=== bjf is now known as bjf[afk] [03:57] TheMuso, how do I find the list of Ubuntu archive admins? [03:58] robert_ancell: Afaik there is a list on the wiki somewhere, I think under ArchiveAdministration. [03:58] robert_ancell: do you need all of them or just the ones on duty? [03:58] micahg, I just need someone to let gsettings-desktop-schemas out of the NEW queue [03:58] robert_ancell: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ArchiveAdministration#Archive days [03:59] robert_ancell: worse case, pitti will be around in a few hours [04:00] micahg, thanks [04:00] pitti, ^^^ can you give gsettings-desktop-schemas a kick please? === robert_ancell is now known as robert_ancell-af [06:51] Good morning [06:52] robert_ancell-af: sure, looking [06:58] robert_ancell-af: done === almaisan-away is now known as al-maisan [07:09] Riddell: oh, BTW, WIs from Kubuntu/Todo/Natty wiki: http://people.canonical.com/~pitti/workitems/natty/kubuntu-dev.html (per-milestone views also available) [07:13] robert_ancell-af: do you intend to have https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/packageselection-desktop-n-display-manager targetted to natty? If so, could you please draft it RSN? [07:17] erk [07:17] after today's dist-upgrade, my terminal themes are completely messed up [07:20] heya pitti [07:21] hey bryceh, how are you? [07:21] bryceh: Are you going to sleep at all today? :) [07:22] pitti, I'm ok... had a death in the family [07:22] bryceh: uuh, I'm sorry to hear that! [07:22] pitti, just as a reminder, I scheduled to take tues and wed off. national holiday thursday [07:23] bryceh: thanks for the heads-up [07:23] I may need to take friday off as well, depending on when the service for my sister is scheduled [07:23] and for a bit of good news, I've got wayland packaged! https://launchpad.net/~xorg-edgers/+archive/wayland/+packages [07:24] however something's not quite right with mesa... says insufficient opengl es 2 support when I run the compositor [07:27] (but I think I know why that is) === lan3y is now known as Laney [08:47] hello [08:47] lut seb128 [08:48] lut didrocks [09:00] bryceh, hey === robert_ancell-af is now known as robert_ancell [09:03] robert_ancell, hey [09:03] bonjour seb128 [09:03] pitti, guten tag! [09:03] seb128, good morning [09:03] robert_ancell, I just replied to your email [09:04] robert_ancell, we need a better way to communicate who is working on what now and next [09:04] seb128, yeah, I wrote that email because it felt like it was going like that [09:04] robert_ancell, I don't think we duplicated lot of work there but it's close enough and that's not going any better with extra team members [09:05] seb128, heya [09:06] bryceh, can you send me a cairo debdiff? [09:06] seb128, let's work out a process. I propose, we make versions track GNOME3, even if the packages are in the PPA and not natty, we write changes to the bzr branches, and make a maverick branch if we keep on a stable version [09:06] seb128, yes [09:06] bryceh, thanks [09:06] robert_ancell, that's a process to solve what? [09:07] seb128, so we can work out who's working on what [09:07] we rather need a whiteboard [09:07] versions is not enough [09:07] I'm working on gnome-panel 2.32 locally but version would not show that [09:07] didrocks is working on compiz 0.9 [09:07] rodrigo_ is working on g-s-d and g-c-c 2.91 [09:07] seb128, I think versions and bzr did a good job last cycle - wouldn't you put your changes in bzr as UNRELEASED? [09:08] well there is always a gap between when you start work and well you feel it's in a pushable state [09:08] seb128, sent [09:08] seb128, true, and in that case you can track it with a bug on LP that shows in versions [09:08] that way you can also write down problems etc [09:09] I was pondering using http://openetherpad.org/ [09:09] or a wiki [09:10] I personally like to use the issue tracker because it's already set up for tracking lots of tasks and you can subscribe to the ones you are interested in [09:10] well I don't deny that, I'm just wondering if we need a whiteboard as well [09:10] I've some things I'm thinking to do next [09:10] like dropping applets using bonobo from the default install [09:11] but it's not really one component [09:11] seb128, track that in the blueprint? [09:11] we should all be subscribed to that [09:11] it doesn't really fit the bzr or bug workflow [09:11] well an http://openetherpad.org/YgvS4TjbKm [09:12] for example would be nice [09:12] it's a real time editor gobby like [09:12] just an url to open [09:12] it shows who wrote what [09:12] we could dump comments, ideas on what to work for other people, etc [09:13] I don't think the real-time aspect is useful in this case, the most important feature we need is visibility and tracking. It's obviously better than the blueprint whiteboard for handling who wrote what [09:14] right, it's rather that edit is low cost [09:14] it doesn't email pitti or people tracking specs [09:14] so it's easier to dump a few though at the end of the day, like bugs worth investigation, random ideas of things we should do [09:14] I don't think it should replace what you described before [09:15] I'm ok as long as it's an unofficial record, i.e. any actions that come out of it should become bugs/blueprint items [09:15] ok, so let's say we do what you suggested before and add a pad for notes [09:15] agreed [09:15] 59 [09:15] the pad is really for dumping "would be nice if somebody wants to pick on that, or email the team about something" [09:16] I'll read that in the morning [09:16] robert_ancell, do you have 5 minutes ? [09:16] seb128, yup [09:16] to discuss GNOME 2.91 [09:16] ok great [09:16] so you want to track the new version? [09:16] I would rather like adding an extra column [09:17] I think versions would be more useful tracking the latest versions, and we should package them even if we don't put them into natty [09:17] ideally we would pick things we track on the 2.91 serie [09:17] the way we picked the things which stayed on old series before [09:17] opt in for upgrades [09:17] yeah, was also thinking of that. We need to refactor versions - it's becoming a bit of a monster :) [09:18] how are you for workload atm? [09:18] well we can use the same thing we use to pick up things stay on 2.30 [09:18] (I can do the versions stuff if you want) [09:18] workload ... no reply [09:18] seb128, :) [09:18] I've nothing urgent but if you count the GNOME3 spec enough to be busy for the next 2 cycles [09:19] thursday is an holiday there [09:19] and I'm taking friday off [09:19] I want to land the new gnome-panel today [09:19] starting to get ride of bonobo applets [09:19] uh huh. GNOME3 is feeling a "bit all or nothing" so I'm worried we might end up bringing everything with it even if we don't want to [09:19] and the gnome-desktop on gtk3 [09:19] [09:20] ok that was my next topic [09:20] how is that the case? [09:20] it's that if you take g-s-d [09:20] which is why I suggested we would start easy [09:20] taking standalone applications rather [09:20] well, take eog. If you take it to GTK3, then the plugins need to be GTK3, and the Python bindings need to be GTK3 [09:20] using eog or gedit or gcalctool should not force our hands [09:21] what bindings? the new version should use gi? and the plugins are part of the same source or there is an extra source [09:21] The applications have been getting more integrated over time. We might find we have to patch a few things [09:21] it just force you to update the eog stack, 2 sources [09:21] well we should review things we upgrade for depends on system components [09:22] like eog or gcalctool should be self restricted [09:22] should be :) [09:22] It's just my gut instinct. But you know I'm never against moving forwards [09:22] I think I'm rather on the careful side compared to other people there [09:22] I agree! [09:22] but I don't foresee real issues with eog or gcalctool for example [09:23] I would be happy to be educated on what you considered risky [09:23] I might revisit my position ;-) [09:23] you don't know what features I have planned for 6.0... [09:23] I think there might just be lots of little problems which can add up to a big time sink [09:23] well which is why the plan was to pick a few applications [09:23] not to track 2.91 [09:24] but I don't think we'll know until nearer the alphas [09:24] just to exerce gtk3 [09:24] we can still downgrade the calculator if we need [09:24] true [09:24] I though about taking like 5 [09:24] doing the end of the year with only those [09:24] and revisit what to upgrade at the rally [09:25] we can work on extra ones in a ppa meanwhile [09:25] I think we should just push them all into the PPA, and migrate the ones that are working well into natty [09:25] we will just not bring things over for now [09:25] well, keep in mind that gtk3 is not abi or api stable yet [09:25] I don't want the ppa to turn into a time sink [09:26] which is why I didn't suggest we start tracking 2.91 even in a ppa [09:26] some parts of the stack are not there yet and we would waste lot of time by trying to get them in shape [09:26] ie nautilus [09:26] I treat it like a staging area [09:26] ok, so just upgrade things we think are worth trying now [09:26] ? [09:27] I'll modify versions so we can track both and then at least we know [09:27] ok thanks [09:27] atm I'm losing visibility into what we have up to date. I don't have your crazy memory for tracking all this in my head ;) [09:27] well, versions track what we are interested in [09:28] we want to be uptodate in the 2.32 serie [09:28] well versions just says "everything is out of date" atm [09:28] and we want to bring the gtk3 stack in [09:28] robert_ancell, http://people.canonical.com/~platform/desktop/versions.html [09:28] it doesn't? [09:29] It's got a few 2.91s in there [09:29] I don't know why [09:29] I need to investigate those [09:30] we still use vuntz's 2.32 list [09:30] I did ping him about a few of those [09:30] I guess he has been busy travelling [09:30] he's on the road for a month or so [09:31] ok, back to taking actions [09:31] you will update versions to track 2.32 and have an extra column 2.91? [09:31] yes [09:31] ok [09:31] ideally we need a way to say what serie we track by source [09:32] or rather list those which are tracking 2.91 [09:32] we probably need a way to have the same source twice [09:32] gtk2 and gtk3 [09:32] robert_ancell, what is your todo for the end of the week? [09:32] they are different packages [09:32] right... [09:32] keep updating stuff, also been looking at the nautilus elementary patches [09:33] thinking about next week updating main box to natty and getting unity working [09:33] we have all the base gnome stuff covered now, right? [09:34] arg [09:34] let me fwd you some emails [09:34] I thought you guys had all gone on holiday... [09:34] robert_ancell, why? [09:34] seb128, oh, if the email are about nautilus, jason forwarded them to me [09:35] robert_ancell, ok, so I fwd you 2 emails about elementary [09:35] ok [09:35] yeah, already got them [09:35] ok [09:35] been very quiet from this side of the world! [09:35] I should be better to keep you informed for those [09:35] feel free to cc [09:35] robert_ancell, isn't it always quiet? ;-) [09:35] * robert_ancell is a poet [09:35] will do [09:36] robert_ancell, ok, so tasks...want to update gtk to 2.23? [09:36] gtk2 [09:36] can do [09:36] ok, so add it to your list [09:36] robert_ancell, that and lpi gtk3 [09:36] I've been impressed with GTK3 so far [09:36] and libgnomekbd3, what is missing? [09:36] do you need review? [09:36] I've done libgnomekbd [09:37] ok, I didn't check, you just wrote in was work in progress in your email [09:37] can you push it to trunk then or maybe natty? [09:37] groan, not looking forward to doing lpi. I was wondering if we could get everything that uses it updated, but I don't think we can [09:37] robert_ancell, impressed how? do you find it much different from gtk2? [09:37] robert_ancell, no we can't, do you want me to ask mterry to do it? [09:37] robert_ancell, he did that for libindicat* already [09:38] I haven't pushed it because it has changed api - so everything that depends on it needs to be updated or it wont build - this is why I was saying you put one thing in and everything else gets dragged in [09:38] lpi, yeah give it to mterry [09:38] ok [09:38] GTK3 is nice in that it's got some good improvements, but I haven't seen any big problems with things migrating to it [09:38] robert_ancell, oh, and I guess only 2.9n applications are updated for the new api [09:39] yes [09:39] should we have another source then? [09:39] libgnomekbd building the gtk2 version and staying there [09:39] so, it's in the PPA, but I want to check carefully we don't paint ourselves into a corner. [09:39] libgnomekbd3 building the gtk3 version [09:39] it means we don't need to rebuild anyway [09:39] we just have the new lib there for those who need it [09:39] we should talk to Debian about that I guess - can you do that? [09:40] I can [09:40] vuntz suggested doing that for things that break abi [09:40] ok, let me know and I'll update the package if so [09:40] keep the old lib as it is [09:40] and build a new source for the gtk3 version [09:40] yup [09:40] it allow to transition over time [09:40] I will do that today [09:40] ok, I think that was it on my list [09:40] so versions update for you [09:40] gtk 2.23 [09:40] and clean a bit http://people.canonical.com/~platform/desktop/versions.html if you want [09:40] though we are mostly uptodate [09:41] morning [09:41] but feel free to pick in the gnome3 spec work items if you get bored [09:41] hey rodrigo_ [09:41] rodrigo_, hey [09:42] robert_ancell, you don't have an idea about bug #408417 btw? [09:42] Launchpad bug 408417 in gdm (Ubuntu Lucid) (and 3 other projects) "No option to log in remotely via XDMCP (affects: 223) (dups: 2) (heat: 1052)" [High,Won't fix] https://launchpad.net/bugs/408417 [09:42] I guess I will need to check that, users an unhappy [09:42] debian sent a patch upstream adressing some issues, it seems combined with building without ipv6 it works somewhat [09:42] (hate gdm) [09:42] seb128, I have been keeping an eye on it. The GDM XDMCP code is not pretty [09:42] robert_ancell, did you check on the debian fix? [09:43] hey robert_ancell, up late? [09:43] It's open in a tab in FF, haven't looked in detail [09:43] rodrigo_, I left early to go into town, but also so I can catch up with you guys :) [09:44] * seb128 is happy that robert_ancell was around [09:44] nice to catch up a bit every now and then ;-) [09:44] seb128, I'll have a look at the XDMCP stuff [09:44] robert_ancell, thanks [09:44] I have little faith in it though [09:44] I guess you are set for tomorrow with tasks [09:44] yeah, I go crazy without catching up now and then [09:44] yeah, too many hours difference, can't we move nz a bit more westwards? :) [09:44] How is unity going, does it work on natty? [09:45] robert_ancell, I can still drop you an email with some ideas for next tasks today if you want [09:45] rodrigo_, we need to move it around to track the sun [09:45] robert_ancell, unity in natty not yet, wait a bit [09:45] robert_ancell, :) [09:45] robert_ancell, didrocks is fighting compiz 0.9 for a week [09:45] he should land in the next days [09:45] seb128, I'm not looking for more work! Just finding out where the team is! [09:45] once compiz is there you can build unity easily [09:45] (fighting is the word!) [09:46] robert_ancell, ok, I was not sure if you needed a sense of what we need next [09:46] didrocks, feeling for you [09:46] seb128, robert_ancell: oh, btw, are we creating a ppa for apps? I should have g-s-d and g-c-c today probably [09:46] rodrigo_: thanks :) [09:46] robert_ancell, I've the feeling you will get crazy on GNOME 2.9n otherwise [09:46] ;-) [09:46] rodrigo_, did you start on those? [09:46] rodrigo_, oh, aren't we just putting them in gnome3-builds? [09:46] didrocks, you're welcome, but thanks for what? [09:46] robert_ancell: I'm at the final stage right now, just have to kill the boss and see the end :-) [09:46] didrocks, quad damage! [09:47] rodrigo_: bad completion as weechat autocomplete on the first name :) [09:47] seb128, yes, been fighting with librest and libsocialweb, and fixing some serious bugs upstream [09:47] rodrigo_: but thanks anyway :) [09:47] rodrigo_, ok, check your emails [09:47] didrocks, :D [09:47] rodrigo_, robert_ancell has been working on it as well, packaging libgnomekbd for gtk3 [09:47] robert_ancell, on g-c-c? [09:47] seb128, ok [09:48] rodrigo_, was aiming for g-c-c, but didn't get to it (lucky I checked in on what you guys are doing!) [09:48] robert_ancell, ok, libgnomekbd is ok, so keep on that, but leave g-s-d and g-c-c to me, please [09:48] rodrigo_, you will need to review the g-c-c patches I guess [09:49] seb128, I applied most of them upstream [09:49] g-c-c as well? [09:49] I followed only the g-s-d work [09:49] ah, g-c-c, is coming, yes [09:49] rodrigo_, np, there is some patch updates in lp:~robert-ancell/+junk/gnome-settings-daemon-gnome3 if you haven't done them yet [09:49] robert_ancell, was waiting for the new release, which I'll do today [09:50] robert_ancell, rodrigo got half the patches upstream this week [09:50] that will make our job easier [09:50] robert_ancell, but cool, I'll have a look at your branch [09:50] rodrigo_, yay for upstreaming! [09:51] yeah, specially because a lot of stuff has changed, so most of them won't apply [09:51] pitti, what do I set the blueprint status to again? pending approval? [09:52] robert_ancell: yes, once you are done with drafting [09:52] pitti, ta [09:53] so who is running natty on their main boxes? [09:53] o/ [09:53] pitti, heh, you got in early! [09:53] since UDS Friday :) [09:53] robert_ancell, me [09:55] I'm still using a VM :) [09:55] seb128, do you think I should push the murrine/light-themes changes to natty? They seem to be ok [09:56] yes [09:57] robert_ancell, I've a mixed natty [09:57] I added the natty source and apt-get install things I need or want over time [09:57] btw, if someone can review https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~rodrigo-moya/+junk/libsocialweb , not sure what I've done is good, looks like a hack to me [09:57] also opposed to adding remove libdbus-glib to the GNOME3 blueprint (as a maybe) [09:57] it gives me an updated desktop stack without taking xorg etc [09:58] robert_ancell, you are not the first one to ask, we should clarify, I think it's lot of work and little gain [09:58] robert_ancell, I didn't plan to set it as an active goals [09:58] seb128, as little gain as libglade etc [09:58] well libglade is doable [09:58] I don't see dbus-glib being done in one cycle [09:58] fair enough [09:59] we can list it as a "start cleaning dbus-glib" [09:59] I don't see packageselection-desktop-n-gnome3 being done in one cycle :) [09:59] well the workitems should be [09:59] we have been reasonable there [09:59] :) [10:00] well, that's why we add it as a maybe, and then defer all the maybes to next cycle [10:00] ok [10:00] feel free to add it [10:00] dx is switching their indicator stack to gdbus already [10:01] seb128, when I've tried porting stuff to it it doesn't seem as easy a glib-dbus (at least for acquiring a bus name) [10:02] yeah, it's a bit more 'complex' === rodrigo__ is now known as rodrigo_ [10:02] rodrigo_, I love your message in libsocialweb [10:02] robert_ancell, yeah, just saw I only did 1 commit :) [10:04] rodrigo_, oh, can you make the depends lists one package per line - it makes them easier to diff [10:04] robert_ancell, yes, sure [10:06] robert_ancell, pushed [10:06] rodrigo_, It's one of my crusades... [10:06] :) [10:09] robert_ancell, a noble crusade :-) [10:20] later all [10:20] pitti, hmm, what happened with the gsettings-desktop-schemas package? it seems there's still no ~ubuntu-desktop branch [10:20] bye robert_ancell [10:21] rodrigo_, It needed a new project registered in LP, I did that earlier today [10:21] robert_ancell, ah, ok [10:21] so it just needs to be pushed now [10:21] rodrigo_: bzr lp-open lp:ubuntu/gsettings-desktop-schemas [10:21] robert_ancell, rodrigo_: I thought we wanted to use the "native" package branch for this? [10:21] (created by the auto-importer) [10:21] pitti, ah, as you like [10:22] pitti, what does that do? does that make a new project automatically? [10:22] robert_ancell: it's not a project branch, it's a package branch [10:22] pitti, so LP knows about the package, but you don't need to make a project? [10:22] right [10:22] nice [10:22] ok, really going now, bye [10:23] ... bye [10:24] ah, cool, mterry rewrote the copyright file in DEP-5 [10:24] * rodrigo_ removes that from his TODO list [10:26] pitti, just for curiosity, why not a ~ubuntu-desktop branch for this one? [10:26] morning [10:26] rodrigo_: we still have a lot of those, but the general direction is to use lp:ubuntu/ branches with full source, and using bzr merge-upstream [10:26] ok [10:39] grrrrr @ gcc-4.5 [10:39] :( [10:39] hey chrisccoulson [10:39] what's up? [10:39] hi pitti - how are you? [10:39] pitti - the new toolchain is giving me lots of headaches [10:39] quite fine, thanks! seems I got along well with the jetlag this time [10:40] that's good, how was plumbers? [10:40] chrisccoulson: interesting in various ways (I'll expand in my trip report, to be written..) [10:43] seb128: pushing *compiz* 0.9.2.1 in the ubuntu-desktop ppa as my natty pbuilder is quite broken :) [10:43] ok [10:44] hi seb128 and didrocks [10:44] I'll push everything to natty once I confirmed it builds fine there [10:44] hey chrisccoulson [10:44] hey chrisccoulson, how are you? [10:45] seb128 - i'm not too bad thanks, how are you? [10:45] I'm fine thanks [10:52] I reset the WI tracker this morning, FYI [10:52] http://people.canonical.com/~pitti/workitems/natty/canonical-desktop-team.html [10:52] now we have a clean slate and trend line [10:59] heh, it looks like i need more work items! [10:59] chrisccoulson: 16 seems quite fine? [10:59] pitti - yeah, it looked smaller than some peoples ;) [11:00] pitti, gnome-desktop3 is in new [11:00] if you feel like doing some NEW source review [11:00] looking [11:02] seb128: 100_load_desired_settings.patch and 80_correct_rgba_use.patch aren't applied, is that on purpose? [11:03] pitti, bug #660417 [11:03] Launchpad bug 660417 in gnome-desktop (Ubuntu) "the load_desired_settings patch needs to be upstreamed and updated (affects: 1) (heat: 157)" [Low,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/660417 [11:03] ah, thanks [11:03] the other one was commented in maverick already [11:03] it's for gtk csd which we turned off again [11:04] tseliot didn't reply yet though [11:05] seb128: sorry, I'm kind of busy with a deadline [11:05] seb128: it's definitely on my todo list to have a look at it [11:05] seb128: accepted [11:05] tseliot, no worry [11:05] pitti, thanks! [11:07] seb128: https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/packagesselection-desktop-n-telepathy-indicator should be ready for your review, BTW [11:07] pitti, right, and https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/appdevs-desktop-n-gwibber-enhancements [11:07]