so in a timely manner, and make the decided means of decision public.19:27
persia(although in this case, I think the lack of action by the DMB in determining a method is essentially consensus-through-inaction that it ought be someone else's problem (so call on the CC))19:27
ScottKpersia: I think deciding in private how this will be decided would substantially impair the legitimacy of the result in the minds of at least some community members.19:28
geserI guess that the best idea (ask the CC) to break the current dead-lock19:28
bdrungi don't see why it's an problem of the DMB. who spoke the ban back then?19:28
persiabdrung, The MC.19:28
ScottKbdrung: MOTU Council19:28
geserand the MC merged into the DMB19:29
cody-somervilleIts important to me that this not be a popularity contest.19:29
persiageser, Well, kinda.  Complex that :)19:29
bdrungif the DMB can speak a ban, it should be able to lift the ban.19:29
geseras I see the problem, we (the DMB) want some more support (as requested in the ban) before we lift it, but we aren't sure how the support should look like19:30
ScottKcody-somerville: I agree with that.19:30
cody-somervilleAnd it feels like the requirements for Marco to appeal his ban as set by the former MC make that difficult.19:30
persiacody-somerville, How do you mean?19:30
ScottKgeser: I think putting it that way presupposes the ban should be lifted.  I object to that.19:31
geserScottK: so you see no way for him to lift the ban at all?19:31
ScottKgeser: It's my preference that it not be lifted.  I don't object to considering the question, but the way I read you comment seemed to me to presuppose an answer, not just ask a question.19:32
cody-somervilleThe requirements for Marco's ban to be lifted are as follows:19:33
cody-somerville1. MOTUs supporting this wish actively.19:33
cody-somerville2. A solid indication of changes in the work style.19:34
bdrungi have a concern: how can someone get support from other MOTUs if he/she can't show that he/she has changed?19:34
cody-somervillebdrung, bingo. My question too.19:34
geserbdrung: congrats, you found the dilema :)19:34
ScottKI think there are plenty of MOTU active in areas where he's not banned (most of Debian) for them to form an opinion.19:35
bdrungas alternative: a "soft" lift with not everything allowed?19:36
persiabdrung, Absolutely not.  There's no useful meaning of "soft".19:36
stgraberok, we only have 25 minutes left for this meeting and still have two applications to review. For now persia has an action to ask the CC for help, so I suggest we carry this discussion to the next meeting.19:36
persiaSeveral MOTU (interacting with him in Debian), have commented on his application.19:36
=== lifeless_ is now known as lifeless
geserbdrung: how would that look like and still be different from any other non-MOTU?19:36
persiaOur decision ends up being one of the following: 1) it's not our problem, 2) he has met the criteria, 3) he has yet to meet the criteria.19:36
* persia agrees with stgraber19:37
* micahg wonders why the meeting is 1 hr and not 219:37
gesermicahg: because it would be then 3 hours long19:37
bdrunggeser: good question. maybe irc access to get in contact with motus?19:37
stgraber[TOPIC] PerPackageUploader Applications19:38
MootBotNew Topic:  PerPackageUploader Applications19:38
cody-somervillemaybe we should just lift the ban and see what happens?19:38
gesercody-somerville: I'm pretty sure ScottK will object to that idea19:38
stgrabermtaylor: around ?19:38
bdrunglift the ban for X month and evaluate it then?19:38
persiacody-somerville, No. That's outside our role.  We just have to determine whether he met the criteria.19:38
mtaylorstgraber: yup19:38
persiaAnyway, we're on a new topic19:38
stgrabermtaylor: According to the wiki you apply for PPU rights for haildb and pandora-build19:39
mtaylorstgraber: yes indeed19:39
stgraberthough you already seem to have upload rights on pandora-build19:39
stgraberand haildb doesn't seem to be in the archive ?19:39
mtaylorstgraber: oh really? great on pandora-build ... haildb should have just been synced19:39
stgraberstgraber@castiana:~/data/code/ubuntu-archive-tools$ python edit_acl.py query -p mordred | grep pandora-build19:40
stgraberArchive Upload Rights for mordred: archive 'primary', source package 'pandora-build'19:40
mtaylorexcellent. that makes that easier19:40
geserdoes someone remember if we vote on this apps the last time? (and this is just to setup the permissions)19:40
stgrabergeser: based on what I can find on the wiki, he already had PPU rights on a few packages and wants it extended to these two other packages19:40
MootBotLINK received:  http://pastebin.com/85cZ75Fe19:41
bdrungi though he wants upload right for all apps listed in his application.19:42
stgraberbdrung: he already has, for all of thems except haildb (which is probably in the NEW queue at the moment)19:42
geserthe results of his last application19:42
mtaylorsorry for the confusion - it's an ammended application - last time haildb wasn't in the archive yet. (and I thought the same for pandora-build, but I'm obviously wrong about that)19:43
persiahaildb was source-NEWed, but no binaries are yet available.19:43
bdrung? https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/haildb/2.3.1-119:43
gesermtaylor: have you DM upload rights for haildb in Debian or upload through a sponsor?19:44
mtaylorgeser: upload through a sponsor19:45
mtaylorbeen meaning to apply for DM for it19:45
stgraberI see that libhaildb was already part of the previous application and from what I can see is the binary package built from haildb. I guess we didn't vote on this one last time because it didn't exist in the archive and so we wouldn't have been able to set the PPU for it19:45
cjwatsonargh, sorry, I had timezone confusion19:46
geserwasn't it more of not enough records on working on this package?19:46
stgrabergeser: I'd be surprised considering he's the one listed in every single changelog entry in the debian changelog19:48
stgrabergeser: http://packages.debian.org/changelogs/pool/main/h/haildb/current/changelog.txt19:48
geserwhich are all after June when we processed the application19:48
cjwatsonhaildb sounds like an easy one to add to mtaylor's list to me, considering19:49
stgrabergeser: ok, so the package wasn't even in Debian at the time ?19:49
geserstgraber: no, looks it got NEWed in Debian 5 days ago19:50
stgraberok, any other question or should we just go ahead and vote to add haildb to mtaylor's PPU list ?19:51
bdrunggo ahead19:51
* geser has no questions19:51
stgraber[VOTE] Add haildb to mtaylor's PPU list19:52
MootBotPlease vote on:  Add haildb to mtaylor's PPU list.19:52
MootBotPublic votes can be registered by saying +1/-1/+0 in the channel, private votes by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0  to MootBot19:52
MootBotE.g. /msg MootBot +1 #ubuntu-meeting19:52
MootBot+1 received from stgraber. 1 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 119:52
MootBot+1 received from bdrung. 2 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 219:52
MootBot+1 received from geser. 3 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 319:52
MootBot+1 received from persia. 4 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 419:52
MootBot+1 received from cjwatson. 5 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 519:52
cjwatson(guess what keyboard I'm using)19:52
MootBot+1 received from cody-somerville. 6 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 619:53
MootBotFinal result is 6 for, 0 against. 0 abstained. Total: 619:53
bdrungcjwatson: it's not the NEO layout ;)19:53
stgrabercjwatson: should I give you the action of actually doing the change ?19:53
mtaylorthanks all!19:53
stgraber[ACTION] cjwatson to add haildb to mtaylor's PPU list19:54
MootBotACTION received:  cjwatson to add haildb to mtaylor's PPU list19:54
stgraber[TOPIC] MOTU Applications19:54
MootBotNew Topic:  MOTU Applications19:54
stgrabermicahg: around ?19:54
micahgstgraber: yes19:54
stgraberhmm, only 6 minutes left ... is there any meeting schedule in #ubuntu-meeting after DMB ?19:55
bdrungno (according to the fridge)19:56
* ajmitch wouldn't think it'd take more than 6 minutes to approve micahg 19:56
gesernothing on the fridge (not even the current DMB meeting)19:56
persiamicahg, You say you don't like "The ability to easy switch between archive versions and PPA versions of select packages.", but you don't list any thoughts about fixing that.  Are you able to do so here?19:56
micahgpersia: I was thinking of some type of selector in software center (a plugin that helped with pinning)19:56
persiaSo, is the problem that you can switch, or is the problem that it's not easy?19:57
bdrungmicahg: is pinning enough? switching means to have a way for downgrading.19:57
ari-tczewmicahg is building his career by reporting on another folks from IRC rofl19:57
micahgpersia: that's it's not easy to switch back and forth19:58
bdrungmicahg: are you aware of ppa-purge?19:58
cjwatsonthere's a command-line tool to do it, I think, which suggests that building UI pieces might not be so far off19:58
micahgbdrung: in some cases yes, but not all19:58
micahgbdrung: yes19:58
cjwatsonI think ppa-purge is PPA granularity rather than package granularity though19:58
micahgcjwatson: right19:59
cjwatsonmvo might have some thoughts on the UI side19:59
persiamicahg, A package selector UI seems easy enough: how could one address the bit about maintainer scripts not being guaranteed safe for downgrades?19:59
micahgpersia: well, there would have to be some way for a package to opt-in to this only in cases where it would be safe20:00
micahgpossibly a field in d/control?20:01
persiaPackages in PPAs declaring that they are suitable for safe install/remove?  How can we trust that when we can't necessarily trust PPA uploaders in general?20:01
bdrungisn't it better to make packages downgradable?20:01
persiabdrung, Heh, sure, but that's *hard*, because of how maintainer scripts work.20:02
cjwatsonOTOH it's relatively rare for the sorts of changes in PPAs to be downgrade issues anyway20:02
micahgpersia: that's a more general problem and would have to do with the concept of *blessed* PPAs which seems to be less likely as time goes on20:02
cjwatsonpersia: if you can't trust the PPA then it might have failed when you switched *to* it20:02
bdrungmaybe having a fallback if the downgrade doesn't work?20:02
persiacjwatson, Ah, that works.20:02
cjwatsonso worrying about what happens when you switch away sort of seems like stable door and hose20:02
* persia has no more questions.20:03
bdrungmicahg: interested in working on the sponsors queue?20:03
* ScottK wants to be sure to through in a big +1 for micahg (my attention is needed elsewhere ATM) - I've interacted with him quite a bit at UDS and since and am convinced he'd be a great MOTU.20:04
micahgbdrung: yes, but my time for the next month is limited20:04
stgraberready to vote ?20:04
gesermicahg: why didn't you manage to find enough DMB members a UDS-M to process your application? :)20:05
cjwatsonthat was mostly our fault20:05
stgraber[VOTE] Micah Gersten's application for MOTU20:05
MootBotPlease vote on:  Micah Gersten's application for MOTU.20:05
MootBotPublic votes can be registered by saying +1/-1/+0 in the channel, private votes by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0  to MootBot20:05
MootBotE.g. /msg MootBot +1 #ubuntu-meeting20:05
MootBot+1 received from bdrung. 1 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 120:05
cjwatsonwe did assemble but were inquorate20:05
persiaEntirely our fault20:05
MootBot+1 received from persia. 2 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 220:05
MootBot+1 received from cjwatson. 3 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 320:05
MootBot+1 received from stgraber. 4 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 420:05
MootBot+1 received from geser. 5 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 520:05
stgraberpersia, cjwatson and I were in ready for the meeting at UDS, though soren was somewhere between his hotel and UDS and cody-somerville was probably still sleeping :)20:06
ari-tczewI don't trust that he will work on clean up sponsors queue20:06
stgrabercody-somerville: ?20:06
MootBot+1 received from cody-somerville. 6 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 620:06
MootBotFinal result is 6 for, 0 against. 0 abstained. Total: 620:06
stgraber[TOPIC] Select a chair for the next meeting20:06
MootBotNew Topic:  Select a chair for the next meeting20:06
highvoltagewelcome to MOTU, micahg!20:06
stgraberany volunteer ?20:07
bdrungcongrats micahg20:07
stgraberoh, and congrats micahg !20:07
micahghighvoltage: thanks, and thanks to all the DMB members and ScottK20:07
persiaI'll volunteer.  I've missed it enough times.20:07
stgraber[ACTION] persia to chair next DMB meeting20:07
MootBotACTION received:  persia to chair next DMB meeting20:07
stgraberanything else for this meeting ?20:07
bdrungcan the chair listed on the agenda?20:07
cjwatsonnormally is20:08
* micahg is just curious, are the meetings planned to be 1hr now?20:08
persiaThey were always supposed to be so.20:08
stgraberbdrung: when we've got one, it usually is20:08
cjwatson1hr is usual if we can manage it, but it depends ...20:08
gesermicahg: they we always 1 hour20:08
micahggeser: ah, ok20:09
cjwatsonsometimes they run long if there's need and if there's nothing preventing it20:09
gesermicahg: if we finish in 1 hour is a different question :)20:09
bdrungback to the Marco: can we get comments from all people who are working with Marco?20:10
* bdrung fails in forming correct sentences.20:10
stgraberok, I guess we're done for what had to be discussed in this meeting20:12
MootBotMeeting finished at 14:12.20:12
cjwatsonre Marco, I think the action to work with the CC is the next step there - we can ask them to help with that20:12
cjwatsonand, since I wasn't here at the start, welcome bdrung :)20:14
stgraberbdrung: I'd also suggest you read through the previous meeting logs as it feels like things we already discussed in the past. For now, I think it's best to wait for the CC and re-discuss in another meeting.20:14
geserbdrung: the aren't probably many as he is banned from working on Ubuntu dev, you would need to find those who are also active in Debian and see his work there20:14
* cjwatson goes back to trying to convince a toddler to GO TO BED20:15
bdrungthanks cjwatson20:15
ari-tczewI'm not up-to-dated... who win - Laney or bdrung ?20:15
ari-tczewlove it!20:15
ari-tczew(that was not ironic)20:15
cjwatsonby 8 votes or so I think20:15
ari-tczewwhat is the number of all votes?20:15
cjwatsonlow turnout, not that I'm one to talk since I forgot to vote :(20:16
geserari-tczew: see my mail with the results to ubuntu-devel-announce20:16
bdrungthe participation was very low (~ 50 votes)20:16
gesercjwatson: I wanted to mail a reminder after UDS but forgot it myself :( (to mail the reminder)20:16
geserIIRC 55 votes of 15320:17
bdrungstgraber: in which meetings was marco a topic? 2010-09-27 and others?20:21
geserbdrung: the last 2-3 meetings20:21
bdrunggeser: do we have a link list to all previous meeting logs?20:31
geserno, perhaps I should do one like we had for MC20:37
bdrunggeser: finding the old logs is hard. especially if the schedule is changed20:37
=== Craig_Dem_ is now known as Craig_Dem

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