[03:11] <tonyyarusso> k-rad: What can we do for you?
[03:12] <k-rad> it is in my opinion that the #ubuntu-offtopic channel sanctioned by ubuntu needs more active moderation in order for those with psychological impairment in there, leave negativity behind, and not give advice amongst community members that is total misinformation.  even MadPilot, an ubuntu op, get upset because i claimed i believed many of them needed psychological assistance.  there is something disrupting about two people watching the same movie and
[03:12] <k-rad>  going back and forth for hours on end, with the words, zombie, zombie, zombie being repeated over and over.  i believe in a spirit of peace and helping each other out, not carrying grudges over a statement i wholeheartedly stand by
[03:13] <tonyyarusso> Why yes, getting upset at you saying people need psychological assistance is perfectly reasonable.  And if you expected useful advice from a non-support channel, well...
[03:13] <tonyyarusso> So what exactly is the real problem?
[03:14] <k-rad> is it beyond the realm of possibility that despite them being upset, it being perfectly true ?
[03:14] <tonyyarusso> You are not qualified to make that judgement.
[03:15] <k-rad> i hold no credentials as a doctor, but i do believe i'm qualified enough to judge that the conversations that go on in there, is psychobabble
[03:15] <tonyyarusso> Then find a different channel that better suits what you're looking for.
[03:16] <tonyyarusso> Not to mention looking up "psychobabble".
[03:16] <k-rad> while i may not be qualified to certify that statement, i do believe it to be perfectly true
[03:17] <k-rad> the channel belongs to Ubuntu.  if your going to stand up and moderate it, why not make it a gathering place of fellowship
[03:17] <k-rad> instead of knee jerk reactions
[03:17] <IdleOne> k-rad: The thing is that in the spirit of Ubuntu it is not ok for you to say that someone needs psychological help because of a conversation about a movie, no matter how inane that conversation was.
[03:18] <k-rad> it wasn't just because of the dialog of the movie
[03:18] <tonyyarusso> From what I've heard / read so far, it seems like you're the one out of line with Ubuntu community guidelines.
[03:18] <maco> k-rad: you honestly don't think it's insulting in any way to criticise a person's mental condition?
[03:18] <k-rad> it is !o4o to suggest that people in a offtopic channel might need psychological assistance ?
[03:19] <k-rad> i would been more than happy to lead them to sanity.
[03:19] <maco> it's certainly quite *rude* -- and i think we have some guidelines about respectful
[03:19] <IdleOne> I agree that sometimes the conversation in offtopic is "off the wall" to say the least and if it was bothering you that much you could of ignored it, started a new topic, left the channel but insulting people is not acceptable
[03:19] <k-rad> i did not mention any nicks
[03:20] <k-rad> i made a statment which i believed to be entirely factual
[03:20] <IdleOne> ok so you addressed the entire channel
[03:20] <IdleOne> even less ok
[03:21] <IdleOne> Don't get me wrong I am not trying to defend the conversation about the movie. I saw it last night also but I ignored it and found something else to do.
[03:21] <k-rad> i had no idea, that i was not allowed to join this channel.  you should put it on key
[03:21] <maco> which channel?
[03:21] <k-rad> i see his point now
[03:22] <IdleOne> you are allowed to join this channel and speak your mind about something Ubuntu related.
[03:22] <IdleOne> nobody said you can't
[03:22] <k-rad> while i addressed the entire channel, i did not mean to say the entire channel needed psychological help, so that argument doesn't hold much weight
[03:22] <maco> and the channel *does* need more ops -- but for the borderline trolls it attracts, not because you find the conversation boring
[03:23] <IdleOne> you are the one who said you didn't mention names in defense of your statement
[03:23]  * tonyyarusso is convinced this doesn't warrant any further time expenditure at this juncture, goes back to reading.
[03:23] <k-rad> that would be correct.  to do so would be to engage in something back and forth which would have resulted in a war of some sort.
[03:24] <IdleOne> exactly. How long do you think it would of taken the two parties to take offense to the comment seeing how they were the only ones really talking at the time
[03:25] <k-rad> i had been in that channel for over the duration of the dialog between the two people watching that movie
[03:25] <IdleOne> anyway, the code of conduct says to be respectful at all times. Not just when everything is going great but especially when things you don't like or agree with are happening
[03:26] <IdleOne> So, the conversation about the movie was long and boring and at times maybe even crazy but that doesn't mean you can go around saying people are crazy.
[03:28] <k-rad> and suggesting psychological help is an insult or rather at attempt to get through to people that the inanity that goes on in that channel, not just last night, but there's all sorts of stuff all the time, it seems illogical to me, and thats what strikes the chord
[03:28] <k-rad> i never once said the word crazy
[03:28] <IdleOne> i was paraphrasing
[03:29] <k-rad> thank goodness #ubuntu-offtopic isn't an ubuntu product
[03:29] <k-rad> thank you for your time
[03:32] <k-rad> may i ask what todays offense was that i had done in #ubuntu-offtopic that got me banned ?
[03:33] <tonyyarusso> k-rad: You highlighted your own misdeeds by bringing them up again here.  You should have been banned at the time 20 hours ago.
[03:33] <tonyyarusso> Clearly the channel is a poor fit for you at this point in time.
[03:34] <k-rad> the misdeeds part of that statement is up for refutal.  i have been seeing mental health professionals at least once for the last 15 years.  i'm no doctor, and i certainly did not insult any particular individual
[03:35] <k-rad> at least once every month
[03:35] <k-rad> btw, did you ban aubade ?
[03:36] <IdleOne> k-rad: My mother has worked for OBGYN for 34 years that doesn't make her qualified in any way to diagnose anything medical related
[03:37] <k-rad> i'd say delivering babies is in no way related to the workings of the human mind
[03:37] <IdleOne> but when she does offer her opinion on any medical issue she does not insult the person she is talking to.
[03:37] <k-rad> would you grep the logs and find the exact insult
[03:37] <tonyyarusso> Wait, did we just devolve into a self-inflicted "it takes one to know one" argument?
[03:37] <IdleOne> yes
[03:37] <maco> tonyyarusso: yes
[03:38] <IdleOne> my yes was also to tonyyarusso
[03:38] <tonyyarusso> Wow, special.  Allrighty.
[03:38] <IdleOne> anyway, I got something I need to read.
[03:39] <k-rad> is anyone here calling my sanity in question ?
[03:39] <tonyyarusso> as do I.  Many, many things to read :(
[03:41] <maco> IdleOne: seriously? that dude just went "watch me break the rules so they have the bot scold me"???
[03:41] <IdleOne> I didn't see that
[03:42] <IdleOne> oh he did
[03:42] <IdleOne> well it's up to you if you want to remove him for it but now he has been warned and if he does it again...
[03:44] <IdleOne> k-rad: Please see the topic
[04:34] <k-rad> correction, that would be at least once a month the past 22 years.
[07:58] <Flannel> ikonia: Kindly fix your ISP
[08:13] <Tm_T> Flannel: you mean his connection? fixing ISP is bit too much (:
[08:47] <Tm_T> tsimpson: jussi: "So if you’re active on our IRC channels and you are available in the specified times (or at least part of them)" ...which specified times?
[09:07] <topyli> tm_T: hrm. i don't think we have a timezone-specific wishlist this time. that must be a leftover from an old blurb
[09:08] <jussi> Tm_T: , topyli is correct. it was an accidental leave in by tsimpson.
[09:09] <topyli> copy/paste magic
[09:10] <Tm_T> right, maybe worth mentioning (:
[09:10] <Tm_T> hmm, bantracker insist keeping the nocturnus forward
[09:11] <Tm_T> this seems to be enough to stop the loop
[09:11] <Tm_T> ...or not
[09:12] <jussi> hrm?
[09:13] <jpds> Tm_T: I think he was just taking evasive maneuvers.
[09:14] <jussi> mind, here it doesnt really matter to me. in purely practical terms, its not hurting any productivity here - at least not at the moment. in #ubuntu however, might be worth a thought.
[09:14] <Tm_T> jussi: I know, that's why I'm not making any bans, just testing if that's enough if timed well
[09:15] <jussi> Tm_T: fair enough :)
[09:15] <Tm_T> sometimes remove done in the right moment is enough, but I don't know yet what it is
[09:16] <knome> no
[09:16] <knome> :P
[09:16] <Tm_T> awww
[09:17] <Tm_T> I have never understood these in-out-in-out routines anyway
[09:24] <topyli> i'm correcting the ops call
[09:24] <Tm_T> thanks (:
[09:30] <topyli> tm_T: thanks for pointing it out. good to know that some people actually read those announcements properly! :)
[09:31] <Tm_T> np, I only skimmed it through at first but as I didn't find any mention about timezone, I had to comb it couple times to make sure I didn't miss anything
[09:50] <ikonia> looks like my connection has been terrible recently
[09:50] <ikonia> apologies
[09:52] <Tm_T> np (:
[13:20] <ikonia> howdy Hobbsee
[13:20]  * Hobbsee waves
[17:49] <jussi> any ops who are also members about =?
[17:50] <jpds> Oh hi.
[17:50] <IdleOne> jussi: mahen23 needs a ban from -ot. he has been talked to by topyli about his attitude and general no respect for !guidelines before
[17:51] <jussi> jpds: could you pastebin the contents of the LP email you got when you were added to the irc members team?
[17:52] <jpds> jussi: http://spooky.ubuntuwire.com/~jpds/irc.txt
[17:52] <jussi> sigh...
[17:52] <lhavelund> IdleOne: needs a ban?
[17:53] <IdleOne> yes
[17:53] <jussi> jpds: launchpad is very annoying. thanks
[17:53] <IdleOne> imo he does
[17:53] <lhavelund> IdleOne: I trust your judgment on that
[17:53] <IdleOne> thank you.
[17:55] <IdleOne> joins the channel and posts a 2 month old TPB link then starts up with women not being good at coding. less then 36 hours ago topyli had a talk with him about the guidelines and CoC.
[17:55] <jussi> heh, that looked like you banned doyle
[18:55] <Seeker`> I would like to reiterate my request to have my access removed in #ubuntu and #ubuntu-offtopic.
[18:59] <jussi> Seeker`: I was under the impression you could do it yourself, however I havent confirmed it. that said:
[18:59] <jussi> [20:58:20] [ChanServ] Flags -votiA were set on Seeker in #ubuntu.
[18:59] <jussi> [20:58:35] [ChanServ] Flags -votiA were set on Seeker in #ubuntu-offtopic.
[19:23] <Seeker`> jussi: thanks. I'll leave here now.
[19:49] <Tm_T> hmmm
[22:39] <nhandler> I'm doing some work on the freenode faq and other website pages. I was wondering if there were any common questions you find yourselves answering all of the time that could do with a nice entry in the faq that you could then link people to
[22:46] <tonyyarusso> nhandler: Yes, "Why the hell is the group registration process still so horribly broken?  Hasn't it been like six years?"  ;)
[22:47] <nhandler> tonyyarusso: It isn't broken, just slow. If people would volunteer to work on the GMS, the problem would go away.
[22:48] <tonyyarusso> nhandler: Uh huh.  Maybe they should have written it in a language that people still program in.
[22:48] <Pici> "Why is the GMS written in perl/php/fortran and not python?"
[22:48] <nhandler> But that might be worth including
[22:49] <Pici> nhandler: But seriously, perhaps something about +r or +b ~a
[22:49] <nhandler> Pici: The extbans are mentioned on using_the_network, does it need more information?
[22:49] <Pici> nhandler: I mean information for users who can't talk in a channel that they've never been in.
[22:50] <Pici> Or similar.
[22:50] <tonyyarusso> I love how staff's answer is always "but things will be great once we finish this vaporware!" instead of "oh hey, maybe we should deal with the current problem instead of just pointing to some pie-in-the-sky eventual someday solution".
[22:51] <nhandler> Pici: Good idea. Just a generic 'Why can't I join/talk in #foo'.
[22:52] <Pici> nhandler: Something like that.
[22:52] <Pici> I'm thinking of questions I see in #freenode often.
[22:54] <nhandler> Pici: Yep. Those are the types of things I want to add ;)
[23:39] <Pici> Hiya
[23:40] <zkriesse> Hallo, have a question re: that email sent out for needed ops in #ubuntu-offtopic
[23:40] <Pici> Ask away
[23:40] <zkriesse> Can I apply to such a thing?
[23:41] <zkriesse> I've got much experience in the #ubuntu channels, and I op a few channels of my own that are ubuntu teams
[23:41] <zkriesse> #ubuntu-youth is one
[23:42] <zkriesse> I know i'm not SUPER active in #ubuntu like i should be but i'm not in-active
[23:42] <Pici> Sure, you can apply.
[23:43] <zkriesse> Do i send in an email somewhere? Of just put testimonials for such an endeavor somewhere on my wiki page
[23:43] <Pici> You can apply to the launchpad team(s).  Let me grab a link.
[23:43] <zkriesse> K
[23:43] <zkriesse> I seem to have lost the email darn it
[23:45] <Pici> https://launchpad.net/~irc-ubuntu-offtopic-ops and https://launchpad.net/~irc-ubuntu-ops and the mail to the list is here: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-irc/2010-November/001129.html
[23:46] <zkriesse> thanks very much!
[23:46] <Pici> You're welcome.
[23:46] <zkriesse> What are you looking for in the application? IRC experience and such?
[23:47] <Pici> zkriesse: Not necessarily, you'll need to be somewhat familiar with IRC, but the rest we can help with.  The email actually has a good set of bullet points for what we expect to see.
[23:48] <zkriesse> Ok,
[23:48] <zkriesse> I'm not on the mailing list for that email apparently...there's an archive somewhere correct?
[23:48] <Pici> zkriesse: The third link I provided above.
[23:48] <zkriesse> thank thee
[23:48]  * zkriesse facepalms
[23:49] <Pici> :)
[23:50] <zkriesse> Ok! thanks!
[23:50]  * zkriesse goes to write up his application