[01:14] <bbordwell> hello, I hate to progress my own bugs so could someone make sure this bug is reproducible? it should only take a few seconds: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/indicator-sound/+bug/671948
[01:14] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 671948 in indicator-sound (Ubuntu) "Indicator-sound closes rhytmbox if opened soon after closing (affects: 1) (heat: 6)" [Undecided,New]
[10:21] <RedSingularity> Does update-manager have an apport-hook?
[10:22] <RedSingularity> micahg:  ^^^ ?
[10:32] <yofel> RedSingularity: from what I see - no
[10:32] <RedSingularity> yofel:  where did you go to look?
[10:32] <jibel> RedSingularity, I confirm it doesn't have one.
[10:33] <yofel> RedSingularity: /usr/share/apport/package-hooks/ (if you have it installed), and I checked the source package
[10:36] <RedSingularity> yofel,jibel:  Thanks
[10:37] <yofel> no problem
[11:28] <cjae> can someone please find a solution to logitech mx5500 kb and mouse combos, as bluez and bluetooth monolithic progress in kubuntu the support get worse
[11:28] <cjae> 64 bit
[11:32] <cjae> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/bluedevil/+bug/650603
[11:32] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 650603 in bluedevil (Ubuntu) "bluedevil does not recognize my bluetooth dongle at all mx 5500 kb and mouse (affects: 1) (heat: 96)" [Undecided,New]
[14:10] <bcurtiswx_> hggdh, ping
[14:33] <bcurtiswx_> hggdh, at the meeting, I won't be able to attend (seminar at that time).  When it comes time for mentor reports will you let them know I need my current two removed from program due to no response of emails and I can be assigned a couple more?
[14:40] <hggdh> bcurtiswx_: will do, thanks for the heads up
[14:41] <bcurtiswx_> hggdh, much appreciated
[14:46] <charlie-tca> nightmare coming: http://blog.launchpad.net/general/launchpad-bug-jam-december-2010
[14:46] <charlie-tca> Why do people think  bugs "must" be closed?
[14:48] <BUGabundo> cause they get in the way of work
[14:48] <BUGabundo> at least for me
[14:49] <BUGabundo> at work, seeing an empty queue is better
[14:50] <charlie-tca> So, of the hundreds/thousands of bugs you have filed, can we close all of them?
[15:13] <pedro_> kamusin, hey! great work on the bug day :-)
[15:14] <kamusin> :) heh
[15:15] <jcastro> hey pedro_
[15:15] <jcastro> you get my mail about a unity section for status.qa.ubuntu.com?
[15:16] <pedro_> jcastro, hey!, yes i got it, but bdmurray has the rights to add stuffs there
[15:16] <jcastro> ok
[15:16] <jcastro> I will go after him then!
[15:16] <jcastro> pedro_: will you be doing unity triaging this cycle?
[15:17] <pedro_> jcastro, he's probably already looking at it ;-)
[15:17] <pedro_> jcastro, yeah i'll be helping didrocks and the guys with that
[15:17] <jcastro> ok
[15:17] <pedro_> we already discussed some bits on UDS
[15:17] <pedro_> workflow etc
[15:17] <jcastro> nice
[15:17] <jcastro> hey so, I just need to make sure you guys are feeding me bitesize ones
[15:17] <jcastro> so just tag em as you see them
[15:17] <pedro_> will do it
[16:24] <bdmurray> jcastro: so what packages exactly?
[16:25] <jcastro> bdmurray: a bunch, I take it you need a list?
[16:25] <bdmurray> jcastro: yeah
[16:25] <jcastro> on it
[16:25] <bdmurray> jcastro: cool, thanks
[16:25] <micahg> is the meeting at 17:00?
[16:29] <jcastro> bdmurray: source packages or binary?
[16:30] <bdmurray> jcastro: source because that is what launchpad uses
[16:33] <jcastro> bdmurray: http://paste.ubuntu.com/528773/
[16:33] <charlie-tca> micahg: as far as I know
[16:37] <jcastro> bdmurray: we'll have to adjust it a little bit when the compiz stuff lands but that should be good for now
[16:37] <jcastro> bdmurray: also, do you have the ability to graph specific tags in bugs?
[16:37] <jcastro> I'd like to keep track of "bitesize" ones in unity
[16:40] <bdmurray> jcastro: I'll have to look at tags for a specific package
[16:41] <jcastro> bdmurray: is that hard/alot of work?
[16:41] <jcastro> ideally if the bug line could also show which ones of those are bitesize that would rock
[16:59] <yofel_> o/
[17:00] <pedro_> hey hey , do we have a meeting now?
[17:01] <hggdh> yes, we should (I think)
[17:01] <yofel> ping hggdh
[17:01] <yofel> ah :)
[17:01] <hggdh> er
[17:01] <hggdh> am I the leader today?
[17:01] <hggdh> :-)
[17:01] <yofel> the wiki says you are
[17:01] <hggdh> oh
[17:01] <pedro_> hggdh, looks like it :-P
[17:02] <pedro_> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BugSquad/Meeting <- Agenda
[17:02] <hggdh> #startmeeting
[17:02] <meetingology> Meeting started Tue Nov  9 17:02:51 2010 UTC.  The chair is hggdh. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/AlanBell.
[17:02] <meetingology> Useful Commands: #topic #action #link #idea #voters #vote #chair #action #agreed #help #info #endmeeting.
[17:03] <hggdh> OK. Here we go, sorry for the delay
[17:03] <hggdh> topics as as shown here:
[17:03] <hggdh> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BugSquad/Meeting
[17:03] <hggdh> so
[17:03] <yofel> btw, who manages the dates for the weekly newsletter? #217 said our meeting is at 18:00UTC
[17:04] <hggdh> the following actions were set last meeting:
[17:04] <hggdh> #
[17:04] <hggdh>     * Bug Day to be created for regression-potential tags
[17:04] <hggdh>     * bdmurray to remove regression-potential as an official bug tag for Ubuntu
[17:04] <hggdh>     * hggdh to prepare a bug day excepting kernel
[17:04] <hggdh>     * hggdh to clean up the Regression wiki pages
[17:04] <hggdh>     * nigelb to edit bugsquad headers to be similar or link to each other appropriately
[17:04] <hggdh>     *
[17:04] <hggdh>       devildante to split HowToTriage page up into a simple page and an advanced page
[17:04] <hggdh>     * devildante to start e-mail thread in mailing list about translations of bug reports
[17:05] <hggdh> of those, the first four were done
[17:05] <hggdh> nigelb: there?
[17:06] <hggdh> devildante is MIA right now...
[17:06] <hggdh> so I will mark these actions as pending, and re-activate for next meeting
[17:06] <hggdh> [ACTION] nigelb to edit bugsquad headers to be similar or link to each other appropriately
[17:06] <meetingology> ACTION: nigelb to edit bugsquad headers to be similar or link to each other appropriately
[17:07] <hggdh> [ACTION] devildante to split HowToTriage page up into a simple page and an advanced page
[17:07] <meetingology> ACTION: devildante to split HowToTriage page up into a simple page and an advanced page
[17:08] <hggdh> devildante *did* start a thread on the ML, and we discussed translations more during UDS
[17:08] <hggdh> pedro_: do you have a summary of what was decided in UDS?
[17:08] <pedro_> hggdh, yeah
[17:08] <pedro_> that's blueprint https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/ubuntutheproject-qa-n-handling-nonenglish-bugs
[17:09] <pedro_> we agreed that the best place where to handle such reports is the answer tracker
[17:09] <hggdh> at least for now, yes (now I remember ;-)
[17:09] <pedro_> so they can ask the questions in their native language there, then it can be translated and converted into a bug report
[17:10] <hggdh> all: any comments on that?
[17:10] <pedro_> there's a couple of work items :
[17:10] <pedro_> [brian-murray] Recommend that people ask a question in their native language in Answers (best stop-gap move): TODO
[17:10] <pedro_> [brian-murray] Modify Luanchpad to allow one to specify the language when converting a bug into a question: TODO
[17:11] <pedro_> so the detail to fix is to have the option in the "convert to question" to specify the language
[17:11] <pedro_> because right now you have to convert the question and then go to the question on the answer tracker and change the language
[17:11] <kklimonda> hggdh: so the workflow is "foreign bug is reported -> we convert it into a question -> it gets translated and reported again" ?
[17:11] <hggdh> kklimonda: the ideal would be for them to start in the answer tracker
[17:12] <kklimonda> or the original report is just re-opened?
[17:12] <charlie-tca> sorry, seem to be late again
[17:12] <pedro_> kklimonda, for already filed reports and if it's a bug, yes
[17:12] <yofel> is it currently possible to change the language of a question?
[17:12] <bdmurray> kklimonda: reopened once complete in english
[17:12] <bdmurray> yofel: yes
[17:12] <pedro_> yofel, yeah, but only in the answer tracker
[17:13] <hggdh> LP dev is considering localisation, but it will take a time (lots to do)
[17:13] <yofel> that's what I wanted to know, thanks. So I'm fine with converting those to questions if we can set the proper language afterwards
[17:14] <kklimonda> I think it makes sense - it definitely beats alternatives.
[17:14] <bdmurray> yofel: I'm looking at setting the proper language during conversion.
[17:14] <yofel> bdmurray: that would be nice indeed, thanks
[17:14] <pedro_> and that' would be a *neat* feature
[17:15] <hggdh> we still will need to communicate this, when the infrastructure is in place
[17:15] <micahg> convert to question is still broken AFAIK, but it's at the top of the LP Bugs work list
[17:15] <bdmurray> micahg: when you say broken do you mean times out?
[17:15] <micahg> yes
[17:15] <pedro_> micahg, it sort of works here, the first time i get a time out, but if you click back and then convert again it works
[17:16] <pedro_> odd but that's the only way i can convert a bug to a question right now
[17:16] <hggdh> pedro_: happens on edge only?
[17:16] <bdmurray> incidentally there is not an edge anymore really
[17:16] <pedro_> hggdh, just tried on edge
[17:17] <micahg> total time is around 100 seconds for convert to question hence the failure
[17:17] <pedro_> ok so it might be the same on the normal lp, haven't tried though
[17:17] <micahg> progress can be tracked in bug 438116
[17:17] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 438116 in launchpad-foundations "Timeout when converting bug into question (BugTask:+create-question) (affects: 6) (dups: 3) (heat: 50)" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/438116
[17:17] <pedro_> thanks micahg
[17:18] <hggdh> subscribed, thank you micahg
[17:18] <hggdh> any other comments on this?
[17:18] <hggdh> so...
[17:18] <hggdh> [TOPIC] Mentorship program update from Mentors
[17:18] <meetingology> TOPIC: Mentorship program update from Mentors
[17:19] <hggdh> from me:
[17:19] <hggdh> ojap pings me once per week
[17:19] <hggdh> from bcurtiswx_ (asked me to relay this): no response from his two mentees, recommends dropping them
[17:20] <hggdh> (also from me: kangorooo asked for an extention and vanished again)
[17:20] <pedro_> again? wow
[17:20] <hggdh> other mentorship updates?
[17:20] <jibel> o/
[17:20] <pedro_> i only have 1 student now: elopio and he's busy with school at the moment so i might take a couple more
[17:20] <thekorn> yes, my two mentees vanished :(
[17:21] <hggdh> this is really not working :-(
[17:21] <thekorn> it seems I don't have luck with this mentorship program
[17:21] <pedro_> btw where's fish?
[17:21] <pedro_> i mean vish ;-)
[17:21] <hggdh> bish?
[17:21] <jibel> algnod, is there from time to time. online/offline/online/offline/...
[17:22] <hggdh> during UDS we had agreed on trying a different approach (creating LP teams with some mentors/mentees)
[17:22] <pedro_> jibel, is he/she working at all?
[17:22] <jibel> yes is active
[17:22] <pedro_> cool
[17:22] <jibel> s/is/he is/
[17:23] <pedro_> ;-)
[17:23] <hggdh> at least that -- one out of 5 so far...
[17:23] <pedro_> hggdh, indeed and that's a TODO task :-)
[17:23] <hggdh> pedro_: OK, cool
[17:23] <yofel> hggdh: right, as I couldn't make it to UDS, what exactly did you decide on there (about [sense] create a bugsquad-mentor-team-alpha in launchpad with a mailing list, have 2 to 3 members join the team and add mentees to that. Try it for 3 months and report back. Members - brian-murray, hggdh, vish, sense with 8 students: TODO)
[17:24] <hggdh> yofel: exactly that ;-)
[17:24] <charlie-tca> yup
[17:24] <charlie-tca> when will it happen?
[17:25] <hggdh> we will try this approach (exclusive mentorship is not working), and then see how it behaves
[17:25] <pedro_> yofel, the idea is to have a central place where students could ask to different mentors instead of having just one person to ask to
[17:25] <yofel> ok, so put severaly mentors and studends into a LP team and discuss things over the team ML?
[17:25] <bdmurray> yofel: yep,
[17:25] <yofel> ok, sounds useful
[17:25] <hggdh> yes. Plus IRC (I personally would require it)
[17:25] <pedro_> IRC is a requirement, yes
[17:26] <hggdh> yofel: the idea is to have one explanation hitting all the mentees in a group
[17:26] <yofel> good idea, agreed
[17:26] <bdmurray> well and to build a classroom type environment
[17:26] <hggdh> instead of repeating the same thing ad nauseum for each mentee
[17:26] <hggdh> yes
[17:27] <hggdh> hopefully this will spur exchange of ideas and doubts
[17:27] <hggdh> OK. Anything else on the mentorship?
[17:28] <hggdh> [TOPIC] Open Discussions
[17:28] <meetingology> TOPIC: Open Discussions
[17:28] <hggdh> yofel pointed out at the beginning that the newsletter still has theis meeting at 1800
[17:29] <pedro_> is that the UWN ?
[17:29] <yofel> yes
[17:29] <yofel> currently it says http://paste.ubuntu.com/528800/
[17:30] <yofel> taken from #217
[17:30] <pedro_> they are probably grabbing that from the fridge
[17:30] <pedro_> I'll contact the folks there to have that updated
[17:30] <yofel> thanks
[17:30] <pedro_> thanks for raising it yofel
[17:30] <yofel> yw
[17:31] <hggdh> anything else? Anyone? Huh?
[17:31] <pedro_> just a quick announcement
[17:32] <pedro_> remember we're having a bug day on Thursday 11!
[17:32]  * kamusin wohoo!
[17:32] <pedro_> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuBugDay/20101111
[17:32] <pedro_> kamusin and komputes are doing a *extraordinary* work
[17:32] <hggdh> oh, our old friend, bugs without a package
[17:32] <komputes> thanks
[17:33] <pedro_> kamusin komputes you guys are heroes :-)
[17:33] <hggdh> I would like to remind all that the Ubuntu Beginners Team would like to draw on our knowledge there
[17:34] <pedro_> and as always we're looking for new targets so if you have one, please add it to https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuBugDay/Planning
[17:34] <pedro_> oh good call hggdh :-)
[17:35] <hggdh> so -- having time, please drop by #ubuntu-beginners-team, and ask how you can help
[17:36] <yofel> joined, how exactly do they want to help us (or we help them) here?
[17:36] <charlie-tca> They would be willing to help teach triaging
[17:36] <hggdh> they also have (or are planning) a triger's class/group/effort. We should probably try to converge/standardise
[17:36] <hggdh> charlie-tca: heh. You beat me ;-)
[17:37]  * charlie-tca thought I was missing today
[17:37] <yofel> oh, nice to have some more help there, I'll idle around there then :P
[17:37] <hggdh> thanks yofel.
[17:37] <charlie-tca> I guess I will too
[17:38]  * charlie-tca got to report that xchat bug
[17:38] <hggdh> BTW -- one thing I noticed is new triagers somehow try to tackle kernel, sound, and X bugs first
[17:38] <charlie-tca> agreed
[17:39] <hggdh> how can we tell them this is Not A Good Idea (TM)?
[17:39] <charlie-tca> They are picking on the hardest bugs they can find to learn with.
[17:39] <yofel> well, I guess that's since those are usually at the top of the bugs stats lists with the most bug numbers - usually because they're so hard to do
[17:40] <hggdh> yes. But I always tell folks to start on something (1) simple (2) that they use... somehow I am not successful in passing this over
[17:40] <bdmurray> recommend that people pick software they like / use a lot
[17:41] <hggdh> and explicitly recommend they do not get kernel/sound/X?
[17:41] <yofel> make https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Bugs/EasyTasks a bit more useful as a recommendation point?
[17:42] <hggdh> nice...
[17:42] <charlie-tca> great!
[17:42] <hggdh> +1
[17:42] <charlie-tca> do we have any place in how to triage or helping with bugs that refers to that page?
[17:43] <yofel> that page currently just lurks around in the knowledge base without many knowing about It I guess
[17:43] <hggdh> charlie-tca: not to my knowledge
[17:43] <hggdh> it should be in, I guess
[17:44] <charlie-tca> Would be nice to see it where it will be used
[17:44] <yofel> wait, it's not even in the Knowledge base
[17:44]  * yofel wonders how he found that page in the first place...
[17:44] <charlie-tca> heh, one of those neat things you wander into
[17:44] <yofel> I'll add it there at least
[17:45] <pedro_> i've created that page for the UGBJ but i don't remember if i linked it to others...
[17:45] <pedro_> bad me
[17:45] <hggdh> LOL
[17:46] <hggdh> ok
[17:46] <yofel> btw. is there *any* convention what goes to 'Bugs/' and what to 'BugSquad/' on the wiki?
[17:46] <hggdh> any other comments?
[17:46] <charlie-tca> um, pretty much where ever it lands, I think
[17:48] <hggdh> there is an effort on consolidating/rewrting/cleaning-up our pages
[17:48] <bdmurray> team stuff should goto BugSquad and Bugs stuff is generic to bugs
[17:48] <charlie-tca> Perhaps both sections could be combined. That would cut out a lot of duplication, and make it easier to maintain
[17:48] <bdmurray> so really the majority of the stuff should be in Bugs
[17:49] <hggdh> ack
[17:49] <charlie-tca> If bugsquad is the team that works on bugs, why are they separate in the wiki?
[17:49] <yofel> k
[17:49] <hggdh> because you do not need to be in bugsquad to triage
[17:49] <bdmurray> charlie-tca: BugSquad stuff would be stuff like meetings, how to join etc
[17:50] <charlie-tca> okay
[17:50] <bdmurray> developers might read Bugs stuff and not be interested in the BugSquad
[17:50] <bdmurray> which is their loss ;-)
[17:50] <charlie-tca> and yet we make them bugcontrol?
[17:50] <hggdh> yes -- for *some* teams, not all
[17:51] <hggdh> like core-devs
[17:51] <SpamapS> I've always felt that bugsquad is the team charged with doing the obvious triage work so that devs can focus on the hard stuff.
[17:51] <yofel> well, they should read status, importance and other things, which is under bugs/ and doesn't have much to do with the team
[17:51] <micahg> hggdh: all ubuntu-devs are member of bug-control
[17:52] <hggdh> micahg: yes. But not *all* dev teams
[17:52] <charlie-tca> but that doesn't mean they read/know any of the procedures bug-control non-devs must follow
[17:52] <hggdh> the reasoning was (at the time, IIRC, bdmurray may correct me ;-) if they are already ubuntu-devs/core-devs, they *know* what to do
[17:53] <hggdh> and they are still expected to abide by the rules
[17:53] <bdmurray> and have signed the CoC etc...
[17:54] <hggdh> we do accept new teams for -control (but none have applied so far)
[17:55] <hggdh> but the teams must be moderated/restricted and CoC is a requirement
[17:55] <bdmurray> Are we good with this topic?
[17:55] <charlie-tca> sure
[17:55] <hggdh> I think so
[17:55] <hggdh> as such
[17:55] <hggdh> #endmeeting
[17:55] <meetingology> Meeting ended Tue Nov  9 17:55:48 2010 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/AlanBell . (v 0.1.4)
[17:55] <meetingology> Minutes:        http://mootbot.libertus.co.uk/ubuntu-bugs/2010/ubuntu-bugs.2010-11-09-17.02.moin.txt
[17:55] <hggdh> thank you all
[17:56]  * hggdh goes for the next meeting
[17:56] <charlie-tca> hggdh: Thanks for chairing
[17:56] <pedro_> thank you hggdh
[17:57] <kamusin> thanks
[17:57] <yofel> thanks
[18:01] <bdmurray> jcastro: what is nux? I can't seem to find it
[18:05] <jcastro> bdmurray: it's some library that will be there eventually
[18:06] <bdmurray> jcastro: ah okay
[18:07] <bdmurray> jcastro: and compiz-plugins-main will be an new package too?
[18:07] <jcastro> bdmurray: when it all lands I can double check each one, just getting them started would be best
[18:07] <jcastro> yeah, probably
[18:08] <bdmurray> jcastro: okay
[18:10] <jcastro> bdmurray: I suspect the bug numbers will all be skewed for the first week since they're rewriting the buggy parts but I figure it's best to get them going now
[18:27] <jcastro> bdmurray: out of curiosity do you just add packages to a list or is it there more to it than that?
[18:28] <bdmurray> jcastro: one list and then classify them by category in a different list
[18:29] <jcastro> ah
[18:29] <jcastro> and measuring the bitesize tag? Will that be a problem?
[18:30] <bdmurray> there would be some more work involved so I'll look at it later
[18:30]  * jcastro nods
[18:30] <jcastro> bdmurray: so basically, the bug people triaging unity bugs will determine if anything is bitesize, and then I'm going to start a drive around getting new contributors interested in bitesize bugs
[18:31] <jcastro> it'll likely be modelled in a gnome-love/papercut like manner
[18:31] <jcastro> so any way I can measure successes with bugs with those tags would help me out
[18:49] <flipefr> hi everyone
[18:49] <flipefr> can anybody take a look at the bug 670592
[18:49] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 670592 in compiz (Ubuntu) "compiz crashes when screensaver activates (affects: 1) (heat: 6)" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/670592
[18:50] <pedro_> flipefr, a backtrace is needed, could you ask the reporter to enable apport and submit a new report?
[18:51] <pedro_> flipefr, there's a stock response for that here: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Bugs/Responses#Missing%20a%20crash%20report%20or%20having%20a%20.crash%20attachment
[18:51] <flipefr> pedro_, ok
[18:52] <pedro_> btw , you can close the bug after asking for the new one
[18:52] <pedro_> thank you flipefr
[18:54] <flipefr> pedro_, how can i close the bug?
[18:54] <pedro_> flipefr, just set it to Invalid
[18:55] <pedro_> to bug is no use without a backtrace anyways
[18:55] <flipefr> ok
[18:55] <flipefr> done
[18:59] <yofel> does anyone mind if I rewrite that response a bit? the !gnome invocation instructions are just wrong
[19:00] <pedro_> yofel, feel free to edit it
[19:00]  * yofel gets to work
[19:00] <pedro_> but the wiki seems down to me now
[19:00] <yofel> I need to make a draft anyway first
[19:01] <pedro_> is working again
[19:03] <yofel> any xubuntu user here? can't you open a crash report in thunar with a double click?
[19:04]  * micahg uses Xubuntu
[19:04] <charlie-tca> let's see
[19:05] <charlie-tca> sure I can.
[19:05] <charlie-tca> in Xubuntu 10.04
[19:05] <micahg> yofel: if the crash is owned by the user, yes
[19:05] <yofel> charlie-tca, micahg: thanks
[19:05] <charlie-tca> that's correct
[19:06] <charlie-tca> if owned by root, it errors
[19:06] <yofel> same goes for gnome and kde